[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:03]
ALL RIGHT, WE ARE BACK FOR 2025.
DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC TO PROVIDE COMMENT CARDS, SO WE CAN MOVE RIGHT ALONG FROM THAT.
UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, DAMES IS NOT HERE.
UH, SEEING NO PUBLIC, I AM GOING TO MOVE ON FROM PUBLIC COMMENT.
UM, DO WE HAVE ANY PRESENTATIONS TODAY? WE DO NOT.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, CORRECTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE MINUTES FROM THE DECEMBER 5TH MEETING? CAN I GET A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF DECEMBER 5TH MINUTES? I MOVE.WE APPROVE DECEMBER WHAT? FIFTH? FIFTH, YEAH.
ALL IN FAVOR? A A MINUTES ARE GRATEFULLY APPROVED, CLAUDIA, FROM OUR LAST MEETING, UM,
[PUBLIC HEARINGS AND MATTERS FOR CONSIDERATION]
AND, UH, PUBLIC HEARINGS THAT MATTER FOR CONSIDERATION.SO THIS IS WHERE WE'LL BE SPENDING MOST OF OUR TIME THIS EVENING.
UH, WE ARE REVIEWING, UH, SOME EDITS TO THE PETAL OF MUNICIPAL CODE TITLE 16, WHICH DEALS WITH THE AIRPORT.
UM, THANKS TO, UH, ADOBE, PDF BEING THE LOVELY PIECE OF SOFTWARE THAT IT IS, WE DO HAVE TWO VERSIONS OF THE DOCUMENT IN THE BACK OF OUR BINDERS THAT WERE INCLUDED WITH THE AGENDA ONLINE.
THE FIRST IS THE CURRENT VERSION, AS IS IN THE MUNICIPAL CODE TODAY, THE SECOND VERSION, WHICH HAS, UH, BLUE AND SOME RED TEXT IN IT.
UM, AND SOME GREEN, EXCUSE ME, RAINBOW HERE.
WE MADE USE OF OUR COLOR PRINT.
UM, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE CONSIDERING FOR MOVING FORWARD INTO THE NEXT STEP OF THE PROCESS.
UM, HAS SOME EDITS FROM COMMISSIONERS, HAS SOME EDITS FROM, UM, CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, HAS SOME EDITS FROM, UH, PREVIOUS, UH, REVISION WORK THAT WE'VE DONE ON THIS DOCUMENT AS WELL.
UM, I THINK WHAT WE'LL DO SINCE IT'S BEEN THE HOLIDAYS, AND I
UM, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND JUST GO THROUGH SECTION BY SECTION AND, UH, SEE IF ANYONE HAS ANY COMMENTS, UM, ON THE PROPOSED, UH, UPDATED VERSION, WHICH, INCLUDING THE EDITS HERE.
UM, AND IF WE DO, AND THEY'RE SIMPLE, WE CAN MAKE NOTE OF THOSE AND POTENTIALLY APPROVE THIS VERSION FOR ADVANCEMENT TO THE NEXT STEP WITH THOSE CORRECTIONS.
IF WE FIND SOMETHING MORE SUBSTANTIVE THAT WE WANT TO TAKE, TAKE BACK INTO OUR AD HOC COMMITTEE AND REWORK, UH, SUBSEQUENT TO THIS MEETING, WE CAN ABSOLUTELY DO THAT.
SO NO PRESSURE, BUT WE DO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS IF WE CAN, UM, IF WE'RE ALL COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
AND THEN I DID HEAR FROM, UH, JEFF EARLIER, UH, THAT HE IS COMFORTABLE WITH, UH, THE CHANGES THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED AS IS, SO WE CAN USE OUR DISCRETION FOR, FOR THINGS BEYOND THAT.
ANY, UH, QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, REQUESTS FOR MOVING INTO THAT PROCESS BEFORE I JUST PLOW AHEAD? WOW.
PLOWING IT IS, UM, ALL RIGHT, DEFINITIONS.
SO I AM SUGGESTING THAT WE ADD AN OFFICIAL, UM, SORT OF DISCLAIMER AS IT WERE TO THE BEGINNING OF THE DEFINITION SECTION THAT PREEMPTS ANYTHING THAT'S IN THIS DOCUMENT WITH THE OFFICIAL FEDERAL, UH, DEFINITIONS.
FAA DEFINITIONS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT IF WE DO END UP WITH THINGS OUT OF SYNC, THAT, UM, THE ACTUAL CODE OF PHOTO REGULATIONS TRUMPS THE CITY CODE.
UM, SO THAT'S THE FIRST, UH, A ADDITION UNDER 16 0 4 10.
UM, DOES ANYONE HAVE TELL YOU WHAT, GUYS? I'M JUST GONNA KEEP GOING.
IF
SO, 16 0 4 0 1 0 DEFINITIONS, WE'LL, WE'LL ASSUME THAT THAT ADDITION IS ACCEPTABLE UNLESS SOMEONE SAYS OTHERWISE.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO REMOVE MOST OF THE DEFINITION OF AERONAUTICAL ACTIVITY AS STATED.
UM, PER THE NOTE THAT I PROVIDED, THERE IS AN OPEN FAA DOCKET REVISING THIS
[00:05:01]
OFFICIAL DEFINITION RIGHT NOW.UM, AND THAT HAS BEEN THE TOPIC OF A LOT OF, UH, DEBATE AROUND THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THAT DEFINITION.
SO I'M SUGGESTING THAT WE JUST POINT TO THE FAA ORDER THAT DEALS WITH THE DEFINITION OF AERONAUTICAL ACTIVITIES, AND THEN THAT WAY WE WILL BE CURRENT TO WHEREVER THEY LAND WITH THAT IN THE FUTURE.
DO, THEN WE NEED TO STATE THOUGHT THAT THE DEFINITION IS BASED ON WHATEVER, A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC THAN OTHER, THAN LOOK AT THAT.
WELL, IF WE TRY TO COPY IN SOME OF THAT TEXT, IT VERY GA BASICALLY GUARANTEES THAT AS SOON AS THEY FINISH THAT PROCESS, IT'LL BE OUTTA DATE.
SO, I, I, I, YOU KNOW, I, I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO GO WITH IT.
I LEFT IN THAT FIRST LIKE, REALLY HIGH LEVEL SENTENCE THAT WAS HERE OF MEANS ANY ACTIVITY OR SERVICE THAT INVOLVES AND MAKES POSSIBLE IS REQUIRED FOR THE OPERATION TO AIRCRAFT.
THAT FIRST SENTENCE I SUGGESTED WE RETAIN, BUT THEN INSTEAD OF COPYING IN THE CURRENT DEFINITION FROM ORDER 51, 96 B, I SUGGESTED THAT WE POINT TO THE ORDER.
MAYBE, MAYBE SAY, SEE, SEE THAT ORDER OR ITS REVISIONS FOR LATEST DETAIL, SOMETHING ALONG THAT'S, YEAH.
THAT'S THE TOP OF THE SECOND PAGE.
IS THAT OKAY? DID WE, DID YOU FIND, ARE WE GOOD? NO, NO.
I'M JUST SAYING, IT JUST SAYS, SEE ORDER, AND THEN IT'S, AND IT'S REVISIONS.
I'M JUST, I I'M JUST WONDERING IF THIS SHOULDN'T SAY LIKE, PLEASE SEE FOR CURRENT STATUS REVISIONS.
NO, I'M NOT SAYING NO, NO, DON'T PUT IT.
I THINK IT'S PERFECT, BUT I THINK YOU'D BE REALLY EXPLICIT.
PLEASE SEE, FOR, YOU WANNA BE MORE POLITE THAN I WAS.
YOU WANNA SAY PLEASE,
WE CAN, WE CAN ADD A FEW MORE WORDS TO THAT IF YOU LIKE.
JUST, JUST SOMETHING TO SPECIFICALLY STATE THAT PLEASE SEE THIS FOR LATEST.
SO SEE ORDER OR ITS REVISIONS FOR CURRENT DEFINITION OF ANAU ACTIVITY.
I'M FINE WITH THAT BECAUSE THEN IT'S, THEN IT'S, THEN WE'RE SAYING, THIS IS WHERE WE WANT YOU TO LOOK, AND THIS IS ALL RIGHT, NO MATTER WHAT THE DATE IS.
SORRY, I WASN'T QUITE UNDERSTANDING WHERE YOU WERE GETTING AT.
UM, ARE WE GOOD WITH THAT? ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION? OKAY.
UM, IN SUBPARAGRAPH E OF THE DEFINITIONS, UH, AIRPORT COMMISSION, UM, I'M SUGGESTING THAT WE POINT TO THE PETALUMA CITY CODE DEFINITION OF THE AIRPORT COMMISSION, WHICH TOOK ME AN EMBARRASSINGLY LONG TIME TO FIND
SO HAVING THE REFERENCE SEEMED LIKE A GOOD IDEA.
UM, AND I DID USE MORE WORDS THIS TIME,
UM, I AM SUGGESTING THAT WE SPELL HANGAR CORRECTLY IN SUBPARAGRAPH H.
UM, I AM SUGGESTING AN ADDITION.
AND WHEN I'M SAYING I HERE, A LOT OF THESE ARE, SOME OF THIS IS JUST ME, AND SOME OF THIS IS THE AD HOC COMMITTEE, BUT, UM, I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE IT ALL CAME FROM.
THE TRANSIENT AIRCRAFT, UH, DEFINITION IS SUGGESTED TO BE ADDED.
UM, IT'S USED IN THE DOCUMENT, BUT IT WASN'T DEFINED.
SO SUGGESTING WE ADD A TRANSIENT AIRCRAFT DEFINITION, UM, UAS, UH, WAS DEFINED.
UM, I'M SUGGESTING THAT WE UPDATE THE DEFINITION FOR UAS TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC LAW AND BROADER USAGE WITHIN THE INDUSTRY.
UM, RETAINING THE REFERENCE TO DRONES FOR SMALLER UAS, BUT ACKNOWLEDGING THAT UNMANNED AIRCRAFT CAN REALLY BE ANY AIRCRAFT.
IS THERE LIKE A, IS THERE A DOCUMENT LIKE WE POINTED TO ON THE FIRST ONE WITH THE DEFINITIONS THAT REALLY DEFINES THAT, THAT WE CAN YEAH, THAT'S THAT PUBLIC LAW 1, 1 12 9 5 SECTION 3, 3 1 8.
IT'S LITTLE AND THERE'S A LOT BETTER TO ASK THAN THAT.
UM, VEHICLE, UH, I'M SUGGESTING WE MAKE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE DOT DEFINITION OF VEHICLE AND REFERENCING THE 49 CFR REFERENCE WHERE THAT'S DEFINED IN WHAT IS BECOMING A SUB SUBPARAGRAPH X.
UH, SO DEFINITIONS, WE HAVE ONE MODIFICATION THAT I'VE NOTED AND WE'LL MAKE IN THE COPY THAT I PROVIDE TO CLAUDIA.
UM, SECTION 16 0 4 0 2, COMPLIANCE WITH TITLE 14 OF THE CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS.
[00:10:01]
UM, SUGGESTED ADDITION IS SUBPARAGRAPH D AT THE END, UM, JUST SORT OF FORMALLY AND EXPLICITLY SAYING THAT THE FAA WINS, SHOULD THERE BE ANY CONFLICT BETWEEN WHAT IS IN THIS DOCUMENT AND WHAT IS AN FAA REQUIREMENT? HOPEFULLY THAT WOULD BE OBVIOUS, BUT I FEEL LIKE HAVING IT CALLED OUT FOR CLARITY IS IMPORTANT.UM, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE NEXT ONE.
UM, YOU ADDED AND AIR CODE COMMISSION THAT, IS THERE A PLACE IN THE FOLLOWING, UH, PARAGRAPHS? A THROUGH D OR THE, OH, THERE IT IS.
SO IT WASN'T THERE ORIGINALLY.
UM, BUT IT ALSO WASN'T THERE, THERE WERE PLACES IN, IN TITLE 16 WHERE THE AIRPORT COMMISSION WAS MENTIONED AS HAVING SOMETHING WOULD BE REPORTED TO THEM, OR THEY'D GET, RECEIVE AN APPEAL, BUT THERE WASN'T AN OFFICIAL, LIKE, YEAH, THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE.
AND IT TOOK ME, LIKE I SAID, IT TOOK ME AN EMBARRASSINGLY LONG TIME TO FIND
SO I JUST, AGAIN, FOR, FOR CLARITY, UM, WHY ARE WE HERE? UH, I'M ALSO SUGGESTING OH, COOL.
UM, I'M ALSO SUGGESTING THAT, UH, OTHER PLACES IN THE DOCUMENT, WHICH WE'LL, WE'LL GET TO, UM, IT SPEAKS TO THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THE COMMISSION.
UM, AND THERE'S NOT, THERE'S NOT, UM,
I WAS JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE WERE CONSISTENT THERE.
SO ANYWAY, BUT IF WE REFERENCE 2 60 0 5 OH, ALL OF THOSE POTENTIAL QUESTIONS GET CONSOLIDATED INTO THAT LOCATION, AND WE DON'T HAVE TO ADDRESS THEM HERE.
UM, SO, SO NANCY, ARE YOU, UM, HAPPY WITH, WITH THE ADDITION OF D TO YES, I'M OKAY.
UM, SO 16 0 4, 0 4 0 COMPLIANCE WITH APPLICABLE RULES AND LAWS.
UM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY WHERE, UH, THERE WAS A DESIRE TO REMOVE, UH, THE REQUIREMENTS EXPLICITLY ASKING FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE HAD READ TITLE 16.
UM, BUT INSTEAD JUST CLARIFYING THAT ALL PERSONS USING THE AIRPORT INCLUDES TRANSIENT AND STUDENT PILOTS.
UM, AND, AND HOWEVER THEY NEED TO GET THAT FAMILIARITY THAT PLACES THE RESPONSIBILITY WITH THE APPROPRIATE PARTIES AS OPPOSED TO, UH, HAVING THE FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS BE ON THE HOOK FOR THAT EXPLICITLY IN THE DOCUMENT.
I THINK IT RETAINS THE SAME SAFETY INTENT, BUT ADDRESSES SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WE HEARD LAST TIME.
I, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION IN TERMS OF, OF, IT'S, IT'S, YOU IDENTIFY STUDENTS AND ANYONE, IS IT ANYONE USING THE AIRPORT? YEAH.
IT SAYS ALL PERSONS USING THE AIRPORT.
AND IT SAYS INCLUDING, SO THAT'S NOT AN EXHAUSTIVE LIFT.
I JUST THINK IT'S INTERESTING WE CALL OUT, INCLUDING TRANSIENT AND STUDENT PILOTS.
WELL, I WOULD BE, I WOULD BE FINE DELETING THAT OR NOT, NOT ADDING THAT.
UM, THE THOUGHT PROCESS WAS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE SOME PUSHBACK ON TRYING TO REMOVE SUBPARAGRAPH B.
WHICH EXPLICITLY POINTS TO STUDENT PILOTS.
AND THAT BY EXPLAN, YOU KNOW, EXPOUNDING UPON WHAT WE MEAN BY ALL PERSONS, AND THAT ALL PERSONS INCLUDE STUDENT PILOTS IN PARAGRAPH A MIGHT MAKE IT MORE PALATABLE FOR THE POWERS THAT B TO BE WILLING TO TAKE OUT.
I IT'S NOT, I DON'T THINK IT'S LEGALLY NECESSARY.
I DON'T THINK IT ADDS OR TAKES AWAY ANYTHING FROM THAT PARAGRAPH.
IF, IF YOU FEEL, THEN THAT'S THE WAY TO ADDRESS AND REMOVE THAT OTHER PARAGRAPH, THEN, THEN I'M, I DON'T HAVE A, WE COULD TRY IT WITHOUT THAT ADDITION.
WE COULD TRY JUST PROPOSING THE DELETION OF PARAGRAPH BI WOULD BE THAT'S, THAT'S FINE.
I MEAN, I THINK, I THINK THIS PHRASE OF INCLUDING TRANSIENT STUDENT PILOTS IS WIND ADDRESSING, FRANKLY MM-HMM
UM, SO WE, WE COULD TRY IT WITHOUT THAT.
AND THEN IF WE GET PUSHBACK FROM THE CITY, WE COULD SUGGEST THAT BE REIN, YOU KNOW, BE INCLUDED.
I GUESS I JUST, I, THE, MY ONLY, I GUESS THE CONCERN I HAVE IS, IS THAT IF WE START CALLING OUT TRANSIENT STUDENT PILOTS AND I'LL, ARE WE GONNA HAVE TO START CALLING? I MEAN, BUT I, TO ME, THAT, THAT IF YOU'RE ANYONE WHO USES THE AIRPORT, THAT ALREADY IMPLIES THAT STUDENT PILOTS AND TRANSIENT PILOTS, THOSE ARE USING AS WELL AS PILOTS BASED THERE, BUT OF THAT, THAT'S ALL WHO ARE USING THE AIRPORT.
YEAH, NO, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
[00:15:01]
WOULD, I JUST, IT JUST WONDER, JUST DRAWS YOUR ATTENTION.WHY ARE WE SPECIFICALLY LOOKING AT THEM? RIGHT? YEAH.
AND, AND ONCE B HAS BEEN DELETED, IT WILL BE PERHAPS CONFUSING AS TO WHY THOSE FOLKS ARE CALLED OUT.
UM, SO IF, IF WE WOULD LIKE TO SUBMIT THAT WITHOUT THAT ADDITION, I'M HAPPY TO, I, I'M, I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE DOING IT.
'CAUSE IS IT THAT WAS JUST, THAT'S THE ONLY CONCERN I HAVE.
I MEAN, IF YOU THINK IT CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH IT, THEN OKAY.
WHAT DO, DO OTHER FOLKS HAVE A, HAVE A PREFERENCE FOR HOW WE'D LIKE THIS TO BE? ULTIMATELY, WOULD WE PREFER TO NOT HAVE THAT SUGGESTED EDITION AND JUST TAKE OUT B MY PREFERENCE IS TO IS TO REMOVE IT, MOVE TO WONDER.
DOES THE FAA REQUIRE THAT PILOTS KNOW THE CITY CODES WHEN THEY'RE FLYING AND
AND I, I BELIEVE THAT THERE'S SOMEWHERE IN HERE THAT WE'VE SUGGESTED ADDING THAT THERE'S A RESPONSIBILITY THAT ANYTHING IN HERE THAT PEOPLE REALLY NEED TO KNOW, NEEDS TO BE IN THE AIRPORT, INFORMATION THAT GETS PUBLISHED.
UM, IS, IS THAT, IS THAT KIND OF, IS THAT STATEMENT TYPICAL OF OTHER AIRPORTS? YOU KNOW, IS THERE, THERE'S A, IS THERE A BROAD REACHING STATEMENT LIKE THAT? I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULD REMOVE IT OR THAT I WAS JUST, THAT'S A QUESTION.
AND IT'S LIKE, I CAN'T SAY THAT I'VE READ A BUNCH OF AIRPORTS.
I THINK THE
UM, SO I THINK THAT, I DON'T THINK THAT'S UNPRECEDENTED.
NO, I I THINK IT COULD BE VERY CHALLENGING TO ENFORCE
AND WHETHER YOU CHOOSE TO UNDERSTAND THEM OR NOT, YOU KNOW, THAT BRINGS, THAT BRINGS UP AN IMPORTANT POINT, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THE OPERATOR OF A UAS, LET'S SAY THEY'RE IN A REMOTE, YOU KNOW, FACILITY AND IT'S A, YOU KNOW, REASONABLY SIZED UAS, YOU KNOW, LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, CS OR SOMETHING.
ARE THEY CONSIDERED A PILOT? ARE THEY DEFINED AS A PILOT? IF THEY'RE IN COMMAND OF THE AIRCRAFT, YES, THEY'RE, BUT OKAY.
SO EVEN IF THEY WEREN'T, THEY WOULD BE COVERED.
I JUST WONDER HOW ENFORCEABLE IS IT? I DON'T THINK IT'S VERY ENFORCEABLE AT ALL, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S OUR PERSONAL PROBLEM.
WELL, I, I MEAN, I, I THINK TAKING, I, I FEEL STRONGLY THAT WE SHOULD TAKE OUT THE SUBPARAGRAPH B YES, I AGREE WITH THAT.
UM, I THINK HAVING SUBPARAGRAPH A, YOU KNOW, KIND OF REINFORCING THAT YOU ARE IN A LOCAL JURISDICTION THAT HAS A CITY CODE.
I, I DON'T, I, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S PLENTY.
SO WE'LL, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH THE DELETION OF B AND NOT THE ADDITION OF THAT, INCLUDING TRANSIENT AND STUDENT PILOT'S PHRASE.
AND IF WE GET PUSHBACK AND CONCERN THAT THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE, THEN WE CAN REVISIT THAT MAKES SENSE.
UM, THERE WERE NO SUGGESTED CHANGES ON 16 0 4, 0 5 0 0 6 0, OR 7 0 8 0 OR, OR NINE ZERO, JUST A NUMBERING THAT AT THE, UM, 16 0 4 100, UH, THE, I THINK NANCY, YOU CAUGHT THIS.
SO IT SHOULD BE ASSUMPTION OF LIABILITY FOR AIRPORT USE, NOT A DUPLICATION OF THE ANIMALS.
I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS CLEANER TO JUST SAY NO COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES INSTEAD OF NO COMMERCIAL BUSINESS.
I DIDN'T, COMMERCIAL BUSINESS JUST FELT ODD.
UM, ESPECIALLY SINCE COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY IS WHAT'S DEFINED IN K IN THE DEFINITIONS PARAGRAPH UPFRONT.
SO THAT MAKES IT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT'S HERE AND ALSO SOUNDS BETTER.
IF I COULD JUST, UH, JUST REAL QUICK.
UM, SO THERE ARE COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES THAT HAPPEN, UH, THAT ARE PROTECTED BY THE FAA.
UM, SO, UM, WE DON'T REQUIRE A PERMIT OR CONTRACT, UH, CONTRACT FOR THOSE.
SO SAY AN OPERATOR IS DOING A 1 35 CHARTER, UM, THAT'S, THAT IS COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY, BUT IT'S
[00:20:01]
NOT A COMMERCIAL BUSINESS ON THE FIELD.I THINK THAT WAS THE DISTINCTION THAT WAS OH.
SO I, SO MAYBE WE NEED A DEFINITION OF COMMERCIAL BUSINESS THEN
OR WHAT IF WE ADD IN THERE A, UH, KEEP YOUR ACTIVITIES 'CAUSE I THINK I LIKE THE ACTIVITIES, BUT UNLESS PROTECTED SOME SORT OF STATEMENT UNLESS PROTECTED, BUT UNLESS THE ACTIVITIES PROTECTED BY THE FAA, WHATEVER THE CORRECT WORDING IS, UNLESS PROTECTED BY THE FAA ARE THAT WAY, THEN THOSE ARE SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT.
AND IF THEY'RE PROTECTED BY THE FAA, WE'VE STATED, THEN THEY'RE NOT, THAT MIGHT BE THE, THE EASIER WAY THAN START DEFINING AND OKAY.
SO WE COULD SAY UNLESS EXPLICITLY OTHERWISE ALLOWED BY FA, A REGULATION ALLOWED AND PROTECTED, WHATEVER THE TERMINOLOGY.
THAT SOUNDS REALLY GOOD, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT IT, WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE TOO VAGUE OR, OR PEOPLE USES LOOPHOLES.
SO, BUT I LIKE THAT YOU, I THINK THE INTENT OF THIS WAS, UM, BUSINESS AVIATION BUSINESSES OPERATE ON THE FIELD, CONDUCTING BUSINESS WITH A CLIENT, BASICALLY USING THE AIRPORT AS A BASE FOR THEIR BUSINESS OPERATIONS.
UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO ADD TO THIS TO HELP DEFINE THAT, BUT, UM, IT'S ESSENTIALLY, UH, A TRANSIENT OPERATOR WOULD NOT APPLY.
SO IF A 1 35 OR A BALLOON OPERATOR DECIDED TO TAKE OFF AND LAND, I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S NOT MUCH WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, BUTTING THE BUSINESS ASPECT OF THAT.
BUT IF THEY ARE ADVERTISING THAT, THAT IS THEIR BASE, THEY'RE DOING BUSINESS, THIS IS AN ON ON AIRPORT BUSINESS.
OH, THEY'RE DOING LIKE A DROP SHIP OPERATION OUTTA THEIR HANGAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YEAH.
ANY, ANYTHING TO DO WITH A FLIGHT OP AUTOMATICALLY IS EXEMPT.
HOW ABOUT IF WE ADD AS, AS HAS BEEN, UH, DEFINED TO US? SO, OH, SORRY, GO AHEAD.
YEAH, LET, HOW ABOUT IF WE JUST ADD THE WORD? NO.
UH, AIRPORT BASED COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY SHALL BE CONDUCTED ON THE AIRPORT.
UM, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S THE DEFINITION AIRPORT BASED.
WAS THE DELINEATION BETWEEN, IS IT JUST BASED AIRPORT DOES OR, BECAUSE I, I THINK WHAT I WROTE DOWN FROM YOUR COMMENT WAS TO HAVE IT READ NO COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES UNLESS EXPLICITLY ALLOWED BY FAA REQUIREMENTS SHALL BE CONDUCTED ON THE AIRPORT WITHOUT THE OPERATOR.
SO IT'S MORE, MUCH MORE BROADER.
AND THEN WE JUST ENCOMPASSING.
SO IF IT'S NOT A PROTECTED ACTIVITY, THEN IT AUTOMATICALLY, THIS IMPLIES, SO SOME OF THOSE EXAMPLES THAT DAN WAS GIVING BECAUSE THEY'RE PROTECTED ACTIVITY ACTIVITIES, BECAUSE WE'VE CALLED THEM OUT SPECIFICALLY THAT THEY'RE EXEMPT MM-HMM
UH, AND, AND WE CAN SAY, OKAY, HOWEVER YOU WANNA WORD THAT THEN TO ME THAT THAT, THAT, THAT ALLOWS US TO HAVE THE STATEMENT.
AND THEN IF YOU'RE NOT A PROTECTED, YOU HAVE TO, ARE THERE, ARE THERE ANY PROTECTED ACTIVITIES THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A AIRPORT BASED COMMERCIAL BUSINESS LIKE
I THINK WHAT THIS IS TRYING TO ADDRESS IS THE NON FLYING ASPECT OF IT.
SO WHEN WE SAY ACTIVITIES, UM, YEAH.
IS THAT BROADEN IT TOO? WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT MIGHT BE GOOD IS KICK IT TO THE CITY ATTORNEY AND SAY, HEY, DO YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDED MAYBE, UM, MODIFICATION IS THAT REALLY HELPS DEFINE THIS AS THE NOT FAA PROTECTED FLYING ASPECT.
BUSINESSES THAT WE DON'T, WE DON'T REGULATE WOULD ONLY BE LAND-BASED PEOPLE COMING IN FROM STREET SIDE TO DO BUSINESS ON THE AIRPORT KIND OF THING.
UM, THEY MIGHT BE, HAVE A BETTER DEFINITION FOR YOU THAT YOU MIGHT LIKE.
I CAN, I CAN OFFER THAT AS A, YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.
UM, I'M GONNA ASK, OKAY, SO HOW ABOUT AS A PATH FORWARD, WE ADD THAT PHRASING OF UNLESS EXPLICITLY PROTECTED OR ALLOWED BY FA REQUIREMENTS, AND THEN MAKE A NOTE WHEN WE PASS IT ON SAYING THAT THIS IS OUR INTENTION AND COULD YOU PLEASE DOUBLE? LIKE, IS THERE'S A BETTER WAY OF SAYING THIS? PLEASE SUGGEST IT.
UH, THE TITLE HAD BEEN, HAS, UH, HAS BEEN CHANGED FROM CONTRACT PERMIT REQUIRED, WHICH WAS A DUPLICATION TO REPORTING OF ACCIDENTS, WHICH IS, UH, CORRECT.
UM, AND THIS SUGGESTED ADDITION IS TO POINT TO THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NTSB AND FAA REPORTING REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU MAY HAVE TO FOLLOW HERE AS WELL, NOT JUST, UH, TELL DAN
[00:25:02]
UM, AND TO KIND OF PULL THAT UP INTO THE, THE BEGINNING OF THE, UH, OF THE PARAGRAPH WHILE RETAINING THE REFERENCE TO THE CFR.UM, 16 0 4, 1 40 FIREARMS AT THE AIRPORT.
UM, ADDING A REFERENCE TO ANOTHER SECTION OF THE CITY CODE THAT IS RELEVANT.
JUST TRYING TO PULL IT ALL TOGETHER HERE.
UM, NO CHANGE IN OH 4, 1 50, 0 4, 1 60 IN OH 4 1 70.
UH, AGAIN, IT'S JUST ADDING A REFERENCE TO ANOTHER PORTION OF THE PEDAL AND THE CODE, UM, NO CHANGE IN OH 4 180 0 4 1 9, UH, EXCEPT FOR OH 4, 1 90 IS REALLY LONG.
SO IF WE GO DOWN TO THE VERY END, UH, I, SO PARAGRAPH I HAS, UM, AN ADDITION OF PUTTING A TIME LIMIT ON THE HEARING IF THERE IS AN APPEAL FILE TO WITHIN FIVE BUSINESS DATES.
'CAUSE I WAS REALLY READING IT THROUGH, AND ONE OF THEM, THEY RELATE TO THE AIRPORT COMMISSION THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE WITHIN X NUMBER OF DAYS, AND AS WE MEET ONCE A MONTH, THEN WOULD THAT HAVE TO BE THEN CALLED AS A SPECIAL MEETING OF THE COMMISSION? SO MY, MY READ FOR THAT WAS ACTUALLY THAT IT IS THE CITY MANAGER OR THEIR DESIGNATED HEARING OFFICER THAT CONDUCTS THE APPEAL HEARING.
I, I DON'T KNOW IF THE INTENTION IS THAT WE CONVENE THIS BODY OR NOT FOR THAT.
WELL, BUT I THOUGHT, I MEAN, I SENSE THAT WE WOULD, RIGHT.
'CAUSE IT WAS THEIR DECISION ORIGINALLY, BUT I'M NOT.
BECAUSE I THOUGHT PART OF THIS WAS TO YEAH, PROVIDE THAT THE COMMISSION, THE AIRPORT COMMISSION BE, UH, THE ADJUDICATOR, THE HERO OF THE DISCREPANCIES, THE COMPLAINTS, WHATEVER, UH, THAT, THAT WE WOULD BE THE PRIMARY ONE.
IT'S DIFFERENT FOR THE EVENTS.
UH, SO THIS SECTION, UH, OH 4 1 90 SPECIAL EVENTS PERMIT AND THE FOLLOWING SECTION, UH, OH FOUR 200 FOR ASURE EXHIBITIONS AND OTHER SPECIAL EVENTS.
AND THE APPEALS PROCESS IS DIFFERENT.
UH, FOR THE ONE 90, UM, THE APPEAL IS SUPPOSED TO BE FILED WITH THE CITY CLERK, AND IT SAYS THAT THE CITY, THE AIRPORT MANAGER, HEARS THEIR APPEAL FOR THE AIR SHOW ONE, UM, IT'S APPEALED, UH, TO THE COMMISSION.
THE LANGUAGE THAT'S ADDED HERE IS, I'M MISREMEMBERING THAT.
UM, I THINK THIS ONE WAS SILENT ON, UM, WHO, HOW THE APPEAL WAS HANDLED.
ORIGINALLY, THE AIR SHOWS ONE WAS SILENT ON THAT, AND THE LANGUAGE IS BEING ADDED AS A CO THE SUGGESTED EDITION IS BASICALLY A COPY FROM THE PRIOR ONE MM-HMM.
TO MAKE THEM, IF I CAN CLARIFY THAT.
SO THINGS HAVE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS AND WHERE IT IS NOW IS, UM, ALL PERMITS FOR SPECIAL EVENTS ARE NO LONGER, UM, THE CITY MAN OR THE CITY, THE CITY MANAGER AND THE CITY, UM, UH, AIRPORT MANAGER.
REALLY NOT PART OF THAT PROCESS PER SE AS FAR AS THE APPROVAL.
APPROVAL COMES FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THAT, THAT, UH, TAKES ALL OF THOSE PERMITS.
SO FOR INSTANCE, UH, THE DISPLAY DAYS GOES TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, UH, THE PERMIT, UH, OFFICE EVENT PERMIT, AND THEN IT GOES THROUGH, AND OBVIOUSLY THEY CONSULT WITH ALL THE ENTITIES, INCLUDING THE, UH, THE AIRPORT MANAGER.
HOWEVER, THE AIRPORT MANAGER DOESN'T APPROVE OR DENY THOSE.
SO THAT'S, THAT MAYBE A CHANGE THAT HAPPENED OVER TIME, AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF WHY IT'S DIFFERENT THERE INSTEAD OF THE ORIGINAL VERSION.
I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE ORIGINAL, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THE WAY IT'S SET UP CURRENTLY.
SO THEN THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO INSIST ON A RETURN TO THE CODE AS WRITTEN, OR DO WE WANT TO ADJUST THE CODE TO REFLECT A PROCEDURE THAT WE'RE HAPPY WITH? BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT MENTIONED IN HERE AT ALL UNLESS THEY'RE THE OFFICIALLY THE DESIGNATED HEARING AGENT.
WELL, IS IS, BUT I GUESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE APPEAL PROCESS.
WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE EVEN THE APPROVAL PROCESS IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S
SO FOR MOST THINGS YOU WOULD GO THROUGH THIS, THE AIRPORT MANAGER SLASH CITY MANAGER,
[00:30:01]
UM, FOR SAY LIKE A, UM, MAINTENANCE PERMIT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.UM, EVENTS ARE SUCH A, IT'S A COMPLETELY SEPARATE PROCESS.
SO YOU WOULDN'T APPEAL TO THE AIRPORT MANAGER BECAUSE THE MANAGER CAN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING.
UM, IT WOULD BE TO THE PERMIT, UM, OFFICE ITSELF.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT'S SAYING HERE IS, UM, NOW THAT THE AIRPORT MANAGER COULD REVOKE OR SUSPEND SOMETHING IF THERE WAS A MAJOR ISSUE, BUT TYPICALLY THAT WOULD ALL GO THROUGH THE ENTITY THAT GIVES OUT THAT PERMIT.
PERSONALLY SERVED OR SERVED BY THE MAIL FROM THE PER PERMIT.
UM, YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
I THINK THE, THE OTHER, I MEAN IS THE IF, IS THERE, PART OF IT IS, IS IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN POINT, LIKE WE'VE DONE ANOTHER SEAT FOR PERMIT APPLICATION, THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER FOR THE ACTUAL PROCESS POINT TO A SPECIFIC YEAH, WE CITED IN THE PETALUMA CITY CODE, THIS TITLE 13, CHAPTER 13.32 OF THE CITY CODE IS REFERENCED THROUGHOUT.
UM, AND DOES THAT SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT THE, I DON'T RECALL.
UM, SO MAYBE THAT'S, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DIG IN, BUT IF, BUT IF IT SPECIFICALLY STATES WITH A, A, A, A PROCESS, MAYBE THAT'S, THAT'S TO GET A PERMIT APPLICATION.
MAYBE THAT'S THE QUICK AND EASY WAY TO THEN PLEASE SEE
BUT THE BIGGER QUESTION BECOMES, I GUESS IF WE'RE TRYING TO GIVE A APPEAL PROCESS AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ARE THE ONES APPROVING THE PERMITS, HOW MUCH AUTHORITY ARE WE GONNA REALLY HAVE TO, IF IT'S APPEALED TO THE AIRPORT COMMISSION TO ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OR, YOU KNOW, INFLUENCE, I MEAN, WE CAN ASK THE CHIEF OF POLICE TO COME AND YEAH.
SO IF I COULD, UM, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
I THINK THE ANSWER IS THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE THE COUNCIL LIAISON.
SO IF EVERYTHING HAS GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS, EVERYONE HAS SAID SAY NO OR REV REVOKE SOME SORT OF PERMIT.
UM, THE AIRPORT COMMISSION IS A GREAT, UM, BACKSTOP TO THAT BECAUSE THEN IF THERE ARE ISSUES THAT WEREN'T ADDRESSED AND MAYBE WE WEREN'T HEARD DURING THAT PROCESS, THE AIRPORT COMMISSION CAN HEAR THOSE.
THE COUNCIL LIAISON THAT WILL BE SITTING MOST MEETINGS ON THE COMMISSION CAN BRING THAT BEFORE COUNCIL, AND THEY OFTEN DO.
SO I WOULD SAY THAT THAT IS THE SYSTEM THAT THERE, I THINK THAT THIS IS TRYING TO DO, WHICH IS, IF IT'S GONE THROUGH EVERYTHING AND IT HADN'T WORKED, THE AIRPORT COMMISSION MAY BE ABLE TO GIVE IT ONE MORE LOOK WITH COUNCIL TALKING TO THE CITY MANAGER, AND POSSIBLY THERE'S, THERE'S SOMETHING WAS MISSED.
SO I LOVE THAT INTENT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT'S WRITTEN DOWN.
YEAH, WELL THAT, AND, AND I WAS GONNA SAY THAT THAT'S THEN YEAH, THAT NEEDS TO BE DEFINED, BUT THAT'S, YEAH.
BECAUSE I, I, THAT'S WHAT I THINK THE, YOU SUMMARIZED IT REAL WELL, IF YOU CAN WRITE THAT DOWN REALLY QUICK.
SO THE ONLY CHANGE IN I WAS THE WORD FIVE FOR FIVE BUSINESS DAYS.
I KNOW THE FIVE OR SEVEN, BUT I'M JUST THINKING YEAH, BUT THE PERMIT'S NOT DENIED.
SO DEE TALKS ABOUT DENYING OH, OH, THE APPLICATION IS DENIED.
BUT THAT, THAT, AGAIN, THAT GIVES, UM, THE AIRPORT MANAGER THE DETERMINATION OF, UH, ISSUING OR DENYING THE PERMIT WITHIN FIVE DIS BUSINESS DAYS OF RECEIPT OF INCLUDED APPLICATION.
UM, AND IS THAT, AND DAN SAYING THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY HIM GOOD? IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
IT IT, IT, IT DOES DEPEND ON WHAT IT IS.
I I WOULDN'T SAY THAT I, YOU KNOW, AND WHEN IT SAYS, AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, WHEN IT SAYS AIRPORT MANAGER, THAT IS THE CITY MANAGER.
OR THEIR DESIGNEE, AND I'M CURRENTLY THE DESIGNEE, BUT IT COULD BE THIS, THE CITY MANAGER.
UM, I WILL MAKE NOTE THAT IN BOTH SECTIONS, UH, OF THESE SIMILAR SECTIONS, THERE IS A SPOT FOR THE AIRPORT COMMISSION, UM, AS, LIKE I SAID, THE BACKSTOP, IT IS THERE.
AN I IT IS THERE, IT'S KIND OF HIDDEN.
THE PERMIT APPLICANT MAY APPEAL A PERMIT TO THE AIRPORT COMMISSION WAS SEVEN DAYS OF THE DATE.
BUT THEN IT DOESN'T, UM, THEN WHERE IT FALLS APART IS IT DOESN'T THEN SAY THAT WE HAVE TO MEET TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT, BECAUSE THEN THE ACTION OF THAT APPEAL FALLS ON THE MANAGER.
YOU, YOU SAID THAT IT DOESN'T SAY THAT YOU HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.
YEAH, IT SAYS THE PERMIT APPLICANT MAY APPEAL A PERMIT DENIAL OR REVOCATION OR CONDITION TO THE AIRPORT COMMISSION WITHIN SEVEN DAYS.
AND THEN THE APPEAL SHALL BE FILED WITH THE CITY CLERK.
[00:35:01]
AND THEN IT SAYS, BUT THEN IT DOESN'T SAY THAT THE COMMISSION ACTUALLY HAS TO MEET TO HEAR THE APPEAL.IT LIKE, EVERYTHING THAT TAUGHT IN THE REST OF THAT PARAGRAPH IS BETWEEN THE MANAGER AND THE CITY CLERK.
AND THAT WAS, AND THE APPEAL IS HEARD BEFORE THE CITY MANAGER, I THINK.
SO LIKE, IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T SPECIFY THEN THAT WE HAVE TO MEET AS A BODY, WHICH AS YOU COULD IMAGINE, UM, IT HAS TO BE SERVED TO YOU.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF THE REQUIREMENT, IS YOU HAVE TO BE SERVED WITH THAT INFORMATION, SO FILED WITH YOU.
UM, IF IT'S FILED, IT WILL BE PRESENTED TO YOU BY THE CLERK.
BUT WE HAVE TO, I THINK THE, THE DECISION FOR THE COMMISSION IS WHETHER TO HEAR IT OR NOT.
YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO, YOU'RE JUST REQUIRED TO RECEIVE IT, BUT YOU MAY NOT MAKE IT A, SO THEN THERE SHOULD BE LANGUAGE EITHER HERE OR IN SECTION, UM, 2, 2 60, THAT SPEAKS TO WHAT WE DO WITH THAT APPEAL.
IT MIGHT BE IN SECTION TWO TWO.
WOULD IT NOT BE PRUDENT TO LEAVE THAT OPEN TO YOUR DISCRETION BASED ON THE, THE, THE ITEM? WELL, BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO CLEARLY STATE THAT THE, THEN IT SHOULD BE STATED THAT IT'S THE COMMISSION'S DISCRETION, RIGHT? LIKE SOMETHING IT SHOULDN'T JUST STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.
WE THE COMMISSION AT THE COMMISSION'S DISCRETION, THIS MAY THE YEAH.
DISCRETION THAT MAY BE PRESENTED BEFORE THE ENTIRE COMMISSION AS PART OF THE APPEAL PROCESS.
BUT I THINK IT ALSO NEEDS TO DEFINE THE TIMELINE ON WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS, YOU KNOW, IS THIS GONNA BE, UH, ON A MONTHLY, ON OUR MONTHLY AGENDA AS AN ITEM ADDED, OR ARE WE GOING TO GET TOGETHER AS, AS A SPECIAL COMMISSION TO, TO HEAR IT IF DUE, DUE TO TIME CONSTRAINTS? 'CAUSE IF IT SAYS WITHIN SEVEN DAYS, AND GOTCHA.
SO JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A DEFINITION OF WHAT THE OPTIONS FOR THE COMMISSION, UH, IS AS FAR AS WHETHER TO HEAR OR NOT HEAR OR HAVING THAT DECISION? WELL, I THINK YOU, WHAT YOU SAID YOUR, THE COMMISSION'S DISCRETION.
ULTIMATELY, IT'S, IT'S GOING TO BE THE LIAISON THAT'S, THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO, TO TAKE IT TO COUNCIL, WHETHER OR NOT THE AIRPORT COMMISSION IS INTERESTED IN IT, IT WILL BE SERVED TO THAT STANDING MEMBER WHO CAN TAKE IT TO COUNSEL AT THEIR PREROGATIVE.
THAT'S JUST KIND OF UNWRITTEN, THE NATURE OF, OF THE PROCESS.
BUT, UM, YEAH, I CAN ASK THE STATE ATTORNEY IF HE MAYBE SOME MORE CLARIFICATION ON THE OPTIONS THERE.
IS THAT, SO YEAH, TWO 60 DOES NOT, UH, DOES NOT SEEM TO EXPLICITLY CALL IT WHAT WE DO WITH THAT APPEAL.
1332 IS THE SECTION THAT'S REFERENCED AT THE BEGINNING OF THESE SECTIONS.
IT SAYS, NOT NOTWITHSTANDING THE PROVISIONS OF 1332.
THAT IS THE PROCESS FOR THAT IS DEALING WITH PARADES AND OTHER SPECIAL EVENTS ON CITY STREET SIDEWALKS AND OTHER CITY PROPERTY, WHICH WOULD, UH, AND THEN THERE'S A SECTION ON PERMITTING THERE.
UM, SO TITLE 16 IS AMPLIFYING WHAT REQUIRES A PERMIT BASED ON WHAT'S IN 1332.
SO MORE THINGS REQUIRE PERMITS ON THE AIRPORT THAN THEY DO ELSEWHERE, WHICH MAKES SENSE.
ACTION OF APPLICATION GROUNDS FOR DENIAL PERMIT CONDITIONS.
THERE'S AN APPEAL PROCEDURE, UH, IN 1332 THAT, UH, SAYS IF THERE IS INSUFFICIENT TIME FOR A TIMELY APPEAL TO BE HEARD BY THE CITY COUNCIL PRIOR TO THE DATE ON WHICH THE EVENT IS SCHEDULED, THE APPLICANT MAY AT THEIR OPTION REQUEST THE CITY CLERK TO SCHEDULE THE APPEAL BEFORE THE CITY MANAGER.
THE CITY MANAGER SHALL HOLD A HEARING NO LATER THAN THREE BUSINESS DAYS AFTER THE, IT'S, IT SAYS AFTER THE FILMING OF THE APPEAL.
I THINK THEY MEAN AFTER THE FILING OF THE APPEAL
UM, SO THAT, THAT CALLS IN CITY COUNCIL, UM, BUT AGAIN, NOT THE COMMISSION.
SO I THINK THERE'S ROOM FOR CLARITY HERE, EVEN, EVEN IF THE INTENTION IS TO RETAIN SOME PREROGATIVE.
SO I THINK FOR BOTH OH 4 1 90 AND OH FOUR 200, WE NEED BETTER LANGUAGE AROUND THE APPEALS PROCESS, WHETHER IT'S TO EXPLICITLY
[00:40:01]
GIVE THE COMMISSION THE ABILITY TO DECLINE TO HEAR IT, OR WHETHER IT'S TO REQUIRE WHATEVER IT IS, RIGHT? LIKE EITHER WE HAVE THE DISCRETION OR WE DON'T, BUT, SO IF THERE'S WORDING THAT SAID, UM, YOU KNOW, WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE AIRPORT COMMISSION WHO MAY HEAR OR DENY THAT REQUEST OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WOULD THAT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT YEAH, THAT GIVES YOU THE OPTION.YEAH, I CAN, UM, YEAH, I, I'LL INCLUDE A, A, YOU KNOW, SOME QUESTIONS AROUND THAT, BUT I THINK WE JUST NEED TO CLARIFY WHAT THAT, WHAT THE ROLE OF THIS BODY IS IN THAT PROCESS AND, AND IS IT AT THE DISCRETION OF THE CHAIR? IS IT AT, LIKE, HOW DO WE LIKE IT CURRENTLY IS IF WE'RE GONNA BE CALLING A SPECIAL MEETING, LIKE HOW DO, LIKE, DOES THAT, WE HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF NOTICE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, RIGHT? SO YEAH, SO WITH THE CCB RULES, ALL OF IT GOES THROUGH THE CHAIR NO MATTER WHAT IT IS.
SO YOU, YOU, THE CHAIR WOULD HAVE THE CHOICE WHETHER TO HEAR OR NOT BASED ON OBVIOUSLY THE, THE MEMBERS, UH, YOU KNOW, PRESENTING THEIR, THEIR THOUGHTS ON IT.
SO I THINK WE NEED FOR BOTH OF THOSE SECTIONS.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT THE, THE INTENT WHERE IT STARTED, THAT THE, THEY, THAT IF WE CAN DEFINE THE TIMELINE FOR THE COMMISSION TO, TO HEAR IT, AND MAYBE IT'S PURELY STATED THAT IT, THAT IT WILL BE PART, UM, IF IT'S DECIDED WILL BE ON THE, AN AGENDA ITEM ON THE NEXT COMMISSION MEETING IF ACCEPTED, IF THE APPLICANT WANTS A RESPONSE SOONER THAN IT GOES INTO THE, BY THEIR CHOICE, SO THAT THEN THAT, THAT GETS US OUT OF HAVING SPECIAL COMMISSION MEETINGS BECAUSE THOSE ARE GONNA BE PROBLEMATIC.
WELL, IN OTHER SETTINGS, UM, I, I KNOW THE CITY COUNCIL HAS, WE'LL SAY A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF THE BROWN ACT THAN OTHER CITY BODIES.
UM, YOU'RE ALLOWED, YOU, YOU CAN CALL IT A SPECIAL, UH, A SPECIAL MEETING TO DEAL WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS WITH 48 HOURS NOTICE AND HOLD IT EXCLUSIVELY ON ZOOM.
SO I'VE PARTICIPATED IN MANY OF THOSE WHEN SOMETHING HAS COME UP OR IT'S A CONTRACT APPROVAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT HAS A TIMELY, A TIMELINESS NATURE TO IT.
UM, SO IF, IF THAT MECHANISM IS PERMISSIBLE, THEN THAT MAKES US A WHOLE LOT EASIER.
IF IT'S NOT, THEN, THEN YES, YOU HAVE A VERY EXCELLENT POINT.
UM, SO YEAH, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE AN AREA WHERE WE, WE ARE GOING TO NEED, UH, SOME ADDITIONAL ITERATION WITH THE, THE CITY ATTORNEY AND, AND DAN, I'M HAPPY TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION IF YOU WANTED TO SCHEDULE A CALL OR SOMETHING, WE CAN SURE.
THE THREE OF US TO TALK, I, I, I THINK YOU WILL WANT TO BE, KEEP IT AS FLEXIBLE AS POSSIBLE.
AND IN FACT, JUST TO, YOU KNOW, UH, IF YOU'VE NOTICED THE THREE DAYS HAVE TURNED TO FIVE DAYS IN THIS MOST RECENT DOCUMENT.
I THINK THE ORIGINAL, I THINK THE INTENT WOULD BE TO CHANGE THE OTHER PARTS OF, UM, THE MUNICIPAL CODE TO MATCH THAT AS WELL, JUST BECAUSE OF STAFF TIME AND YEAH.
SO, UH, NAILING YOUR DOWN YOURSELF DOWN TO A TIME TO, TO REVIEW THAT MIGHT BE PROBLEMATIC JUST BECAUSE THERE WERE THREE OR FOUR MONTHS THERE WHERE THE REPORT COMMISSION DIDN'T MEET.
WELL, IF YOU SAID IT WAS THE NEXT MEETING, THEN
MIGHT BE THREE MONTHS BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING.
WE'LL, WE'LL SEE IF THAT'S SOMETHING THEY WANT, BUT IF, BUT IF WE CAN HAVE A SPECIAL THAT WE CAN DO IT AS A ZOOM AS OPPOSED TO ALL CONVENING, AND THAT CERTAINLY BECOMES MORE CONVENIENT AND AND AMIABLE BECAUSE OF, OF PEOPLE'S SCHEDULES YEAH.
MAKES IT MUCH MORE LIKELY THAT WE'D BE ABLE TO SUCCEED WITH, WITH GETTING SOMETHING SCHEDULED.
AND, AND, AND I'M, I'M, I'M, I'M, I'M HAPPY WITH THAT, ON BOARD WITH THAT, BUT OTHERWISE IT WOULDN'T BE A COMMISSION.
AND, AND THAT'S WHY IT GIVES THEM THE, THE PERSON FILING THE COMPLAINT, THE ALTERNATIVE.
IF THEY DON'T WANNA WAIT FOR A COMMISSION MEETING, THERE'S A PATH FORWARD THAT'S CLEARLY STATED THAT THEY CAN GO STRAIGHT TO THE CITY MANAGER SO THAT THERE'S CHOICES.
SO I LIKE THAT TOO, BECAUSE THEN IT'S THEIR, THEIR DISCRETION.
WHERE DO THEY WANT TO GO? OKAY.
SO I THINK WE JUST NEED A LITTLE BIT, EVEN IF IT'S CODIFYING THE FLEXIBILITY, I THINK WE NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE THERE.
UM, SO NOW WE ARE IN, OR AT SECTION 1606 AIRPORT LEASES.
THERE WERE NO PROPOSED CHANGES THERE, UH, IN 1608 ON MOTOR VEHICLES.
UM, SUGGESTION TO ADD COMPLIANCE WITH STATE LAW AND FAA REQUIREMENTS TO 16 0 8 10, UM, AND TO ADD A REFERENCE TO THE FA, A ADVISORY CIRCULAR ON PAINTING, MARKING AND LIGHTING OF VEHICLES USED ON AN AIRPORT.
UM, NOT AS A MUST, BUT AS A SHOULD TO THE GREATEST EXTENT POSSIBLE.
UM, AND THEN, UH, AGAIN, ANOTHER SHOULD, UM, SAYING
[00:45:01]
VEHICLES THAT WILL BE OPERATED IN OR NEAR ACTIVE AIRCRAFT MOVEMENT AREAS SHOULD HAVE RADIO COMMUNICATION CAPABILITIES SUCH THAT THE VEHICLE OPERATOR, CANTER MONITOR, AIR AIRPORT, COMMON TRAFFIC ADVISORY FREQUENCY.SO NOT A, NOT A MUST, NOT A SHELL, BUT, BUT A SHOULD.
WAIT, WHERE ARE YOU RIGHT NOW? UH, 16 0 8 10.
JUST TO, UH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A GREAT IDEA.
I WISH WE COULD, UM,
AND OTHER THINGS, A LITTLE SPINNING LIGHT AND YEAH.
SO THE, I GUESS THE, THE, THE ISSUE HERE IS IT SAYS, UH, VEHICLES OPERATING ON AIRPORT, SO THAT DOESN'T, THAT DOESN'T, UH, DEFINE MOVEMENT VERSUS NON-MOVEMENT AREA.
SO EVERY, THAT BASICALLY SAYS EVERY VEHICLE THAT COMES TO THE GATE WOULD NEED TO COMPLY.
UH, SO THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY, UM, SO MAYBE VEHICLES OPERATING THE MOVEMENT AREA, IF WE LIKE THE VEHICLES THAT WILL BE OPERATED IN OR NEAR ACTIVE AIRCRAFT MOVEMENT AREAS THAT'S IN C, WE COULD USE THAT SAME LANGUAGE IN B.
I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD FIX.
JUST IN A REMINDER, UH, THE TAXI LANE IS NOT THE MOVEMENT AREA, SO AS LONG AS WE SAID MOVEMENT AREA, THAT KIND OF TAKES OUT ALL THE OTHER VEHICLES THAT MIGHT BE USING THE NON-MOVEMENT TAXI LANE TO, TO DRIVE, WHICH THEY DO EVERY DAY.
SO THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD CHANGE.
UM, THIS PROBABLY WON'T APPLY TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN CITY VEHICLES, BUT IN THE FUTURE, IF THERE WAS A VEHICLE THAT WAS GIVEN PERMISSION TO USE THE TAXIWAY SYSTEM, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
UM, I WILL SAY THIS, THIS TENDS TO ONLY APPLY TO PART 1 39 AIRPORTS WITH, UH, ROBUST AIRLINE OPERATIONS OR OTHER VEHICLES.
BUT, UM, NO, IT'S, UH, FINE TO PUT THAT IN THERE.
WELL, THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, I FIGURED IT SHOULD, WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
SO YOU'RE OKAY WITH, UH, REMOVING AIRPORT AND, AND, UH, THE, UH, CHANGE IT TO MOVEMENT AREA? YEAH.
SO IT WOULD BE THE SAME INITIAL LANGUAGE IN BOTH B AND C VEHICLES THAT WILL OKAY.
AND THEN THE MOVEMENT AREA, I DIDN'T SEE IF THAT WAS, UH, DEFINED IN THE DEFINITIONS.
IT IS, UH, MENTIONED IN THE DRIVING MANUAL, SO IT WOULDN'T HURT TO, AND SINCE WE'RE REFERENCING IT WOULD JUST DO NOT CURRENTLY LISTED IN THE DEFINITIONS.
I THINK THAT ADD COULD BE A GOOD ADD DEFINITION.
UH, SO MADE A NOTE TO USE AIRCRAFT MOVEMENT AREAS IN BOTH B AND C AND TO ADD AIRCRAFT MOVEMENT AREA TO THE DEFINITIONS.
UM, THE, UH, SUGGESTED CHANGE IN 16 0 8 20 VEHICLE PARKING IN DESIGNATED AREAS, UM, IS MOSTLY SEMANTICS, UH, BUT, UH, JUST FELT CLEARER TO ME.
I DUNNO,
WHERE IT SAYS, UH, VEHICLES SHALL NOT BE LEFT STANDING ON TAXIWAYS OR PARKED IN AIRCRAFT PARKING AREAS.
DON'T WE ALLOW TENANTS WITH TIE DOWNS TO PARK IN, IS A TIE DOWN CONSIDERED AN AIRCRAFT PARKING AREA? AND IF SO, ARE WE NOT GONNA ALLOW TENANTS TO PARK THEIR CARS THERE? YEAH.
SO WE DO ALLOW VEHICLES TO BE PARKED IN THE NON-MOVEMENT AREA, UH, IN CERTAIN AREAS.
UM, SO IT'S POSSIBLE THAT I AM MISREAD THE INTENT OF THE REQUIREMENT AS WRITTEN, IN WHICH CASE IT STILL NEEDS TO BE REVISED, BUT POSSIBLY IN A DIFFERENT WAY.
WELL, CAN WE GO BACK TO MOVEMENT AREAS? JUST SAY PLACES WHERE, YOU KNOW, BUT IT CAN'T BE LEFT PARKED OR STANDING IN MOVEMENT AREAS AND THEN THAT JUST GOES, GO BACK.
BECAUSE IF, IF THE TIE DOWN AREA IS NOT CONSIDERED A MOVEMENT AREA, THEN THEY CAN PARK THERE.
JUST CHANGE INSTEAD OF AIRCRAFT PARKING AREAS, CHANGE THAT TO AIRCRAFT, UH, MOVEMENT AREAS.
'CAUSE YOU'RE ALREADY SO, SO WE CAN DELETE PLACES WHERE VEHICLES MAY OR MAY NOT BE PARKED.
THAT WHOLE SENTENCE AND THEN JUST HAVE A ONE READ VEHICLES SHALL NOT BE LEFT STANDING IN AIRCRAFT MOVEMENT AREAS, STANDING, PARKED, WHATEVER YOU WANT.
AND I, I THINK, YEAH, THIS IS, UM, SO IT'S BASICALLY SAYING, IT, IT'S THE CITY'S RESPONSIBILITY
AND UM, UH, I GUESS THE QUESTION THAT COMES UP, YOU KNOW, ARE
[00:50:01]
OKAY, ARE WE SAYING NO OR WOULD YOU PUTTING NO PARKING SIGNS, LIKE, I GUESS, I GUESS WHAT THIS IS? YEAH.I BELIEVE THE INTENT HERE IS TO SAY THE CITY'S GONNA MAKE THE CALL, WHICH PLACES AIRCRAFT CAN PARK AND WHICH VEHICLES CAN PARK.
AND THAT MAY CHANGE FROM TIME TO TIME.
UM, SO THAT WAS HIS PLACES WHERE VEHICLES MAY OR MAY NOT BE PARKED.
I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THEM IS LIKE, OKAY.
I MEAN, I THINK YOU'VE DISCOVERED THIS WASN'T WRITTEN THE MOST.
YEAH, I WAS VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD, CONFUSED, I THINK BY WHAT THIS WAS INTENDING.
SO WE WANT, UM, SO THE CITY SHALL DESIGNATE BY APPROPRIATE POSTING THE FOLLOWING PLACES OR VEHICLES MAY OR MAY NOT BE PARKED.
WE COULD JUST PUT A PERIOD THERE THAT THAT'S IT.
LIKE, AND THEN WE DON'T HAVE THIS ANYTHING AFTER THAT IN ONE JUST CITY WILL WILL POST WHERE YOU CAN PARK OR WHERE YOU CAN'T PARK.
AND, AND I GUESS THE OTHER, YEAH.
ANOTHER REASON TO GET RID OF THE OTHER PART IS VEHICLES SHALL NOT BE LEFT STAINING ON TAXIWAYS.
I'M NOT SURE WHY THEY'RE ON TAXIWAYS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD, THAT MIGHT JUST BE GOOD TO REMOVE THAT WHOLE, THAT WHOLE UH, SENTENCE.
I THINK IF WE JUST END ONE AT PARKED PERIOD THE FIRST TIME AROUND, THEN I THINK THAT WILL BE MUCH CLEARER.
MAYBE, MAYBE PARKED ON THE AIRFIELD, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
JUST SO IT'S NOT JUST IS YEAH.
OTHERWISE, OR, OR I MEAN, IT IT DOES DO LANDSIDE TOO.
SO THIS DOES TWO, IT'S DO, DO DOUBLE DUTY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE HEADING, SO PLACES JUST YOU COULD SAY PLACES WHERE VEHICLES MAY OR NOT BE PARKED ON THE AIRPORT, ON AIRPORT PROPERTY.
DOES, IS THAT OKAY? DO WE NEED AN EXCEPTION FOR EMERGENCY VEHICLES? UH, NO.
'CAUSE THEY WOULD SUPERSEDE, UM, MUNICIPAL CODE FOR PARKING UNLESS, UNLESS THEY WERE NON-EMERGENCY, UH, STATUS.
COLIN, DID YOU HAVE A, A CONCERN WITH THAT? I'M JUST LIKE, I'VE SEEN PEOPLE PARK NEXT TO THEIR PLANE AND IT'S ON A TIE DOWN MM-HMM
ARE YOU SAYING THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA LET THAT HAPPEN ANYMORE? NO, IT JUST, THIS GIVES THE, THE CITY THE, UM, THE RIGHT TO, TO APPROVE OR DENY THAT.
'CAUSE AT SOME POINT, I'M JUST GONNA POST IT.
AT SOME POINT WE MAY SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, SORRY, NO MORE AIR, NO MORE VEHICLES PARKING ON THERE BECAUSE MAYBE THERE WAS AN ISSUE.
THAT'S MORE OF JUST A, THAT IS A, UH, A POLICY THAT'S SORT OF BEEN HELD, BUT NOT IN WRITING.
BUT THAT COULD BE, THAT COULD, IF WE HAD ISSUES RIGHT, THEN WE COULD SAY, SORRY, NO, NO.
PARKING IN, IN TIE DOWN SPOTS.
WELL, ARE WE WRITING THIS THING UP FOR NOW OR THE FUTURE? SO ALL OF THE, THE REQUIREMENT JUST STATES THAT WE HAVE TO POST WHERE YOU CAN AND CAN'T PARK.
SO THAT COULD BE A NOTE ON THE DOOR OF THE BUILDING THERE.
THAT, THAT JUST, IT'S JUST POSTING WHERE YOU CAN AND CAN'T PARK.
IT'S NOT SAYING WHERE YOU CAN OR CAN'T PARK.
IT'S JUST SAYING THAT IT NEEDS TO BE POSTED SO THAT YOU AS A USER OF THE AIRPORT KNOW WHAT'S OKAY AND WHAT ISN'T.
RIGHT NOW, IT'S A VERBAL DESIGNATION, WHICH IS WITHIN THE RULES, AND THAT'S WHAT WE USE.
AND WE COULD DO THE SAME AND SAY THAT'S NOT, PARKING'S NOT ALLOWED IN THE FUTURE.
SO IF WE WANT TO SPECIFICALLY PROTECT THE ABILITY TO PARK AT AN AIRCRAFT TIE DOWN, THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE OVER WHAT WAS HERE ALREADY, WHICH WE COULD DO.
WE, WE COULD ADD SOMETHING TO IT.
LIKE IF, IF WE WANT TO EXPLICITLY PROTECT THE ABILITY TO PARK AT YOUR TIEDOWN, WE COULD ADD A C AND, AND DO THAT, RIGHT? OR ADD A THREE HERE.
LIKE MAYBE SO AS NOT TO CONFLICT WITH ANY OTHER AIRCRAFT MOVEMENT.
I, I, I JUST, YOU KNOW, IT, IT SEEMS ODD THAT WE WOULD WRITE THIS UP AND IT WOULD BE BY WORD OF MOUTH.
WELL, SO THIS HAS TO APPLY TO ALL AIRPORT PARKING.
SO EVEN ALONG, UM, SKY RANCH DRIVE.
SO WE, WE HAVE SIGNAGE OUT THERE THAT DESIGNATES NO PARKING ON SKY RANCH.
NOW THAT COULD CHANGE IF WE WORKED IT OUT WITH THE FIRE MARSHAL AND THEY ALLOWED US TO DO PARKING ON ONE SIDE OF THE ROAD, WE COULD CHANGE THAT AND THIS WOULD ALLOW ALL OF THAT.
THE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU GET INTO SPECIFICS LIKE THIS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK AND CHANGE IT AS AS NEEDED.
SO MORE BROAD INTERPRETATION HERE REALLY HELPS US OUT IN THE LONG TERM.
SO ONE POSSIBILITY HERE COULD BE TO SIMPLIFY IT EVEN FURTHER, UH, AND FROM THE LESS IS MORE PERSPECTIVE AND JUST SAY PLACES WHERE VEHICLES MAY NOT BE PARKED ON THE AIRPORT PROPERTY.
BECAUSE THE WAY US LAW WORKS, IF, IF, IF IT'S NOT PRECLUDED, IT'S PROHIBITED.
SO THAT WAY IF THERE BECOMES A PROBLEM WHERE SOMEBODY'S PARKING AT A TIE DOWN THAT'S CAUSING PROBLEMS, YOU CAN POST THERE, NO PARKING HERE.
BUT THE FACT THAT, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO EXPLICITLY POST YES.
SO WE'LL REMOVE THE MAY PART AND JUST THE MAY NOT.
SO JUST, IT'LL JUST SAY PLACES WHERE VEHICLES MAY NOT BE PARKED ON THE AIRPORT PROPERTY.
[00:55:01]
TO POST WHERE YOU CAN'T PARK.SO IF IT DOESN'T SAY NO PARKING, THE WAY US LAW WORKS IS THEN YOU CAN PARK THERE.
DO YOU KNOW IF, WHAT THE COMMON, DO WE, HAVE YOU USED AIRPORT PROPERTY BEFORE? IS IT AIRPORT? I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE'RE YEAH.
UH, UM, UM, I THINK WE SHOULD JUST SAY AIRPORT BECAUSE IT, IN D IN THE DEFINITIONS IT SAYS AIRPORT MEANS THE PETAL AND A MUNICIPAL AIRPORT.
SO I THINK WE JUST SAY AIRPORT, YOUR CAR IS SAFE, COLIN.
AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD CATCH, COLIN.
I THINK, I THINK HA HAVING IT BE YOU HAVE TO PROHIBIT IT AS OPPOSED TO ALLOW IT WILL RETAIN THAT FLEXIBILITY.
I'M TRYING TO GET US OUTTA HERE AT SOME POINT TONIGHT, SO I'M MOVING REALLY FAST, BUT JUST, YOU KNOW, LIKE KICK ME UNDER THE TABLE OR SOMETHING, SIR.
SO THE NEXT ONE IS, UH OH 8 0 30, DRIVING ON TAXIWAY OR RUNWAY PROHIBITED.
UM, AGAIN, JUST POINTING TO, UH, RELEVANT GUIDANCE MATERIAL, UM, UH, AIRCRAFT.
UH, SO THAT'S, THAT'S IT FOR SECTION 16 0 8 16 12 AIRCRAFT ON GROUND.
UM, THERE'S A CORRECTION TO THE TITLE IN 16 12 10, UH, TO AIRCRAFT DESIGN SHOULD BE DESIGNATED.
UNLESS YOUR DESIGNING SPACE IS NOT, IS THAT PART OF YOUR, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I DIDN'T EVEN, I FAILED ENGLISH.
CAREFUL FEES BY FIXED SPACE OPERATORS.
SO 16, 12, 20 FEES BY FIXED BASE OPERATORS IS A, A CORRECTED TITLE.
UH, THAT WE HAD CORRECTED THAT TO FEES BY COMMERCIAL OPERATORS INSTEAD OF FIXED BASE OPERATORS IN GREEN.
THEN THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE, UH, YEAH.
UH, 16, 12 50, THE WORD AIRCRAFT, OH, I'M SORRY.
WAS THERE A GO BACK ON, I GUESS SHOULD FIXED BASE OPERATED FEE CAPITAL, UH, FIXED BASE WAS GONNA BE REPLACED WITH COMMERCIAL IN THE HEADING TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE BODY OF THAT SECTION.
I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T GET YOU THERE.
SO CLARIFYING 16, 12, 20 FEES BY COMMERCIAL OPERATORS.
AND THEN 'CAUSE THEN IT'S COMMERCIAL OPERATORS MAY CHARGE BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
IT'S
SO THEN IT'S CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT, UM, 16, 12, UH, 50, THE WORD AIRCRAFT HAS BEEN ADDED.
AIRCRAFT PARKING AND TAXIWAY AREAS PROHIBITED.
UM, WHAT IF THE TAXIWAY IS CLOSED? YEAH, I, SO THIS IS PROBLEMATIC FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE IN GENERAL.
'CAUSE IT SAYS TAXI AREAS SHALL BE MAINTAINED OPEN TO TAXI AIRCRAFT AT ALL TIMES, AND NEW AIRCRAFT SHALL BE PARKED IN SUCH TAXI BAY AREAS ARE LEFT UNATTENDED IN SUCH A MANNER AS TO INTERFERE WITH THE FREE FLOW OF TRAFFIC.
SO THIS ACTUALLY DOESN'T EVEN ALLOW YOU TO CLOSE A TAXIWAY AS IT'S WRITTEN.
WELL, YOU JUST THEN SAY OPEN TAXIWAYS OR, OR ACTIVE, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S THE APPROPRIATE TERM? WELL, YOU KNOW, UM, ACTIVE TAXIWAY AREA THAT COULD FIX IT.
JUST ADD ACTIVE TAXIWAY AREAS.
UM, IS ACTIVE OR OPEN? WHAT DO YOU PREFER? I THINK ACTIVE.
BECAUSE THEN YOU USE THE WORD OPEN TO MEAN NOT BLOCKED OFF IF THEY'RE ACTIVE.
SO OPEN TAXIWAYS SHALL BE MAINTAINED.
WELL, I THINK ACTIVE IS, IS IS OUR TERM.
RIGHT? BECAUSE WE, WE USE IT'S EITHER ACTIVE OR, YEAH.
WE DON'T SAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S OPEN
ARE WE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT OR IS THIS WE, WE WOULD, IF IT WAS A TAXIWAY.
SO TAXI, TAXI LANE, BRAVO IS NOT A TAXIWAY.
TAXIWAY DESIGNATES A, UM, A WAY FOR AIRCRAFT TO, TO MOVE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE RUNWAYS, UM, AS PART OF THE MOVEMENT AREA.
[01:00:01]
ACTUALLY PART OF THE NON-MOVEMENT AREA.IT'S KIND OF CONFUSING, BUT THAT'S HOW THE FA WROTE THE RULES.
SO THAT DOES ALLOW US TO DRIVE ON IT.
UM, I RECOMMEND TO PEOPLE NOT DRIVE ENOUGH.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO, BUT WE ALL DO IT.
AND IT'S, IT IS PART OF THE, UM, THE AREA THAT IS, IS DRIVABLE AND IT'S NOT PART OF THE MOVEMENT AREA.
SO IT'S TAXI LANE B, TAXI LANE B, AND TAXI WAY A ALPHA.
UM, PROPOSED LANGUAGE IS, AGAIN, THIS WAS ANOTHER ONE THAT I, I WASN'T SURE I WAS, THIS SEEMED LIKE A LITTLE BIT CONFUSING THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN.
SO I, I WAS PROPOSING A, A REWORDING TRYING TO RETAIN THE INTENT AS I UNDERSTOOD IT.
SO IF THE NEW LANGUAGE IN THE OLD LANGUAGE DOESN'T SEEM TO MEAN THE SAME THING TO YOU, THEN THAT MEANT THE OLD LANGUAGE WAS CONFUSING TO ME AND WE SHOULD FIX IT DIFFERENTLY.
UM, ALL STRUCTURES IN PERSONS, I DON'T KNOW.
UM, PROPERTY SEEMS A LITTLE TOO BROAD.
WELL, THEY, SOMEBODY'S CAR YOU ARE GONNA DEFINE CARS.
I THINK PROPERTY IS LOOSE AND YOU GOTTA BE LOOSE CARS.
YOU NEED DEFINE CARS, MOTORCYCLES.
YOU SAY VEHICLES OR, WELL, I GUESS, UH, YEAH.
SO I GUESS LIGHT STANCHIONS, FEDEX, LIGHT STANCHIONS ARE CONSIDERED PROPERTY, RIGHT? I JUST DON'T WANT IT, YOU KNOW, REAL ESTATE'S ALSO CONSIDERED PROPERTY.
YEAH, THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S A LITTLE AMBIGUOUS, BUT I'M OKAY WITH IT.
IT COULD JUST SAY STRUCTURES OR PERSONS, BUT THEN THAT DOES LEAVE OUT LIKE CARS AND OTHER AIRPLANES AND CARS AND THE LAND.
FEDEX IS LIGHT STANCHIONS AND YEAH.
UM, I JUST WAS TRYING TO MAKE IT CONSISTENT.
THE TITLE SAYS HAND PROPPING THE DEX SAID HAND CRANKING.
SO I'M PROPOSING WE CHANGE IT TO HAND CROPPING, OR WE CAN CHANGE THE TITLE TO HAND CRANKING.
I DON'T CARE, BUT THEY SHOULD BE THE SAME WORD.
UM, IN 16, 16, NO PROPOSED CHANGES UNTIL 1607.
UH, JUST ADDING AN S TO HANGERS, TAXING UNDER POWER INTO OR OUT OF HANGERS PROHIBITED.
UH, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN THAT SECTION? NO.
SO WE SHOULD NOT GO DOWN TAXI LANE B TO GET TO THE RUN UP AND TAKEOFF AREA.
UM, IT, IT'S ALWAYS AN OPTION.
IT IS OPEN TO, TO ALL TENANTS.
UM, THEY'RE DRIVING TO THEIR HANGERS.
UM, I WOULD RECOMMEND THE OPPOSITE SIDE JUST FOR CONFLICTS, BECAUSE YOU NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT AN AIRCRAFT COMING AT YOU.
IF YOU'RE ON THE SIDE, THE AIRCRAFT CAN'T TAXI.
SO THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE MY GUIDANCE ON THAT ONE.
UM, ONLY THE OLDER HANGERS ARE REALLY NECESSARY.
IT IS REALLY AN ONLY AN OPTION FOR THE OLDER HANGERS THAT SOME OF THE NEWER HANGERS, YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT NEAR THE MOVEMENT AREA.
SO ROW ONE THROUGH IT ONLY REALLY AFFECTS ROW ONE THROUGH NINE DOWN THE PAPA HANGER.
UM, IT'S NOT THAT YOU CAN'T DO IT, IT JUST, UM, IT'S MORE ADVISABLE TO TAKE THE INNER ROUTE JUST FOR SAFETY, BUT EITHER ARE AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, WELL THEN SHOULD IN 16, 16 0 1 0 SHOULD IT BE SHALL OR SHOULD.
BECAUSE IT SAYS TAXI WAY, NOT TAXI, TAXI, TAXI LANE.
I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS THE REFERENCE AGAIN? THE FIRST ONE IN 1616.
16, 16 0 1 0 AIRCRAFT TAXIING FOR TAKEOFF.
WE HAD JUST HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT TAXI WAY VERSUS TAXI LANE, AND THIS SAYS TAXIWAY.
SHOULD WE SAY TAXIWAY OR TAXI LANE? YES.
COULD WE JUST DO A TAXIWAY SLASH TAXI LANE? YEAH, SURE.
I WOULD'VE MISSED THAT ONE EVERY DAY.
UM, SO THAT ACTUALLY APPLIES THROUGHOUT BECAUSE IT SAYS TAXIWAY AND OTHER PLACES, LIKE IN 1620 USE OF TAXIWAYS BY LANDING AIRCRAFT.
WELL, UM, LEAVE A RUNWAY IN THE FIRST BE OLD TAXIWAY
[01:05:02]
TAXIING,THE ONLY THING TO ADD TO COMPLICATE THIS IS, UM, SOME AIRCRAFT CAN'T USE THE TAXI LANE BECAUSE OF WING CLEARANCES.
SO IN GENERAL, WHEN YOU REFER TO A TAXIWAY, YOU ARE REFERRING TO ANY, ANY SURFACE THAT YOU ARE USING TO MOVE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE RUNWAY.
ANOTHER OPTION FOR DEALING WITH, UH, THAT 16, 16 10 COLUMN COULD BE TO JUST SAY, ALL AIRCRAFT PREPARING TO TAKE OFF.
SHELL TAXI TO THE END OF THE RUNWAY FOR TAKEOFF.
'CAUSE WE HAVE ELSEWHERE IN HERE, I THINK.
UM, THERE AGAIN, COMES YOUR MIDFIELD TAKEOFF THING, RIGHT? WHICH IS, IT SAYS MIDFIELD OR INTERSECTION TAKEOFFS ARE PROHIBITED.
THERE'S A WHOLE OTHER QUESTION HERE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THIS LEVEL OF SPECIFICITY IN THE CITY CODE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
BUT I, I, I THINK THIS FIX THIS DOES FIX IT THOUGH.
PREPARING TO TAKE OFF SHALL TAXI TO THE END OF THE RUNWAY FOR TAKEOFF.
THAT MAKES, THAT MAKES IT EASY.
BECAUSE THAT, THAT'LL PREVENT THE INTERSECTION.
WE NEED TO SAY APPROPRIATE
SO I THINK IN COMBINATION WITH THAT, WE'RE OKAY.
DO WE STILL NEED 16? 16 0 8 0? YEAH.
THAT'S, UH, MORE OF AN FA THING, AND THAT'S THE SOURCE OF THAT.
I COULDN'T, I, I DID SOME RESEARCH.
I COULDN'T FIND THE EXACT, UH, FA DOCUMENT, BUT, UM, YEARS AGO THIS WAS A, A, THEY, THEY TRY TO GET RID OF ALL THE BID FIELD, UM, TAKEOFFS, EVEN CROSSINGS.
THAT IS THE THING THAT WE TRY TO MINIMIZE IS ANY KIND OF CROSS, EVEN VEHICLES.
UH, AND THEN 16, 16 100 IS THE EMERGENCY SECTION, UM, 16 CHAPTER, 1620 AIR AIRCRAFT TRAFFIC PATTERNS.
UH, IN OUR PREVIOUS DISCUSSION ON THIS, THERE WAS A LOT OF INTEREST IN KIND OF KICKING THAT OUT OF THE CODE, UM, AND JUST PUBLISHING IT WITH THE AIRPORT INFORMATION.
UM, SO TRY TO TAKE THAT APPROACH HERE.
SO IN 16 20 10, UM, OFFICIAL POINTING TO USERS OF THE AIRPORT ARE DIRECTED TO THE FA A'S AIM FOR OTHER RELEVANT GUIDANCE MATERIAL.
UM, AND NOT A, NOT A SHELL, JUST A, HEY, THIS EXISTS, YOU SHOULD GO READ IT.
UM, THEN IN 16, 20 20, AIRPORT TRAFFIC PATTERNS, UH, THIS IS BASED OFF OF OUR LAST CONVERSATION TO DELETE THE MAJORITY OF 16, 20 20 AND ALL OF 16, 20 30, UM, AND REPLACE IT WITH, UH, A C HERE, UH, NEW C, WHICH IS THAT THE AIRPORT MANAGER WILL ENSURE THAT THE INFORMATION PUBLISHED IN THE FAS AIRPORT FACILITY DIRECTORY, INCLUDING REMARKS IS KEPT CURRENT.
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY GONNA LOOK AT WHEN YOU'RE COMING TO THE AIRPORT, NOT THIS
SO THAT'S THE, I'LL PAUSE THERE.
'CAUSE THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TEXT THAT'S BEING DELETED, AND IT'S GIVING DAN A NEW REQUIREMENT EFFECTIVELY.
SO MAKE SURE WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT.
DON'T OBJECT TO THE, UH, 2030 BEING REMOVED.
COULD YOU KINDA WALK US THROUGH, UM, THE THOUGHT PROCESS ON REMOVING THAT THE, UM, THE AIRCRAFT APPROACHING TO DETERMINE AIRPORT CONDITIONS? NEXT SECTION? UM, SO YOU, YOU JUST, I MIGHT BE JUMPING AHEAD, BUT YOU, YOU ALREADY REMOVED ALL THESE ITEMS FROM, UM, FROM, UH, 2020, RIGHT? RIGHT.
UM, AND THEN, UM, BASICALLY YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T WANT TO, UH, DEFINE THE, THE PATTERN AND I RIGHT.
SO THE CONVERSATION WAS THAT THIS MAY BE EXACTLY THE RIGHT INFORMATION THAT PILOTS NEED TO HAVE FOR THE AIRPORT, BUT THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT PLACE TO CONVEY IT TO THE PEOPLE THAT NEED TO HAVE IT.
SO INSTEAD OF HAVING IT HERE AND BEING LOCKED INTO A 30 YEAR REVISION CYCLE IN THE CITY CODE, JUST MAKE THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE INFORMATION BE INCLUDED IN THE AIRPORT FACILITY DIRECTORY.
AND THEN NEXT STEP WOULD BE COPY, PASTE ALL OF THIS AND MAKE SURE
[01:10:01]
THAT IT'S ACTUALLY IN THAT, UH, FORM.UM, I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A FEW PIECES OF THIS THAT ARE MISSING BASED ON MY QUICK SKIM OF THAT DIRECTORY.
SO IT MIGHT BE A GOOD THING TO DOUBLE CHECK.
DO WE THE, YOU KNOW, I, I GO BACK TO WHAT THE INFORMATION THAT NANCY PUT TOGETHER TO SEND OUT FOR OUR FLYOUT YESTERDAY, AND IT SPECIFICALLY FOR HALF MOON BAY, THEY HAD, IT'S NOT IN THE AIRPORT FACILITIES DIRECTORY, I THINK, BUT IT'S PART OF THE AIRPORT WEBSITE, THE BROCHURE FOR BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR WHEN YOU'RE COMING IN.
THEY SPECIFICALLY DEFINE, UH, UH, GOING HOW, HOW TO ENTER THE PATTERN AND HOW TO APP APPRO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE COMING FROM THE NORTH, THE SOUTH, ALL THESE OTHER THINGS.
LIKE ONE OF 'EM WAS CROSSING OVER AT 1500, AT LEAST 1500 FEET OR 500 FEET ABOVE PATTERN ALTITUDE.
SO I AGREE WITH YOU, THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO HAVE IT.
I'M NOT NECESSARILY SURE THAT THE AIRPORT FACILITIES DIRECTORY IS GONNA HAVE ALL OF THAT, AND MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE, UH, UH, CONSULTED AT THE WEBSITE.
UM, YEAH, NANCY, GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
YEAH, THERE'S ALSO ADVISORY CIRCULAR 60 DASH 90 99 C, UM, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, AIRPORT OPERATIONS.
IT'S THE ONE FOR AIRPORT OPERATIONS AT NON TOWER AIRPORTS THAT DEFINE ALL OF THIS HOW TO IN OR HOW TO ACT, YOU KNOW, THE 45 DEGREES AND RECOMMENDED PROCEDURES.
IT EVEN HAS A LITTLE THING FOR ULTRA LIGHTS.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANNA REFERENCE AND REFERENCE IT HERE.
I I MARKED IT UP LATER ON WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ULTRA LIGHTS, BECAUSE I THINK IT DEFINITELY SHOULD BE REFERENCED THERE.
THE ONLY DOWNSIDE WITH THAT IS THE C MAY BECOME A D BECOMES AN E.
HOW ABOUT WE JUST DO, YOU CAN GO LITTLE MORE GENERAL.
90 DASH 60, THE LATEST VERSION OF AC 99 DASH 60 OR 90 DASH 66.
I'M SORRY, YOU SAID 90 DASH 66? IT'S 90 DASH 66.
IT'S NON TOWERED AIRPORT FLIGHT OPERATIONS.
SO WE CAN ADD, UM, WE CAN ADD LANGUAGE TO C UH, THAT YEAH, THIS INFORMATION SHOULD BE PUBLISHED ON THE AIRPORT WEBSITE IN ADDITION TO HAVING THE AIRPORT FACILITIES DIRECTORY CURRENT.
AND WE CAN, UH, ADD A D TO REFERENCE THE AC.
AND I THINK THAT WILL COVER THE INTENT OF GETTING THE INFORMATION OUT THERE WHILE HAVING IT BE IN MORE ACCESSIBLE PLACES.
UM, AND I'M QUITE COMFORTABLE THAT THE CITY SHOULDN'T BE TELLING THE AIRPORT WHAT THE PATTERN LOOKS LIKE.
SO
UM, NOTHING, UH, THIS IS A SUGGESTION.
I, I DON'T THINK THIS CAME FROM ME.
I THINK THIS CAME FROM OUR CONVERSATION, UH, TO DELETE 16 20 0 4 OH A AND RETAIN, UM, B AND C WITH THE UPDATED LETTERING THAT NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED THERE.
WHERE WE BACK IN THE, AND I AM NOT A HELICOPTER PILOT.
I DON'T EVEN PRETEND TO BE ONE.
SO, WELL, THE, THE PROBLEM IS THE PROBLEMS THAT D THE DOWN WASH, IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE HELICOPTER PILOTS IS IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TAXIING FAIR OR LANDING
SO IF WE, IF WE WANT TO RETAIN A, WE CAN RETAIN A, I DON'T HAVE A HORSE IN THIS RACE.
UM, I DELETED IT BASED OFF OF NOTES FROM OUR PREVIOUS CONVERSATION.
THE HELIPADS, I MEAN, THEY, THEY DON'T, I'VE RARELY SEEN HELICOPTERS LAND ON THE HELIPAD.
THE HELIPADS DO NOT LEGALLY EXIST.
WHAT DO, DO YOU FOLKS WANT TO PROCEED WITH DELETING A OR DO WE WANT TO RETAIN IT? I THINK IT'S REPETITIVE.
SO 1624 AIRCRAFT FUELING AND DEFUEL, UM, IN 16, 24 50 IS THE FIRST, UH, EDIT THERE, REPLACING GASOLINE WITH FUEL.
UM, AND THEN 16 24 60, UH, I JUST DIDN'T QUITE
[01:15:01]
UNDERSTAND WHY WE WERE ONLY HAVING FUELING HOSES AND ONLY DEFUEL EQUIPMENT.SO I JUST THOUGHT IT WOULD BE MORE CLEAR TO SAY, FUELING AND DEFUEL HOSES AND OTHER EQUIPMENT TO JUST KIND OF COVER THE WHOLE PACKAGE.
SO THAT WAS JUST MORE OF AN EDITORIAL THING ON MY PART.
I GUESS THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, WHY IS THIS IN HERE?
DON'T I TRULY, IF THERE'S THINGS HERE THAT WE THINK ARE NOT VALUE ADDED AND THAT WE WANT TO TAKE OUT, WE SHOULD SUGGEST THEIR REMOVAL.
I JUST, I WAS AIRING ON THE SIDE OF SHRINKING THE CHANGE.
UM, BUT IF I'M NOT ATTACHED TO ANY OF THIS LANGUAGE BY ANY MEANS, RIGHT.
I THINK THIS, THIS IS A GOOD EDIT ON, UM, IT ONLY REALLY APPLIES TO THE CITY AT THIS TIME OR THE FORESTRY SERVICE IF THEY WERE TO COME IN.
BUT, UM, I THINK KEEPING IT IS FINE AND IT, AND IT MOSTLY APPLIES TO US.
SO 1628, UH, MUCH OF THAT WAS UNSHAPED, EXCUSE ME, UM, 16, 28, 1 20 PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS.
I'M, UM, THERE WAS AN ADDITION, NOT BY ME TO ADD MAY TO INSPECT THE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS.
THE CITY ATTORNEY PUT THAT IN.
UH, THEY, I THINK THE INTENT WAS TO GIVE, UH, THE FIRE MARSHAL FLEXIBILITY, UM, IF IT, IF THERE WAS A, I THINK THE ORIGINAL, UM, WORD WAS WILL INSTEAD OF MAY.
UM, SO AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS WE'VE HAD CONDITIONS WHERE SOMETIMES THAT WASN'T POSSIBLE.
UM, THERE WERE OTHER METHODS AND, AND MEANS FOR HAVING OTHER ENTITIES TAKE OVER THAT.
AND SO I THINK THAT, I THINK THEY'RE JUST GONNA GIVE 'EM THE FLEXIBILITY, UM, APPRECIATE THE DESIRE FOR FLEXIBILITY.
I THINK THIS IS A REDUCTION IN OVERALL SAFETY.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT INSTEAD OF MAY BE INSPECTED PERIODICALLY, IT SAY, WILL BE INSPECTED PERIODICALLY BY THE FIRE MARSHAL OR THEIR DESIGNEE.
AND I, UH, HEAR THAT THE ONLY ISSUE WITH THAT IS THE FIRE MARSHAL DOESN'T INSPECT FIRE EXTINGUISHERS, UM, AS A, AS AN ANNUAL INSPECTION.
IT DOESN'T SPECIFY THAT THEY HAVE TO BE ANNUAL, JUST SAY PERIODICALLY.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S TWO QUESTIONS I HAVE IN HERE.
ONE IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FIRE, AFFORDABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS, AND WE'RE TALKING TWO, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ONE SITTING IN TOM AND NANCY'S HANGAR, AND THEN THE ONES THAT ARE ON THE AIRPORT PROVIDED BY THE AIRPORT.
AND WE NEED TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THOSE BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PUTTING RIGHT OR WRONG, ALL OF THE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS ARE GONNA BE TREATED EQUALLY SO THAT FIRE MARSHAL CAN COME IN TO KNOCK ON TOMS AND INSPECT THAT, WHETHER WE WANT THAT OR NOT.
IT, IT, I THINK WE NEED TO DEFINE WHAT THE CITY WILL TAKE CARE OF FOR THE CITY AIR AIRPORT.
UH, THE, THE CITY PROVIDED, OR THE AIRPORT PROVIDED FIRE EXTINGUISHERS.
AND THEN I THINK YOU SHOULD SET SOME EXPECTATIONS FOR WHAT THE INDIVIDUAL, THE PRIVATE HANGERS, WHAT, WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE IN THERE.
BUT HOW ARE YOU GOING TO, IF YOU, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE SHOULD CHECK THE FIRE EXTINGUISH.
HOW ARE YOU GONNA, HOW ARE YOU GONNA ENFORCE ON PRIVATE HANGERS? YEAH.
WHETHER THAT, THAT FIRE EXTINGUISHER WAS WOR THERE, PRIVATE HANGERS.
AND THEN HE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MOVING LOCATION.
WELL, SO IF TOM HAD IT ON THIS WALL, BUT THEN DECIDED BECAUSE OF SOMETHING HE NEEDED TO MOVE TO THE OTHER WALL, HAS HE THEN VIOLATED IT? YEAH, BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE A PRIVATE HANGER.
HE IS, HE'S BUT THE CITY, SO PRIVATE HANGERS, AND THEN THERE'S CITY HANGERS.
BUT, BUT YOU ALSO, JUST FOR, FOR YOU CLARIFICATION, ALSO TALKING ABOUT, DO YOU HAVE A, A FIRE EXTINGUISHER IN YOUR HANGAR? SO, NO, I HAVE ONE IN MY AIRPLANE, BUT I DON'T HAVE ONE IN MY HANGER.
BECAUSE IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A PRIVATE HANGAR.
IT'S A, THAT'S WHERE IT SEEMS, IT'S, IT'S GETTING VERY, IT WAS A LITTLE, IT WAS CONFUSING TO ME, BUT THAT WE NEED TO DEFINE WHAT, WHAT FIRE EXTINGUISHERS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
IF WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE ONES ON THE AIRPORT SITTING THERE, THEN WE NEED TO DEFINE THAT THE, THE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS OWNED AND MAINTAINED BY THE CITY AIRPORT SHALL BE THE SECOND WHAT IF, OR DEFINE PRIVATE HANGAR.
YEAH, WELL, SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT EXTRA.
IT IS A LITTLE BIT EVEN MORE THAN THAT, BECAUSE AN A, IT SAYS THAT, UH, PORTABLE ERS SHALL BE PROVIDED INSTALLED BY THE LESSEE FOR ALL PRIVATE HANGERS, INCLUDING HANGERS USED FOR COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS.
SO THAT IMPLIES THAT TOM IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A, HE DOESN'T HAVE A PRIVATE HANGER.
UM, UH, BUT AREN'T YOU CONSIDERED, YOU'RE A LESSEE, YOU LEASE THAT HANGER, RIGHT? UH, A PRIVATE HANGER, THE HANGER IS OWNED BY, LIKE, GOLDEN STATE HAS A PRIVATE HANG 'CAUSE THEY OWN THEIR HANGER
[01:20:01]
AND THEY JUST PLAY PAY A GROUND LEASE.UM, AS A LESSEE, I'M LEASING A PUBLIC HANGAR.
SO STILL, SHOULD WE ADD THAT TO THE DEFINITION? IS PRIVATE HANGAR DEFINED? NO, IT'S NOT
I'M MAKING A NOTE TO DEF ADD A DEFINITION FOR PUBLIC AND PRIVATE HANGERS.
NO MATTER WHAT WE DO WITH FIRE EXTINGUISHERS,
AND THEN ONE POSSIBILITY IS THAT IN C WE KEEP THE WILL, BUT WE DELETE THE FIRE MARSHAL.
WELL, THE OTHER, THE OTHER THING I WAS, SO SOMEBODY'S EXPECTING IT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE, IF WE DEFINE AIRPORT OWNED, THE CITY OF PETALUMA AIRPORT WILL, UH, UM, MAINTAIN AND KEEP CURRENT ALL FIRE, ALL FIRE EXTINGUISHERS UNDER THEIR OWNERSHIP.
AND THEN NEXT, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
SO THEN IT, THEN IT'S ENTIRELY UPON WHATEVER DAN'S CURRENT PROCEDURES ARE FOR MAKING SURE THAT THE, THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER CURRENT.
I MEAN, YOU GET AN ANNUAL INSPECTION PROBABLY, AND SOMEBODY PUTS A TAG ON IT OR WHATEVER IT IS, BUT JUST BROADLY THAT IT'S UNDER THE, THE WHATEVER THE, THE, THE DANS, THE, THE PROCESSES THAT THEY'RE GONNA MAINTAIN THEM, AND THEN THE PRIVATE ONES, THEN YOU CAN JUST SAY THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE INSPECTED OR, SO WE, OKAY, SO I'M TRYING, I'M MAKING NOTES OF WHAT OUR INTENTION HERE IS.
SO WE WANT THE CITY TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HAVING AN INSPECTING FIRE EXTINGUISHERS IN ALL PUBLIC HANGERS.
AND WE WANT THE LESSEES TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DOING SAME IN PRIVATE HANGERS.
WE DO WANT QUOTE, PERIODIC INSPECTIONS TO BE REQUIRED, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO SPECIFY BY WHOM DOES THAT WORK THERE? YEAH.
I, I GUESS THE WAY THAT I READ THIS IS THE FIRST PART IS JUST SAYING, HEY, IF YOU GOT YOUR OWN HANGER, UH, YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE TO HAVE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER.
SO UP FRONT, IF YOU, IF IT'S YOUR HANGER, YOU GOTTA PROVIDE ONE B AND C APPLY TO EVERY SINGLE FIRE EXTINGUISHER ON THE FIELD.
SO THAT'S THE CITY OWNED ONES.
IT'S THE PRIVATE ONES THAT APPLY TO ALL OF 'EM.
UM, YOU CAN'T MOVE 'EM UNLESS THEY'RE BEING RECHARGED.
WE, WE HAVE THE SAME REQUIREMENT ON OURS.
UM, C IS REALLY MOSTLY DIRECTED, AND IT'S INSTRUCTED AT THE CITY TOO, BUT IT'S ALSO DIRECTED AT THE TENANTS THAT IF YOU GOT A, IF YOU'VE GOT A FIRE EXTINGUISHER OUTSIDE YOUR HANGAR OR INSIDE YOUR HANGAR, IT CAN'T BE BEHIND A BUNCH OF STUFF.
IT HAS TO BE EASILY ACCESSIBLE.
AND THAT APPLIES TO BOTH PRIVATE AND CITY.
I THINK THAT'S HOW IT WAS WRITTEN.
IT WAS, UM, WHAT I DON'T THINK WE WANTED TO DO IS STARTING TO GET INTO FIRE EXTINGUISHER REQUIREMENTS AS FAR AS DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN THE TWO.
UM, BUT RIGHT AS IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW, YEAH.
AS I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S REQUIRED THAT THE PUBLIC HANGERS BE EQUIPPED WITH A FIRE EXTINGUISHER.
IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT, UM, IN THIS, BUT IT'S A REQUIREMENT FROM THE ACTUAL FIRE MARSHAL.
AND IT'S, AND IT IS CODE WHEN YOU BUILD, RIGHT.
A NEW, THERE HAS TO BE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER.
I DON'T THINK IT'D BE A NEW REQUIREMENT IF IT WAS CALLED OUT HERE.
SO IN PUB, IN PUBLIC HANGERS, THE CITY OF PETALUMA OR CITY AIRPORT WILL PROVIDE, UH, FIRE EXTINGUISHERS ACCORDING TO THE APPROPRIATE FIRE CODE.
SO, SO NEPA ALREADY KIND OF SUPERSEDES THIS.
SO WHATEVER THE REQUIREMENTS WERE AT THE TIME WAS BUILT, THOSE FIRE EXTINGUISHER BOXES HAVE TO REMAIN OR BE UPGRADED AND REMAIN THE SAME DISTANCE FROM EACH OTHER.
THAT'S A, THAT'S A REQUIREMENT THAT GOES BEYOND.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT IT NEEDS TO BE IN HERE, BUT WE COMPLY WITH THAT.
UM, I THINK THAT, THAT WE TRY TO MAKE THIS AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE JUST TO SAY LIKE, EVERYBODY'S GOTTA HAVE ONE AND IT'S GOTTA BE ACCESSIBLE.
BUT WE DON'T WANNA HAVE TO INSPECT YOUR FIRE EXTINGUISHER, YOUR PRIVATE HANGAR.
EVERY PERIODIC, WHATEVER IT IS.
BUT SOMEBODY, SHOULD WE RESERVE THE RIGHT, BUT SOMEBODY SHOULD BE, SOMEBODY SHOULD BE, SOMEBODY SHOULD BE EXPECTING IT.
LIKE THE OWNER OF THAT PRIVATE HANGER SHOULD BE UR YOU HAVE, DO YOU, IS THERE, YOU SAID NIMA? THOSE, THOSE, THOSE WHATEVER THE GOVERNING ORGANIZATION, THOSE FIRE SINGERS SHOULD BE, UH, MAINTAINED ACCORDING TO WHATEVER THEIR NAME IS, GUIDELINES, WHATEVER IT IS.
IT TENDS TO BE THE CODE THAT WAS IN PLACE WHEN THE STRUCTURE WAS APPROVED.
AND SO IT'S, IT, IT DOES IN, IN MOST CASES IS GRANDFATHERED WHAT THAT PERMIT REQUIREMENT WAS.
WOULD YOU SAY? ACCORDING TO CODE? SURE.
SO I, I THINK THERE'S, AND THE FIRE MARSHAL WAS GIVEN THIS, BY THE WAY.
THEY, THEY DID REVIEW AND THEY WERE OKAY WITH IT.
THANKS FOR THE, THANKS FOR THE NEW, UH, UH, FIRE EXTINGUISHERS DOWN ON
THOSE ONE THROUGH EIGHT, NO MORE GLASS, UH, BREAK GLASS.
SO I THINK WE, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE THE APPROPRIATE DISTRIBUTION OF FIRE EXTINGUISHERS.
[01:25:01]
WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSIBLE PARTY IS KEEPING THEM IN GOOD WORKING ORDER MM-HMMAND WE WANNA ENSURE THAT, UM, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S DISTINCTION BETWEEN LIKE PRIVATE RESPONSIBILITY VERSUS PUBLIC RESPONSIBILITY.
I THINK THEY'RE THE SAME THOUGH, AREN'T THEY? THE PUBLIC AND PRIVATE.
WELL, BUT WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR DOING IT IS DIFFERENT.
AND RIGHT NOW IT ONLY, UM, RIGHT NOW IT ONLY SAYS THAT FIRE EXTINGUISH BE PROVIDED IN THE PRIVATE HANGERS.
AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THAT THERE'S FIRE CODE THAT SPECIF THAT, YOU KNOW, SUPERSEDES THAT FOR THE PUBLIC HANGERS.
BUT WOULD YOU BE MORE COMFORTABLE JUST TAKING OUT THE PRIVATE HANGAR PART AND JUST SAYING, UM, BY THE LESSOR OR LESSEE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND JUST KINDA MAKE IT A GENERAL, AND THAT PUTS TOM AND ME BACK ON THE HOOK FOR HAVING, YEAH, YOU COULD JUST SAY PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISH SHELBY.
UM, WELL, I THINK, I THINK A IS FINE, BUT I THINK THERE'S JUST AN ADDITION TO IT OF THAT, LIKE PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS WILL ALSO BE PROVIDED PER APPLICABLE CODES IN PUBLIC YEAH.
SO PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS SHALL BE PROVIDED BY THE CITY AIRPORT.
AND ALL PUBLIC HANGERS, PRIVATE HANGERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THEIR OWN PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS AND MAINTAINING THAT THEY MEET CODE GUIDELINES.
I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE AGREEMENT AROUND THE INTENT, AND I FEEL LIKE WE'RE JUST KIND OF STUCK ON THE WORDINGS AND, AND THERE'S A COUPLE OTHER PLACES THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE A GO BACK ANYWAY, SO I THINK WE CAN MOVE ON, TAKE AGREEMENT ON THE, TAKE AGREEMENT ON THE INTENT AND, AND LEAVE THE, THE WORDSMITHING.
UM, I, UH, SO THE LAST ONE IN THAT SECTION IS ANOTHER, WAS ANOTHER FLIP FROM I THINK WILL TO MAY FOR FIRE MARSHAL DRILLS AND INSPECTIONS.
UH, IT SAYS FIRE PREVENTION INSPECTIONS MAY BE CONDUCTED BY THE FIRE MARSHAL, AND FIRE DRILLS SHALL BE HELD AT THEIR DISCRETION.
I THINK THAT'S, I THINK I'M OKAY WITH THAT USAGE OF THE WORD MAY SAME INTENT.
SO IN CHAPTERS 1632, ULTRALIGHT AIRCRAFT AND UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS, UM, GIVEN THAT THIS IS LIKE WHERE I SPEND MOST OF MY
UM, THAT'S THE CHANGE I THINK WAS ALREADY MADE IN THE PROPO.
AND THIS PROPO, LIKE OUR ORIGINAL COPY OF THIS PROPOSAL HAD ALREADY HAD MY MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE MADE IN IT, WHICH WAS TO SPECIFY THAT ALL AIR VEHICLES, WHICH MEET THE APPLICABILITY CRITERIA LISTED IN FAR PART 1 0 3, ARE CONSIDERED ULTRALIGHT AIRCRAFT.
IT USED TO READ THAT IF THEY WEREN'T REGISTERED, THEY WERE ULTRALIGHT AIRCRAFT, WHICH IS FALSE.
SO THAT CHANGE THAT WE'VE KIND OF ALREADY WORKED THROUGH WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT TO ME.
UM, BUT I DID HAVE SOME OTHER SUGGESTED CHANGES, UH, FOR ULTRA LIGHTS, UM, POINTING TO THAT ADVISORY CIRCULAR 1 0 3 6.
UM, IT'S NOT, IT'S A LITTLE OLD, BUT IT'S THERE.
UM, WE, I'M NOT AWARE OF AN ONGOING ACTIVITY TO DO THAT, SO I THINK IT'S PRETTY STABLE FOR THE TIME BEING.
UH, WELL, I THINK BY NOT REFERENCING A, A DESIGNATION, I THINK WE'RE LIKE, IF IT WAS LIKE, IF IT HAD ALREADY BEEN REVISED, IT WAS NOW 1 0 3 6 A, WE MIGHT WANNA SAY LIKE MOST CURRENT VERSION, WE, WE COULD ALWAYS ADD THAT.
SO YOU, BUT UM, SHOULD WE PUT JUST AN, OR WE COULD SAY LIKE, WITH THE MOST, UM, BASICALLY POSSIBLE WITH THE MOST CURRENT VERSION OF FAA ADVISORY CIRCLE CODE 1 0 3 6.
UM, AND THEN ON 16 32, 20 OR 30 ALONG JUST PERFECT SEGUE INTO THIS, UM, IT REFERS TO FA ORDER 7 1 1 OH DASH 99, WHICH WAS CANCELED IN JULY OF 2014.
AND THAT SHOULD BE AC 90 DASH 66 LATEST VERSION OF GOOD CATCH.
MARK, MARK ASHTON BROUGHT THAT UP.
UM, GREAT WHEN THE PUBLIC
[01:30:05]
BAD.RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S JUST SAYING YOU CAN'T INTERFERE.
UM, AND THAT YOU HAVE TO YIELD RIGHT OF WAY.
WHICH, THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD SUGGEST, AND I DIDN'T JUST ADD IT 'CAUSE I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IT, IS, UM, IT MIGHT BE MORE APPROPRIATE TO SPECIFY THAT, UM, MUST FOLLOW, UM, 9 1 1 13 FOR RIGHT OF WAY RULES.
YOU SAID IT DOESN'T SPECIFY SMALL UAS IF IT SPECIFIED SMALL UAS THEN YIELDING RIGHT OF WAY IS CONSISTENT WITH BEST PRACTICE.
SINCE IT DOESN'T SPECIFY THAT THE UNCURED AIRCRAFT BE SMALL, AND I HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WORKING ON UNCURED CARAVANS, UM, THE REQUIREMENT ON THOSE AIRCRAFT IS THAT THEY COMPLY WITH 9 8 1 1 13, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER AIRPLANE.
NOT THAT THEY YIELD RIGHT OF WAY TO ALL OTHER AIRCRAFT.
THERE ARE INSTANCES WHEN THEY HAVE RIGHT OF WAY.
UM, SO THAT, THAT WAS MY, LIKE, I WANNA TALK ABOUT IT.
UM, I DON'T THINK THAT WITH THIS IS ALSO SOMETHING WHERE THE FEDERAL REGULATIONS ARE EVOLVING RAPIDLY.
AND NO MATTER WHAT WE DO HERE, IT'S GONNA BE OUT OF DATE
UM, SO I THINK IF, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THIS WAS CLEARLY WRITTEN WITH LIKE SMALL UAS AND LIKE HOBBY DRONES AND LIKE QUAD COPTERS IN MIND, UM, THAT'S NOT WHAT UAS IS, RIGHT? MM-HMM
I MEAN, WE DID ADDRESS THAT DEFINITION EARLIER.
SO THIS IS KINDA WHAT I, I THINK WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD DISCUSS, LIKE DO WE WANT TO TRY TO COVER ALL OF OUR BASES HERE? DO WE WANT TO POINT TO OTHER THINGS? UM, I THINK, I THINK WE DO.
WHAT IF WE, THEY'RE WORKING ON, YOU KNOW, MICROPHONE'S OFF IF THEY'RE WORKING ON CARAVAN UUA S IS, WE HAVE CARAVANS OPERATED BY FEDEX COMING IN HERE AND IT TOOK US 30 YEARS TO REVISE THIS DOCUMENT.
IF IT TAKES ANOTHER 30 YEARS, THEY'RE GONNA BE OPERATING IT.
BOTH FEDEX AND UPS ARE WORKING ON 'EM.
SO
SO UAS OR DRONE MUST NOT INTERFERE WITH OPERATIONS, THE AIRPORT.
AND MAYBE JUST INSERT IF REQUIRED, UM, BY REGULATIONS OR IF REQUIRED MUST YIELD RIGHT AWAY TO OTHER AIRCRAFT AS SPECIFIED IN I GUESS THAT 'CAUSE THERE FOR A WHILE IT'S GONNA BE REQUIRED FOR SOME MAYBE, WELL, FOR SMALL UASI THINK THAT INTENTION IS TO RETAIN THAT, DEFER THAT, YOU KNOW, BEING THE, BEING DEFERENTIAL TO A, A LARGER AIRCRAFT CRUDE OR UN CREWED, RIGHT? LIKE IF YOU'RE, THE BREAKDOWN IS, IS REALLY FALLING AROUND WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE EQUIPPED WITH A DSB OUT.
AND IF, AND SMALL UAS WOULD BE A DSB IN THAT WOULD THEN BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DEFERRING TO ANY A DSB OUT AIRCRAFT AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY'D BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DEFERRING TO A LARGER AIRCRAFT THAT WAS REFUSING TO PARTICIPATE IN A DSB IS AN OPEN QUESTION RIGHT NOW.
SO I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S A JUST A LOT OF ROOM FOR MOVEMENT HERE.
SO I, I THINK LIKE THE STATEMENT THAT A UAS OR DRONE MUST NOT INTERFERE WITH APPARITIONS AT THE AIRPORT THAT YES, LIKE OF COURSE, RIGHT? AND THEN WE COULD SAY AND MUST FOLLOW, UH, RIGHT OF WAY RULES AS APPROPRIATE FOR ITS OPERATION.
UM, CAN YOU WRITE IT EXACTLY LIKE THAT? YES.
OR FAA LEGAL NEEDS TO WITHDRAW THEIR OPINION SAYING THAT C ONLY IS ABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY HUMAN EYEBALLS.
BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY REASON THAT WE CAN'T APPLY THAT UNIVERSALLY TO EVERYTHING AS IT IS TODAY, IS THAT SOMEBODY IN FAA LEGAL SAID YOU CAN ONLY SEE WITH A HUMAN EYEBALL.
UM, SO ONE OF THOSE TWO THINGS NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO 91 1 13.
THERE'S ALSO AN ENTIRE RULEMAKING ACTIVITY ONGOING RIGHT NOW FOR BEYOND VISUAL LINE OF SIGHT OPERATIONS.
UM, SO WE'RE EXPECTING TO SEE A PART 1 0 8 NPRM, UH, HOPEFULLY
[01:35:01]
IN Q1SO, BUT THAT'S GONNA CHANGE, THAT'S GONNA DRAMATICALLY CHANGE THE LANDSCAPE AND THE RIGHT OF WAY RULES AS WELL.
AND THAT'S WHERE THIS QUESTION OF A DSB OUT PARTICIPATION THAT'S CONTINGENT TO RETAIN YOUR RIGHT OF WAY AS A MANNED AIRCRAFT IS GONNA BE ADDRESSED IN THAT RULE.
THAT'S WHY, LIKE, IF, IF IT WAS ALREADY SETTLED, THEN WE COULD POINT TO IT.
BUT, UM, BUT IT'S NOT, THIS IS WHAT I SPEND MOST OF MY TIME BANGING MY HEAD AGAINST IS THE FACT THAT THESE RULES DON'T EXIST YET.
SO, SO I WROTE DOWN, UM, SO THAT THIS WOULD, A UAS OR DRONE MUST NOT INTERFERE WITH OPERATIONS AT THE AIRPORT AND MUST FOLLOW RIGHT OF AWAY RULES APPROPRIATE TO ITS OPERATIONS.
UH, AND THEN THAT'S IT EXCEPT FOR THE PENALTY OR VIOLATION CYA AT THE END HERE, WHICH IS FROM THE CITY.
SO WOULD YOU LIKE US TO MAKE THOSE REVISIONS AS, AS WE'RE CHAIR TONIGHT, WE'LL GO THROUGH THE TAPE ONE BY ONE AND MAKE THAT, OR DO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE MAKING A REVISION? I THINK IT WOULD BE A WHOLE LOT EASIER FOR ME TO DO IT BASED OFF OF MY NOTES.
AND THEN WE CAN CROSSCHECK IT.
I DON'T WANNA DUMP THAT ON YOU GUYS.
THERE ARE A COUPLE OF PLACES SPECIFICALLY AROUND THE APPEALS PROCESS AND THE PERMITTING THAT I FEEL LIKE, UM, THE CITY ATTORNEY WILL PROBABLY, WE NEED SOMETHING FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
'CAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE.
UM, THE REST OF THE DOCUMENT, I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE GOOD AGREEMENT AROUND INTENT, IF NOT VERBIAGE.
AND CAN I, I CAN PACKAGE THAT INTO SOMETHING THAT GETS US, YOU KNOW, CLOSE.
UM, WITH THAT SAID, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S, WE'RE NOT LIKE DONE, DONE TONIGHT.
THIS WAS, THIS WAS GREAT GUYS.
UM, SO WHAT, UM, SO WE'LL GET THE REVISED VERSION THAT HAS TO GET, WE'LL GET SOMETHING FROM, CAN WE GET SOMETHING FROM THE CITY IN TIME TO HAVE IT IZED FOR OUR FEBRUARY MEETING? I CAN, I CAN ASK ABOUT JUST THOSE, UM, BECAUSE IT'S ONLY, IT'S TWO PARAGRAPHS, RIGHT? JUST THOSE TWO SECTIONS YEAH.
IN REGARDS TO THE, KINDA THE ROLE OF, UH, OR OPTIONS FOR THE AIRPORT COMMISSION.
WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH TO KINDA GET YOU GOING ON? THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE PIECES THAT I DON'T FEEL LIKE I HAVE.
UM, SO IF WE COULD GET THOSE FROM THE CITY COMMISSION, I CAN CAPTURE THE REST OF OUR CONVERSATION FROM MY NOTES.
UM, I, I'M VERY COMFORTABLE DOING THAT IN TIME TO GET US BACK ON THE AGENDA FOR FEBRUARY TO POTENTIALLY APPROVE, TO MOVE TO THE NEXT STEP IF WE CAN GET IT FROM THE CITY IN THE SAME TIMEFRAME.
LEMME SEE IF I CAN GET THAT TURNED AROUND, UM, AND GET SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT.
AND THEN, UM, IF YOU WANNA JUST MODIFY WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY GOT THERE.
AND WE'LL KIND OF USE THE SAME DOCUMENT.
IF THERE ARE ANY CHANGES FROM THE STATE ATTORNEY, WE CAN PUT THOSE IN, UH, THAT'S GREAT.
AND THEN THERE'LL BE ANOTHER REVIEW, FULL REVIEW FOR THEM WITH ALL THE ITEMS. OKAY.
I KNOW THIS IS, THIS IS A LOT, BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY VALUABLE.
[COMMITTEE COMMENT]
AT COUNCIL UPDATE.WE DO NOT YET HAVE OUR NEW CITY COUNCIL LIAISON, SO WE'RE GONNA, UNLESS SOMETHING WAS PROVIDED TO ONE OF YOU IN ADVANCE, WE DON'T HAVE ONE, IF THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, DO WE HAVE AN AD, ANY AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE REPORTS? YEAH, I'D LIKE TO, UH, PROVIDE YOU FOLKS WITH, UH, UPDATE, UM, FORMER LIFETIME, ALMOST
AND I MET WITH, UM, CARL, UH, DIETRICH JUMP ARROW, UH, THE BEGINNING OF DECEMBER.
AND, UH, WE DISCUSSED WITH HIM THE PROCESS FOR, UM, LOOKING INTO A POTENTIAL LEASE OR LICENSE AGREEMENT ON OPEN PROPERTY AT THE AIRPORT FOR, UM, THE FUTURE OF HIS POTENTIAL OPERATION AT PETALUMA.
AND, UH, HAD A GREAT DISCUSSION.
SOUNDS LIKE A DECENT BUSINESS PLAN.
AND, UM, UM, I THINK HE APPRECIATED THE INPUT AND FEEDBACK THAT BARRY AND I PROVIDED TO HIM.
UM, LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING CARL, UM, WORK WITH US IN THE FUTURE.
IT SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT POTENTIAL OPERATION FOR THE AIRPORT.
AND OUR PRIMARY RECOMMENDATION WAS THAT HE TOUCH BASE WITH YOU, DAN YES.
ON THE POTENTIAL FOR EITHER DEVELOPING A LICENSE AGREEMENT OR, OR A, UM, UM, A LEASE AGREEMENT LONG MM-HMM
AND WE DISCUSSED WITH HIM CONCERNS THAT NEIGHBORS MIGHT HAVE WITH, UH, OPERATIONS CLOSE TO THE EDGE OF SKY RANCH DRIVE.
AND I KNOW LAST TIME WE DID THE, OUR LAST HANGAR PROJECT, UH, THERE WAS A CONCERN, ALTHOUGH I DON'T THINK THE
[01:40:01]
NEIGHBORS VOICED IT, UM, ABOUT, UH, LOSING SOME OF THE VIEW OF SONOMA MOUNTAIN.SO
SO ANYWAY, UH, CARL THOUGHT, OKAY, SINGLE STORY HANGER, NOT TWO STORY.
AND, UH, SO I LOOK FORWARD TO, UH, UM, GETTING THAT PROCESS THROUGH.
AND ALSO, I, I BELIEVE AT THE LAST MEETING, DAN, YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE WERE TWO PEOPLE BESIDES WHOMEVER WE HAVE AS THE, UH, REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE COUNCIL THAT BARRY AND I OUGHT TO MEET WITH.
AND I DON'T RECALL WHO THOSE NAMES WERE.
DO YOU RECALL THAT? UH, WE DO HAVE, I BELIEVE, TWO NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS, UM, AND WE'LL GET YOU THE NAMES.
ONE OF THEM COULD BE EVEN SERVING ON THE AIRPORT COMMISSION, I DON'T KNOW YET, BUT THERE, THERE ARE TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS.
AND THEN, UM, DID YOU SPEAK WITH THE NEWEST, UM, CLERK? UM, WHAT WAS, WHAT'S THE CLERK'S NAME? YEAH, CORLEY.
UH, I'D HAVE TO CHECK MY NOTES.
COULD YOU SEND THAT NAMES? BUT YEAH, I'LL SEND THAT TO YOU AND THEN I'LL PASS THEM ON.
AND I, AND I BELIEVE YOU ALREADY SPOKE TO JESSE G***H, THE, THE NEW FINANCE DIRECTOR.
SAY AGAIN? UH, JESSE G***H, THE, UH, THE NEW, UM, FINANCE DIRECTOR THAT REPLACED, I THINK WE MET WITH HER.
BUT WE'LL, WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK TO MAKE SURE YOUR LIST IS DONE TODAY.
AND I'LL CONFIRM WITH BARRY, 'CAUSE HE'S LEADING THE EFFORT ON MAKING THE CONTACTS AND, AND ALL OF THAT.
ANY OTHER SECURITY REPORTS? OH, AND EITHER I'LL JUST PASS ON.
CARL WAS IMPRESSED WITH YOUR ENCYCLOPEDIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE AIRPORT
I, I KNOW WHAT GOING THROUGH THAT STUFF IS LIKE, SO YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB.
NO, IT'S, UH, IT'S BEEN A TEAM EFFORT AND IT'S GOOD TO, UH, GOOD TO DO ONCE IN A WHILE.
UM, ANY GENERAL COMMISSIONER COMMENTS?
[STAFF COMMENT]
ALL RIGHT, DAN, YOUR TURN.I'LL TRY TO MAKE THIS AS SHORT AND PAINLESS AS POSSIBLE.
SO JUST WANTED TO CHECK IN ON THE FINANCES.
UM, SO FAR THIS WHERE WE ARE TO THE END OF NOVEMBER, WE HAD ABOUT 800,000 ROUGHLY IN, UH, INCOME AND ABOUT JUST ABOUT A MILLION IN EXPENDITURES THAT ALSO INCLUDE THE, UM, THE $500,000, $510,000, UH, HANGAR PAYMENT.
WE'RE DOING PRETTY WELL THROUGH THE YEARS SO FAR HERE.
AND AS WE ROUND THROUGH SPRING, WE'LL KIND OF GET A BETTER PICTURE OF HOW WE'RE DOING.
I'M GONNA BE CLOSING OUT THE, UH, FISCAL YEAR, BUT WE ARE, DO WE HAVE ONE, UM, LOAN PAYMENT LEFT IN 20 AND THAT PAYS US OFF? YES.
WE HAVE ONE MORE LOAN PAYMENT NEXT NOVEMBER.
SO ONCE, ONCE WE'RE THROUGH THAT, WE'RE KIND OF HOME FREE ON THAT.
UM, AND THEN, UM, I DIDN'T HAVE MUCH, UM, OPERATIONAL WISE OR OTHERWISE.
UM, ONLY UPDATE, UH, AS FAR AS PROJECTS OR, UH, THINGS, WE, UM, WE FINALLY DID, UH, PAINTED THE TAXI LANE, UH, TAXIWAY, UH, ALPHA.
SO I DUNNO IF YOU NOTICED THAT OR NOT, BUT FRESH PAINT ON THE TAXIWAY.
UM, SO THAT WITH THE NEW WHOLE BARS LOOKS REALLY GOOD OUT THERE.
SO WE'RE OVERALL, YOU KNOW, FOR WHAT WE HAVE, UM, IT'S LOOKING, LOOKING GREAT.
AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE, UM, TAXIWAY AND TAXI LANE PROJECTS THAT APPEAR TO BE MOVING FORWARD FOR, UM, APPROVAL THIS SUMMER FOR FUNDING.
AND THEN EITHER BEING COMPLETED, UH, SUMMER, FALL, UH, OR MAYBE EARLY SPRING IS GOOD FALL AND MEAT HUNT IS THE ENTITY DESIGN WORK, CROP BUILDING.
UM, AND WE'LL LIKELY BE HELPING UP WITH THE CONSTRUCTION SERVICES, BUT THE ACTUAL, UM, BIDDER IS TBD FOR THE, THE CONSTRUCTION.
AND THAT'LL BID OUT IN THE SPRING CONTINGENT ON FA FUNDING.
AND LIKE WE TALKED BEFORE, WE SPLIT IT, UH, KIND OF IN A HALF ON EACH PROJECT.
WE'VE GOT THE BASE BID BASED ON THE MONEY THAT WE'VE BEEN ALMOST PRETTY MUCH PRE-APPROVED FOR, FOR THE FAA.
AND THEN THE SECOND PORTION IS THE, OUR BEST.
UM, YOU KNOW, UH, TRYING TO COMPLETE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BASED ON OUR ORIGINAL SCOPE, UM, WHICH MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE, BUT WE'RE GONNA TRY ANYWAY.
SO IF IT COMES THROUGH, IT COMES THROUGH.
IF IT DOESN'T, WE'LL DO THE MAX WE CAN DO WITH THE MONEY WE GET.
UM, AND THEN JUST FINALLY, UH, JUST A REMINDER, WE DO HAVE THAT PORTA-POTTY THAT'S SET UP ON A ROW NINE.
ANYBODY ELSE THAT WANTS TO USE ON THAT PART, PART OF THE AIRPORT AS A, A TRIAL, IF WE DON'T GET MUCH USE, WE PROBABLY WILL DISCONTINUE IT, BUT WE WANNA DO A SIX MONTH TRIAL TO SEE IF THERE WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, INTEREST IN, IN USABILITY FOR THAT.
SO ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT PROJECTS, OPERATIONS, ANYTHING BEFORE I GIVE IT?
[01:45:01]
YES.I JUST WANTED ON THAT HANGAR, THE HANG OVER HERE.
I JUST GOT AN EMAIL TODAY FROM THE DESIGN.
THEY'RE JUST GOING THROUGH PIECE BY PIECE THROUGH THE BID DOCS.
AND THERE WAS A QUESTION THAT CAME UP ABOUT, UM, GUTTERS.
WE'RE JUST, THAT'S THE LATEST THAT CAME THROUGH TODAY.
HOPEFULLY THE ENGINEER CAN RESPOND BACK ON SPECS FOR THE GUTTER, BUT LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT IS WAY EASIER TO BUILD THAN IT IS TO REBUILD.
AND SO WE'RE HAVING TO GO THROUGH AND EVERY ASPECT OF THAT HANGER HAS TO BE ANALYZED AND IT HAS TO BE PUT IN THAT, BECAUSE IF IT IS DAMAGED OR HAS HAS TO BE ALTERED, IT HAS TO BE PART OF THAT BID.
UM, YEAH, SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.
UM, WE WERE HOPING TO BE ALREADY OUT TO BID, UM, BUT THE, I GUESS THE GOAL WOULD BE WITHIN THE NEXT 30 DAYS IF WE CAN GET THAT DONE.
UH, BUSINESS BUSINESSES THAT
AND WE'RE HOPING FOR MORE TO TRY TO GET THAT BID AMOUNT DOWN.
OBVIOUSLY THIS IS GONNA BE, UH, WE'RE GONNA RECOUP A HUNDRED PERCENT OF OUR EXPENDITURES ON THIS, BUT WE DON'T WANNA SPEND MORE THAN WE NEED TO.
SO WE'RE GONNA TRY TO GET THE BEST, BEST DEAL, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR EVERYBODY INVOLVED.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT, UM, HAVE YOU HEARD BACK FROM, I'M SORRY? HAVE YOU HEARD BACK FROM
WE GAVE THEM, I, I DO, UM, I DO ADMIT WE, WE GAVE THEM THE WAIT LIST A LITTLE BIT LATER.
SO IT WAS A COUPLE WEEKS AFTER A MEETING, TWO, THREE WEEKS THAT WE ACTUALLY GAVE THE LIST TO THEM.
SO THEY GOT IT FAIRLY RECENTLY.
I SENT ALONG WITH THAT LIST, I SENT KIND OF THE, I GUESS THE BEST KNOWLEDGE WE HAVE BASED ON THE LAST FIVE YEARS OF DEMAND, WHO OUR CUSTOMER IS, WHO THE PEOPLE ON THAT WAIT LIST ARE TRENDS, UH, NEARBY AIRPORTS, TENANTS THAT COULD BE INTERESTED IN, IN RELOCATING, UM, TO THE BEST OR 'CAUSE IT, WHEN IT CAN COME DOWN TO IT.
WE DON'T HAVE MUCH OF A LIST TO SHOW MM-HMM
UM, AND I THINK EVERYBODY THAT'S BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT SO FAR AGREES THAT THE, THE LARGE HANGERS WILL BE VERY EASY TO SELL.
UM, IN FACT, ONE OF, YOU KNOW, EVEN JUMP ARROW WOULD PROBABLY BE INTERESTED IN ONE OF 'EM.
UH, THE REAL QUESTION COMES DOWN TO THE, THE T HANGERS.
UH, I THINK THAT'S THE, THE ONE THAT WE JUST DON'T KNOW.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY OF THOSE COULD WE BUILD? AND THEN THE BIGGEST, THE BIGGEST QUESTION IS GOING TO BE WHAT IS, WHAT NUMBERS ARE WE DEALING WITH? SO I CAME UP WITH SOME ROUGH FROM ROUGH NUMBERS AND I THINK WE COULD PUT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 12 TO 14 MILLION, UH, TOGETHER IN SOME SORT OF A LOAN PACKAGE WITHOUT TOO MUCH TROUBLE BASED ON OUR CURRENT, UM, SPENDING ON THE 2004, UM, LOAN PAYMENT.
AND THEN JUST MAYBE SOME OTHER FUNDS THAT COME FROM, SAY, ONE OF THE LARGE HANGERS.
SO I, I THINK IN THAT 12 TO 13 MILLION RANGE, WE, WE HAVE NO TROUBLE GETTING THAT.
THE PROBLEM IS THIS PROJECT WILL BE BIGGER THAN THAT.
AND SO THE QUESTION WILL BE HOW MUCH CAN WE GET FROM THE FAA ON RAMP TAXI LANE WORK, RIGHT? HOW MUCH CAN WE GET POSSIBLY FROM CALTRANS ON A, ON THE HANGAR SIDE? 'CAUSE CALTRANS DOES INVEST IN THESE PROJECTS PERIODICALLY.
SO THOSE ARE THE BIG QUESTIONS, BUT, UM, I THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH AT THE CORE THAT WE CAN GET A LOT DONE.
I THINK, UH, THE NEXT, THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE, AS LONG AS THESE NUMBERS SORT OF MAKE SENSE IN A WAY, UH, IT MIGHT BE PRUDENT, ESPECIALLY WITH SOME OF THE BIL FUNDS THAT ARE STILL GONNA BE REMAINING AFTER OUR PROJECTS NEXT YEAR.
UH, WE MIGHT WANNA LOOK AT GETTING THAT DESIGN OUT THE WAY AND ACTUALLY GOING FOR THE DESIGN.
UM, BECAUSE THAT IS ONE OF THE LEAST EXPENSIVE PARTS OF IT, AND THERE IS MONEY THAT WILL BE DISAPPEARING.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DESIGN COST WOULD BE.
THAT'S SOMETHING MAYBE THE, THE, UM, FEASIBILITY STUDY, UH, FOLKS COULD KIND OF GIVE US A BALLPARK ON.
UM, BUT THAT IF, IF THERE'S ENOUGH, UM, IF THIS LOOKS LIKE A PRO, A PRUDENT PROJECT TO SORT OF CONTINUE MOVING TOWARDS, THEN THAT MAY BE SOMETHING WE WANNA DO, UH, IS PUT THAT, UH, 250,000 OR SO TOWARDS A DESIGN, SO WE'RE SH WE'RE, UH, SHOVEL READY AND THEN WHO KNOWS WHAT KIND OF FUNDS ARE GONNA BECOME AVAILABLE, UH, DOWN THE LINE FOR, FOR ALL SORTS OF THINGS.
SO I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT DIRECTION WE'RE MOVING ON THIS.
UM, AT THE UH, CHRISTMAS PARTY, I WAS TOLD THAT THE HANGAR DOOR ON THE PETALUMA PILOT TRAINING CENTER DID A SIMILAR THING TO THIS 18 C
[01:50:02]
AND I'M JUST WONDERING, HAVE WE LOOKED AT PUTTING SOME KIND OF PERMANENT STOPS ON THEM SO THAT THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE? THAT'S A GOOD, GOOD QUESTION THERE.I BELIEVE THE NEWEST ITERATION OF THE HIGH FOLD SYSTEM HAS A BETTER STOP PROTECTION.
UM, IT'S A, AN ACTUAL MOTOR ASSISTED SENSOR.
UM, SO IT ACTUALLY SENSES THE, THE TORQUE OF THE MOTOR AND LESS OF THE, UM, LIKE MECHANICAL BREAKAWAY, UH, FORCE THAT IT CURRENTLY RELIES ON.
IT'S LIKE A SHEER FORCE THAT'S KIND OF A RELYING ON RIGHT NOW AND LIMITS SWITCHES, UM, ON THE, ON THE DOOR.
SO I THINK THE NEWEST VERSION IS SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER, BUT YOU STILL HAVE THE, THE SAME PROBLEMS YOU DO WITH A, A BI-FOLD DOOR.
SO THAT IS KINDA THE NATURE OF THEM.
WELL, SHOULDN'T WE INVESTIGATE SOMETHING SO THAT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN? I MEAN, THAT'S BEEN A RATHER EXPENSIVE AND TIME CONSUMING PROJECT.
YEAH, SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE IS, UM, WE, WE'VE SWITCHED COMPANIES.
SO WE WE'RE, WE'RE WORKING WITH THE COMPANY AT A ANOTHER COMPANY OUTTA SACRAMENTO AREA THAT UM, HAS BETTER EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE WITH THESE, THESE DOORS.
AND THEY'RE HOPEFULLY GONNA HELP US CATCH THESE ISSUES SOONER.
WE ALSO DON'T LIFT THE DOORS ALL THE WAY.
SO WE'VE INSTRUCTED ALL THE TENANTS AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE A LIMIT MARKED ON THE SIDE.
DON'T RAISE THE DOOR MORE THAN THIS UNLESS YOU HAVE TO, BECAUSE IN MOST CASES IT'S MOSTLY PEOPLE AND SMALL AIRPLANES THAT ARE COMING IN AND OUT OF THESE TALL HANGERS.
SO BY, BY MANUALLY STOPPING AT A CERTAIN POINT, UM, THE, THE, THE, UH, RISK IS REDUCED.
UM, AND THEN JUST, UM, BETTER INSPECTION OF THE CABLES.
THE CABLES SEEMED TO BE THE, THE WEAK LINK.
AND WE JUST HAD, WE HAD ONE SNAP JUST, UH, ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF AGO AND WE REPLACED THAT.
SO THE, THE GOOD NEWS IS THERE'S REDUNDANCY AND THERE ARE NEW PROCEDURES.
WE HAVE NEW INSPECTORS AND I THINK WE'RE SLOWLY LEARNING WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T, BUT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT SOMETHING CAN'T HAPPEN, A CABLE THAT THAT GOES UP ON ITSELF.
SO IF IT'S, IT'S STARTS TO COME DOWN BUT THEN ROLLS BACK UP, UNLESS SOMEBODY'S WATCHING THAT, THERE'S NO REAL WAY TO PREVENT THAT.
IT JUST, IT'S GOING, YOU CAN'T PUT LIMIT STOPS, MECHANICAL STOPS.
YOU WOULD HAVE TO PUT A LIMIT ON EVERY SINGLE WINCH AND THERE'S SIX OF 'EM AND IT'S NOT PART OF THE DESIGN.
SO, WELL, WOULDN'T THAT BE LESS EXPENSIVE THAN REPAIRING THE DOOR?
SO WE ARE ACTUALLY SURPASSED 20 YEARS.
SO SHOULD THEN, I THINK THEY MIGHT BE END OF LIFE FOR SOME OF THEM, BUT WE'RE GONNA TRY TO GET THE MOST USE WE CAN OUTTA THEM.
I, I THINK IF I MAY, I THINK THE, THE QUESTION IS AROUND, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO THAT WOULD IMPROVE UPON THE MANUFACTURER'S DESIGN FOR THESE DOORS THAT WOULD ADDRESS THIS ISSUE? RIGHT? LIKE AIRCRAFT MECHANICS TEND TO BE A, YOU KNOW, HANDS-ON SORT OF BUNCH, RIGHT? SO
UM, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, INCURRING ADDITIONAL UNNECESSARY LIABILITY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR THE SYSTEMS, I THINK IT MIGHT BE WORTH GOING OFF SCRIPT A LITTLE BIT HERE.
IF, IF THAT'S WHAT I'M WELL YEAH.
HEARING, I MEAN, WE SHOULD MAKE THOSE DOORS SO THEY DON'T DO THAT.
IT SEEMS, SEEMS LIKE A MECHANICAL SOLUTION SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO THAT.
NOT, NOT RELY ON SOMEBODY'S EYES.
'CAUSE WE ALL KNOW HOW THAT WORKS.
UH, I KNOW WE'VE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT A DIFFERENT DOOR TYPE REPLACING THESE, AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE BETTER OPTION IS AT A CERTAIN POINT THEY'RE JUST GONNA NEED TO BE REPLACED.
AND WE WOULD DO IT MAYBE WITH A DIFFERENT TYPE.
THERE ARE DOORS THAT FOLD INTO THE HANGER THAT ARE AVAILABLE.
YOU DO LOSE A LITTLE BIT FOR THE HANGER, BUT THAT IS A, A MUCH MORE, I WOULD SAY RELIABLE.
UM, BUT THEY ALL HAVE THEIR COST, RIGHT? SO THEY'RE VERY EXPENSIVE, THEY'RE VERY BIG.
UM, BUT THEY'RE VERY POPULAR WITH PILOTS UNFORTUNATELY, AND PILOTS LIKE BIFOLD DOORS.
SO WHAT, WHAT IS GONNA BE THE ALTERNATIVE AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS GREAT DESIGN COMING UP THAT ARE WE GONNA LOOK FOR ALTERNATIVES IN THE HANGAR DESIGNERS THAT DESERVE BETTER DESIGN? I GUESS THAT'S PART OF IT FOR LONG ON, ON THE NEXT PROJECT, BUT YOU ALSO SAID THEY'RE GONNA BE END OF LIFE ON THESE.
IS THERE A BETTER SYSTEM THAT'S AVAILABLE THAT'S GONNA SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVE APPROVAL, RELIABILITY? WE'RE COMING UP ON
[01:55:01]
THE END OF LIFE PERHAPS INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR THEM TO FAIL BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE STARTING TO FAIL NOW.I THINK YOU'RE GONNA BE OPTIMISTIC FOR 25 YEARS.
IF WE'RE AT 20 AND THEY'RE ALL STARTING TO FAIL AND HAVE PROBLEMS, ARE WE NOT BETTER JUST LOOKING AND SAYING, WELL, END OF LIFE IS SHORTER THAN WE EXPECTED AND FINE AND START IMPLEMENTING A BETTER SYSTEM? ABSOLUTELY.
THE QUESTION IS WHAT DO WE WANNA DROP? DO WE WANNA DROP THE TAXI WAVE PROJECT? DO WE WANNA DROP THE TAXI LANE PROJECT? SO EACH OF THESE PROJECTS IS ABOUT A HUNDRED AND $150,000 OF OUR FUNDS GOING TOWARDS THOSE PROJECTS.
WE WOULD HAVE TO CURTAIL THAT AND, AND SPEND, WE COULD DO IT.
UM, I JUST, I GUESS MY, MY CONCERN IS SPENDING TOO MUCH INVESTMENT NOW ON FOUR HANGERS THAT ONLY REALISTICALLY CAN BRING IN $12,000 A MONTH.
THAT'S IF EVERY SINGLE HANGER IS COMMERCIAL, WHICH THEY ARE NOT.
SO IT JUST, TO ME, IT SEEMS LIKE, UH, IT'S A PRETTY BIG INVESTMENT FOR SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAVE A GOOD ROE.
SO, BUT IF WE INVEST A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS, LET'S ASSUME THAT THAT'S 25,000 HANGERS.
WHAT, WHAT IS GONNA BE THE LONG-TERM RELIABILITY OF, BECAUSE IF, IF, IF NOW WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS MAYBE GETTING A COUPLE OF YEARS, AND IF ONE OF THOSE DOORS GOES DOWN, HOW LONG DID IT TAKE TO GET REPAIRED? I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT SIX MONTHS TURNAROUND TIME, THAT'S 12 OR, OR WHATEVER EVER SIX MONTHS OF RENT THAT WE'RE NOT GETTING OR, AND THEN THAT THAT CUSTOMER WITH THAT BIG PLANE HAS PARKED IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND MAYBE DOESN'T COME BACK.
AND SO IT'S NOT ONLY THE, THE LOST REVENUE IN SIX MONTHS, BUT IT'S ALSO THE TAXES FROM THE BIGGER PLANE THAT WE HAD TO GET.
SO, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND WE'RE NOT FLUSH WITH CASH, BUT IF WE'RE LOOKING AT POTENTIALLY THESE ARE ONLY GONNA BE LOST IN A COUPLE OF TWO, THREE MORE YEARS AND WE'RE PUSHING THE LIMIT, GOT BETTER TO DO IT NOW, AND THEN WE'RE DONE AND THAT GIVES US 10, 15 YEARS OF RELIABILITY.
I, I MEAN, AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S GONNA DO THAT, BUT I GUESS YOU HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, PENNY WISE POUND FULL LOOK SHORT TERM, YEAH, IT'S EXPENSIVE, BUT THE LONGER TERM IT MAINTAINS THOSE HANGERS BEING LEASED AND LEASED WITH THE PLANE AIRCRAFT WE WANT IN THERE, THE BUSINESSES WE WANT IN THERE GENERATING REVENUE.
UM, AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE BIG PICTURE.
I JUST, JUST TO PUT IN PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S ONLY ABOUT A HUNDRED AND THIS IS BEST CASE SCENARIO, WE'LL GET 'EM ALL RENTED OUT, ALL COMMERCIAL, THAT'S 144,000 A YEAR.
AND IF WE'RE PUTTING A $500,000 INVESTMENT INTO THOSE HANGERS, JUST THOSE FOUR, IT, YOU KNOW, JUST FOR CLARITY'S SAKE, YOU'RE ESTIMATING A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS PER HANGER OR A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR THE PROJECT OF ALL OF THE HANGERS? I WOULD SAY, UH, A BIT OVER, I WOULD SAY CLOSER TO $125,000 PER HANGER DOOR.
I THINK THAT I MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THAT PREVIOUSLY AS WELL.
SO THAT WOULD, BECAUSE WE WOULDN'T DO 'EM IF WE'RE GOING TO SAY OVER REPLACE 'EM ALL, WE WOULDN'T DO 'EM ONE AT A TIME.
I MEAN, YOU COULD DO THAT, BUT THAT MEANS FOUR DIFFERENT BIDS AND THAT'S NOT, TENDS TO BE THE WAY THE CITY LIKES TO DO THINGS.
SO WE WOULD DO 'EM ALL AT ONCE.
AND SO THAT'D BE A MUCH BIGGER PROJECT.
SO OF THOSE FOUR, ARE, ARE ANY OF THESE OPEN RIGHT NOW? ARE ANY OF THEM OPEN? NO, THEY'RE ALL SECURED AND THEY'RE, AND THREE ARE FUNCTIONAL.
AND I WILL SAY THE, THE ONE THAT IS NOT FUNCTIONAL, THE TENANT WAS OFFERED A FUNCTIONAL HANGAR.
THEY'RE CURRENTLY USING THAT HANGAR FOR ITEMS THAT THEY CAN'T MOVE IN AND OUT THEIR, THEIR, UH, PEDESTRIAN DOOR.
BUT THEY WERE OFFERED THAT AS AN ALTERNATIVE AND THEY OPTED NOT TO.
WELL I'M, SO, SO YEAH, I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.
I JUST, IT'S, WELL IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WOULD BE WORTH HAVING A REALLY SOLID UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE EITHER FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO THE EXISTING SYSTEM IF SOME, IF THERE IS A COMPANY OUT THERE THAT RETROFITS OR TO ACTUALLY HAVE LIKE, I DON'T WANNA SAY QUOTES, BUT ROMS OF WHAT THIS WOULD TAKE TO REPLACE THESE.
AND I, I, YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE, LIKE, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANNA DROP $500,000 ALL AT ONCE, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE END OF THE LEASE PAYMENTS, UM, WHERE YOU COULD POTENTIALLY STRUCTURE ONE, ONE BID THAT IS PHASED OVER TIME.
EVEN, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO JUST 'CAUSE IT'S ALL ONE BID DOESN'T MEAN IT ALL HAS TO HAPPEN IN THE SAME MONTH.
IT KIND OF DOES THOUGH BECAUSE, UH, TEND TEND TO BE, WE GIVE THE CONTRACTOR A TIME PERIOD
[02:00:01]
TO RIGHT.BUT IT COULD BE A, IT COULD BE A FIVE YEAR TIME PERIOD AND YOU DO ONE A YEAR.
AND LIKE, BUT ONCE AGAIN, SO WE'VE HEARD BACK, WE TRIED TO DO THIS BEFORE.
SO WE TRY TO DO THIS WITH THE ROOFS AND THE, AND THE CIP TEAM SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY DON'T LIKE TO DO THIS MOSTLY BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GO TO COUNCIL FIVE TIMES.
WELL, NO, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS IF YOU GOT IT ALL APPROVED AS ONE CONTRACT THAT THE CONTRACT HAD BUILT INTO AT A STAGE DEPLOYMENT OF CAPITAL, THEN THAT'S ONE APPROVAL.
I I AGREE THAT THAT WOULD BE THE WAY I WOULD DO IT.
THAT'S NOT THE WAY THE CITY WANTS TO DO IT.
WELL, YEAH, MAYBE WE HAVE A NEW LIAISON, MAYBE WE HAVE A NEW ADVOCATE, WE HAVE A NEW CITY COUNCIL, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO I, I THINK IT WOULD, I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO, AND, AND, AND A LOT OF US ARE NEW, RIGHT? LIKE, WE HAVEN'T BEEN THROUGH THIS BEFORE, SO MAYBE IT'S JUST A MATTER OF LIKE YOU PACKAGING UP SOME OF THAT INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU'VE ALREADY KIND OF BEEN THROUGH THIS AND THOUGHT ABOUT IT.
UM, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE THAT AS A, AS A FUTURE CONVERSATION OF JUST LIKE, WHAT ARE OUR OPTIONS? WHAT DOES IT COST? LIKE WHAT ARE THE PERCEIVED CONSTRAINTS FROM THE CITY THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY WORTH WITH? YOU KNOW, LIKE, YEAH, NO, I THINK YOU'RE ALL THAT I THINK GET TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THAT SPACE.
SO WITH THAT, WHAT, UH, THERE'S ONLY REALLY TWO OPTIONS WITHOUT HEAVY MODIFICATION TO THE, AND WE'RE NOT, AND IT'D BE VERY HARD TO DO.
THERE'S TWO OPTIONS, THE ONE WE HAVE, AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT USES STRAPS INSTEAD OF CABLES.
WE ARE LOOKING AT A MORE, UH, PLASTIC VINYL VERSION THAT IS USED SOME PLACES THAT COULD BE AN OPTION.
I'M NOT SURE IF IT COULD BE RETROFITTED WITHOUT A, A MAJOR CHANGE.
BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE LOOKED AT.
UM, WE HAVE TALKED A BIT WITH A FEW PEOPLE, UM, THAT COULD BE A GOOD LONG-TERM REPLACEMENT.
THE, THE DOWNSIDE OF THOSE IS YOU HAVE TO REPLACE THE DOOR MORE OFTEN.
BUT THE COST OF THE DOOR IS LESS AND IF IT BREAKS, IT'S NOT AS HEAVY.
IT'S MUCH EASIER TO BRING DOWN ALL THOSE THINGS.
THE PROBLEM IS NOBODY ELSE IS DOING IT.
AND THAT REALLY COMES DOWN TO WE, WE DON'T LIKE TO BE THE MAVERICK WHEN IT COMES TO NEW TECHNOLOGIES.
AND SO I'M OPEN TO ANYTHING AND ANY RESEARCH YOU HAVE ON IT, WE, WE DO HAVE A LOT A LIST.
IN FACT, WELL, MAYBE, MAYBE IF WE WERE THE MAVERICK AND THERE'S SOME COST SAVINGS, THERE'S ALSO SOME GUARANTEES IN THE CONTRACT FOR LIABILITY.
I MEAN, BEING FIRST IS NOT ALWAYS THE WORST THING.
YOU SOME, SOMETIMES SOME OFFERS FOR SOME
IS THIS AN AD HOC COMMITTEE OPPORTUNITY WHERE MAYBE THE TWO OF YOU COULD GET TOGETHER ON THIS AND, AND SIT DOWN WITH DAN AND UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS BEEN THOUGHT OF BEFORE AND FIGURE OUT A, A PLAN OF ATTACK JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT WE'VE EXPLORED ALL OF OUR OPTIONS HERE.
THERE, THERE'S THE HANGAR REPAIR AD HOC.
I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE A GOOD, WHOEVER'S ON THAT REMIND ME WHO'S ON THAT?
I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO WAS ON WHO, WHO WAS ON THE HANGER REPAIR? WAS IT JEFF? OH, I THINK IT WAS JEFF AND I JUST, OKAY.
IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'D BE IN? IT'S SO AD HOC.
I THINK IT WOULD BE, IT'D BE AN INTERESTING CONVERSATION.
I THINK I, I THINK IT WOULD BE WORTH INVESTIGATING SOMETHING.
OR TO PREVENT THE SAME THING FROM HAPPENING AGAIN.
YOU KNOW, IT JUST, AND FROM WHAT I HEARD ON THE CHRISTMAS PARTY IS IT DID, YEAH.
AND I DON'T KNOW
WE CAUGHT IT THROUGH TRAINING AND NEW PROCEDURES, SO YEAH.
BUT TRAINING AND PROCEDURES IS GREAT.
BUT HOW ABOUT SOME PHYSICAL STOCKS OR PREVENTIVE THINGS THAT MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THAT TO HAPPEN? WELL, IT'S LIKE A STOP THE ELECTRICITY IN THE WHOLE BUILDING, WHO CARES? SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOTTA BE DOABLE.
I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO MOVE THIS INTO A SMALLER GROUP CONVERSATION WHERE WE HAVE ACCESS TO DAN'S PRIOR INFORMATION AND, AND WE CAN COME BACK TO IT.
UM, CAN, ARE YOU GUYS, ARE YOU SAYING YOU HAD ENOUGH? YEAH, I AM ACTUALLY, UM,
I'D BE HAPPY TO, TO, TO PARTNER WITH COLIN AND HAVE SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS AND, AND THEN WE COULD DO THAT EITHER AS A NEW THING OR AS A REVISION TO THE COMPOSITION OF THE EXISTING HANGAR REPAIR AD HOC.
I, I WOULD SAY THAT, I WOULD SAY AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE THE, THE OLD WAS SO FAR DOWN, SO OLD WOULD BE BETTER TO HAVE IT AS A NEW ONE.
AND THEN IF JEFF WANTS TO BE A PART IT TOO.
SO IT'S THE THREE OF US, I GUESS, BUT HE'S NOT HERE, SO WE'RE ALLOWED TO COMMIT HIM TO THINGS.
YEAH, JEFF WOULD LOVE TO DO IT.
SO IF WE CAN CREATE THAT AD HOC COMMITTEE AND, AND JUST USE THAT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY BUILD SOME CONFIDENCE, I THINK THAT WOULD BE, WOULD BE GOOD.
ANYTHING ELSE, DAN? THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT.
[02:05:02]
GOING, GOING, GONE.