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[CALL TO ORDER]
IT IS 6 0 3.GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THE FOURTH MEETING OF THE PUBLIC RECORDING IN PROGRESS.
GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THE FOURTH MEETING OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 23RD, 2024.
IF YOU WISH TO PROVIDE A PUBLIC COMMENT ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA, PLEASE FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD IN THE BACK OF THE CHAMBER AND BRING IT TO THE COMMITTEE CLERK.
AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE CLERK TO TAKE ROLL KEARNEY HERE.
AND WE HAVE THREE ABSENT, UH, FOX, ALBERTA AND, UH, SULLIVAN, BUT WE MAY QUORUM.
UM, AT THIS TIME I'D LIKE TO LEAD THE COMMITTEE ON A PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
DURING GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO MAKE COMMENTS ON ITEMS OF PUBLIC INTEREST THAT ARE WITHIN THE COMMITTEE'S SUBJECT MATTER JURISDICTION, AND THAT ARE NOT LISTED ON THE CURRENT AGENDA.
PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED UP TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON.
DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF PERSONS WISHING TO ADJUST.
THE COMMITTEE TIME WILL BE ALLOCATED IN EQUAL SHARES TOTALING NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES.
UH, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE CLERK IF WE RECEIVED ANY COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING.
WE RES RECEIVED ZERO GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING.
I'D LIKE TO, UH, CLOSE GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT AND CONTINUE WITH THE AGENDA.
OH, WE DO HAVE SOMEBODY IN THE AUDIENCE SO I CAN, UH, DOUBLE CHECK.
SO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC SHOULD BRING THEIR SPEAKER CARDS TO THE CLERK'S TEXT IF THEY'VE NOT ALREADY DONE SO.
I'M REMINDED TO BE RESPECTFUL.
UM, AN COUNTDOWN WILL APPEAR FOR THE CONVENIENCE OF THE SPEAKER AND THE VIEWERS.
UM, AT THIS TIME I'D LIKE TO CLOSE GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT AND CONTINUE WITH THE AGENDA.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
UH, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO THE APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR THE MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 25TH, 2024.AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE TO ASK IF THERE ARE ANY CHANGES OR CORRECTIONS TO THE MINUTES FROM THAT MEETING.
POST K AYE, UH, PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.
[PRESENTATIONS]
UM, AT THIS TIME I'D LIKE TO MOVE ON TO THE FIRST AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS OUR PRESENTATION ON THE RACIAL AND IDENTITY PROFILING ACT, RIPA OR RIPPA FROM DR.UH, I'D LIKE TO OPEN THE PRESENTATION ITEM AND ASK CHIEF MILLER AND STAFF TO INTRODUCE THE TOPIC.
AND I'LL ACTUALLY DEFER TO LIEUTENANT AVIANO, WHO'S COORDINATED AND ARRANGED FOR DR.
FIDEL TO BE THE PRESENTER THIS EVENING FOR US.
LORD FIDEL, UM, IS RENOWNED AS, UM, PROFESSOR FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN FLORIDA, AND SHE'S JOINING US FROM TAMPA TONIGHT, UH, TO PROVIDE A PRESENTATION ON, UM, STOP OR DISPARITY DATA.
AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO DR.
WELL, I'M VERY PLEASED TO BE WITH YOU THIS EVENING.
AS YOU HEARD, I'M JOINING YOU FROM FLORIDA, ALTHOUGH I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA.
BUT LET ME TELL YOU, HOUSING AND, UH, GAS MONEY GO A LOT FURTHER HERE.
WE'RE PAYING $3 AND 47 CENTS A GALLON RIGHT NOW, BUT WE PAY OUR DUES IN BACK TO BACK HURRICANES, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WE JUST HAD.
SO LEMME SAY THAT, FIRST OF ALL, I'M VERY IMPRESSED THAT THE PSAC EXISTS IN PETALUMA.
THIS REFLECTS AN IMPORTANT PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE POLICE AND THE COMMUNITY.
AND I'M ALSO IMPRESSED THAT THE MEMBERS WANTED A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO INTERPRET THE VARIOUS FORMS OF DISPARITY DATA THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED OR THAT YOU WILL RECEIVE.
AND I USE THE TERM DISPARITY DATA TO REFER TO ANY POLICE
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ACTIVITY DATA THAT IS ANALYZED BY RACE AND ETHNICITY.SO IN PETALUMA, YOU KNOW, THAT INCLUDES THE USE OF FORCE DISPARITY DATA IN THE REPORT YOU RECEIVED FROM THE INDEPENDENT AUDITOR.
AND IT ALSO INCLUDES THE VEHICLE AND PEDESTRIAN STOP DATA THAT I UNDERSTAND YOU WILL BE RECEIVING IN 2025.
NOW, DISPARITY DATA ARE GENERALLY COLLECTED WITH THE ASPIRATION OF DETERMINING WHETHER AND TO WHAT EXTENT POLICE BIAS IS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ACTIVITY.
SO THERE'S GOING TO BE TWO PARTS OF MY PRESENTATION.
ONE TALKING ABOUT THE CHALLENGES OF INTERPRETING DISPARITY DATA, BUT ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE PROSPECTS FOR USING DATA.
AND THEN PART TWO, THE THEME IS IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE DATA.
SO LET'S START WITH THE CHALLENGES.
AND YOU DO HAVE A HANDOUT, I HOPE, IN FRONT OF YOU.
AND JUST TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES, LET'S START WITH THE USE OF FORCE DATA THAT YOU RECEIVED FROM THE INDEPENDENT AUDITOR.
AND THE INDEPENDENT AUDITOR BROKE DOWN THE USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS BY RACE AND ETHNICITY.
THERE WERE 61 INCIDENTS IN 2023.
AND FIGURE ONE, THOSE, THOSE PERCENTAGES ADD UP TO CLOSE TO 199%.
SO BASICALLY WHAT WE SEE IS 49% OF THOSE USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS INVOLVE WHITE SUBJECTS, 33% HISPANIC AND SO FORTH.
NOW, BY ITSELF, THIS INFORMATION IS NOT VERY ILLUMINATING, CERTAINLY NOT ON THE TOPIC OF BIAS.
SO A COMMON WAY TO TRY TO MAKE THIS INFORMATION MORE USEFUL IS TO BENCHMARK IT.
THAT IS WE COMPARE THE RACIAL BREAKDOWN TO SOME OTHER SOURCE OF RELEVANT RACE ETHNICITY DATA.
SO THAT BRINGS US TO FIGURE TWO.
FIGURE TWO BENCHMARKS THE FORCE DATA AGAINST RESIDENTIAL CENSUS DATA FOR PETALUMA.
SO THE BLUE BARS IN THAT FIGURE ARE EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAW IN FIGURE ONE.
THOSE ARE THE BREAKDOWN, THE RACE AND ETHNICITY OF THE USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS.
AND THEN THE ORANGE IS THE CENSUS DATA, THE RACIAL BREAKDOWN FOR THE CENSUS DATA.
SO THIS TYPE OF, THIS TYPE OF FIGURE CAN SHOW US DISPARITIES.
SO FOR INSTANCE, WE SEE THAT HISPANIC AND LATINO INDIVIDUALS ARE SUBJECT TO USE OF FORCE DISPROPORTIONATE TO THEIR REPRESENTATION IN THE RESIDENTIAL POPULATION.
AND WE SEE THE SAME THING FOR BLACK INDIVIDUALS.
BUT DRAWING BIAS CONCLUSIONS FROM SUCH DATA MAKES VARIOUS ASSUMPTIONS, INCLUDING THESE, IT ASSUMES EVERYONE WITH WHOM PPD OFFICERS INTERACT IS A PETALUMA RESIDENT.
IT ALSO ASSUMES THAT EVERYONE IN THE CITY IS AT EQUAL RISK OF HAVING FORCED USED AGAINST THEM, AND THAT IS FALSE.
SO THAT LEADS ME TO THE FIRST KEY THEME OF MY PRESENTATION.
IT'S VERY EASY TO MEASURE DISPARITY.
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, HOWEVER, TO IDENTIFY WHETHER AND TO WHAT EXTENT BIAS CONTRIBUTES TO THAT DISPARITY.
LET'S LOOK AT THE USE OF FORCE GENDER DATA TO MAKE THAT POINT.
SO IN FIGURE THREE, THE BLUE LINES SHOW THE USE OF FORCE DATA.
SO WE SEE THAT 78% OF THOSE 61 USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS IN 2023 INVOLVED MALE SUBJECTS, 22% INVOLVED FEMALE.
AND THE CENSUS BREAKDOWN IS A VERY CLEAR 50 50.
MALES ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY REPRESENTED IN FORCE INCIDENTS RELATIVE TO THEIR REPRESENTATION IN THE POPULATION.
BUT FEW PEOPLE WOULD LOOK AT THESE DATA AND IMMEDIATELY ASSUME THAT THERE'S BIAS, YOU KNOW, GENDER BIAS IN POLICE USE OF FORCE, BECAUSE INSTEAD WE CAN THINK OF SOME LEGITIMATE FACTORS.
AND BY THAT I MEAN FACTORS OTHER THAN BIAS, LEGITIMATE FACTORS THAT MIGHT EXPLAIN THIS DISPARITY.
FOR INSTANCE, MAYBE THE POLICE INTERACTIONS WITH MALES IN PETALUMA ARE MORE LIKELY TO INVOLVE SERIOUS CRIMES, INCLUDING CRIMES OF VIOLENCE.
THAT'S CERTAINLY TRUE NATIONALLY.
MAYBE MALES IN PETALUMA ARE MORE LIKELY TO RESIST THE POLICE PHYSICALLY THAN FEMALES.
WHILE IT'S EASY TO MEASURE DISPARITY, IT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY AND MEASURE THE CAUSES OR THE SOURCES OF THAT DISPARITY.
SOME CAUSES ARE LEGITIMATE, SOME IS BIAS.
FIGURE FOUR IS JUST A VISUAL CONCEPTUALIZATION OF MY THEME, NOT BASED ON ANY REAL DATA, BUT BASICALLY IT SAYS I, 'CAUSE I'M
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A SOCIAL SCIENTIST, I CAN EASILY TELL YOU HOW MUCH DISPARITY THERE IS IN THIS PARTICULAR FIGURE, IT'S 6.8.BUT WHAT'S VERY DIFFICULT IS TO PARSE OUT HOW MUCH OF THAT IS LEGITIMATE FACTORS, HOW MUCH IS BIAS? SO THAT LEADS US TO ASK WHAT ARE SOME POSSIBLE LEGITIMATE FACTORS THAT COULD PRODUCE RACIAL DISPARITIES? AND WE'LL START WITH USE OF FORCE.
SO FIRST AND FOREMOST, YOU KNOW, POLICE INTERACT WITH PEOPLE WHO COMMIT CRIME.
AND I COME TO YOU AS A CRIMINOLOGIST.
AND WE HAVE DETERMINED PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY REPRESENTED AMONGST PEOPLE WHO COMMIT STREET CRIMES.
NOW OF COURSE, CRIMINOLOGISTS HAVE LOOKED INTO THAT IN DEPTH.
RACE IS NOT THE CAUSAL FACTOR.
INSTEAD THIS IS LINKED TO SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS.
AND I'LL BE USING SES SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS.
WE KNOW PEOPLE OF COLOR IN THIS COUNTRY ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY REPRESENTED AMONG PEOPLE IN THE LOW SES.
AND PEOPLE IN THE LOW SES ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY REPRESENTED AMONG PEOPLE WHO COMMIT STREET CRIME.
NOW WE KNOW THAT THE ASSOCIATION BETWEEN RACE AND SES IS LINKED TO A LONG HISTORY DISCRIMINATION, DIFFERENTIAL ACCESS TO EDUCATION, OBSTACLES TO GENERATIONAL WEALTH.
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE, PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY REPRESENTED AMONGST PEOPLE WHO COMMIT STREET CRIME, WHICH MEANS THEY'RE GOING TO BE DISPROPORTIONATELY INVOLVED IN POLICE INTERACTIONS THAT MIGHT PRODUCE FORCE ALSO.
AND WE'RE TALKING HERE ABOUT LEGITIMATE FACTORS THAT MIGHT PRODUCE RACIAL DISPARITIES IN FORCE DATA.
SOME RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT DEMOGRAPHIC GROUPS VARY BY THE EXTENT TO WHICH THEY RESIST POLICE INTERVENTION.
AND OF COURSE IT'S THAT RESISTANCE THAT JUSTIFIES USE OF FORCE.
SO FOR INSTANCE, RESEARCH FINDS MALES RESIST MORE THAN FEMALES.
AND THERE'S SOME RESEARCH HAS FOUND THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE MORE LIKELY TO RESIST.
AND THIS COULD BE DUE TO THE LONGSTANDING CHALLENGES, TO PUT IT LIGHTLY, THAT BETWEEN PEOPLE OF COLOR AND POLICE, YOU CERTAINLY HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF, UH, CHALLENGES IN THAT RELATIONSHIP.
ALL RIGHT, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGITIMATE FACTORS THAT MIGHT PRODUCE DISPARITY.
AND YOU'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT THE VEHICLE AND PEDESTRIAN STOP DATA.
SO WE TALK ABOUT THE PEDESTRIAN STOPS.
AND FOR THE MOST PART, THESE STOPS ARE GONNA BE SITUATIONS WHERE THE POLICE HAD REASONABLE SUSPICION THAT POLICE ACTIVITY WAS AFOOT.
AND AS YOU MAY KNOW, REASONABLE SUSPICION IS A LEVEL OF EVIDENCE THAT'S BELOW PROBABLE CAUSE.
SO CERTAINLY BIAS COULD IMPACT THE DECISIONS TO STOP PEDESTRIANS, BUT ALSO PEOPLE ENGAGED IN CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ARE LEGITIMATELY MORE LIKELY TO BE STOPPED.
AND THAT BRINGS US BACK TO THE PREVIOUS COMMENT.
PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY REPRESENTED AMONGST PEOPLE WHO COMMIT STREET CRIME.
SO DIFFERENTIAL CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR IS A LEGITIMATE FACTOR THAT COULD PRODUCE DISPARITIES IN THE PEDESTRIAN OPS VEHICLE STOPS.
WHAT ARE SOME LEGITIMATE FACTORS THAT COULD PRODUCE VEHICLE STOP DISPARITIES? AND HERE AGAIN, THE ASSOCIATION BETWEEN RACE AND SES IS RELEVANT.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT EQUIPMENT VIOLATIONS, PEOPLE WHO ARE PULLED OVER FOR EQUIPMENT VIOLATIONS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE LOW SES AND THEREFORE MORE LIKELY TO BE PEOPLE OF COLOR.
DISPROPORTIONATELY PEOPLE OF COLOR ALSO LOW SES AREAS HAVE MORE STREET CRIME, PRODUCING MORE POLICE PRESENCE.
AND PEOPLE WHO LIVE AND DRIVE IN AREAS WITH MORE POLICE PRESENCE ARE MORE AT RISK OF BEING STOPPED THAN PEOPLE WHO LIVE AND DRIVE IN AREAS WITH VERY LOW POLICE PATROLS.
THERE ARE LEGITIMATE FACTORS THAT CAN PRODUCE RACIAL AND ETHNIC DISPARITIES.
NOW THE IDEAL ANALYSIS WOULD BE ABLE TO MEASURE DISPARITY WHILE CONTROLLING FOR ALL OF THOSE LEGITIMATE FACTORS.
THEN THAT REMAINING DISPARITY COULD BE ATTRIBUTED TO POLICE BIAS.
NOW, THERE'S NO METHOD THAT MEETS THE IDEAL.
AND A BIG PROBLEM IS THAT A NUMBER OF THE VARIABLES WE NEED TO MEASURE ARE DIFFICULT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO MEASURE.
FOR INSTANCE, WE NEED TO KNOW THE RACE OF THE PEOPLE WHO COMMIT CRIME, NOT THE RACE OF THE ONES ARRESTED, NOT THE RACE OF THE ONE STOP, THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY COMMIT CRIME.
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AND ETHNICITY OF PEOPLE WHO MANIFEST REASONABLE SUSPICION TO COMMIT CRIME.WE NEED TO KNOW THE RACIAL BREAKDOWN OF PEOPLE WHO VIOLATE TRAFFIC LAWS AND ON USE OF FORCE.
WE NEED TO KNOW THE BEHAVIORS OF THE PEOPLE WHO RECEIVED FORCE AND THE BEHAVIORS OF THE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T.
YOU HAVE INFORMATION ON THE BEHAVIORS OF PEOPLE WHO DID RECEIVE FORCE, ALL THE VIDEO CAMERAS GETTING REVIEWED, BUT INFORMATION ON THE ONES WHO DIDN'T RECEIVE FORCE.
MAYBE BLACKS RECEIVE FORCE WHEN THEY ENGAGE IN BEHAVIOR A, BUT WHITES DO NOT.
WHEN WHITES ENGAGE IN BEHAVIOR, A POLICE IMPLEMENT DEESCALATION TACTICS, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION.
SO THE KEY INFORMATION THAT WE NEED TO ACTUALLY CONTROL FOR THE LEGITIMATE FACTORS IS ON A SCALE FROM DIFFICULT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO PRODUCE.
NOW WE DON'T HAVE TO THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATH WATER, EVEN WHILE WE CAN'T REACH THE IDEAL.
THERE ARE ANALYSIS METHODS THAT ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS.
THEY RANGE ALONG A CONTINUUM OF QUALITY.
SO PPD AND THE PSAC MIGHT DECIDE, FOR INSTANCE, TO CONDUCT AN ANALYSIS OF THE TRAFFIC STOP DATA, WHICH I THINK IS GOING TO BE PRESENTED IN A VERY RAW FORM.
NOW IT TURNS OUT I WROTE A BOOK ON ANALYZING RACE DATA FROM VEHICLE STOPS.
IT'S CALLED BY THE NUMBERS AND IT'S AVAILABLE FREE ONLINE.
AND YOUR HANDOUT INDICATES WHERE YOU CAN FIND IT.
SO IF YOU HAVE INSOMNIA, IT'S A GOOD THING TO HAVE ON YOUR NIGHTSTAND
FORTUNATELY I ALSO WROTE THE CLIFF NOTES VERSION.
SO IT'S SAME CONTENT, BUT GREATLY REDUCED ALSO ONLINE.
NOW THESE DOCUMENTS ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY OLD, BUT THEY'RE ACTUALLY STILL VERY RELEVANT DESPITE THEIR AGE.
AND THESE DOCUMENTS HAVE CHAPTERS ON THE VARIOUS METHODS FOR ANALYZING VEHICLE STOCK DATA.
NOW IF YOU GO IN THIS DIRECTION, WHAT AGENCIES USUALLY DO IS PARTNER WITH A CONTRACTOR, INCLUDING THINK ABOUT ACADEMIC PARTNERS.
'CAUSE WE LOVE DATA AND WE HAVE A COMMUNITY SERVICE REQUIREMENT.
SO THINK ABOUT ACADEMICS THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL.
NOW, IF YOU GO THIS DIRECTION, UM, MOST OF THESE ANALYSIS INVOLVE DEVELOPING BENCHMARKS AS WE DISCUSSED.
NOW THINK ABOUT THE CONCEPTUAL IDEAL.
THE IDEAL BENCHMARK FOR VEHICLE STOPS WOULD TELL US THE RACIAL AND ETHNIC BREAKDOWN IS WHO IS AT RISK OF BEING STOPPED BY POLICE IN THEIR VEHICLES, TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION DIFFERENCES IN DRIVING QUANTITY, DRIVING QUALITY, AND DRIVING LOCATION.
ALRIGHT, THE IDEAL BENCHMARK DOES NOT EXIST, BUT LESS THAN IDEAL BENCHMARKS ARE CREATED.
AND GENERALLY YOU FIND THAT THESE BENCHMARKS ARE TRYING TO CREATE THE RACIAL PROFILE, THE RACIAL BREAKDOWN OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DRIVING OR PEOPLE WHO ARE DRIVING POORLY.
AND I WANNA GIVE YOU SOME EXAMPLES TO TRY TO MEASURE WHO IS DRIVING, WHO IS DRIVING ON THE STREETS OF PETALUMA.
SOME RESEARCHERS HAVE USED INSTEAD OF JUST THAT RAW CENSUS DATA WHERE EVERYBODY'S THROWN TOGETHER, SOMETIMES THEY'LL USE ADJUSTED CENSUS DATA SO THAT THEY'RE ONLY FOCUSING ON THE RESIDENTS OF PETALUMA WHO ARE OF DRIVING AGE AND HAVE ACCESS TO VEHICLES.
NOW, OF COURSE, IF YOU DID THIS BENCHMARK, A BENCHMARK BASED ON CENSUS DATA, YOU COULD ONLY USE THAT TO BENCHMARK THE STOPS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE PETALUMA RESIDENTS.
AND AGAIN, A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE STOPPED BY YOUR POLICE DEPARTMENT ARE NOT RESIDENTS OF PETALUMA.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER CHALLENGE IF YOU WANTED TO TRY DEVELOP A BENCHMARK TO TRY TO MEASURE WHO IS DRIVING POORLY.
SOME RESEARCH HAVE USED CRASH DATA.
THAT IS, THEY HAVE LOOKED AT THE RACIAL AND ETHNIC IDENTITY OF PEOPLE INVOLVED IN CRASHES IF SUCH DATA ARE AVAILABLE TO DEVELOP A PROXY MEASURE OF WHO'S DRIVING POORLY.
ANOTHER OBJECTIVE MEASURE OF WHO IS DRIVING POORLY ARE THE PHOTOS PRODUCED BY RED LIGHT CAMERAS.
SO SOME RESEARCHERS HAVE PRODUCED THE RACIAL ETHNIC PROFILE OF DRIVERS WHO RUN RED LIGHTS AS A PROXY MEASURE OF DRIVING QUALITY.
NOW, YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE FROM THESE EXAMPLES THAT THESE BENCHMARKING METHODS ARE IMPERFECT, BUT SOME ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS.
NOW WHAT ELSE COULD YOU DO IN PETALUMA BESIDES BENCHMARKING CITYWIDE DATA? KEEP IN MIND THAT EVEN IF YOU CANNOT MEASURE BIAS REALLY WELL,
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YOU COULD USE THE DATA TO IDENTIFY DISPARATE IMPACT, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE PRODUCED BY BIAS.AND THINK OF THAT AS AN ISSUE OF ITS OWN.
FOR INSTANCE, YOU COULD IDENTIFY THE CHARACTERISTICS OF STOPS WITH THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF DISPARITY AND LOOK DEEPER.
AND THEN AS A SECOND STEP DETERMINE WHETHER THOSE ACTIVITIES COULD BE REDUCED WITHOUT A SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCE.
LIKE FOR INSTANCE, MORE TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS.
IS IT EQUIPMENT STOPS MIGHT VERY WELL BE EQUIPMENT STOPS THAT PRODUCE HIGH LEVELS OF DISPARITY.
THIS IS TRUE IN MANY JURISDICTIONS.
AND SO SOME JURISDICTIONS FINDING THAT THIS IS THE CASE HAVE DIRECTED POLICE TO REDUCE EQUIPMENT STOPS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S PRODUCED BY BIAS.
SO MAYBE YOU CAN REDUCE EQUIPMENT STOPS, BUT THAT CAN HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
SO THE OTHER IDEA I LIKE SOME JURISDICTIONS HAVE ADOPTED PROGRAMS WHEREBY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STOPPED ARE GIVEN COUPONS TO LOCAL PARTICIPATING CAR SHOPS WHERE THEY CAN GET THE PROBLEM FIXED INSTEAD OF A TICKET FIX, THE BROKEN TAILLIGHT, THE BRAKE LIGHT, THE HEADLIGHT.
ALL RIGHT, WHAT ELSE COULD YOU DO WITH THE DATA? YOU COULD CONDUCT BENCHMARKING ANALYSIS, NOT JUST ON THE CITY AS A WHOLE, BUT WITHIN GEOGRAPHIC AREAS TO FIND OUT WHERE IS IT IN PETALUMA THAT WE HAVE MORE OR LESS DISPARITY.
IT'S NOT A PERFECT MEASURE, BUT IT COULD BE A STARTING POINT FOR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHY MIGHT THIS BE THE CASE AND WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT.
ANOTHER THING YOU COULD DO IS YOU COULD CONDUCT WHAT I CALL SEARCH HIT RATE ANALYSIS.
SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE DATA FROM THE RIPA THAT IS SEARCHES AND WHAT KIND OF SEARCHES WERE CONDUCTED AND WHETHER THERE WAS A HIT.
AND BY HIT I MEAN THE SEARCH PRODUCED SEASONABLE EVIDENCE, THE OFFICER CONDUCTED THE SEARCH AND FOUND BURGLARY TOOLS OR DRUGS OR AN ILLEGAL FIREARM.
AND WHILE I'VE SHARED THAT THERE'S NO FOOLPROOF WAY TO MEASURE BIAS, IT TURNS OUT THAT SEARCH HIT RATES ARE ONE OF THE BETTER INDICATORS.
THE BOTTOM LINE, LOWER HIT RATES FOR MINORITIES IS A RED FLAG FOR BIAS IN SEARCHES.
SO THERE ARE WAYS TO ANALYZE THE DATA, AND EVEN IF YOU PRODUCE IMPERFECT DATA, IT CAN LEAD TO CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSIONS.
AS LONG AS YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THESE DATA CAN AND CANNOT TELL US, IT CAN EVEN LEAD TO REFORM EFFORTS.
AND CHAPTER 13 OF BY THE NUMBERS IS USING THE RESULTS FOR REFORM.
BUT THERE'S A SECOND REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME THEME IN MY PRESENTATION.
AND IT'S THIS, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE DATA.
I DID NOT WRITE THOSE TWO BOOKS BECAUSE I WAS A HUGE FAN OF ANALYZING VEHICLE STOP DATA.
ON THE CONTRARY, I SAW SIMPLE ANALYSIS BEING CONDUCTED AND INAPPROPRIATE CONCLUSIONS DRAWN ABOUT AGENCIES.
I SAW STAKEHOLDERS, WHETHER THOSE ARE POLICE CHIEFS OR COMMUNITY MEMBERS, ALL CAUGHT UP IN DATA ANALYSIS AND NOT TALKING ABOUT ACTUAL MEASURES TO PRODUCE IMPARTIAL POLICING.
INDEED, I WORRY THAT DATA COLLECTION IS SOMETIMES SEEN AS A WAY OF DETERMINING WHICH AGENCIES HAVE WORK TO DO TO ADDRESS BIAS AND WHICH DO NOT.
I HAVE A NATIONAL TRAINING PROGRAM ON IMPLICIT BIAS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT.
AND I KNOW FROM THAT SCIENCE THAT EVEN WELL-INTENTIONED PEOPLE WITH THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS IN THE RIGHT PLACE HAVE BIASES THAT CAN IMPACT PERCEPTIONS AND BEHAVIOR.
SO AS LONG AS POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE HIRING HUMANS TO DO THE WORK, WE WILL HAVE BIASED DECISIONS IN POLICE AS SUCH.
EACH AGENCY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR DATA SHOWS, HAS TO BE PROACTIVE IN PRODUCING IMPARTIAL POLICING.
ANOTHER OF MY BOOKS AND OUR COMMAND LEVEL TRAINING THAT WE CONDUCT FOCUS ON WHAT I CALL A COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY TO PRODUCE IMPARTIAL POLICING AGENCIES HAVE WORK TO DO, AGAIN, REGARDLESS OF THEIR DATA WITHIN THESE REALMS. RECRUITMENT AND HIRING BIAS, FREE POLICING, POLICY TRAINING, LEADERSHIP AND SUPERVISION, ACCOUNTABILITY, MEASUREMENT, OPERATIONS AND OUTREACH.
JUST TO GIVE SOME EXAMPLES, AGENCIES NEED TO
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SCREEN FOR CONSCIOUS BIASES AT HIRING, HAVE AN EFFECTIVE MEANINGFUL BIAS-FREE POLICING POLICY THAT IS COMMUNICATED CLEARLY TO PERSONNEL, TRAIN IMPLICIT BIAS AT ALL LEVELS, AND THEN PROVIDE CONTINUING MESSAGING OF THE IMPORTANCE OF IMPARTIAL POLICING BETWEEN TRAINING SESSIONS, SPECIFICALLY TRAIN SUPERVISORS TO SUPERVISE, TO PROMOTE IMPARTIAL POLICING.AND AS ANOTHER EXAMPLE, AN IMPORTANT ONE, ADOPT SAFEGUARDS TO REDUCE THE RISK OF BIAS POLICING IN OPERATIONAL ACTIVITIES.
NOW IN THE STAFF REPORT THAT YOU RECEIVED, THE PPD LEADERSHIP OUTLINED SOME OF THEIR AREAS, SOME OF 'EM THAT I JUST MENTIONED TO PROMOTE IMPARTIAL POLICING.
SO TO WRAP IT UP MY TWO KEY MESSAGES, IT'S EASY TO MEASURE DISPARITY, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO PARSE OUT THE CAUSES, BUT AGAIN, THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATH WATER, BUT THE INTERPRETATION OF ANY RESULTS HAVE TO REFLECT AN UNDERSTANDING ABOUT WHAT THE DATA CAN AND CANNOT TELL US.
BUT POINT NUMBER TWO, DON'T MAKE YOUR ALL YOUR DISCUSSIONS AND ALL YOUR EFFORTS ALL ABOUT THE DATA, PROMOTE AND SUPPORT EFFORTS TO PRODUCE IMPARTIAL POLICING WITH THE PETALUMA POLICE DEPARTMENT.
AND I THINK THEY HAVE SCHEDULED TIME FOR QUESTION, ANSWER, DISCUSSION.
AND SO MR. CHAIR, CAN I ASK A COUPLE QUESTIONS IF POSSIBLE? YEAH, THAT'D BE GREAT.
SO I, I'D BE CURIOUS ON SOME OF THE USE OF FORCE DATA ABOUT, UM, WHETHER OR WHAT THE NUMBERS ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE FOR THE PETALUMA RESIDENTS AS OPPOSED TO PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE OF TOWN.
UM, AND WHETHER OR NOT COMMUNITY OR ORIENTED POLICING EFFORTS HELP TO REDUCE THAT, THAT DISPARITY WHEN YOU HAVE FOLKS, UM, THAT A POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT WORKS CLOSELY WITH THE COMMUNITY AND KNOWS THE COMMUNITY, UM, IS, DOES THAT HELP TO REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD OF, OF USE OF FORCE? AND WHEN WE LOOK AT FOLKS THAT ARE COMING FROM OUTSIDE THE COMMUNITY, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, UM, IF WE LOOK AT JUST THE, THE ONE ISSUE THAT'S BEEN KIND OF PROBLEMATIC FOR THE PAST COUPLE YEARS, THE, THE COMMERCIAL, UM, THEFT RINGS, RIGHT? AND A LOT OF THE CALL THOSE CALLS FOR SERVICE END UP IN USE OF FORCE BECAUSE THERE'S EITHER PURSUITS OR THE FOLKS FLEE AND LEADS TO USE OF FORCE.
UH, BUT 99.9% OF THOSE FOLKS AREN'T FROM PETALUMA, THEY'RE FROM THE BAY AREA IN GENERAL.
AND SO DOES OUR USE OF FORCE OR DOES THE NUMBERS OF USE OF FORCE MATCH WHAT THE BAY AREAS, UM, ETHNIC, ETHNIC MAKEUP LOOK LIKE BETTER? BECAUSE MOST OF THE FOLKS THAT ARE COMING HERE AND COM COMMITTING THOSE, UM, COMMERCIAL THEFT, UM, CRIMES AREN'T COMING FROM SONOMA COUNTY, MARIN COUNTY.
THEY'RE COMING FROM SOLANO SF UH, ALAMEDA COUNTY.
UM, AND SO I'D BE CURIOUS WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
ADDITIONALLY, DOES IT FACTOR IN, UM, WHEN WE LOOK AT A USE OF FORCE AND REPEAT OFFENDERS, RIGHT? SO, UH, WHEN WE HAVE SAY, UNHOUSED MENTALLY ILL INDIVIDUALS WHO THE POLICE INTERACT WITH FREQUENTLY, BUT THEY TEND TO HAVE TO USE FORCE BECAUSE THAT PERSON HAS A MENTAL ILLNESS OR UM, HAS, YOU KNOW, TENDS TO BE COMBATIVE.
DOES THAT, DO WE FACTOR THOSE IN TOO? AS AS AS, UM, LIKE IF IT'S ONE PERSON THAT THEY'VE INTERACTED WITH FIVE TIMES AND WE'VE ONLY HAD 50 USES OF FORCE IN A YEAR, THAT ONE PERSON IS MAKING UP THE MAJORITY AND THAT MIGHT THROW OFF SOME OF THE DATA.
UM, AND SO I'D, I'D JUST BE CURIOUS, DOCTOR, WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ON THAT.
AND CAN THE HOST GIVE MY, TURN MY VIDEO ON? I GOT ALL DRESSED UP FOR YOU GUYS.
WITH WHOM AM I SPEAKING? UH, MY NAME IS GABE.
AND GABE, THAT WAS AN AWFUL LOT OF QUESTIONS, SO I'M GONNA DO MY BEST TO SEE HOW MUCH I I GOT FROM THAT.
FIRST OF ALL, I LOVED YOUR QUESTION ABOUT COMMUNITY POLICING AND HOW THAT COULD, YOU KNOW, COULD THAT IMPACT LEVELS OF FORCE IN A COMMUNITY? AND I WOULD SAY YES,
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YOU'RE ABLE TO TALK NOW.CAN YOU, YOU CAN'T GIVE, YOU CAN'T PUT MY VIDEO UP THERE.
UH, NO, I WILL KEEP TRYING ON THIS END AND UM, OKAY.
SO I DON'T THINK YOU HEARD ANYTHING I SAID.
SO COMMUNITY POLICING, UM, CAN DEVELOP TRUST AND CONFIDENCE.
'CAUSE YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I MENTIONED IS THAT THERE, UM, IS SOME RESEARCH INDICATING THAT THERE'S RACIAL DIFFERENCES IN RESISTANCE TO POLICE.
AND I MENTIONED THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE VERY TOUGH RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PEOPLE OF COLOR AND POLICE HISTORICALLY IN THIS COUNTRY PUT IN FACT EXACERBATE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE PEOPLE THAT ARE DISINCLINED TO DEFER TO THE POLICE AND THEIR AUTHORITY.
SO DEVELOPING THAT TRUST AND CONFIDENCE COULD ABSOLUTELY, UM, HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE USE OF FORCE.
NOW YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT COMMERCIALS, SOMETHING RINGS AND I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
IS THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S SPECIFIC TO PETALUMA THAT I SHOULD KNOW ABOUT? IN CALIFORNIA, WE HAVE, UM, A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE WITH COMMERCIAL, UM, SHOPLIFTING RINGS.
AND THEN YOU WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT PURSUITS USE OF FORCE.
WERE YOU LINKING THAT QUESTION TO THE RESIDENT NON-RESIDENT, UM, ISSUE OF EVALUATING FOR YES MA'AM.
AND THAT IS WHY I REALLY DO NOT LIKE CENSUS DATA.
UM, AS A BENCHMARK, EVEN THE ADJUSTED CENSUS BENCHMARKING IS AT THE LOW END OF THE QUALITY CONTINUUM, BUT IT'S VERY HARD TO BENCHMARK USE OF FORCE DATA.
UM, AND SOMETHING THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE BETTER THAN CENSUS IS, I MEAN, AGAIN, ALL OF THESE ARE FAULTY, BUT IT'S LOOKING AT WHO ACTUALLY IS, UM, INVOLVED IN CRIME IN THE AREA IS THE BETTER BENCHMARK WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT USE OF FORCE.
NOW THE PROBLEM WITH THAT, AS I MENTIONED, IS WE DON'T HAVE GOOD MEASURES OF WHO IS ACTUALLY COMMITTING CRIME.
WE KNOW WHO'S ARRESTED, WE KNOW WHO STOPPED, BUT THAT COULD BE IN INEXPLICABLY, YOU KNOW, IN INTERACTING WITH BIAS IN THE SYSTEM.
SO THAT MAKES IT A PROBLEMATIC BENCHMARK TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, BLACKS ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY ARRESTED IS NOT A MEASURE OF WHO COMMITS CRIME.
IT IS SOME COMBINATION OF WHO COMMITS CRIME AND WHOM POLICE ARREST FOR CRIME.
SO I WOULD NOT ADVOCATE CENSUS DATA COMING ANYWHERE CLOSE TO BENCHMARKING USE OF FORCE DATA.
OH, YOU MENTIONED THE REPEAT OFFENDERS.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT REPEAT OFFENDERS COULD IMPACT THE, THE DATA.
IF YOU HAVE ONE PERSON, YOU KNOW, GEORGE, WHO IS UM, REPRESENTED FIVE TIMES IN YOUR DATA AND GEORGE IS HISPANIC, THAT IS GOING TO DEFINITELY INCREASE THE PROPORTION OF YOUR USE OF FORCE THAT IS HISPANIC, WHEN IN FACT IT'S A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.
WERE THERE OTHER PARTS OF WHAT YOU SAID, GABE, FOLLOW UP IF I MISSED SOMETHING.
UH, SOMETHING ON THE, UH, SECOND, UH, HANDOUT, UM, WHEN TALKING ABOUT DRAWING CONCLUSIONS ABOUT BIAS FROM THOSE FIGURES AND IT SAYS THAT EVERYONE IN THE CITY IS AT EQUAL RISK OF HAVING FORCE USED AGAINST THEM AND THAT THAT IS FALSE.
WHY IS THAT FALSE? I WOULD THINK THAT EVERYONE IN THIS CITY SHOULD HAVE AN EQUAL RISK OF HAVING FORCE USED AGAINST THEM.
WHY WOULD YOU, WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT THAT STATEMENT IS FALSE AND THAT SOME RACE AND ETHNICITIES SHOULD EXPECT TO HAVE A HIGHER RISK OF HAVING FORCE USED AGAINST THEM? SO WHEN I'M MAKING THAT STATEMENT, I'M, I'M CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE FORCE USE AGAINST THEM ARE MORE LIKELY TO EXHIBIT BEHAVIORS.
AND WHAT THE CENSUS DATA IMPLIES IS THAT EVERYBODY IN THE CITY IS AT EQUAL RISK OF HAVING FORCE USED AGAINST THEM REGARDLESS OF THEIR CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR, REGARDLESS OF RESISTING BEHAVIOR.
SO THAT'S KIND OF THE SUBSUMED UNDER THAT STATEMENT.
SO NO, EVERYBODY IS NOT AT EQUAL RISK.
YOU ARE MORE AT RISK IF YOU ENGAGE IN CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, YOU ARE MORE AT RISK, UM, IF YOU RESIST.
DOES THAT MAKE MORE SENSE WHEN I ADD THAT INFORMATION? IT DOES.
BUT HOW DOES THE DATA CORRELATE TO A, A HIGHER PERCEPTION OF RISK OR DANGER FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY GIVEN THE PUBLIC INSTANCES NATIONWIDE OF POLICE MISCONDUCT, UH, CONDUCTED AGAINST THAT COMP, THAT POPULATION FIRST, FIRST OF, WHO AM I SPEAKING WITH? UH, SORRY.
THIS IS MIKE, MICHAEL MILLER, MIKE, WILL YOU, WILL YOU SAY THAT AGAIN? UH, HOW DOES THE DATA CORRELATE TO A HIGHER PERCEPTION OF RISK AND DANGER FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY GIVEN THE NUMEROUS PUBLIC INSTANCES NATIONWIDE OF POLICE MISCONDUCT COMMITTED AGAINST THE POPULATION? IN OTHER WORDS, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU HAVE A POPULATION THAT IS
[00:35:01]
MORE FEARFUL AND AFRAID OF POLICE AND THEREFORE WOULD EXHIBIT BEHAVIORS IN FRONT OF POLICE THAT WOULD CORRELATE TO THEM HAVING A HIGHER RISK OF USE OF FORCE USED AGAINST THEM? OKAY.AND, AND, AND I HOPE, I, I HOPE I CAUGHT THAT.
ONE OF THE THINGS YOU MADE ME THINK OF, AND I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS EXACTLY YOUR INTENTION, BUT A HIGHER PERCEPTION OF DANGER.
'CAUSE THAT GOES BACK TO THE IMPLICIT BIASES IN MY MIND, BECAUSE MANY OF US HAVE IMPLICIT BIASES THAT ASSOCIATE PEOPLE OF COLOR WITH CRIME, VIOLENCE, AND AGGRESSION, SUCH THAT THE SAME BEHAVIOR ON THE PART OF A WHITE PERSON AND A BLACK PERSON MIGHT BE PERCEIVED AS MORE DANGEROUS, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, UM, BECAUSE OF IMPLICIT BIASES.
AND SO CERTAINLY PART OF WHAT YOU SAID IS WE DRAW POLICE FROM THE HUMAN RACE AND THEY ALSO HAVE IMPLICIT BIASES.
AND SO THAT COULD ACTUALLY INCREASE THE POSSIBILITY OF FORCE USED AGAINST A PERSON OF COLOR, EVEN IF IT WOULDN'T BE USED AGAINST A WHITE PERSON IN THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES.
AND THEN, AS YOU POINT OUT, I THINK THE OTHER ASPECT OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT THERE ARE MANY IN OUR COMMUNITIES, DISPROPORTIONATELY PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO HAVE A, HAVE HAD VERY BAD HISTORY WITH POLICE.
UM, THEY'RE MORE FEARFUL OF POLICE THAT MIGHT PRODUCE MORE RESISTANCE ON THEIR PART BECAUSE THEY DON'T TRUST THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, CARED FOR AND SAFELY TAKEN INTO CUSTODY OR WHEREVER.
IS THAT WHERE YOU WERE GOING WITH THAT LAST ONE, MIKE? YES.
IT WAS THAT THAT SORT OF, KIND OF CREATES A CIRCULAR SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE A GROUP THAT IS FEARFUL OF THE OUTCOME AND THEREFORE BEHAVES IN A WAY THAT GIVES MORE LEGITIMACY OR GIVES A, GIVES A JUSTIFICATION TO THE POLICE TO, UM, ENGAGE IN MORE TRAFFIC STOPS OR PEDESTRIAN STOPS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK OF THAT SOMETIMES AS A SPIRAL.
YOU KNOW, YOU BRING SOME PEOPLE FROM THE POPULATION WHO HAVE A TERRIBLE RELATIONSHIP WITH POLICE THAT ARE FRIGHTENED OF THEM.
THEY COME INTO A SITUATION, UM, NOT READY TO DEFER TO THE POLICE.
THE POLICE COME IN MAYBE WITH, YOU KNOW, WANTING ALL THAT DEFERENCE.
AND I SEE A SPIRAL DOWNWARD IN THOSE SITUATIONS.
SO I THINK WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS VERY REAL.
IS THERE A WAY THAT THAT CAN BE SORT OF ADDRESSED AS, IS THAT SORT OF THE, THE CONCLUSION ABOUT SORT OF IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING? OR WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU CALL THAT BIAS THAT SORT OF, THE THINGS THAT LEAD INTO THAT SPIRAL EFFECT? I THINK IT'S BIAS ON BOTH PARTS.
'CAUSE I THINK THAT PEOPLE C COMMUNITY MEMBERS SOMETIMES ARE COMING TO THE POLICE WITH BIASES.
YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY HAVE PERCEPTIONS OF POLICE THAT COME FROM NATIONAL DATA AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PETALUMA POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT THEY ASSUME THEY STEREOTYPE THE PETALUMA POLICE DEPARTMENT AS BEING LIKE POLICE ELSEWHERE.
SO I THINK THEY COULD BRING, BRING BIASES INTO A SITUATION.
THEY COULD BRING BIASES INTO THE SITUATION.
SO I, I DO THINK THAT IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING IS A PART OF THIS.
NOW, I WILL SAY THIS ABOUT IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING.
WE DON'T TAKE BULLIES AND TURN THEM INTO NON BULLIES.
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T TAKE RACIST AND TURN 'EM INTO NON-RACIST, IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING IS MOST EFFECTIVE FOR POLICE OFFICERS WHO HAVE THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS IN THE RIGHT PLACE, WHICH I THINK IS THE STRONG MAJORITY OF POLICE IN THIS COUNTRY.
AND THEN, YES, IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING COULD BE VERY RELEVANT, COULD HAVE OFFICERS THINKING ABOUT, AM I PERCEIVING THIS PERSON AS MORE OF A THREAT JUST BECAUSE IT IS A PERSON OF COLOR? WE WANT OFFICERS ASKING THAT QUESTION AND MANAGING THEIR BIASES IN THOSE SITUATIONS.
I'M ABSOLUTELY IN AGREEMENT WITH, WITH YOU MIKE.
UH, SORRY, ONE, ONE MORE QUESTION.
UM, YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE MORE DISPROPORTIONATELY REPRESENTED IN LOWER SOCIOECONOMIC NEIGHBORHOODS AND THAT MAY ACCOUNT FOR, YOU HAVE HIGHER POLICE PRESENCE IN THOSE SO LOWER SOCIOECONOMIC NEIGHBORHOODS, WHICH COULD ACCOUNT FOR A MORE INSTANCES OF POLICE INTERACTION WITH PEOPLE OF COLOR.
UH, SOME OF THE NATIONAL FIGURES THAT, THAT I'VE SEEN, AND I APOLOGIZE, I DON'T HAVE THEM WITH HAIR, IS THAT WHEN YOU TAKE, WHEN YOU SORT OF ACCOUNT FOR THAT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHITE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE IN LOWER SOCIAL ECONOMIC NEIGHBORHOODS AND SORT OF EQUALIZE THAT OUT, THAT THE NUMBERS STILL BEAR OUT, THAT THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND HISPANIC COMMUNITY TEND TO HAVE MORE POLICE INTERACTIONS EVEN THAN WHITE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY IN THOSE LOWER SOCIAL ECONOMIC NEIGHBORHOODS.
UH, DOES THAT CORRELATE IN THE DATA THAT YOU'VE SEEN AS WELL? YES, YES.
I'VE SEEN STUDIES THAT HAVE SHOWN THAT EVEN AFTER YOU CONTROL FOR THE SES AND THE CRIME IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT BLACKS RECEIVE MORE INTERVENTION THAN WHITES.
THESE ARE SOME OF THE STUDIES THAT INDICATE THAT THERE IS POLICE BIAS, UM, IN THIS COUNTRY.
UM, HI, THIS IS ELLEN SPEAKING.
SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT RED LIGHT CAMERA DATA ARE ALL, UM, ALL STOPLIGHTS RECORDING AT ALL TIMES.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY RED LIGHT CAMERAS IN THIS TOWN.
[00:40:01]
OKAY.SO THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT EVEN APPLIC APPLICABLE.
YEAH, I NEVER HEARD OF THAT, SO I WAS A LITTLE BIT SURPRISED.
AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION, UM, CALIFORNIA HAS A NEW LAW THAT WENT INTO EFFECT ON JANUARY, UM, THAT REQUIRES LAW ENFORCEMENT TO STATE THE REASON FOR A TRAFFIC OR A PEDESTRIAN STOP BEFORE ASKING ANY QUESTIONS.
I'M WONDERING IF, UM, IN THE TRACKING OF WHAT WE'RE DOING UNDER RIPPA, IF, UH, IF THE QUESTION OF WHY THEY'RE BEING STOPPED, WHAT WHATEVER THE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS SAYING TO THE, TO THE PERSON WHO'S BEING STOPPED IS ALSO BEING RECORDED WITH THE RACE.
BECAUSE THAT SEEMS TO BE, THAT WOULD BE, UH, KIND OF, UM, MORE TELLING OF WHY YOU'RE PULLING SOMEONE OVER AND THEIR RACE TO FIND MORE DATA.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? UM, I'M GONNA NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE.
SO WE HAVE THAT, THEY HAVE TO STATE THE REASON FOR THE STOP WHEN THEY MAKE THE STOP.
AND THEN YOU'RE SAYING WE HAVE CORRESPONDING DATA ON THE FORM THAT SAYS WHAT IS THE REASON OF THE STOP AND WE HAVE THE RACE ETHNICITY DATA.
WERE YOU ARGUING ONE WAS A SUPERIOR SOURCE OF DATA THAN THE OTHER THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THE CORRESPONDENCE? UH, IT'S A BRAND NEW THING THAT, THAT REQUIRES POLICE TO STATE THE REASON APPARENTLY STATING THE REASON FOR A TRAFFIC STOP OR A PEDESTRIAN STOP RIGHT AWAY, UH, MAKES THE PERSON WHO YOU'RE STOPPING OR THE, YOU KNOW, WHOEVER YEAH.
THE PERSON WHO YOU WERE STOPPING, UH, KNOW WHAT WHAT'S UP, BASICALLY.
AND, UM, SO I'M, I'M WONDERING IF, AND, AND IF ONCE WE'RE COLLECTING THIS DATA, IF WE START SEEING, WELL, IF THE PERSON, IF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BLACK, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALWAYS BEING, WELL, IF THEY'RE DISPROPORTIONATELY BEING PULLED OVER FOR SOMETHING SMALLER OR, YOU KNOW, THI THINGS LIKE MM-HMM.
AND THAT GOES BACK TO WHEN I TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE PROSPECTS FOR LOOKING AT THE VEHICLE STOP DATA.
IT'S LOOKING AT THE TYPES OF STOPS WHERE WE SEE A LARGE AMOUNTS OF DISPARITY.
AND AGAIN, REGARDLESS OF BIAS, DISPARATE IMPACT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT IS OF CONCERN.
SO I LIKE THE WAY YOU'RE THINKING IT MIGHT BE THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY REPRESENTED AMONGST EQUIPMENT STOPS.
WE FIND THAT FREQUENTLY OR MAYBE SOME OTHER TYPES OF LOW LEVEL INTERVENTIONS BECAUSE FOR, FOR, FOR PE SKEPTICS OF POLICE, THAT BRINGS TO MIND, YOU KNOW, ARE THEY LOOKING FOR JUST SMALL LITTLE THINGS TO HAVE THE CHANCE TO PULL THE CAR OVER, LOOK IN THE BACK SEAT, AND SO FORTH.
SO, UM, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING YOU COULD DO WITH THE VEHICLE STOP DATA.
AND BY THE WAY, I HOPE YOU WERE OKAY THROUGH THE HURRICANES.
UM, I SAID A QUESTION, UM, ONE, UM, IN TERMS OF, UH, DUI CHECKPOINTS, OKAY.
I KNOW THAT'S NOT QUITE WHERE WE'RE AT, BUT, UH, IT SEEMS LIKE, UH, YOU'RE GOING TO, UH, EXPECT TO FIND LESS BIAS IN THAT KIND OF SITUATION, UM, IN GENERAL.
UH, BUT I'M WONDERING IF YOU HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH RESEARCH OR ANY COMMENTS TO MAKE ABOUT WHAT KIND OF BIAS YOU MIGHT STILL SEE IN THAT SITUATION? OKAY, SO YEAH, THE SUPREME COURT SAYS THAT IF YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT, YOU'RE GONNA DO RANDOM.
SO IT'S GOTTA HAVE, THEY GOTTA HAVE SOME KIND OF RANDOM SYSTEM SO THAT IT'S EVERY FIFTH CAR, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO WHO GETS PULLED OVER, WE WOULD ASSUME IS IDEALLY BIAS FREE.
YOU KNOW, A PROBLEM THEY HAD IN CHICAGO WERE ALLEGATIONS ON THE PART OF THE COMMUNITY AS TO THE LOCATION OF THE DUI CHECKPOINT.
SO THAT IS A POSSIBILITY OF, UM, BIAS PLACEMENT OF THESE CHECKPOINTS.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU, DENNIS? ABSOLUTELY.
THAT'S THE FIRST ONE I WOULD'VE GUESSED IF YOU SAID, ASKED ME TO.
UH, YEAH, I JUST WONDERED ABOUT THAT.
I, I GUESS, UM, NO, THAT'S, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
DENNIS, I DID HAVE ONE MORE FOLLOW UP IF YOU DON'T MIND.
UH, YOU TALKED ABOUT, UH, OTHER JURISDICTIONS, OTHER CITIES AND MUNICIPALITIES THAT HAVE SORT OF MOVED EQUIPMENT STOPS AND OTHER SORT OF NON-MOVING VIOLATIONS, UM, AND TURN THOSE INTO SORT OF NON-TRAFFIC STOP INFRACTIONS.
UM, IS THERE ANY SORT OF DATA THAT SORT OF SPEAKS TO, DOES THAT REDUCE SORT OF THE AMOUNT OF BIAS IN TERMS OF, UM, RACIAL AND ETHNIC DISPARITY? LIKE, CAN WE SAY THAT THAT WORKS AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE PURSUING
[00:45:01]
TO YOUR POINT, IN ORDER TO SORT OF LOOK PAST THE BIAS AND JUST FOCUS ON THE DATA AND HOW DO WE IMPROVE POLICING? OKAY.SO LET ME SEE IF I, IF I CAUGHT THAT, MIKE.
UM, SO AGAIN, I TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE SOMETIMES WHEN, UM, AGENCIES FIND THAT THERE'S A LARGE AMOUNT OF DISPARITY IN SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY, YOU STOP AND YOU DO A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS, THINKING ABOUT DISPARATE IMPACT AS A PROBLEM IN AND OF ITSELF.
IS THERE A WAY FOR US TO EITHER REDUCE THE INCIDENTS OF THOSE TYPES OF ENCOUNTERS OR REDUCE THE NEGATIVE OUTCOMES? UM, AND ALSO A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THAT CONVERSATION.
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT? BECAUSE I MEAN, YOU COULD SAY, ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GONNA STOP DOING EQUIPMENT VIOLATIONS AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF ACCIDENTS 'CAUSE BRAKES AREN'T WORKING AND THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER.
SO THERE'S ALWAYS A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF THIS.
UM, CAN I TELL YOU ASKED ME, DO WE KNOW THAT THAT REDUCES BIAS, THOSE EFFORTS ARE TRYING TO REDUCE DISPARITY, NOT TRYING TO REDUCE BIAS.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THAT DOES MAKE SENSE.
DO DO, IS THERE ANY DATA THAT CORRELATES TO IF THEY'RE ABLE, IF THEY HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN REDUCING DISPARITY? YES.
NOW IF YOU ASK ME TO NAME THE STUDY, I'M GONNA HAVE TROUBLE, BUT THAT'S OKAY.
BUT I HAVE SEEN ANECDOTALLY, I I TRUST YOU THAT YOU, IF YOU SAID YES, YOU BELIEVE THAT, THAT THAT IS TRUE IN THE DATA.
I ACTUALLY, I I KNOW THAT, UM, 'CAUSE I'M LOOKING INTO, UM, BANNING PRETEXTUAL STOPS IN A DIFFERENT CONTEXT.
I KNOW LA THE CITY OF LA DID THAT.
AND, UM, IT, THERE'S DEFINITELY SHOWED THAT REDUCING DISPARITIES.
SO, UM, CHIEF, DO WE STILL HAVE THE PROGRAM WHERE WE GIVE AWAY HEADLIGHTS AND TAILLIGHTS FOR VEHICLES WHERE WE STOP FOR THOSE INFRACTIONS? YEAH.
WE'VE BEEN PARTNERED, WE WERE THE FIRST COUNTY OR FIRST CITY IN THIS COUNTY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE LIGHTS ON PROGRAM.
IT'S A NATIONAL PROGRAM BASED OUT OF, UH, MINNEAPOLIS.
UH, IT'S A VOUCHER PROGRAM FOR MINOR, UH, EQUIPMENT VIOLATIONS, GENERALLY LIGHTING EQUIPMENT VIOLATIONS.
SO OUR OFFICERS, IF THEY ENCOUNTER SOMEONE THAT HAS THAT TYPE OF EQUIPMENT VIOLATION, OUR ULTIMATE FOCUS IS ABOUT GETTING THEM TO GET THEIR VEHICLE REPAIRED SO IT'S IN THE SAFE DRIVING CONDITION.
SO THEY CAN'T PERPETUATE THAT UNSAFE CONDITION.
AND THIS, UH, IS BRIDGING THE MEANS FOR THEM TO DO THAT.
AND SO WE'VE BEEN, UH, I THINK WE'VE OPERATED THAT PROGRAM FOR ABOUT A YEAR, MAYBE 13 MONTHS OR SO.
AND SO WE'VE SEEN A NUMBER OF, OF LOCAL SERVICE PROVIDERS PARTNER WITH THE PROGRAM SO THEY CAN OFFER THE REPAIRS HERE LOCALLY.
AND THEN, UH, COMMUNITY MEMBERS, WHETHER THEY'RE FROM THIS COMMUNITY OR FROM ANOTHER COMMUNITY, CAN LOG INTO THE WEBSITE AND FIND THE NEAREST SERVICE PROVIDER THAT OFFERS THEM UP TO, I, I THINK IT'S LIKE 125, $140 TOWARDS THE, THE REPAIR.
AND I, I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD GO TO THE BUILDING THE TRUST WITH THE FOLKS THAT YOU'RE ENCOUNTERING.
AND I THINK THE OTHER, UM, I WANTED TO, TO, SINCE I'M SPEAKING TO THIS MATTER, MAYBE TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO, TO MEMBER, UM, OB SETTLER'S COMMENT ABOUT THE, THE REVISED LEGISLATIVE CHANGE ON TRAFFIC STOPS FOR IDENTIFYING YOURSELF, PROVIDING THE REASON FOR THE, THE TRAFFIC STOP.
SO THAT'S BEEN GENERALLY OUR PRACTICE.
WE FIND AND AGREE THAT WHEN YOU ADVISE THE MOTORISTS WHY YOU'VE STOPPED THEM, RATHER THAN ASKING THEM, DO YOU KNOW WHY I STOPPED YOU? UM, SO WE, WE GENERALLY, UH, ENCOURAGE AND TRAIN OUR STAFF TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES.
YOU KNOW, MY NAME'S BRIAN, I'M A POLICE OFFICER OF THE PETALUMA POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THE REASON I STOPPED YOU WAS FOR SPEEDING TODAY.
IS THERE ANY REASON WHY WE WERE SPEEDING? WE FIND THAT TO BE A MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE PROCESS.
AND THEN CONVERSELY, IN OUR RIPPA REPORTING, OUR STOP REPORTING, UH, THERE IS, UM, ALL THE QUESTIONS IN ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT THEY HAVE TO, UH, COMPLETE IS, WAS WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR THAT STOP AND THAT INTERACTION.
SO WE'RE CAPTURING IT AND WE'RE ALSO SHARING THAT IN THE INITIAL INTERACTION TO THE MOTORIST.
UH, ONE MORE FOLLOW UP QUESTION.
UM, SORT OF AN AN EXTENSION TO THE QUESTION ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, EQUIPMENT VIOLATIONS.
SOMETHING, UM, I HEAR ABOUT A LOT IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY IS SORT OF A SPIRAL OR A CYCLE IN TERMS OF FAIL TO PAY FAILURE TO APPEAR.
UM, YOU, YOU HEAR A LOT ABOUT THIS SORT OF VICIOUS CYCLE OF, YOU KNOW, THE DMV REGISTRATION IS REALLY EXPENSIVE IN CALIFORNIA, AND FOR SOME PEOPLE THAT'S HARD TO PAY FOR, BUT THEY NEED TO USE THEIR CAR IN ORDER TO GET TO WORK.
SO THEY'RE TRYING TO USE THEIR CAR TO GET TO WORK SO THEY CAN PAY FOR THE REGISTRATION SO THEY CAN HAVE THE RIGHT TAGS, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TAGS.
AND SO THEY GET THAT FAILURE TO PAY, AND NOW YOU'VE CREATED ANOTHER FINANCIAL BURDEN THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO GET TO.
AND IF THEY CAN'T PAY THAT FAILURE TO PAY, IN ADDITION TO THE CAR REGISTRATION, NOW THEY HAVE A
[00:50:01]
FAILURE TO PEER WARRANT AND NOW THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO BE STOPPED OR HAVE AN INTERACTION WITH THE POLICE DUE TO THAT WARRANT.LIKE, WHAT ARE THE WAYS THAT WE CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE SYSTEMIC ISSUES AROUND, UM, SOCIOECONOMIC FACTORS THAT I THINK AS FAR AS THE, THE BLACK COMMUNITY, I THINK IS ACTUALLY MORE OF AN ISSUE THAN EQUIPMENT VIOLATIONS.
AND I KIND OF OPEN THAT UP TO ANYONE.
YEAH, I I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY MORE A, A QUESTION FOR, FOR OUR PD STAFF, UM, RATHER THAN, THAN LORI IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE.
BUT GENERALLY OUR APPROACH IN THESE IS, UH, YOU KNOW, ANY EQUIPMENT VIOLATION REGISTRATION, UH, THOSE ARE, UH, CORRECTABLE.
UM, SO WE ENCOURAGE OUR STAFF IN THOSE APPROPRIATE SETTINGS WHERE THERE AREN'T OTHER CONSIDERATIONS OR OTHER ISSUES TO ISSUE EITHER A VERBAL WARNING OR A CORRECTABLE, UM, NOTICE.
AND SO THERE'S NORMALLY A PROCESSING FEE.
SO ONLY IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, UH, I WOULD SAY THAT WE DID ASK THE QUESTION OF SHERMAN SHERMAN WAS THE REPRESENTATIVE FROM LIGHTS ON IF THEY WERE CONSIDERING EXPANDING THEIR PROGRAM INTO OTHER TYPE OF CONSIDERATIONS.
AND, AND AT THE TIME THEY WERE FUNDED THROUGH A MICRO GRANT PROGRAM, UM, FEDERALLY, AND SO THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT SCALABILITY AND SUSTAINABILITY, BUT THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITIES THERE.
UM, I ALSO THINK THAT I HAVE SEEN AN EVOLUTION IN MY CAREER ON, UM, WHERE THOSE ESCALATIONS IMPACTING DRIVER'S LICENSE, UM, UM, BEING VALID OR IMPOUNDING AND TOWING OF VEHICLES DRASTICALLY EVOLVED.
AND SO, UM, WE GENERALLY ARE NOT TAKING, UH, AN ARREST OR ESCALATING THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE A PERSON'S LICENSE STATUS IS SUSPENDED FOR EQUIPMENT VIOLATIONS.
NORMALLY WE'RE SEEING THINGS WHERE THEY'RE SUSPENDED, UH, AND HAVE A, A MISDEMEANOR VIOLATION FOR DRIVING WITHOUT A VALID LICENSE WHEN IT'S, THEY'RE DETERMINED TO BE AN UNSAFE DRIVER BASED ON PRETTY EGREGIOUS DRIVING VIOLATIONS OR THEIR LICENSE HAS BEEN SUSPENDED FOR DUIS.
AND THOSE, THOSE THINGS THAT ARE REALLY, UH, BECOMING A PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERN MORE SO THAN, THAN YOUR VEHICLE'S BEEN NOT REGISTERED OR YOU HAD A BRAKE LIGHT THAT NOW ESCALATED.
I ALSO KNOW THAT THE DONE SOME AMNESTY PROGRAMS THROUGHOUT THE YEARS WHERE THEY'VE TRIED TO WAIVE, UM, THE FINES THAT HAVE ACCRUED TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO RESTORE OR FIND PAYMENT PROGRAMS TO GET BACK TO THE PLACE WHERE THEY CAN, UM, MAKE SURE ALL THEIR, THEIR REGISTRATION AND THEIR VEHICLE LIFE LICENSINGS IN, IN, UH, GOOD ORDER.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE? ANY OTHER COMMENTS? OKAY.
I REALLY APPRECIATE, UH, YOUR PRESENTATION.
UM, AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO OPEN FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE PRESENTATION ITEM AND ASK SPEAKERS TO BRING THEIR SPEAKER CARDS TO THE CLERK'S DESK IF THEY HAVE NOT ALREADY.
WE HAD ZERO, UH, AHEAD OF TIME, UM, ONLINE FOR THIS SPECIFIC TOPIC.
AND LIKE NOTHING QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED, SO THANK YOU.
CAN I JUST TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO THANK DR, UM, LORI FOR HER, HER HELP TONIGHT? WE, UH, WE APPRECIATE IT.
UM, AND, AND ALSO I JUST WANTED TO, TO MAYBE SEGUE THAT THE INTENTION, AGAIN FOR THE PUBLIC THAT MAY BE WATCHING IS THAT WE WANTED TO PROVIDE THIS INTRODUCTION TO THE TOPIC SO THAT WE COULD HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING ESTABLISHED A BASELINE OF UNDERSTANDING, SO THAT IN THE NEAR FUTURE, IN JANUARY OR FEBRUARY WHEN OUR AUDITORS COMPLETED THEIR ANNUAL REPORT AND THIS YEAR, PART OF THAT REPORT WILL BE LOOKING AT OUR RIPPA DATA SPECIFICALLY AS WELL AS OUR USE OF FORCE DATA THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO, TO DRAW BACK FROM THIS, UM, REFRESH OUR RECOLLECTION FROM SOME OF THE HANDOUT MATERIALS.
UH, YOU ALSO HAVE A, A NATIONAL EXPERT THAT WE WILL HAVE A POINT OF CONTACT TO IF WE HAVE SOME FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS.
AND THEN HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE BETTER PREPARED TO NAVIGATE OUR LOCAL CONVERSATION WITH OUR POLICE AUDITOR AT THAT TIME.
[PUBLIC HEARINGS AND MATTERS FOR CONSIDERATION]
UM, AT THIS TIME, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM, UH, PUBLIC HEARINGS AND MATTERS FOR CONSIDERATION REVIEW AND DISCUSS THE SF CHRONICLES ARTICLE ABOUT CLEAN AGREEMENTS.UM, I'D LIKE TO INVITE THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY, JORDAN GREEN TO PRESENT GOOD A EVENING COMMITTEE
[00:55:01]
MEMBERS.I HAVE ALREADY SUBMITTED A STAFF REPORT ALONG WITH THE EXHIBITS TO EVERYONE AND AN EMAIL ADVISING IT.
SO I DO NOT HAVE A POWERPOINT TO PRESENT TODAY.
I WAS JUST GONNA BRIEFLY COVER WHAT WAS, WHAT WE, WHAT WAS BROUGHT TO THE CITY'S ATTENTION, OUR DISCIPLINE PROCESS, THE TWO SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS THAT WE'VE DISCLOSED TO THE MEDIA, AND THEN OPEN UP FOR DISCUSSION BECAUSE THAT WAS REALLY WHAT I THINK WE WANTED HERE, WAS TO ALLOW YOU TIME TO DISCUSS AND ASK ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE WHILE YOU HAVE MYSELF AS WELL AS OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT HERE, SO WE COULD ANSWER THEM.
SO BRIEFLY, THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE IN SEPTEMBER OF 2024 ISSUED, I SAW TWO PARTS WHEN I LAST LOOKED, I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S BEEN UPDATED SINCE LAST WEEK, BUT THEY ISSUED BASICALLY TWO PARTS OF A STORY WHERE THEY, UH, LET, WHERE THEY NAMED SEVERAL PUBLIC ENTITIES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA HAVE ALLEGEDLY ENGAGING IN CLEAN ACT AGREEMENTS.
WHAT I GATHERED FROM THE STORIES THAT I READ ON THERE IS THAT THERE WAS ACCUSATIONS THAT POLICE DEPARTMENTS WERE BASICALLY ALLOW SAYING, HEY, WHEN YOU HAVE A POLICE OFFICER COMMITTING MISCONDUCT, SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND JUST KIND OF ALLOW, IF YOU WANNA LEAVE, WE'RE GONNA CLEAN OUT YOUR FILES SO THE NEXT POLICE DEPARTMENT WON'T KNOW, AND YOU COULD BE SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM.
THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION FROM WHAT I READ IN THEIR ARTICLES.
BUT ESSENTIALLY THEY'RE ALLEGING POLICE DEPARTMENTS WOULD KIND OF GIVE SOMEONE A GREEN LIGHT TO GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE AND NOT PUT IN THEIR FILES SO THEY COULD GET HIRED AGAIN.
I RECALL WHEN THE, ONE OF THE CO-AUTHORS OF THAT NEWSPAPER OF THAT ARTICLE EMAILED ME YEARS AGO, RIGHT AFTER SB 1421 CAME INTO EFFECT ASKING FOR ALL OF OUR RECORDS THAT WOULD BE PUBLIC REC, ALL DISCIPLINE RECORDS THAT WOULD BE PUBLIC RECORD UNDER SB 1421, WHICH, AND I CAN PULL IT UP, BUT IT'S MOSTLY WHEN THERE'S, YOU KNOW, UH, SUSTAINED FINDINGS OF DISHONESTY OR CERTAIN SEXUAL OFFENSES OR BIAS OR GREAT BODILY INJURY OR EXCESSIVE FORCE, DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF RECORDS.
AND I RECALL WORKING WITH OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT AND HR TO REVIEW ALL THE FILES AND TO SEE WHAT, IF ANYTHING, WAS PUBLIC RECORD UNDER ALL THESE NEW LAWS.
AND AFTER CONDUCTING THAT SEARCH, WE PROVIDED TWO, AND BY WE, IT WAS VIA ME TO MS. ROUSH PROVIDED TWO SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS, ONE IN FOR MS. BAILEY AND ONE FOR MR. SEARS.
THERE WERE NO PUBLIC DISCIPLINARY RECORDS RELATED TO THOSE THAT WE COULD DISCLOSE.
AND BOTH OF THOSE MATTERS HAPPENED BEFORE MY TIME.
BUT THERE WERE TWO SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS THAT WE DISCLOSED.
I'VE REVIEWED BOTH OF THOSE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS AND I, I BELIEVE, I DO NOT KNOW, BUT IT APPEARS THAT THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE MISINTERPRETED OR MISUNDERSTOOD THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS BECAUSE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE CITY NEVER PROMISED ANY OFFICER THAT WE WOULD HIDE ANY OF THEIR RECORDS IN ORDER TO INDUCE THEM TO LEAVE.
THE CITY DID ENGAGE IN SETTLEMENT DISCUSSIONS WHEN THERE WERE ACTIVE CLAIMS AND REACHED AN AGREEMENT, WHICH IN MS. BAILEY'S CASE, WAS STILL SUBJECT TO A WORKERS' COMP JUDGE, THE EEO AND THE IDR CALPERS.
SO ALL OF THE, AND THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS THEMSELVES ARE PUBLIC.
SO IF SOMEONE, OR IDEALLY WHEN THEY, SOMEONE'S GONNA HIRE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, THEY REVIEW THE PERSONNEL FILES AND ASK THE AGENCY FOR RECORDS AND THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THESE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS.
SO THERE WAS NOTHING HIDDEN THAT I'M AWARE OF.
UH, THE CITY CANNOT PROMISE SOMEONE, OH, AN INDUSTRIAL DISABILITY RETIREMENT, THERE NEEDS TO BE SUFFICIENT MEDICAL EVIDENCE.
AND CALPERS NEEDS TO MAKE THAT FINDING.
THEY DO SEEK TO US TO RELATE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, HONESTLY, PROVIDE THEM WITH THE OFFICER'S PERSONNEL FILE, WHICH THE CITY'S REQUIRED TO DO BY LAW, AND WHICH WE DO, AND WHICH I COULD TELL YOU WE HAVE DONE.
'CAUSE I HAVE WORKED WITH OUR RISK DEPARTMENT TO REVIEW OFFICER'S PERSONNEL FILES AND PROVIDE ALL OF THAT TO CALPERS.
WE HAVE REACHED OUT TO SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE TO, OR ASKED WHAT THEY MADE THESE DECISIONS BASED ON, BECAUSE THE SEARCH OF MY RECORD SOLELY, WE DISCOVERED THESE TWO AGREEMENTS, BUT WE DID NOT HEAR BACK FROM THEM.
SO WE'RE JUST HERE TO SAY WE ARE AWARE OF IT.
WE HAVE REACHED OUT, I'VE SEARCHED MY RECORDS AND I DID DISCLOSE THOSE TWO AGREEMENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE PUBLIC INFORMATION AND WE'RE RESPONSIVE TO THE RECORDS REQUEST, BUT THE CITY DOESN'T ENGAGE IN ANY ACTIONS TO HIDE SOMEONE'S MISCONDUCT FOR THEM TO GO AWAY.
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OFFICERS ARE ALLOWED TO RESIGN AT ANY TIME.WE CANNOT PREVENT SOMEONE FROM RESIGNING.
SO IF THERE'S AN INVESTIGATION GOING ON, THEN THEY MAY RESIGN.
AND IF THEY DO, WE'RE NOT GONNA ENTER ISSUE A NOTICE OF INTENT TO TERMINATE OR NOTICE OF TERMINATE BECAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY RESIGNED.
HOWEVER, THE INVESTIGATION, WE WILL STILL COMPLETE THE INVESTIGATION REPORT AND THAT REPORT WILL GO IN THEIR PERSONNEL FILE.
OBVIOUSLY THAT DEPENDS ON THE FINDINGS AND THE LAWS, BUT IF THERE IS ANY SUSTAINED FINDINGS OF MISCONDUCT, IT IS PLACED IN THEIR PERSONNEL FILE.
AND THEN OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES WOULD REVIEW THAT.
CALPERS WOULD REVIEW THAT AND SIMILAR.
SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, I WAS HOPING WE COULD OPEN UP TO QUESTIONS.
IF YOU WANNA TALK AMONGST YOURSELF OR ASK ME OR ANYONE ELSE HERE, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER.
UM, SO I, I LOOKED AT THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS AND SO THOSE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS WERE SITUATIONS WHERE THOSE TWO OFFICERS SUED THE CITY AND THAT'S THERE, THERE, THE SETTLEMENTS WERE, WERE BAILEY, UM, SUED UNDER THE A DA IN TITLE VII.
AND SEARS SEEMS TO HAVE, UM, SUED UNDERAGE DISCRIMINATION.
I MEAN IF THAT'S THE ONES I LOOKED AT.
AND AND BAILEY SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T SAY ANY THAT HE, SHE SEEMED TO GET $15,000 AND WOULD BE APPLYING FOR THE DISABILITY RETIREMENT.
AND SEARS SAID IT WAS A $75,000 SETTLEMENT.
THAT'S WHY I WAS WONDERING HOW SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE CAME UP WITH 425 ANYWAY.
BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THE MISSING LINK IS WERE THE, WERE, WERE THERE, DID THEY FILE THE SUITS BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING, THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE BEING, UM, YOU KNOW, DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BECAUSE THEY WERE FACING DISCIPLINARY CHARGES.
AND IF SO, WHAT WERE THOSE DISCIPLINARY CHARGES? 'CAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THOSE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS ARE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS FOR SETTLING THE LAW, THE OFFICER'S LAWSUITS AGAINST THE CITY.
AM I INCORRECT ABOUT THAT? WELL, I'M GONNA BE THAT REALLY ANNOYING ATTORNEY WHO SAYS, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST THE CITY INVOLVING THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS, BUT THERE WERE CLAIMS, WHICH IS TECHNICAL TERMS, BUT I'M, YOU KNOW, THAT'S MY JOB HERE.
SO,
WHY WOULD THERE BE A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS LIKE SAYING WE'RE GONNA, IT'S MUTUALLY AGREEABLE THAT THEY'RE GONNA LEAVE MM-HMM,
AND IT DOESN'T SAY AGAIN, LIKE, LIKE THERE'S IT, LIKE IT'S NOT A LAWSUIT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT A RIGHT, SO IT'S NOT A, SO I'M JUST BEING TECHNICAL.
THERE WAS NO LAWSUITS THAT I SEE REFERENCED HERE.
AND SO I'M JUST BEING TECHNICAL 'CAUSE THAT'S MY JOB.
BUT WHAT IS, BUT THERE IS AN EEOC CHARGE.
SO YOU COULD FILE A, LET'S SAY UNDER THE CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT CLAIMS ACT, RIGHT? LIKE YOU TRIP AND FALL, YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO FILE A CLAIM BEFORE A LAWSUIT, THE CITY.
AND THE POINT OF THAT IS TO ALLOW THE CITY TO INVESTIGATE IT.
AND IF IT DETERMINES THAT IT, YOU KNOW WHAT, THERE MAY BE LIABILITY HERE, WE WANNA SETTLE THIS RIGHT AWAY RATHER THAN WASTE TIME ON ATTORNEY'S FEES.
A I UNDERSTAND, I DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY THAT THERE WAS A, A LAWSUIT THAT WENT TO COURT AND, AND I DIDN'T MEAN THAT THERE WAS AN ACTUAL CASE FILED.
I MEANT THERE WAS A, SOMETHING HAPPENED SUCH YES.
THAT THERE, THERE WAS LIKE A CLAIM THAT THE CITY DID SOMETHING WRONG.
AND THIS IS A SETTLEMENT OF THAT.
AND I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S, IF WE, IF THERE'S ANY WAY FOR US, THIS IS ALL BEFORE YOU.
UM, PEGGY, WHEN SHE WAS SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ALL BEFORE ANYBODY INVOLVED, ALTHOUGH ERIC DOES SEEM TO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED.
BUT YOU KNOW, JUST A MATTER OF THAT, IF WE COULD FIND OUT MAYBE IF THERE WAS SOME PENDING DISCIPLINE WHEN THESE OFFICERS SAID, I'M, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT CITY CONDUCT.
LIKE THAT MIGHT EXPLAIN IT AGAIN.
NO, LET, YEAH, TOTALLY GET IT.
SO OBVI, SO THERE WERE NO DISCIPLINE RECORDS THAT WERE PUBLIC INFORMATION WHEN THIS RECORDS REQUEST CAME AVAILABLE.
IF IT'S NOT, IF THE RECORDS WERE NOT DISCLOSABLE AND THEY WERE CONFIDENTIAL PEACE OFFICER RECORDS, THEN I CANNOT COMMENT ON THEM.
SO WITH MR. SEARS, I HAVEN'T SEEN HIS FILE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THERE SO EASY ENOUGH, I AM NOT DISCLOSING ANYTHING.
BUT YOU COULD READ THE TERMS. BUT ACCORDING TO THE TERMS OF THIS SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT, IT SAYS THE CITY HAS ACCEPTED SEARS RESIGNATION EFFECTIVE AUGUST 22ND, 2013, AND HIS TERMINATION IS ACCORDINGLY WITHDRAWN.
SEARS AGREES THAT HE DOES NOT POSSESS ANY RIGHTS OR CLAIMS TO EMPLOYMENT WITH THE CITY AFTER AUGUST 22ND, 2013.
IT ALSO DISCUSSES THE 75,000 AND THAT THERE WAS A
[01:05:02]
ARBITRATION PENDING BEFORE RETIRED JUDGE PATRICK MAHONEY, PURSUANT TO THE STIPULATION EXECUTED JANUARY 28TH, 2014.SO I THINK ONE COULD INTERPRET THAT TO MEAN THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY AN ARBITRATION THAT AROSE OUT OF PROCEEDINGS, BUT NONE OF THAT IS PUBLIC INFORMATION.
NO, JUST, I'M WONDERING IF IT, AGAIN, I KNOW THIS IS ALL MM-HMM.
SO, I MEAN, SO EVEN IF IT WASN'T DISCLOSABLE AT THE TIME THAT IT IS, IF, IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, POLICE USE OF FORCE OR SERIOUS MISCONDUCT THAT LED, YOU KNOW, WAS THE PRECIPITATING FACTOR TO THESE THINGS.
I'M JUST WONDERING IF IT'S LIKE, AND ALSO IT'S OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO CHANGE ANYTHING, BUT THAT MIGHT, THAT I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE WOULD, WOULD JUST MAKE IT UP OUT, OUT OF WHOLE CLOTH.
I'M NOT, AND I'M NOT SAYING THEY DID.
I KNOW THAT I DISCLOSED THESE TWO AGREEMENTS TO THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE BASED ON MY REVIEW OF RECORDS.
AND SO I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THEIR INFORMATION IS BASED ON THIS AND POSSIBLY OTHER INFORMATION PROVIDED BY OTHER CITIES STAFF.
YOU KNOW, I SEARCHED MINE, SO I CAN ONLY TELL YOU WHAT I KNOW.
I'VE SEARCHED AND WHAT WE'VE DISCLOSED.
WE DID NOT HAVE, NOW WE HAVE NEXT REQUEST, SO WE COULD GO BACK AND LOOK AT EVERY PRA AND WHAT WAS DISCLOSED, BUT WE DID NOT HAVE THAT IN 2014.
SO I CONDUCTED A SEARCH TO SEE WHAT I DISCLOSED.
'CAUSE I REMEMBER INTERACTING WITH MS. ROUSH.
SO, NO, I'M NOT PRETENDING THAT, OR I'M NOT ALLEGING THEY MADE ANYTHING UP.
I KNOW, BASED ON MY RESEARCH THAT WE PROVIDED THESE, SO I WOULD SUSPECT THESE WERE PART OF THEIR REASONING FOR NAMING THE CITY OF PETALUMA.
WE REACHED OUT TO ASK THEM WHAT THE BASIS WAS, AND WE DIDN'T HEAR BACK.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE.
I JUST KNOW I DISCLOSED THESE, AND IF YOU LOOK AT IT BASED ON THE WRITINGS OF THESE SETTLEMENTS, THERE WAS SOME ALLEGATIONS MADE AND THE CITY DECIDED TO STUDY.
IF I'M LOOKING AT PAGE ONE, UH, OR PAGE SEVEN OF MR. SEA'S AGREEMENT SAYS THE PARTIES FURTHER AGREE THAT SEARS MAY, WITHIN THREE CALENDAR DAYS OF THE PARTY'S EXECUTION OF THIS AGREEMENT, SUBMIT A CONFIDENTIAL WRITTEN REBUTTAL DUE THE NOTICE OF FINAL DISCIPLINE THAT WAS ISSUED TO SEARS ON AUGUST 22ND, 2013.
IF SARAH SUBMITS SUCH A WRITTEN REBUTTAL, IT WILL BE STORED IN HIS PERSONAL FILE AND SUB SUBJECT TO APPLICABLE PROTECTIONS DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH NINE OF THIS AGREEMENT.
SO THERE, ALL I COULD SAY IS WHAT'S IN THIS AGREEMENT IS PUBLIC INFORMATION.
ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE PRIVATE OR CONFIDENTIAL PURSUANT TO THE LAW.
BUT BASED ON THIS AGREEMENT, OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING HAPPENED, THEY WERE GONNA ARBITRATION.
I REMEMBER AT THE TIME THERE WERE NEWSPAPER ARTICLES, SO I'M SURE SOMEONE COULD GOOGLE, BECAUSE THAT WAS RIGHT AROUND WHEN I WAS APPLYING, AND I REMEMBER GOOGLING THE CITY OF PETALUMA AND BEING LIKE, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? SO ANYONE COULD GOOGLE THAT TO READ ABOUT IT, BUT BASED ON THIS, THERE WAS SOMETHING BASED ON THIS ARGUMENT OR THIS AGREEMENT, SOMETHING WAS GOING ON.
THEY CITY AGREED TO SETTLE UP, BUT THIS SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT IS STILL PUBLIC.
SO IF ANYONE ELSE WERE TO LOOK OR ASK THE CITY, THEY COULD DIS THEY COULD REVIEW IT AS WELL.
SO THERE'S NOT SECRETS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
BESIDES WHAT'S, AND AGAIN, I WASN'T, I OH YEAH, I DON'T MEAN I, IT WAS PURELY LIKE, OBVIOUSLY THOSE SETTLEMENTS WERE NOT, LIKE YOU CAN'T, YOU COULDN'T INFER FROM THE IN SETTLEMENT THAT THERE WAS SOME DISCIPLINE PENDING.
IN FACT, I MISSED THAT ABOUT THE, THE, THE SECOND, THE SEER SETTLEMENT.
BUT, SO THAT'S PROBABLY, IT PROBABLY IS THE SITUATION WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY, THERE WAS DISCIPLINE.
THE OFFICER SAID, NO, NO, UH, YOU'RE DIS DISCRIMINATING AGAINST ME, OR YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING.
THEY INSTITUTED THIS, IT GOT A SETTLEMENT.
AND YEAH, THE, I GUESS THE ISSUE BECOMES HOW DO WE MAKE SURE IT NEVER HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE IF THAT'S, IF, IF THERE WAS SOMETHING, IF THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN LIKE 75 GRAND AND BEING ABLE TO GO OFF TO LAW SCHOOL, IF THE PERSON'S, UM, YOU KNOW, WELL, I COULD JUST SPEAK TO THE PRACTICES NOW, WHICH ARE THAT THERE'S CHECKS AND BALANCES WHEN THERE'S MISCONDUCT ALLEGED, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT GOES TO HR, GOES TO CITY ATTORNEY, AND I BELIEVE BACK IN THE DAY THIS, YOU HAVE THIS AS HAD HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE CITY MANAGER AS WELL AS THE CITY ATTORNEY.
AND BECAUSE IT'S, THE CITY MANAGER HAS SETTLEMENT APPROVAL OF $50,000
[01:10:01]
OR LESS, THEREFORE, TO ENTER INTO A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT OF MORE THAN $50,000 AND ALSO NEEDS THE COUNCIL'S APPROVAL.SO ANY SETTLEMENTS SUCH AS THIS GO THROUGH ROUNDS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES BETWEEN POLICE DEPARTMENT.
NOW THE INDEPENDENT POLICE AUDITOR, HR CITY MANAGER, AND ANYTHING MORE THAN 50,000 ALSO HAS TO BE APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL.
SO THERE ARE CHECKS AND BALANCES TO ENSURE THERE'S NOTHING AND TOWARD HAPPENING, LIKE EVERYTHING'S, PLEASE, MR. CHAIR, MS. JORDAN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, UM, WHEN A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT IS PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL, ENCLOSED SESSION, USUALLY THE FACTORS THAT ARE PRESENTED ARE, UH, WHAT THE COST TO THE CITY WOULD BE TO GO TO TRIAL ON THAT CASE.
OFTENTIMES THAT INCLUDES OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS AND EXPERT WITNESSES.
AND SO THAT'S PART OF THE, THE PACKAGE THAT'S PRESENTED TO THE COUNSEL.
AND THE COUNSEL THEN HAS TO MAKE A DECISION, ARE WE WILLING TO EXPEND A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS IN TAXPAYER MONEY TO GO TO COURT ON A CASE OR CAN WE SETTLE IT FOR, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED THOUSAND OR 75,000? SO IT'S BEEN FOUR YEARS SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE COUNCIL.
THAT'S A PRACTICE WHEN I WAS ON THE COUNCIL FOR THE 10 YEARS.
UH, COUNCIL MEMBER
AND SO THAT'S JUST WHAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS, UM, TO BE PRUDENT.
UM, AR YOU KNOW, PRUDENT, UH, UH, STEWARDS OF THE, THE PUBLIC'S MONEY, THAT IS A HUNDRED PERCENT ACCURATE.
WHEN WE GO TO COUNSEL AND TAKE A SETTLEMENT SUCH AS THIS TO THEM, OR POLICE MISCONDUCT LAWSUIT ONE FACTORY, WE OBVIOUSLY PROVIDE THEM WITH THE FACTS, OUR ANALYSIS OF LIABILITY AS WELL AS, HEY, YES, WE HAVE A HIGH LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCEEDING, HOWEVER, THAT MAY COST $200,000.
AND THEN THERE'S STILL A WHAT YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT A JURY WILL DO.
SO THAT'S, THANK YOU FOR RAISING THAT.
AND I, I ALSO, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I WAS CLEAR, 'CAUSE I, FROM YOUR, YOUR STATEMENT, I THINK I WASN'T, 'CAUSE I'M DEFINITELY, I WORKED AS A CITY ATTORNEY FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.
I KNOW HOW SETTLEMENTS, THE ISSUE HERE WAS NOT THAT WE SETTLED, IT WAS A MATTER OF THE FACT THAT WAS THERE.
WAS THERE A PENDING DISCIPLINE AND HOW, LIKE WHERE'S THE CONNECTION TO THAT AND HOW DO WE FIND OUT? 'CAUSE THAT WOULD EXPLAIN, MAYBE COULD EXPLAIN WHY SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE DID PUT SAY THAT TWO POLICE OFFICERS IN PETALUMA RECEIVED CLEAN RECORD AGREEMENTS FOR 400 COSTING THE TAXPAYERS $425,000.
I NOT AT ALL SAYING THAT THE SETTLEMENTS WERE OFF OR WRONG OR WEREN'T, WEREN'T THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE CITY AT ALL.
IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF LIKE, WHAT'S THE CONNECTION THERE BETWEEN THE DISCIPLINE? UM, IS A COUPLE COMMENTS.
UH, THE FIRST CASE, UH, THE BAILEY CASE, UM, I MEAN, I JUST WANTED TO, UH, IMPARTIAL A RESPONSE TO WHAT ELLEN SAID.
YOU COULD DISAGREE IF, BUT MENTIONS THAT PART OF THAT MONEY IS FOR A COMPROMISE AND RELEASE OF A WORKERS' COMP CLAIM, I THINK TOO.
WHICH, AND THAT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY EVEN FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR A COMPROMISE AND RELEASE.
SO I I IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THERE'S MUCH MONEY, UH, MUCH PLACE FOR A, UH, A CLAIM, UM, A A, UH, MALFEASANCE THAT, YOU KNOW, WAS LEADING TO THIS.
BUT THEN THE SECOND THING I WONDERED, IS IT POSSIBLE, AND AGAIN, I THINK YOU WOULD'VE SAID THIS ALREADY IF YOU THOUGHT IT WAS THAT THE, YOU KNOW, THE WAY THEY PHRASED THEIR REQUEST FOR RECORDS, YOU KNOW, THEY THOUGHT WAS LIMITING IT TO THOSE THINGS, AND IT TURNED OUT THAT IT WAS JUST A, A BAD WAY TO PHRASE THEIR REQUEST FOR RECORDS THAT LED TO, YOU KNOW, US PRODUCING RECORDS THAT DIDN'T, IT DIDN'T SUPPORT WHAT THEIR CLAIM WAS IN THE ARTICLE.
DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? NO, PROBABLY NOT.
WHAT I, AND I DON'T HAVE THE EMAILS IN FRONT OF ME.
WHAT I RECALL IS THEY ASKED FOR ANY RECORDS THAT WOULD BE PUBLIC RECORDS UNDER WHAT IS NOW A PENAL CODE 8 32 0.7.
WHICH I THINK THEY REFER TO AS THE NEW LAWS B 1421.
AND WE SEARCHED ALL OF PEACE, ALL PEACE OFFICER FILES WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND WITH HR AND PRODUCED ANY RECORDS THAT WERE PUBLIC INFORMATION AT THE TIME.
IT'S BASED ON MY RECOLLECTION.
AND, AND I WOULD JUST OFFER TO, YOU KNOW, MANY OF THESE INCIDENTS, UH, PREDATE MY TENURE AS A, AS A SEASONED OFFICER.
UM, SO I DON'T REALLY HAVE GENERAL AWARENESS TO THE CONTEXT OF THOSE, BUT, BUT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN, IN A NUMBER OF DISCIPLINARY PROCEEDINGS IN, IN OUR AGENCY FOR A VARIETY OF, OF DIFFERENT POLICY ISSUES.
[01:15:01]
WORKERS' COMP CLAIMS, WE DEAL WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE PENDING DISCIPLINARY ACTION.UM, AND SO WE WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM, WITH THE HR TEAM, AND NOW WE'VE INTEGRATED OUR POLICE AUDITOR IN THAT.
SO THEY KNOW ON THE ONSET OF ANY INTERNAL AFFAIRS INVESTIGATION OR CITIZEN COMPLAINT THAT WE HAVE, THAT THEY KNOW UPDATES AND STATUSES THROUGHOUT THAT PROCESS.
UH, IF THERE'S A SEPARATION OR ANY CHANGES OR ANY LITIGATION OR CLAIMS, THEY'RE AWARE AND BRIEFED OF THOSE AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE FOLLOWING AND TRACKING THE ENTIRE, UM, PROCESS.
UM, IF WE HAVE A SEPARATION, WE CONTINUE AS CITY ATTORNEY GREEN MENTIONED, TO COMPLETE OUR INVESTIGATION.
UM, WE, IF THEY ARE NO LONGER A CITY EMPLOYEE, WE CAN'T DISCIPLINE THEM, BUT WE CAN FIND A FINDING SO WE CAN SUSTAIN A VIOLATION THERE, COMPLETE THAT INVESTIGATION.
WE WOULD NOTIFY THAT INDIVIDUAL THAT WE'VE MADE A FINDING IN THAT PROCEEDING, AND WE GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE A STATEMENT IN RESPONSE TO THAT, AND WE WOULD ATTACH IT AND WE COMPLETE IT, AND THEN WE RETAIN IT NOW IN COORDINANCE WITH THAT.
SO, UH, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN, UM, DISCUSSIONS MORE BROADLY.
SOME AGENCIES HAVE NOT NECESSARILY ADHERED TO THAT PRACTICE OF COMPLETING THINGS AND LEAVING THEM AMBIGUOUS AND UN UN UH, WITH A LACK OF CLOSURE.
THAT'S NOT BEEN MY EXPERIENCE AS, AS A POLICE EXECUTIVE HERE SINCE, YOU KNOW, THE LATE 2000 AND TENS.
SO WE DO SEE THOSE THINGS THROUGH, THROUGH, UH, WE PROVIDE IF AN EMPLOYEE'S GOING THROUGH ANOTHER PROCESS, UH, GENERALLY LIKE WORKERS' COMP PROCESSES, WE SEE SOME OF THOSE.
WE PROVIDE ALL THOSE MATERIALS, THOSE COMPLETED INVESTIGATIONS AND FINDINGS TO THE WORKERS' COMP BOARD, TO CALPERS, AND THEY MAKE THOSE DECISIONS WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO ACCEPT THOSE OR NOT.
AND THAT'S OUTSIDE OF OUR PURVIEW.
SO HOPEFULLY THAT HELPS PROVIDE A LITTLE CONTEXT.
AND I, I, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M, I'M I YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU'RE THE PERSON WHO GAVE THEM THE TWO SETTLEMENTS? YES, I RECALL GIVING IN, I CHECKED MY JUST WHY WOULD YOU GIVE, JUST IF YOU RECALL, WHY YOU GAVE THEM THE BAILEY SETTLEMENT? 'CAUSE I DON'T RECALL ANYTHING IN THERE THAT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT PENDING DISCIPLINE OR ANYTHING ABOUT DISCIPLINE.
I JUST RECALL THEY ASKED FOR RECORDS.
WE SEARCHED ALL THE FILES, AND THESE WERE RESPONSIVE TO THEIR REQUEST.
OH, SO THEY DIDN'T ASK IF IT WAS PEOPLE WHO GOT SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS WHEN THEY'RE PENDING DISCIPLINE? THEY COULD, I, I DON'T RECALL SPECIFICALLY WHAT THEY ASKED.
OH, I FEEL THIS CAME OUT AFTER US B 1421.
SHORTLY THEREAFTER, ALL THE MEDIA WAS REQUESTING ALL RECORDS THAT WERE PUBLIC.
SO I DON'T RECALL THE DETAILS.
I DID A SEARCH FOR MY EMAIL WHEN WE LEARNED OF THIS ARTICLE, AND THERE WAS AN EMAIL FROM ME TO MS. ROUGE PROVIDING THESE RECORDS.
NO, AGAIN, IT'S JUST, I JUST DON'T, YOU KNOW, ONLY 'CAUSE THE, THE, YOU KNOW, 8 32 0.7 IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EXPANDED POLICE PUBLIC ACCESS.
SO I'M, I'M LIKE, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST WAS SURPRISED WHEN I WAS READING THE SETTLEMENTS LIKE, WHAT, WHAT IS THE CONNECTION HERE? SO WE JUST, I GUESS THE ANSWER IS WE JUST NE WE'LL NEVER KNOW.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, JORDAN'S CORRECT IN HER RECOLLECTION.
WE WERE, WE WERE GETTING, AND HAVE BEEN GETTING, UH, FREQUENT, IF NOT MULTIPLE TIMES A YEAR OF THE SAME REQUESTS.
I THINK THE INTENTION THERE IS TO ENSURE THEY'RE CAPTURING, UH, A PERIOD OF TIME BOTH PAST AND PRESENT AND GOING FORWARD TO ENSURE THEY HAVE ALL RESPONSIVE RECORDS AND CONTINUE TO RECEIVE RESPONSIVE RECORDS.
AND, AND MY RECOLLECTION, JORDAN, WAS THAT IT WAS FOR, UH, SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS AND THEN THERE WAS A, AN ADJOINING, UM, FOR THE 8 32 0.7 RECORDS.
AND I WOULD IMAGINE THERE'S, TRYING TO SEE IF THERE ARE SIMILARITIES AMONGST THE TWO.
UM, SO WE, WE ARE TRY TO BE AS TRANSPARENT AS THE LAW ALLOWS US TO BE IN THESE SITUATIONS.
UM, BUT YEAH, I, I DON'T HAVE, AND WE DON'T HAVE, WE DID RECEIVE, WE DID RECEIVE, WE'VE RECEIVE A LOT OF PUBLIC RECORDS ACT REQUEST, AND THIS WAS YEARS AGO, BUT WE DID RECEIVE PRA REQUEST FOR ALL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS INVOLVING PEACE OFFICERS, SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT.
BUT, BUT TO YOUR POINT, WE, WHEN WE SAW THE ARTICLE, WE'RE SURPRISED AS A CITY AND A POLICE DEPARTMENT TO BE NAMED IN THERE.
WE FEEL, I FEEL VERY STRONGLY THAT WE ARE DOING THE MOST RESPONSIBLE EFFORTS.
AND IN ADDITION TO 1421, UM, AND THE OTHER LEGAL CHANGES, THERE'S BEEN SB TWO IN THE LAST TWO YEARS.
SO THE, THE, UM, IMPORTANCE OF COMPLETING AND FINDING A FINDING, ESPECIALLY IN THOSE CASES OF SERIOUS MISCONDUCT,
[01:20:01]
IS IMPERATIVE.AND WE REPORT THOSE TWO POSTS, WHICH CERTIFIES OUR POLICE OFFICERS NOW.
SO THOSE COMPLETED INVESTIGATIONS ARE NOW ADDITIONALLY REVIEWED BY POST, AND THEY MAKE A DETERMINATION ON WHETHER THE CONDUCT ARISES TO THE LEVEL WHERE AN OFFICER SHOULD BE DE-CERTIFIED.
ANYTIME THERE'S ALSO A SEPARATION OR CHANGE IN AN EMPLOYEE STATUS AT A POLICE OFFICER LEVEL, THEY RETIRE SEPARATE, RESIGN, UH, GO TO A DIFFERENT AGENCY.
WE REPORT THAT SEPARATION AND AGENCIES THAT ARE HIRING THEM OR INTENDING TO HIRE THEM ALSO HAVE TO REPORT THAT THEY INTEND TO.
AND THAT'S THAT CROSS-CHECKING CHECKS AND BALANCES TO MAKE SURE THAT IF ANYONE HAS, UH, INFORMATION THAT PRECLUDES THEM FROM BECOMING A POLICE OFFICER, NO ONE'S, UM, UM, UNKNOWINGLY, UH, UH, HIRING SOMEONE WITH THOSE TYPE OF RECORDS.
YOU HAVE A COMMENT? NO, I WAS JUST TRYING TO REMIND YOU THAT PUBLIC, WE, WE HAVEN'T DONE PUBLIC COMMENT YET.
UM, I DID HAVE ONE REALLY QUICK QUESTION BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT.
UH, YOU, YOU MENTIONED THAT IF A INVESTIGATION, EITHER PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, UM, STARTS AND THEN THERE'S A SEPARATION, A RESIGNATION OR TERMINATION, THAT THAT INVESTIGATION WOULD CONTINUE AND THE FINDINGS WOULD STILL, UM, WOULD STILL BE MADE PUBLIC.
UH, WHAT IF THE SEPARATION HAPPENS PRIOR TO THE INVESTIGATION STARTING, LIKE, LET'S, IS THERE LIKE A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS OR SORT OF LIKE, OH, THIS PERSON, THIS SEPARATION HAPPENED SIX MONTHS BEFORE WE STARTED THE INVESTIGATION.
DOES THAT INVESTIGATION STILL CONTINUE? OR IS THERE, LIKE, IF THE SEPARATION HAS HAPPENED BEFORE THE INVESTIGATION HAS STARTED, THE INVESTIGATION WON'T START? THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S COME UP YET.
AND, AND THE INTENTION OF LAUNCHING AN INTERNAL AFFAIRS INVESTIGATION IS FOR ADDRESSING THE EMPLOYEE'S CONDUCT.
SO I THINK WHEN ONCE WE'VE STARTED ONE, WE SEE IT THROUGH FINALITY.
I DON'T, AS JORDAN MENTIONED, WE'VE NOT YET ENCOUNTERED, AND THANKFULLY I HOPE WE DON'T ENCOUNTER THOSE SITUATIONS.
BUT GENERALLY I'VE, I'VE HEARD AND SEEN OF THOSE WHERE IT'S CRIMINAL CONDUCT, UM, THOSE INVESTIGATIONS CLEARLY CONTINUE.
AND I THINK THAT WOULD JUST DEPEND ON THE FACTS THAT ARE REPORTED, BECAUSE OFTENTIMES IT INVESTIGATIONS INVOLVE MORE THAN ONE PERSON AND MORE THAN ONE SUBJECT AND MORE THAN ONE VICTIM.
SO EVEN IF THE OFFICER MAY NO LONGER BE WITH US, WE WOULD STILL WANNA LOOK INTO THE VICTIM'S COMPLAINTS.
'CAUSE THERE COULD STILL BE OTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTORS.
SO I WOULD, YOU KNOW, SUSPECT THAT WE WOULD STILL LOOK INTO THAT BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE OTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTORS AND OTHER MATTERS TO ADDRESS.
SO WE WOULD STILL LOOK INTO THAT.
I JUST DON'T KNOW THE EXACT PROCESS.
AND I, I JUST KNOW THAT IN THE, IN THE COMMUNITY, THERE CAN BE SOME RELUCTANT RELUCTANCE FOR COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO COME FORWARD AND WANT TO TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED THAT COULD TAKE TIME.
AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS A, WE'RE AT LEAST THINKING ABOUT A PATHWAY FOR SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIME AFTER THE FACT REALIZING, HEY, THIS WASN'T RIGHT AND I WANNA SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW AND MAKE SURE THAT THIS OFFICERS COULDN'T, YOU KNOW, HAVE A SEPARATION FROM THIS POLICE DEPARTMENT, GO TO ANOTHER POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND THEN BE ABLE TO NOT HAVE THAT REPERCUSSION FOLLOWED.
UH, ANY OTHER, UH, QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE ON THIS TOPIC? OKAY.
AT THIS TIME I WOULD LIKE TO OPEN FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MATTERS FOR CONSIDERATION ITEM AND ASK SPEAKERS TO BRING THEIR SPEAKER CARDS TO THE CLERK'S DESK IF THEY HAVE NOT ALREADY.
I'D LIKE TO NOW INTRODUCE BETSY BERSON, UH, FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
I BELIEVE THE TIME IS THREE MINUTES, IS THAT CORRECT, CLERK? MM-HMM,
UM, SO I'M CURIOUS, UM, THE DOCTOR WHO SPOKE TALKED ABOUT HOW HIRING AND RECRUITMENT WAS SO CRITICAL TO AN EXCELLENT POLICE FORCE AND REDUCING BIAS.
AND I'M WONDERING ABOUT THESE CLEAN, UM, RECORD AGREEMENTS AND WHAT IMPLICATION THEY HAVE FOR US AS, HI, ON THE HIRING PROCESS.
DO WE HAVE, UM, APPLICANTS COME WHO MAY HAVE A BACKGROUND THAT YOU CAN'T DISCERN? AND THEN HOW, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE STRATEGIES YOU USE IN HIRING, I GUESS, TO AVOID ELIMINATE, UM, THE, THE LACK OF INFORMATION THAT MAY BE AVAILABLE? SURE.
AND, AND, UH, MAYBE I'LL PRIME LIEUTENANT AVIANO WHO'S
[01:25:01]
CURRENTLY OVERSEEING OUR PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS DIVISION AND ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR RECRUITMENT.YEAH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTION, BETSY.
SO, UM, CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME? SO THE, THE, THE BACKGROUND PROCESS IS PRETTY THOROUGH IN TERMS OF, UM, THE NUMBER OF STEPS THAT WE TAKE TO VET CANDIDATES.
UM, TYPICALLY WHEN WE, WE SPECIFIC TO THE CLEAN AGREEMENTS, UM, THAT WOULD BE APPLICABLE TO A LATERAL APPLICANT.
SO MEANING SOMEBODY WHO'S COMING FROM ANOTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY AND THE CHIEF SPOKE ABOUT POSTS, UH, OBLIGATION TO, UM, RECEIVE INFORMATION ABOUT WHY THEY'RE LEAVING THEIR ORGANIZATION, WHETHER IT'S AN INVOLUNTARY SEPARATION RESIGNATION, UM, OR, OR IF THERE'S DISCIPLINE PENDING.
UM, SO THAT INFORMATION WOULD BE READILY AVAILABLE THROUGH POST.
AND THEN WHEN WE GO TO HIRE THEM, WE INQUIRE THROUGH POST, UH, TO VERIFY THAT INFORMATION.
SO IF THERE IS A PROCESS THAT'S STARTED, UH, WE WOULD BECOME AWARE OF THAT.
UM, ABSENT THE LATERAL APPLICANTS, UM, OUR BACKGROUND IS PRETTY THOROUGH.
AGAIN, ALL CALIFORNIA PEACE OFFICER STANDARD AND TRAINING APPROVED, UM, IT'S, YOU KNOW, STARTS WITH THE INTERVIEW PROCESS.
WE DO A POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION, A THOROUGH, THOROUGH RECORDS CHECK, UM, WITH, UH, PRIMARY SECONDARY SOURCES OF COURSE OF EMPLOYMENT, UH, RESIDENTIAL HISTORY, UM, AND THEN WE LOOK AT, UM, PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATION AND, AND MEDICAL.
SO IT'S A PRETTY THOROUGH PROCESS.
UM, AND THE STAFF REPORT ACTUALLY SPEAKS TO THAT FROM A BIAS PERSPECTIVE AND HOW, WHAT THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT, UM, THROUGH THAT LENS.
HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
SO I, I, IF I RECALL, THERE WAS SOME BRUHAHA WHEN THE SONOMA COUNTY HIRED AN OFFICER, I THINK FROM VALLEJO OR ALAMEDA.
THIS IS SOMETIME BACK AND MY MEMORY'S FUZZY AND IT TURNED OUT HE WAS NUMBER ONE OR TWO ON THE POLICE COMPLAINT LIST.
SO I'M ASSUMING THAT THE STRATEGIES WE HAVE IN PLACE WOULD MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN HERE,
AT THIS POINT WE ARE GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT, UH, SECTION.
[COMMITTEE COMMENT]
UH, AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO COMMITTEE COMMENT, UH, INTRODUCING THE LONG RANGE CALENDAR REGARDING UPCOMING UPCOMING MEETING DATES AND OR POTENTIAL AGENDA ITEMS. UM, I DO REMEMBER THAT WE SETTLED ON NOVEMBER 21ST, WHICH IS A THURSDAY AS OUR NEXT MEETING DATE.UM, BUT I DON'T RECALL EXACTLY WHAT WERE THE AGENDA ITEMS FOR THOSE.
ANYTHING FROM STAFF REMEMBER WHAT OUR AGENDAS ITEMS ARE FOR THE NEXT, UH, MEETING.
AND IS THERE ANY COMMENTS FROM THE COMMITTEE OR ADDITIONAL AGENDA ITEMS THAT THEY'D LIKE TO ADD? SURE.
AND I'LL JUST, UH, FOR RECOLLECTION, SO THE LONG RANGE CALENDARS ATTACHED TO THE AGENDA PACKET AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO ATTACH THAT ON EVERY MEETING.
AND SO, UH, IN WHEN WE REFLECTED ON LAST MEETING, THE DIRECTION THE COMMITTEE RECEIVED WAS THAT THE PSAC WORK PLAN WAS GONNA BE DISCUSSED WITH THE INDEPENDENT POLICE AUDITOR AS WELL AS, UM, METHODS OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND OUTREACH WERE GONNA BE LED BY THE IPA.
AND SO THOSE ARE BOTH, UH, AGENDIZED AND WE ANTICIPATE HAVING, UM, JEFF SCHLANGER, THE INTEGRA SHERE IPA FOR US LEADING THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU ALL IN THE NOVEMBER.
WE ARE AT 7 31, SO YOU NEED TO VOTE TO EXTEND BY 15 MINUTES.
I WOULD VOTE TO EXTEND BY 15 MINUTES.
VOTE PASSES UNANIMOUSLY FOR EXTENSION OF 15 MINUTES.
COMMITTEE COMMENTS? WE JUST DID, WE JUST DID I, I THINK YOU'RE STILL WITH COMMITTEE COMMENTS IF THERE WAS ANY COMMENTARY ON THE, UH, LONG RANGE AGENDA OR IF THE COMMITTEE HAS ANY COMMENTARY FOR IT? THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
I JUST WANTED TO SAY FIRST OF ALL THOUGH, I WANNA AS A, AS A JUST A COMMENT.
I HAD NO IDEA WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT RIPPA THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ACTUALLY THE, THAT, THAT PART AND YAY.
THAT WAS REALLY HELPFUL AND GREAT, SO APPRECIATE THAT.
UM, AND UH, SECOND, UH, I'M WONDERING IF WE COULD ALSO THINK ABOUT ADDING AS THE FUTURE AGENDA ITEM.
I'M REALLY GLAD THERE'S NO RED LIGHT CAMERA DATA STUFF GOING ON 'CAUSE THAT WOULD BE STRANGE.
BUT I KNOW THAT THERE ARE DEFINITELY ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE THINGS GOING ON, LICENSE PLATE READERS, FACIAL RECOGNITION.
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF REPORTING ABOUT, UH, UH, THE FACIAL RECOGNITION THAT THAT CRIMES ARE BEING, UM, ARE BEING, UH, CRIMINALS ARE BEING FOUND THROUGH THIS METHOD WITHOUT PEOPLE KNOWING ABOUT
[01:30:01]
IT.AND I, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT MORE IF POSSIBLE, JUST AS A, AN IDEA FOR THE COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER.
WE CAN ADD IT TO THE LIST AND, AND DISCUSS THAT, UH, TECHNOLOGY PRODUCTS VIDEO.
UM, BUT JUST FOR CONTEXT, WE DON'T, DON'T HAVE FACIAL RECOGNITION FUNCTIONALITY.
UM, UM, I DID HAVE ONE, UH, COMMITTEE STATEMENT AND POTENTIALLY A FUTURE GENDERIZED ITEM IF YOU, THE COMMITTEE WOULD BEAR WITH ME FOR A SECOND.
UM, LIKE MANY OUR COMMUNITY, THERE WAS A RECENT TRAFFIC STOP IN MIAMI ON SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 8TH BETWEEN A FAMOUS NFL FOOTBALL PLAYER IN THE LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT REIGNITED A DISCUSSION ABOUT POLICE HANDLING OF REFUSAL TO COMPLY IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
LEMME START OUT BY SAYING, AFTER WATCHING THE BODY-WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE AND READING THE STATEMENTS FROM EVERYONE INVOLVED, THERE WAS A LACK OF MATURITY AND MUTUAL RESPECT ON BOTH SIDES.
THAT WAS MOST LIKELY THE PREDOMINANT FACTOR THAT LED TO A NEGATIVE OUTCOME.
OUR MINORITY AND IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES ARE GENERALLY FEARFUL OF AND MISTRUST THE POLICE FOR REASONS THAT UNREASONABLE PEOPLE MAY CHOOSE TO DISAGREE WITH.
BUT TO THOSE OF US IN THESE COMMUNITIES FEELS NOT ONLY WARRANTED, BUT IN NECESSITY, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND LEARN FROM THE HISTORY THAT HAS CREATED SO MUCH FEAR AND MISTRUST IN ORDER TO OVERCOME IT.
WHEN YOU COMBINE FEAR AND MISTRUST IN ANY PERSON, THE OUTCOMES BECOME PREDICTABLY UNPREDICTABLE.
RATIONAL CHOICES GET REPLACED WITH IRRATIONAL ONES REASON SOARIES INTO DEFIANCE, AND A FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE FLOODS THE BODY WITH NEW AND UNPREDICTABLE STIMULI.
NO FAMILY SHOULD HAVE TO WORRY THAT THEIR LOVED ONES MAY NOT COME HOME BECAUSE THIS POTENT MIX OF CIRCUMSTANCES LED TO A VIOLENT OR EVEN FATAL INTERACTION WITH THE POLICE OR BY THE POLICE REFUSAL TO COMPLY WITH A POLICE OFFICER'S ORDER MAY NOT BE A CRIME UNDER THE LAW, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE A CRIMINAL AND IT CERTAINLY CANNOT BE USED AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR AN ELEVATED USE OF FORCE OR SHOW OF FORCE FOR A NONVIOLENT INCIDENT.
I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE AS A FUTURE ITEM, A REVIEW OF PETALUMA POLICE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES IN TERMS OF REFUSAL TO COMPLY WITH A POLICE OFFICER DURING A TRAFFIC STOP SO THAT THIS COMMITTEE MAY GIVE ADVICE AND COUNSEL ON HOW TO HAVE BETTER INTERACTIONS WITH THE MINORITY COMMUNITIES IN THE FUTURE.
UM, YEAH, I I WOULD SECOND THAT.
I MEAN, ACTUALLY I, AS I WAS JUST READING THE, UH, THE LIST OF, UH, PRIOR THINGS, I THOUGHT THAT, UH, ONE THING I'D LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT WHICH RELATES TO THAT IS, IS DEESCALATION AND, AND, UH, UH, USE OF FORCE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMITTEE COMMENTS?
[STAFF COMMENT]
OKAY.AT THIS TIME I WOULD LIKE TO CALL 'EM THE STAFF IF THERE ARE ANY STAFF COMMENTS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO ADD AT THIS TIME.
UH, JUST BRIEFLY, I KNOW WE'RE RUNNING OUTTA TIME AND I THINK WE'RE ALSO GOING TO SEE IF OUR, UM, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE AUDITORS ON TONIGHT TO PROVIDE A COMMENT.
I KNOW OUR PRIMARY PRINCIPAL AUDITOR MAY BE OUT OF THE COUNTRY AT THE MOMENT.
UM, I, I WOULD ECHO MICHAEL'S COMMENTS.
I THINK THAT'S A TIMELY CONTEMPORANEOUS, UH, THING.
WE ABSOLUTELY AT THE PETALUMA POLICE DEPARTMENT WERE WATCHING THAT INCIDENT AND THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THAT ARE SENSITIVE TO IT AS WELL.
UM, I THINK THAT COMPOUNDING AND BUILDING ON THAT, UH, THERE IS A LOT OF VOLATILITY AND DISCOURSE IN THE COMMUNITY AND THE NATION AT THE MOMENT, ESPECIALLY OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.
AND SO WE AT THE CITY AND AMONGST OUR DEPARTMENT ARE TALKING HEAVILY ABOUT CIVILITY.
AND I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, UH, IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS TO PRACTICE, UH, A HIGHER DEGREE OF PATIENCE AND UNDERSTANDING AND EMPATHY TOWARDS OTHER OTHERS AS WE TRY TO MODEL THAT STABILITY, UH, HERE AT, AT A MINIMUM LOCALLY.
UM, I THINK THAT WILL HELP SERVE US ALL WELL, UH, WE DID AS A POLICE DEPARTMENT RECENTLY, LAST WEEK ISSUE, OUR SECOND QUARTERLY DISTRICT NEWSLETTERS.
UM, YOU CAN ALSO FIND LINKS TO 'EM IN OUR SOCIAL MEDIA THAT'S ABOUT OUR DISTRICT POLICING MODEL AND THE EFFORTS THAT WE'VE BEEN DOING OVER THE LAST THREE MONTHS WITH TIMELY UPDATES.
AND THEN OUR COMMUNITY ACADEMY CLASS HAS BEEN CONTINUING TO MEET, UM, AND THEY ARE GOING TO GO THROUGH SCENARIO BASED TRAINING THIS COMING WEEKEND.
SO WE'RE EXCITED TO PROVIDE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO THEM.
I WOULD SECOND, UH, WITH THAT, WE ARE ADJOURNED AT 8:37 PM 7 37.
WITH THAT, WE ARE ADJOURNED AT 7:37 PM THANK YOU VERY MUCH.