* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [CALL TO ORDER]
          [00:00:05]
          HELLO, EVERYBODY. 
          UH, WE ARE GOING TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER RIGHT AT 6:00 PM HOPE EVERYBODY'S HAVING A LOVELY TUESDAY. 
          I WANNA ASK THE CLERK TO TAKE THE ROLE. 
          COMMISSIONER BAUER HERE. 
          COMMISSIONER MCCARLEY? HERE. 
          COMMISSIONER KUSON. 
          HERE. 
          COMMISSIONER WIMAN. 
          HERE. 
          VICE MAYOR CATER THOMPSON. 
          HERE. 
          CHAIR HOOPER. 
          HERE WE HAVE A QUORUM. 
          WE 
          [GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT]
ARE NOW GOING TO MOVE INTO GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT. 
          DURING GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO MAKE COMMENTS ON ITEMS OF PUBLIC INTEREST THAT ARE WITHIN THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S SUBJECT MATTER JURISDICTION, AND THAT ARE NOT LISTED ON THE CURRENT AGENDA. 
          PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO UP TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON. 
          DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF PERSONS WISHING TO ADDRESS THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          TIME WILL BE ALLOCATED EQUAL SHARES TOTALING NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES WOULD NOW LIKE TO OPEN PUBLIC COMMENT AND ASK SPEAKERS TO BRING THEIR SPEAKER CARDS TO THE CLERK'S DESK IF THEY HAVE NOT ALREADY. 
          EXCELLENT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          GO RIGHT AHEAD. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, THIS IS KIND OF OFF THE CUFF. 
          MY NAME IS NICOLA FRY AND I'M A MEMBER OF THE SENIOR ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR THE CITY OF PETALUMA. 
          AND IN ADDITION, I'M NOW A MEMBER OF THE AD HOC MICRO TRANSIT COMMITTEE, WHICH IS PART OF THE TRANSIT ADVISORY COMMITTEE. 
          AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IS COMMUNICATION. 
          WE HAVE ALL THESE SEPARATE SILOS OF COMMITTEES AND COMMISSIONS THAT DON'T SEEM TO TALK TO EACH OTHER. 
          IT'S HARD TO FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON. 
          I READ EVERY AGENDA AND EVERY MINUTE FROM EVERY MEETING, UH, BUT I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON. 
          SOMETIMES THE MINUTES ARE THE KIND THAT DON'T REALLY GIVE YOU INFORMATION. 
          AND WHEN I SEE SOMETHING COMING UP ON AGENDA THAT LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAVE AN IMPACT ON SENIORS, WHICH IS A THIRD OF OUR POPULATION IN TOWN. 
          AND OUR DIRECTIVE AS A SENIOR ADVISORY COMMITTEE IS ANYTHING THAT IMPACTS SENIORS OR ACTIVE ADULTS? WELL, PERSONALLY, I THINK THAT'S PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY IN TOWN, EXCEPT FOR EVERYBODY UNDER THE AGE OF 12 MAYBE. 
          UM, AND IT'S HARD TO GET TO FIND THE RIGHT PERSON TO TALK TO ABOUT WHAT THAT EVENT OR WHAT THAT THING MIGHT BE THAT'S COMING UP ON THEIR COMMISSION. 
          I WAS REALLY FORTUNATE THAT I TALKED TO BLAKE ONE DAY ABOUT HANDICAP PARKING, SOMETHING THAT WE'RE ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN AS A SENIOR ADVISORY COMMITTEE. 
          AND HE WAS ABLE TO BRING IT UP DURING A, UM, PROGRAM THAT HAD TO DO WITH A NEW, UM, DEVELOPMENT. 
          AND WE WERE ABLE TO, HE WAS ABLE TO GET TWICE AS MANY HANDICAP PARKING SPOTS AS THEY WERE INITIALLY GOING TO PUT IN, EVEN THOUGH THEIR AMOUNT THEY WERE GONNA PUT IN WAS THE AMOUNT THAT THE STATE REQUIRED THEM TO PUT IN. 
          SO IT'S KIND OF A, A, A GREAT BONUS FOR US. 
          WE ALSO HAVE SOMEONE ON OUR COMMITTEE WHO'S WORKING ON THE, UM, PUBLIC RESTROOM ISSUE IN DOWNTOWN. 
          AND EVEN THOUGH HE'S BEEN TALKING TO VARIOUS PEOPLE ON CITY COUNCIL AND PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE CITY GOVERNMENT, WE'RE STILL HAVING DIFFICULTIES GETTING COMMUNICATION BACK FROM THE THINGS THAT, UM, THAT WE ARE INTERESTED IN. 
          PUTTING THOUGHTS INTO, IDEAS INTO, AND RECOGNIZING THAT IT AFFECTS SENIORS. 
          SO I WOULD LIKE YOU GUYS AT SOME POINT TO ADDRESS COMMUNICATION. 
          HOW DO WE, AS ALL THESE COMMITTEES AND COMMISSIONS TALK TO EACH OTHER? THAT'S IT. 
          WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          SEEING NO, NO ONE ELSE IN THE IN ATTENDANCE. 
          I WANTED TO ASK THE CLERK IF WE HAD ANY COMMENTS SENT TO US. 
          WE RECEIVED ONE GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT. 
          IT WAS POSTED ONLINE, AND IT'S ALSO AVAILABLE IN THE BACK IN THE DIOCESE. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          AND WITH THAT, WE WILL NOW MOVE TO OUR FIRST MEETING ITEM, WHICH IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES WILL BE THE MINUTES FROM OUR SEPTEMBER 12TH MEETING. 
          I WANNA INVITE ANY COMMISSIONERS FOR AMENDMENTS, IF THEY SPOTTED ANY. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, SEEING NO AMENDMENTS, I'D LIKE TO MOVE TO A ROLL CALL. 
          VOTE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES. 
          COMMISSIONER BAUER? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER MCCURLEY? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER KUSON? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER WIMAN? YES. 
          VICE MAYOR CATER THOMPSON? YES. 
          CHAIR HOOPER. 
          UH, ABSTAIN. 
          THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED. 
          EXCELLENT. 
          [00:05:02]
WITH THAT, AND WE'RE MOVING RIGHT ALONG. 
          WE'LL GET 
          [PRESENTATIONS]
INTO MEETING ITEM 
          [PUBLIC HEARINGS AND MATTERS FOR CONSIDERATION]
TWO, WHICH IS OUR PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP. 
          THIS IS A CONTINUATION FROM OUR WORKSHOP ON JULY 11TH, WHERE IF EVERYONE REMEMBERS THE POWER WENT OUT, AND, UH, WE DISCUSSED THE SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE RIGHT AFTER THE CAMERA CUT OUT AND THE RECORDING STOPPED. 
          SO I'M SORRY EVERYONE MISSED THAT. 
          UH, BUT FOR NOW, WE WILL GET BACK TO OUR PLANNING WORKSHOP. 
          AND WITH THAT, I WANTED TO INVITE OUR STAFF TO PRESENT. 
          AND ANDREW, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          GREAT. 
          EXCUSE ME. 
          THANK YOU, CHAIR. 
          AND, UH, GOOD EVENING. 
          MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. 
          IT APPEARS THAT, UH, WHEN THE MEETING STARTED, I HAD MY, UM, ZOOM LINK, BUT, UH, IT'S DISAPPEARED. 
          SO LET ME REJOIN THE WEBINAR. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          IT LOOKS LIKE I CAN, UM, OBSERVE MYSELF THAT THE, UH, PRESENTATION IS BEING DISPLAYED. 
          SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED. 
          UH, THANK YOU, UH, AGAIN FOR YOUR PATIENCE. 
          AND, UM, IT'S GREAT TO BE BACK AGAIN. 
          I, I FELT LIKE WE WERE JUST REALLY GETTING INTO A GOOD CONVERSATION THE LAST, UH, SESSION WHEN WE WERE INTERRUPTED BY THE POWER OUTAGE. 
          SO I'M GLAD THAT WE'RE ALL HERE AGAIN TODAY. 
          AGAIN, THIS IS A WORKSHOP ABOUT THE RULES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          UM, WE DO BOTH DYLAN AND I WILL BE, UM, PRESENTING INFORMATION THIS EVENING, BUT WE DO WANT IT TO BE A, UH, A CONVERSATION WITH YOU, UM, TO, TO UNPACK SOME QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO, UM, HAVE SOME COMMENT FROM YOU ON, ON, UH, SOME OF THE CONTENTS THAT WE PRESENT, BUT THEN ALSO TO IDENTIFY SOME FUTURE TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION IN PARTICULAR, ONE OF THOSE TOPICS WOULD BE A QUA WORKSHOP. 
          AND SO WE'LL WANNA DO A BIT OF A DRILL DOWN THERE TO UNDERSTAND, UM, HOW WE CAN DEVELOP THAT WORKSHOP. 
          GIVEN THAT, YOU KNOW, C Q A IS REALLY AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO, UH, TO CREATE A WORKSHOP THAT'S MEANINGFUL FOR YOU. 
          SO AT ANY POINT IN TIME, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, UM, FEEL FREE TO, YOU KNOW, RAISE YOUR HAND AND WE'LL PAUSE AND RESPOND TO A QUESTION OR COMMENT. 
          UM, AND, UH, WE'LL JUST, UH, MAKE THIS A REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION AND A GREAT LEARNING OPPORTUNITY FOR BOTH US AND THEN FOR THE PUBLIC AS WELL, WHO MIGHT BE PARTICIPATING. 
          SO THE GOALS OF THIS EVENING ARE TO INTRODUCE PLANNING'S LEGAL FRAMEWORK, BECAUSE REALLY SO MUCH OF WHAT WE DO AS PLANNING IS, UH, IS BASED IN, IS ENTIRELY BASED IN LAW, WHETHER THAT'S THE US CONSTITUTION, TO STATE REGULATIONS, OR TO LOCAL REGULATIONS THAT WE'VE ADOPTED THROUGH LEGISLATIVE ACTION BY THE, UH, THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          THEN TO EXPLORE PUBLIC PLANNING IN PETALUMA, BECAUSE PUBLIC PLANNING IS, IS IS A CATEGORY OF LAND USE PLANNING, RIGHT? WE, WE HAVE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF PLANNING. 
          WE HAVE PRIVATE SECTOR PLANNING WHERE PLANNERS ARE WORKING WITH, UH, DEVELOPMENT TEAMS. WE HAVE ADVOCACY PLANNER, OFTENTIMES THROUGH OUR NONPROFIT GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATIONS. 
          AND THEN WE HAVE PUBLIC PLANNING. 
          AND, AND THE CHARGE AS PUBLIC PLANNERS IS TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE A CONSISTENT OBJECTIVE, FAIR AND TRANSPARENT PROCESS FOR APPLICATIONS THAT ARE BROUGHT BEFORE THE CITY. 
          SO THAT IS A, IS A, UM, DIFFERENT TYPE OF PLANNING THAT WE ENGAGE IN HERE AS PLANNERS FOR THE CITY OF PETALUMA. 
          THEN, UH, TO DELVE INTO THE COMMISSION'S ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES. 
          AND THEN, OF COURSE, AS I SUGGESTED, IDENTIFY FUTURE WORKSHOP TOPICS AS NEEDED. 
          UM, THE RESOURCE WE DO WANT TO PRESENT TO YOU IS THE INSTITUTE FOR LOCAL GOVERN GOVERNMENTS, UM, PLANNING COMMISSIONER HANDBOOK. 
          IT'S A GREAT COMPENDIUM. 
          I PASSED OUT. 
          UH, I'VE SHARED A COUPLE OF MINE THAT I HAD THIS EVENING. 
          WE CAN GET HARD PRINT COPIES IF YOU WOULD LIKE THEM. 
          WE MADE A COUPLE OF COPIES KNOWING THAT SOME OF YOU PREFER DIGITAL DOCUMENTS, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY PRINT MORE IF YOU WOULD LIKE AND, AND, UH, MAKE THOSE AVAILABLE TO YOU. 
          BUT IT'S, IT'S A REALLY COMPREHENSIVE HANDBOOK THAT ADDRESSES THE COMMISSION'S ROLE, HOUSING, LAW, AND POLICY, UH, FISCAL ISSUES, LEGAL ISSUES, 
          [00:10:01]
THEN DELVES INTO PLANNING AND BASICS AND HOW TO ENGAGE YOUR COMMUNITY. 
          UH, ANOTHER COUPLE OF RESOURCES THAT WE RECOMMEND ARE THE PLANNER'S WEB AND, UH, THE PLANNER'S WEB IS A BIT DATED, BUT THERE'S REALLY TRULY SOME TIMELESS ARTICLES ON THAT SITE. 
          UM, THE PLANNER'S WEB GREW OUT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S JOURNAL, UH, WHICH WAS PUBLISHED, I BELIEVE, FROM 1991 THROUGH 2014 WHEN THE, UM, WHEN THEY ENDED PUBLICATION OF THE JOURNAL, THEY CONTINUED TO PUBLISH TO THE PLANNER'S WEB. 
          SO THERE'S SOME REALLY GREAT RESOURCES THERE. 
          AND THEN ANOTHER, UH, SOURCE RESOURCE THAT I REALLY LIKE IS, UH, THE LEAGUE OF CALIFORNIA CITIES, OR CAL CITIES.ORG. 
          THEY HAVE SOME REALLY GREAT RESOURCES, ESPECIALLY, UH, WHITE PAPERS ON LEGAL TOPICS AS WELL AS, UM, THEY, THEY DO A REALLY GREAT JOB OF UNPACKING, UH, VARIOUS POLICIES AND SUCH, AND PRESENTING THEM IN A WAY THAT I THINK, UH, WHERE THE INFORMATION IS, IS, UH, QUITE ACCESSIBLE. 
          SO FIRST WE WANNA TOUCH ON THE ENABLING LEGISLATION, WHICH IS, UH, LOCAL LEGISLATION ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL THAT ESTABLISHES OR ENABLES THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          SOME OF THIS WILL BE REPEAT, BUT I KIND OF WANTED TO JUST COME BACK INTO IT TO WARM US UP AND, AND, UH, A REFRESH NEVER HURTS. 
          SO, OF COURSE, WE HAVE, UM, ONE COUNCIL MEMBER WHO IS OUR LIAISON TO THE COUNCIL. 
          AND, UM, THEN SIX CITIZEN REPRESENTATIVES WHO ARE APPOINTED BY COUNCIL. 
          AND, UM, THEN I'M GOING TO ASK DYLAN TO TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT POLICE POWERS AND HOW, UH, THE GRANTING OF POLICE POWERS TO THE CITY ALLOWS US TO, TO, UH, TAKE CERTAIN ACTIONS. 
          SURE, OF COURSE, ANDREW AND HIGH PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          SO THE 10TH AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION ESSENTIALLY SAYS, WHAT'S NOT ENUMERATED TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS RESERVED FOR THE STATE AND THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE. 
          SO THOSE POWERS THEN GO TO CALIFORNIA, CALIFORNIA. 
          IT'S ARTICLE 11, SECTION SEVEN, WHICH ESSENTIALLY SAYS, WHICH POWERS ARE NOT GRANTED TO THE STATE ARE THEN GRANTED TO THE CITIES. 
          SO THAT'S WHERE THE CITY GETS ITS POLICE POWERS. 
          AND POLICE POWERS IS ESSENTIALLY THE CITY'S ABILITY TO REGULATE HEALTH, SAFETY, UH, ECONOMIC GENERAL WELFARE FOR ITS CITIZENS. 
          SO IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION CONTEXT, THAT'S WHERE ALL THE GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENTS, ZONING, AMENDMENTS, UH, WARRANTS, ENTITLEMENTS. 
          THAT'S THESE CITY'S ABILITY TO MAKE THOSE RULES, MAKE THOSE FINDINGS AND ENFORCE. 
          UM, AND ALSO WE, OUR POLICE POWERS ARE LIMITED BY SOME FEDERAL AMENDMENTS. 
          YOU HAVE THE FIRST AMENDMENT, WHICH IT PROHIBITS, UH, LET'S SAY OUR SIGN ORDINANCE. 
          OUR SIGN ORDINANCE NEEDS TO COMPLY WITH THE FIRST AMENDMENT. 
          UH, IT REGULATES HOW WE, UH, WHERE CHURCHES ARE LOCATED, HOW THE CITY ADDRESSES CHURCHES IN THE ZONING CONTEXT. 
          WHAT ELSE? UH, WE CAN'T PROHIBIT IT, UH, NEW DANCING. 
          'CAUSE NEW DANCING IS ALLOWED, UH, UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT. 
          SO OUR ZONING CODE, WE CAN'T OUTRIGHT BAN IT. 
          SO WE ARE LIMITED BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT. 
          OTHER LIMITATIONS, THE FIFTH AMENDMENT, THAT'S THE TAKINGS CLAUSE. 
          AND I THINK WE TALK ABOUT TAKINGS A LITTLE LATER. 
          UM, AND THEN 14TH AMENDMENT, THAT'S EQUAL PROTECTION AND DUE PROCESS. 
          AND I THINK WE ALSO TALK ABOUT DUE PROCESS LATER. 
          SO, ANDREW, ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANTED ME TO ADDRESS THERE? NO, I THINK THAT WAS GREAT. 
          THANK YOU, DYLAN. 
          UM, THAT THE FINDING ABOUT, UH, THERE'S NO DETRIMENTAL IMPACT TO PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, OR WELFARE SHOULD BE FAIRLY FAMILIAR WITH YOU BECAUSE IT IS A, OR FAMILIAR TO YOU BECAUSE IT IS A FINDING THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO MAKE WITH EVERY DISCRETIONARY DECISION THAT YOU MAKE. 
          SO THAT'S SORT OF THAT AGAIN, WHERE WE, WE FIND THAT PLANNING IS REALLY BASED IN FEDERAL AND STATE LAW. 
          UM, AND SO WE'RE SEEKING TO IMPLEMENT THAT THROUGH THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCESS. 
          SO, BRIEF, UH, REVISIT OF PROPERTY RIGHTS. 
          I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THIS, BUT THE, UH, THE, THE CONCEPT OF THE BUNDLE OF PROPERTY RIGHTS, AND THAT'S THE RIGHTS THAT A, A PROPERTY OWNER HAS, UM, TO, TO OWN THE PROPERTY, TO SELL IT OR OTHERWISE TRANSFER IT THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THROUGH A WILL, UM, OR STATE OR GIFTING AND THE RIGHT TO USE THE PROPERTY. 
          AND THAT INCLUDES DEVELOPING THE PROPERTY AS WELL AS SOMETIMES WHAT WE CONSIDER IS WHEN THE RIGHT TO USE THE PROPERTY MAY COME IN CONFLICT WITH ANOTHER'S RIGHT TO ENJOY THE PROPERTY. 
          AND SO WE THINK ABOUT THAT AS WELL. 
          AND THEN ALSO THE RIGHT TO EXCLUDE IN THE SENSE THAT IT IS PRIVATE PROPERTY AND YOU CAN'T EXCLUDE INDIVIDUALS FROM COMING ONTO YOUR PROPERTY. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          I WAS GONNA TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT VESTED RIGHTS HERE. 
          'CAUSE PART OF YOUR DECISION MAKING IT, UH, ALLOWS THE APPLICANTS TO GAIN, UH, ADDITIONAL RIGHTS THAT AREN'T INCLUDED HERE. 
          SO WHEN A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT'S GRANTED, THEY 
          [00:15:01]
MAY HAVE A VESTED RIGHT TO CONTINUE THAT, UH, USE UNTIL THE CITY REVOKES IT, UH, THROUGH SOME DUE PROCESS, WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT LATER. 
          SO, WHEN THE CITY GRANTS LIKE A SPAR APPLICATION, UH, THAT DOES INVEST THE PROPERTY, THE CITY IS ABLE TO ENACT, UH, ADDITIONAL LEGISLATION. 
          SO LET'S SAY, UH, TWO YEARS AGO, A SPAR APPLICANT CAME TO THE CITY, GOT APPROVED BY PLANNING COMMISSION, SUBSEQUENT THEN THE CITY IN N ITS ALL ELECTRIC ORDINANCE. 
          WELL, UNTIL THAT PROPERTY, UH, VEST, THEY NEED TO COMPLY WITH THE ALL ELECTRIC ORDINANCE OR ANY OTHER SUBSEQUENT, UH, ORDINANCES. 
          SO HOW A PROPERTY VEST, UH, THERE'S CASE LAW, WE CALL IT ACO VESTING, THEN ACO IS THE NAME OF THE CASE. 
          BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY A PERMIT, WHICH COULD BE A BUILDING PERMIT, IT COULD BE THE SPAR PERMIT, UH, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, AND THEN SOME SUBSTANTIAL RELIANCE ON THAT PERMIT, WHICH USUALLY CONSISTS OF HARD COSTS. 
          SO THEM, UH, HIRING A CONTRACTOR, THE CONTRACTOR, YOU KNOW, OUT THERE NAILING A COUPLE, UH, WALLS TOGETHER. 
          THE OTHER FORMS OF VESTING IS A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY. 
          I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT, BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST, BUT NOT IN MY TIME. 
          UH, VESTING TENTATIVE MAPS. 
          SO VESTING, TENTATIVE MAPS ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS TENTATIVE MAPS, EXCEPT WITH THAT WORD VESTING. 
          SO I DON'T KNOW WHY A DEVELOPER WOULD EVER NOT DO A VESTING TENTATIVE MAP, BUT WHEN THE VESTING TENTATIVE MAP GETS APPROVED, THAT VEST THEIR RIGHTS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO COMPLY WITH ANY ADDITIONAL NEW LEGISLATION. 
          AND THEN JUST WITH THE STATE NEW HOUSING LAWS, SSB 35, SB THREE 30, THAT KIND OF LOCKS THEM INTO WHAT RULES APPLY, UH, WHEN THEY GET SUBMIT A APPLICATION TO THE CITY. 
          GREAT. 
          THANKS. 
          AND, AND I THINK THAT THE CONCEPT OF VESTING IS IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY IN LAND DEVELOPMENT, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, AS, AS THOSE OF YOU ON THE, ON THE COMMISSION WHO ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT DEVELOPERS WANT IS CERTAINTY. 
          AND SO THEY WANT TO KNOW IS THEY DESIGN A PROJECT, ESPECIALLY A MULTI-YEAR PROJECT, THAT THEY CAN COUNT ON CERTAIN REGULATIONS BEING CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT THE LIFE OF THE PROJECT UNTIL, YOU KNOW, IT'S DEVELOPED. 
          AND SO THE VESTING OF RIGHTS IS VERY IMPORTANT, BUT IT ALSO HAS THE EFFECT OF MODIFYING THAT RIGHT TO USE THE PROPERTY. 
          SO ONCE A, ONCE RIGHTS GRANTED THROUGH A QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCESSOR VESTED, THEN YOU'VE MODIFIED THAT BUNDLE OF, OF PROPERTY RIGHTS THAT IS INHERENT TO THAT PROPERTY. 
          AND SO TO UNWIND THAT BUNDLE, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS TO REMOVE THOSE RIGHTS AS THROUGH WHICH THEY WERE GRANTED. 
          SO WE SEE THAT THEN HOW DO WE DELIVER THOSE RIGHTS? UM, IS A GREAT QUESTION THEN WHY WE DO IT THROUGH ZONING. 
          UM, AND, AND THROUGH THE ESTABLISHMENT OF OUR, A SET OF COMPREHENSIVE LOCAL LAND USE OF REGULATIONS. 
          SO ZONING ORIGINATED IN THE STANDARD ZONING ENABLING ACT, UM, WHICH WAS, UM, I GUESS ADOPTED BY DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE OR, OR PROPOSED BY DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE IN 1926. 
          AND THE FIRST THING IT REALLY DID WAS IT SOUGHT TO MINIMIZE CONFLICTING USES OF PROPERTY. 
          SO PRIOR TO THAT, YOU KNOW, UNREGULATED LAND DEVELOPMENT, YOU MAY HAVE HAD AN INDUSTRIAL USE ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL USES. 
          AND OF COURSE, YOU HAVE ISSUES OF, YOU KNOW, TOXIC FUMES AND NOISE AND POLLUTION AND OTHER FACTORS THAT ARE DETRIMENTAL TO, UM, TO PEOPLE LIVING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY. 
          SO THE ZONING, THE THE IDEA OF ZONING REALLY GREW OUT OF THE SEGREGATION OF LAND USES TO LOCATE THOSE RESIDENTIAL USES AWAY FROM INDUSTRIAL USES. 
          AND WHICH TODAY, NOW WE WRESTLE WITH THROUGH THE MIXED USE, RIGHT? SO NOW WE'RE TRYING TO BRING THOSE USES BACK TOGETHER IN SOME REGARDS BECAUSE WE REALIZED THAT THAT SEGREGATION OF LAND USE HAS RESULTED IN SOME CASES IN AUTO DEPENDENT COMMUNITIES, BUT IN OTHER CASES REALLY LIMITING ACCESS TO, UM, TO COMMERCIAL GOODS AND SERVICES. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK AS, AS, UH, BY WAY OF THAT EXAMPLE, WE POINT OUT THAT PLANNING EVOLVES. 
          I MEAN, AND, AND, UH, SOMETIMES WE'RE EVOLVING TO BETTER, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IN THE CASE PERHAPS OF, OF, YOU KNOW, SPRAWL INDUCED OR SUBDIVISION INDUCING SPRAWL, WE WERE MAYBE DEVOLVING INTO A FORM THAT WASN'T PREFERABLE. 
          BUT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ALWAYS COME BACK AND THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE ACTION CHANGE THOSE REGULATIONS WHEN WE WANT A DIFFERENT FORM OF LAND DEVELOPMENT OR DEVELOPMENT OF OUR COMMUNITIES. 
          BUT THEN WE ALSO SEE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, THE LOCAL LAND USE REGULATIONS CAN BE USED TO ENCOURAGE GROWTH, OR THEY CAN BE USED TO DISCOURAGE GROWTH. 
          [00:20:01]
SO WHEN WE LOOK AT AND THINK ABOUT OUR DENSITY POLICIES AND HOW THOSE DENSITY POLICIES COULD CONTRIBUTE TO, YOU KNOW, HOUSING DEVELOPMENT OR DISCOURAGED HOUSING DEVELOPMENT, I THINK A GREAT EXAMPLE WE HAVE LOCALLY IS THE URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARY, RIGHT? THAT, UH, IS, IS A LANDMARK, UH, LAND USE TOOL FOR LIMITING GROWTH. 
          AND THEN FINALLY, UM, IS THE IDEA THAT THROUGH ZONING, THROUGH, THROUGH ESTABLISHING CERTAIN PROPERTY RIGHTS, WE CAN ALSO CREATE ECONOMIC BENEFITS. 
          NOT JUST ECONOMIC DE BENEFITS FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, BUT ALSO FOR THE COMMUNITY IN THE FORM OF TAX REVENUES OF DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES. 
          BUT THEN IN THE CASE OF THE PROPERTY OWNER, THE INCREASING PROPERTY VALUE, UH, BASED UPON THE LAND USES THAT ARE ALLOWED. 
          SO THEN A, A QUICK STOP TO, TO ASK THE QUESTION, WELL, WHAT IS PLANNING? YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE DO ALL THIS AND IF THERE'S A LEGAL BASIS FOR IT, THEN HOW DO WE DO IT? WELL, WE DO IT THROUGH, THROUGH THE, UH, ESTABLISHMENT OF GOALS AND POLICIES IN ORDER TO DIRECT AND MANAGE LAND USE AND DEVELOPMENT IN OUR COMMUNITIES. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT ALL PLANNING IS LOCAL, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING AT THE LOCAL LEVEL IS MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT HOW YOU WANT TO, TO BE AS A COMMUNITY. 
          AND THROUGH THAT, WE SEEK TO ADDRESS FUNDAMENTAL COMMUNITY ISSUES. 
          SO AS THE, UH, GENERAL PLAN UPDATE COMES FORWARD, YOU'LL BE ASKED TO REVIEW CHAPTERS OR ELEMENTS OF THE GENERAL PLAN RELATED TO, UM, HAZARD MITIGATION, NATURAL RESOURCE ALLOCATION, AND SO FORTH. 
          YOU'VE ALREADY REVIEWED THE HOUSING ELEMENT, WHICH IS ONE OF THOSE ELEMENTS. 
          AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS THAT FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE OF HOUSING SCARCITY AND HOUSING COST THROUGH OUR GENERAL PLANNING PROCESS THAT WILL THEN GET CODIFIED AND ALSO TO ACCOUNT FOR FUTURE DEMANDS FOR SERVICES. 
          SO IN THAT PROCESS OF THINKING ABOUT AND OF DETERMINING LAND USE PREFERENCES, WE ALSO ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S ACCESS TO SEWERS, TO ROADS, TO WATER, TO FIRE PROTECTION AND SO FORTH. 
          SO, SO THOSE, UM, THOSE NE NECESSARY SERVICES ARE ESSENTIAL. 
          BUT THEN WE KNOW THAT OUR, THE DECISIONS THAT WE DO MAKE THEN IMPACT PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE ACCESS TO RESOURCES. 
          AND IN SOME CASES THEY CAN EXACERBATE ECONOMIC AND RACIAL INEQUALITIES. 
          UM, I THINK, UH, WAS THE COLOR OF LAW IS A BOOK THAT CAME OUT RECENTLY THAT'S A REALLY GREAT, UM, UM, ACCOUNTING OF SOME OF THE IMPACTS OF REDLINING AND THE RACIAL INEQUALITIES INEQUALITIES THAT, UH, WERE THE RESULT OF PLANNING AND LAND USE DECISIONS THAT WERE MADE, ESPECIALLY IN, IN THE 20TH CENTURY. 
          AND SO THEN, UH, SO WE THINK ABOUT POLICY AND WE THINK ABOUT LAW. 
          WE HAVE OUR POLICY DOCUMENTS AND, AND YOU ALL ARE FAMILIAR WITH, OF COURSE, THE GENERAL PLAN. 
          UH, WE RECENTLY REVIEWED OYSTER COVE UNDER THE, THE AMENDED SMART CODE OF 2013 THAT ALSO INCLUDED THE PETALUMA RIVER ACCESS AND ENHANCEMENT PLAN. 
          WE'VE REVIEWED PROJECTS THROUGH THE IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE AND SO FORTH. 
          SO A VARIETY OF DOCUMENTS THAT ESTABLISH THE POLICIES THAT WE CONSIDER, AND THEN THE REGULATIONS THAT WE ENFORCE. 
          AND THERE ARE, UM, TWO DIFFERENT, UH, TYPES, SO THAT WE WANT TO THINK ABOUT. 
          HEY, ANDREW, SORRY TO INTERRUPT THERE TOO. 
          UH, IF YOU COULD GO BACK TO THE LAST SLIDE, I DID WANT TO BRING UP THE IDEA OF OUR LAND USE HIERARCHY. 
          AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT ANDREW WAS TALKING ABOUT. 
          SO AT THE VERY TOP OF THE PYRAMID, YOU HAVE THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION LAWS, THEN THE STATE CONSTITUTION LAWS, THEN YOU GET DOWN TO THE CITY, AND THAT'S WHERE YOU GET THE GENERAL PLANS NEXT, AND MAYBE A SPECIFIC PLAN UNDERNEATH THAT. 
          THEN OUR ZONING CODE, AND THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY IN OUR ZONING CODE FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, WARRANTS, VARIANCES, AND THEN YOU MIGHT GET DOWN TO SUBDIVISION MAPS AND THEN BUILDING, UH, PERMITS. 
          I THINK THAT'S KIND OF THE HIERARCHY AS I SEE IT. 
          AND BETWEEN THEM, YOU DEFINITELY WANT HORIZONTAL CONSISTENCY SO THAT THE GENERAL PLAN DOESN'T CONFLICT WITH OUR ZONING MA UH, CODE. 
          AND YOU ALSO WANT VERTICAL OR HORIZONTAL CONSISTENCY BETWEEN THEM. 
          SO YOU DON'T HAVE TWO SECTIONS OF THE ZONING CODE THAT COMPLETELY CONFLICT EACH OTHER AS WELL. 
          GREAT. 
          THANKS, DYLAN. 
          HOW ARE WE DOING SO FAR? QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, GO BACK AND REVISIT ANYTHING. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          SURE. 
          I WILL SAY, I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT TO GET THE HIERARCHY OF LAND USE IN A CHART TO REFERENCE FOR LATER. 
          OKAY, SURE. 
          JUST, YEAH, 'CAUSE A LOT OF THIS MADE SENSE ON THE FACE OF IT, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE FOR MOST OF US, ONCE YOU GET BELOW ZONING CODE, IT'D BE GREAT TO HAVE THAT SPELLED OUT A LITTLE MORE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND YOU'LL SEE WHAT THE RESOLUTIONS TO THAT IS. 
          A GOOD POINT IS, AS THE GENERAL PLAN IS THE HIGHEST OF THE HIERARCHY FOR OUR LOCAL PLANS, EVERY ZONING CODE DECISION THAT WE MAKE NEEDS TO COMPLY WITH THEIR CONFORM TO THE GENERAL PLAN. 
          SO THAT'S ALWAYS 
          [00:25:01]
A FINDING. 
          YOU'LL SEE IN THE RESOLUTIONS FOR SPAR ENTITLEMENTS, OUR PLANNING COMMISSION ZONING AMENDMENTS, THEY ALWAYS SAY, AND THIS CONFORMS WITH THESE SECTIONS OF THE GENERAL PLAN. 
          SO THEN IN, IN THIS SLIDE, WE'RE LOOKING AT SORT OF THE TRANSITION FROM POLICY TO LAW. 
          SO WITH REGARD TO HILLSIDE DEVELOPMENT, WE HAVE, UM, THE GOAL OF PRESERVING OUR HILLSIDES AND RIDGE LINES THAT'S ESTABLISHED IN THE GENERAL PLAN. 
          AND THEN WE HAVE A POLICY TO ALLOW DEVELOPMENT, BUT THEN WE WANT THAT DEVELOPMENT TO HAVE CERTAIN CHARACTERISTICS. 
          SO AS WE TAKE THAT, AND THIS WILL BE A PROCESS THAT, THAT WE'LL GO THROUGH WITH THE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE, UH, THAT WILL ACTUALLY START THE, THE CODIFICATION OF THE GENERAL PLAN. 
          THE UPDATE TO THE IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE WILL ACTUALLY BEGIN AS THE GENERAL PLAN STARTS TO GO THROUGH ITS FINAL REVIEW, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO TAKE CERTAIN POLICIES AND THEN CONVERT THEM INTO REGULATIONS IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THE GOALS OF THOSE POLICIES. 
          SO IN THE CASE OF, OF, UM, THE GENERAL PLAN GOAL OF PRESERVING HILLSIDES AND RIDGE LINES, WE SEE THAT THAT THEN TRANSLATES INTO CHAPTER 16 HILLSIDE PROTECTIONS IN THE I C O WHERE IT'S VERY EXPLICIT ABOUT WHAT CAN AND CAN'T BE DONE IN, IN, UH, WITHIN HILLSIDE CONDITIONS. 
          AND THEN THOSE ARE, ARE WHAT INFORM THE PLANNING REVIEW AND WHAT INFORM THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS THAT YOU UNDERTAKE. 
          SO CONSISTENCY AND COMPLIANCE THOUGH, WHEN WE, WHEN WE ARE, AND YOU'LL NOTICE THIS WHEN YOU START TO LOOK AT THE STAFF REPORTS AND THE FINDINGS, WE'LL TALK ABOUT A PROJECT IS CONSISTENT WITH GENERAL PLAN POLICIES, OR A PROJECT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE CENTRAL PETALUMA SPECIFIC PLAN POLICY RELATED TO, UM, RIVER RIVERFRONT DEVELOPMENT. 
          BUT THEN WHEN WE REACH OVER AND WE START TO GO OVER TO ADOPTED REGULATIONS, WE CHANGE OUR LANGUAGE AND WE START TO TALK ABOUT COMPLIANCE. 
          BECAUSE CONSISTENCY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FIND CONSISTENCY WITH EVERY GOAL AND POLICY, YOU JUST HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT IT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE VISION AND INTENT OF THE POLICY DOCUMENT. 
          BUT WHEN WE MOVE OVER THEN TO THE ADOPTED REGULATIONS IN THE FORM OF THE I Z O OR THE SMART CODE, THEN WE HAVE TO FIND THAT A PROJECT COMPLIES WITH THEM. 
          SO WE START TO, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT AS A FUNNEL, EVERYTHING STARTS TO NARROW DOWN AND GAIN SPECIFICITY AND ACCURACY AS WE MOVE TOWARDS EITHER EXPANDING OR RESTRICTING THAT BUNDLE OF RIGHTS THROUGH THE DISCRETIONARY REVIEW PROCESS. 
          AND SO WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THAT, THAT'S WHY WE REFER TO YOUR ROLE AS A QUASI-JUDICIAL, UH, REVIEW AUTHORITY BECAUSE YOU'RE ACTING IN A QUASI-JUDICIAL MANNER AND MAKING A DECISION BASED UPON JUDGMENT THAT DELIVERS OR, OR REDUCES THE PROPERTY RIGHTS FOR A A PROPERTY OWNER. 
          SO WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT GEARS A BIT, IF THAT'S SORT OF THE LEGAL BASIS, THE LEGAL UNDERPINNING OF WHAT WE DO. 
          WE WANNA SHIFT GEARS A BIT THEN AND THINK ABOUT HOW WE DO IT. 
          UM, AND THINK ABOUT THAT, THAT PUBLIC PLANNING THAT WE ENGAGE IN HERE AT THE CITY, KNOWING THAT WE'RE OFTENTIMES, UH, THROUGH THE APPLICATION PROCESS AND THROUGH THE PLANNING REVIEW PROCESS, INTERACTING WITH PLANNERS WHO ARE PERFORMING IN OTHER ROLES. 
          SO IF YOU RECALL OYSTER COVE, UM, WELL, OYSTER COVE MIGHT'VE BEEN A WHILE AGO. 
          IT WAS RECENT FOR ME BECAUSE IT WENT TO CITY COUNCIL JUST, UH, JUST LAST WEEK. 
          BUT, UH, IN MAYBERRY LONG WITH URBAN DESIGN ASSOCIATES WHO WAS ON THE APPLICANT TEAM, HE WAS REALLY PERFORMING THAT PRIVATE SECTOR PLANNING ROLE, THAT DEVELOPMENT ROLE SUPPORTING THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM. 
          HE'S STILL A PLANNER. 
          HE'S ALSO AN URBAN DESIGNER, BUT, BUT HE WAS PERFORMING THAT PLANNING ROLE IN, IN OTHER INSTANCES, UH, YOU KNOW, WE MAY HAVE PLANNERS WHO ARE WORKING AS ADVOCATES ON BEHALF OF A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION. 
          SO A SPUR, WHICH IS A POLICY TEAM BASED IN OAKLAND AND, AND VERY ACTIVE IN THE BAY AREA. 
          THEIR, THEIR ENTIRE TEAM, VIRTUALLY THEIR ENTIRE TEAM ARE PLANNERS, BUT THEY'RE WORKING WITHIN THE POLICY SPHERE TO ADVOCATE FOR CERTAIN POLICIES RELATED TO EQUITY TO, UH, INTENSIFICATION OF DEVELOPMENT AND SO FORTH. 
          SO AGAIN, HERE AT THE CITY OF PETALUMA, OUR ROLE AS PUBLIC PLANNERS THEN IS TO ENGAGE IN COUNTER PLANNING SERVICES, PROVIDE THOSE, THOSE, UH, COMMUNITY-WIDE CUSTOMER SERVICES FROM A, A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL OWNER WHO WANTS TO CONSTRUCT A FENCE TO, UH, THE REDEVELOPMENT OF, YOU KNOW, A MULTI ACRE SITE, UM, IN OR ADJACENT TO THE DOWNTOWN AREA. 
          SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY FLEXING BACK AND FORTH THROUGH OUR COUNTER PLANNING SERVICES TO EDUCATE AND TO INFORM 
          [00:30:01]
WHOEVER COMES TO THE COUNTER OR ASK THOSE QUESTIONS, UH, RELATED TO, TO MOSTLY RELATED TO OUR REGULATIONS AND COMPLIANCE. 
          UM, NOT SO MUCH TO, UH, YOU KNOW, GENERAL PLAN OR, OR, UH, THE OTHER FORMS OF POLICY DOCUMENTS. 
          AND THEN THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW PLANNING ACTIVITIES, WHICH YOU'RE MOST FAMILIAR WITH. 
          WE PROVIDE THE PRE-APPLICATION SERVICES WE RECEIVE AND PROCESS APPLICATIONS FOR LAND DEVELOPMENT, UH, CONDUCT THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW AND THEN, OF COURSE, SUPPORT. 
          YOU SUPPORT H C P C, UM, THE PUBLIC ART COMMITTEE, AS WELL AS, UM, PARTICIPATE AND PLAY A ROLE IN SUPPORTING TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, UH, PBAC AND SO FORTH. 
          AND THEN FINALLY, FROM THE POLICY PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, UH, WE DO HAVE STAFF WHO ARE WORKING ON POLICY DOCUMENTS, THE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE, THE TREE ORDINANCE UPDATE. 
          UM, WE'RE, WE'RE WORKING THROUGH SOME ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS AND SO FORTH. 
          SO PROVIDING THAT FULL RANGE OF, UM, PUBLIC PLANNING SERVICES THAT, UH, KEEP THE CITY RUNNING FROM A LAND DEVELOPMENT AND LAND USE PERSPECTIVE. 
          AND SO THEN YOUR ACTIVITIES, I'VE, I'VE MENTIONED, UM, YOUR QUASI-JUDICIAL ROLES, YOU ALSO HAVE WHAT WE CALL A QUASI LEGISLATIVE ROLE IN THAT YOU REVIEW AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT PLANNING RELATED LEGISLATIVE ACTIONS. 
          SO THE LEGISLATIVE BODY, THE ONLY, THE ONLY BODY WHO CAN LEGISLATE OR CREATE LAW WITHIN THE CITY IS THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          BUT IN YOUR QUASI LEGISLATIVE ROLE, AND PURSUANT TO YOUR ENABLING LEGISLATION, YOU ARE THE ENTITY THAT MAKES RECOMMENDATIONS TO, UH, THE CITY COUNCIL ON CERTAIN LAND USE RELATED ACTIONS. 
          BUT THEN YOUR PRIMARY ROLE THAT OF YOUR QUASI-JUDICIAL ROLE IS TO PROVIDE THAT DISCRETIONARY REVIEW, UH, LOOKING FOR CONSISTENCY WITH POLICIES AND COMPLIANCE WITH REGULATIONS AS YOU CONSIDER EITHER EXPANDING OR CONTRACTING THE, THE, UM, ALLOWABLE RIGHTS THAT A PROPERTY OWNER MIGHT HAVE, UH, TO DEVELOP TO ENGAGE IN LAND DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY. 
          BUT THEN YOU ALSO HAVE A QUASI-JUDICIAL ROLE AS AN APPELLATE BODY FOR ADMINISTRATIVE DECISIONS. 
          SO WE DO HAVE A VARIETY OF DECISIONS WHERE, UH, AT THE DIRECTOR LEVEL THAT IF THE, IF THE APPLICANT DISAGREES WITH THE DECISION OR IF THE, UH, COMMUNITY DISAGREES WITH THE DECISION, THEY CAN APPEAL THAT DECISION THAT IS PART OF THEIR DUE PROCESS THAT DYLAN'S GOING TO TALK ABOUT HERE SHORTLY. 
          AND, AND THEY CAN APPEAL THAT TO YOU. 
          AND THEN IN THAT ROLE, YOU BECOME THE APPELLANT BODY. 
          UM, THEN GO AHEAD. 
          OH, ANDREW, I WAS JUST GONNA GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN QUASI LEGISLATIVE AND QUASI-JUDICIAL. 
          AND IT IS SPELLED OUT THERE, BUT I FIGURE JUST AS A RECENT EXAMPLE, QUASI LEGISLATIVE, THAT WAS LAST YEAR WHEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL AMENDED THE ZONING CODE TO REQUIRE ANY BOX STORE GREATER THAN 25,000 SQUARE FEET TO REQUIRE A C U P. 
          THAT WAS A LEGISLATIVE DECISION. 
          BUT WHEN A QUASI-JUDICIAL WOULD BE AN APPLICANT LIKE SAFEWAY, THEN COMING BACK BEFORE PLANNING COMMISSION, TRYING TO GET THAT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT PURSUANT TO THE RECENTLY AMENDED ZONING CODE, THAT THAT ACTUALLY IS A REALLY GREAT EXAMPLE. 
          THE GENERAL RETAIL, UM, PERMITTED BY, RIGHT? SO AGAIN, THE PROPERTY RIGHT, THAT THEY HAVE THROUGH THE I Z O THROUGH OUR LAND USE REGULATIONS PERMITTED BY RIGHT UP TO 25,000 SQUARE FEET BEFORE LAST SUMMER, IT WAS, WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT LIMIT OF 25,000 SQUARE FEET. 
          BUT THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE PROCESS OF AMENDING THE I Z O WHERE WE THEN ESTABLISHED THAT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR A PROJECT THAT WOULD PROPOSE MORE THAN 25,000 SQUARE FEET OF RETAIL SPACE, WE MODIFIED THE PROPERTY RIGHTS. 
          WE DIDN'T ELIMINATE A RIGHT, BUT WE JUST MADE IT SUBJECT TO DISCRETIONARY REVIEW, THEN YOU GRANTED THAT. 
          RIGHT? BUT THEY HAVE TO VEST IT. 
          SO IF WE HAD A, IF WE HAD A PROJECT COME FORWARD THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, UM, 35,000 SQUARE FOOT GROCERY STORE, IT WOULD REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR ITS LAND USE ACTIVITY. 
          AND THEN OF COURSE SPAR FOR, UH, DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY, LAND DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY. 
          SO THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REVIEW PROCESS, YOU COULD, YOU WOULD GRANT THAT, RIGHT? SO YOU WOULD GRANT THEM THE RIGHT TO ENGAGE IN, IN THAT LAND USE AND DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY AT 35,000 SQUARE FEET. 
          BUT THEY ONLY VEST THAT RIGHT ONCE THEY TAKE AN ACTION TO ACT UPON IT. 
          SO THAT'S WHAT DYLAN WAS REFERRING TO WITH THE, THE VESTING EARLIER ON, IS, UM, THE PROCESS OF, OF TAKING AN ACTION TO MAKE THAT RIGHT, SUBSTANTIAL. 
          ONCE THAT ACTION IS TAKEN, ONCE THAT RIGHT IS VESTED, 
          [00:35:01]
THEN IT CAN ONLY BE REVOKED THROUGH THE SAME ACTION IN WHICH IT WAS GRANTED. 
          SO THE REVOCATION WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION TO BE REVOKED. 
          QUESTION. 
          YEAH, I HAVE ONE. 
          UM, SO WHAT ARE ACTIONS THAT WE TAKE THAT DO NOT GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL? A LOT OF WHAT WE DO IS RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THIS, BUT WHERE DOES IT JUST STOP WITH US? WAS THE WHOLE, IS THAT, IS, UM, ONE EXAMPLE WHEN WE RESTRICTED THE, UM, THE TWO 25,000 SQUARE FEET WAS, OR THAT THAT WAS, WAS THAT A RECOMMENDATION? THAT WAS A RECOMMENDATION. 
          SO THAT WAS A QUASI LEGISLATIVE ACTION. 
          UM, SPAR ENTITLEMENTS THAT DOESN'T GO TO CITY COUNCIL UNLESS IT'S APPROVED CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, UH, WARRANTS. 
          UH, WHAT ELSE IS THERE, ANDREW? WELL, THAT'S THE BULK OF WHAT WE BRING FORWARD BECAUSE EVEN TENTATIVE MAPS WOULD, UM, WOULD GONE UP TO COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. 
          SO YEAH. 
          SURE. 
          AND IN YOUR EXAMPLE FOR REVOCATION, UM, NOT THAT WE WILL SEE IT A LOT, BUT ONCE SOMEONE'S VESTED WITH THAT 35,000 SQUARE FOOT, I MEAN, WHAT IS THE SCENARIO BY WHICH THEY WOULD LOSE THAT? IS IT JUST NOT COMPLYING WITH THE ELEMENTS OF APPROVAL THAT ALREADY CAME FORWARD OR, YEAH, SO THAT'S, ANDREW, YOU WANT ME TO TAKE A STAB AT THAT? SURE, SURE. 
          UH, TYPICALLY WHEN YOU SEE OUR CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, THERE WILL BE A REQUIREMENT THAT'S SPELLED OUT, HEY, IF YOU VIOLATE ANY OF THESE CONDITIONS IN THE USE PERMIT, THAT'S SUBJECT TO REVOCATION, THEY'RE ALSO IN CHAPTER 24 OF OUR ZONING CODE. 
          IT SPELLS GREAT REASONS TO REVOKE A, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. 
          AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS RUN WITH THE LAND. 
          SO YOU, AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS AGO YOU MIGHT HAVE GRANTED A CON, UH, A USE PERMIT FOR AN ESTABLISHMENT UNDER THE PREMISE THAT THE POLICE OKAYED THE FIRE MARSHAL, THEY OKAYED IT, AND NOW IT'S ACTING IN A CERTAIN WAY 20 YEARS LATER WITH NEW OWNERS THAT MAYBE THE PLANNING COMMISSION DOESN'T TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT'S CAUSING A NUISANCE. 
          UH, SO NUISANCES, WHAT ELSE? I BELIEVE 24 ALLOWS, IF THE USE IS STOPPED FOR OVER A YEAR, THAT'S GROUNDS FOR REMOVAL. 
          UM, BUT IT'S SPELLED DOWN IN CHAPTER 24, AND I CAN LOOK IT UP TO, UH, COMMISSIONER. 
          WELL, AND I WOULD ASSUME THAT'S RELATIVELY INFREQUENT, OR DO WE SEE THAT OKAY. 
          'CAUSE SINCE I'VE BEEN ON A COMMISSION, WE HAVEN'T HAD ONE OF THOSE, SO, RIGHT. 
          IT IS, IT IS, UM, INFREQUENT AND I THINK THAT OFTENTIMES A USE MAY CHANGE AND, AND IT MAY CHANGE AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PROPERTY OWNER OR A PROPERTY CHANGES HANDS AND, AND THE NEW PROPERTY OWNER WANTS TO ENGAGE IN A DIFFERENT USE. 
          SO, SO THE PRO THE, THE PROPERTY WOULD CHANGE THE, THE USE, BUT THAT VESTED RIGHT IS STILL UNDERLYING THERE. 
          UM, SHOULD IT WISH TO BE REUSED AGAIN? SO IN, IN THE CITY PRIOR TO TO COMING HERE IN THE CITY OF SANTA ROSA, I HAD A CASE WHERE A PROPERTY WAS DEVELOPED IN THE NINETIES AS A, UM, IT WAS LIKE A THREE BAY SORT OF VEHICLE REPAIR SERVICE, BUT THEY TOOK A VACANT PROPERTY, I THINK MAYBE IT HAD A RESIDENTIAL USE ON IT PRIOR, BUT IT HAD OVER TIME BEEN REZONED TO COMMERCIAL. 
          AND THEN IT WAS REDEVELOPED FOR THIS VEHICLE REPAIR USE. 
          THEY CONSTRUCTED A THREE BAY GARAGE. 
          THEY USED IT AS A VEHICLE SERVICES USE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. 
          AND THEN THE VEHICLE SERVICES USE WENT AWAY AND, AND I WANT TO SAY A LANDSCAPING OPERATION CAME IN AND OPERATED OUT OF IT FOR ANOTHER, FOR SEVERAL YEARS. 
          BUT THEN THE, THE VEHICLE SERVICES, THE, THE LANDSCAPE OPERATION LEFT AND, UM, THE VEHICLE SERVICES USE, THE, THE COMMERCIAL BROKER FOUND ANOTHER TENANT WHO WANTED TO, UH, USE IT FOR VEHICLES VEHICLE REPAIR. 
          WHAT WAS INTERESTING ABOUT THAT WAS THAT PROPERTY HAD ACTUALLY BECOME, UH, A QUITE VALUABLE PROPERTY BECAUSE IN THE INTERIM, THE CITY OF SANTA ROSA HAD PASSED CANNABIS LAWS RELATED TO, YOU KNOW, UM, CULTIVATION, MANUFACTURE, DISTRIBUTION OF CANNABIS. 
          AND A LOT OF THE PROPERTIES THAT COULD OTHERWISE BE, UH, USED FOR VEHICLE, UH, REPAIR SERVICES AS A PERMITTED USE WERE BEING USED FOR CANNABIS RELATED ACTIVITIES. 
          AND SO IT MADE THOSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOKED AT, WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE VALUE OF THE CANNABIS BUSINESS COMPARED TO THE VALUE OF THE VEHICLE, YOU KNOW, SERVICES USE, THE, THE CANNABIS USES WERE ABLE TO PAY FAR MORE PER SQUARE FOOT, YOU KNOW, FOR LEASING, FOR TENANT TENANTING THAN WHAT VEHICLE SERVICES WERE. 
          SO THIS PROPERTY WAS ON THE MARKET, ITS LAST USE WAS, UH, LANDSCAPING USE. 
          THE, UH, THE COMMERCIAL BROKER CAME IN AND SAID, UM, WELL, I'VE GOT A, I'VE GOT A CLIENT WHO WOULD LIKE TO ESTABLISH A VEHICLE SERVICES USE AGAIN HERE. 
          [00:40:01]
AND WE LOOKED AT THE CODE AND WE SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, THE LAND USE TABLE SAY THAT A MINOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS REQUIRED IN THE ZONING DISTRICT FOR VEHICLE SERVICES. 
          AND HE SAID, WELL, NO, THAT'S NOT THE CASE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE A VESTED RIGHT TO THAT LAND USE THAT'S UNDERLYING FROM, YOU KNOW, 15 YEARS AGO. 
          AND SO WE REVIEWED IT WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY AND, AND HE WAS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. 
          THAT HADN'T BEEN OUR, OUR PRACTICE, BUT CASE LAW HAD EVOLVED TO WHERE THAT IS THE CASE NOW, THAT IF YOU HAVE, IF YOU'VE VESTED THOSE RIGHTS THAT ARE GRANTED, THEN THOSE RIGHTS REMAIN UNTIL THEY'RE REVOKED. 
          SO IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING CASE. 
          IT WAS, IT WAS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE, THAT'S FOR SURE. 
          UM, OH YEAH, SURE. 
          I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION. 
          WE, YOU GAVE THE EXAMPLE OF, UH, THE, THE BOX STORE MEETING WE HAD WITH COUNCIL, AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF TWO TIMES I CAN THINK OF SINCE I'VE BEEN ON, WHEN PLANNING AND COUNCIL HAD TO MEET TOGETHER FOUR CHANGES TO THE I Z O, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY. 
          I THINK THAT WAS BECAUSE OF THE TIMELINE OF IT. 
          WOULD THE PROCESS, BECAUSE I KNOW TYPICALLY WE'RE WAITING UNTIL THERE'S A REFRESH OF OUR I Z O, BUT IF WE WERE TRYING TO MAKE A LEGISLATIVE CHANGE TO OUR I Z O NOW, WOULD IT STILL HAVE TO BE A JOINT MEETING OR WOULD IT BE ONE MEETING WITH PLANNING THEN TO COUNSEL? I WAS JUST WONDERING IF THAT WAS A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE OR IF THAT IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE EVERY TIME. 
          I DON'T RECALL US DOING THE JOINT ONE CHAIR, BUT YOU'LL RECALL THAT COUPLE WEEKS AGO, UH, OR YOU WEREN'T THERE, SORRY. 
          BUT THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT THE TIME, UH, APPROVED THE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE SENIOR OVERLAY ZONING. 
          SO THAT'S THE ZONING CODE AMENDMENT THAT'S GOING TO COUNCIL ON OCTOBER 2ND. 
          SO TYPICALLY, UNLESS IT'S LIKE AN URGENCY, THAT WOULD BE THE PLAN IS PLANNING COMMISSION AND THEN TWO CITY COUNCIL HEARINGS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THAT WAS JUST UNUSUAL. 
          I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE. 
          OKAY. 
          NO, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION THOUGH. 
          'CAUSE THAT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT CAN GET CONFUSING, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'VE EXPERIENCED IT THROUGH DIFFERENT WAYS. 
          UH, WE DO HAVE THAT DISCRETION TO, TO CONVENE BODIES JOINTLY. 
          SO, UM, I THINK YOU'LL BE SEEING THAT IN THE NEAR FUTURE WE'LL BE CONVENING THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH H C P C, UH, TO CONSIDER THE OVERLAY. 
          SO, UM, AND THEN THE OTHER TYPES OF MEETINGS THAT YOU HOLD ARE PUBLIC MEETINGS. 
          SO THOSE ARE STUDY SESSIONS, INFORMATIONAL PRESENTATIONS AND WORKSHOPS. 
          LIKE THIS EVENING, THEY'RE PUBLIC. 
          WE'VE RECEIVED PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT WE'RE NOT ENGAGING IN THAT QUASI-JUDICIAL ACT ACTION OF MAKING A DECISION. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. 
          THERE ARE DIFFERENT NOTICING REQUIREMENTS BETWEEN THE TWO. 
          UM, BUT, BUT WE CAN GO INTO THAT I THINK LATER ON WHEN WE GET MORE INTO THE ADMINISTRATIVE SPECIFICS. 
          SO THEN DUE PROCESS, I'M, I'M GOING TO LARGELY TURN THIS OVER TO, UH, TO DYLAN SURE. 
          AND, UH, LET HIM WORK THROUGH IT BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S, UH, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, FAIRLY COMPLEX. 
          YEAH. 
          SO DUE PROCESS, THAT'S IN THE 14TH AMENDMENT, UH, THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION. 
          AND IT HAS TWO PARTS, SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS AND PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS. 
          SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS IS REALLY IMPORTANT WHEN YOU ARE ACTING WITH YOUR QUASI LEGISLATIVE HATS. 
          AND IT'S A LOW BAR, BUT THE CITY, WHEN IT PASSED, ITS, ITS, UH, LEGISLATION, ZONING CODE AMENDMENTS. 
          IT NEEDS TO SHOW THAT THEY, IT HAS, THE CITY HAS A LEGITIMATE INTEREST IN THOSE AMENDMENTS. 
          SO, UH, WE CAN DO THE RECENT BOX STORE SENIOR OVERLAY EXAMPLES. 
          UH, THE REASONS JUSTIFICATIONS FOR THE CITY AMENDING THE BIG BOX STORE WAS TO PREVENT VACANCIES TO ALLOW THE CITY TO CONDITION THESE PROPERTIES. 
          SO THEY'RE, UH, TO ADDRESS NUISANCES NOISES, TRAFFIC, UH, SO THE CITY THROUGH ITS POLICE POWERS, THAT WE NEED TO SHOW THAT IT'S NOT ARBITRARY THAT IT'S RELATED TO THE HEALTH, SAFETY, WELFARE OF THE CITIZENS. 
          IT'S A REALLY LOW BAR. 
          AND THAT'S WHY YOU'LL SEE ON OUR RECITALS TO ALL OF OUR RESOLUTIONS AND ORDINANCES, THE JUSTIFICATIONS FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL ENACTING THOSE ORDINANCES. 
          AND REALLY SHAME ON ANDREW AND I IF WE CAN'T, UH, FIGURE OUT A JUSTIFICATION FOR WHY THESE ORDINANCES ARE NECESSARY. 
          UH, THE OTHER, UH, DUE PROCESS IS PROCEDURAL THAT OCCURS MORE WHEN YOU'RE IN YOUR QUASI, UH, JUDICIAL HAVE, HAVE YOUR QUASI-JUDICIAL HATS ON. 
          AND THERE'S REALLY THREE PARTS FOR A PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS. 
          IT'S, UH, WHAT IS A FAIR HEARING? IT IS A NEUTRAL ARBITRATOR. 
          THAT'S YOU GUYS, UH, THAT THE'S ADEQUATE NOTICE TO THE APPELLANT, AND THAT THE APPELLANT HAS THE ABILITY TO PRESENT THEIR EVIDENCE. 
          SO, UH, YOU'LL SEE IT FOR THE OYSTER COVE. 
          THEY ARE ABLE TO, THEY HAD, WHAT, 10, 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT MM-HMM. 
          , THEY'RE ABLE TO SHOW THEIR SLIDES. 
          THEY KNEW ABOUT THE HEARING WELL IN ADVANCE, AND YOU ALL DIDN'T 
          [00:45:01]
HAVE ANY BIASES OR CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, SO YOU WERE NEUTRAL. 
          SO THAT'S REALLY THE PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS. 
          UM, AND THEN I GUESS NEXT SLIDE, ANDREW, UNLESS YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. 
          SURE, YEAH, SURE. 
          UM, WITH EX PARTAKE, UM, IS THAT JUST THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND ALL COMMISSIONS, BUT THE COUNCIL, WE DON'T DO THAT. 
          OH, THAT'S, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. 
          SOMETHING SEPARATE. 
          I, IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA FOR YOU TO DO IT. 
          AND I THINK MAYBE IN A COUPLE SLIDES I DO, BUT I'LL JUST JUMP AHEAD. 
          IS EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS, GETTING IT OUT IS GOOD FOR A COUPLE REASONS. 
          ONE, JUST OPTICS, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES OUT THERE. 
          SO, UH, YOU MIGHT WANT TO SAY, HEY, I MET WITH THE APPLICANT ON THIS DAY. 
          UH, THIS JUST SO IT'S OUT THERE ON THE RECORD. 
          THE SECOND IS PUTTING IT IN THE RECORD IN CASE WE ARE CHALLENGED ON OUR DECISIONS AND IT SOMEBODY TAKES A WRIT UP TO THE SUPERIOR COURT. 
          WE HAVE WHAT OUR REASONINGS FOR THOSE FINDINGS, THEY'RE BASED IN THE RECORD. 
          SO THE JUDGE WON'T HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE A GUESS AT WHY THE PLANNING COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL VOTED AWAY. 
          THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER, CITY COUNCIL COULD SAY, HEY, ON THIS DAY I VISITED THE PROPERTY. 
          I NOTICED THAT IT WAS SO CLOSE TO THE RIVER. 
          I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, AND THAT'S WHY I VOTED AGAINST IT. 
          SO IT'S IN THE RECORD. 
          AND THEN I GUESS A THIRD REASON THAT WE WANT TO GET EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS OUT THERE ARE, AND THIS IS AGAIN SIMILAR TO ON THE RECORD, IS PLANNING COMMISSION SHOULD PROBABLY DECIDE THEY WANT ALL FOR A FAIR HEARING. 
          ALL THE EVIDENCE SHOULD BE OUT THERE AND OPEN FOR ALL THE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS TO DECIDE. 
          UH, BUT YOU ALSO WANT THE APPLICANT THE ABILITY TO REBUT ANY EVIDENCE. 
          SO IF YOU DON'T EXPLAIN WHY YOU VOTED A CERTAIN WAY, THE APPLICANT DOESN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO REBUT THAT. 
          SO, UH, PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO SAY WHAT YOUR EX PARTE CONTACTS ARE, AND I'LL TALK TO, UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY ABOUT THAT AND MAKE SURE FOR ANY, UH, FUTURE HEARINGS THAT THAT'S SAID. 
          YEAH. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SURE. 
          A QUESTION, UM, YOU SAY IT'S, IT IS, IT'S DOCUMENTED, IT'S THE INFORMATION'S AVAILABLE. 
          OUR MEETING NOTES SAY NOTHING. 
          SO WHERE IS THIS DOCUMENT THAT THEY REFER TO? IS IT THE VIDEO? YEAH, IT WOULD BE THE VIDEO, AND TYPICALLY IT WOULD BE THE TRANSCRIPT. 
          THAT'S WHAT THE JUDGE WOULD BASE ITS DECISION ON, AND IT WOULD BE A VERY, VERY LOW BAR. 
          I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT IN A LITTLE SLIDES. 
          UH, THE JUDGE WOULD BASE HIS DECISION ON WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD. 
          SO THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHETHER OR NOT A REASONABLE PERSON WITH ALL OF THE, UH, HEARINGS, ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, ALL THE STAFF REPORTS, ALL OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WERE WRITTEN, COULD A PERSON MAKE THE DECISION JUST BASED ON THAT EVIDENCE OUT THERE. 
          SO IF THAT EVIDENCE DOESN'T EXIST, UH, THE JUDGE WON'T BE ABLE TO MAYBE FIND THAT THERE WAS SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE FOR COUNSELOR PLANNING COMMISSION TO MAKE THAT DECISION. 
          SO MM-HMM. 
          , THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I THINK, UH, DYLAN, ONE, ONE CLARIFICATION. 
          SURE. 
          UM, IS EX PARTE CONTACTS ONLY WITH INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS, OR I THOUGHT I HEARD YOU REFER TO IF YOU GO OUT AND VISIT THE SITE. 
          SO IF, IF I DRIVE BY AND GO, YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S, YOU KNOW, DISREPAIR. 
          YEAH, I THINK IT'S, IS THAT EX PARTE? IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO INCLUDE BOTH. 
          I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY HARM IN IT. 
          UM, AND JUST ON YOUR RECORD, 'CAUSE YOUR OPINION IN VIEWING THE SITE, THAT COULD BE A VERY LEGITIMATE REASON FOR A COURT TO UPHOLD AS SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, THAT REASONING. 
          SO, UH, AND I THINK WE WOULD ALSO WANT TO ENCOURAGE, LIKE OUR PLANNING COMMISSIONERS, H C P C, WHEN THEY VISIT A SITE OR WHEN THEY ARE DOING A SPAR APPLICATION, VISIT THE SITE, UH, JUST SO THEY CAN GET, DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE AND THEY, RATHER THAN RELY ON THE STAFF REPORT PICTURES. 
          YEAH. 
          AND I, I THINK THE OTHER THING TOO, AND, AND MAYBE THIS WAS JUST ME, BUT YOU KNOW, AT EX PARTE DISCLOSURES ARE NOT NEGATIVE. 
          IT'S, IT'S, IT SHOULDN'T BE VIEWED AS SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE DISCLOSING BECAUSE YOU MIGHT HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG. 
          IT'S JUST AS, AS DYLAN SAID, IT'S JUST ENSURING THAT ALL THE EVIDENCE IS PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD AND PART OF THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS. 
          I ALSO WANT TO, WHILE WE'VE GOT THIS HERE, THIS ADEQUATE NOTICE AS PART OF PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS. 
          SO FOR PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS, WE NOTICE IN THREE DIFFERENT MANNERS HERE AT THE CITY OF PETALUMA, WE, WE DO A PUBLISHED NOTICE. 
          WE DO A MAILED NOTICE, AND WE DO AN ONSITE, UH, SIGNAGE NOTICING STATE LAW ONLY REQUIRES THAT WE DO THE MAILED NOTICE AND ONLY UP TO 300 FEET. 
          SO WE ACTUALLY EXCEED THE NOTICING REQUIREMENTS BY THE STATE. 
          OUR, OUR NOTICING, UM, REQUIREMENTS WITHIN THE I Z O DO HAVE A CONDITION 
          [00:50:01]
THAT WE CAN HAVE A DISCREPANCY IN NOTICING, BUT WE CAN PROCEED IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE REVIEW AUTHORITY FINDS THAT THAT DISCREPANCY WOULD NOT HAVE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED REVIEW OF THE PROJECT. 
          AND ANDREW, I'M GONNA TALK TO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, I DID MENTION THAT WE ARE LIMITED BY PREEMPTION OF BOTH FEDERAL AND THE STATE. 
          HOWEVER, PETALUMA, WE ARE ONE OF THE 125 CALIFORNIA CITIES THAT'S A CHARTER CITY OUT OF, I WANNA SAY LIKE 4 75. 
          UH, THE CITY IS ABLE TO SUPERSEDE STATE LAW WHEN IT'S, UH, REGARDING A MUNICIPAL AFFAIR AS OPPOSED TO A STATEWIDE CONCERN. 
          SO REALLY THE STATE ISN'T TOO INVOLVED IN A CITY ZONING CODE. 
          WHAT ITS ZONING MAP LOOKS LIKE, UH, WHAT THE PROCESS IS FOR THE DIFFERENT ENTITLEMENTS, WHAT NOTICE IS REQUIRED. 
          SO THE CITY IS ABLE TO SUPERSEDE ANY CONFLICTING STATE LAW PRETTY MUCH WHEN WITH REGARDS TO ZONING, WHICH IS GOOD. 
          THE OTHER STATE OR MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS PURCHASING, UM, SO PREEMPTION, THERE'S KIND OF THREE WAYS THAT THE FEDERAL LAW, STATE LAW COULD PREEMPT THE LOCAL CITY THAT'S, THEY EITHER OCCUPY THE WHOLE FIELD, UH, THAT THERE IS CONFLICT BETWEEN, THERE'S NO WAY TO COMPLY WITH BOTH THE STATE LAW OR THE FEDERAL LAW OR THE CITY LAW. 
          UM, SO LIKE ANDREW SAID, REGARDING NOTICING, WE'RE NOT IN CONFLICT WITH THE STATE LAW, BUT WE'RE, 'CAUSE THE STATE LAW IS SORT OF JUST THE FLOOR AND WE'RE GOING ABOVE THAT. 
          UH, BUT EVEN IF SOMEBODY SAID, OKAY, WELL THE STATE LAW SAID YOU ONLY NEEDED TO MAIL WITHIN 300 FEET, BUT, UH, CITY YOU REQUIRED ME TO MAIL NOTICES TO EVERYONE WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET, WE WOULD SAY, WELL, A, THERE'S NOT A CONFLICT, SO THERE'S NO PREEMPTION. 
          BUT B, EVEN IF THERE WAS PREEMPTION, THAT THE CITY'S ABILITY TO NOTICE UNDER OUR ZONING CODE IS A MUNICIPAL FAIR AND NOT A STATE LAW. 
          AND THEREFORE WE COULD SUPERSEDE, UH, THE STATE LAW LOCATED. 
          YEAH. 
          I KINDA HAVE A QUESTION ON THIS. 
          UM, BECAUSE THE CITY USED TO DO 300 FEET AND THEN THEY DID 500 AND THEN SOMETIMES A THOUSAND. 
          IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE'S AN INCONSISTENCY THERE WHEN WE GO FROM ONE PROJECT TO THE NEXT. 
          AND I UNDERSTAND SOME PROJECTS MIGHT NOT HAVE ANYTHING AROUND, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S NOT LIKELY. 
          SO WHY, WHAT IS THE PROCESS OF GOING FURTHER? DOES IT HAVE TO GO BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL? IS IT PART OF THE GENERAL PLAN? I THINK IT WOULD REQUIRE, AND I'M LOOKING RIGHT NOW, AND ANDREW, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TO PULL IT UP, YOU'RE ABLE TO PULL IT UP. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT IT'S KIND OF SPELLED OUT IN THE MUNICIPAL CODE SECTION 24 100, WHAT TYPE OF ENTITLEMENTS AND PERMITS REQUIRE 500 FEET, WHICH ONES REQUIRE A THOUSAND FEET. 
          AND THIS IS CODIFIED IN OUR ZONING CODE. 
          SO IT WOULD REQUIRE AN AMENDMENT TO ANY CHANGES. 
          UH, THAT'D BE A RECOMMENDATION BY PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          AND THEN TWO READINGS BY CITY COUNCIL. 
          UH, BUT THEY'RE ALSO IN OUR RECENT AMENDMENTS, WE KIND OF GAVE A CATCHALL PROVISION THAT SAYS IF AT THE PLANNING MANAGER'S DISCRETION, IF HE FEELS OR SHE THAT MORE NOTICE IS REQUIRED, 'CAUSE IT'S A CONTROVERSIAL ITEM OR WHATEVER, UH, WE CAN REQUIRE ADDITIONAL NOTICING. 
          SO, UM, THERE'S A TABLE, ANDREW, SOMEWHERE THAT SAYS, SO RIGHT THERE THAT LIST WHAT THE TYPE OF ENTITLEMENT IS AND WHAT THE DIFFERENT, UH, REQUIRED RADIUS FOR THE MAIL NOTICES ARE. 
          SO IT IS 300 FEET WITH THE COUNTY, WITH THE STATE, THEN YOU CAN GO AS LOW AS 300 MM-HMM. 
          . 
          OKAY. 
          WELL, I GUESS THAT'S SOMETHING TO LOOK AT. 
          . 
          THANKS. 
          I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION. 
          IT'S GOING BACK TO THE, THE CHARTER CITY POINT THAT YOU BROUGHT UP REGARDING ZONING AND PREEMINENCE WITH THE STATE. 
          SO DOES THAT MEAN LIKE WHEN SB NINE PASSED AND CITIES UP AND DOWN THE STATE WERE FURIOUS, DID WE HAVE TO ADHERE TO S SP NINE AS A CHARTER CITY? OR WERE WE ALLOWED TO THAT WOULD BE AN ARGUMENT. 
          PASS IT. 
          THE, WHAT THE STATE DOES, AND I'M SURE THEY DID WITH SB NINE AND PRETTY MUCH ANY OTHER RECENT HOUSING LEGISLATION, THEY EXPLICITLY INCLUDE AS ONE OF THE SECTIONS IN THE, OR, UH, IN THE LAW THAT SAYS, THIS IS A STATEWIDE CONCERN. 
          THIS SECTION OR THESE AMENDMENTS WILL APPLY TO CHARTER CITIES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THAT'S HOW THEY TRY TO GET IT AROUND IT, BUT ULTIMATELY IT WOULD BE UP TO A JUDGE TO MAKE THAT DECISION. 
          UM, INTERESTING. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT NOT, NOT ONE WE WOULD WANNA BE THE GUINEA PIG, I WOULD SAY FOR, NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. 
          I WAS JUST CURIOUS ABOUT IT, GIVEN THAT SEEMED LIKE A GIANT OPENING. 
          OKAY. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT, ACTUALLY, UH, CHAIR, I DO THINK THERE IS SOME RECENT LEGISLATION RE OR NOT LEGISLATION, UH, A CASE THAT MAY BE WINDING ITS WAY UP TO THE CALIFORNIA SUPREME 
          [00:55:01]
COURT WHERE THEY'RE MAKING THAT ARGUMENTS. 
          UM, I WAS TRYING TO THINK. 
          YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. 
          THERE IS ONE THAT'S WORKING THROUGH RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I KNOW LEAGUE OF CITIES, THEY ASKED FOR SPECIFIC EXAMPLES FOR CITIES WHERE SB NINE JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. 
          UM, SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT IS IN THE, UH, LAWSUIT PROCESS RIGHT NOW, BUT IT IS A CURRENT CASE. 
          INTERESTING. 
          THANK YOU. 
          GREAT. 
          THANK YOU FOR THOSE QUESTIONS. 
          IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT'S ALWAYS GREAT TO ENGAGE IN DISCUSSION LIKE THIS. 
          UH, SO, SO BIASES, DYLAN, I THINK YOU TOUCHED ON THAT, BUT IF YOU WANNA FOLLOW UP. 
          YEAH. 
          SO THERE'S REALLY TWO CASES, AND THIS GOES BACK INTO HAVING A NEUTRAL ARBITRATOR FOR A FAIR HEARING. 
          UH, THERE'S TWO CASES THAT DISCUSS CONFLICTS OF INTEREST. 
          ONE'S THE CITY OF FAIRFIELD, ONE'S THE CITY OF NASHUA, AND THEY KIND OF GIVE CONFLICTING OPINIONS. 
          BUT TWO, YOU DON'T WANT TO EXPLICITLY COME OUT BEFORE YOU HEAR, UH, THE APPLICANT, UH, MAKE A DECISION. 
          UH, 'CAUSE THEN THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY, WELL, IT WASN'T A NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY THAT I WAS IN FRONT OF. 
          THEY ALREADY MADE THEIR DECISION. 
          I WASN'T ABLE TO REBUT ANY OF THEIR EVIDENCE. 
          UH, THE FAIRFIELD CASE, I THINK IT WAS A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER THAT WAS RUNNING FOR REELECTION, AND HE WAS ABLE TO GIVE HIS OPINIONS ON SOME RECENT DEVELOPMENTS. 
          UH, THE COURT SAID, WELL, RUNNING FOR CITY COUNCIL, THEY ARE, UH, GOING DOOR TO DOOR PUBLIC MEETINGS SAYING THEIR OPINION, AND THAT'S HOW PEOPLE ARE VOTING. 
          SO WE DON'T WANNA PRECLUDE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS FROM DOING THAT. 
          UH, BUT THEN YOU GET TO THE NASHUA CASE, AND I WANNA SAY A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER WROTE AN OP-ED, UH, EXCORIATING A PROJECT BEFORE IT CAME TO THEM. 
          AND THEY SAID, WELL, THAT SHOWED ACTUAL BIAS. 
          OBVIOUSLY HE WASN'T GOING TO BE NEUTRAL, UH, CONSIDERING THAT. 
          SO I GUESS IT, IT IS CONFLICTING. 
          I THINK THE TAKEAWAY THERE IS IF YOU'RE RUNNING, YOU PROBABLY HAVE A LITTLE MORE LEEWAY. 
          I RECOMMEND IF YOU'RE IN PUBLIC MEETINGS OR RECEIVE EMAILS FROM THE PUBLIC, JUST SAY, HEY, I HAVEN'T REACHED A DECISION. 
          THANK YOU FOR MY COMMENTS. 
          I'M WAITING FOR THE PRESENTATION AND SEEING ALL THE EVIDENCE BEFORE ME HEARING ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, THEN I'LL MAKE MY DECISION. 
          UH, AND IT WOULD BE ON THE APPLICANT AT THE TIME OF THE HEARING TO SAY, HEY, THERE IS SOME BIAS. 
          SO I GUESS THE WAY TO SORT OF, UH, PROPHYLACTIC THERE IS, HEY, CITY COUNCIL MEMBER X, UH, DOES YOUR OP-ED OR PREVIOUS OPINIONS, DOES THAT PREVENT YOU FROM MAKING AN INFORMED, IMPARTIAL DECISION? AND HOPEFULLY THEY GET THEM ON THE RECORD SAYING, NO, I WILL BE IMPARTIAL AND WEIGH ALL THE EVIDENCE. 
          SO, UH, I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR THAT WOULD GET YOU, BUT THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE THE BEST, UH, PROPHYLACTIC, LIKE I SAID. 
          ANY QUESTIONS THERE? YEAH, JUST A QUICK QUESTION. 
          SO SAY YOU'RE GONNA RUN FOR CITY COUNCIL AND YOU WROTE AN OP-ED AND IT WAS BEFORE EVEN THE TIMEFRAME TO SIGN UP. 
          AND WHERE DOES THAT, WHERE IS THE LINE? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. 
          UM, I, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S, IT WOULD BE UP TO A JUDGE DECIDE, AND THAT WOULD BE THE ARGUMENT, HEY, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS TWO YEARS AGO. 
          UH, OBVIOUSLY MY OPINIONS CHANGE WITHIN TWO YEARS. 
          I HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING RECENTLY. 
          UH, I, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU THERE BY SMM, BUT OKAY, THAT'S FINE. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          GREAT. 
          AND THEN A FAIR PUBLIC HEARING. 
          UM, SO IF YOU, IF YOU'VE NOTICED WHEN WE, WHEN A PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED, WE, WE OPEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AS A PUBLIC MEETING, THEN WE BRING A MEETING ITEM FORWARD AND SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A, IT'S A PUBLIC HEARING FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT OF, YOU KNOW, 53 UNIT MULTIFAMILY, UM, PROJECT. 
          AND, AND THEN AS WE WORK THROUGH IT, THEN THE CHAIR WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, RECEIVE THE APPLICANT'S TESTIMONY, RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENT, AND THEN CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION. 
          SO THE ENTIRETY OF THE MEETING IS NOT THE PUBLIC HEARING, IT'S THAT COMPONENT WHERE THE RECORD IS RECEIVING APPLICANT EVIDENCE AND PUBLIC COMMENT COMING TOGETHER. 
          SO ACTUALLY THE STAFF PRESENTATION AND THE COMMISSION DISCUSSION SIT OUTSIDE OF THE PUBLIC HEARING IS STILL PUBLIC MEETING, BUT THE, THOSE ACTIONS ARE OUTSIDE OF THE PUBLIC HEARING ITSELF. 
          ANDREW, HI. 
          UM, WHY IS THIS NEW? 'CAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, YOU KNOW? SURE. 
          PREVIOUS TO A YEAR AGO MM-HMM. 
          OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          WHAT CHANGED? I THINK, I THINK IT'S JUST A REFINEMENT IN READING WHAT THE PUBLIC HEARING CONSTITUTES, AND IT'S THAT PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE AND RECEIVING PUBLIC, UM, PUBLIC RESPONSE TO THE PROPOSED THE PROPOSAL. 
          [01:00:01]
SO IT'S JUST A REFINEMENT OF THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, BUT, BUT THEN WHAT WE DO IS WE PRESENT YOU WITH THE STAFF REPORT AND THE APPLICATION MATERIALS THAT HAVE BEEN BEEN RECEIVED. 
          THAT BECOMES PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD PART OF THE EVIDENCE. 
          YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS TELL MY STAFF, YOU IN, IN THE PROCESS OF PLANNING REVIEW, YOU'RE ACTUALLY PRODUCING TWO THINGS. 
          ONE IS YOU'RE PRODUCING THAT PROCESS, RIGHT? YOU'RE ENSURING THAT DUE PROCESS IS AFFORDED BOTH SUBSTANTIAL AND PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS. 
          SO ONE OF THE PRODUCTS FROM THE PLANNING REVIEW IS PROCESS, BUT THEN THE OTHER PRODUCT IS THE PUBLIC RECORD BECAUSE THAT'S THE LEGAL RECORD OF THE DECISION THAT THAT WAS MADE. 
          AND THAT INCLUDES THE EVIDENCE IN THE FORM OF TECHNICAL REPORTS AND STUDIES, YOU KNOW, THE PROJECT DESCRIPTION, THE SITE PLAN, ALL THOSE VARIOUS DOCUMENTS THAT COME TOGETHER AND FORM THE LEGAL RECORD FOR THAT DISCRETIONARY QUASI-JUDICIAL DECISION THAT'S BEEN MADE. 
          AND THEN OF COURSE WE HAVE THE APPLICANT TESTIMONY, WHICH IS THE APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION OF THE PROJECT, RESPONDING TO QUESTIONS THAT ARE, ARE ASKED BY THE REVIEW AUTHORITY, UM, BASICALLY, UH, REPRESENTING THE PROJECT TO THE REVIEW AUTHORITY AND THEN, UM, EVIDENCE PRESENTED BY ANY OTHER AFFECTED PERSON THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION DEEMS RELEVANT, WHICH WOULD BE PUBLIC COMMENT THAT'S RECEIVED. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, WE RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENT THROUGHOUT AND, AND, UH, WE'RE ALWAYS OPEN TO RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENT. 
          WE HAVE CERTAIN NOTICING PERIODS, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE DON'T RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENT OUTSIDE OF IT. 
          AND WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING AT THOSE PUBLIC COMMENT TO BETTER UNDERSTAND IS THERE AN ISSUE THAT'S BEING PRESENTED OR BEING PERCEIVED BY THE PUBLIC THAT ISN'T OTHERWISE PRESENTING THROUGH THE PLANNING REVIEW THAT'S BEING CONDUCTED THROUGH ANALYSIS OF TECHNICAL STUDIES AND REPORTS, THE S Q A PROCESS AND SO FORTH. 
          UM, HI, UM, ALL OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WE GET IN THE EMAIL THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE THOSE AS EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS, RIGHT? NO. 
          'CAUSE THOSE ARE PART OF THE RECORD. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          UHHUH. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          BUT I GUESS IF YOU RECEIVE AN EMAIL SEPARATELY THAT'S NOT CC'D TO ALL THE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS, PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO SHARE WITH ANDREW, YOU ALL ME, AND THEN WE CAN SHARE WITH EVERYONE. 
          OR BETTER YET, WE'LL POST IT TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT, UH, IN THE AGENDA SECTION JUST SO IT BECOMES A PART OF THE RECORD. 
          AND ALL THE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS ARE ABLE TO LOOK AT IT AND USE THAT AS PART OF THEIR DECISION MAKING PROCESS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I HAVE A FOLLOW UP WITH THAT. 
          UM, SO IF, IF YOU WRITE SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, AS A COUNCIL MEMBER, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU THANK THEM, UM, HOW, HOW SOMETIMES IT CAN, IT COULD BE PERCEIVED THAT YOU'RE SUPPORTING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT YOU'RE REALLY JUST THANKING THEM FOR THE LETTER YEAH. 
          THAT THEY SENT IN. 
          AND SO THERE SEEMS TO BE A GRAY AREA AND I'M NOT SURE, I MEAN, SO DOES THAT PERTAIN TO COMMISSIONERS ALSO? I THINK IT WOULD PROBABLY JUST TO BE SAFE, SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT. 
          I HAVEN'T DECIDED YET. 
          OR, UM, I THINK THANK YOU'S PROBABLY. 
          OKAY. 
          IT WOULD BE ON THE APPLICANT TO SHOW THAT THAT EMAIL ACTUALLY IS BIAS. 
          AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE A PRETTY HARD BAR JUST WITH A THANK YOU. 
          'CAUSE IT COULD BE INTERPRETED SO MANY WAYS, BUT TO BE SAFE, IT MIGHT JUST BE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT. 
          SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          THANKS. 
          UH, YEAH, SURE. 
          RELATED TO THAT, BECAUSE I GET A LOT OF THESE, UH, WHEN I, WHEN I GIVE A THANK YOU KIND OF IN THE SAME BOAT, I TRY TO AVOID HITTING THAT LINE, BUT A LOT OF THE TIME I'LL FLAG WHATEVER THE THING THEY'RE RAISING IS IN THE THANKS, NOT AGREEING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, BUT JUST THANKING THEM FOR CARING ABOUT X. 
          MM-HMM. 
          YEAH, GOOD POINT. 
          LIKE THAT IN PART BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THEM TO THINK, I'M JUST SAYING THANK YOU PERFORMATIVELY, AND THEN IGNORING THEM OR NOT READING THE REST OF THEIR COMMENT. 
          UH, IS THAT STILL OKAY WITHOUT CROSSING THE LINE? I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE. 
          YEAH, TOTALLY. 
          I THINK THAT IS OKAY. 
          UHHUH. 
          . 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          KIND OF RELATED HERE, WHEN WE HAVE A, A PROJECT COMING UP, UM, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT SUBJECT MATTER, UH, SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS AT EVERYTHING. 
          WHAT ABOUT, OR IS THERE ANY LINE WE HAVE TO BE WARY OF CROSSING WHEN ELICITING FEEDBACK OR RECEIVING FEEDBACK FROM PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF AN ISSUE, LIKE A WETLANDS ISSUE OR A ARCHITECTURAL ISSUE? I MEAN, IF WE HAVE LIKE A, A REFERENCE POINT IN THE COMMUNITY, IS IT OKAY TO SAY, HEY, SEND ME YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS? OR IS THAT STEPPING OVER, OR, NO, I THINK IT WOULD BE MORE, UH, EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE EXPLICIT APPLICANT OR THE SPECIFIC APPLICANT. 
          SO IF YOU HAVE SOME EXPERT IN THE FIELD THAT'S PROVIDING YOU EVIDENCE, UH, THAT YOU USE AS PART OF YOUR DECISION MAKING PROCESS MM-HMM. 
          , UH, THAT'S TOTALLY FINE. 
          MIGHT WANT TO EX PUT IT ON THE RECORD, MAYBE SHARE IT WITH ANDREW AND I SO WE CAN THEN, UH, PROVIDE IT TO EVERYBODY ELSE. 
          BUT I THINK THAT'S OKAY, COMMISSIONER. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT IS PART OF, I WOULD SEE IT ALSO AS BEING PART OF YOU DOING YOUR DUE DILIGENCE, RIGHT. 
          TO UNDERSTAND, 
          [01:05:01]
UNDERSTAND THE, UH, THE PROJECT THAT'S COMING BEFORE YOU AND POTENTIAL IMPACT. 
          SO, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW FOR AN APPLICANT SAYING, LOOK, I DIDN'T HAVE THIS PERSON, THIS EXPERT TO CONSULT WITH, SO I LIKE THE FALLBACK OF SUBMITTING IT TO STAFF. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          RIGHT? SO WE'RE GOING TO, UH, SHIFT GEARS A LITTLE BIT AGAIN, UH, AND DELVE INTO THE, THE REVIEW PROCESS ITSELF. 
          WE'RE GOING TO START BY DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN THE MINISTERIAL REVIEW PROCESS AND DISCRETIONARY REVIEW PROCESS. 
          PRIOR TO SB 35, UH, YOU LIKELY WEREN'T PRIVY TO ANY MINISTERIAL REVIEW PROCESSES UNLESS YOU WENT THROUGH THEM YOURSELF AS A PROPERTY OWNER, RIGHT? BECAUSE MINISTERIAL IS, YOU KNOW, AN APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED, IT'S REVIEWED AGAINST A REGULATIONS, COMPLIANCE WITH THE REGULATIONS IS REQUIRED. 
          THERE'S NO DISCRETION THERE. 
          SO WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT EXPANDING OR CONTRACTING THE RIGHTS AVAILABLE UNDER THE I C O. 
          SO IT SIMPLY SAYS, I WANNA DO THIS. 
          AND A BUILDING PERMIT, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR SORT OF TYPICAL BUILDING PERMIT, UM, FOR, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS AN EXPANSION TO A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE, UM, WOULD, WOULD GO THROUGH A MINISTERIAL PROCESS. 
          AND THEN WE CONTRAST THAT THEN WITH THE DISCRETIONARY REVIEW PROCESS. 
          AND REAL QUICK, ANDREW, SORRY TO INTERRUPT THERE TOO. 
          I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO SAY WHAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, UH, WHAT ONE INDIFFERENCE BETWEEN MINISTERIAL AND DISCRETIONARY IS C Q A ONLY APPLIES TO DISCRETIONARY PROJECTS. 
          SO IF IT IS CLASSIFIED AS MINISTERIAL, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY C A. 
          UM, SO I THINK BESIDES BUILDING PERMITS, WHEN CITY COUNCIL APPROVES A FINAL MAP, UH, THAT IS A MINISTERIAL ITEM BECAUSE THE VESTING TE OF MAPS, UH, WILL RUN THROUGH ALL OF THE DISCRETIONARY PROCESS BUILDING PERMITS IS THE OTHER ONE I COULD THINK OF. 
          AND THEN WITH SSB 35, IT REALLY IS, DOES THE PROJECT MEET ALL OF THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS? AND IF SO, THEN IT IS APPROVED. 
          YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE ANY C Q A. 
          SO THOSE ARE REALLY THE THREE MINISTERIAL ITEMS THAT I CAN, OR APPLICATIONS. 
          UM, AND CE A DOES NOT APPLY TO EITHER OF THOSE, BUT, BUT I MIGHT, I MIGHT EXPAND ON THAT A BIT. 
          I THINK THE PRESUMPTION IS THAT CE A HAS ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED, RIGHT? CORRECT. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT THE LEGISLATURE IN DECIDING, HEY, SB 35 PROJECTS SENDS A MEETS AND CHECKS ALL THESE BOX BOXES, SQL HAS ALREADY BEEN COMPLIED WITH, IT'S NOT GONNA CAUSE SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , RIGHT? SO, SO AGAIN, IF WE GO BACK TO SAY, EXPANSION OF A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, IT'S WITHIN THE SETBACKS. 
          YOU'RE NOT ON A HISTORIC PROPERTY, SO YOU'RE NOT SUBJECT TO HS A R. 
          THE, THE PRESUMPTION IS THAT WHEN THAT SUBDIVISION WAS ESTABLISHED AND THAT S Q L WAS DONE AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THAT THAT DISCRETIONARY ACTION WAS TAKEN, AND THAT ANY POTENTIAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS WERE MITIGATED AS A RESULT OF THE S Q A REVIEW THAT WAS CONDUCTED AT THAT TIME. 
          AND SO THEREFORE, THEN THE STREAMLINING, IF YOU WILL, IS THAT THE BUILDING PERMIT IS ESTABLISHED AS A MINISTERIAL PERMIT AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO QUA. 
          SURE. 
          A, A QUESTION, UM, I ASSUME THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE BEEN RECEIVING EMAILS ABOUT A PROJECT THAT'S, UH, I, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT, BUT IT'S OVER THERE. 
          SURE. 
          TWO, THE WEST OF THE ROUNDABOUT, WE YEAH. 
          HIGHER DENSITY. 
          SO ALL THESE EMAILS ARE COMING TO THE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS. 
          I THINK THEY'RE ASSUMING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS SOME INVOLVEMENT, BUT IT'S A MINISTERIAL REVIEW. 
          SO, SO, SURE. 
          SO WE'VE GOT, WE HAVE TWO PROJECTS NOW THAT ARE BOTH, EACH OF THEM IS 100% AFFORDABLE. 
          THE FIRST IS, UH, ON EAST WASHINGTON AVENUE ACROSS FROM THE ENTRANCE TO THE FAIRGROUNDS. 
          THAT'S, THEY'VE PROVIDED A LETTER OF INTENT THAT THEY WILL PURSUE SSB 35 FOR THAT PROJECT. 
          SB 35 IS STATE LEGISLATION THAT PROVIDES FOR STREAMLINING BY ELIMINATING THE DISCRETIONARY REVIEW PROCESS THAT GOES, GOES THROUGH THE MINISTERIAL PROCESS, PROVIDED THAT IT COMPLIES WITH ALL OBJECTIVE STANDARDS. 
          THE TWO RAVINA LANE IS AN SB THREE 30 PROJECT THAT IS STILL A DISCRETIONARY PROJECT, EXCEPT THAT THE SB THREE 30 PROCESS HAS THE EFFECT OF VESTING AT THE TIME THAT ELIGIBILITY IS DETERMINED. 
          SO IF THROUGH THE COURSE OF TIME, YOU KNOW, REGULATIONS WERE TO CHANGE, WE WERE TO AMEND THE I Z O, IT WOULD STILL BE REVIEWED UNDER THE, I THE REGULATIONS THAT WERE IN PLACE AT THE TIME THAT SSB THREE 30 ELIGIBILITY WAS ESTABLISHED. 
          SO YOU WILL 
          [01:10:01]
HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW SPAR FOR THAT PROJECT. 
          OKAY. 
          BECAUSE I, I WAS ASSUMING THAT THEY WERE NOT AWARE THAT WE WERE NOT INVOLVED THE, THE PEOPLE RESPONDING TO THE EMAIL OR WITH THE EMAILS. 
          RIGHT, RIGHT. 
          AND I, I THINK WE CLARIFIED THAT FOR MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY THAT, THAT IT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO DISCRETIONARY REVIEW. 
          YOU DID. 
          AND, AND I WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO SEGUE BRIAN, BRIAN SENT SEVERAL EMAILS OUT, BECAUSE I GOT QUITE A FEW OF THOSE AND WAS REDIRECTING THEM PRETTY QUICKLY. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , HE, I THINK IT WAS PRETTY FORM LETTER AT THAT POINT, BUT HE'S BEEN SENDING THAT OUT TO EVERYBODY THAT WE'VE SENT IT TO. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          RIGHT. 
          GREAT QUESTION THOUGH. 
          AND, AND INTERESTING BECAUSE THEY'RE, EACH OF THEM IS A HUNDRED PERCENT AFFORDABLE, TAKING TWO DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO, UH, THE RE THE LOCAL REVIEW PROCESS SPURRED ON BY, BY DIFFERENT FACTORS, I THINK. 
          UM, SO THEN THE DISCRETIONARY PROCESS STARTS OUT THE SAME. 
          THE, THE, UH, PROJECT PROPONENT SUBMITS AN APPLICATION WE REVIEW FOR CONSISTENCY WITH APPLICABLE POLICIES AND PLANS, AND WE REVIEW FOR COMPLIANCE WITH APPLICABLE REGULATIONS. 
          THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT SOMEWHERE IN THE REGULATIONS THAT ESTABLISHED THAT SOMETHING COULD BE ALLOWED SUBJECT TO DISCRETIONARY REVIEW. 
          SO THAT'S WHERE IT COMES BEFORE YOU IN THAT QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCESS TO MAKE THAT DECISION. 
          CAN THAT, THAT BE ALLOWED BASED UPON WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING? SO AGAIN, IF WE GO BACK TO THE EXAMPLE OF A 35,000 SQUARE FOOT SUPERMARKET, THAT WOULD REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND, UM, SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW. 
          SO THERE, THERE, THE CODE SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO RETAIL OVER 25,000 SQUARE FEET, BUT WE RECOGNIZE THAT THERE MAY BE PARTICULAR IMPACTS THAT NEED CLOSER REVIEW AND SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO DISCRETION. 
          SO IN THAT CASE, THEN THAT PROJECT WOULD COME BEFORE YOU, WHEREAS IF THE, IF THE SUPERMARKET SQUARE FOOTAGE WAS UNDER 25,000 SQUARE FEET, ONLY SPAR WOULD COME BEFORE YOU FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY. 
          UM, GO AHEAD. 
          YEAH, I WAS GONNA MENTION TOO, IN THE DISCRETIONARY PROCESS, AND ANDREW, PLEASE LEMME KNOW IF I'M WRONG HERE. 
          UH, IT COULD EITHER BE ADMINISTRATIVE MEANING STAFF HANDLES IT, OR IT GOES TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          AND HOW THAT'S DECIDED IS IN CHAPTER 24 OF THE CODE, UH, ESSENTIALLY STAFF HANDLES THE MINOR THINGS THAT PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL, WHILE DRAFTING CHAPTER 24 SAID, WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE THESE KEEP GOING IN FRONT OF US STAFF. 
          YOU CAN HANDLE IT. 
          AND ALTHOUGH IT IS, DOES GO TO STAFF ADMINISTRATIVELY, UH, IT IS A DISCRETIONARY DECISION, MEANING STAFF NEEDS TO MAKE ALL THE SAME FINDINGS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD NEED TO MAKE. 
          IF IT DOESN'T MAKE THOSE FINDINGS, THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO CHALLENGE ARBITRARY CAPRICIOUS, UH, SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS CHALLENGES, AND STAFF HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONDITION THOSE PROJECTS AS WELL. 
          SO THERE IS SOME CONFUSION OUT THERE THAT JUST BECAUSE A PROJECT GOES IS HANDLED ADMINISTRATIVELY THAT IT'S NOT, UH, DISCRETIONARY. 
          AND THAT'S NOT THE TRUTH. 
          AND, AND THAT'S A GREAT POINT. 
          AND, AND STAFF DO NOT MAKE THE DECISION ON, ON ADMINISTRATIVE DISCRETIONARY REVIEW ITEMS. THE, THE ZONING CODE ESTABLISHES THAT, UM, THE ROLE OF THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR IS THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR. 
          AND THEN, SO THAT'S THE REVIEW AUTHORITY FOR ADMINISTRATIVE DISCRETIONARY ITEMS, MINOR SPAR, MINOR, C U P AND SO FORTH. 
          WHAT THE, WHAT THE DIRECTOR DOES THEN PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORITY GRANTED THROUGH THE CODE, CAN DELEGATE THAT ROLE TO ME AS THE PLANNING MANAGER. 
          SO IF I REVIEW AN ADMINISTRATIVE, A MINOR C U P, UM, AT STAFF PREPARES IT, STAFF MAKES THE FINDINGS, STAFF MAKES THE RECOMMENDATION, THEN I REVIEW IT ON BEHALF OF THE DIRECTOR. 
          OFTENTIMES I CONSULT WITH HIM, BUT I'VE, THAT HE'S DELEGATED THE AUTHORITY TO ME TO SIGN AND, AND TO FORMALIZE THAT DECISION FOR THE MINOR C U P. 
          SO, UM, AND THEN OF COURSE, THESE, UH, THESE, ALL OF THE DISCRETIONARY ACTIONS HAVE THE APPEAL PROCESS BEFORE THEM. 
          AND THAT APPEAL PROCESS CAN GO ALL THE WAY UP AS, AS DESCRIBED IN THE CODE. 
          IT COULD GO UP TO THE CITY COUNCIL, SHOULD, UM, YOU KNOW, SHOULD SOMEBODY FILE A A LAWSUIT, THE FIRST QUESTION THAT WOULD BE ASKED IS, DID YOU EXHAUST YOUR DUE PROCESS? MEANING, DID YOU WORK THROUGH ALL OF THE APPEALS THAT WERE GRANTED OR WERE AVAILABLE TO YOU, UM, THROUGH THE JURISDICTIONS, UH, LAND USE REGULATIONS. 
          SO THEN PROJECT CONDITIONS, UM, YOU'LL KNOW THAT WE DO, UH, WE ALWAYS HAVE PROJECT CONDITIONS WITH A DISCRETIONARY 
          [01:15:01]
APPROVAL. 
          WE HAVE THE FINDINGS SECTION, AND THEN WE GO INTO THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. 
          AND THEY CAN BE FAR RANGING. 
          WE TYPICALLY WILL HAVE STANDARD CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL THAT ARE REQUIRED OF ANY DISCRETIONARY PROJECT, UM, OBTAIN A BUILDING PERMIT, FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, IF ONE IS REQUIRED. 
          UM, AND, AND THEN WE GET INTO, UM, THE, THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, WHICH MAY BE UNIQUE TO A PROJECT. 
          I THINK AN EXAMPLE WOULD BE, UH, 5,002 PETALUMA BOULEVARD NORTH, WHERE THE MASTER SIGN PROGRAM REQUIRED THE REMOVAL OF THE EXISTING MONUMENT SIGN THERE AT THE INTERSECTION OF PETALUMA BOULEVARD NORTH AND, UM, AUTO CENTER DRIVE. 
          SO THAT'S A, THAT WOULD BE A SPECIAL CONDITION OF APPROVAL THAT THAT HAS TO BE MET. 
          BUT A COUPLE OF CONCEPTS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO PROJECT REVIEW AND TO CONDITIONS ARE THE CONCEPT OF NEXUS, WHICH IS A LIMITING FACTOR, AND PROPORTIONALITY, WHICH ALSO IS A LIMITING FACTOR, CONSTRAINING THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS. 
          SO DYLAN, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE THOSE TWO WITH US? YEAH. 
          AND SO THE CITY'S ABILITY AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S ABILITY TO, UH, ISSUE CONDITIONS THAT IS THROUGH THE CITY'S POLICE POWER. 
          BUT WE ARE, UH, LIMITED, LIKE ANDREW SAID, UH, WE NEED TO HAVE A LEGITIMATE REASON FOR THAT, AND THERE NEEDS TO BE A NEXUS BETWEEN WHAT IMPACT WE ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS WITH THAT CONDITION. 
          AND IT NEEDS TO BE IN PROPORTIONAL. 
          SO THERE'S TWO SUPREME COURT CASES OUT THERE. 
          THE FIRST ONE IS NOLAN THAT REALLY ADDRESSED AND CREATED THE, UH, NEXUS. 
          AND IN THAT CASE, THE CITY WAS WORRIED ABOUT PEOPLE HAVING BE HAVING THE ABILITY TO VIEW THE OCEAN. 
          SO WHAT THEY DID IS THEY SAID, WE WANT AN EASEMENT TO ALLOW THE PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE BEACH. 
          WELL, THE SUPREME COURT SAID, WELL, IF YOUR CONCERN WAS PEOPLE VIEWING THE BEACH, JUST PROVIDING THEM ACCESS, THAT THERE'S NO REAL NEXUS THERE. 
          UM, SO THAT'S THE NOLAN CASE. 
          AND THEN THE DOLAN CASE WAS REGARDING A, I WANNA SAY A HARDWARE STORE UP IN OREGON. 
          AND AS PART OF THE BUILDING PERMIT FOR THAT, THE CITY COUNCIL SAID, WELL, WE WANT ALL OF THE, LIKE A A THOUSAND FEET NEAR YOUR PROPERTY THAT HAS THE FLOODWAY SO WE CAN MAKE IMPROVEMENTS THERE. 
          SO THE SUPREME COURT SAID A THOUSAND FEET OF THE FLOODWAY PROPERTY THAT WAS NOT PROPORTIONAL TO THE ENTITLEMENT OF A BUILDING PERMIT. 
          SO THEY CONSTANT FOUND THAT THOSE, UH, WERE A TAKING, UH, TAKINGS UNDER THE FIFTH AMENDMENT. 
          UH, THERE'S REALLY TWO TYPES OF TAKINGS. 
          THERE'S THE PHYSICAL TAKING AND THERE IS THE REGULATORY TAKING. 
          PHYSICAL TAKING IS PRETTY EASY. 
          THAT IS THE CITY TAKING AN EASEMENT, PUTTING SOMETHING ON THE PRO PROPERTY LIKE A CELL TOWER. 
          UH, A REGULATORY TAKING IS AN EXACTION OR A DEVELOPMENT FEE THAT'S SO HIGH. 
          SO THOSE, WE ARE LIMITED IN OUR ABILITY TO CONDITION PROJECTS BASED ON NEXUS AND PROPORTIONALITY. 
          AND, SORRY, GO AHEAD. 
          WELL, JUST PLAYING ON THAT SAME PETALUMA BOULEVARD EXAMPLE, WHEN WE MADE THE CONDITION REGARDING PARKING AND TREES, WHERE DOES THAT FIT? I WOULD IMAGINE IT WOULD BE SPECIAL. 
          UM, RIGHT. 
          AND I KNOW THAT WAS UNIQUE BECAUSE THE APPLICANT WAS THERE AGREEING TO IT, BUT WHERE DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS MATRIX? IT WOULD, IT WOULD JUST BE A SPECIAL CONDITION OF APPROVAL. 
          AND, AND, UH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU WERE, WE DO, WE DIDN'T QUESTION NEXUS FOR IT BECAUSE IT WAS ON THE PROJECT SITE. 
          UM, AND, AND IT WAS PART OF YOUR DISCRETIONARY ENVELOPE, I GUESS WE WOULD SAY. 
          SO IT WOULD'VE BEEN DIFFERENT IF YOU'D WANTED TO REQUIRE THOSE TREES OFFSITE, SAY, TO IMPROVE, IMPROVE THE, UH, THE VISUAL AESTHETIC OF THE INTERSECTION. 
          AND SO ON THE DENNY'S ACROSS THE STREET, YOU WANTED TO REQUIRE THAT THEY LANDSCAPE OR PLANT TREES, AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD NEXUS FOR THAT THEN. 
          AND I THINK THERE, WE COULD SAY, HEY, WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE OVER PARKING THERE. 
          WE WANT TO CONDITION TREES IN THOSE PARKING PLACES TO MINIMIZE ALL OF THE PARKING UNITS. 
          I THINK THAT'S HOW, UM, AND I THINK THAT WAS PRETTY WELL SPELLED OUT IN THE REC, UH, RECORD, UM MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND PROBABLY WE WOULD WANT TO THEN MAKE SURE THE RESOLUTION KIND OF EXPLICITLY SAYS, HEY, THIS CONDITION WAS ADDED TO ADDRESS THIS. 
          JUST SO IF IT DOES GET CHALLENGED ON A WRIT, THE COURT'S NOT MAKING ANY, UH, GUESSES. 
          AND, AND THEN JUST TO FOLLOW ON THAT, DID WE HAVE, I KNOW, UH, THERE'S KIND OF AN ISSUE THERE WHERE WE DON'T HAVE DESIGN OR, UM, REGULATIONS REGARDING PARKING, REALLY, THERE'S NO PARKING MAXIMUM. 
          SO WAS THERE A LIMIT, UH, NOT TO FALL TOO DOWN THIS RABBIT HOLE, BUT WAS THERE A LIMIT IN TERMS OF WHEN WE ENTERED THE TAKING SPHERE TO SAY, LOOK, WE'RE GONNA REQUIRE YOU TO ONLY DO THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF PARKING. 
          WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED NOT PROPORTIONAL, OR COULD 
          [01:20:01]
WE HAVE ASKED FOR THAT JUST IN THAT CHICK-FIL-A EXAMPLE? YEAH, AND IT'S SIMILAR TO THE ANSWER WITH THE VICE MAYOR. 
          IT'S REALLY A FACT SPECIFIC ANALYSIS. 
          WHAT, AND IT'S, IT WOULD BE A TOUGH ONE. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS CASE LAW OUT THERE THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, X AMOUNT OF PARKING THAT CONSTITUTES A TAKING. 
          UH, SO A RECOMMENDATION, IF YOU'RE EVER THINKING ABOUT MAKING A SPECIAL CONDITION BEFORE THE HEARING, LET ANDREW AND I KNOW SO WE CAN KIND OF LOOK THAT UP. 
          'CAUSE IT'S TOUGH TO DO ON THE DAES. 
          AND, UM, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. 
          IT'S EASY ON THAT WHEN THE APPLICANT IS WILLING TO ACCEPT THE CONDITIONS. 
          SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT TAKING IN ONE PROJECT MIGHT NOT BE THE SAME IN ANOTHER, EVEN IF THEY HAVE SIMILAR FORM AND FUNCTION? TOTALLY UHHUH AND, AND I WAS, I WAS, I WAS SMILING AFTER, WHEN, WHEN, UH, DYLAN WAS COMMENTING ON NEXUS BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NEVER FUN TO ADVISE A COMMISSION THAT THEY DON'T HAVE NEXUS, RIGHT. 
          , THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT A MESSAGE THAT'S ENJOYABLE TO DELIVER. 
          SO IT'S, UH, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND I THINK IT'S GREAT IF, IF YOU'RE FEELING LIKE YOU WANT TO ADD A SPECIAL CONDITION TO A PROJECT, UH, WORK THROUGH IT IN ADVANCE IF POSSIBLE, SO THAT WE CAN DO THAT ANALYSIS. 
          UM, PROPORTIONALITY, YOU'LL, YOU'LL OFTENTIMES SEE WHERE, UM, SAY NEW, NEW INFRASTRUCTURE IS REQUIRED, WHETHER THAT'S, UH, SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE, ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE, UH, SIGNALIZATION AND SO FORTH. 
          SO IF THERE'S NOT, IF THERE'S NOT A DIRECT NEXUS FOR A PROJECT TO REQUIRE INSTALLATION OF, SAY, A SIGNALIZATION AT AN INTERSECTION, PERHAPS THAT INTERSECTION IS, YOU KNOW, TWO BLOCKS DOWN THE STREET, BUT WE CAN TELL THROUGH THE TRAFFIC MODEL THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A, AN IMPACT TO, TO THAT INTERSECTION, THEN YOU MIGHT SEE WHAT WOULD BE CALLED A FAIR SHARE. 
          AND SO THE, THE, UH, SIGNALIZATION WOULD BE INSTALLED, BUT THE PROJECT WOULD PAY A FAIR SHARE CONTRIBUTION TO THAT. 
          UH, SIGNALIZATION, IT RECOGNIZES THAT THE PROJECT RESULTED IN, IN ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC CONGESTION, THAT THAT FACIL OR THAT, UM, CREATED THE NEED FOR THE SIGNALIZATION, BUT THAT THERE WASN'T THAT DIRECT IMMEDIATE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THEM. 
          AND SO SOMETIMES YOU'LL SEE THAT, I THINK, THOUGH, I FEEL LIKE, UM, THAT THAT WOULD MOST LIKELY HAPPEN IN, SAY, IF, IF WE SEE A SUBDIVISION THAT IS, IS REDEVELOPING AND INCREASING IN DENSITY WHERE WE'RE, UM, STARTING TO SEE A, A NEED FOR ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE, UM, IS WHERE WE MIGHT SEE THAT. 
          AND WE WOULD SEE IT ALSO IN, IN SEWER, YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF EXPANSION OF A, A SEWAGE FACILITY. 
          AND, AND THAT'S WHAT DEVELOPMENT FEES ARE REALLY RIGHT FOR THAT PURPOSE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          GREAT. 
          AND SO THEN FINDINGS, I THINK WE'VE TALKED, WE'VE HIT ON THAT, UM, FROM SEVERAL PERSPECTIVES THIS EVENING. 
          THE IDEA OF OF MAKING THE FINDINGS TO, FOR A SUBSTANTIAL DUE PROCESS TO ENSURE THAT YOU'RE NOT, UH, MAKING AN ARBITRARY DECISION, UM, BUT ALSO TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE DECISION THAT YOU ARE MAKING IS GROUNDED IN THE EVIDENCE AND, UH, AND IN THE REGULATIONS THAT ARE APPLICABLE. 
          ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS ON FINDINGS, THE FINDINGS SHOULD BE, THEY SHOULD BE BE DESCRIPTIVE AND SUPPORT THE DECISION. 
          YOU DON'T WANNA SEE WHAT'S, WHAT ARE CALLED NAKED FINDINGS, WHERE IT JUST SAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT JUST STATES THE FINDING TO BE MADE AND THEN GOES ON. 
          YOU ALWAYS WANT TO LOOK FOR THAT IN THAT, AND THEN THAT EX, THAT SPECIFIC EXPLANATION OF HOW THE EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD DEMONSTRATES COMPLIANCE OR HELPS YOU TO ACHIEVE THAT FINDING. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND JUST SAID ANOTHER WAY, UH, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, ALL OF OUR RESOLUTIONS SAY THIS APPLICATION, THIS SPAR APPLICATION, IT IS IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE GENERAL PLAN. 
          WE DON'T JUST SAY THAT CONCLUSORY SENTENCE, WE THEN EXPLAIN AND LIST ALL, UH, THE GENERAL PLAN POLICIES THAT THE APPLICATION DOES SUPPORT MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO, UH, LIKE ANDREW SAID, IT HELPS A REVIEWING BODY, A JUDGE DETERMINE WHY, UH, THOSE FINDINGS WERE MADE. 
          AND IT KIND OF JUST SHOWS MORE TRANSPARENCY TO THE PUBLIC, AND THAT WE ARE REVIEWING THE APPLICATIONS, TAKING 'EM SERIOUSLY. 
          SO WE'RE NOT JUST MAKING CONCLUSORY FINDINGS, UH, WE'RE EXPLAINING WHY THE FINDINGS ARE THERE. 
          GREAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, HERE'S SOME EXAMPLES OF FINDINGS FROM A, UH, FROM A RECENT, UM, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPROVAL. 
          AND SO THEN THE SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TEST. 
          YEAH, I CAN, LIKE THIS, UH, POWERPOINT SLIDE SAYS IT'S REALLY HIGHLY DEFERENTIAL, AND WE TALKED ABOUT IT EARLIER TOO, BUT IS THERE ENOUGH REC OR EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD WHERE A JUDGE COULD SAY, OKAY, I SEE WHY THE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS WENT THAT WAY. 
          REALLY, THE JUDGE, IT'S NOT HIS DUTY TO 
          [01:25:01]
REIGH THE EVIDENCE TO SECOND GUESS A LEGISLATIVE BODY IN REACHING THEIR DECISION. 
          SO IT'S, IS THERE ENOUGH EVIDENCE? UH, HE, I MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH IT, BUT DO I BELIEVE A REASONABLE PERSON COULD HAVE MADE THAT DECISION SO HIGHLY DEFERENTIAL, AND THAT WOULD BE WHAT ANY CITY COUNCIL LIKE APPLICATION, UH, SPAR FINDINGS WOULD BE REVIEWED AGAINST FOR A JUDGE AND THEN APPEALS. 
          SO A, SO A DECISION, UH, UH, TO APPROVE OR DENY CAN BE APPEALED BY ANY INTERESTED PARTY, UH, WITHIN 14 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THE DECISION. 
          AND THEN WE ALWAYS HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING FOR AN APPEAL. 
          UM, AND THEN AS I NOTED EARLIER, YOU DO HAVE TO EXHAUST ALL LOCAL APPEALS, UH, PRIOR TO ANY LITIGATION, AND THAT INCLUDES FOR C Q A. 
          UM, ONE THING THAT, THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS WHEN WE BRING FORWARD AN APPEAL, WE'LL, WE'LL GIVE YOU THE BACKGROUND OF THE DECISION THAT WAS MADE, AND THAT'S BEING APPEALED, BUT OUR ANALYSIS WILL BE VERY STRICTLY CONFINED TO THE GROUNDS FOR APPEAL. 
          SO IN OTHER WORDS, WE'RE NOT GOING BACK AND, AND REVIEWING THAT DECISION ALL OVER AGAIN. 
          IT'S NOT THAT SECOND BITE AT THE APPLE. 
          WE ARE LOOKING AT THOSE GROUNDS FOR APPEAL AND, AND, UH, OR NOT, WE, YOU ARE , YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THOSE GROUNDS FOR APPEAL THAT ARE STATED BY THE APPELLANT AND THEN MAKING THAT DETERMINATION. 
          ARE THERE GROUNDS TO UPHOLD THE APPEAL OR TO DENY THE APPEAL? I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ON THAT ONE. 
          SURE. 
          SO, UM, SO YOU HAVE THE 14 DAYS. 
          IS THERE A TIMEFRAME IN BETWEEN WHEN THE 14 DAYS AND WHEN THE APPEAL HAS TO COME BEFORE THE BODY? NO, NOT A, NOT A STATED TIMEFRAME. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, IT TYPICALLY, UH, MOST CODES ARE JUST GOING TO SAY, UM, AT, AT THE, AT THE EARLIEST AVAILABLE, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC HEARING OF, YOU KNOW, OR PUBLIC MEETING OF THE, THE APPEAL BODY. 
          SO THE CA THE CITY HAS THE DISCRETION. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANKS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , AND THEN C A, AND THIS IS WHERE I THINK WE'LL PROBABLY WANT TO, UH, GET SOME IDEAS FROM YOU ON WHAT, UH, A LATER S Q A WORKSHOP WOULD LOOK LIKE. 
          I'VE GOT, UH, YOU KNOW, MY COLLEAGUE OLIVIA IRVIN IS ALREADY PRIMED TO START WORKING ON THAT. 
          UM, BUT VERY QUICKLY, YOU KNOW, WE DETERMINE IS THERE A PROJECT BECAUSE C Q A DOES HAVE TO HAVE A PROJECT, AND IF SO, DOES THAT PROJECT REQUIRE A DISCRETIONARY DECISION? IF YES, THEN THE PROJECT IS SUBJECT TO ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW UNDER C Q A, UM, PURSUANT TO STATE LAW, ONCE WE GET THERE, THOUGH, THE C Q A HAS WELL ESTABLISHED STREAMLINING AND EXEMPTION TOOLS. 
          UM, SO YOU HAVE STATUTORY AND CATEGORICAL EXEMPTIONS THAT CAN BE APPLIED OR MAY BE APPLIED DEPENDING ON THE PROJECT CHARACTERISTICS. 
          AND, AND THEY'RE VERY UNIQUE BECAUSE A, A STATUTORY EXEMPTION, A CHALLENGE TO A STATU TO A PROJECT THAT IS SEEKING A STATUTORY EXEMPTION WOULD REQUIRE SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. 
          WHILE A, A CHALLENGE TO A PROJECT IS CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT, JUST REQUIRES A FAIR ARGUMENT, LEVEL OF EVIDENCE. 
          AND SO IT'S TWO DIFFERENT, UH, LEVELS OF EVIDENCE. 
          AND IT DOES BECOME VERY INTERESTING WHEN YOU DO LOOK AT, UM, WHAT THE CE Q A STRATEGY IS THAT A PROJECT MIGHT EMPLOY. 
          FOR INSTANCE, I, I HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, COLLEAGUES IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, UM, WHO WORK FOR ORGANIZATIONS THAT BASICALLY ASSUME THAT THEY'LL DO AN E I R FOR EACH, FOR EVERY ONE OF THEIR PROJECTS, NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT A CHALLENGE OR BECAUSE THEY'RE PARTICULARLY WORRIED ABOUT, UM, POTENTIALLY, UH, UH, UNAVOIDABLE IMPACTS, BUT SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT AN E I R IS GOING TO COST, THEY KNOW HOW LONG IT'S GOING TO TAKE REASONABLY, AND THEY CAN GAIN THAT CERTAINTY OF TIME AND COST ASSOCIATED WITH THEIR PROJECT REVIEW. 
          SO IT IS, IT IS, THAT'S A STRATEGY TO MANAGING S Q A FOR PROJECTS THAT, YOU KNOW, WILL REQUIRE C E Q A. 
          UM, TYPICALLY IF A PROJECT IS, UH, DOES QUALIFY FOR AN EXEMPTION, WE'RE LOOKING FIRST FOR THE STATUTORY EXEMPTION BECAUSE BOTH PLANNING AND THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WANT THE STRONGEST EXEMPTIONS POSSIBLE, WHICH WOULD BE YOUR STATUTORY EXEMPTIONS. 
          THEN SECOND, WE LOOK TO THE CATEGORICAL EXEMPTIONS. 
          UM, WITHIN THE CATEGORICAL EXEMPTIONS, THOUGH, THERE'S EXCEPTIONS TO THE EXEMPTION. 
          SO I ALWAYS TELL MY STAFF THAT, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, THE, THE CATEGORICAL EXEMPTION IS, IS NOT, IS NOT SAYING THAT NO REVIEW IS IS DONE. 
          WHAT IT'S SAYING IS THAT THE, THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE PROJECT ARE SUCH THAT 
          [01:30:01]
THERE'S LIMITED POTENTIAL FOR ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS, OR THOSE IMPACTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN MITIGATED. 
          SO, BUT YOU ALWAYS HAVE EXCEPTIONS TO THE EXEMPTIONS THAT YOU HAVE TO ANALYZE FOR. 
          SO EVEN WHEN WE PRESENT A PROJECT AND RECOMMEND, UM, A CATEGORICAL EXEMPTION FOR THAT PROJECT, WE'VE, WE'RE ALSO, WE'RE STILL DOING ANALYSIS TO ENSURE THAT THOSE EXCEPTIONS TO THE EXEMPTIONS RELATED TO AIR QUALITY, GREENHOUSE GASES, UM, UH, WETLANDS AND HISTORIC RESOURCES, AND THERE'S ONE OTHER THAT I ALWAYS MISS, BUT, UM, BUT THAT THEY'RE NOT APPLICABLE TO THE PROJECT THAT'S BEING REVIEWED. 
          UM, AND THEN THERE'S OTHERS, THERE'S OTHER STREAMLINING MEASURES. 
          SO THERE'S TIERING WHERE WE CAN TEAR OFF OF AN E I R THAT'S BEEN PREVIOUSLY PREPARED. 
          YOU CAN DO AN ADDENDUM TO AN E I R THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY CERTIFIED. 
          THERE'S A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT STRATEGIES AND, UM, THAT'S WHY WE THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE A SEPARATE WORKSHOP AND REALLY DRILL INTO SOME OF THOSE. 
          UM, BECAUSE THE, THE, UM, UNDERSTANDING S Q A CAN BE VERY, I FIND IT TO BE VERY INTERESTING. 
          UM, YOU KIND OF FEEL LIKE THERE'S NO END TO IT, BUT THAT'S PART OF THE FUN OF IT. 
          I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, UM, GETTING INTO THE TIERING AND ALSO, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS FOR, FOR A WORKSHOP ALSO, AS BEST AS WE CAN, OBJECTIVE THRESHOLDS, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S KIND OF THAT LESS THAN SIGNIFICANT, SIGNIFICANT, UH, WALKING THROUGH EXAMPLES OF THAT I THINK WOULD BE MUCH, MUCH APPRECIATED. 
          GREAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, RELATED TO THAT, I ALSO THINK, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT, UM, NEGATIVE DECKS, JUST BEING ABLE TO DRILL DOWN FASTER ON WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION SHOULD BE REALLY LOOKING AT IN A GIVEN MEETING. 
          AND I BRING THIS UP BECAUSE I WAS THINKING ABOUT, UH, SCOTT'S RANCH MM-HMM. 
           AND HOW MANY ITERATIONS OF THAT WE LOOKED AT HOW MANY VERSIONS OF THAT WE LOOKED AT. 
          I REMEMBER IN ONE CASE I WAS GOING THROUGH IT AND STAFF WAS VERY KIND TO POINT OUT THAT, OH, ACTUALLY NONE OF THAT IS RELEVANT ANYMORE. 
          WE'RE OVER HERE NOW. 
          SO BEING ABLE TO BREAK DOWN THE PARTS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN A GIVEN CIRCUMSTANCE, UM, FOR KIND OF OUR FUTURE MEETINGS, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. 
          KIND OF THE PIECEMEAL OF THESE DOCUMENTS. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          WE CAN TAKE CARE OF BOTH OF THOSE. 
          AND, AND I THINK TOO, ESPECIALLY AS PART OF THE OBJECTIVE THRESHOLDS, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE CONVERSATION ABOUT LEAD AGENCY VERSUS A RESPONSIBLE AGENCY AND SORT OF HOW WE RELY ON OTHER AGENCIES, WHETHER THEY'RE STATE LEVEL, YOU KNOW, UH, CALIFORNIA FISH AND WILDLIFE, OR THE REGIONAL WATER QUALITY CONTROL BOARD, YOU KNOW, UM, A VARIETY OF, OF REGULATORY AGENCIES, UM, IN THAT REVIEW PROCESS. 
          OH, AND ANOTHER, ANOTHER ELEMENT RELATED TO THIS, UH, WHAT, WHAT QUALIFIES FOR AN ACCEPTABLE MITIGATION. 
          WE'VE HAD THAT DEBATE SEVERAL TIMES IN OUR MEETINGS. 
          AND, AND ALSO KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHEN A MEDI A MITIGATION IS CONSIDERED, CONSIDERED MEETING A THRESHOLD, JUST BECAUSE IT'S GONNA BE GOING TO THE RELEVANT AGENCY TO WORK THROUGH THE WORK, THROUGH THE MITIGATION, VERSUS WHEN WE HAVE A MITIGATION THAT'S BEING HANDLED BY THE APPLICANT SPECIFICALLY. 
          GOT IT. 
          GREAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, EXCELLENT. 
          AND YOU CAN SEE OVER HERE, JUST THIS CHART, THIS UH, PROCESS FLOW CHART ON THE SIDE, JUST HOW MANY OPTIONS THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE GENERATED EACH, AT EACH STEP OF THE S Q A REVIEW PROCESS. 
          AND SO THEN THE TYPES OF SQUA DOCUMENTS, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE DO GO TO, UM, PRODUCING AN INITIAL STUDY AND THEN A SUBSEQUENT DOCUMENT, YOU KNOW, ARE WE LOOKING AT A NEGATIVE DECLARATION, MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION, ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT, ADDENDUM TO A CERTIFIED E I R, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT DOCUMENTS, UM, THAT ARE AVAILABLE THEN TO, TO, UH, UH, CAPTURE THE ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW PROCESS, ESTABLISH THOSE MITIGATIONS, AND THEN, UM, DIRECT COMPLIANCE. 
          AND I THINK TOO, IT'S A, IT'S, IM, IT'S ONE OF THE, THE THINGS THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE ABOUT CE Q A IS IT'S CONSTANTLY EVOLVING. 
          THERE'S ALWAYS CASE LAW, NEW CASE LAW THAT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, RESULTING IN CHANGES TO HOW SQL IS APPLIED, HOW, UM, YOU KNOW, MITIGATIONS ARE INTERPRETED AND SO FORTH. 
          JUST AS A ADMINISTRATIVE NOTE, IT WOULD BE GREAT WHEN WE DO HAVE THESE STUDIES, I, WE SEE THE STUDIES FEEDING IN HERE, BIOLOGY, HYDROLOGY, JUST TO MAKE SURE THOSE ARE ALL APPENDED, UH, TO THE, THE STAFF REPORT. 
          'CAUSE THERE'VE BEEN A NUMBER OF TIMES WHERE, ESPECIALLY BIOLOGICAL RESOURCES, OR I THINK ONE TIME IT WAS AN ARBORIST REPORT, I HAD TO HUNT IT DOWN AND THEY ARE AVAILABLE. 
          YOU CAN KIND OF JUST SEARCH IT AND FIND IT, UH, LIVING ON THE PETALUMA, UH, CITY WEBSITE 
          [01:35:01]
SOMEWHERE. 
          BUT IT'D BE GREAT. 
          JUST MAKE SURE THEY'RE ALWAYS IN THERE. 
          OKAY. 
          WE DO, WE DO SOMETIMES, UM, RUN INTO AN ISSUE OF JUST THE DOCUMENT SIZE AND WE HAVE TO LOCATE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE JUST SO THAT IT'S, IT'S MORE EASILY ACCESSED. 
          I THINK THAT'S HAPPENED AT LEAST TWICE THAT I CAN THINK OF. 
          BUT WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT WE DO A BETTER JOB OF DIRECTING TO THAT RESOURCE AND THEN THE BROWN ACT. 
          AND, UM, DYLAN'S GOING TO, UH, TAKE THE NEXT FEW SLIDES. 
          YEAH. 
          AND THIS IS HOPEFULLY FIVE MINUTE, REALLY BIG OVERVIEW. 
          HAPPY TO DO A REFRESHER IF WE WANT ANOTHER STUDY SESSION. 
          'CAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE DONE WITH SEVERAL OTHER COMMISSIONS IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, AND IT TAKES ABOUT A HALF HOUR TO DO IT THOROUGHLY. 
          UH, BUT THIS SLIDE IS REALLY THE ESSENTIAL KEY OF THE BROWN ACT. 
          I HIGHLIGHTED THE WORDS, MEETINGS, LEGISLATIVE, BODY, OPEN AND PUBLIC, AND THOSE ALL HAVE SPECIAL DEFINITIONS. 
          UH, LEGISLATIVE BODY, THAT'S CITY COUNCIL, THEIR SUBORDINATE BODIES OPEN AND PUBLIC. 
          THAT MEANS THAT THE AGENDA IS PUBLISHED AT LEAST 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE THAT IT IS READILY AVAILABLE. 
          THE CONTENTS OF THE AGENDA STAFF REPORTS FOR THE PUBLIC, THAT THE PUBLIC HAS THE ABILITY TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENTS. 
          AND THEN THE MEETINGS, THERE'S FOUR PRONGS TO THAT. 
          AND NEXT SLIDE, ANDREW, IF THAT'S OKAY. 
          UH, IT'S A MAJORITY OF THE BODY THAT'S A QUORUM PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          THERE'S SEVEN, A MAJORITY, IT WOULD BE FOUR, UH, COLLECTIVELY AT THE SAME PLACE AND TIME. 
          SO WITH TECHNOLOGY LIKE EMAILS AND CELL PHONES, THAT HAS REALLY EXPANDED WHERE COURTS HAVE FOUND THAT IF YOU, UH, SEND AN EMAIL AND FOUR MEMBERS OF THE, UH, QUORUM OF THE BODY IS ALL EMAILING EACH OTHER, WELL THAT IS CONSIDERED AT THE SAME PLACE, SAME TIME, EVEN IF THE COMMISSIONERS ARE EMAILING DAYS APART OR, UH, IN DIFFERENT STATES, COUNTRIES. 
          UH, SO BE CAREFUL THERE WITH NEW TECHNOLOGY. 
          UH, THE THIRD PRONG OF WHAT A MEETING IS, IT'S HEARING, DISCUSSING DELIBERATING WITHIN MATTERS OF THEIR SUBJECT MATTER JURISDICTION. 
          SO YOU ARE OKAY TO EMAIL EACH OTHER TO TALK ABOUT THE 49 ERS, UH, 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT WITHIN THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SPECIFIC PROJECTS, IF YOU GET TO QUORUM, THAT WOULD BE A MEETING AND WE WOULD NEED TO COMPLY WITH THE BROWN ACT. 
          AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW YOU WOULD PUBLISH AN EMAIL 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE, UH, ALLOW THE ABILITY OR THE PUBLIC THE ABILITY TO COMMENT. 
          SO PROBABLY A NO-NO. 
          I GUESS IN THAT HYPOTHETICAL, WE'D PROBABLY JUST PUT IT OUT THERE IN THE PUBLIC AND LET 'EM KNOW, HEY, THIS EMAIL EXISTED. 
          UH, APOLOGIES. 
          WE'LL TRY TO DO BETTER. 
          UM, MAYBE THE NEXT SLIDE, ANDREW, UH, REGARDING THE SAME PLACE AND SAME TIME PRONG, THERE'S THE CONCERN FOR SERIAL MEETINGS AND THERE'S TWO TYPES OF SERIAL MEETINGS. 
          THERE'S THE DAISY CHAIN, AND THAT IS WHAT THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. 
          BUT THAT IS COMMISSIONER A, EMAILING, COMMISSIONER B, COMMISSIONER B, EMAILING COMMISSIONER C, AND IN THAT EMAIL SAYING HOW COMMISSIONER A IS GONNA VOTE OR TALK ABOUT THE ITEM WITHIN THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION, CITY OR PLANNING COMMISSIONER C, THEN EMAILS PLANNING COMMISSIONER D WELL, YOU JUST REACHED FOUR PEOPLE. 
          THOSE EMAILS, SAME PLACE AND SAME TIME, THAT IS A SERIAL MEETING AND A VIOLATION OF THE BROWN ACT. 
          AND THEN THERE'S THE HUBCAP. 
          AND THAT'S THE SECOND PICTURE ON THE RIGHT WHERE COMMISSIONER A IS TALKING TO COMMISSIONER B, OR IT COULD EVEN BE TO ANDREW, BUT ANDREW WOULD NEVER DO THIS AND NEITHER WOULD YOU. 
          BUT HYPOTHETICALLY, COMMISSIONER A IS TALKING TO ANDREW. 
          ANDREW THEN TALKS TO COMMISSIONER B ABOUT HOW COMMISSIONER A IS GONNA VOTE. 
          AND THEN ANDREW TALKS TO COMMISSIONER C ABOUT HOW COMMISSIONER B IS GONNA VOTE. 
          PRETTY SOON YOU GET TO A QUORUM THAT WOULD BE AT THE SAME PLACE AND THE SAME TIME AND IN VIOLATION OF THE BROWN ACT. 
          UH, SO MY RECOMMENDATION, IF YOU, IF WE ARE SENDING EMAILS, WE ALWAYS B C C, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL BECAUSE IT'S PRETTY EASY TO JUST HIT REPLY ALL AND SAY, HEY, THAT'S GREAT. 
          OR WHAT ABOUT THIS? SO BCCING ON EMAILS KIND OF TAKES CARE OF THAT. 
          UH, NEXT SLIDE ANDREW. 
          UM, I WILL WORK WITH THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE AND THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OF GETTING, THERE'S BEEN TWO RECENT AMENDMENTS LAST YEAR TO THE BROWN ACT. 
          ONE IS IN REGARDS TO TELECONFERENCE MEETINGS. 
          THE OTHER IS REMOVAL OF DISRUPTIVE CITIZENS. 
          WE KIND OF HAVE A SCRIPT AND A PLAYBOOK, BUT WITH WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE COUNTY AND OTHER PUBLIC MEETINGS WITH A HATE SPEECH, IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA FOR ALL, UH, THE CHAIRS AND COMMISSIONERS AND COMMITTEES TO KNOW KIND OF A PLAYBOOK FOR IF THESE HAPPEN. 
          UM, BUT THIS ASSEMBLY BILL 2, 4, 9 9, IT RELAXES THE, 
          [01:40:01]
UH, ABILITY FOR PLANNING COMMISSIONERS OR LEGISLATIVE BODY MEMBERS TO APPEAR TELECONFERENCE LEAD. 
          SO UNDER THE BROWN ACT, IF YOU WANT TO APPEAR VIA TELECONFERENCE, YOU NEED TO POST THE AGENDA AT YOUR LOCATION. 
          THE AGENDA NEEDS TO SAY WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO BE AND YOU NEED TO ALLOW THE PUBLIC OPEN, UH, AND THE ABILITY TO ACCESS WHEREVER YOU'RE GOING TO BE. 
          SO IF YOU ARE, UH, TELECONFERENCING AT YOUR HOME, YOU NEED TO OPEN THAT FOR THE PUBLIC AND THEY CAN COME INTO YOUR HOME AND ATTEND THE MEETING. 
          UH, THAT WAS PRIOR TO C O V I D AND THIS AB 2, 4, 9 9, WHICH NOW SAYS IF THE LEGISLATIVE BODY MEMBER HAS A JUST CAUSE OR AN EMERGENCY AS DEFINED ON THE STATUTE, THEY ARE, OR STATUTE, THEY ARE ABLE TO, UH, APPEAR, TELECONFERENCE LEAVE. 
          UH, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO OPEN THE DOORS TO THE PUBLIC, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE AGENDA. 
          SO IT WOULD BE GREAT SO THAT, YOU KNOW, IN CASE IT HAPPENS, IF YOU'RE SICK, IF YOUR CHILDCARE, IF YOU NEED TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR MOM, YOUR CHILDCARE FALLS THROUGH THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO APPEAR VIA REMOTE. 
          SO WE WILL WORK ON THAT. 
          UM, ANDREW, WERE YOU GONNA SAY ANYTHING OR NO, AND THEN JUST YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION. 
          SURE. 
          UM, SO WHEN YOU HAVE A SERIAL MEETING, WHAT IS THE REMEDY? YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. 
          THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S AN ACTUAL MEETING. 
          UH, FOR BROWN ACT VIOLATION, LET'S SAY OUR AGENDA WASN'T SPECIFIC ENOUGH TO AN ACTUAL ITEM THAT WE DISCUSSED. 
          OR IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL DISCUSSES AN ITEM THAT WASN'T ON THE AGENDA, IT'S VERY EASY TO CURE THE BROWN ACT VIOLATION THERE. 
          'CAUSE THEN YOU JUST PUT THE ITEM BACK ON THE AGENDA FOR THE NEXT MEETING, UH, WITH A MORE EXPLICIT AGENDA OR EXPLICITLY SAYING WHAT THE TOPIC IS. 
          THAT WASN'T INCLUDED IN THE AGENDA, BUT FOR AN EMAIL, I DON'T KNOW. 
          UM, BUT I'M SURE OUR CITY ATTORNEY DOES. 
          SO I'LL TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT THAT ANSWER. 
          AND I'M JUST THINKING OF A REMEDY JUST IN GENERAL, BECAUSE MANY YEARS AGO THERE WAS A SERIAL MEETING AND IT WAS ABOUT LAFFERTY AND WHAT THEY ENDED UP DOING, THEY HAD TO BRING IT BACK AND PUT IT BACK ON THE AGENDA. 
          AND THEN THEY HAD TO RE I GUESS, REVOTE ON IT. 
          GOD, IT WAS SO MANY YEARS AGO. 
          YEAH. 
          AND IT'S EASY FOR THE ITEMS WHERE THERE ACTUALLY IS A DETERMINATION. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT IF IT IS JUST LIKE AN EMAIL OUT THERE, OKAY. 
          AND MAYBE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S COMING IN, YOU HAVEN'T REACHED A DECISION. 
          I GUESS MAYBE THE REMEDY WOULD BE IS POSTING THAT EMAIL AS AN AGENDA ITEM AND THEN YOU ALLOW THE, UH, PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON THAT, UH, EMAIL, I GUESS, BUT OKAY. 
          YEAH, THAT'S, NO, I MEAN IT'S COMPLICATED, BUT MM-HMM. 
          , BUT THERE IS A REMEDY AT THE END. 
          I WOULD THINK SO. 
          I WOULD HOPE SO. 
          YEAH. 
          AND IT MIGHT JUST BE A SLAP ON YOUR WRIST. 
          ACTUALLY, THE REMEDY FOR THAT WAS WE SAVED THE WATER RIGHTS AT LAFFERTY RANCH. 
          OH, AT THE STATE LEVEL, YEAH. 
          IS WHAT WE DID. 
          GOOD RESULT THERE THEN. 
          NO. 
          SO IT WAS A REALLY GOOD RESULT. 
          BUT IT'S INTERESTING JUST HOW THEY HAD TO DO THE, THE WHOLE REMEDY. 
          UM, BUT AGAIN, IT WAS SO LONG AGO, BUT IT WAS, BUT NOW WE HAVE EMAILS, WHICH OF COURSE WE DIDN'T. 
          RIGHT. 
          YOU KNOW, 30, YOU KNOW, 25 YEARS AGO, WHAT, WHAT 30 YEARS AGO? TEXT MESSAGES. 
          IT'S THE SAME. 
          YEAH. 
          NONE OF THAT WAS, YEAH. 
          AVAILABLE CHAIR. 
          DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? IT WASN'T A QUESTION. 
          I JUST WANTED TO NOTE ON WITH REGARDS TO THE HYBRID MEETINGS AND REQUIRE THAT PIVOT TO REQUIRING PEOPLE TO HAVE OPEN NOTICE DURING THE STATE REDISTRICTING PROCESS. 
          WHEN THE GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY ORDERS WENT AWAY WITH THAT, IT WAS THE BAGLEY KEEN ISSUE OF HAVING, NOTICING TWO OF THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSIONERS DID NOT WANT TO GO BACK TO IN PERSON. 
          HMM. 
          SO THEY TURNED THEIR HOMES INTO PUBLICLY NOTICED PLATE, LITERALLY FOLLOWING THE LAW. 
          I KID YOU NOT TWO HOURS INTO THE MEETING. 
          'CAUSE MOST OF IT WAS STILL OVER ZOOM. 
          THEY HAD MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC KNOCK ON THE DOOR AND LITERALLY HAD TO INVITE THEM IN DURING THAT PROCESS. 
          SO I'M GLAD THEY'VE FINALLY AMENDED THE LAW FOR SOME EXEMPTIONS. 
          AND YEAH, IT'S A LITTLE BIT ONEROUS 'CAUSE FOR LIKE, JUST CAUSE YOU HAVE TO SAY, UH, WHAT YOUR ILLNESS IS AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR CAMERA ON AT ALL TIMES. 
          I WOULD THINK IT'D BE PROBABLY OKAY IF YOU, UH, WENT TO THE BATHROOM. 
          BUT ALSO BEFORE EVERY ITEM YOU VOTE, YOU NEED TO SAY WHO OVER THE AGE OF 18 IS IN YOUR ROOM WITH YOU. 
          JUST SO THAT THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT MAYBE YOU ARE LISTENING TO SOMEBODY, THEY HAVE YOUR EAR, THEY'RE OFF SCREEN. 
          UH, SO IT, IT'S KIND OF ONEROUS WHERE YOU'D HAVE TO SAY, HEY, MY SPOUSE IS HERE WITH ME. 
          SHE HASN'T BEEN TELLING ME HOW TO VOTE. 
          OR, UH, SHE DOESN'T HAVE MY EAR. 
          BUT, UH, ALSO WITH THE AB 2, 4, 9, 9, I THINK YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED TWO JUST CAUSES AND TWO EMERGENCIES A YEAR. 
          UH, SO IT'S NOT THE BEST REMEDY, BUT IT IS BETTER THAN THIS SITUATION THE CHAIR JUST SAID. 
          SO, YEAH. 
          AND THEN JUST, 
          [01:45:01]
YOU CAN'T, UH, UNDER THE BROWN ACT VIOLATION, IT WOULD BE A VIOLATION TO TALK ABOUT ITEMS THAT AREN'T ON THE AGENDA. 
          WE TALKED ABOUT IF WE DO, YOU WOULD JUST CURE IT AT THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM. 
          BUT THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO EVERY RULE. 
          AND THAT'S THE NEXT SLIDE. 
          SO BRIEF RESPONSES, CLARIFICATIONS, AND THIS TYPICALLY OCCURS EITHER AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION COMMENTS OR STAFF COMMENTS WHERE A PLANNING COMMISSIONER SAYS, HEY, THERE'S A GREAT EVENT, A PARADE HAPPENING AT THIS DATE. 
          AND, UH, THEN, OR ANDREW MIGHT SAY, HEY, WE'RE DOING X, Y, AND Z. 
          IT'S OKAY TO FOLLOW UP WITH, WELL, CAN YOU PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION WHERE IT'S THE LOCATION? UH, BUT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE IT GETS INTO A DISCUSSION AND THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD NEED TO AGENDIZE. 
          BUT, UH, IF THAT EVER OCCURS, I'LL LET YOU KNOW THAT WE'RE GETTING CLOSE AND WE MIGHT JUST WANT TO CUT THAT OFF. 
          SO THOSE ARE KIND OF THE EXCEPTIONS TO NOT BEING ON THE AGENDA. 
          UH, AND THEN I GUESS JUST PUBLIC RECORDS ACTS. 
          I THINK YOU'VE RECEIVED A COUPLE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT REQUESTS, BUT, UH, WHERE OUR CITY CLERK WILL SAY, HEY, WE RECEIVED THIS PUBLIC RECORD DOC REQUEST. 
          PLEASE REVIEW YOUR EMAILS FOR RECORDS RELATING WHATEVER IS RESPONSIVE TO THE REQUEST. 
          UM, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU USE YOUR OWN PRIVATE CELL PHONES OR PRIVATE EMAIL. 
          UH, IF IT IS RELATED TO THE CITY BUSINESS, THAT CONSTITUTES A PUBLIC RECORD. 
          SO, AND YOU ALSO, AS PLANNING COMMISSIONERS, A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC COULD SAY, HEY, COMMISSIONER, UH, WHATEVER X I WOULD LIKE ALL YOUR EMAILS REGARDING THIS APPLICATION. 
          IF THAT OCCURS, LET ME LET ANDREW KNOW. 
          WE'LL LET THE CITY CLERK KNOW AND THEN WE CAN HANDLE IT FROM THERE. 
          'CAUSE IT IS SORT OF A TIMING WHAT THE RESPONSES ARE, UH, WHAT THE EXEMPTIONS ARE. 
          BUT WE'RE HAPPY TO HELP YOU WITH THERE. 
          UM, AND THEN NEXT SLIDE. 
          UH, THIS IS THE LAST SLIDE, I BELIEVE. 
          UH, CONFLICTS OF INTEREST. 
          THIS GOES INTO THE NEUTRAL ARBITRATOR MAKING DECISIONS. 
          UH, YOU ARE NOT AS PLANNING COMMISSIONERS ABLE TO, UH, MAKE DECISIONS WHERE YOU HAVE A MATERIAL FINANCIAL INTEREST IN IT. 
          AND IF YOU DO, YOU WOULD JUST NEED TO RECUSE YOURSELF. 
          AND THE REASONING THERE IS YOU ARE FIDUCIARIES FOR THE CITY AND THE CITY AND THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE MAKING DECISIONS ON WHAT YOU FEEL IS THE BEST INTEREST FOR THE PUBLIC AND NOT YOUR PECUNIARY GAIN. 
          UH, SO THE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST LAWS ARE PRETTY TOUGH. 
          THERE'S ABOUT THREE OR FOUR OF 'EM. 
          IT'S A PRETTY FACT EXTENSIVE ANALYSIS. 
          BUT REALLY IF YOU, IF THE APPLICANT, IF YOU'RE LIKE, LET'S SAY COCA-COLA OR AMY'S KITCHEN, THEY CAME IN HERE. 
          IF YOU ARE INVESTED WITH AMY'S KITCHEN, UH, MORE THAN $2,000 IN STOCKS, YOU WOULD NEED TO RECUSE YOURSELF. 
          IF YOU HAVE REAL PROPERTY WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF THE APPLICATION, LET US KNOW. 
          THERE'S SORT OF A FACTOR ANALYSIS WE NEED TO GO THROUGH. 
          ANDREW URIEL, UH, THE PLANNERS, WE'RE ALL LOOKING, WE HAVE THE MAPS OF YOUR HOMES, ALL THE REAL PROPERTIES YOU OWN, AND WE ARE ABLE TO SEE IF YOU, THE APPLICATION IS WITHIN A CERTAIN FEE. 
          UH, THE OTHER FINANCIAL INTERESTS. 
          IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED $500 OR MORE IN THE LAST YEAR FROM THE APPLICANT, OR IF YOU'VE RECEIVED A GIFT, AND I THINK IT'S A GIFT OF LIKE $590. 
          SO THOSE ARE THE CONFLICTS. 
          IF YOU ARE SEE AN APPLICATION, UH, THAT'S COMING UP IN THE NEAR FUTURE AND YOU SAY, OH, I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE OPTICS OF THIS, THIS IS KIND OF RAISING MY SPIDER SENSES, LET US KNOW. 
          I MEAN, THE WORST CASE IS YOU JUST HAVE TO RECUSE YOURSELF. 
          FEEL FREE TO BLAME IT ON THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE THAT THEY'RE RECOMMENDING IT. 
          AND THEN YOU CAN SIT OUT FOR THAT ITEM. 
          SO THAT'S REALLY, YEAH. 
          I HAVE A QUESTION ON THIS, PLEASE. 
          SO IF IT'S KIND OF ARBITRARY 300, 500 TO A THOUSAND, SO ALL OF A SUDDEN I HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST 'CAUSE YOU'RE USING THE 500 NUMBER YET 300 IS ACCEPTABLE. 
          SO WHY WOULD I BE CONFLICTED OUT? YEAH. 
          SO THE 300 FEET, THAT'S FOR NOTICING JUST TO GET THE PUBLIC INVOLVED. 
          AND SO THEY'RE, UH, CAN ATTEND THOSE MEETINGS, GET THEIR PUBLIC COMMENTS. 
          THE 500 FEET THOUGH IS A DIFFERENT LAW. 
          IT IS WHAT THE POLITICAL REFORM ACT. 
          OKAY. 
          AND IT'S REGARDING CONFLICTS AND JUST REAL BASE, UH, QUICK, THERE IS REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION THAT IF YOU ARE WITHIN 500 FEET OF A CERTAIN APPLICATION DECISION, UH, THAT YOU DO HAVE A MATERIAL FINANCIAL INTEREST, 500 TO A THOUSAND FEET. 
          THERE'S FACTORS LIKE WHAT DOES THE DECISION DO TO MY USES? DOES IT INCREASE MY PROPERTY OR DECREASE MY PROPERTY VALUE? WILL IT ALLOW MORE PARKING MORE, WILL IT AFFECT NOISE VIEW? UH, SO THAT'S WITHIN 500 A THOUSAND FEET. 
          AND THAT'S REALLY THE FACT INTENSIVE ANALYSIS. 
          UH, ANYTHING ABOVE A THOUSAND FEET, THERE'S REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION 
          [01:50:01]
THAT THERE IS NO MATERIAL FINANCIAL INTEREST. 
          AND WHO DOES WHAT DOES DETERMINE DETERMINED FINANCIAL INTEREST? THAT IF YOU'RE RENTING YOU'RE NOT SO, BUT IF YOU OWN A HOME OR, YEAH, SO WHAT IS IT? THERE IS, UH, IT WOULD BE A PROPERTY INTEREST AND HOW THE STATUTE DEFINES PROPERTY INTEREST. 
          IT EXEMPTS MONTH TO MONTH. 
          UH, SO IF YOU HAVE A MONTH-TO-MONTH LEASE, YOU DO NOT HAVE A PROPERTY INTEREST. 
          UH, SO YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A CONFLICTING INTEREST BASED ON REAL PROPERTY. 
          BUT ANYTHING MORE THAN A MONTH TO MONTH, THERE IS A DIFFERENT ANALYSIS FOR LEASES. 
          UM, AND I THINK IT IS, AND I NEED TO LOOK IT UP, BUT IS DOES IT AFFECT THE, UH, THE DOLLAR AMOUNT FOR YOUR LEASE? DOES IT CHANGE POTENTIALLY THE AMOUNT OF USES THAT YOU COULD DO ON YOUR LEASE? DOES IT IMPACT THE LEASE DURATION TERMINATION DATE? SO THAT'S KIND OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LEASES WHERE IF YOU OWN THE PROPERTY, IT LOOKS INTO FACTORS LIKE HOW DOES THIS DECISION AFFECT MY NOISE PARKING VIEW, UH, PROPERTY VALUE, YEAH. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND THAT'S IT FOR ME, ANDREW. 
          ALL RIGHT, GREAT. 
          WELL, AND THAT'S IT FOR ME AS WELL. 
          SO, UM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION THIS EVENING AND QUESTIONS. 
          AND I THINK, UM, SURE. 
          COMMISSIONER MCCARREN, I HAD A QUESTION. 
          UM, IT MIGHT BE MY LACK OF, UH, KNOWLEDGE, BUT WHEN A PROJECT COME THROUGH THE, THE SEQUENTIAL PROCESS OF CONCEPT REVIEW, UM, SITE PLAN REVIEW, UM, AND THEN SPAR, IT, IT, AT LEAST ON A COUPLE PROJECTS THAT HAVE COME TRUE HERE, IT SEEMS LIKE WE, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO SET DESIGN STANDARDS AT SITE PLAN REVIEW IN TERMS OF DIMENSIONS FOR PARKWAYS OR LANDSCAPE STANDARDS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 
          BUT ONCE IT, ONCE IT REACHES NEXT PLATEAU, THEY HAVE 450 UNITS AND THEY HAVE USED UP THE SPACE. 
          SO YOU'RE NEGOTIATING POWER TO GET ANYTHING THAT'S NOT THERE. 
          SO IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A GAP IN TERMS OF, OF MAKING SURE THAT THE, THE DESIGN QUALITY INTENT IS PART OF THE SITE PLAN BEFORE IT GOES TO SPAR SO THAT YOU CAN REINFORCE IT IN SPAR AS OPPOSED TO NOT HAVING ANY LEVERAGE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , IS THAT ACCURATE? I, I THINK THAT'S A FAIR DESCRIPTION OF THE ISSUE. 
          YEAH. 
          SO WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT THAT? 'CAUSE IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT WITHOUT, IF, IF A GUY HAS FOUR 50 UNITS, HE'S NOT GONNA LOSE A UNIT TO ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING. 
          MM-HMM. 
           THAT COMES LATER. 
          SO IT SEEMS LIKE IT REALLY DON'T HAVE DESIGN QUALITY ABILITY. 
          UH, AND WE SHOULD HAVE THAT'S, I'LL HAVE TO THINK ON THAT. 
          THAT'S A, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. 
          UM, I DON'T KNOW IF IF, UM, COMMISSIONER BAUER, IF YOU'VE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH THAT OR, OR ANY OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS IN SOME OF OUR OTHER PROJECTS, MAYBE I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WAS THE TIME TO MM-HMM. 
           TO UM, UH, DEAL WITH THAT. 
          I GUESS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A TIME AND A PLACE FOR THAT AND, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT THAT CHANGED, I THINK WE NEED TO BRING IT UP, YOU KNOW, AND, AND SAY WE WANNA HAVE THOSE TYPES OF STANDARDS LOOKED AT AND MAYBE TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT SETTING ANOTHER MEETING TO REVIEW THOSE LIKE WE'RE DOING WITH THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. 
          I DON'T THINK THOSE, YOU KNOW, ARE OFTEN, UM, IT'S, IT'S NOT THE TIME WHEN WE'RE REVIEWING SPAR TO MM-HMM. 
           TO DEAL WITH THE, THE STANDARDS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SET PREVIOUSLY. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          IF WE WANNA CHANGE THOSE, THEN WE NEED TO, TO ASK TO DO THAT FOR FUTURE MEETINGS. 
          YOU UNDERSTAND MY POINT THOUGH, ONCE, ONCE YOU HAVE THE UNITS, AND IF, IF WE SAY WE WANT FIVE FEET FOR A PARKWAY, FIVE FEET, FOUR TIMES IN DIFFERENT ROWS, IT TAKES A HALF A UNIT OUT, THE, THE APPLICANT IS NOT WILLING TO LOSE THAT UNIT. 
          SO YOU HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACHIEVE THAT STANDARD. 
          IT SEEMS LIKE THE APPLICANT SHOULD KNOW ABOUT IT BEFORE HE DOES HIS FINAL SITE PLANS TO ACCOMMODATE THE DESIRE OF, YOU KNOW, OF THE, OF THE COMMITTEES. 
          I KNOW SOME CITIES, AND I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS EVEN GETS AROUND THIS ISSUE WHEN THEY SEPARATE THE TWO FUNCTIONS WHERE SOME CITIES HAVE PLANNING AND THEN OTHER CITIES HAVE BUILDING, UH, COMMISSIONS. 
          AM I CORRECT ON THAT? I KNOW THAT SOME CITIES SEPARATE, IT'S CALLED A DESIGN REVIEW BOARD. 
          DESIGN REVIEW BOARD. 
          EXACTLY. 
          UM, SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT WOULD GET AROUND THAT ISSUE. 
          'CAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU GET ZONING AND HAVE A SITE MAP AND THEN YOU MOVE TO SPAR AND SUDDENLY YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOCKED INTO. 
          IF I CAN, IF I CAN CLARIFY THOUGH, PETALUMA HAD A DESIGN REVIEW BOARD, AND I WON'T GO INTO THE POLITICS OF IT, BUT 
          [01:55:01]
THERE IS A REASON IT GOT, IT MERGED IT WITH PLANNING SO IT DIDN'T GET RID OF IT. 
          IT'S ACTUALLY PART OF OUR FUNCTION. 
          THE THING I WAS GOING TO CITE, 'CAUSE I DON'T WANT US TO SPIRAL INTO WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD HAVE ANOTHER COMMISSION OR NOT. 
          UH, WE, SO WE LOOKED, WE TOOK A LOOK AT, WAS IT RIVERFRONT WHERE WE HAD THEM COME BACK MM-HMM. 
          , LOOK AT THOSE AREA MAPS AGAIN. 
          WE HAD HAD THAT ROUGH MEETING WITH THEM, SO THEY CAME BACK AND DID THAT AGAIN. 
          THAT'S KIND OF THE CLOSEST WE'VE COME BACK TO DOING A MORE TRADITIONAL DESIGN REVIEW MEETING. 
          IT'S KIND OF BEEN A FUNCTION THAT MY ENTIRE TIME. 
          I MEAN, GOING BACK TO YOUR POINT, IT HASN'T BEEN THE TIME TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS BEEN FOR A PROJECT THAT'S BEEN YEARS IN DEVELOPMENT AND WE'RE COMING BACK LATER TO IT AND THEN WE'RE NOT REALLY ABLE TO DISCUSS THAT. 
          BUT WE ARE MISSING THIS STEP. 
          UM, ONE THING I WOULD ASK, WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE ANOTHER MEETING OR A WORKSHOP TO ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT LOOKING AT HOW WE IMPLEMENT THAT MORE INTO OUR ONGOING PROCESS. 
          BECAUSE TECHNICALLY WE MERGED DESIGN REVIEW WITH PLANNING, BUT WE NEVER REALLY WORKED OUT THE DESIGN REVIEW PORTION OF THAT. 
          WE'VE ONLY BEEN DOING THE RESPONSIVE PLANNING PORTION TO THAT. 
          AND I'M SURE STAFF HAS A LOT OF THOUGHTS ON HOW WE COULD REALLY START TO MAKE THAT EXPLICIT. 
          BUT IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT SOMETHING WE SHOULD HIDE UNDER THE RUG. 
          BUT IT'S ALSO NOT SOMETHING, I KNOW I'VE BEEN DINGED FOR THIS IN THE PAST. 
          I WOULD DIG INTO, HEY, BUT WHY IS IT THAT STANDARD? AND THEN I'D HAVE FIVE OTHER PEOPLE QUIETLY TELL ME, BLAKE, THIS IS NOT THE TIME. 
          SO, WHICH I WOULD UNDERSTAND, AND I'M SURE THERE'S MORE THAN A FEW DEVELOPERS WHO ARE RED IN THE FACE WITH MY QUESTIONS BECAUSE OF IT. 
          IF WE COULD HAVE A WORKSHOP TO DISCUSS THAT GAP, I THINK IT'LL BE IMPORTANT. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          IT, IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT, I JUST WANNA FLAG, AND I KNOW THIS SEEMS KIND OF NOT DIRECTLY RELATED BECAUSE ASSUMING SB 4 23 PASSES, THERE'S CHANGES IN THAT LAW COMPARED TO SSB 35 THAT ACTUALLY DO TALK ABOUT DESIGN REVIEW. 
          SO BEING EXPLICIT ABOUT OUR DESIGN REVIEW, UH, ROLES MM-HMM. 
           IS GONNA BE IMPORTANT FOR US KEEPING WHAT LITTLE AUTHORITY WE HAVE IN THAT PROCESS. 
          WELL, AND UH, FOLLOWING, UH, WITH THAT, UM, THERE'S DISCUSSION ABOUT DESIGN REVIEW IN GENERAL MM-HMM. 
          , UM, AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'LL BE AN INTERESTING TOPIC. 
          I THINK THAT'S COMING BEFORE THE COUNCIL, I'M NOT SURE. 
          IS THAT CORRECT, ANDREW? THE DESIGN REVIEW, AREN'T WE LOOKING AT OBJECTIVE DESIGN, DESIGN OBJECTIVE DESIGNS? OH, I THINK IT'S COMING TO US. 
          I TOTALLY, IT'S COMING TO US FIRST. 
          IT'LL, IT'LL COME TO COMING TO US FIRST, RIGHT? MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SURE. 
          YEAH. 
          I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH SOMEBODY ABOUT THAT TODAY AND IT'S REALLY INTERESTING. 
          A LOT OF IT IS, UM, SOMEBODY'S WHAT THEY LIKE OR YOU KNOW MM-HMM. 
           WHAT THEY THINK SHOULD BE IN A, IN AN AREA MM-HMM. 
           AND, YOU KNOW, NOT, UM, IT'S GONNA BE COMPLICATED, BUT I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT DISCUSSION. 
          OH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS ARE OF DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS IS THAT THEY WOULD ONLY APPLY TO QUALIFYING RESIDENTIAL PROJECTS. 
          SO WE STILL ARE GOING TO EXPERIENCE THE ISSUE WITH MARKET RATE DISCRETIONARY PROJECTS, THE, THE ISSUE THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING. 
          UM, BUT YEAH, I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD. 
          I WANT TO DO A BIT MORE RESEARCH. 
          'CAUSE I'M THINKING, ESPECIALLY AS IT'S RELATED TO, TO STREET DESIGN, TO WHAT EXTENT THE, THE CITY ENGINEER DESIGN MANUALS IMPACT WHAT LATITUDE WE HAVE TO EXPAND, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THOSE STREET CROSS SECTIONS AND MANIPULATE THEM WOULD BE INTERESTING TO, TO EXPLORE AS WELL. 
          SO WE'LL WORK ON THAT AND THEN COME, UH, COME BACK WITH ANOTHER WORKSHOP. 
          AND CAN WE AS A, 'CAUSE GOING BACK TO YOUR POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FOR THE DISCRETIONARY PROCESS, LIKE WE'RE GONNA GET THROUGH OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS AND AS IT WILL BE AN INTERESTING AND PROBABLY COMPLICATED IF NOT HEATED PROCESS AS WE GET THROUGH IT ALL. 
          BUT EVEN IF WE GET TO THE PRISTINE VERSION OF THAT, AND THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT DISCRETIONARY AND WE'RE KIND OF LOOKING AT THIS DESIGN GAP, CAN WE ACTUALLY LOOK AT STANDARDS THAT AS OPPOSED TO THE KIND OF STREET DESIGN STANDARDS IMPACTING US, CAN WE DIRECTLY GOING BACK TO WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE A LEGISLATIVE BODY OR NOT, CAN WE DIRECTLY MAKE POLICY WITH REGARDS TO WHAT THOSE STANDARDS LOOK LIKE? OR AT LEAST RECOMMEND POLICY TO THE COUNCIL FOR WHAT THOSE STANDARDS LOOK LIKE SO THAT WE CAN START TO ADDRESS MORE STANDARDIZATION OF OUR DISCRETIONARY, OF THE DISCRETIONARY SIDE OF THE STREET? SURE. 
          I THINK, I THINK TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, YOUR STREET DESIGN, IF, IF I'M CORRECT, IS GUIDED BY THE CITY'S, OH, I, I MEANT ACROSS THE BOARD, I MEANT I SAID STREET EUPHEMISTICALLY, BUT I, I MEANT DESIGN STANDARDS WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT, OH, JUST GENERALLY THE VARIOUS MM-HMM. 
          , THE VARIOUS APPLICABLE MANUALS THAT THEY'RE WORKING OFF OF. 
          'CAUSE I KNOW THIS CAME UP A LOT IN P BACK WITH DIFFERENT THINGS, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO YEAH, I 
          [02:00:01]
KNOW THAT THEY'RE WORKING, ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO BIKE INFRASTRUCTURE AND PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE. 
          THEY'RE TRYING TO MORE CLEARLY ARTICULATE THOSE STANDARDS AND, AND, UM, BRING THEM CURRENT WITH BOTH, UH, BEST PRACTICES AS WELL AS WHAT'S DESIRED. 
          UH, BUT WE CAN, WE CAN LOOK ACROSS THAT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE'S AN INTERRELATIONSHIP BETWEEN, UH, THOSE STANDARDS AND, AND THE WORK THAT WE DO, UM, WITH REGARD TO LAND DEVELOPMENT, SO. 
          SURE. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, THE, THE OTHER THING I JUST WANNA DO A QUICK WRAP UP. 
          I THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR ME, WHEN, WHEN, AND, AND I REALLY ENJOY THESE, THESE SORTS OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S NOT ARBITRARY. 
          I THINK IT'S, WE SAW THIS EVENING IT'S REALLY DIRECTED AND, AND, UM, EXPLICITLY REQUIRED BY A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT LAWS AT THE, AT THE STATE LEVEL, AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, YOU KNOW, AND, AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S ONE THING TO ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND. 
          WHILE IT MAY SEEM ARBITRARY TO, TO SOMEBODY WHO'S NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE REVIEW PROCESS, IN FACT, WE ARE VERY MUCH GUIDED AND DIRECTED BY, UM, EXISTING LAWS, SOME OF THOSE GOING ALL THE WAY UP TO THE CONSTITUTION IN THE CASE OF DUE PROCESS. 
          UM, AND SO THEN WITH REGARD TO THAT, THEN ALL PROPONENTS HAVE THE RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS AND, AND WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE DELIVERING THAT RIGHT TO DO PROCESS FULLY. 
          BUT THEN AS WE DELVE INTO THEN THE DISCRETIONARY PROCESS, WE ARE LOOKING AT MODIFYING THAT BUNDLE OF PROPERTY RIGHTS. 
          AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THAT'S A PRETTY SERIOUS PROPOSITION THAT'S BEING BROUGHT BEFORE YOU AND, AND THE LONG-TERM IMPACTS OF THAT. 
          SO I THINK THOSE ARE THE, THE, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THESE TOPICS, UM, THE SORT OF TAKEAWAYS THAT I ALWAYS REMIND MYSELF THAT, YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT, THERE'S A LOT MORE BEHIND WHAT WE DO THAT'S UNSEEN, BUT DEFINITELY NEEDS TO, TO COME TO BEAR AND, AND, UH, IS PART OF THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS. 
          SO WE'RE ALWAYS AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS, FOR, FOR, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDATIONS ON ADDITIONAL RESOURCES AND SUCH. 
          SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. 
          AND CHAIR BACK TO YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND THANK YOU BOTH FOR SITTING THROUGH QUITE A FEW QUESTIONS FROM US. 
          I JUST WANTED TO ASK, DID ANYONE HAVE A, A FINAL COMMENT OR QUESTION THEY WANTED TO MAKE BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM, JUST ONE. 
          AND I, AND I DON'T WANNA TAKE US OFF COURSE OR SPEND TOO MUCH TIME, BUT IT'S MORE OF A, A QUESTION I MAY FOLLOW UP WITH ANDREW AND DYLAN IS UNDERSTANDING PUBLIC INPUT INTO THIS PROCESS. 
          'CAUSE WE WENT THROUGH A VERY STRUCTURED DECISION MAKING PROCESS. 
          UM, AND OBVIOUSLY WHEN YOU GET PUBLIC INPUT, THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS FALLING INTO THAT STRUCTURE. 
          SO HOW DO WE INTEGRATE THAT INTO OUR FINDINGS? AND THEN I'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE AND, AND I MEAN, I THINK THE GENERAL PUBLIC THINKS WE AS PUBLIC REPRESENTATIVES NEED TO BE BASICALLY, UH, SERVING THEIR NEEDS AND, AND THEIR BEING RESPONSIVE TO WHAT THEY'RE PUTTING FORWARD. 
          UH, SO IT'S HOW BEST TO DO THAT. 
          AND CAN YOU MAKE FINDINGS? I'VE HEARD PEOPLE TELL ME THIS, UH, FINDINGS BASED ON PUBLIC OUTCRY I THINK IS ONE OF THE SPECIFIC TERMS, UH, BUT REALLY KIND OF OUR INTERFACE WITH THE PUBLIC AND HOW THAT ACTUALLY CAN FLOW INTO OUR DECISION MAKING. 
          YEAH. 
          SO AS ONE OF THE RECITALS, IT'S TYPICALLY ONE OF OUR LAST RECITALS FOR EVERY RESOLUTION ORDINANCE. 
          IT SAYS PLANNING COMMISSION, CONSIDERED ALL THE COMMENTS BE THEIR ORAL WRITTEN AS PART OF THEIR DECISION. 
          UH, SO THAT'S THE LAST RECITAL. 
          AND THEN TYPICALLY OUR FIRST FINDING IN OUR RESOLVES OR THE ACTION SECTION OF THE RESOLUTIONS, IT SAYS, AND ALL OF THE RECITALS ABOVE ARE DECLARED TO BE TRUE AND ACCURATE AND ARE REFLECTED AS, UH, FINDINGS THAT ARE INCORPORATED. 
          SO IT DOES SAY, HEY, WE LISTENED TO THE PUBLIC AND THAT WAS PART OF OUR DECISION HERE. 
          UM, BUT I THINK YOU ARE ABLE TO MAKE, YOU KNOW, RECENTLY WE, LAST YEAR OR TWO YEARS AGO, WE AMENDED OUR SPAR TO REALLY TAKE A, UH, LOOK AT ALL OF THE IMPACTS THAT A APPLICATION COULD HAVE. 
          SO YOU GUYS HAVE A LOT OF DISCRETION IN YOUR FINDINGS. 
          AND IF YOU SAY, MY FINDINGS ARE BASED ON THE PUBLIC'S, UH, COMMENTS REGARDING X, Y, AND Z, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M MAKING MY DECISION ON, I THINK THAT COURT WOULD UPHOLD THAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND I JUST WANTED TO GIVE ONE CLARIFYING NOTE. 
          UH, JUST BASED ON THE DISCUSSION WE JUST HAD. 
          I KNOW OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS ARE NEXT, AND I'M GUESSING JUST BASED ON WORKLOAD AND TIMELINE, SQL, A SQL WORKSHOP WOULD PROBABLY FALL AFTER THAT AT SOME POINT, RIGHT? I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S SAFE. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          THEN IF AFTER THAT, 'CAUSE I, I THINK ANY, 
          [02:05:01]
ANY OTHER PROJECT WE MIGHT HAVE, C Q A COMES UP. 
          SO THE SOONER WE GET THAT, THE BETTER. 
          AND THEN AFTER THAT, IF WE COULD THEN START TO TALK ABOUT WHAT JUST COME UP, RIGHT, THE DESIGN REVIEW PORTION, HOW WE START TO REALLY IMPLEMENT THAT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE DISCRETIONARY PROJECTS, BUT ALSO PROVIDING THOSE STANDARDS EARLIER AND WHAT WE CAN KIND OF COME UP WITH OR AT LEAST RECOMMEND. 
          I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE THAT WORKSHOP FOLLOWING THAT. 
          PERFECT. 
          SURE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          JUST WANTED TO GIVE THAT CLARIFICATION FOR KIND OF SEQUENTIAL TIMELINE. 
          WE APPRECIATE THE GUIDANCE FOR SURE. 
          WELL, WITH THAT, WE'RE GOING TO GO ONTO ITEM THREE. 
          ITEM THREE HAS TO DO WITH THE POTENTIAL CREATION OF AN AD HOC COMMITTEE. 
          FOR, FOR THE PURPOSE OF TONIGHT, WE ARE GIVING STAFF RECOMMENDATION AS TO THE, THE SUBSTANCE AND WHAT WE'D LIKE AN AD HOC COMMITTEE TO DO. 
          WE HAD AN EARLY DISCUSSION TWO, TWO MEETINGS AGO TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD HAVE ONE, WHETHER OR NOT WE MIGHT HAVE ONE. 
          THIS DISCUSSION WOULD BE TO GIVE IT SOME FORM. 
          UH, I HAD ASKED FOLKS AT THAT MEETING IF THEY, YOU KNOW, COME BACK TO THE NEXT DISCUSSION ON THIS WITH IDEAS THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE FOR AN AD HOC COMMITTEE. 
          UH, I'M GONNA KICK THINGS OFF NOW. 
          I, WHEN WE HAD THE FIRST DISCUSSION, I HAD ONE IN MIND AND I JUST, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE TALKED ABOUT PROCESS AND PROCEDURE AND WHAT COULD BE INCLUDED. 
          I ALSO WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE LEGALLY ALLOWED TO HAVE AN AD HOC COMMITTEE. 
          UH, NOW WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS PROPOSE ONE, WHICH IS BY NO MEANS A STATEMENT THAT THE REST OF THE COMMISSION CAN'T EITHER PROPOSE A DIFFERENT ONE, PROPOSE SEVERAL, OR DISAGREE. 
          I JUST WANTED TO START THINGS OFF. 
          UH, THE COMMITTEE, I WAS AD HOC COMMITTEE, I WAS HOPING WE COULD CREATE OR STRUCTURE WOULD BE A COMMUNICATIONS AND AD HOC COMMITTEE. 
          IT WOULD HAVE ABOUT A SIX MONTH TIMELINE, THEORETICALLY SPEAKING, IF AT THE END OF SIX MONTHS IT WAS EITHER HUMMING ALONG AND WE THOUGHT THERE WAS STILL MORE WORK TO DO, WE COULD HAVE THE VOTE TO KEEP THAT GOING. 
          BUT I WANTED TO GIVE IT A, A TIMELINE THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY VISUALIZE IN YOUR HEAD AND THEN KIND OF BE ABLE TO WORK BACKWARDS FROM THE IDEA OF THIS. 
          I THINK THAT THE WORKSHOP WE WENT THROUGH ACTUALLY HIGHLIGHTS WHY WE NEED IT. 
          UH, THERE'S KIND OF THREE THINGS I WOULD WANT IT TO FOCUS ON. 
          THE IDEA WOULD BE, ONE, WORKING WITH STAFF TO TRANSLATE THE PROCESSES WE HAVE INTO SOMETHING THAT IS DIGESTIBLE, THAT CAN BE SHARED EASILY ACROSS EMAIL AND STAFF REPORTS ONLINE. 
          SOMETHING WHERE IF SOMEONE'S GOING THROUGH AND THEY'RE GETTING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT VERSUS DOING A STUDY SESSION, WHY HAVING ALL OF THAT IN A WAY THAT'S REUSABLE, KIND OF LIKE A TOOLKIT, SO THAT WHEN WE'RE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS STAFF'S NOT HAVING TO RECREATE THE WHEEL. 
          WE'RE, WE'RE NOT EXPECTING STAFF TO SUDDENLY START DOING THIS. 
          WE CAN MEET WITH THEM, HOPEFULLY, ASSUMING STAFF HAS THE TIME. 
          HELP US PULL THOSE ELEMENTS OUT SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT TIME WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE AN OVERLAY DISCUSSION WHERE PEOPLE THINK THE DECISION'S ALREADY BEEN MADE. 
          WE'VE GOT SOME VISUALS, WE HAVE SOME TEXT THAT'S ACCESSIBLE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND. 
          NO, YOU'RE ACTUALLY AT THE VERY START OF THE SUBSTANTIVE PROCESS FOR DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE FINDINGS. 
          YOUR, YOUR CONCERN, SUPPORT, OUTRAGE, WHAT HAVE YOU, IS ACTUALLY ALL PART OF THAT. 
          AND WE'RE RIGHT AT SQUARE ONE. 
          PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT, 'CAUSE THEY THINK BY THE TIME THEY GET HERE THAT, OH, WE'RE WAY LATE IN THE PROCESS AND THIS IS ALREADY HAPPENING. 
          SO FIRST PART OF THIS WOULD BE TAKING THESE DIFFERENT STEPS, MAKING IT DIGESTIBLE, MAKING IT REUSABLE. 
          SECOND PART WOULD BE LOOKING AT OUR PLANNING COMMISSION WEBSITE, UH, WHERE OUR PROJECTS ARE LISTED. 
          UH, LOOKING AT HOW THE CURRENT CITY CURRENTLY SHARES UPDATES ON THESE PROJECTS ON SOCIAL MEDIA THROUGH EMAIL, NEWSLETTER AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS CHANNELS AND MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR WAYS TO CHANGE IT. 
          UH, ONE THING I WAS THINKING ABOUT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC COMMENT, WE'VE GOT A PAGE FOR EVERY PROJECT FROM A WEB PERSPECTIVE. 
          THERE IS NO EARTHLY REASON WHY YOU COULDN'T HAVE A BUTTON TO SUBMIT PUBLIC COMMENT WHENEVER YOU WANTED TO ON THE PUBLIC PAGE AT ANY GIVEN TIME. 
          RIGHT NOW, THAT MIGHT BE A STAFF OR ADMINISTRATIVE PROBLEM, I DON'T KNOW. 
          BUT MY POINT IS, LOOKING AT THESE DIFFERENT SOURCES TO SEE HOW THEY CAN BE CLEAR, EASIER TO FIND. 
          I ALSO KNOW HALF THE TIME IF I WANT TO FIND IT, I HAVE TO GO DO A GOOGLE SEARCH AND ACTUALLY DO PUT PLANNING IN THE GOOGLE SEARCH. 
          'CAUSE I CAN'T FIND IT DIRECTLY FROM THE DROPDOWN AND THE PEDAL WEBSITE. 
          I HID THAT FACT FOR A LONG TIME. 
          'CAUSE I FELT EMBARRASSED. 
          I COULDN'T FIND IT UNTIL I FOUND OUT FROM ALMOST EVERY OTHER COMMISSIONER THEY WERE HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM. 
          SO I FEEL, I FEEL A LITTLE MORE CONFIDENT ABOUT THAT CONCERN. 
          , THE STAFF DO THE SAME. 
          SO , OKAY, , WE SHARE THAT WITH YOU. 
          , WELL, AT LEAST, AT LEAST WE HAVE ONE RECOMMENDATION DOWN. 
          BUT LOOKING AT THIS TO SEE AGAIN, WHAT THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS COULD BE 
          [02:10:01]
WITH AN EYE TOWARDS HOW MUCH CAN WE BE HELPING, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THIS TO TURN INTO, HERE'S A BUNCH OF HOMEWORK FOR STAFF THAT'S ALREADY OVERWORKED. 
          RIGHT? SO, AND THEN THIS LEADS TO THE THIRD PART, WHICH IS THEN WORKING WITH STAFF TO TURN SOME OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS DOWN INTO REPEATABLE AND REUSABLE CONTENT. 
          UH, I HAVE DONE A LOT OF WORK IN, IN GOVERNMENT COMMUNICATIONS WHERE YOU'RE ALWAYS CREATING INFORMATION AROUND POLICY THAT IS EASY TO REINSERT. 
          AND PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE THE PROJECTS MAY VARY OR THE THING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MAY VARY, BUT THE PROCESS IS THEORETICALLY GOING TO BE THE SAME, EVEN WITH THE DIFFERENT VARIABLES AND EXPECTING STAFF IN THE MOMENT TO USE IT IS, IT'S GREAT, BUT IF IT'S NOT EASY TO USE, IT WON'T GET USED. 
          SO MY HOPE WITH THIS IS WE'RE ABLE TO COME TOGETHER, BUILD THESE VARIOUS TOOLKITS OUT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, WORKING WITH STAFF SO THEY HAVE IT. 
          AND THEN ALSO FINALLY, AS WE DELVE THROUGH THIS, AND THIS WOULD BE THE FINAL BIT OF IT, LOOKING AT WHAT IS THE COMMUNICATION PROCESS FROM, WE'VE GOT AN APPLICANT, WE'RE GOING THROUGH IT. 
          WHO'S GETTING NOTIFIED? HOW ARE WE UPDATING IT? IS THERE A BLOCKAGE? IS THE PERSON WHO UPDATES THE WEBSITE, I'M, I'M MAKING THIS UP OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT MAYBE THEY ONLY GET UPDATES ON A CERTAIN DAY. 
          OR BECAUSE OF THEIR SCHEDULING, THEY CAN ONLY WORK ON CERTAIN THINGS AT CERTAIN TIMES. 
          LIKE WHAT ARE THE BARRIERS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE TO WORK THROUGH? UH, SO THAT IS, THAT'S ENTIRELY ON THE, THE KIND OF CONTENT TO BE CREATED AND THINGS TO BE REFORM SIDE OF THINGS. 
          AND THE OTHER BIT OF THIS WOULD BE TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE OPPORTUNITIES? AND THIS WOULD BE RECOMMENDATIONS TO BE MADE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          UH, WHAT ARE OPPORTUNITIES WE COULD LOOK AT FOR MORE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT THAT IS APPROPRIATE IN ALL CONTEXTS? AND I BRING THAT UP TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE HAD CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, I'M SURE A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE HERE AS WELL, WHO WILL COME UP AND SAY, HEY, WHY DON'T YOU GO TO THIS EVENT? WHY DON'T YOU, WHY DON'T YOU CHECK IN, EXPLAIN THIS, EXPLAIN THAT WHAT I'D LIKE. 
          AND SOMETIMES THAT WORKS OUT GREAT. 
          AND THEN OTHER TIMES IT LEADS TO THINGS THAT DELVE TOO FAR INTO EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS OR IT DELVES INTO PLACES WHERE, OKAY, ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE HERE. 
          SO THIS IS NOW ACTUALLY CONSTITUTING A MEETING AND WE SHOULD HAVE STAFF HERE AND IT, IT KIND OF CAN GUM UP THE PROCESS. 
          WHAT I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT ARE WHAT ARE THE PROJECT TYPES OR SITUATIONS WHERE, OH, AS A MATTER OF EXPECTATION, LIKE WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THE OVERLAY, WE SHOULD ASSUME WE'RE GONNA DO A FORUM. 
          KIND OF LIKE WHAT THEY DID WITH NO, BEFORE YOU GROW. 
          I'M NOT SAYING WITH NO BEFORE YOU GROW EVERY TIME, BUT I JUST MEAN WE SHOULD ASSUME THERE'S GOING TO BE X, Y, OR Z OUT IN THE COMMUNITY TO GO TO WHERE THEY ARE TO TALK ABOUT THIS. 
          SO I WANNA LOOK AT WHAT THOSE OPTIONS ARE. 
          UH, THAT'S WHY I, I'M PREFACING SIX MONTH TIMELINE WITH THE OPTION THAT WE CAN ADD MORE. 
          'CAUSE THIS IS A LOT TO DO. 
          UH, I DID FIND OUT A, IN TERMS OF THE SIZE OF AN AD HOC, WE'D HAVE ABOUT THREE COMMISSIONERS ON IT. 
          THE IDEA WOULD THEN BE THAT WE WOULD WORK WITH MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, LIKE SANDY POTTER FOR EXAMPLE, WHO ARE VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE IN THIS PROCESS AND WHO WOULD HELP US A LOT WITH TRANSLATING THIS. 
          BUT UH, KIND OF BRING IN MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY THAT MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN SEEING THIS BE A LOT MORE TRANSPARENT. 
          AND THIS ISN'T TO SAY THAT THE PROCESS HASN'T BEEN TRANSPARENT, BUT IT'S JUST, IT CAN BE INCREDIBLY, UH, IT CAN BE INCREDIBLY DI DIFFICULT TO DISTILL IN THE MOMENT. 
          SO GETTING THOSE FOLKS IN WHO'VE HAD THE, THAT CRITICISM BUT MIGHT WANT TO HELP MAKE IT EASIER FOR ALL OF US TO ENGAGE THE PUBLIC, I THINK IS A GREAT WAY TO ALSO PIVOT THE DISCOURSE AROUND SOME OF THESE THINGS FROM, UH, KIND OF CONCERN AND RESPONSE TO WORKING TOGETHER. 
          SO THIS, THIS IS THE PROPOSAL THAT I HAVE. 
          I WILL LEAVE IT UP TO FOLKS WHO HAVE IDEAS. 
          YES, ACTUALLY, I, I DO HAVE SOME COMMENTS AND I WROTE A BUNCH OF NOTES TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS REALLY MEANT. 
          'CAUSE I REALLY WASN'T SURE. 
          AND I FEEL LIKE, UM, WHAT WE JUST HEARD, THE PRESENTATION IS KIND OF WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN CALL IT A TOOLKIT, WE CAN CALL IT WHATEVER WE WANT. 
          JUST SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY GO THROUGH AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PROCESS IS. 
          AND SO, I MEAN, TODAY, YOU KNOW, WE JUST KINDA WENT OVER, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE DIFFERENT PROCESSES, UM, FOR PLANNING. 
          AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UM, KIND OF A, YOU KNOW, A BINDER, WHATEVER IT IS ON THE WEBSITE THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY GO THROUGH TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE PLANNING PROCESS WORKS. 
          AND SO WE'RE KIND TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT THINGS I'M LOOKING AT SO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE PLANNING PROCESS FROM THE START TO THE END MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND IT SEEMS AS THOUGH WHAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING WOULD BE KIND OF FILTERED INTO 
          [02:15:01]
THAT DOCUMENT OF HOW THE PUBLIC IS ENGAGED, WHAT THAT PROCESS IS. 
          I'M, I'M TRYING TO RECOMMEND BOTH BECAUSE ON ONE HAND I, I COMPLETELY AGREE, WE DEFINITELY NEED THAT. 
          HERE'S THE BINDER THAT SOMEONE CAN LOOK THROUGH AND IT KIND OF FROM A TO Z GETS YOU THROUGH IT. 
          THE OTHER ISSUE IS JUST WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HEAR THINGS IN, IN THE CITY, I'M SURE WITH EVERY CITY. 
          WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HEAR A THING OUTTA HAND. 
          AND IF YOU TELL THEM, OH YEAH, NO, JUST GO LOOK AT THE BINDER, THEY'RE NOT GONNA GO TO THE BINDER. 
          SO I ALSO WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE THEN TAKE THE BINDER AND TURN IT INTO REUSABLE CONTENT THAT CAN BE RIGHT. 
          DISTRIBUTED ON DIFFERENT PLATFORMS, DIFFERENT PARTS OF THAT. 
          'CAUSE IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE'S SO MUCH MISINFORMATION OUT THERE, RIGHT? AND SO HOW DO YOU STOP THE MISINFORMATION AT THE BEGINNING, RIGHT? AND SO IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S KIND OF ALL COMBINED TOGETHER. 
          WELL, 'CAUSE LIKE, TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE, I'LL USE THE OVERLAY SINCE THAT'S BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S GOT A LOT OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT. 
          YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNICATION STEP FOR THAT MIGHT BE, OKAY, HERE'S HERE'S THE SECTION OF THE BINDER THAT TALKS ABOUT WHAT THE, OVER WHAT AN OVERLAY OVERLAY WOULD LOOK LIKE. 
          HOW IT COMES ABOUT ALL THAT. 
          BUT THEN WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SHARE IN TERMS OF THAT PROCESS FOR THE OVERLAY IN SOCIAL MEDIA OR ON THE NEWSLETTER, OR ON THE WEBSITE FOR THAT PROJECT IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT THAN, SAY THE PROCESS CHART YOU'RE SHOWING FOR A SIM, SIMPLE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT ON SOMETHING. 
          SO HAVING ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT TENDRILS THAT COME OUT FROM IT, LIKE IF WE, IF WE DID A, A COMMUNICATIONS TOOLKIT FOR LIKE EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS FOR EXAMPLE, UH, I'VE DONE A FAIR BIT OF THAT. 
          YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE, HERE'S WHAT YOU'RE GONNA PUT ON FACEBOOK FOR THIS. 
          HERE'S WHAT YOU'RE GONNA PUT ON INSTAGRAM FOR THIS. 
          HERE'S WHAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR AN E-NEWSLETTER. 
          HERE'S WHAT'S APPROPRIATE ON YOUR WEBSITE. 
          YOU KNOW, BIG CHART HERE, SMALL CHART THERE, THAT SORT OF THING. 
          WHAT ARE BAD, WHAT ARE TERM TERMS THAT WE'RE USING THAT WE SHOULDN'T BECAUSE TO EVERYONE ELSE, THEY DON'T MEAN WHAT WE THINK THEY MEAN. 
          WHAT ARE, WHAT IS MORE KIND OF ACCESSIBLE, FRIENDLY TERMINOLOGY THAT WE CAN USE. 
          SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I MEAN BY COMBINING IT OF WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO START. 
          THAT'S WHY I TRY TO START WITH TRANSLATING THE PROCESS. 
          WE NEED TO START WITH THAT BINDER RIGHT OUTTA THE GATE. 
          THEN HOW WE TURN THAT INTO ACCESSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS ON WEBSITE, ON SOCIAL MEDIA IN PERSON, AND TO WHAT DEGREE WE NEED TO BE COMMUNICATING DEPENDING ON THE PROJECT. 
          LIKE HOW FAR DO WE NEED TO GO? GOOD QUESTION. 
          WELL, GO AHEAD. 
          I, I, I THINK I SPOKE TO ANDREW ABOUT THIS SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, , BUT I THINK THE WHOLE, THE PROCESS THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING, YOU KNOW, FROM CONCEPT REVIEW, WHAT IS, WHAT IS CONCEPT REVIEW? WHAT SHOULD THEY SUBMIT? WHAT SHOULD THEY, HOW SHOULD THEY USE IT? WHAT'S EXPECTED? UM, AS, AS A SUBMITTAL, UH, ELEMENT. 
          SO CONCEPT REVIEW, WORK SESSIONS, SITE PLAN REVIEW, UM, SPAR, ALL. 
          I THINK ALL OF THOSE THINGS NEED TO BE MM-HMM. 
           DEFINED. 
          WHAT IS IT? MM-HMM. 
          , HOW SHOULD IT BE USED? WHAT'S THE CONTENT AND WHAT'S NEEDED FOR OUR MM-HMM. 
          , YOU KNOW, FEED APPROVAL OR FEEDBACK RIGHT NOW. 
          I MEAN, PEOPLE CALL IT WORK SESSION, BUT IT'S, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL IT IS. 
          IT'S A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, LET'S SEE HOW MUCH I CAN GET OUT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          THE CONCEPT REVIEW. 
          THERE NEEDS TO BE SEVERAL CONCEPTS. 
          WE WENT THROUGH THAT WITH CANNELL, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          THEY FINALLY REALIZED THAT THREE CONCEPTS WOULD HELP. 
          SO TRY TO DEFINE WHAT THAT IS TO HELP THE APPLICANT MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND THEY ALSO HELP US USE THAT AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          I LOVE THE IDEA OF REFERENCE MATERIALS, DEFINING, LAYING OUT FLOW CHARTS OF PROCESS. 
          I WOULD IMAGINE, ANDREW, THAT STAFF MUST HAVE MATERIALS LIKE THIS ALREADY INTERNALLY, IF NOT TOTALLY MANICURED FOR THE LAYMAN'S PERSPECTIVE, BUT MM-HMM. 
          WELL, THEY'RE TOO BUSY. 
          PERHAPS NOT MANICURED FOR THE LAYMAN'S PERSPECTIVE, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          . 
          RIGHT, RIGHT. 
          BUT, BUT WE DO HAVE, YEAH, WE DO HAVE THE, THE PROCESS CHARTS AND SUCH. 
          IT'S, IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE PRIMARILY FOR INTERNAL USE AND SO THEY'RE PRETTY COMPLEX. 
          WE WOULD HAVE TO TRANSLATE AND THAT'S WITH THE TRANSLATING. 
          YEAH, EXACTLY. 
          I THINK THAT'S A FANTASTIC IDEA. 
          AND, AND SO I LOVE CREATING THE LIBRARY, THE ENCYCLOPEDIA, THE FLOW CHARTS TO REFERENCE, BREAK THAT UP, THE ICEBERG METHOD, BREAK THAT UP INTO CHUNKS. 
          YOU USE DIFFERENT PLACES. 
          I THINK THE IN-PERSON COMPONENT, I THINK FIGURING THAT OUT CAN BE REALLY HELPFUL. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , UH, JUST ON THE OVERLAY, I WENT TO A COMMUNITY MEETING ON THE OVERLAY AND I WAS SURPRISED. 
          I JUST SHOWED UP TO LISTEN, DIDN'T WANT TO SAY ANYTHING, BUT I FOUND I HAD TO GIVE PEOPLE CONTEXT ON LIKE, HERE'S WHAT A PLANNING DEPARTMENT DOES. 
          'CAUSE THEY SAID, MAN, THEY'RE REALLY FRIENDLY AND TRYING TO GET THIS PROJECT ACCOMPLISHED. 
          I'M LIKE, WELL, IT'S KIND OF THEIR JOB. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO, YOU KNOW, SO EVEN THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          SO HAVING THAT PUBLIC INTERFACE WHERE IF YOU 
          [02:20:01]
SAY, HEY, GO LOOK AT THE ENCYCLOPEDIA. 
          YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE EACH PERSON'S CONCERNS ARE COMING FROM. 
          SO IT REALLY HELPS SOMETIMES TO HAVE THOSE IN-PERSON MEETINGS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO YOU HEAR KIND OF THE RECURRING THEMES AND CAN JUST SPECIFICALLY PULL OUT OF THAT. 
          SO DO WE KNOW, I, I REMEMBER I, WHEN I FIRST GOT ON PLANNING, YOU KNOW, I HAD THE, THE NAIVE IDEA OF I'M GONNA HOST KIND OF LIKE A NO BEFORE YOU GROW AT A, AT A PLACE, AN INFORMAL PLACE. 
          AND I KNOW THERE WAS A LOT TO CONSIDER WHETHER STAFF HAD TO BE THERE, HOW MANY PLANNING COMMISSIONERS HAD TO BE THERE. 
          WHAT DOES THAT IN-PERSON COMPONENT LOOK LIKE? I MEAN, WHAT'S POSSIBLE? IS IT JUST AN AD HOCS LESSON THAN FOUR MEMBERS? SO WE'RE IN THE CLEAR OR YEAH, IT WOULD BE JUST THREE MEMBERS. 
          UH, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO, UH, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY, UH, IT'S COMMISSIONER MCKEON HOOPER AND COMMISSIONER ERLING, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO THEN EMAIL THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS AND SAY, HEY, WE ARE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THIS ON THIS DAY. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , UH, YOU WOULDN'T, WE WOULD PROBABLY SCHEDULE, I DON'T KNOW, IN A COUPLE MONTHS, JUST SAY FOLLOW UP AND THAT WAY, UH, THERE'S AN UPDATE SO THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS CAN WEIGH IN ON THE PROCESS, BUT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO TALK TO THE PUBLIC AT ANY TIME, STAFF AT ANY TIME. 
          IT'S REALLY JUST THE, THE MAJORITY OF THE BODY CAN'T MEET SEPARATELY OR TOGETHER. 
          AND JUST THE FEAR ABOUT TECHNOLOGY, BUT JUST TO BE CLEAR, CAN MEMBERS, 'CAUSE ONE THING I, I DIDN'T SAY INITIALLY, I WAS HOPING WE COULD ALSO GET MEMBERS OF OTHER COMMISSIONS THAT IN THEIR SPARE TIME, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, THE SENIOR COMMISSION YEAH. 
          LIKE IN THEIR SPARE TIME, WHO MIGHT NOT AS OFFICIAL COMMISSIONERS, LIKE NOT AS THE THREE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO PUT THEIR NAME ON EVERYTHING THEY'RE PRESENTING, BUT THERE TO CONTRIBUTE IDEAS. 
          BECAUSE I KNOW WITH, AND I KNOW IT'S A DIFF IT'S A ADVISORY COMMITTEE, NOT A COMMISSION. 
          BUT I KNOW WITH PBAC, WHEN WE DID OUR ADVISORIES, WHEN WE HAD OUR AD HOCS, THERE WERE WAY MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THOSE AD HOCS THAN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY ON THE AD HOC COMMITTEE. 
          CONSIDERING THE AMOUNT OF WORK THIS COULD BE, I THINK LIKE HAVING FOLKS LIKE SANDY WHO'S NOT ON A COMMISSION OR HAVING FOLKS FROM OUR SENIOR COMMITTEE WHO WANTS TO, TO CONTRIBUTE, LIKE, HEY, THESE ARE THINGS THAT WOULD HELP US. 
          I'M JUST WONDERING LIKE THAT'S A POOL OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY ENGAGED, WHO MIGHT WANT TO HELP IN THIS PROCESS. 
          IS THAT ACCEPTABLE OR IS THAT BREACHING ANY KIND OF LEGAL ISSUE? NO, THAT WOULD BE FINE. 
          THEY JUST COULDN'T BE ACTUALLY MEMBERS OF THE AD HOC COMMITTEE. 
          RIGHT. 
          THEY COULD, BUT IF THEY SHOW UP TO EVERY, EVERY MEETING, IF THEY SEND EMAILS, IF THEY'RE INCLUDED ON ALL THE EMAILS, THAT'S TOTALLY FINE. 
          GOT IT. 
          OKAY. 
          WHAT IS THE GOAL OF, I'M, I'M CONFUSED OF THE AD HOC COMMITTEE AND 'CAUSE YOU'RE KIND OF TALKING, IF WE GO AND SPEAK TO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, ARE YOU SAYING I, I'M JUST CONFUSED. 
          ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THAT MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE WOULD GO AND PRESENT? NO. 
          SO WELL, WELL, AND SO THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK WE COULD PRESENT MY, YEAH. 
          MY CONCEPTION WHEN I HEARD WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS MORE LIKE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS ARE THERE WITH THIS KNOWLEDGE OF KIND OF THE PROCESS THAT WE'VE REALLY LAID OUT IN LAYMAN'S TERMS TO REVIEW THE PROJECT OR NOT, WE WOULDN'T PRESENT ON IT, BUT HEAR PUBLIC'S FEEDBACK IN AN INFORMAL SETTING OR MY, SO YOU'RE, I SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING. 
          MY GOAL, SO WHEN I WAS, WHEN I TALKED ABOUT THE IN-PERSON ELEMENT, PART OF WHAT I WAS BRINGING UP, 90% OF THIS AD HOC WOULD BE ABOUT PRODUCING AGAIN, THE THINGS THAT ARE REUSABLE THAT STAFF CAN USE, THAT WE CAN USE THAT CAN BE PUT INTO EVERY, ANY GIVEN PROJECT, ANY GIVEN STAFF REPORT, FOR EXAMPLE. 
          HAVING THAT STUFF AT THE BEGINNING. 
          UH, ANOTHER ELEMENT OF THIS THAT I THOUGHT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO LOOK AT IS THAT AS WE'VE HAD THINGS LIKE THE OVERLAY WHERE THERE WERE THESE PUBLIC MEETINGS THAT I THINK DID HAVE SOME HELP AND BENEFIT, HAVING THE AD HOC ALSO COME UP WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, PRESENTING SEVERAL THAT WE COULD LOOK AT FOR VIABILITY THAT STAFF COULD TELL US, YES, YOU CAN DO THIS. 
          NO YOU CAN'T. 
          HERE'S THE OTHER ISSUES. 
          BUT COME UP WITH RECOMMENDATIONS FOR WHAT ARE THOSE PUBLIC OUTSIDE OF A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OR HEARING. 
          WHAT ARE THOSE KIND OF, WHAT ARE THOSE IN-PERSON OPTIONS WE COULD COME UP WITH THAT ARE LIKE FORUMS OR LIKE TOWN HALLS OR LIKE THE KNOW BEFORE YOU GROW EVENT, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE COULD HAVE IN OUR BACK POCKET AND WE CAN STANDARDIZE. 
          'CAUSE IN MY HEAD I'M TRYING TO STAND THE MORE STANDARDIZED ALL OF THIS BECOMES THE LESS WE'LL HAVE THE CONSPIRACY CONCERN. 
          'CAUSE I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE'RE DOING NEW BECAUSE THINGS ARE EMERGING THAT WE'VE NOT HAD TO DO BEFORE. 
          AND SO THE PUBLIC GOES, WAIT, WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS? WHAT, WHY WASN'T I INVITED? WAS THAT A CITY MEETING OR A SPECIAL GROUP MEETING? WHO WAS INVOLVED? SO WHAT I'M HOPING FOR, WHAT'S THE HAPPY MEDIUM OF SOMETHING WHERE IF WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE AN OVERLAY OR WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW, OH, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF COMMUNITY INTEREST IN THIS. 
          WE, WE'VE GOTTA HAVE AN OPTION WHERE WE GO TO THEM, SO TO SPEAK, TO KINDA JUST ANSWER QUESTIONS. 
          WHAT ARE THOSE STANDARDIZED PUBLIC EVENT OPTIONS? I JUST WANTED THE AD HOC TO COME UP WITH IDEAS FOR THAT TO PRESENT TO US AS 
          [02:25:01]
PART OF THE PROCESS. 
          IT'S NOT BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT US ENGAGING THE PUBLIC, IT'S BECAUSE I, I WANTED US TO BUILD OUT KIND OF A BANK OF WHAT THOSE OPTIONS MIGHT BE. 
          WHAT THE GOOD, BAD OR UGLY RELATED TO THEM OR THE DOWNSIDES OR UPSIDES TO THEM MIGHT BE. 
          SO THAT WAS MY IDEA THERE. 
          RIGHT. 
          YEAH. 
          THANKS. 
          UH, CHAIR. 
          AND I JUST WANNA CLARIFY 'CAUSE IT WAS SOMETHING YOU SAID THIS IS REALLY ONLY ABOUT PROCESS. 
          THIS IS NOT PROJECT SPECIFIC. 
          NO. 
          REALLY. 
          SO THIS AD HOC COMMITTEE WOULD NOT BE TALKING ABOUT NO PROJECTS, RIGHT? NO. 
          SO, RIGHT. 
          THIS, THERE'S, THAT'S NOT THE FORUM FOR THIS. 
          THIS IS THE PROCESS OF HOW WE MIGHT DEAL WITH ADDITIONAL PUBLIC ABSOLUTELY. 
          PROCESSES GOING FORWARD. 
          WHICH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          AND WE MIGHT, THEY, THEY MIGHT COME BACK AND SAY, HEY, WE CHECKED IN, WE CHECKED IN WITH DYLAN, WE CHECKED IN WITH FOLKS. 
          WE FOUND OUT THERE IS NO OPTION BUT JUST TO HAVE DONE THE WORK TO LOOK AT WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. 
          THAT'S ALL. 
          AND IT COULD BE THAT, HEY, THIS IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THE COUNCIL SHOULD BE DOING. 
          NOT NOT ANY PLANNING COMMISSIONER, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I'D RATHER WE JUST LOCK DOWN WHAT THOSE STANDARDIZED METHODS ARE. 
          AND IT'S, IT'S ANOTHER ELEMENT OF COMMUNICATION. 
          SO I THOUGHT THAT'D BE ANOTHER THING TO LOOK AT. 
          MY GOAL IN ALL OF THIS IS THEY LOOKING AT, AGAIN, THAT FIRST BINDER, GOING BACK TO GOING BACK TO THE VICE MAYOR'S ORIGINAL POINT. 
          WHAT'S THAT FIRST BINDER WE GET THAT FIRST BINDER WE, WE KNOW THE TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION CERTAINLY EXISTS. 
          SO HOPEFULLY THAT PROCESS WON'T EVEN BE AS TIME CONSUMING. 
          'CAUSE IT'S REALLY LIKE JUST SIMPLIFYING, UH, AND MAKING MORE VISUALS. 
          THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT, OKAY, WHAT IS THE CONTENT WE CAN CREATE FROM THAT? THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT THE CITY IS ALREADY DOING TO COMMUNICATE THINGS LIKE OUR WEBSITE? WHAT RECOMMENDATIONS CAN WE MAKE TO CHANGE IT? WHAT'S, WHAT'S POSSIBLE UNDER OUR AUTHORITY? WHAT'S GONNA TAKE LONGER? AND THEN FINALLY LOOKING AT, OKAY, LET'S LOOK AT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR LET'S FUTURE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT OPPORTUNITIES WOULD LOOK LIKE. 
          UH, THAT'S WHY TO ME IT'S, THERE'S SOME CONTENT WE THE AD HOC WOULD BE MAKING, BUT A LOT OF THIS WOULD BE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY'VE DONE THE WORK TO LOOK AT AND COME BACK TO US WITH TO FINALIZE. 
          AND WHAT DOES THAT, WHAT DOES THE FEEDBACK LUKE LOOK LIKE IF YOU GET GOOD INPUT BACK FROM, FROM THE PUBLIC? DOES THAT GO JUST TO STAFF? IS THERE, IS THERE A READOUT BACK PRESENT? BACK TO THIS MEETING? BACK TO THIS MEETING. 
          OKAY. 
          WHAT I WAS HOPING FOR, LIKE LET'S SAY WE DO SIX MONTHS, WE, WE MEET TWICE A MONTH THEORETICALLY. 
          SO I WAS THINKING IT'LL TAKE A BIT OF TIME TO DO THIS. 
          SO HALFWAY THROUGH THAT, HAVING AN ITEM ON OUR, OUR AGENDA TO LOOK AT WHAT PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE. 
          I HAVEN'T TRIED TO WORKSHOP THE PROJECT TIMELINE OF THIS TOO MUCH. 
          'CAUSE I WANTED TO, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE DISCUSSION AND ULTIMATELY STAFF KIND OF HAS TO PRESENT IT BACK TO US TO VOTE ON AND APPROVE. 
          BUT HOPEFULLY THE AD HOC WOULD PUT THE PROJECT TIMELINE TOGETHER. 
          WE WOULD WITH A SIX MONTH CAP IN MIND, FIRST PRESENTATION ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH THAT WOULD PROBABLY GET YOU THROUGH THE BINDER, SO TO SPEAK. 
          AS WELL AS THE OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS, LOOKING AT WEBSITE COMMUNICATIONS, ET CETERA. 
          AND THEN THAT SECOND BIT DEALING WITH OUR FEEDBACK AND THEN LOOKING AT PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT PORTION OF IT AS WELL. 
          AND THEN COMING BACK WITH A FINAL TIMELINE. 
          HOPEFULLY BY THEN WE'VE WORKED THROUGH ENOUGH OF THE KINKS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE THINGS THAT ARE REALISTIC TO DO QUICKLY. 
          WHAT ARE THINGS THAT ARE GONNA TAKE LONGER AND WHAT ARE THINGS THAT WERE NICE IDEAS, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, WE HAVE TO SHELVE IT FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER. 
          AND THAT WOULD BE THE FINAL FEEDBACK LOOP TO GET GOING. 
          I'M STILL CONFUSED. 
          OKAY. 
          AND YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE HAD THE FIRST AGENDA ITEM THAT IS REALLY KIND OF OPENING UP, YOU KNOW, HOW TO BE A PLANNING COMMISSIONER, BUT I THINK THAT'S, OR YOU KNOW WHAT THE ROLE IS MM-HMM. 
           AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING IMPORTANT FOR THE PUBLIC MM-HMM. 
           BECAUSE THEY DON'T SEEM TO, WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE, UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS MM-HMM. 
           AND I'M JUST NOT SURE HOW THESE ARE GOING TO COUPLE TOGETHER AND I'M JUST NOT SURE WHAT LEGALLY WHAT UM, I MEAN DO, ARE WE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE THE CITY ATTORNEY INVOLVED IN THIS? SO WE MAKE SURE THAT THE DIRECTION YOU'RE GOING LEGALLY YOU CAN GO THERE BECAUSE SOMETIMES THIS IS OUR PARAMETER AND I JUST FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO, AS A COMMITTEE, NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE LEGAL ASPECT OF IT MM-HMM. 
           TO STAY WITHIN THAT BOX INSTEAD OF CREATING A NEW BOX THAT MIGHT NOT BE LEGAL. 
          WELL THAT'S WHY THESE ARE ALL RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          UHHUH, . 
          SO THE, THE REAL, THE CORE WORK AT THE START IS GOING BACK TO, AND I'M JUST USING THE BINDER IMAGERY 'CAUSE I THINK THAT'S THE MOST ACCESSIBLE IMAGERY. 
          HOW ARE WE TRANSLATING EVERYTHING WE'RE DOING IN PLANNING PROJECT TIMELINES, WHAT 
          [02:30:01]
THE COMMISSION DOES, ALL OF THAT INTO EASILY ACCESSIBLE CONTENT. 
          WHETHER IT'S PROCESS CHARTS, WHETHER IT'S DESCRIPTIVE PARAGRAPHS, WHAT HAVE YOU, LIKE HOW WE TRANSLATE THAT TO SOMETHING PUBLIC CAN ACCESS. 
          IT'S A VERY, I DON'T WANNA SAY SIMPLE, BUT CONCEPTUALLY IT'S A SIMPLE THING THAT COMMISSIONERS AND AN AD HOC CAN ABSOLUTELY WORK WITH STAFF TO DO. 
          THEN THE NEXT STEP FROM THAT IS, OKAY, GREAT, WE'VE GOT A BINDER, WE'VE GOT A, A TOOLKIT, A BOX. 
          THE ONLY PEOPLE, WHOEVER ACCESS THIS BOX ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE INTEREST. 
          THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE INTEREST IN PROJECTS AND THINGS, BUT DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR THE INTEREST TO GO LOOK AT THE BINDER. 
          SO THEN IT'S HOW DO WE TURN THE BINDER INTO CONTENT ON THE WEBSITE CONTENT ON SOCIAL MEDIA CONTENT IN THE NEWSLETTER. 
          HOW DO WE CHANGE HOW, HOW KIND OF PLANNING IS COMMUNICATING? AND BY PLANNING, I MEAN PLANNING STAFF OR CITY COMMUNICATIONS. 
          I, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S HANDLED, BUT, BUT YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT. 
          I MEAN, I THINK THERE IS A COMMUNICATIONS AND I, YOU KNOW, WHEN I GO ON THE WEBSITE, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT RIGHT. 
          AND I'VE GONE ON OTHER CITY WEBSITES TOO. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THEY'RE REALLY NOT THAT USER FRIENDLY. 
          NO. 
          AND LIKE, YOU KNOW, ANDREW'S SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A REALLY LARGE, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LARGE TO PUT ON THERE, IT CAN'T NECESSARILY BE HERE. 
          SO IT HAS TO BE HERE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO LIKE, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU FIND DOCUMENTS JUST WITHIN THE SITE? AND IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THAT'S THE DIRECTION I'D REALLY LIKE TO GO. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THAT WAS, THAT'S THE NEXT BIG CHUNK OF IT. 
          THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M GETTING AT. 
          IT'S LIKE, YEAH, WE GOTTA MAKE THE BOX OR THE BINDER, BUT THEN WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW ARE PEOPLE ACCESSING ALL THE PROJECTS, ALL OF THIS INFORMATION ALREADY. 
          AND IT'S NOT JUST CITY PLANNER. 
          I MEAN WE'RE TALKING NO, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. 
          IT'S BIGGER THAN JUST PLANNING. 
          IT MAY BE BIGGER THAN JUST PLANNING. 
          BUT IN TERMS OF, BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE GETTING AT FEATURE CREEP. 
          I DO NOT, I'M NOT PROPOSING THE AD HOC RESOLVE THE CITY OF PETALUMA'S ONGOING WEBSITE ISSUES. 
          BECAUSE AS MUCH AS I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOMEBODY DO THAT OR A GROUP DO THAT, I KNOW THAT'S, WELL WITHOUT OUTSIDE OUR SCOPE, I WAS THINKING PRIMARILY THE ONE WEBPAGE WHERE WE HAVE ALL OF OUR PROJECTS LISTED. 
          'CAUSE THAT'S HARD TO FIND. 
          AND WHEN YOU'RE ON THERE, IT'S NOT THE EASIEST THING IN THE WORLD TO WORK WITH. 
          I AGREE. 
          SO AFTER THIS AD HOCS GONE THROUGH AND MADE THE BINDER, THEN IT'S HOW DO YOU USE THE BINDER? HOW DO YOU GET THE BINDER TO REGULAR PEOPLE? WELL, AND AND THAT'S WHERE I'M KIND OF GOING IS WHERE WHO IS REALLY THAT PERSON THAT REALLY KNOWS HOW TO PULL A WEBSITE TOGETHER THAT IS USER FRIENDLY? IS IT'S SOMEBODY THAT YOU NEED TO WELL, SO WE CAN, THE, I WORK WITH A LOT OF WEB PEOPLE AT WORK AND THE REASON I BRING THIS UP IS TO SAY THAT THEY ALL KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT YOU HAVE WEBSITES THAT AREN'T GREAT. 
          NO, BUT NO, ABSOLUTELY. 
          BUT THE, THE ONES I WORKED WITH THAT I I RESPECT THE MOST IS WHEN YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH A WEBSITE, THEY DON'T ARGUE WITH YOU THAT YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE OF BLAH, BLAH BLAH WEBEX DESIGN. 
          THEY RECOGNIZE, OH, THERE'S A PROBLEM. 
          SO MY GOAL WITH THE AD HOC AT THIS STAGE IS NOT TO SUDDENLY TURN THEM INTO WEB EXPERTS, BUT IS TO SAY, SO THEY'VE MADE THE BINDER, THEY'VE STARTED TO TURN IT INTO CONTENT THAT CAN GO ON DIFFERENT CHANNELS. 
          WE SHOULD ALSO HAVE THEM LOOK AT OUR WEBS AT OUR, OUR PORTION OF THE WEBSITE AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS HARD TO FIND. 
          THIS IS HARD TO FIND. 
          WE WOULD LOVE IT IF THIS WERE HERE ALSO. 
          HERE'S SOME FUNCTIONS THAT WOULD BE GREAT. 
          CAN WE DO THIS? WE COULD THEN FUNNEL THAT BACK TO STAFF WHO WOULD KNOW WHO TO SEND THAT TO. 
          OBVIOUSLY THAT DOESN'T CARRY WITH IT THE WEIGHT OF YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OR ELSE, BUT WE COULD AT LEAST TAKE THE FIRST STEP OF GOING, HEY, HERE'S SOME PROBLEMS WE'VE SEEN WITH THE WEBPAGE. 
          I SAY WEBPAGE 'CAUSE IT'S JUST A PORTION OF THE WEBSITE. 
          HERE'S WHAT SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE FIXED. 
          LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, FINDING IT FROM THE HOMEPAGE, BUT ALSO HERE ARE THE WAYS WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT CHANGE. 
          WHAT OF THIS IS DOABLE? WHAT ARE THE ROADBLOCKS? SO THEN WE GET THAT STUFF. 
          I GUESS WHEN I, I, I SEE THIS, I LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE AND I, AND AS, UM, NICOLE, YOU KNOW, COMMENTED ON, YOU KNOW, HOW DO DIFFERENT, UM, COMMITTEES, HOW DOES ANOTHER COMMITTEE WORK? YOU KNOW, AND HOW DO I FIND THE INFORMATION? MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND SO I JUST FEEL LIKE WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE PLANNING AND I FEEL LIKE, LIKE IT'S, IT'S A LARGER, IT'S, IT'S A LARGER CO YOU KNOW, ISSUE. 
          AND DO YOU TALK TO A PERSON FROM EACH COMMITTEE TO MAYBE START LOOKING AT THE WEBSITE FOR PBAC THE WEBSITE FOR THIS SO PEOPLE CAN START MAKING ACTUALLY COMMENTS ABOUT MAKING CHANGES. 
          AND WHAT I WAS THINKING ON THAT FRONT, BECAUSE THERE WAS A VERSION OF THIS WHERE I WAS LIKE, AND THEN WE COULD FIX THE WHOLE, DON'T GET ME WRONG, MY BRAIN WENT TO, AND THEN WE COULD FIX THE WHOLE WEBSITE. 
          WHAT I SEE YOU LAUGHING AT YOU , BUT WHAT, WHAT I WAS THINKING AND WHAT I'VE SEEN IN THE PAST, WE COULD BE THE EXAMPLE. 
          [02:35:01]
SO IF WE KEEP THIS FOCUSED ON US, AND, AND THE WHOLE GOAL OF THIS IS BY THE WAY, NOT TO ADD MORE ONTO STAFF TIME, BUT TO WORK WITH THEM ON THIS. 
          IF WE CAN FOCUS, FOCUS THIS ON, HEY, SO WE FOUND THE PATHWAY. 
          'CAUSE RIGHT NOW NONE OF US, I, I CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GO ABOUT CHANGING THE CITY'S WEBPAGE, BUT IF WE CAN BE THE ONES WHO FIGURE OUT, AND I THINK PLANNING'S A WORTHWHILE PLACE TO START BECAUSE GIVEN WHAT'S GOING ON, THEY'RE IT SO CRITICAL TO WHAT OUR CITY'S DOING. 
          WE CAN BE THE ONES TO FIND OUT WHAT THAT PATHWAY IS. 
          WE CAN FIND, WE CAN FIND OUT THROUGH THESE RECOMMENDATIONS WHAT'S REALISTIC AND WHAT'S NOT. 
          AND IF IT COMES, IF AT THE END OF THIS WE HAVE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE WEBSITE, THAT'S A GREAT THING FOR OTHER COMMITTEES AND COMMISSIONS TO REPLICATE ALT. 
          ALTERNATIVELY, IF WE RUN INTO MAJOR BARRIERS, WE NOW KNOW WHAT THOSE BARRIERS ARE. 
          SO IF OTHER COMMITTEES ARE STARTING TO GET FRUSTRATED WITH THEIR WEBPAGE OR HOW IT'S ENGAGED, WE CAN SHARE THAT INFORMATION AS WELL. 
          BUT I THINK WE BECOME THE TEST USE CASE IN THAT WAY. 
          AND THAT ALSO KEEPS THE SCALE OF THIS DOWN. 
          THAT'S WHY I KEPT IT AT LIKE A SIX MONTH TIMELINE. 
          YEAH. 
          I MEAN I, I DON'T HAVE KIND OF AN ALMOST AN OPINION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. 
          I'M REALLY NOT SURE HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT. 
          UM, BUT WHAT I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THE FIRST PRESENTATION, YOU KNOW, TO GET INFORMATION OUT THERE SO PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY SAY, OH, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? AND THEN THEY CAN GO AND THERE'S A GLOSSARY THAT SAYS AN OVERLAY AND THIS IS WHAT AN OVERLAY IS. 
          BUT, AND SOMETIMES, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA COMPLICATE IT BY TRYING TO CIRCUMVENT, I, I DON'T WANT TO CIRCUMVENT HAVING A GLOSSARY OR A BINDER. 
          I WANT TO WORK OFF OF IT BECAUSE ONLY SO MANY PEOPLE ARE GONNA GO, WHAT DOES AN OVERLAY MEAN? AND THEN GO, OKAY, I'LL GO INTO THE GLOSSARY. 
          A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO, WHAT DOES AN OVERLAY MEAN? GO ABOUT THEIR LIFE. 
          SOMETHING COMES UP, THEY HEAR ABOUT AN OVERLAY, SOMEONE TELLS 'EM WHAT THEY THINK AN OVERLAY IS AND THEN THERE STARTS THE CONCERN. 
          RIGHT? WHAT IF WE WANT TO BE REALISTICALLY, SEE THIS USED? WE CAN'T JUST MAKE A BINDER THAT SAYS HERE, HERE THE STUFF SAMPLE. 
          I UNDERSTAND THAT. 
          WELL I THINK YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING. 
          WE'RE STARTING WITH YOUR STARTING PLACE OF DEFINING AND FLOW CHARTING. 
          AND THEN WE'RE JUST, JUST MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR WHERE ELSE COULD THIS GO? RIGHT. 
          BECAUSE I DON'T THINK ANYONE HERE IS A UX DESIGNER THAT'S GONNA MAKE THE WEBSITE ANY WEBSITE THAT ACTUALLY IS BETTER. 
          NO. 
          UM, BUT WE CAN RECOMMEND IT TO THE CITY AND YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          AND I THINK IN TERMS OF REDOING THE WHOLE WEBSITE, THAT WOULD PROBABLY COME FROM COUNCIL AT SOME POINT. 
          WELL RIGHT, RIGHT. 
          WE NEED TO HIRE A WEB DESIGNER . 
          I MEAN, BUT I, I GUESS MY, I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M HUNG UP ON THIS, BUT, UH, MAYBE DYLAN CAN COMMENT. 
          I MEAN, I JUST, I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S ANY ISSUE AS FAR AS LEGAL ISSUES. 
          I MEAN, I, I'M A LITTLE UNCLEAR. 
          THAT'S ALL. 
          YEAH. 
          I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, PRO OR AGAINST. 
          NO, THIS GOOD. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I, I THINK AS LONG AS WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING FALLS WITHIN PLANNING COMMISSIONS, THE DUTIES THAT ARE ENUMERATED IN THE CODE THAT CITY COUNCIL'S DELEGATED TO YOU, YOU'RE ABLE TO FORM AN AD HOC COMMITTEE, UH, FOR THOSE FUNCTIONS. 
          I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA. 
          UH, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK, ANDREW'S A PRETTY RESPONSIVE GUY AND RECEPTIVE TO RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE FALLING SHORT ANYWHERE AND HEY, THIS WOULD HELP THE PUBLIC BE ENGAGED OR THIS WEBSITE COULD BE BETTER THIS WAY, UM, ANDREW WOULD BE ABLE TO, I THINK, LISTEN AND, UH, TAKE THAT TO HEART. 
          AND IT'S, INGRID VERDE, I BELIEVE IS THE ONE STAFF MEMBER THAT OVERSEES OUR WEBPAGE AND AD HOC COMMITTEES. 
          YOU'RE ABLE TO MEET WITH STAFF AT ANY TIME TOO. 
          SO I WOULD THINK MEETING WITH INGRID WOULD BE A GREAT, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T WANNA SAY FIRST STEP, BUT HEY, HERE'S WHERE THE WEBSITE COULD BE IMPROVED. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, SO I DON'T KNOW. 
          OR EVEN JUST KNOW HOW, HOW IT REALLY WAS SET UP AND WHY IT WAS SET UP THE WAY IT WAS. 
          THE ONLY LEGAL THING THAT I HEARD EARLIER WAS THE ABILITY FOR LIKE, SPECIFIC APPLICATIONS, THE PUBLIC COMMENTS. 
          THAT WOULD BE THE CITY CREATING A PUBLIC FORUM. 
          AND WE WOULD PROBABLY WANT TO, UH, MAKE CONTENT NEUTRAL REGULATION JUST TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NO SPAM AND STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          BUT WE COULD FIGURE THAT OUT TOO. 
          I MEAN, WE HAVE A FACEBOOK PAGE. 
          SO, AND THAT WOULD BE THE GOAL OF HAVING THE RECOMMENDATIONS PRESENTED BACK TO US. 
          'CAUSE THEN WE COULD FIND OUT, YEAH, OH YEAH, THAT'S DOABLE. 
          BUT, OR IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT WAS UNACCEPTABLE, I THINK IT'S, IT'S, I JUST WANT TO THROW ONE IDEA OUT HERE, OR, OR COMMENT, BECAUSE I, I SPEND A LOT OF TIME THINKING IN THE BACK OF MY MIND 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT CONSCIOUSLY. 
          REALLY . 
          BUT I, I OFTEN PONDER WHAT, WHAT IS, WHAT IS PLAN, WHAT IS 21ST CENTURY PLANNING? BECAUSE I REALLY BELIEVE THAT, THAT WE ARE, WE ARE MOVING INTO AN ERA OF PLANNING THAT IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'VE EVER DONE BEFORE. 
          [02:40:01]
WHEN WE THINK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY RESILIENCY, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT EQUITY ISSUES, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT PARTICIPATION, THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, EVEN FIVE YEARS AGO WE WEREN'T DOING SOME OF THIS, AND YET THEY'RE EMERGING AS KEY ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT TODAY. 
          AND THAT WILL FOREVER CHANGE HOW WE DESIGN COMMUNITIES. 
          I, I, I THINK ONE OF THOSE THINGS TOO IS WHAT IS THE ROLE OF PLANNING IN EDUCATING AND INFORMING THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT IS, AND I FEEL SOME OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS WHAT, HOW DO WE EDUCATE AND INFORM THE COMMUNITY? HOW DO WE DO IT ABOUT, ABOUT PROCESS AND PRACTICE, BUT THEN WHAT ARE TOOLS THAT WE CAN DO IT ABOUT PROJECT SPECIFIC EVENTS THAT MAY WARRANT AN ADDITIONAL LAYER OF COMMUNICATION MM-HMM. 
          . 
          UM, AND, AND SO I THINK MAYBE, MAYBE THE FIRST STEP IS, IS TO THINK MORE BROADLY ABOUT WHAT, WHAT DO WE WANT TO EDUCATE ABOUT AND INFORM ABOUT MM-HMM. 
           AND WHAT DOES THE COMMUNITY, WHAT ARE THEY THIRSTING FOR, RIGHT? MM-HMM. 
           AND, AND WANTING TO KNOW ABOUT. 
          AND THEN WE THINK ABOUT HOW WE DELIVER THAT. 
          BUT, BUT TO GET TO THE FIRST, THE FIRST STEP OF, OF KIND OF THE CONTENT AND THE NEED AND, AND THE ROLE OF, YOU KNOW, PLANNING TO DO IT OR THE, OR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT TO DO IT OR, OR MORE BROADLY THE CITY TO DO IT. 
          BUT IT IS, IT IS UNIQUE. 
          AND I DO THINK WE'RE AT THE, UM, WE'RE STARTING TO, TO GET OUR FEET UNDER US AS, AS PLANNERS AND AS A PROFESSION AND THINKING DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THE WORK THAT WE DO, UM, AND HOW WE DO IT IN PARTNERSHIP WITH OTHERS. 
          SO THAT'S, UH, SORT OF WHAT I'VE BEEN REFLECTING ON. 
          WHILE IT'S, IT'S KINDA LIKE THE CITY'S AND A CROSSROADS AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN THE HOTEL, THE OVERLAY, I MEAN, IT'S REALLY BUBBLED UP. 
          YEAH. 
          AND UM, YOU KNOW, AND SO I THINK IT PROBABLY IS A REALLY GOOD IDEA 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW, AN URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARY. 
          DO YOU WANNA LOOK LIKE SAN JOSE? YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE IN SUNNYVALE, YOU KNOW, WALNUT CREEK, WHEREVER YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, WALNUT CREEK'S NOT THERE, BUT UP AND DOWN THAT, YOU KNOW, AREA, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT CITY YOU'RE IN. 
          AND SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF EDUCATION THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AS THE VALUE OF AN URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARY. 
          SO WE DON'T END UP LIKE THAT. 
          BUT ALSO UNDERSTANDING INFILL COMES WITH MM-HMM. 
           YOU AN HERBA GROWTH BOUNDARY. 
          OH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          SO THERE'S QUALITY OF LIFE AND THERE'S ALL KINDS OF REASONS. 
          SO I DON'T REALLY THINK IT'S A BAD IDEA. 
          I JUST AM KIND OF TRYING TO WRAP MY ARMS AROUND FIGURING WHAT I, I KINDA LIKE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE END RESULT IS GONNA BE. 
          WELL, YOU GOTTA START TO GET TO THE END RESULT. 
          SO, NO, AND I, I, I DO APOLOGIZE BECAUSE I, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR A WHILE. 
          SO IN MY HEAD I'M LIKE, OH, WE GO HERE, THEN HERE, THEN HERE, THEN HERE. 
          AND IN MY HEAD, THERE'S A VISUAL CHART THAT I'M REFERENCING THAT IT'S NOT HELPING ANYONE ELSE. 
          SO I, I RECOGNIZE THAT IT COVERS A LOT. 
          THE REASON I'M BRINGING ALL THIS UP AT ONCE IS BECAUSE I, I MEAN, PROCESS-WISE, STAFF WILL TAKE THIS BACK AND THEN THIS HAS TO BE PRESENTED TO US TO VOTE ON, UM, AS PART OF NOTICING. 
          BUT, UH, I WANTED TO LAY OUT THE SCOPE BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE, WE GOT TO BINDER AND NOW WE NEED A NEW AD HOC TO DO THE REST. 
          I WANTED US TO BE LIKE, OKAY, WE GET TO BINDER NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OTHER STEPS WITH THE IDEA THAT YEAH, THREE MONTHS IN, PRESENT TO US, SIX MONTHS PRESENT TO US. 
          BUT HOPEFULLY MORE THAN THAT, JUST SHOWING THE PROGRESS OF IT. 
          BECAUSE MY, I'LL, I'LL GIVE A PRIME EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT POPPED UP RECENTLY. 
          I, I, I TOLD DARREN ABOUT IT. 
          TREES, UH, AND DENSITY I LIVE IN, IN A PART OF PETALUMA THAT'S INCREDIBLY DENSE. 
          NOBODY THERE BELIEVES IT'S DENSE. 
          WHY? 'CAUSE THEY HAVE A LOT OF TREES. 
          NOBODY THERE REALIZES, LIKE I HAVE ONE FRIEND OF MINE OUT THERE WHO HATES APARTMENTS, HAS NO IDEA. 
          HE'S RIGHT NEXT TO PROBABLY A GOOD 40 UNITS. 
          AND PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE TREES NEAR HIM. 
          AND THAT IS, THAT IS SUCH A ALMOST SILLY EXAMPLE, BUT I BRING IT UP TO SAY THAT AS PEOPLE ARE KIND OF, LIKE YOU SAID, BUBBLING UP AND WANTING TO REALLY, I, I DON'T EVEN THINK, YEAH, THEY WANT TO HAVE A SAY, BUT THEY WANT TO UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING AND THEY'RE HAPPENING FASTER AND FASTER. 
          IT SEEMS OUR ABILITY TO STANDARDIZE THESE COMMUNICATIONS ARE GONNA BECOME THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT. 
          'CAUSE WHAT I'M A LITTLE TIRED OF SAYING, AND I KNOW EVERYONE ELSE HERE PROBABLY IS TOO, IS LIKE THE NARRATIVE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING IS BEING WRITTEN BY OTHER PEOPLE. 
          AND A LOT OF IT, WHETHER YOU SUPPORT A THING OR NOT, F Y I IS JUST WRONG. 
          WHETHER YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF A THING OR NOT. 
          THIS IS NOT ME COMMENTING ON PEOPLE'S POSITIONS, BUT PEOP ME COMMENTING ON HOW THEY'RE CHARACTERIZING IT. 
          BUT I CAN'T EVEN GET MAD AT THEM BECAUSE I'M GOING, WELL WHAT HAVE, WHAT HAVE WE PROVIDED THAT CLARIFIES PROCESS? I'M NOT GOING, I DON'T WANT US TO SAY STAFF DO IT BETTER. 
          STAFF ARE BUSY AND THEY'RE NOT COMMUNICATIONS PEOPLE EITHER. 
          I DON'T EXPECT THE CITY TO BE 
          [02:45:01]
ABLE TO AFFORD MORE COMMS PEOPLE OR MORE COMM STAFF ROLE. 
          SO THE ONLY SOLUTION I CAN THINK OF THAT'S DOABLE IS IF WE DO AN AD HOC TO LOOK AT THIS AND TO START TO GET THIS DONE. 
          BUT I DO, I DO APOLOGIZE FOR STARTING THINGS OFF AND GOING YEAH, LET'S DO THE, LET ME EXPLAIN THE WHOLE THING IN ONE GO AND NOT HAVING IT A LITTLE MORE OUTLINED LINE. 
          BUT I HAVE MONOPOLIZED ALL OF THIS SO FAR AND I APOLOGIZE. 
          WERE THERE OTHER THINGS, FOLKS? IS IS THERE A WAY OF GETTING THIS MAYBE WRITTEN ON ONE PAGE? I MEAN, SO THIS, THERE'S SOME, BECAUSE I, I'M NOT SURE WHERE THE HELL IT'S ALL OVER THE PLACE. 
          SO, AND WITHOUT HA WITHOUT HAND MOVEMENT. 
          I LOVE HAND MOTIONS, . 
          HOW DARE YOU. 
          NO, I UNDERSTAND. 
          UM, I WAS TOLD, AGAIN, BECAUSE OF NOTICING, I, I WAS TOLD WE HAD TO HAVE THE DISCUSSION OF THE CONCEPT HERE AND THEN STAFF WOULD FORMULATE AND PRESENT BACK. 
          OTHERWISE I WOULD'VE LOVED TO HAVE BEEN LIKE, HERE'S ALL THE SHEETS OF PAPER. 
          BUT THE PUBLIC CAN'T NECESSARILY READ THE SHEETS OF PAPER. 
          SO THAT'S WHY I KEPT IT OUT. 
          UH, BUT THEORETICALLY AT OUR NEXT MEETING, THERE WOULD BE A PROPOSAL FOR US TO VOTE ON THAT PEOPLE CAN REFERENCE. 
          YES. 
          DARREN? UH, TWO OTHER IDEAS, JUST WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AD HOCS. 
          SURE. 
          UH, BECAUSE YEAH, LET ME SAY, I, I SUPPORT THAT SUPPORT, UH, ACTING AS KIND OF ADJUNCT REALLY EARLY STAGE COMM SUPPORT TO PLANNING TO BETTER COMMUNICATE WHAT PLANNING IS. 
          'CAUSE IT'S HIGHLY VISIBLE. 
          GREAT IDEA. 
          UM, AND THEN I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, I KNOW THAT HASN'T COME TO US YET, SO MAYBE THAT'S A DISCUSSION FOR WHEN IT COMES TO US AT THAT MEETING. 
          BUT I THINK AN AD HOC THAT WOULD INVOLVE, LIKE BLAKE TALKED ABOUT, SELECT COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT ARE ALREADY ENGAGED ON THIS ISSUE MIGHT BE A GREAT IDEA JUST TO PUT MORE MINDS, BRAINS AND TIME BEHIND EXAMINING THE STANDARDS. 
          UM, AND LIKEWISE, I, I REMEMBER THERE WAS TALK ABOUT AN INTERNAL DRAFT, AND MAYBE THIS IS A MOOT POINT BECAUSE WE'RE ABOUT TO HAVE A WHOLE NEW I Z O I Z O ROLLOUT, BUT, UM, DEPENDING ON HOW LONG THAT TAKES, I KNOW THERE WAS DISCUSSION PREVIOUSLY ABOUT AN INTERNAL LIST OF LIKE I E O, I DON'T WANNA SAY WEAKNESSES, BUT I E O ISSUES THAT STAFF ARE WELL AWARE OF. 
          UM, AND I'M NOT EVEN SURE YOU WOULD NEED THIS COMMITTEE'S SUPPORT FOR THAT PER SE. 
          UM, BUT IF THERE'S ANY SUPPORT ON THE I E O FRONT AS WELL, I THINK THOSE COULD BE TWO KIND OF WELL-DEFINED AD HOCS WITH A DEADLINE, UM, ESPECIALLY FOR THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, DEPENDING ON WHAT THAT TIMELINE IS. 
          SO JUST WANNA THROW THAT OUT THERE IF THAT'S SOMETHING ANY OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS WOULD BE INTERESTED IN. 
          OR, OR MAYBE IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA. 
          YOU CAN TELL ME. 
          I'M JUST GONNA GIVE JUST AN OPINION. 
          PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS ONE CITY. 
          WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE WANT DOWNTOWN. 
          YEAH. 
          BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE'RE FOCUSING ON THIS, IS ABOUT PEOPLE WANTING WHAT THEY WANT DOWNTOWN OR THEY DON'T WANT ANYTHING DOWNTOWN BECAUSE WE LIVE HERE. 
          WELL, WE ALL LIVE IN THIS CITY. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THIS IS CITYWIDE. 
          IT IS NOT JUST FOCUSED ON PEOPLE THAT MM-HMM. 
           HAVE BEEN FOCUSING ON DOWNTOWN. 
          THEY NEED TO BE, HAVE THE BIGGER PICTURE FOCUS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND THAT IS SOMETHING I DEFINITELY WOULD WANNA SEE IS, UM, NOT JUST A NARROW GROUP OF PEOPLE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , UM, BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN INVOLVED. 
          WELL THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE TOO. 
          YEP. 
          AND THERE'S 60% OF THEM LIVE ON THE EAST SIDE MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND ALL I EVER HEAR IS SHOVE IT ON THE EAST SIDE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THAT I WANT JUST SOMEBODY TO BE ON A COMMITTEE, UM, THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE BIGGER PICTURE MM-HMM. 
           AND, UM, AND REALLY UNDERSTANDS LIKE, YOU KNOW, URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARIES. 
          MM-HMM. 
           THE PURPOSE OF THOSE AND WHY THEY'RE VALUABLE. 
          MM-HMM. 
           OR, YOU KNOW, UM, SAFE STREETS. 
          WHY THAT'S VALUABLE. 
          I MEAN, IT'S NOT JUST FOCUSING ON, I FEEL LIKE THIS IS FOCUSING ON THE OVERLAY AND THE DOWNTOWN ONLY AND IT NEEDS TO BE FOCUSED TO THE ENTIRE CITY. 
          OH, YOU MEAN, AND THAT'S WHAT I WOULD JUST, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT FOR THE COMMUNICATIONS? JUST WITH COMMUNICATIONS? OH, I BROUGHT UP THE OVERLAYS. 
          THE EXAMPLE JUST BECAUSE OF THAT WAS WHAT BROUGHT UP FOR, I MEAN, IT'S THE RIGHT EXAMPLE TO BRING UP BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S KIND OF PUSHING THIS, UM, BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT DOWNTOWN. 
          IF IT WAS ABOUT ANY OTHER AREA, NOBODY HAVE CARE. 
          BUT, AND THIS GOES BACK TO HOW WE COMMUNICATE OR PUSH CONTENT OUTWARD TO PEOPLE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , THAT'S ALSO WHY I WANTED THAT ADDED IN BECAUSE TO YOUR POINT, YEAH. 
          WE'VE GOT THE FOLKS WHO ARE ACTUALLY EITHER REALLY EXCITED OR REALLY AGAINST A GIVEN THING AND A LOT OF IT, A LOT OF MISINFORMATION OUT THERE AND A LOT OF MISINFORMATION. 
          HOW DO WE GET THE FOLKS WHO HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, MAKE SURE THEY, THEY FIND IT ACCESSIBLE. 
          AND THEN TO YOUR POINT, LIKE WE'RE GONNA HAVE ANOTHER, I'M SURE WE'LL HAVE MORE PROJECTS DOWN THE ROAD THAT RUN THE DANGER OF HITTING EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT JUST SHOVE IT ON THE EAST SIDE MENTALITY. 
          AND HOW DO WE HAVE THE COMMUNICATIONS READY FOR THAT AS WELL, RIGHT. 
          TO MAKE SURE THAT FOLKS THERE CAN FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT JUST REACHING PEOPLE FROM A CERTAIN SUBSET OF THE WEST SIDE 
          [02:50:01]
OR IF THE SAME PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN ON EVERY BOARD AND COMMISSION. 
          WE ALL KNOW WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE. 
          WE LOVE THEM, BUT YEAH. 
          WELL THEY'VE NOT NECESSARILY ON EVERY, YOU KNOW, NO WE DON'T. 
          WELL,  WELL, AND, AND WHEN I SAID, YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE ALREADY ACTIVELY ENGAGED, I MEANT WITH THE ISSUE OF DESIGN STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, ARCHITECTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          I DIDN'T MEAN OUR, OUR USUAL SUSPECTS OF PEOPLE THAT SEEM TO ALWAYS BE INVOLVED WITH, WITH CITY POLITICS. 
          SO WELL, BUT IT'S EVEN WITH THE DESIGN STANDARDS, I WAS HAVING A DISCUSSION WITH, YOU KNOW, A GROUP TODAY ABOUT IT AND IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, DESIGN STANDARDS, YOU WANNA LIVE IN THE EIGHT, YOU KNOW, BACK IN THE 18 HUNDREDS OR DO YOU WANT TO COME, YOU KNOW, IT'S 2023. 
          AND SO IT'S, THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT. 
          SO, BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT SUBJECT. 
          THIS ACTUALLY RELATED TO THIS IN DESIGN STANDARDS. 
          'CAUSE FOR THE IDEA OF AN AD HOC, I HAVE A QUESTION I THINK IS IMPORTANT BEFORE WE GET TO THAT, WHICH IS HOW ARE, HOW ARE WE GOING TO HANDLE THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS? WILL IT BE ONE WORKSHOP IS GONNA BE MULTIPLE MEETINGS? HOW DID STAFF INTEND, I, I KNOW FOLKS ARE STILL WORKING ON IT, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO ALSO KNOW HOW MANY OPPORTUNITIES WILL THERE BE FOR THE PUB FOR US AND THE PUBLIC TO ENGAGE IN THIS? WELL, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WE ARE DOING, EXCUSE ME, STAKEHOLDER REVIEW MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND THAT STAKEHOLDER GROUP IS COMPRISED OF BOTH, UM, DESIGN AND LAND USE PROFESSIONALS AS WELL AS AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPERS. 
          BECAUSE THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, UH, AS I'D MENTIONED EARLIER, ARE CONSTRAINED TO QUALIFYING RESIDENTIAL PROJECTS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO, UM, THEN THE PLAN IS TO BRING IT FORWARD TO PLANNING COMMISSION FOR A STUDY SESSION. 
          UM, AND THEN IT WOULD BE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE. 
          WE WOULD BE RECEIVING COMMENT THROUGH THE STUDY SESSION, BUT OUTSIDE OF THE STUDY SESSION AS WELL, UM, IT IS A BIT CONSTRAINED BECAUSE AT THIS POINT IN TIME WE, WE ARE LOOKING AT THE FUNDING DEADLINE OF END OF THE YEAR. 
          SO IT'S, OH, IT HAS TO BE WRAPPED UP BY THE END OF THE YEAR. 
          YEAH. 
          AT LEAST HAVE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW COMPLETED BY THE YEAR'S END. 
          SO THAT, OH, SORRY. 
          UH, NO, SURE. 
          SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, WE CAN HAVE CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT'S WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW. 
          SO JUST TO GET CLARIFICATION, YOU NEED TO HAVE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW BY THE END OF THE YEAR. 
          SO BECAUSE YOU'D BE AT THE END OF FUNDING DEADLINE, WOULD THAT MEAN IF, SAY YOU HAVE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW, BUT THERE'S A, I'M NOT SAYING THERE WOULD BE, BUT THERE ARE A, A NUMBER OF CHANGES THAT ARE MM-HMM. 
           NOT SIMPLE TO MAKE NEXT YEAR YOU'D BE OUT OF FUNDS TO MAKE ANY OF THOSE CHANGES. 
          CORRECT? UH, WELL, YES. 
          THEN I WOULD HAVE TO BECOME A SPECIAL PROJECT. 
          YES. 
          SO THIS EFFECTIVELY HAS TO GO THROUGH THE BULK OF THE HEAVY LIFTING BY THE END OF YEAR. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , WHEN ARE WE LIKELY TO SEE THIS NEXT OR LIKELY TO SEE THIS AS A PLANNING COMMISSION? WELL, WE WERE HOPING, UM, TO BRING IT FORWARD OCTOBER 10TH, BUT THE STAKEHOLDER GROUP IS DOING A PRETTY INTENSIVE REVIEW. 
          OKAY. 
          AND SO IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE NOVEMBER 14TH AT THIS POINT IN TIME. 
          SO, SO WE'RE GONNA, OKAY. 
          SO WE'RE GONNA SEE IT IN NOVEMBER AND YOU'RE GONNA NEED THE BULK OF, I REALLY HOPE THE STAKEHOLDER GROUP CAN GET THROUGH ALL OF THE CHANGES THAT, OKAY. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, WELL THEN THAT GOES TO A DIFFERENT QUESTION. 
          WE WOULDN'T EVEN REALLY BE ABLE TO HAVE AN AD HOC, WE WOULDN'T, I MEAN, ON THAT TIMELINE, CAN YOU JUST, JUST FOR, I'M NOT QUITE REGISTERING, WHAT'S THE NATURE OF THE DEADLINE, THE FUNDING DEADLINE? I MEAN, WHY IS IT HAVE TO BE COMPLETE BY YEAR END? WELL, THE PROJECT WAS FUNDED THROUGH AN SB TWO GRANT FROM H C D. 
          AND SO THE, THE DEADLINE FOR COMPLETION OF THE PRO, THE SCOPE AS DESCRIBED AND AS FUNDED BY THAT PROJECT IS DECEMBER 31ST. 
          AND WHEN DID THAT GRANT, WHEN DID THAT START OR WHEN WAS THAT GRANT INITIALLY, INITIALLY ISSUED? I BELIEVE IT WAS APPROVED IN 2020 AND ISSUED IN 2021. 
          SO I'LL SAY IT'S A LITTLE CONCERNING THAT WE'RE JUST GONNA SEE IT NOW MM-HMM. 
          WHEN WE GOT IT IN 2020. 
          AND I'M SURE YOU'VE PROBABLY HEARD THAT FROM THE STAKEHOLDER GROUP, IF I HAD TO GUESS. 
          UM, SO WE'LL LITERALLY WE HAVE TO GET IT THROUGH BY DECEMBER SOME VERSION AT, AT THIS POINT, YES. 
          BUT THERE'S, THERE'S A CONVERSATION THAT CAN BE HAD AND THEY, I WOULD, I WOULD ALSO SAY THIS THOUGH, WHEN, WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS IN PLACE, THEN ANY SSB 35 OR SSB THREE 30 PROJECT THAT COMES FORWARD THAT IS SUBJECT TO OBJECTIVE STANDARDS AND YOU DON'T HAVE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS, THEN, SO THERE'S ANOTHER URGENCY THERE AS WELL. 
          IS, IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY TO UPDATE IN THE FUTURES? YEAH, I, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD, YOU COULD ADOPT BASIC OBJECTIVE STANDARDS, WHICH I THINK A LOT OF JURISDICTIONS HAVE DONE. 
          THEY'VE REALLY TAKEN THEIR DESIGN GUIDELINES AND CONER CONVERTED CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, DESIGN GUIDELINES INTO OBJECTIVE STANDARDS. 
          IT'S A 
          [02:55:01]
BIT COMPLICATED IN OUR SITUATION BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE DESIGN GUIDELINES. 
          SO, SO THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF AN ADDITIONAL LIFT THAT HAD TO BE DONE ON THE FRONT END TO ESTABLISH THE CATEGORIES OF OBJECTIVE STANDARDS. 
          BUT YOU, YOU COULD DO THAT, SO YOU COULD ESTABLISH A BASE SET OF OBJECTIVE STANDARDS AND THEN CONTINUE TO EVOLVE IT AND THEN PRESUMABLY IT WOULD EVOLVE AGAIN THROUGH THE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE AND THE UPDATE TO THE I Z O. 
          THE, THE ONE THING TO KEEP IN MIND THOUGH IS THAT IN PARTICULAR, AN SSB THREE 30 PROJECT WILL VEST WHEN ELIGIBILITY IS DETERMINATE, IS DETERMINED, AND THEN THEY HAVE SIX MONTHS TO SUBMIT THEIR, THEIR DISCRETIONARY APPLICATIONS. 
          SO YOU, YOU COULD HAVE PROJECTS THAT WOULD VEST UNDER YOUR BASE SET AND NOT NECESSARILY, UM, AS THE JURISDICTION, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF AMENDING THE STANDARDS FOR CERTAIN PROJECTS, BUT IT, WHAT WOULD THE, WHAT WOULD THE FUNDING SITUATION LOOK LIKE? BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE WE'RE MM-HMM. 
           WORKING OFF OF A FUNDING CLOCK. 
          RIGHT. 
          IF WE CAN DO A BASELINE, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO A BASELINE TO START WHERE, IF ANYTHING, WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THINGS THAT CAN BE REMOVED, NOT EVEN CHANGED AT THAT POINT. 
          MM-HMM. 
           POINT. 
          UM, I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN TERMS OF, WELL, THE GENERAL PLAN WILL CHANGE THINGS AND THE I Z O WILL LIKELY CHANGE THINGS, AND THAT WOULD'VE HAPPENED ANYWAY. 
          AND I'M ASSUMING THE FUNDING FOR THOSE CHANGES COMES FROM THE FUNDING FOR THOSE TWO PARTICULAR EFFORTS. 
          DOES THE COUNCIL THEN HAVE TO GIVE DIRECTION FOR FUNDING TO MAKE ANY MORE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO OUR, I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO ASK IS, WE CAN THEORETICALLY, AND, AND FOR ALL WE KNOW THIS IS GONNA TURN OUT TO BE GREAT, BUT JUST IN CASE THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE MIGHT WANT TO ADD, IS THIS GONNA BE A SITUATION WHERE WE CAN TALK ABOUT MAKING CHANGES, BUT IN TERMS OF FUNDING, THERE'S REALLY NOT GONNA BE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES UNTIL ANOTHER GRANT HAS BEEN BEEN OBSERVED? I, I CAN'T REALLY ANSWER THAT QUESTION. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, IT'S PRESUMABLY IF IT'S FUNDED THROUGH THE CITY, THAT WOULD COME OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND, AND THERE'S DECISIONS THAT COUNCIL MAKES WITH REGARD TO, UM, BUDGETING AND WE DON'T KNOW IF, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE GRANT OPPORTUNITIES AS WELL. 
          SO IT'S, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO SAY, UH, WHAT THAT LOOKS FOR OR LOOKS LIKE UNTIL WE KNOW WHAT IT IS THAT WE WANT TO FUND AND, AND THAT TIMEFRAME. 
          I WOULD SAY TOO, THOUGH, THAT IN TERMS OF PROJECTS COMING FORWARD, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE KNOW WELL THE CHALLENGES OF DEVELOPING IN NORTH BAY MM-HMM. 
          , YOU KNOW, RELATED TO CONSTRUCTION COSTS VERSUS RENTS AND SO FORTH, AS WELL AS THE FACT THAT INTEREST RATES ARE HAMMERING ALL DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS RIGHT NOW. 
          SO, UM, I THINK WE, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY BECAUSE OF STATE FUNDING. 
          MM-HMM. 
           THAT'S BEEN PROVIDED. 
          UM, BUT, BUT THERE IS, THERE DOES SEEM TO BE THAT WE'RE PERHAPS ENTERING INTO A LESS ACTIVE PERIOD THAN WHERE WE'VE BEEN IN THE PAST. 
          SO NOW HOW LONG WOULD THAT LAST? THAT'S HARD TO SAY, ANDREW. 
          IT, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WITH THE SB PROJECTS, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AREN'T THAT COMPLEX. 
          I MEAN, THERE'S, HOW MANY, HOW MANY COMPONENTS DO WE HAVE TO DE DETERMINE? IT'S, IT'S RESIDENTIAL HOUSING, SO, UH, YOU GOT A LIMITED NUMBER OF GUIDELINES TO WORK WITH, OR YOU HAVE TO ESTABLISH, IT'S NOT LIKE THE WHOLE WORLD. 
          SO I'M NOT SURE WHY THAT COULDN'T BE SADDLED OFF AND DEALT WITH SO THAT YOU'RE, SO THE MINISTERIAL REVIEW HAS SOME PROPER CONTEXT AND, AND I THINK, I THINK THAT'S CORRECT. 
          I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REALIZING IS WHEN, WHEN THOSE QUALIFYING RESIDENTIAL PROJECTS IN ORDER TO QUALIFY, TYPICALLY WE'LL HAVE AN AFFORDABILITY COMPONENT TO THEM. 
          SOME DON'T, BUT MM-HMM. 
          . 
          BUT, UM, BUT THEY'LL EITHER BE A HUNDRED PERCENT AFFORDABLE OR MAJORITY AFFORDABLE. 
          SO THEY ARE ALREADY CONSTRAINED BY BUDGET, UM, AND PRESENT IN A MORE CONSTRAINED MANNER AS COMPARED TO A MARKET RATE PROJECT. 
          SO WHEN WE START TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE THOSE ESSENTIAL DESIGN ELEMENTS THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO ENSURE THAT THEY'RE DONE CORRECTLY, YOU KNOW, UM, VERSUS WHAT, WHAT ARE THE WANTS? SO YOU'VE GOT YOUR KIND OF NEEDS, BUT THEN WHAT ARE THE WANTS? MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE, UM, REVIEW IS AT THIS POINT IN TIME, IS TRYING TO DISCERN BETWEEN THE NEEDS VERSUS THE WANTS, RIGHT? BECAUSE THEN WE LOOK AT IT AND SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, TO WHAT EXTENT DO THE WANTS START TO CONSTRAIN FEASIBILITY OF A PROJECT? UM, AND THEN THAT BECOMES A CONSIDERATION. 
          OR, YOU KNOW, DO WE HAVE CURRENT POLICY IN PLACE THAT THAT CAN BE, UH, 
          [03:00:01]
YOU KNOW, OBJECTIFIED, UM, THROUGH THE PROCESS IN ORDER TO BE IMPLEMENTED? UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE GOT, UH, WE'RE MOVING IN THE DIRECTION ON A LOT OF THINGS, BUT WE'RE NOT YET TO THAT POINT WHERE WE HAVE THE POLICY DOCUMENTS IN PLACE, UM, TO THEN TAKE THAT NEXT STEP TO, UM, CODIFY THEM AND CONVERT THEM TO OBJECTIVE STANDARDS. 
          SO IT'S, THERE'S A LOT IN MOTION. 
          UM, AND, AND I, I REGRET THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS, IT WAS CERTAINLY OUR DESIRE TO BE ABLE TO BRING IT FORWARD TO YOU AT THE NEXT MEETING. 
          UM, BUT THAT'S JUST PROVING TO BE, UH, A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT LIFT AT THIS POINT IN TIME. 
          I WOULD JUST SAY, GOING OFF OF THAT, IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT THEN IS THE NEEDS DOCUMENT AND AD HOC MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL POST THIS YEAR, POST NEEDS TO LOOK AT THE ONGOING, WHAT ARE THE WANTS? 'CAUSE 'CAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THAT'S GONNA TAKE QUITE A BIT LONGER TO KEEP THAT PROCESS GOING. 
          SO I COULD SEE A OBJECTIVE AD HOC ACTUALLY HAVING THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANCE JUST CONSIDERING WE WILL ONLY BE ABLE TO GET SO FAR WITH OUR STANDARDS. 
          I WAS GONNA ASK THOUGH, I RECOGNIZE YOU CANNOT GIVE, YOU CAN'T PRESENT THESE TO US AT THE NEXT MEETING. 
          THAT BEING SAID, THERE'S ALWAYS BACKGROUND MATERIALS MM-HMM. 
          , IF WE, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH THE MEETING ITSELF, UH, OR, OR JUST WHAT IS SENT TO US, THE SOONER YOU CAN START SENDING US THE BACKGROUND READING WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT THE BETTER. 
          I MEAN FROM, I KNOW FOR ME PERSONALLY, I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS BEFORE. 
          THAT'S NEVER COME UP WHILE I'VE BEEN ON PLANNING COMMISSION SINCE WE HAVEN'T HAD THEM. 
          SO ANY BACKGROUND WE CAN WORK OFF THAT'LL GIVE US, ALLOW US TO MORE EASILY DIGEST THIS. 
          'CAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PRETTY TIGHT TURNAROUND TIME, WHICH I UNDERSTAND THIS HAS TAKEN A LOT OF TIME AND A LOT OF WORK AND I RECOGNIZE THAT STAFF AND THE STAKEHOLDERS ARE DOING THE BLUNT BRUNT OF THE WORK RIGHT NOW. 
          SO I'M NOT TRAINED TO RUSH ANYBODY, BUT WHATEVER WE CAN GET THAT SOONER. 
          AND IF IT INVOLVES THE NEXT BEING, MEETING, BEING A WORKSHOP, OR AT LEAST HAVING A COMPONENT OF A WORKSHOP TO GO THROUGH, OKAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE EXPECTING, THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR, THAT WOULD BE INCREDIBLY HELPFUL. 
          OKAY. 
          SURE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND I RECOGNIZE I'M LITERALLY JUST ASKING FOR MORE WORK ON YOUR END, SO I DO APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. 
          I JUST WANT TO COMMENT ON THE GENERAL PLAN. 
          SO IS THE, THE I Z O IS BEING UPDATED WITH THE GENERAL PLAN, ISN'T THAT CORRECT? UH, THAT IS CORRECT. 
          RIGHT. 
          I THINK THAT, UM, THE, THE I Z O UPDATE WOULD BEGIN PROBABLY AS THE DRAFT GENERAL PLAN IS COMPLETING PUBLIC REVIEW. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO GET OUT TOO FAR AHEAD OF IT, BUT, BUT THERE'S WORK THAT CAN BE DONE IN ADVANCE, SORT OF THE ISSUE SPOTTING, UM, UH, REVIEWING WHAT WE'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED. 
          UM, SO, AND THEN IT WOULD EXTEND TO AFTER THE GENERAL PLAN ADOPTION, BECAUSE OF COURSE THE GENERAL PLAN WOULD HAVE TO BE ADOPTED FIRST. 
          OKAY. 
          SO I CAN'T ESTIMATE A TIMEFRAME ON THAT. 
          I, YOU KNOW, I WOULD BE HESITANT TO. 
          SURE. 
          WELL, I THINK WE HAVE, I THINK THIS WAS A GOOD DR WE'VE DRIFTED FROM THE TOPIC, BUT I'M GLAD WE DELVED INTO THIS 'CAUSE NOW WE KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT WITH THAT DISCUSSION. 
          UM, YES. 
          DARREN, WHEN CAN WE VOTE ON THE INITIAL AD HOC BLAKE PROPOSED? WHEN WOULD THAT COME BACK FOR DISCUSSION OR A, A VOTE EVENTUALLY? NEXT MEETING OR SUBSEQUENT? UM, I THINK IT'S, IT'S GOING TO BE, IT'S, IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE THE 24TH IF YOU'RE RELYING ON ME TO PUT IT TOGETHER. 
          , I WILL SIMPLY SEND YOU, I I'LL SEND YOU SOME DOCUMENTS. 
          OKAY. 
          I WILL GET THINGS STARTED. 
          I'M NOT RIGHT. 
          GONNA FORCE THAT ON STAFF. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND I CAN, WE CAN WORK OFFLINE ON THAT, SO. 
          SURE. 
          I I WOULD LOVE TO BRING IT BACK TO YOU AT THE 10TH. 
          SO IF, IF WE CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN, I CAN, I CAN GET THAT GOING. 
          PERFECT. 
          GREAT. 
          AND CHAIR, DO WE WANT TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT? I THINK, YEAH. 
          YES. 
          SORRY, I'M STILL, I'M A LITTLE STALLED 'CAUSE I'M REALIZING HOW HEAVY THOSE LAST TWO MEETINGS ARE GONNA BE FOR US. 
          YES. 
          I WOULD LOVE TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SITTING THROUGH ALL OF THIS . 
          IT'S BEEN INTERESTING. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, I JUST THOUGHT I'D FILL YOU IN ON THE AD ON THE TWO AD HOC COMMITTEES I'M ON. 
          IF I RUN OUT OF TIME, MAYBE WE CAN GET EXTRA TIME. 
          UM, ONE IS THE AD HOC COMMITTEE. 
          THAT IS THE MICRO TRANSIT COMMITTEE. 
          THERE ARE 10 MEMBERS ON THAT COMMITTEE. 
          THREE ARE FROM THE TRANSIT ADVISORY COMMITTEE. 
          FOUR ARE THE TRANSIT DEPARTMENT OF PETALUMA. 
          [03:05:01]
I'M NOT SURE IT'S LEGAL NAME OR WHATEVER. 
          UM, AND THEN THE REST ARE, UM, MYSELF AND THE SENIOR ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND THREE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON, UM, NONPROFITS IN THE CITY THAT HAVE TO DO WITH TRANSIT OR LOOKING AT NEEDS OF SENIORS OR LOW INCOME OR UM, CITY STREET USAGE. 
          UM, THERE'S A VARIETY OF REASONS WHY WE'RE ALL THERE. 
          IT STARTED BY, WE GOT, WE WERE SENT A SURVEY TO FILL OUT ABOUT WHAT WE THOUGHT WE SHOULD GET GOING ON. 
          WE WERE ALSO GIVEN ABOUT FIVE OR SIX WEBSITES TO REVIEW AND LOOK AT. 
          WE WERE ALSO GIVEN, UM, A KIND OF SYNOPSIS OF WHERE THIS WAS GOING TO GO BEFORE WE HAD OUR FIRST MEETINGS. 
          SO WE ALL SHOWED UP AT THE FIRST MEETINGS WITH KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING MICROT TRANSIT WASN'T ANYTHING THAT, EXCEPT FOR THOSE TRANSIT PEOPLE HAD EVER DEALT WITH. 
          I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE CONCEPT WAS. 
          UM, AND SO GOING ON WEBSITES AND FINDING OUT WHAT ACTUAL MICRO TRANSIT MEANT AND HOW IT WORKS AND THE, UM, HOW THERE IS, UM, APPS THAT ACTUALLY RUN MICROT TRANSITS AND WHAT THAT EFFECTS WOULD BE, UM, HOW EASY IT IS TO UTILIZE AND HOW IT WAS PUT TOGETHER. 
          WE FIGURED THAT THIS IS A FAIRLY SHORT TERM AD HOC SIX MONTHS, UM, TO GETTING TO AN ACTUAL PROPOSAL TO BE ABLE TO SEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL ON IMPLEMENTING A MICRO TRANSIT. 
          SO THAT'S THAT ONE. 
          THE SECOND MICRO TRANSIT IS ONE THAT WE STARTED IN OUR, UM, SENIOR ADVISORY COMMITTEE. 
          AND THAT IS BASICALLY A SPECIFIC, SPECIFIC PROJECT THAT WE ARE DOING. 
          WE ARE CREATING A PROPOSAL FOR A SENIOR PLAYGROUND OUTDOOR FACILITY, UM, TO BE A ADJACENT TO THE SENIOR, UM, CENTER ON AT LUCCHESI. 
          UM, AND THAT CONSISTS OF THREE PEOPLE FROM THE SENIOR ADVISORY COMMITTEE. 
          'CAUSE WE HAVE THE SAME THINGS THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT WATCHING HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ON EACH OF YOUR AD HOC COMMITTEES AND MAKING SURE THAT YOU'RE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE BROWN ACT. 
          UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE HAVE, UM, TWO PEOPLE WHO HAVE ADVISED US SO FAR BUT HAVEN'T ACTUALLY ATTENDED THE MEETINGS YET BECAUSE OF SCHEDULING PROBLEMS. BUT THEY ARE, UM, NONPROFITS AND THEN WE HAVE SOME OTHER PEOPLE WHO WOULD ACTUALLY ASK TO PUT IN INFORMATION. 
          AND THOSE WERE THINGS LIKE, UM, LET'S SEE, THE STRAIGHT SAFE STREETS GROUP. 
          UM, AND WHAT WAS THE OTHER ONE? THE OTHER ONE HAD TO DO WITH, ANYWAY, ONE OF THE OTHER LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS. 
          SO THEY HAD ALL ASKED TO PUT IN INFORMATION ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL THAT WE WERE DOING. 
          UM, AND SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THE AD HOCS ARE IN A PRACTICAL POINT OF VIEW RIGHT NOW FOR THOSE TWO THINGS. 
          THEY'RE REALLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU'RE, YOU GUYS ARE ADDRESSING. 
          'CAUSE YOU'RE LIKE INVENTING THE WHEEL WHERE YOU'RE AT. 
          YOU'RE JUST LIKE STARTING FROM, YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING RIGHT NOW TO WORK ON. 
          WE HAD PROJECTS THAT WE WERE GOING TO WORK ON, BUT HOW THAT'S HOW THOSE GOT PUT TOGETHER. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          THAT'S VERY HELPFUL. 
          OH, NO WORRIES. 
          UM, WELL WITH THAT IN MIND, I THINK WE CAN CLOSE THIS ITEM. 
          UH, I WANNA APOLOGIZE TO THE COMMISSION. 
          I KNOW THE LAST MEETING YOU GUYS GOT OUT IN A QUICK HOUR AND WE ARE SO FAR PAST THAT. 
          BUT, UH, WE WILL NOW GO INTO COMMISSIONER COMMENT. 
          [COMMITTEE COMMENT]
UH, I, I HA HAVE SOMETHING THAT I THINK COULD BE USEFUL, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF EVERYONE'S BANDWIDTH IS IN A PLACE TO WANT TO HEAR IT RIGHT NOW. 
          UH, WE JUST FINISHED UP THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION AND I PUT TOGETHER, UH, A FAIRLY COMPREHENSIVE LIST, WHICH ISN'T MUCH RIGHT NOW OF HOUSING BILLS THAT HAVE COME OUT AND BEEN SIGNED. 
          JUST SO WE HAVE A KIND OF A FORECAST. 
          I CAN SAVE THAT FOR THE NEXT MEETING IF FOLKS JUST WANT TO GET OUT OF HERE EARLIER. 
          YEAH, I'LL SAVE THAT FOR THE NEXT MEETING. 
          UH, WITH THAT, DOES ANYBODY HAVE 
          [STAFF COMMENT]
A COMMENT? I'LL JUST QUICKLY SAY, I WAS IN SACRAMENTO AT THE LEAGUE OF CALIFORNIA CITIES AND SO THERE WERE, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT FORUMS THAT YOU WENT TO. 
          IT WAS INFORMATIVE AND ESPECIALLY THE ONE ON HATE. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, AND, AND WOMEN OF COLOR. 
          MM-HMM. 
          YOU KNOW, WHETHER THEY'RE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS OR THEY'RE CITY MANAGERS AND JUST, IT WAS AN INTERESTING CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW THEY'RE TREATED VERSUS, UM, IF IT WAS A MAN OR IF IT WAS A WHITE PERSON VERSUS SOMEBODY OF COLOR. 
          AND IT WAS, THEY WERE REALLY VERY GOOD FORUMS. AND THEN OF COURSE THERE WAS A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, INTERCONNECTING WITH PEOPLE, UM, WHICH WAS ALWAYS 
          [03:10:01]
GREAT. 
          AND I JUST REALLY WANT TO THANK NICOLA, UM, FOR THAT DISCUSSION JUST ON THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT. 
          I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AND IT'S GREAT THAT SENIOR CITIZENS ARE RECOGNIZING, YOU KNOW, THE FUTURE. 
          AND I JUST REALLY APPRECIATE IT AND I HEAR THAT SHE'S A POWERHOUSE ON HER COMMITTEES AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. 
          AND THIS, UM, SATURDAY, I THINK THE SEVENTH IS THE RIP CITY WRITERS AT THE FAIRGROUNDS AND IT'S FREE TO GET IN, YOU PAY FOR FOOD AND STUFF, BUT IT SHOULD BE FUN FOR, YOU KNOW, FAMILIES AND YOU KNOW, ANYBODY. 
          AND SO I'VE NEVER BEEN TO ONE, BUT, UM, THEY WERE ON OUR RADIO SHOW ON FRIDAY, UM, TALKING ABOUT IT AND I I WENT TO LAST YEAR'S. 
          THEY'RE REALLY GOOD. 
          YEAH. 
          AND SO I THINK IT SHOULD BE REALLY GREAT. 
          AND THEY DO A LOT OF GOOD THINGS, DONATIONS TO THE POLY CLASS CENTER AND MANY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS. 
          AND SO I JUST ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO GO TO THE, UM, FAIRGROUNDS SATURDAY. 
          AND THEN IT'S MY 50TH CLASS REUNION, WHICH IS SATURDAY NIGHT AND IT'S LIKE, OH MY GOD. 
          HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? I JUST GRADUATED YESTERDAY FROM PETALUMA HIGH. 
          NOW IT'S BEEN 50 YEARS. 
          GOD, WELL I'M, I MEAN, CONGRATULATIONS AND  WITH, OH, COMMISSIONER DARREN, DID YOU WANT TO, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT ROGER, JUST MAKING SURE HE WANTED TO DO A TREE COMMITTEE UPDATE. 
          YEAH, VERY, UH, BRIEFLY, UM, ONE OF THE DISCUSSIONS WAS HOW TO CELEBRATE ARBOR DAY AND WHEN AND WHERE WE'RE GONNA DO THAT. 
          AND, AND, UH, STAFF IS GONNA COME UP WITH SOME OPTIONS AND WE'RE GONNA MOVE THAT FURTHER ALONG. 
          BUT, UM, THE QUESTION IS WHAT, WHAT LEVEL OF CELEBRATION DO WE NEED TO DO AND WHAT, AND THEN WHAT DATE DO WE DO IT? UM, THERE'S ALSO A, A STREET TREE CITY OFFICIAL CITY LIST OF STILL BEING RE IN IN PROCESS. 
          THAT'S NOT, SOMEHOW IT DOESN'T GET DONE. 
          I'M NOT SURE HOW WE CAN MOVE IT, BUT IT IS GETTING THERE. 
          UM, AND WE ALSO HAD ATTENDED A, UM, WE WERE ALL THERE AT A, UH, PRESENTATION BY THE CITY ARBORISTS OR THE ARBORISTS THAT THE CITY'S USING REGARDING, UH, THE INVENTORY STATUS OF INVENTORY OF THE TREES, MOSTLY IN PUBLIC PARKS. 
          UH, AND SORT OF THE BEGINNING OF AN EVALUATION OF THE ORDINANCE, THE TREE ORDINANCE AND HOW TO PUT THAT TOGETHER. 
          UH, WERE THE BIGGEST, UH, ISSUE BEING THE TREE REMOVAL, LACK OF CONTROL OF TREE REMOVAL AND LACK OF ENFORCEMENT, A LACK OF ABILITY TO SLAP HANDS AND ALL OF THAT. 
          SO THAT'S ALL IN PROCESS. 
          YOU WANNA ADD TO THAT, DARREN? NO, YOU COVERED IT. 
          URBAN FORESTRY MANAGEMENT PLAN. 
          BIG GRANT THE CITY HAD, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE GONNA BE ON THE RIGHT TIMELINE, BUT AGAIN, WE'RE KIND OF COMING UP ON A DEADLINE THERE. 
          AND THE TREE ORDINANCES, WE LEARNED MUCH TO OUR, UH, UH, PLEASURE WAS THAT IT'S NOT JUST ONE ORDINANCE. 
          WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT THE I Z O, BUT ALSO THE MUNICIPAL CODE. 
          ALL THE PLACES WHERE TREES SHOW UP TO KINDA HAVE SOME UNIFIED POLICY. 
          NICE, UH, DEAL WITH SOME OF THE ISSUES THERE WITH THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY BEING THE HUGE, UH, UH, AREA THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE SOME DECISIONS ON. 
          UH, AND THEN I JUST WANT TO REMIND, I THINK I MENTIONED AT THE LAST MEETING, BUT I DIDN'T MENTION, UH, PBA C ON SEPTEMBER 6TH. 
          JUST A GREAT MEETING TO WATCH. 
          WE LOOKED AT SCANNELL AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME CHANGES TO THE ACTUAL LAYOUT. 
          UH, THEY CHOSE ONE OF THE ONES BASED ON OUR, UH, MEETING, BUT THEY ACTUALLY GOT RID OF ONE OF THE STREETS AND PUT IN A GREENWAY. 
          AND, UH, ANYWAY, I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD UPDATE ON SCANNELL BEFORE IT COMES BACK TO US VICE MAYOR. 
          I JUST WANNA THANK EVERYBODY FOR ALL OF THEIR SERVICE 'CAUSE IT'S GREAT AND I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THE TREE ORDINANCE AND I'M GLAD IT'S GOING A LOT DEEPER THAN JUST AN ORDINANCE. 
          I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT AND THERE'S A LOT OF ORDINANCES ARE GONNA HOPEFULLY BE COMING IN 2024, UH, FOR CHANGES BECAUSE IT'S WELL OVERDUE AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT. 
          SO JUST THANK EVERYBODY FOR YOUR SERVICE. 
          I MEAN, IT'S A LOT OF WORK AND, UM, AND YOU DO A FANTASTIC JOB. 
          WELL, SINCE WE'VE ALREADY GONE THIS FAR AND THE END OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION WAS A LOT, LOT, I'M JUST GONNA GIVE YOU A FEW BILLS TO KEEP IN MIND. 
          UH, SSB 4 69, WHICH WAS SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR, IT'S GOING TO LIMIT THE RESTRICTIONS ON PUBLICLY FUNDED AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNDER ARTICLE 34. 
          ARTICLE 34 OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION, UH, WAS CREATED BACK IN THE 1950S AS A BACKLASH TO INTEGRATION. 
          SO IT HAS EFFECTIVELY MADE IT A REQUIREMENT THAT FUNDING FOR LOW RENT HOUSING PROJECTS FROM THE PUBLIC WOULD REQUIRE VOTER INITIATIVE SO EFFECTIVELY TO DESTROY PUBLIC. 
          OH YES, I SEE. 
          YOU'RE LIKE, YEAH. 
          DESTROY PUBLIC HOUSING. 
          THIS BILL THANKFULLY MINIMIZES THIS SO 
          [03:15:01]
THAT, UH, ALL STATE FUNDING ON PRIVATELY, PRIVATELY ORIENTED PROJECTS THAT ARE LOW RENT AFFORDABLE HOUSING WITH STATE FUNDS ARE NO LONGER INCLUDED. 
          THE EXCITEMENT FOR THIS IS THIS OPENS UP A WHOLE HOST OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FUNDS THAT WOULDN'T HAVE EXISTED BEFORE FOR MUNICIPALITIES WITHOUT SOME KIND OF EITHER LOCAL OR STATE ELECTION. 
          UH, AND THERE WILL BE A, I DON'T HAVE THE THE NUMBER YET, BUT THERE WILL BE A PROPOSITION ON THE BALLOT TO REPEAL ARTICLE 34 ALTOGETHER. 
          SO THIS COULD OPEN UP A LOT OF DOLLARS FOR CITIES LIKE PETALUMA. 
          UH, AB 1307, SPEAKING OF C Q A, UH, CODIFIES ACTUALLY CODIFIES AGAINST, UH, COURT PRECEDENTS. 
          SO, UH, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA TRIED TO BUILD SOME RESIDENTIAL HOUSING. 
          UH, THE CITIES WERE ABLE TO SUE THE PROJECT SAYING THAT EFFECTIVELY THE NOISE REPRESENTED AN UNINTENDED POLLUTANT UNDER C A. 
          SO THEY EQUATED POTENTIAL NOISE WITH POLLUTION AND WERE ABLE TO STOP THE PROJECT THAT WAY UNDER A COURT RULING. 
          UH, AB 1307 KNOCKS THAT OFF. 
          SO YOU CAN NO LONGER ABUSE C Q A THAT WAY AND YOU CAN'T USE WHAT THEY CONSIDER UNAMPLIFIED VOICES AS A REASON TO GET RID OF A PROJECT. 
          UH, JUST MOVING THROUGH THIS QUICKLY, UH, ONE THING TO WATCH OUT FOR AS SB 4 23, IT IS THE EXTENSION OF SB 35. 
          THE GOVERNOR HAS NOT SIGNED IT YET. 
          THERE WERE A FEW CHANGES I DID WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT ARE RELEVANT FOR ALL OF US. 
          UH, ASIDE FROM EXTENDING THE CURRENT MINISTERIAL REVIEW PROCESS FROM, IT WOULD'VE SUNSET IN 2026. 
          IT'LL NOW SUNSET IN 2036. 
          UH, IT DOES CHANGE WHO THE GOVERNING BODY IS THOUGH WHEN LOOKING AT KIND OF THE REVIEW PROCESS. 
          SO INSTEAD OF IT BEING THE MUNICIPALITY, WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN THE PLANNING MANAGER, COULD HAVE BEEN A PLANNING, A PLANNING COMMISSION, COULD HAVE BEEN THE COUNCIL, YOU HAD A LOT OF DISCRETION THERE. 
          IT IS NOW ONLY GOING TO FALL UNDER THE PLANNING MANAGER OR EQUIVALENT POSITIONS DISCRETION TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE PROJECT MEETS MINISTERIAL AND WHETHER OR NOT IT'S FOLLOWING OUR OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS. 
          IT ALSO LIMITS THE TIME. 
          SO NOW THEY ONLY HAVE 45 DAYS TO GET THROUGH THIS, UH, WHICH ACTUALLY MIGHT MAKE HAVING A NEEDS-BASED OBJECTIVE REVIEW STANDARD THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT. 
          UM, ANOTHER THING TO POINT OUT THAT ISN'T A BIG DEAL FOR PETALUMA, BUT IS A BIG DEAL FOR SONOMA COUNTY. 
          UH, MOST OF THE FIRE EXEMPTIONS HAVE BEEN REMOVED. 
          AND IN FACT IT REFERS BACK TO, AND I ACTUALLY KNOW THIS PART OF THE POLICY WELL BECAUSE I I WORKED ON VERSIONS OF IT THAT ARE NOW GONE. 
          BUT, UH, IT'S REFERRING TO SOME FIRE STANDARDS THAT SB 35 REFERRED TO THAT DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST UNDER STATE LAW. 
          SO EFFECTIVELY SPEAKING, THERE ARE QUITE A FEW PROJECTS THAT CAN GO IN PLACE AS THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS GOING IN IN SONOMA COUNTY. 
          UH, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A CONCERN FOR US DIRECTLY, BUT SINCE WE ARE THE PLACE WHERE MOST PEOPLE GO WHEN THERE IS A LARGE FIRE, IT DOES IMPACT US INDIRECTLY. 
          UH, AND FINALLY, I JUST WANTED TO, UH, POINT OUT FOR FOLKS WHO ARE FOLLOWING WHAT CITIES ARE DOING FOR JUST CAUSE, UH, AB 12 DID PASS TO THE ASSEMBLING SENATE. 
          THE GOVERNOR'S LOOKING AT IT NOW, IT WOULD CAP RENTAL DEPOSITS TO ONE MONTH'S RENT UNLESS THE LANDLORD ONLY OWNED TWO OR FEWER UNITS. 
          SO THAT COULD BE A BIG CHANGE FOR SOME FOLKS HERE. 
          UH, I WILL SAVE THE REST FOR THE NEXT MEETING, BUT QUITE A FEW HOUSING BILLS HAVE GONE THROUGH. 
          BY THE NEXT MEETING WE'LL SEE WHAT'S ACTUALLY BEEN KILLED OR WHAT'S ACTUALLY BEEN PASSED. 
          UH, UNFORTUNATELY IN MOST CASES, A LOT OF THEM ARE TAKING, AS OPPOSED TO GIVING LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES AUTHORITY ON HOUSING. 
          SO THAT'S ALSO WHY I'M PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS, JUST SO THAT WE HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT THINGS WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR WITH FUTURE PROJECTS. 
          AND WITH THAT, UNLESS THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, I'M GONNA GAVEL THIS MEETING CLOSED. 
          DO YOU WANNA CHAIR, DO YOU WANNA UPDATE ON UPCOMING MEETINGS? I WOULD LOVE AN UPDATE ON UPCOMING MEETINGS BECAUSE I ASKED YOU ABOUT IT SPECIFICALLY. 
          LET ME HAVE MY MOMENT PLEASE. 
          , I THINK YOU'VE HAD A LOT OF MOMENTS, SIR. 
          . 
          SO VERY QUICKLY, UH, LET'S SEE. 
          OYSTER COVE, WHICH, UH, WAS REVIEWED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON MAY WAS, UH, REVIEWED AND UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED. 
          UH, FIRST READING BY COUNSEL, UM, ON, LET'S SEE, WHEN DID SEPTEMBER 18TH? IT RECEIVES ITS SECOND, UM, READING VIA CONSENT AGENDA, UH, ON OCTOBER 2ND. 
          THEN ON OCTOBER 3RD, THE, UM, THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY DRAFT, UH, WITH REVISIONS TO DATE IS, UM, AGENDIZED FOR REVIEW BY H C P C. 
          SO THAT WILL HAPPEN BEGINNING AT 4:00 PM OCTOBER 10TH. 
          PLANNING COMMISSION HAS THE SCOTT RANCH RED BARN COMPLEX LANDMARK DESIGNATION, RECOMMENDED RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL COMING BEFORE YOU. 
          SO 
          [03:20:01]
THAT WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY, UM, TO PERHAPS ADD SOME OTHER WORKSHOP DISCUSSION ITEMS ONTO THAT MEETING. 
          BUT THEN WE GO TO OCTOBER 24TH AND TENTATIVELY AGENDIZED IS, UM, THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY JOINT REVIEW BY PLANNING COMMISSION AND H C P C. 
          WE ALSO HAVE TENTATIVELY AGENDIZED 5,400 OLD REDWOOD HIGHWAY PREZONING FOR ANNEXATION. 
          UM, AND IF WE ARE ABLE TO, TO BRING FORWARD THE OBJECTIVE, UH, DEVELOPMENT AND DESIGN STANDARDS IN SOME FORM, WE WOULD DO THAT AS WELL. 
          IF THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY DOES, UH, UM, CONTINUE TO TRACK, THEN WE WOULD DROP THE, UH, PREZONING FOR ANNEXATION TO A LATER DATE. 
          BUT THEN ON NOVEMBER 14TH, UH, WE DO HAVE TENTATIVELY AGENDIZED OBJECTIVE DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. 
          UH, WE WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT WOULD BE AN ENTIRE MEETING, BUT THEN WE GO TO NOVEMBER 28TH FOR SPIRIT LIVING SPAR, UM, WHICH, UH, WE ANTICIPATE WILL BE COMING BACK AT THAT TIME. 
          AND THEN, UM, I'M SURE BY, BY THAT POINT IN TIME, THERE WILL BE A COUPLE OF OTHER ITEMS, UH, RELATED TO ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS THAT'LL BE READY TO COME FORWARD. 
          AND I, I JUST WANTED TO THANK ANDREW FOR DOING THIS. 
          ALL OF THIS IS A TENTATIVE ROADMAP. 
          I'M ALS I'M SAYING THIS FOR ANYBODY WHO MIGHT BE WATCHING THIS NOW OR ON YOUTUBE LATER. 
          SOMETIMES THESE THINGS CHANGE AND AS WE LEARN TODAY ABOUT THE PROCESS, IT HAS TO CHANGE QUITE FREQUENTLY. 
          UH, IT IS NOT EASY FOR STAFF TO MAP THIS OUT IN A DIGESTIBLE FORMAT. 
          SO I'M GLAD THAT I THINK THE LAST LIKE FIVE MEETINGS, YOU'VE CONSISTENTLY DONE THIS FOR US AND IT'S VERY HELPFUL. 
          SURE. 
          SO THANK YOU AGAIN, AND IT'S MY PLEASURE. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          WITH THAT IN MIND, I'M GONNA ADJOURN THIS MEETING TONIGHT. 
          THANK YOU EVERYONE.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.