* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. HERE WE GO. [00:00:01] ALRIGHT, UM, GOOD EVENING ALL. WELCOME [CALL TO ORDER] TO THE EARLY MEETING AND THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE PETALUMA CITY COUNCIL, PETALUMA COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT SUCCESSOR AGENCY FOR MONDAY, DECEMBER 1ST. LET'S HAVE A ROLL CALL. BARNACLE. PRESENT CATER THOMPSON. HERE. DI CARLY. HERE. NOW. HERE. QUINT. HERE. REBS HERE. MCDONALD HERE. AND WE DO HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [CLOSED SESSION] UH, TONIGHT'S FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IS CLOSED SESSION. THE CLOSED SESSION IS REGARDING PUBLIC EMPLOYEE PERFORMANCE EVALUATION AND IT'S PURSUANT TO PARAGRAPH ONE, SUBDIVISION B OF CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT CODE SECTION 5 4 9 5 7, UH, FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY AND CITY MANAGER. AND, UM, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT AND NOT SEEING ANY PUBLIC IN THE HOUSE? AND WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY COMMENTS AHEAD OF THE MEETING. AND NO COMMENTS AHEAD OF TIME. THEN, UH, WE'LL CLOSE PUBLIC SESSION AND THEN WE WILL ADJOURN TO CLOSED SESSION FOR, UH, THAT MATTER. WE'LL RETURN TO, UM, OPEN SESSION AT THE COMPLETION OF THE BUSINESS OR AT SIX 30, UH, WHICHEVER COMES LATTER. SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE'RE MOVED TO CLOSED SESSION. MR. MAYOR, ARE WE READY TO BEGIN? [CALL TO ORDER] WE ARE READY TO BEGIN. I MEAN, PERHAPS NOT WITH ALL OUR TECHNICAL CAPACITY, BUT, UH, THE MEETING WILL BEGIN. AND SO I DO WANNA WELCOME EVERYONE TO THE MEETING, THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING OF THE CITY OF PETALUMA, THE CITY COUNCIL AND PETALUMA COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT SUCCESSOR AGENCY FOR MONDAY, DECEMBER 1ST, 2025. UM, IF YOU WISH TO PROVIDE A PUBLIC COMMENT ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA, PLEASE SPELL OUT A FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD. THEY'RE IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM. BRING 'EM TO THE FRONT. AND, UM, WITH THAT, I THINK WE'LL MOVE TO ROLL CALL. WE ARE STREAMING OUR AUDIO ONLINE, WHICH IS A GOOD NEWS. THANK YOU. UM, BARNACLE PRESENT, CATER THOMPSON. HERE TO CARLY. HERE NOW. HERE QUINT. HERE SHRIVES. HERE, MCDONALD HERE. AND WE DO HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU. LET'S STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE FOR LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. AND A MOMENT OF SILENCE. THANK YOU. AND THAT BRINGS [AGENDA CHANGES AND DELETIONS (TO CURRENT AGENDA ONLY)] US TO, UM, OUR AGENDA FOR THE EVENING. AND, UH, I GENERALLY LOOK UP AND DOWN THE DIOCESE AND SEE WHETHER ANYONE IN COUNCIL HAS A NEED TO, UH, MODIFY THE AGENDA FROM THE WAY IT HAS BEEN, UH, WRITTEN AND PRESENTED TO THE PUBLIC AND NOT SEEING ANY, THE AGENDA IS ADOPTED AS WRITTEN. AND THAT BRINGS US TO OUR FIRST ITEM, WHICH IS OUR REPORT OUT OF CLOSED SESSION. AND WE HAD CLOSED SESSION STARTING AT FIVE O'CLOCK TONIGHT. AND THERE ARE NO REPORTABLE ACTIONS FROM THAT CLOSED SESSION. THANK YOU. AND THAT MOVES US TO [PRESENTATIONS] OUR PRESENTATION, WHICH IS A FLOATING SOLAR, UH, OUR FLOATING SOLAR PROJECT, THE CONSTRUCTION COMPLETION, UH, WHICH I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT. AND WE HAVE HERE WITH US DIANE RAMIREZ, OUR SENIOR PROJECT MANAGER, AND PATRICK CARTER, ASSISTANT TO CITY MANAGER TO, UM, HELP US, UH, WITH THE GOOD NEWS ON THIS PROJECT. SO WELCOME. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. TONIGHT WE ARE HERE TO CELEBRATE THE COMMERCIAL OPERATION OF THE FLOATING SOLAR ARRAY AT ELLIS CREEK WATER RECYCLING FACILITY AND SHARE SOME PROJECT DETAILS AND PHOTOS OF THE CONSTRUCTION. NEXT SLIDE. ELLIS CREEK WATER RECYCLING FACILITY IS LOCATED IN SOUTHEAST PETALUMA. THERE ARE 10 OXIDATION PONDS AT THE FACILITY ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE TREATMENT PLANT. AND THE FLOATING SOLAR ARRAY IS CONSTRUCTED ON POND NUMBER THREE. NEXT SLIDE. THIS IS AN AERIAL PHOTO OF THE COMPLETELY CONSTRUCTED ARRAY. THIS GIVES AN IDEA OF THE COVERAGE OF POND THREE. THE ARRAY SIZE IS AROUND 10 ACRES, AND THE POND SURFACE AREA IS ABOUT 15 ACRES. NEXT SLIDE. TONIGHT WE WANNA GO THROUGH SOME GOALS THAT WE HAD FOR THE PROJECT AS WELL AS THE OVERALL TIMEFRAME AND OTHER CONTRACT [00:05:01] SPECIFICS. NEXT SLIDE. THE ELLIS CREEK WATER RECYCLING FACILITY IS THE CITY'S LARGEST ENERGY USER AT ABOUT 9,374,000 KILOWATT HOURS PER YEAR, WHICH COSTS ELLIS CREEK AROUND $2.4 MILLION FOR THEIR UTILITY BILLS. THE FLOATING SOLAR ARRAY ANNUALLY SHOULD PRODUCE ABOUT 9,078,000 KILOWATT HOURS IN THE FIRST YEAR. AND THEN, UM, ALSO INTERESTING, IT'S A SIX MEGAWATT DC SYSTEM, WHICH IS INSTALLED BEHIND THE METER AND IS SIZE SPECIFICALLY FOR THE CURRENT LOAD OF ELLIS CREEK. SINCE THE SOLAR SYSTEM BECAME OPERATIONAL IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF THIS FISCAL YEAR, WE EXPECT TO SAVE AROUND $300,000 FROM OUR UTILITY BILLS THIS YEAR. THE CITY OF PETALUMA DID NOT INCUR COSTS TO DESIGN, PERMIT, CONSTRUCT, OR MAINTAIN THIS PROJECT. WE WERE SUCCESSFUL TO DELIVER THE SYSTEM BY NM TWO, WHICH ENDS IN APRIL OF 2026. HAD WE BEEN DELAYED TO THE NM THREE PROGRAM, WE MIGHT HAVE LOST ABOUT 50% OF THE VALUE OF THE KILOWATTS PRODUCED. THE SECONDARY EFFECTS OF FLOATING SOLAR ARE REPORTED TO BE A REDUCTION OF WATER EVAPORATION, REDUCED ALGAE GROWTH, AND NO LAND WAS PERMANENTLY IMPACTED BY THIS PROJECT. NEXT SLIDE. THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN UNDERWAY FOR ABOUT FOUR YEARS NOW. CITY STAFF STARTED THE PROCESS BY WRITING AND ADVERTISING A REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL AND A REQUEST FOR QUALIFICATIONS. IN JANUARY OF 2022, THE CITY ENGAGED NV FIVE TO ASSIST STAFF WITH PROPOSAL SCORING AND INTERVIEWS. AND THROUGHOUT THE PROJECT, NV FIVE HAS ASSISTED STAFF WITH RUNNING INDEPENDENT CALCULATIONS, REVIEWING PROJECT DESIGNS, AND PERFORMING TECHNICAL CONSTRUCTION INSPECTIONS. IT TOOK ABOUT 10 MONTHS FOR STAFF AND THE DEVELOPER TO NEGOTIATE AND DOCUMENT THE FULL REQUIREMENTS OF THE ENERGY SERVICES AGREEMENT, WHICH INCLUDED SYSTEM DESIGN REQUIREMENTS, CONSTRUCTION EXPECTATIONS, FINAL SYSTEM TESTING REQUIREMENTS, AND ONGOING OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE. THEN CONSTRUCTION TOOK ONE FULL YEAR. STAFF HAS ALSO WORKED CLOSELY WITH MARIN SONOMA MOSQUITO VECTOR CONTROL TO ENSURE THAT THEIR TECHNICIANS COULD CONTINUE TO ACCESS THE ARRAY TO CONTINUE THEIR SITE TESTING AND TREATMENT AS NEEDED. NEXT SLIDE. OUR ENERGY SERVICES AGREEMENT, UM, WHICH IS ALSO COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS A POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENT, OR PPA, UM, HAS AN INITIAL TERM OF 20 YEARS AND INCLUDES PROVISIONS FOR THE CITY TO PURCHASE THE SYSTEM. OVER THE 20 YEAR CONTRACT, THE CITY COULD SAVE AS MUCH AS $11 MILLION ON ELECTRICITY BILLS. TO MAXIMIZE FIRST YEAR SAVINGS, THE CITY OPTED TO CONTRACT FOR A 2% ANNUAL INCREASE OF THE POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENT RATE KILOWATT HOUR RATE. OTHER THAN THE MONTHLY SOLAR POWER PAYMENTS, THE CITY WILL NOT MAKE ANY OTHER PAYMENTS TO THE SOLAR DEVELOPER. NEXT SLIDE. SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THIS PROJECT, THERE'S BEEN ENCOURAGING PRESS ABOUT THE UPCOMING PROJECT. PETALUMA'S FLOATING ARRAY IS THE THIRD IN SONOMA COUNTY FOR A MUNICIPALITY AFTER THE TOWN OF WINDSOR AND THE CITY OF HEALDSBURG. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF MEDIA I FOUND ONLINE FOR THE PROJECT. NEXT SLIDE. THERE'S SOME INTERESTING DETAILS IN PUTTING TOGETHER THIS 10 ACRE PROJECT. UM, THE ARRAY IS CONSTRUCTED OF 26,000 FLOATS OF FOUR DIFFERENT SIZES TO KEEP EVERYTHING ON THE SURFACE OF THE POND. THERE ARE 11,000 SOLAR PANELS THAT ARE MOUNTED TO A SPECIFICALLY SHAPED FLOAT, WHICH YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THERE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE. AND THE TILT ANGLE IS 12 DEGREES. NEXT SLIDE. THIS LAYOUT SHOWS KIND OF AN OVER OR IT'S A PLANNED VIEW AND IT SHOWS WHERE THE SOLAR PANEL, THE LIGHT BLUE COLOR, IS CENTERED OVER THAT SPECIFICALLY SHAPED FLOAT. IT ACTUALLY HAS A HOLE IN THE CENTER OF IT. UM, ALSO SHOWN IS SOME OF THE INTERVENING PATHWAYS THAT ARE THE NARROWEST PATHWAYS. AND THAT IS THE DEPICTION OF A PERSON FROM A BIRD'S EYE VIEW WALKING ALONG THAT PATH. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. THIS IS MORE OF WHAT WE CALL A BOAT'S EYE VIEW, IF YOU WILL. UM, AND IT SHOWS HOW THE FLOATS AND THE PANELS ARE ON TOP OF THE SURFACE OF THE WATER. THAT'S THAT SAME PERSON WALKING ALONG ONE OF THE SMALLER PATHWAYS IN BETWEEN THE SOLAR PANELS. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. WE HAVE SEVEN DOCKS GOING AROUND, MAINLY ONE SIDE OF THE FLOATING ARRAY. AND THAT'S SO THAT THE ARRAY CAN BE EASILY ACCESSED. OVERALL, [00:10:01] THE ARRAY IS BROKEN OUT INTO SIX DIFFERENT PARTS. UM, JUST HELPS DIVIDE UP THOSE 11,000 PANELS SO THAT IT'S NOT SUCH AN OVERWHELMING SPACE TO, TO TRY TO GET INTO WHENEVER MAINTENANCE NEEDS TO BE PERFORMED. AND ALSO IMPORTANTLY FOR MOSQUITO VECTOR CONTROL. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. NEXT ONE. YEAH. PERFECT. UH, THIS IS AN AERIAL VIEW OF THAT WIDEST PATHWAY. UM, SHOWS A PERSON WALKING THERE AS WELL. UM, THIS IS ALSO THE AREA WHERE THE COMBINER BOXES ARE LOCATED THAT HELP MAKE THE ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS FROM THE SOLAR PANELS AND ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE INVERTERS ONTO THE MAIN ELECTRICAL BUILDING HERE AT THE PLANT. AND THEN NEXT ONE IS A FUN LITTLE VIDEO. SO THIS VIDEO SHOWS HOW A COMPLETED SECTION OF THE ARRAY WAS PUSHED UP THE LENGTH OF THE POND TO BE ABLE TO ATTACH IT TO THE ARRAY THAT WAS ALREADY IN PLACE ON EITHER SIDE. UM, EVERYTHING IS TINY SO YOU CAN'T SEE IT, BUT THERE'S TWO PIECES OF EQUIPMENT AND THEY HAVE A GUIDING LINES THAT WILL PULL AND KEEP THE ARRAY ALIGNED. AND THOSE TWO LITTLE TABS AT THE BOTTOM ARE TWO BOATS THAT ARE ACTUALLY PUSHING THAT SECTION OF THE ARRAY. UM, IF IT'S NOT WORKING AS PLANNED , UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN EASILY PUT UP ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE TOO, TO BE ABLE TO SHOW. BUT, AND THIS IS TIME LAPSE, IT IS SPED UP. SO IT DID NOT ACTUALLY HAPPEN THIS QUICKLY. THEY MOVED VERY SLOWLY AND DELIBERATELY DURING CONSTRUCTION. IN THE NEXT SHOT, YOU'RE GONNA SEE THAT THERE'S THESE TABS THAT STICK OUT. SO THAT WAS THE PLACE FROM THE, THE INPLACE ARRAY CAN NOW ATTACH TO THE NEW PIECE OF THE ARRAY. AND, AND THEN YOU'LL SEE PEOPLE THAT ARE OUT THERE ON THE ARRAY. AND THEY WENT ALONG AND BASICALLY ZIPPERED AND FASTENED THAT NEXT SECTION TOGETHER SO THAT IT BECAME ONE COHESIVE UNIT. SO THE WHOLE THING IS ATTACHED FROM END TO END, FROM SIDE TO SIDE. SO THERE'S THE WORKERS OUT THERE. AND THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. ON THE LEFT IS A PICTURE OF THE THREE WIDE FLOATS, AGAIN, THAT MAIN WALKWAY THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT PREVIOUSLY. AND IN THE CENTER OF THAT PICTURE IS ONE OF THE COMBINER BOXES. THERE ARE 32 COMBINER BOXES MOUNTED ON THE FLOATING ARRAY THAT RECEIVED WIRING FROM 25 ROWS OF SOLAR PANELS. EACH COMBINER BOX CONNECTS TO AN INVERTER MOUNTED ON THE BANK OF THE POND, WHICH IS WHAT YOU SEE IN THE NEXT TWO PICTURES. UM, THE INVERTER CHANGES THE DIRECT CURRENT POWER CREATED BY THE SOLAR PANELS INTO THE ALTERNATING CURRENT THAT MATCHES THE UTILITY POWER FROM THE INVERTERS. THE WIRING CROSSES THE ROAD TO TRANSFORMERS. NEXT SLIDE. THERE ARE TWO PLATFORMERS WITH TRANSFORMERS, WEATHER STATIONS AND ELECTRICAL METERS. THIS IS THE POINT WHERE THE 32 CABLES FROM THE INVERTERS ARE COMBINED INTO A FEW CABLES THAT MAKE THE NEARLY ONE MILE UNDERGROUND ROUTE TO THE MAIN ELECTRICAL BUILDING AND MAIN UTILITY METER AT ELLIS CREEK. NEXT SLIDE. THERE ARE 206 STEEL CABLES THAT ANCHOR THE ARRAY TO PREVENT ITS MOVEMENT. EACH ANCHOR WAS DRIVEN INTO THE BANK OF THE POND AND HAS A SHOVEL SHAPED END TO RESIST PULLING OUT OF THE SOIL. NEXT SLIDE. PRIOR TO OPERATING THE SOLAR ARRAY, EVERY CONNECTION WAS CHECKED WHETHER ON WATER OR ON LAND. THE CONTRACTOR PERFORMED IV CURVE TESTING TO CONFIRM THE INTENDED ENERGY WOULD BE PRODUCED BY THE SOLAR PANELS. OVER THE TIMEFRAME OF THE ENERGY SERVICES AGREEMENT, THE DEVELOPER IS COMMITTED TO CLEANING THE SOLAR PANELS TWO TIMES A YEAR OR MORE IS NEEDED TO MEET THEIR CONTRACTED MINIMUM ENERGY DELIVERY. THE DEVELOPER'S ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR REPLACING ANY SOLAR ARRAY COMPONENTS AS NEEDED OVER THE 20 YEAR TIMEFRAME. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR LONG PROJECT, 48 INDIVIDUALS WERE HIRED AND 20,532 HOURS WERE SPENT ASSEMBLING AND CONNECTING THE ARRAY TO THE INVERTERS AND ULTIMATELY TO THE MAIN INTERCONNECTION POINT. 78,000 OF THOSE HOURS WERE, WERE FOR QUALIFIED APPRENTICES, WHICH PROVIDED ON THE JOB TRAINING FOR THOSE JUST STARTING THEIR ELECTRICAL CAREER. CONSTRUCTION TOOK PLACE IN THE SUN, THE RAIN, THE WIND, AND THE COLD. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. [00:15:02] A LITTLE MORE SOCIAL MEDIA FROM IBEW, WHICH WAS THE LOCAL CHAPTER THAT PROVIDED THE, UM, THE APPRENTICE LABOR. NEXT SLIDE. AND THESE ARE PHOTOS OF OUR PROJECT PARTNERS. UH, WE DID HAVE A SITE WALK RECENTLY. WE HAD GREAT WEATHER FOR IT, WHICH WAS WONDERFUL. UM, ON THE UPPER LEFT HAND SIDE, UH, THOSE ARE OUR PROJECT PARTNERS FROM NV FIVE WITH OUR CITY MANAGER. THE NEXT SLIDE ON THE UPPER RIGHT HAND SIDE, THOSE ARE THE PROJECT PARTNERS FROM COLLINS ELECTRIC AND WHITE PINE. AND THEN JUST A COUPLE OF SHOTS OF, UM, FOLKS ENJOYING BEING OUT THERE TO LOOK AT THE ARRAY IN PERSON. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AND WE FIND THAT WE CAN'T TAKE MORE PHOTOS, , EVERY TIME WE'RE OUT THERE, WE'RE TAKING MORE PHOTOS OF THE ARRAY. UM, I THINK A LOT OF US ARE STILL ENAMORED WITH THIS IMPRESSIVE PROJECT. NEXT SLIDE. AND THEN, AND THEN ONE MORE. NEXT SLIDE. SO QUESTIONS. AND DID YOU WANNA JUST READ WHAT WE HAVE? I I THINK WE, I I COULD JUST, I, THE FOLKS FROM WHITE PINE WANTED TO BE HERE TONIGHT. UNFORTUNATELY, ALL OF 'EM SEEM TO BE TRAVELING TODAY. UM, THEIR COMMENTS WERE INCLUDED AS IN THE, THE RECORD FOR THIS ITEM. I THINK I JUST, AND RATHER THAN READ IT VERBATIM, IT'S, IT'S PART OF IT. AND I JUST WANTED TO EXPRESS THAT THEY WERE VERY GRATEFUL TO WORK ON THIS PROJECT WITH US. UM, WE WORKED WITH THEM FOR FOUR YEARS AND IT WAS A LOT OF WORK THAT, UM, WAS VERY REWARDING FOR ALL OF US AND WE'RE JUST HAPPY TO BE AT THIS POINT. AND THEY SAY VERY SIMILAR THINGS AND ARE VERY MUCH LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH US FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS ON THIS. SO I ENCOURAGE YOU TO LOOK AT THEIR COMMENTS IN, IN THE PACKET AS WELL. IT'S, IT'S A VERY NICE SENTIMENT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BIG MILESTONE DAY. UM, I THINK WE'RE ALL ENAMORED WITH IT AND I THINK WE'RE ENAMORED WITH THE SAVINGS AS WELL AS THE CLIMATE BENEFIT. UM, AND I HOPE YOU'LL, UH, HOLD FOR A MINUTE. YOU KNOW, WHEN WE MOVE TO GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, UH, A QUESTION MAY ARISE OR A COMMENT MAY ARISE THAT WE'D LIKE TO HAVE YOU STAY FOR. AND WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE THE COUNCIL IF THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. AND COUNCIL MEMBER SHRI. UM, FIRST THANK YOU FOR GETTING THIS ALL DONE. UH, I'VE GOT SOLAR PANELS ON MY ROOF. IT'S REALLY HELPED ME OUT. NICE TO SEE THAT. UH, THE QUANTITY OUT THERE. UM, IT'S A LITTLE BIT, LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM PRIOR, UM, ONES THAT I'VE SEEN. UM, THE, UH, THE PANELS THAT WE HAVE OUT THERE, THE, THE FLOATING DEVICES ARE MUCH LARGER, UH, UM, BOTH UNDER AND AND SIDEWAYS ON THESE THINGS. SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE DONE, UM, UH, I'VE ACTUALLY LISTENED TO THE BIRD RESEARCHER WHO'S GOING TO BE OUT THERE, UM, ACTUALLY STUDYING THE BIRDS. HE ACTUALLY CAME TO US, UH, 'CAUSE I'M ALSO PART OF PETAL WETLANDS ALLIANCE. UM, SO, AND THEN WE JUST, UH, SUPPORTED HIS GRANT. WE JUST DONATED A THOUSAND DOLLARS TO HIM TO BUY THE EQUIPMENT. HE'S GONNA BE HAVING CAMERAS OUT THERE DOCUMENTING, UH, BIRD LIFE OUT THERE WITH AND WITHOUT THE PANELS. UM, AND ON DOING THAT. SO I JUST ANOTHER LITTLE ADD ON THAT, THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF BIRD RESEARCH THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE IMPACT. UM, 'CAUSE IT'S, HOPEFULLY THEY'LL STILL BE BIRDS UNDERNEATH. IT'S A LITTLE LESS SPACE THAN I WAS THINKING FOR THAT. BUT WE'LL SEE WHAT BIRDS USE THE WATER UNDERNEATH. BUT APPARENTLY AT OTHER PLACES, BIRDS USE THE UNDERNEATH THE PANELS, UH, QUITE A BIT TO, TO HIDE AND COVER, UM, AND JUST TO FLOAT AND HANG OUT. BUT, UM, THE OTHER AREA THAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS, UM, THE CLEANING PART. SO JUST SO THE PUBLIC KNOWS. 'CAUSE I GO UP THERE ONCE A YEAR AND I ALSO HELP MAINTAIN THE PANELS AT THE, AT OUR CHURCH. 92 PANELS. I HAVE TO CLEAN 'EM, IT TAKES ME TWO TO THREE HOURS TO CLEAN 'EM. BUT I'M ALLOWED TO USE SOAP ON MY PANELS, WHICH WAS REQUIRED BECAUSE OF THE GRIND. I COULDN'T GET IT OFF WITHOUT USING. SO NOT JUST PLAIN WATER. SO JUST FOR MY OWN IDENTIFICATION FOR MY CLEANING WHEN I DO MY PANELS . UM, HOW DO YOU CLEAN THESE? WANT ME, IF YOU WANNA , I, I CAN START AND DIANE CAN CORRECT ME WHERE I GET IT WRONG. WHITE PINE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CLEANING OF THOSE PANELS. SO THAT'S INCLUDED IN THE SERVICES THEY PROVIDE. AND IT'S IN THEIR BEST INTEREST TO KEEP 'EM CLEAN TO A CERTAIN EXTENT BECAUSE WE'RE BUYING ELECTRICITY FROM THEM. AND THE MORE SOILED THOSE PANELS ARE, THE LESS ELECTRICITY THEY SELL TO US. SO THEY, THEY ARE, THEY ARE ON BOARD TO DO PERIODIC CLEANING, UM, THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. THEY, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A MONITOR ON THERE THAT'S THE SAME ORIENTATION AS THOSE PANELS. A LIGHT SENSOR ON ONE ON, ON AWAY FROM THE ARRAY. AND THEY'RE SEEING WHAT THE OUTPUT SHOULD BE COMPARED TO WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS. AND THEY CAN PINPOINT EXACTLY WHERE ON THERE THEY'RE NOT PRODUCING SO THEY CAN SEND PEOPLE OUT IF IT'S NOT PRODUCING ENOUGH. UM, SO I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY INTERESTING. THEY HAVE A SOILING MONITOR ON THERE. UM, AND EVEN JUST FROM WHEN THE RAY GOT PUT IN AND [00:20:01] THEN TO THIS DAY WHERE, WHERE WE WERE OUT THERE, THE RAINS THAT HAPPENED ACTUALLY MADE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. I I, I REMEMBER LOOKING AT THERE BEFORE, LIKE A COUPLE WEEKS BEFORE THIS, BEFORE IT HAD RAINED AND NOTICING THAT A, A BIT OF SOILING ON THERE, BUT JUST THAT, THAT RAIN THAT WE GOT A COUPLE, LIKE A WEEK OR A WEEK A COUPLE WEEKS AGO WAS ENOUGH TO MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. BUT REALLY, ULTIMATELY IT'S ON WHITE PINE TO MAKE SURE THOSE PANELS ARE CLEAN. OKAY, GOOD. 'CAUSE NORMALLY, UM, UH, JUST USING PLAIN, I'VE TRIED PLAIN WATER DOESN'T WORK SO WELL, SO THEY MUST HAVE SPECIAL TECHNIQUES. 'CAUSE WE HAVE WATER UNDERNEATH THAT'S ACTUALLY USED, UH, FOR RECYCLING. SO, UH, NOT CONTAMINATING. SO TRYING TO DO SOMETHING TO CLEAN WITHOUT HURTING THE WATER UNDERNEATH IT IS LIKE JUST SOMETHING THAT, UH, HOW, HOW THAT'S BEING DONE, JUST FOR CURIOSITY ON THAT. BUT, UM, BUT ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE WILL BE FACING IS THE QUANTITY OF BIRDS. I MEAN, THEY'RE, UH, BY PWA DOES BIRD COUNTS AND WHEN THEY GO OUT THERE, THEY, THEY CAN EASILY SPOT A THOUSAND BIRDS FLOATING AROUND THE, THE PONDS, UM, WHICH GENERATES LOTS OF, UM, UH, EXCREMENT. AND, UH, WE, WE KNOW FROM OTHER STUDIES THAT BIRD EXCREMENT ACTUALLY COVERS THE ENTIRE EARTH OVER A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. UH, JUST A FEW YEARS, YOU ACTUALLY GET A COMPLETE A HUNDRED PERCENT COVERAGE OF THE ENTIRE EARTH WITH, OF THE LAND, WITH A BIRD EXCREMENT. SO IT, SO HOW TO KEEP THAT OFF AND CLEAN IS GONNA BE PRETTY CRITICAL OUT THERE. SO I THOUGHT I'D JUST BRING THAT UP AND MAKE SURE WE DO A GOOD JOB ON THAT. BUT THAT, THAT'S GONNA BE THE HARDEST PART, UH, OF, OF, FROM THAT POINT. ANYWAY, THAT'S ALL I HAD FOR THE MOMENT. IT'S PROBABLY A VISUAL I'M GONNA HAVE TROUBLE WITH FOR A WHILE. , UM, COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE, UH, I JUST HOPE DAVE KING'S GOT A CHANCE TO SEE THIS. I THINK THIS WAS HIS, UH, LONG TERM DREAM. SO HOPEFULLY HE'S GOT A CHANCE TO SEE IT. AND IF NOT, LET'S SEND 'EM THE POWERPOINT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND, UM, I'D JUST LIKE TO, UM, HAVE YOU RECONFIRM THAT'S, UM, $500,000 NET PER YEAR. I MEAN, THAT'S LIKE ACTUAL CASH GOING BACK INTO THAT, THAT'S NOT BEING PAID OUT, THAT'S BEING SAVED BY THE WASTEWATER OPERATION OR IS THAT YEAH, THIS, THIS YEAR, 'CAUSE WE STARTED IN OCTOBER, SO WE DON'T ACTUALLY REALIZE ALL 12 MONTHS FOR, FOR OUR FISCAL YEAR IS HOW I'M LOOKING AT IT, WE'RE, I JUST DID A PERCENTAGE OF WHAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA SAVE. SO ABOUT $300,000 THIS YEAR. UM, AND THEN SHOULD GO UP A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THE DIFFERENTIAL OF THE KILOWATT HOUR RATE VERSUS WHAT WE'RE PAYING MIGHT GET FURTHER AND FURTHER APART. SO THAT'S GOOD. SO THAT'S GOOD. AND, AND THEN MY GUESS MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION IS, UH, DOES THAT STAY IN THE ENTERPRISE FUND OR CAN WE HAVE IT IN THE GENERAL FUND? THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SPEAK TO . . OKAY. WELL I'LL CALL THAT RHETORIC. I I MEAN THE, THE, THE NET EFFECT IS WE'RE SAVING MONEY. IT'S NOT LIKE SOMEBODY'S CUTTING US A CHECK. THERE'S NOT A CHECK THAT COMES BACK TO US. IT JUST MEANS THAT WE'RE SPENDING LESS AND THAT IT'LL HELP KEEP THE WATER AND SEWER RATES DOWN. MM-HMM. CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? UM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, GREG. PRESIDENT. YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF PROJECTS WE DO LOVE SEEING GET DONE. UM, AND THAT MOVES US TO OUR GENERAL [GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT] PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THE NIGHT. AND, UH, DURING GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, PUBLIC'S INVITED TO MAKE COMMENT ON ITEMS OF PUBLIC INTEREST THAT ARE WITHIN THE CITY COUNCIL'S SUBJECT MATTER JURISDICTION AND THAT ARE NOT LISTED ON THE CURRENT AGENDA. PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON, AND DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF PERSONS WISHING TO ADDRESS COUNCIL TIME WILL BE ALLOCATED EQUAL SHARES TOTALING NO MORE THAN 20 MINUTES. IF WE HAVE MORE THAN 20 PEOPLE WISHING TO SPEAK, THE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS WILL BE HEARD AFTER THE LAST BUSINESS ITEM ON THE AGENDA. AND I'D LIKE TO ASK OUR CITY CLERK, UM, IF WE'VE RECEIVED ANY ONLINE AND WE, UH, POSTED THOSE AND THEN COMMENCED WITH OUR MESSAGE. YES, WE RECEIVED SIX GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS AND THOSE ARE POSTED ONLINE. AND AT THIS TIME, I'LL START A 32ND CLOCK AND WELL, 30 SECONDS PLEASE BRING YOUR CARD, . OKAY, I THINK I'M BACK. SORRY, I DON'T KNOW. SOMETHING IN THE AIR TONIGHT. UM, PLEASE BRING YOUR SPEAKER GUARD TO MY DESK WITHIN THESE 30 SECONDS. HOW MANY YOU HAVE SO FAR? THAT WILL, HOW MANY IS THIS? THIS IS NINE. OKAY. SO TONIGHT WE HAVE A NINE, UH, PUBLIC SPEAKERS. AND SO WITH NINE, WE HAVE TWO MINUTES EACH PERSON. AND SO OUR FIRST SPEAKER WILL BE JOHN HANIA TO BE FOLLOWED BY CHANTEL ROGERS. [00:25:10] GOOD EVENING. I WANT TO LET THE CITYUM THAT I PLAN TO WITHDRAW MY PETITION FOR JANUS RECALL. I WAS OVERWHELMED BY THE SUPPORT I GOT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT JANICE BEHAVIOR IS UNETHICAL. HOPEFULLY THAT THIS IS LOUD MESSAGE TO JANICE THAT SHE CANNOT ACT THIS WAY. AS LONG AS THAT RECOGNIZED, I DON'T THINK WE NEED A SPECIAL ELECTION. MY HOPE IS THAT EVERYBODY UP THERE TAKE NOTE THAT THE PEOPLE WILL STAND UP. THE COMMUNITY IS PAYING ATTENTION MORE THAN YOU GIVE THEM A CREDIT FOR. AND IT SHOULDN'T GET TO THE POINT THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE TO PUSH A RECALL. YOU GUYS SHOULD BE DOING A JOB THAT PEOPLE TRUST. IN A TIME WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF TURMOIL IN POLITICS, WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO SET AN EXAMPLE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL IN HOW TO COMMUNICATE AND HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP IN A LOCAL POLITICS. I NEEDED TO DO THIS SO THAT YOU GUYS WOULD RECOGNIZE THAT THE PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT YOU ARE REPRESENTING THEM, THEM WELL, I THINK I MADE MY POINT. I HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE BEHIND ME THAT ARE READY TO PUSH THIS, BUT HOPEFULLY THIS PROCESS HAS OPENED YOUR EYES TO THINGS THAT NEEDED TO BE CLEANED UP AND RESOLVED. THIS IS BEHAVIORAL ISSUE, AN UNETHICAL ISSUE THAT HOPEFULLY YOU CAN RESOLVE INTERNALLY AS THE PUBLIC. WE DO RESERVE OUR I TO USE A RECALL EFFORT IN THE FUTURE IF WE NEED TO. AND NOW WE KNOW THAT WE WOULD HAVE PLENTY OF SUPPORT FOR IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU CHANTELLE ROGERS TO BE FOLLOWED BY CATHERINE BOBOWSKI. GOOD EVENING. UM, I IMAGINE THAT YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THE, UM, RECENT MEDIA ABOUT, UH, WHAT'S GOING ON IN MARIN COUNTY CONCERNING E-BIKES AND THEIR, UM, ADOPTION OF SOME RESTRICTIONS, UM, IN ORDER TO TRY TO MAKE THEM SAFER. UM, AS A RECAP, CLASS ONE EE UM, E-BIKES ARE PEDAL ASSIST, NO AGE LIMIT, NO AGE LIMIT, UM, STILL FAST. THEY CAN TRAVEL TWICE THE SPEED OF A TYPICAL 14-YEAR-OLD ON A REGULAR BIKE. SO AN 8-YEAR-OLD GOING TWICE AS FAST AS A 14-YEAR-OLD ON A REGULAR BIKE IS LEGAL. UM, BUT THE CHANGE THAT THEY MADE HAD TO DO WITH CLASS TWO. CLASS TWO BIKES ARE SUPPOSED TO GO UP TO 20 MILES AN HOUR. UM, BUT THERE ARE WAYS TO, UM, JERRY RIG THOSE BIKES SO THAT THEY CAN GO, UM, A LOT FASTER. UM, AND UM, LEMME JUST READ FROM THIS HERE. E-BIKE SOLD BY CERTAIN MANUFACTURERS. THE RIDER MAY USE THE HANDLEBAR DISPLAY OR AN APP PAIRED WITH A BICYCLE TO SHIFT INTO UNLIMITED MODE AND EXCEED 20 MILES AN HOUR WITHOUT PEDALING. STUDENTS CAN USE THEIR OWN IPHONE OR A FRIEND'S IPHONE TO DOWNLOAD THE APP USING THE FASTEST MODE FOR ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR BRANDS. AND MARIN RIDERS CAN GO FROM ZERO TO OVER 30 MILES AN HOUR IN 11 SECONDS. UM, ALSO OF NOTE DATA. AS OF OCTOBER, 2024, A MARINS HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICE BICYCLE SAFETY DASHBOARD REVEALS THAT 85% OF ALL 9 1 1 BICYCLE CRASHES FOR AGES 10 TO 15 WERE E-BIKE RELATED. THE E-BIKE CRASH RATE FOR 10 TO 15 YEAR OLDS IS FIVE TIMES HIGHER THAN ANY OTHER AGE GROUP. THESE SEVERE INJURIES ARE SIMILAR TO THOSE INVOLVING MOTORCYCLE CRASHES SUCH AS CONCUSSIONS, EVEN WHEN WEARING A HELMET AND BROKEN PELVIC BONES WITH LONG-TERM. OH, THAT WAS FAST. SORRY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU CATHERINE BOBOWSKI TO BE FOLLOWED BY JODY JOHNSON. YES, MY NAME'S KAIA. I LIVE AT THE LITTLEWOOD FIELD OF MOMO PARK AT 1821 LAKE FAJA. A HARMONY IS BREAKING LAWS THERE. THEY STILL HAVE THAT FENCE IN A BACK PARKING LOT UP AND THAT PREVENTS, UH, RESIDENTS TO BE PARKED IN THEIR VEHICLES. THAT'S ILLEGAL. AND ALSO TOO, THE LITTLE HARMONY IS HAVING THEIR ONSITE MANAGER, HAVING [00:30:01] THEIR FRIENDS, HER FAMILY BE BLOCKING THE FIRE LANES, PARKING ON THE FIRE LANES, WHICH IS A FIRE AND SAFETY CODE VIOLATION ON PARA LANE ALSO. AND ALSO TOO, HARMONY COMMUNITY STATES, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOING BANKRUPTCY. THAT IS A LIE. IF THEY'RE GOING BANKRUPTCY, HOW CAN THEY BE AFFORDING TO BE BUYING ALL THESE MOBILE PARKS, STATEWIDE HARMONY COMMUNITIES TERRORIZING, HARASSING RESIDENTS AND BREAKING ALL THE LAWS, AND THEY NEED TO BE STOPPED NOW. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. THEY'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 20 YEARS AND THEY NEED TO BE STOPPED NOW. THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO GO AWAY WITH THIS ANOTHER 20, 30, 40 YEARS FROM NOW. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. AND ALSO, HARMONY COMMUNITY IS THEY'RE LIARS, THEY'RE CROOKS, AND THEY'RE DISHONEST. THANK YOU, JODY JOHNSON TO BE FOLLOWED BY JANICE BARKER. GOOD EVENING MAYOR. CITY COUNCIL AND CITY STAFF IN OUR MOBILE HOME RESIDENTS CONTINUED PURSUIT OF ENFORCEMENT AGAINST EGREGIOUS VIOLATIONS OF ORDINANCES, LAWS, ZONING AND PRIVACY BY BAD ACTOR PARK OWNERS AND BAD ACTOR PARK MANAGERS. WE BRING THE FOLLOWING ADDITIONAL ISSUES FROM JUST THE LAST TWO WEEKS FORWARD. YOUNGSTOWN RESIDENTS HAVE HAD THE FOLLOWING OCCUR. PRIVATE INFORMATION OF YOUNGSTOWN RESIDENTS, WHICH IS ONLY IN THE HANDS OF PARK MANAGEMENT AT TIME OF APPROVAL BEING GIVEN TO DISGRUNTLED NON-MOBILE PARK IN PETALUMA AND ELSEWHERE IN THIS CASE, HAS STATED ON THE PUBLIC FACEBOOK PAGE OF PETALUMA ARGUS COURIER FROM A COMMUNITY MEMBER, THEY STATE PER THE YOUNGSTOWN PARK OWNER AND THEN PROCEED TO GIVE STATUS INFORMATION OF A RESIDENT WHO LIVES IN YOUNGSTOWN MOBILE PARK. UNDER FAIR HOUSING AND CCPA CONS, CALIFORNIA CONSUMER PRIVACY ACT OF 2018. NO MANAGEMENT OR PARK OWNER IS ALLOWED TO GIVE OUT PRIVATE INFORMATION ABOUT ANY RESIDENT LIVING WITHIN THEIR PARK. IN FACT SAID, INFORMATION SHOULD BE IN A LOCKED AREA ACCESSIBLE TO ONLY THE PERSON GIVEN PERMISSION BY RESIDENT TO HAVE. WE ARE AWARE THAT THIS HAS BEEN DONE IN MANY WAYS TO RETALIATE AND SEEK HARM ON ADVOCATES OF YOUNGSTOWN. BESIDES THIS BEING UNLAWFUL, THE INTENT OF THESE PARK OWNERS AND MANAGERS CONTINUES TO MATTER. IN ADDITION, RESIDENTS OF YOUNGSTOWN NOW DEALING WITH THE NEW MANAGEMENT THAT PREVIOUSLY TRIED TO EXTORT RESIDENTS OUT OF THEIR RIGHTS IS CHARGING TIER TWO WATER FOR RESIDENTS METER METERING, WHICH IS IN THE TIER ONE WATER STATUS WHEN DEMANDS SENT TO ADDRESS THOSE OVERPAYMENTS, NO ANSWERS. AND THEN CORRECTIONS OF THESE MISTAKEN STATEMENTS ARE REVISED UPWARD AND THEN DEMANDED TO BE ADJUSTED AGAIN, MISMANAGEMENT AT THE LEAST AND PURE RETALIATION AGAINST SENIOR CITIZENS. NOW COMES DECEMBER 1ST. STATEMENTS FOR RESIDENTS AND NO STATEMENTS IN ADVANCE TO CLARIFY CORRECT CHARGING OR ONLY AS WE HAD TO DEMAND A STATEMENT THEY SENT OUT DECEMBER 1ST. THANK YOU JANICE BARKER TO BE FOLLOWED BY TIM PORTUS. UH, NOW COMES DECEMBER 1ST. STATEMENTS FOR RESIDENTS AND NO STATEMENTS PRODUCED IN ADVANCE TO CLARIFY CORRECT CHARGING AND ONLY AS WE HAD TO DEMAND A STATEMENT THEY SENT OUT DECEMBER 1ST. AFTER AUTOMATIC PAYMENTS ALREADY PROCESSED FOR SOME FAIR HOUSING PRIVACY ACTS AND MISTAKES UPON, UPON MISTAKES NOT BEING ADDRESSED BY PARK OWNERS OR PARK OWNERS, VICE PRESIDENTS, OR EVEN PARK OWNERS. ATTORNEYS UNCHECKED CONTINUED VIOLATIONS OF BUSINESS LAW MRL LAW AND STATE LAW. IN ADDITION, MANY YOUNGSTOWN RESIDENTS WHO FALL INTO A TIER ONE WATER CONSUMPTION HAD PARK MANAGEMENT JUST ARBITRARILY IN OCTOBER SET THEIR WATER AT A TIER TWO RATE, ALMOST DOUBLE THE PRICE OF THE TIER ONE CONSUMPTION RATE. NO BILLING SUPPLIED AS PER M-R-M-R-L LAW DEMANDS MONTHLY. WHEN DEMANDS WENT UNANSWERED TO PARK MANAGEMENT. AND THE PARK OWNERS RESIDENTS, AGAIN BEAR THE BURDEN TO HOLD THEIR UNFAIR PRAC BUSINESS PRACTICES TO A COURT OF LAW. UM, LITTLE WOODS'S RESIDENTS RECEIVING SEVEN DAY NOTICES, INCLUDING PARK VIOLATION PARKING VIOLATIONS ON A SPACE THAT IS WITHOUT ANY PARKING AFTER HARMONY, REMOVE PARKING IN EFFECT FOR RESIDENT, IN EFFECT FOR RESIDENTS FOR YEARS. THIS TO A FAMILY WITH A MOTHER AND A DAUGHTER WHO AREN'T SAFE, WALKING A FAR DISTANCE AT NIGHT AND TO AND FROM THEIR CARS. UPON MOVING INTO LITTLE WOODS, LEASES AND RULES SHOW PARKING GIVEN AND RE THE RETALIATION OF PARKING REMOVED. AND THEN SEVEN DAY NOTICES TO EVICT A RESIDENT FOR, [00:35:01] FOR PARKING. OWNER REDUCTIONS OF SERVICES IS BEYOND EGREGIOUS. PARKING IS A RESIDENT'S, RIGHT? IT IS THAT SIMPLE. ALTHOUGH THE COMPLEX WITH RESIDENTS, ALTHOUGH COMPLEX WITH RESIDENTS ONE YEAR NOW WITHOUT PARKING. THANK YOU. TIM FORTUS SHOULD BE FOLLOWED BY, UH, UM, LORRAINE. UH, GRUNBERGER. CAPRI IS NOW FACING AN APPEAL ON THEIR LATEST ARBITRATION. FRIVOLOUS PLEADING AGAIN AS IT RELATES TO MEET AND CONFER. EVEN THOUGH THE PARK ATTORNEY STATED THEY DID NOT HAVE A BASE YEAR FOR AN MNOI ARBITRATION, CAPRI RESIDENTS CONTINUED TO RACK OVER CHARGES THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN DENIED AS UNLAWFUL BUSINESS PRACTICES AS WELL, BUYING A MOBILE PARK AND THEN CHARGE, CHANGING THE GROUND RENT TO INCLUDE PAST UTILITIES, WATER AND SEWER, AND THEN THAT GROUND RENT GOING FORWARD. BUT THEN USING AND ADDING A UTILITIES SEWER AND WATER A SECOND TIME IS CLEARLY DOUBLE DIPPING WHEN DEMANDS MADE TO CORRECT THIS. WERE OVER A YEAR AND A HALF NOW. PARK OWNERS MAKE NO ATTEMPT TO STOP. THESE EGREGIOUS OVERCHARGES RESIDENTS ARE MADE TO ENGAGE THEIR OWN FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS. ALTHOUGH THESE UNLAWFUL BUSINESS PRACTICES SHOULD BE ON THE BURDEN OF THE PARK OWNER AND NOT OFF THE BACK OF THE RESIDENCE. MOBILE PARK RESIDENTS IN PETALUMA AGREE ENTIRELY WITH A STATEMENT IN THE CURRENT ARTICLE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SUNDAY PRESS. DEMOCRAT FROM ERIC DANNELLY. NO ONE GETS TO DEFEAT A LOCAL ENACTMENT BY VIRTUE OF THEM VIOLATING IT. INTENT MATTERS AS WE HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS NOW. PAUL BEARD QUOTED IN THIS SAME ARTICLE, STATES THAT WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS A LAST RESORT AFTER SEEING THEIR CONCERNS OVER UNWORKABLE LAWS IGNORED AND THEIR ATTEMPTS AT COMPROMISE REBUFFED. IN FACT, THESE ORDINANCES ARE AND LAWS HAVE BEEN IN EFFECT SINCE 1994. WHAT PARK OWNERS DO NOT LIKE IS THAT THEY CANNOT DISSOLVE, SETTLED RENT STABILIZATION CANNOT DISSOLVE. SENIOR PARK ZONING CANNOT CHANGE FAIR ANNUAL INCREASES TO GOUGE ANNUAL INCREASES. THANK YOU LORRAINE GRUNBERGER TO BE FOLLOWED BY JENNIFER BOYLE. WHAT PARK OWNERS DO NOT LIKE IS THAT THEY CANNOT DISSOLVE, SETTLED RENT STABILIZATION CANNOT DISSOLVE. SENIOR PARK ZONING CANNOT CHANGE FAIR ANNUAL INCREASES TO EXTORT ANNUAL INCREASES. UH, AND NOTABLY PUSH OUT SENIORS AND VULNERABLE FAMILIES TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE TYPES OF BUSINESSES. SEEKING $2,000 MORE IN GROUND RENTS, UNFETTERED INCREASES VACANCY D CONTROL AND BARBARIC PRISON-LIKE LIVING FOR ANY RESIDENTS WILL. FOR ANY OF THE RESIDENTS, WE WE'RE WILLING TO STAND UP FOR THEIR RIGHTS. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE HERE IS THAT THEY PACKAGE IT TO THE CITY AND ADVOCATE THAT THE RESIDENTS ARE THE BULLS AND THAT THE PARK OWNERS OF THESE, OF THESE LARGE INVESTMENT GROUPS ARE UNABLE TO MAXIMIZE THE PROFIT SAME TO BE THE SAME TIME TO OKAY, IT WAS AND CONTINUES TO BE, BE THE TIME TO STOP THE UNCHECKED RUTHLESS BUSINESS PRACTICES THAT THESE BAD ACTORS AND LARGE INVESTMENT PARK OWNERS ENGAGE IN EVERY DAY. NOTABLY THE TIME TO STOP HARASSMENT OF SENIORS THAT CONTINUES DAILY IN THE PURSUIT OF GRADE. THESE BAD ACTORS ARE CLEARLY, THESE BAD ACTORS ARE CLEAR THAT THEY WILL BURDEN BARRIERS IN ALL AND LEGAL DEBT AND PREVAIL. LET'S NOT KID OURSELVES THAT THINGS, FALSE NARRATIVES ABOUT PARK [00:40:01] OWNERS BEING ANY KIND OF VICTIM ARE JUST THAT FALSE THANK YOU TO THE CITY FOR MERELY TAKING IN THE FACTS, VERIFYING THE FACTS, AND PROVIDING OVERSIGHT FOR YOUR VERY OWN INTENT. WE ARE WEARY AND FINANCIALLY STRAPPED, BUT WE ARE IMMENSELY GRATEFUL. PETALUMA MOBILE HOMES UNITED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, UH, KELLY WALKER. OKAY. UM, AND I HAVE NO FURTHER CARDS. AND SO THAT CLOSES PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THE EVENING AND, UM, AND I'LL, I'LL [COUNCIL COMMENT] BRING IT ON UP TO THE, UH, DAIS FOR OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS. I'D LIKE TO START OFF TO MY LEFT WITH COUNCIL MEMBER REBS. THANK YOU. OKAY. THE, UM, UH, FIRST ITEM, UH, I PARTICIPATED IN THE TURKEY TROT LAST THURSDAY. UM, AND VERY SUCCESSFUL IN THE PAST. IT'S LIKE ABOUT FOUR OR 500 PEOPLE SHOWED UP, BUT THIS TIME 1200 PEOPLE REGISTERED AND AT LEAST 1200 SHOWED UP AND DID THE TURKEY TROT. AND I WENT OUT WITH THEM, DID THAT. I ALSO TABLED WITH PWA PRESENTING, UM, WHAT WE DO THERE, UH, TO THE GROUP. AND THEY BROUGHT IN A LARGE VAN, UM, AND WE COMPLETELY FILLED UP WITH FOOD AND ALSO MONEY WAS, WAS DONATED. SO A VERY SUCCESSFUL EVENT. I LOOK FORWARD TO IT NEXT YEAR TOO. UM, NEXT THING I DID COMPLETE MY, UM, AT THE, THERE'S A CIVIL POLICE ACADEMY FOR RESIDENTS. I WAS ABLE TO GET IN ON, UH, THERE WAS 20 OF US THAT PARTICIPATED IN THE POLICE ACADEMY. IT'S 10 SESSIONS DURING THE WEEK AND A FULL DAY ON A SATURDAY TO GO UP TO THE POLICE ACADEMY AND ACTUALLY SEE WHAT THEY DO THERE. UH, VERY, UH, INTENSE PROGRAM. UH, WE ARE ABLE TO GET, UM, TALKED TO BY 28 DIFFERENT POLICEMEN WHO TELL US WHAT THEY DO, HOW THEY DO IT, WHY THEY DO IT, UH, AND ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS INVOLVED. UM, AND ONE THING I WAS REALLY IMPRESSED, UM, THEY, EVEN THE DETECTIVE THAT RAN POLY CLASS, UH, PROGRAM FOR US THERE YEARS AGO, THAT WAS OVER 20 YEARS AGO, CAME BACK AND GAVE US A THREE HOUR PRESENTATION ON THE INTERNAL WORKINGS OF HOW THAT HAPPENED. HOW WE'RE ABLE TO, UH, SOLVE THE CASE. SO THAT WAS A PRETTY TREMENDOUS, UH, EVENT TO GO THROUGH. UH, LOTS OF LEARNING. AND WHAT'S MOST IMPRESSIVE IS OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE FOLKS THAT CAME IN FROM, UH, A COUPLE PLACES THAT, THAT, UH, SOME OF THE POLICEMEN THAT WE'D HAVE ON STAFF CAME IN FROM OTHER PLACES. AND EXTREMELY POWERFUL COMPLIMENTS OF HOW WONDERFUL, NOT ONLY IN GENERAL, CALIFORNIA'S BETTER THAN A LOT OF THE OTHER STATES IN THE WORLD, BUT US PARTICULARLY PATEL PETALUMA IS A REALLY GOOD REPUTATION AND IT'S ONE OF THE BEST RUN POLICE DEPARTMENTS AROUND. SO THAT'S, AND I JUST WANTED TO, UH, JUST SUPPORT THAT. THAT'S ALSO WHAT I OBSERVED. THEN, UM, THEN AT THE, UH, NOTHING CAME OUT IN THE NEWS. OUR SAN FRANCISCO NORTH PETALUMA, KOA RESORT CAMPGROUNDS WAS PICKED AS THE BEST CAMPGROUND OF KOA FOR 2025, WHICH IS VERY IMPRESSIVE THAT OUR CAMPGROUND IS THE NUMBER ONE, UH, LIST OUT THERE. SO I HAVE A LITTLE ARTICLE ON THAT THAT CAME OUT. UH, ANYBODY WANTS TO SEE THAT LATER. THEN, UM, NOTHING INVENTED INTERNATIONALLY THAT'S AFFECTING US SINCE WE ARE A CLIMATE READY CITY. UH, WAS WATCHING THE COP 30, WHICH IS HAPPENING IN BRAZIL, WHICH HAS CLOSED DOWN. FOLKS CAME BACK. WE EVEN HAD FOLKS, I THINK ONE OF OUR LOCALS WENT DOWN. UM, AND THEY'LL GIVE US A REALLY, A REPORT BACK AT OUR CLIMATE COMMISSION, IF YOU PROBABLY HEAR ABOUT THAT THIS NEXT, UH, WEEK FROM TUESDAY, I THINK, OR THURSDAY, SHARI. UM, ANYWAY, SO THAT HAPPENED. UH, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT WAS THE MAJOR, UH, OIL PRODUCERS ARE, ARE PREVENTING CLIMATE ACTIONS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD. UM, AND THAT THE REAL ACTION HA HAPPENS TO HAPPEN TO BE AT THE CITY LEVEL. CITIES NEED TO STEP UP AND DO THE WORK BECAUSE THE MAJOR COUNTRIES JUST CAN'T GET IT DONE. UM, AND JUST AS A REMINDER OF THAT, UM, I WENT TO A WEBINAR WHERE WE HAD SOMEONE FROM THE METCON DELTA FROM THE KA RUM, UH, AREA, AND EXPLAINING THAT HE'S BEING HIS COMMUNITY, UH, HIS WHOLE POPULATION, WHICH IS A MINORITY IN, IN THAT IN THE COUNTRY OF VIETNAM, UM, IS, IS UNDER STRESS ALREADY, UH, FROM SALT WATER INTRUSION, FROM SEA LEVEL RISE FROM LAND SUBSIDENCE, UM, AND ALSO THAT THE GOVERNMENT'S NOT BEING, TAKING CARE OF THE SITUATION VERY WELL DOWN THERE. SO, UM, IT'S HAPPENING NOW. AND ANOTHER REPORT SAID THAT 30% OF THE CITIES AROUND THE WORLD ON THE COAST ARE ALREADY ECONOMICALLY IMPACTED BY CLIMATE CHANGE. SO WE NEED TO KEEP WORKING ON THAT. IT'S GOTTA BE A TOP PRIORITY FOR US. UM, ANOTHER ACTIVITY, I, I PARTICIPATED IN A SURVEY CALLED CIVICS PLUS. THEY CAME OUT WITH A REPORT AFTER DOING THE SURVEY OF, OF MANY, MANY, UH, UH, CIVIL GOVERNMENT FOLKS LIKE OURSELVES, CITIES, AND COUNTIES. AND THE BOTTOM LINE FROM THAT, FROM THE REPORT THAT I JUST GOT BACK WAS THAT THE, UH, CONTENTIONS AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, UM, ARE, ARE NOT THE SAME AS WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE CITY LEVEL. UM, [00:45:01] BUT THE CITIES DO STILL HAVE CONTINUOUS, UH, DISCUSSIONS AND WE JUST NEED TO HAVE MORE ENGAGEMENT, UM, WITH OUR COMMUNITIES TO SOLVE ISSUES HERE. AND THAT IS MUCH BETTER HERE. 'CAUSE WE CAN SOLVE 'EM LOCALLY. WE CAN SOLVE THINGS LOCALLY. SO THEY, UH, SO THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS FROM, FROM SURVEYING MANY, MANY, MANY CITIES, UH, AND COUNTIES WAS THAT, UH, YOUTH CIVICS PROGRAMMING AND VOLUNTEER ACTIVITIES ARE SOME OF THE KEY THINGS TO CREATE CIVIC PARTNERS FOR LIFE. UH, AND WE'RE WORKING ON THOSE TWO THINGS COULD IMPROVE, UM, ANY SITUATION IN ANY CITY. BUT THAT WAS THE FINAL RESULTS OF THAT REPORT. SO THAT'S MY REPORT FOR THE THIS WEEK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COUNCIL MEMBER QUINT. THANK YOU. UH, SO ON THE 20TH I WAS ABLE, UH, WITH SEVERAL MEMBERS, UH, SEVERAL FOLKS THAT ARE HERE, UH, WAS ABLE TO ATTEND THE FLOATING SOLAR PRESENTATION AT THE WATER TREATMENT PLANT, UH, WAS VERY IMPRESSIVE. I JUST WANNA TAKE A MOMENT AND COMMEND, UM, THE CITY STAFF FOR LIKE, GETTING THAT DONE. LIKE PROJECTS ON THAT SCALE ARE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU THINK OF ALL OF THE REGULATORY STUFF AND THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS AND, AND AND AND SUCH, IT'S REALLY HARD TO GET PROJECTS LIKE THAT DONE. AND, UH, SO IT WAS IMPRESSIVE. AND, UH, I, SO I JUST WANT TO THANK WHOEVER CAME UP WITH THAT IDEA IN 2020 AND THEY SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA? THEY SHOULD, WE SHOULD BUY THEM LUNCH. UM, . SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. ON THE 18TH, UH, WITH, UH, I WAS WITH, UH, THE MAYOR AND VICE MAYOR AT A GOVERNMENT CLA UH, GOVERNMENT CLASS PANEL DISCUSSION AT PETALUMA, UH, HIGH SCHOOL. UH, SO I HAD A, UH, THAT WAS A GREAT TIME. AND THEN, UH, AT THE LAST TRANSIT ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING, I JUST WANNA SHARE THAT, UH, THE TRANSIT ADVISORY COMMITTEE RECEIVED A FOLLOW UP BUDGET PRESENTATION, UH, THE TRANSIT BUDGET FOR THE FORTHCOMING FISCAL YEARS PROJECTING A SHORTFALL. THAT'S NOT A SURPRISE TO MOST PEOPLE, AND IT'S LIKELY GONNA REQUIRE SOME DIFFICULT DECISIONS. UM, TAC HAS REQUESTED A WORKSHOP, UH, HAS REQUESTED THAT STAFF COME BACK WITH A WORKSHOP WITH SOME OPTIONS SO THAT, UH, T CAN REALLY PROVIDE INPUT AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL. UH, AND, UH, AND, AND SO I'M BRINGING IT UP NOW BECAUSE, UM, I WANT THE PUBLIC TO JUST BE AWARE OF THAT AND IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU, SHOW UP AND HEAR WHAT IS PRESENTED AND MAKE YOUR VOICE, UH, YOU KNOW, MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD. AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU. AND, UM, YOU'LL ALSO BE HAVING A, UM, JOINT MEETING THIS WEEK ON THE LAKEVILLE QUARTER. THAT'S SORT OF A BIG DEAL WITH CALTRANS, RIGHT? THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT. UM, A JOINT, UH, TRANSIT AND, UH, PBA YEAH. HOPING, UH, PEOPLE ATTEND AND, UH, CONTRIBUTE TO THAT DIALOGUE, RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY. COUNCIL MEMBER DE CARLY. EVENING, EVERYBODY. UH, FIRST OFF, I HOPE EVERYONE HAD A NICE THANKSGIVING AND GOT TO SPEND PLENTY OF TIME WITH THEIR FAMILY. I HAVE, UH, ONE UPDATE FOR THIS EVENING, AND THAT'S FROM PARKS AND REC. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE SEEN IT BY NOW, BUT UH, LAST MONTH THEY JUST REOPENED THE AQUATIC CENTER. THEY'VE MADE LOTS OF UPGRADES DOWN THERE TO THE LOCKER ROOMS, TO THE POOL, TO EVERYTHING. THERE'S NEW MANAGEMENT DOWN THERE, NEW SWIM TIMES, UM, NEW WAYS TO APPLY FOR IT, PRICING. SO, YOU KNOW, IF, IF, IF YOU'RE A SWIMMER, GO CHECK IT OUT. UM, IT'S PRETTY COOL. AND THEN, UH, WE ALSO FORM TWO AD HOC COMMITTEES. THE FIRST, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY WANNA START A COMMUNITY DRIVEN EDUCATIONAL CAMPAIGN TO PICK UP TRASH WITHIN THE PARKS AND IN OUR TRAILS AND, AND TO KEEP THOSE CLEAN AND, AND INSPIRE A SENSE OF PRIDE AND OWNERSHIP IN, IN OUR PARKS IN TOWN. AND THEN, UH, THE OTHER AD HOC COMMITTEE WAS FOR THE PARKS MASTER PLAN, WHICH, UH, THIS WAS SOME OPTIMISM BY STAFF, BUT THEY'RE HOPING THAT NEXT YEAR THAT THE MASTER PLAN WILL START. SO THEY'VE ALREADY, UM, JUMPED THE GUN AND PUT THEIR AD HOC TOGETHER AND THEY'RE READY TO GO FOR THAT. AND THAT IS MY UPDATE FOR TONIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE. THANK YOU. UM, I ACTUALLY WAS TALKING TO A PARKS COMMISSIONER AND SHE WAS ELATED TO HEAR ABOUT THAT AD HOC. SO, UM, REALLY EXCITED FOR IT. UM, SO PLANNING COMMISSION JUST HAD A MEETING ON OUR, UM, LAND USE MAP. IT'LL BE COMING TO COUNCIL, UH, SHORTLY, UM, TO, UM, ADOPT A FINAL LAND USE MAP. UM, I WAS ABLE TO ATTEND THE REDWOOD EMPIRE FOOD BANK. UM, JUST, UH, WAS BASICALLY DOING PROMOTION TO TRY AND HELP THEM RAISE MORE DONATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, SONOMA CLEAN POWER MADE A $40,000 DONATION, UM, BUT JUST IN GENERAL, UM, REALLY APPRECIATIVE TO ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY, WHETHER YOU VOLUNTEER YOUR TIME, UM, OR YOUR MONEY OR WHATEVER IT IS, UM, FOR HELPING TO PICK EVERYBODY UP AND MAKE SURE THAT, [00:50:01] UM, NOBODY IS GOING HUNGRY DURING THIS TIME OF YEAR. UM, AND THEN FINALLY, I'M REALLY EXCITED TO SEE LIMA ICE COME BACK THIS YEAR AND CAN'T WAIT TO GET, GET BACK OUT ON THE SKATES. OKAY. COUNCIL MEMBER CATER THOMPSON. UM, I JUST HAD ONE AD HOC MEETING, WHICH WAS SMART. UM, AND WE'RE JUST, WE'RE MOVING TOWARD HILLSBURG AND SO WE JUST KEEP MOVING FORWARD AND THAT'S EXCITING. AND, UM, AND THEN I HAVE A-S-C-T-C-A MEETING NEXT WEEK. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR. THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. AS WE CLOSED OUT NOVEMBER, I HAD THE PLEASURE OF JOINING THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBER QUINT AT THE PETALUMA HIGHS GOVERNMENT CLASS. LET ME SAY, ONCE AGAIN, THESE STUDENTS ARE AMAZING AND OUR FUTURE IS BRIGHT. THESE STUDENTS ASK THOUGHTFUL, CHALLENGING QUESTIONS ON HOW OUR CITY WORKS, AND THEY REMINDED ME THAT THE NEXT GENERATION OF VOTERS IS ALREADY PLAY PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION. AND MANY HAVE ALREADY VOTED 'CAUSE THEY TURNED 18. THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING TO CITY HALL TONIGHT. I HOPE YOU NOTICED A BEAUTIFUL LANDSCAPING OUT IN FRONT. THIS WAS MADE POSSIBLE THANKS TO DAILY EX VOLUNTEERS AND MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY, AND THEY WEREN'T AFRAID OF GETTING A LITTLE MUD ON THEIR FEET SINCE THEY WERE DOING THE WORK RIGHT AFTER THE RAINS. AND I WAS THERE, BUT I MAINLY MOVED A LITTLE BIT OF STRAW, DID NOT WORK AS HARD AS THEY WERE WITH THOSE WHEELBARROWS. AND AFTER GETTING MY BOOTS A LITTLE DIRTY, I HEADED OVER TO ELLIS CREEK WATER RECYCLING FACILITY TO SEE THE CITY'S BRAND NEW FLOATING SOLAR INSTALLATION. ANOTHER STEP FORWARD IN OUR, IN OUR CITY'S SUSTAINABILITY LEADERSHIP. AND I'M VERY PROUD, I WAS ALSO HONORED TO REPRESENT THE MAYOR IN READING THE CITY OF PETALUMA'S 90TH ANNIVERSARY PROCLAMATION TO THE PETALUMA LADIES GUILD. THESE LADIES ARE A SMALL AND MIGHTY GROUP WHO RAISED A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF FUNDS TO SUPPORT CHILDREN AND LITERACY IN OUR COMMUNITY. THEIR DEDICATION IS TRULY INSPIRING. I HOPE EVERYONE HAS BEEN SHOPPING LOCAL THIS SEASON BETWEEN PETALUMA FOOD FEST, SMALL BUSINESS SATURDAY, THE GINGERBREAD HOUSE COMPETITION, THIS SATURDAY'S RIVER ROAD ARRIVAL. THERE ARE SO MANY WAYS TO SUPPORT OUR LOCAL BUSINESSES. I DID MY PART, I EVEN BROUGHT A BAG FROM ONE OF OUR LOCAL STORES AND I, UM, SUPPORTED OUR LANDMARK, UM, NEON SIGN THAT'S BEING RESTORED. SO THE MONEY THAT I SPENT WILL GO TO HELP THIS LANDMARK MAY RESTORED. SO THAT'S A GREAT WAY OF, OF DOING TWO THINGS, GETTING THINGS ON YOUR GIFT LIST AND HELPING THE COMMUNITY. AND THE, BY THE WAY, IF YOU WERE HEARING SIRENS AND SINGING AND HONKING CARS THIS EVENING AND MAYBE EVEN JOLLY ST. NICHOLAS, THAT WAS THE PETAL MISS SANTA SANTA SAFETY PARADE. TONIGHT WAS THE WEST SIDE NEAR CITY HALL THAT WE HEARD. AND THEN TOMORROW NIGHT WE'LL RUN FROM WASHINGTON STREET AROUND MOUNTAIN, UH, PARKWAY. AND WEDNESDAY NIGHT, SANTA WILL BE VISITING MY DISTRICT THREE NEIGHBORHOOD IN ALL THE AREAS OF THE EAST MCDOWELL BOULEVARD OVER. I HEARD HUGE THANK YOU TO OUR POLICE AND FIRE DEPARTMENTS FOR PUTTING ON THIS BELOVED ANNUAL TRADITION OF GOOD CHEER COMMUNITY FUND. AND WE APPRECIATE ALL THAT THEY DO. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, AND I TOO, HOPE EVERYONE HAD A, UH, VERY HAPPY THANKSGIVING AND, UH, REITERATE, UH, COUNCILMAN BARN'S POINT THAT WE ALL NEED TO BE MORE MINDFUL NOW THAN EVER. UM, RE REGARDING GENER OUR GENEROSITY AND CARE FOR THOSE WHO HAVE IT MORE DIFFICULT, UM, MORE NOW THAN EVER. AND I DO HAD HOPE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO SEE SANTA ARRIVE THIS WEEKEND. THAT WAS QUITE THE EVENT. UM, AND IT POINTS OUT THE NECESSITY TO KEEP THE RIVER DREDGED. AND I'M A BIG SHOUT OUT TO STAFF AND THE TEAM FROM THE CORE ENGINEERS WHO GOT THAT DONE. UH, AND, AND, UH, FOR SOME THAT WAS EQUALLY AS EXCITING AS SANTA. SO, UH, IN ON MY COMMITTEE AT THE COUNTY WITH THE CONTINUUM OF CARE BOARD, UM, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FUNDING FOR HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS HAS THROWN ANOTHER CHALLENGE OUT OUR WAY. THEY'RE IMPLEMENTING MUCH MORE RESTRICTIVE USES THAN, UH, FOR THEIR FUNDS, THAN TYPICAL. AND THEY'RE SHORTENING, SHORTENING THE APPLICATION TIME. IT'LL BE HARDER IN THE UPCOMING YEAR FOR US TO FUND OUR HOMELESSNESS AND HOUSING PROGRAMS. AND AS YOU'VE NOTED IN, YOU MAY HAVE SEEN IN THE NEWSPAPER FOR THOSE WHO READ THE NEWSPAPER, UM, THAT, UH, THERE COULD BE MANY OF PEOPLE OUT ON THE STREET WITH THIS CHANGE FROM OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. AND THAT'S NOT GOOD. UM, ALSO HAD A CHANCE TO, UH, GO, UH, TO A MEETING ABOUT LOCAL FUNDING FOR THE HOMELESS IN RESPONSE TO THIS. AND IS AT THE CARITAS CENTER RUN BY CATHOLIC CHARITIES IN SANTA ROSA. AND IT'S AMAZING WHAT THEY PULLED TOGETHER JUST A COUPLE YEARS AGO INTO ONE PROJECT. THEY [00:55:01] PULL IN PERMANENT HOU, PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING, A CLINIC, A FAMILY CENTER, AND MORE. UH, IT'S ALSO NEEDED IN IN IT. MORE IS NEEDED. WE NEED TO DO THIS MORE. UM, AGAIN, UH, I THINK WE MENTIONED, UM, OUR HOW MUCH FUN WE HAD AT THE, UH, HIGH SCHOOL CLASS AND, AND HOW MUCH FUN WE HAD TOURING THE ELLIS CREEK, UH, FLOATING PANELS. UH, I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT, UM, UPCOMING, WE HAVE OUR BI LIT BICYCLE HOLIDAY EVENT, WHICH IS DECEMBER 19TH, SO I KNOW IT TAKES A FEW WEEKS TO DECORATE YOUR BIKE. SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT OUT EARLY. AND ALSO THIS IS THE TIME OF YEAR WHEN OUR COUNCIL REASSIGNS OUR LIAISON APPOINTMENTS IN INTERN INTERNALLY AND SEE IF, IF THERE'D BE NEW APPOINTMENTS IN THE NEW YEAR. AND SO THAT WILL BE ARISING AS A, A COUNCIL TOPIC OVER, UM, COMPLETING IN THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. AND WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO PASS [CITY MANAGER COMMENT] IT OVER TO OUR CITY MANAGER. THANK YOU MAYOR, COUNCIL AND COMMUNITY. UM, WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT DREDGING IS GOING TO CONTINUE THROUGH DECEMBER 10TH. THE ARMY CORPS GOT THAT WINDOW EXTENDED BECAUSE WANNA MAKE IT THROUGH THE TURNING BASIN, SO TRYING TO GET IT ALL DREDGED NOW. UM, COTS, WINTER WARMING CENTER IS NOW OPEN. UM, IT'S LOCATED AT 900 HOPPER STREET, UH, HOURS OF OPERATION. IT'S OPEN TO ANYONE, UM, NEEDING, UM, WARMTH AND, UM, BED AND SPACE AND FOOD FROM 6:00 PM TO 8:30 AM SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, UH, COMMUNITY MEMBERS WILL RECEIVE DINNER, BREAKFAST, AND A LUNCH TO GO. AND OUR HOME FIRST OUTREACH TEAM WILL BE ON SITE ON FRIDAYS TO CONNECT AND ENGAGE THE MEMBERS WITH AVAILABLE SERVICES. UH, THE PETALUMA, UH, CITY OF PETALUMA IS, UM, CONTINUING TO STRENGTHEN OUR COMMUNICATIONS WITH OUR MOBILE HOME RESIDENTS IN ALL SEVEN MOBILE HOME COMMUNITIES. AND TO ENSURE WE CAN SHARE IMPORTANT UPDATES, RESOURCES, EMERGENCY INFORMATION, WE'VE GOT SOME, UM, FORMS IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM. PLEASE SHARE THAT WITH RESIDENTS. UM, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA BE ABLE TO SHARE INFORMATION TIMELY, AND WE KNOW YOU'RE DOING ALL YOU CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT INFORMATION'S GETTING OUT THERE, BUT WE'D LOVE TO BE ABLE TO STRENGTHEN THAT. UM, YOU CAN, UM, EMAIL THAT TO US. YOU COULD DROP IT OFF AT CITY HALL AND YOU CAN EVEN LEAVE A VOICEMAIL AT 7 7 8 4 4 6 7 OR EMAIL US AT HOUSING@CITYOFPETALUMA.ORG. WE ALSO HAVE LIGHT UP THE LIFE, UH, THE CITY, UM, IS PARTNERING AGAIN WITH, UH, PROVIDENCE HO, UM, PROVIDENCE HOSPICE, AND WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR THE PAST 36 YEARS, UH, TO HOST THIS EVENT. UM, AND THAT IS LIGHTING UP THE TREE AT WALNUT PARK ON FRIDAY, DECEMBER 5TH. AND I DON'T HAVE A TIME, SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT TIME IS. I APOLOGIZE. MAYBE SOMEBODY, MAYBE, I THINK THE TREE LIGHTING IS AT SIX AT WALNUT PARK. YEAH. THANK YOU. SO SIX O'CLOCK , UM, AND LUMA ICE. THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE, WE'RE EXCITED TO WELCOME BACK LUMA ICE TO THE FAIRGROUNDS. IT'LL BE DECEMBER 10TH THROUGH JANUARY 6TH. UM, WE WILL BE OFFERING THAT EXPERIENCE INDOORS AT THE EXPO HALL THIS YEAR IN PARTNERSHIP WITH MICKELSON TREE FARMS. AND THERE'LL BE ADDITIONAL FEATURES LIKE HOLIDAY, UM, HOLIDAY DISPLAYS, TRACTOR RIDES, JUMP HOUSES. UM, WE ENCOURAGE FOLKS TO PURCHASE TICKETS AHEAD OF TIME ON OUR DEDICATED WEBSITE, WHICH IS NOW LIVE LUMA ICE.COM. AND YOU'LL FIND DISCOUNTED SKATING PACKAGES AND MORE INFORMATION HOURS, SPECIAL EVENTS AND PARTY RESERVATIONS. AND A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL OF OUR SPONSORS, UM, AND OUR PRESENTING SPONSOR, EXCHANGE BANK. SO SEE YOU ON THE ICE. AND THEN FINALLY, UH, NEXT WEDNESDAY WE HAVE AN OPEN HOUSE ON OUR PETALUMA NORTH SPECIFIC PLAN. AND THAT IS GOING TO BE AT THE COMMUNITY ROOM AT THE LUCCHESE CENTER, DECEMBER 10TH AT 6:00 PM AND IT'S OPEN FOR ALL INTERESTED COMMUNITY MEMBERS, NOT FOLKS JUST IN THE PLAN AREA, BUT ALL THROUGHOUT THE CITY. SO HOPE YOU CAN, UM, MAKE THAT. AND IF NOT, PLEASE UH, LOOK FOR MORE INFORMATION FOR UPDATES ON OUR WEBSITE. AND THAT CONCLUDES MY COMMENTS TONIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND, UM, THAT BRINGS US TO OUR [CONSENT CALENDAR] CONSENT CALENDAR FOR THE EVENING, AND I'LL GIVE A LITTLE MINUTE FOR A LINE CHANGE HERE. THANK YOU. [01:00:03] ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, TONIGHT WITH OUR CONSENT CALENDAR, UH, I'M LOOKING UP AND DOWN THE DIOCESE TO SEE WHETHER WE HAVE ANYONE WISHING TO PULL AN ITEM AND, UM, OR HAVE QUESTIONS ON IT. AND SO, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER SCHIBS. OKAY, ON ITEM NUMBER FOUR, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH OUR SCHEDULE OF MEETINGS FOR COMING UP THIS NEXT YEAR, BUT INSIDE THE DOC, THE RESOLUTION, UH, THERE IS ANOTHER STATEMENT THERE THAT SAYS, UM, THAT ALL REGULAR MEETINGS OF THE CITY COUNCIL SHALL START AT SIX 30 UNLESS OTHERWISE ALTERED BY MAJORITY VOTE AT TIME OF APPRO OF THE TENTATIVE AGENDA. SO I THOUGHT, I JUST, UH, WAS WONDERING IF FOLKS WOULD BE INTERESTED IN HAVING A LITTLE DISCUSSION ON OUR START TIMES, WHETHER WE WANNA CHANGE THAT OR NOT. UM, UH, THAT'S IN THIS RESOLUTION THERE. IF, IF ALSO IS ANOTHER PO POSSIBLE DISCUSSION IS ORDER OF AGENDA, UM, OR OTHER THINGS. OUR, OUR AGENDAS AT LEAST WAY WE'VE BEEN OPERATING FOR THE LAST COUPLE YEARS. THINGS HAVE BEEN GOING LONG, PAST 11 O'CLOCK MOST OF THE TIME, IN FACT, ALMOST ALL THE TIME EXCEPT FOR ONCE OR TWICE. SO, UH, JUST IS IT WORTHY TO HAVE A LITTLE DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS, BUT PARTICULARLY ABOUT THE START TIME, CAN WE MOVE IT UP TO MAYBE FIVE 30 OR EVEN SIX O'CLOCK AND AT LEAST START EARLIER SO THAT WE, UH, GET THE, UM, GET A LITTLE MORE COMPLETION A LITTLE EARLIER IN THE EVENING, ESPECIALLY FOR THE LATER ITEMS WHICH ARE MORE IMPORTANT. I THOUGHT I'D JUST BRING IT UP IF, UH, FOLKS WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THAT AT THIS TIME. GOOD QUESTION. GOOD QUESTION. I'D LIKE TO LEAVE THE ANSWER FOR AFTER PUBLIC COMMENT AND BACK, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A ON THAT AND NO OTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF IN THIS. UM, GREAT. THEN LET'S OPEN PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE ITEM FOR THE EVENING. AND I'D LIKE TO INVITE OUR CLERK IN AT THIS MOMENT. UH, WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY COMMENTS AHEAD OF THE MEETING ON THE CONSENT CALENDAR, BUT AT THIS TIME, I WILL START A 32ND CLOCK. UH, WELL, MAYBE I WON'T, THERE'S NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE . IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO SUBMIT A CARD, NOW'S THE MOMENT. ALMOST MORE STAFF. OKAY. NOT SEEING ANYONE RISE AND MOVE FORWARD AND NOT HAVING ANY CARDS AT THE CLERK'S DESK FOR GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT. UH, OR, UM, FOR THE CONSENT CALENDAR, UH, THE CONSENT CALENDAR IS PUBLIC COMMENT, PERIOD IS CLOSED. UH, BRING IT BACK UP TO COUNCIL AND I INVITE COUNCIL MEMBERS TO WEIGH IN ON THE CONCEPT OF COUNCIL MEMBER REBS, ANYONE, UM, HAVE A POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE. AND COUNCIL, UH, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER QUINT, I'M IN FAVOR OF AN EARLIER START TIME AT FIVE 30 OR SIX. AND THANK YOU COUNCILOR BARNACLE. YEAH, FIVE 30 OR SIX WORKS FOR ME. UM, IN TERMS OF AGENDA STRUCTURE, UH, I, I'M, I'M OPEN TO IT. HONESTLY. I THINK I WOULD LEAVE IT TO THE PEOPLE MAKING THE AGENDA TO IDENTIFY THOSE, THOSE ITEMS THAT WE WANT TO GET MORE PUBLIC COMMENT ON. UM, I WAS AT AN EVENT RECENTLY AND SOMEONE SAID THAT, UM, FOR ITEMS THAT ARE NON-CONTENTIOUS AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING, THEY WOULD JUST SAY PERMISSION TO WAIVE PRESENTATION AND THEY WOULD WAIVE THE PRESENTATION AND GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT, CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT, AND THEY'D MOVE THROUGH ITEMS LIKE THAT. UM, SO I THINK PART OF GETTING OUT EARLIER IS JUST ON US TOO AND OUR MEETING, LIKE BEING MINDFUL THAT WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE A COMMENT ON EVERYTHING. UM, BUT I'M OPEN TO SIX O'CLOCK, BUT I WOULD ALSO BE JUST OPEN TO FLEXING THE AGENDA AND USING YOUR PREROGATIVE MAYOR, UM, TO MOVE CERTAIN ITEMS UP EARLIER IN THE MEETING AND THINGS LIKE THAT TOO. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, VICE MAYOR, WELL, I'M GONNA REMIND EVERYBODY THAT 20 YEARS AGO WE HAD A THREE O'CLOCK MEETING AND WE HAD THINGS LIKE THE CONSENT CALENDAR, SO STAFF DIDN'T HAVE TO HANG AROUND TILL MIDNIGHT. UM, AND THEN PRESENTATIONS AND THE METEOR THINGS WERE AT THE SIX O'CLOCK MEETING. SO I AM ALL IN FAVOR OF WHATEVER MAKES LIFE EASIER FOR STAFF. UM, I'M RETIRED. I DON'T KNOW HOW I DID IT WHEN I WAS TEACHING AND I HAD TO GET UP AT FIVE THE NEXT MORNING. BUT ANYTHING TO GET STAFF OUTTA HERE, BECAUSE I KNOW THEY'RE BACK HERE IN THE MORNING DOING THEIR JOBS AND I SO APPRECIATE YOU. BUT WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE STAFF AND WHAT WE COULD DO TO, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE A THREE O'CLOCK MEETING, GET RID OF ALL THE CONSENT CALENDAR THINGS AND THE NON REALLY TOXIC ITEMS. I WOULD SAY , AND THEN BRING BACK THOSE ONES AT THE, AND THE PUBLIC WANTS TO BE ABLE TO COMMENT MAYBE IN THE AFTERNOON AND STUDENTS COULD MAYBE PARTICIPATE MORE WHERE THEY CAN'T IN THE EVENING MEETINGS. SO THAT'S MY 2 CENTS. THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER CATER THOMPSON. JUST TWO PEOPLE THERE. LIKE I HAVE S-C-T-C-A, WHICH ENDS AT FIVE ON ONCE A MONTH ON A MONDAY. SO WE'D [01:05:01] HAVE TO KIND OF LOOK AT THE SCHEDULE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A CONFLICT. SO, UM, BROADLY I'M HEARING THAT THERE'S A AGREEMENT THAT MAYBE WE CAN MODIFY OUR, UH, TIME START TIMES AS WE GO FORWARD AND MAYBE MODIFY SOME AGENDA AF ACTIVITIES AS WE GO FORWARD. UM, AND I THINK WE CAN USE THAT AS DIRECTION TO STAFF AND PROCEED WITH THE CONSENT CALENDAR, THE ITEMS WRITTEN THE WAY THEY ARE, UM, WITH, UM, ALREADY WE HAVE FULL LATITUDE TO MODIFY START TIMES. UM, BUT WHAT WE'LL WANNA DO IS SET A PATTERN WHERE PUBLIC KNOWS AND CAN ANTICIPATE WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO. SO I'D, I'D LIKE TO HAVE, UH, GIVE STAFF A CHANCE TO KICK THAT FRESH IDEA AROUND AND, UH, IN THE NEW YEAR, COME OUT WITH A NEW PROPOSAL AND MAYBE, MAYBE WE WILL ADOPT AN ACTION AT THAT POINT AS TO, UH, WHAT, WHAT A BETTER PLAN WILL BE. IT'LL ALSO GIVE US A LITTLE CHANCE TO GIVE MORE DIRECT FEEDBACK TO, UH, UM, CITY MANAGER, UH, FOR HER TRYING TO COALESCE THE BEST IDEA FOR, FOR ALL PUBLIC AND COUNCIL AND STAFF. ARE WE GOOD WITH THAT? COUNCIL MEMBER DE CARLY? UM, I THINK I'D BE OKAY WITH A SIX O'CLOCK START TIME, I THINK. UH, BUT IT DOESN'T, I MEAN, THE BIGGER PROBLEM THOUGH IS, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STILL GONNA TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME IN, IN THE MEETINGS. SO I, I THINK EFFICIENCY WISE, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO LOOK AT THINGS MORE. BUT, YOU KNOW, STARTING AT SIX O'CLOCK, UM, I, I DON'T THINK IT'S SUCH A BAD THING GIVING THE PUBLIC TIME TO GET HERE AFTER WORK, OR US TO GET HERE AFTER WORK FOR THOSE OF US THAT WORK STILL. UM, YOU KNOW, STARTING AT A LITTLE BIT EARLIER IS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL. I MEAN, I'M KIND OF SENSING THAT YOU'D BE LESS INCLINED TOWARDS A FIVE 30 START. YES, I'D PREFER SIX. AND, UM, AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO, UM, GO TO MY, UM, MORE BLUNT SIDE AND SAY PERHAPS, UM, THIS MIDNIGHT THING IS, UM, IF WE MOVE EARLIER, WE ALL GOTTA MAKE A COMMITMENT THAT WE WANT TO END EARLIER, NOT HAVE LONGER MEETINGS. SO, I MEAN, UH, I THINK THAT'S INCUMBENT ON SOME OF US. AND, UH, AND I APPRECIATE THE CONSTRUCTIVE OPPORTUNITIES THAT COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE RAISED. AND WITH THAT, I THINK WE'VE GIVEN DIRECTION TO STAFF. CAN I GET A MOTION ON THE, I, ONE MORE COMMENT ON, YEAH, PLEASE. UM, SEPTEMBER 21ST THAT WE HAVE IT ON THE WEEK BEFORE AND THE 21ST. IS THERE A REASON FOR THAT? THERE IS NO MEETING ON THE 21ST OF DECEMBER. NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT SEPTEMBER. OH, SEPTEMBER. WHICH IS, IS THAT YAM KAUR ONE OF THOSE, YEAH. UM, AND I BELIEVE THAT'S A QUESTION FOR THE CLERK. YEP. OKAY. HOLIDAY. YES. SOME OF THE MEETINGS HAVE BEEN MOVED AROUND IF A HOLIDAY FELL ON, IF, YEAH, THAT WAS IT. IT, IT'S LABOR DAY. IT FALLS ON LABOR DAY. UM, SO PLEASE LOOK FOR THE 21ST. SO THE 14TH. SO THE, THE MEETING TYPICALLY WOULD BE ON THE SEVENTH, BUT BECAUSE THAT'S, UH, A HOLIDAY, IT MOVES TO THE 14TH, THE 21ST IS THE STANDARD MEETING. IT JUST, IT'S BACK TO BACK BECAUSE OF THE HOLIDAY. AND THAT HAPPENED THIS YEAR AS WELL. NORMALLY, THERE WERE JUST TWO JEWISH HOLIDAYS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FOR MANY YEARS, LOOKED AT BEFORE THE SCHEDULE. AND THE 21ST IS ONE OF THEM OF SEPTEMBER. SO DO WE WANNA PUSH THE 21ST TO THE 28TH? RIGHT. AND THEN THERE'D BE A 28TH AND THEN WHATEVER THE OCTOBER, THE FOLLOWING MONDAY IS THE FIRST MEETING IN OCTOBER. OCTOBER. SO WE JUST SO BE BACK TO BACK, BUT FOLLOWING THAT. BUT THAT'S PROBABLY AN IT'S AMENABLE TO. SO, UM, WITH THAT ITEM MODIFIED IN THAT WAY, CAN I GET A MOTION FOR THE CONSENT CALENDAR? I'LL, I'LL MOVE APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR WITH AMENDING THE SEPTEMBER 21ST TO BE THE 28TH. AND, UH, I THINK THAT'S IT. SECOND. SO WE HAVE A MOTION BY BARNACLE AND A SECOND BY CATER THOMPSON. AND A ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE. BARNACLE. AYE. CATER THOMPSON? YES. TO CARLY? YES. UH, NOW, YES. QUINT? YES. SHRIVES? YES. MCDONALD? YES. WHICH IN CARRIES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, THAT TAKES [7. Public Hearing Regarding Adoption (Second Reading) of Ordinance No. 2914 N.C.S and Ordinance No. 2915 N.C.S of the City of Petaluma to Update the Petaluma Building and Fire Codes to Incorporate the 2025 California Building Standards Code (Title 24), Readopt Local Amendments to Title 24, 2024 International Property Maintenance Code and 2024 International Fire Code.] US TO OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS MATTERS FOR CONSIDERATION. WHERE ON ITEM SEVEN, WHICH IS A PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING ADOPTION. SECOND READING OF ORDINANCE, AN ORDINANCE 2 9 1 4, AND ALSO 2 9 1 5. CITY OF PETALUMA TO UPDATE THE PETALUMA BUILDING AND FIRE CODES TO INCORPORATE THE 2025 BUILDING STANDARDS CODE TITLE 24, AND TO READOPT, UM, LOCAL AMENDMENTS TO TITLE 24, INTERNATIONAL PROPERTY AND MAINTENANCE CODE AND THE 2024 INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE. AND, UH, [01:10:01] I DO LOVE SECOND READINGS OF ORDINANCES AND, UM, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY WERE UNANIMOUS, UH, APPROVAL IN THE FIRST ROUND. AND SO, UH, COUNCIL BARNACLE HAS A SUGGESTION FOR ACCELERATING MEETINGS. ARE, ARE, IS IT POSSIBLE THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ITEMS? UH, IS THERE UNIQUE INFORMATION TONIGHT ON THIS? NO, THERE IS NOT. IT IS CERTAINLY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR EXPEDITING THE AGENDA IF YOU SO CHOOSE. AND, AND SO, NOT THAT WE DON'T LOVE YOU, BUT, UM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR, UH, THAT PRESENTATION. . I'D LIKE TO TAKE IT TO A PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THE EVENING. DO WE HAVE COMMENTS ON THAT? WE DO NOT HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT ITEM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THAT CLOSES PUBLIC COMMENT ON THAT ITEM AND THAT BRINGS TO, UH, STAFF. DO WE HAVE ANY COMMENT OR MOTION ON THIS ITEM? OH, MOTION . SO WE HAVE A MOTION BY CATER THOMPSON. SECOND. SECOND BY NOW. AND WE HAVE A ROLL CALL. VOTE PLEASE. UH, VANEL AYE. CATER THOMPSON? YES. DI CARLY? YES. NOW? YES. QUINT? YES. SHRIVES? YES. MCDONALD? YES. MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT. AND IT'S CRITICAL THAT YOU'RE HERE 'CAUSE THINGS GO SIDEWAYS AND, YOU KNOW, DO, WE MIGHT THINK WE HAVE AN EASY ITEM, BUT BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC, THAT IS NOT A GUARANTEE. SO I APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE. ABSOLUTELY. AND VERY MUCH HAPPY TO. THANK YOU SO MUCH, AND CONGRATULATIONS ON SO EXPEDITIOUSLY, UH, CLOSING ON YOUR GOALS. HAVE A WONDERFUL REST OF YOUR MEETING. MY NEW GOAL FOR 2020. THERE WE GO. THANK YOU. AND NOW, UH, [8. Introduction (First Reading) of an Ordinance of the City Council of the City of Petaluma Amending Section 13.45.030 “Public Use” in Chapter 13.45 Entitled “Preservation and Access to Lafferty Ranch” of the Petaluma Municipal Code to Provide for Continued Passive Recreational Use of Lafferty Ranch by the Public in Accordance with the Purposes and Requirements of Chapter 13.45] WE, ITEM EIGHT, WHICH IS A FIRST READING OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL IN THE CITY OF PETALUMA, AMENDING SECTION 13 45 30 PUBLIC USE IN CHAPTER 1345 REGARDING, UM, PRESERVATION AND ACCESS TO LAFFERTY RANCH. SO TO HELP US WITH THIS TONIGHT, WE HAVE, UH, PATRICK CARTER, UH, OUR ASSISTANT TO THE CITY MANAGER. PATRICK, WHAT DO WE HAVE? THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBERS. UM, HARD TO FOLLOW UP. SUCH A WONDERFUL PRESENTATION. UM, BUT I'LL TRY MY BEST TO MAKE THIS QUICK AS WELL. THE 270 ACRE LAFFERTY RANCH PROPERTY, WHICH WAS PART OF THE CITY'S WATER SUPPLY SYSTEM FROM 1959 UNTIL 1992, IS AN INCREDIBLE PUBLIC ASSET. IT HAS BREATHTAKING VIEWS OF THE PETALUMA VALLEY, SAN PABLO BAY, AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. ORDINANCE NUMBER 2022, ADDED CHAPTER 13 POINT 45, ENTITLED PRESERVATION AND PUBLIC ACCESS TO LAFFERTY RANCH, TO THE PETALUMA MUNICIPAL CODE IN 1996 WITH A CLEAR INTENT TO ALLOW PASSIVE RECREATIONAL PUBLICLY USE OF THE PROPERTY. A PUBLIC ACCESS MANAGEMENT PLAN WAS DEVELOPED, STUDIED, AND EI AND AN EII CERTIFIED. UH, BUT THE PROJECT DID NOT, UH, PROCEED AT THE TIME DUE TO LITIGATION BROUGHT BY NEIGHBORING PROPERTY OWNERS STARTING IN 2020. IMPROVEMENTS THAT WOULD ALLOW DOCENT LED HIKES BY LAND PASS AND ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION AND CONSERVATION. NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION BEGAN AND WERE FOLLOWED BY PUBLIC HIKES. UM, DOCENT LED HIKES THEMSELVES, THE IMPROVEMENTS AND THE LIMITED ACCESS DOCENT LED HIKES WERE ANALYZED AT THE TIME AND FOUND TO BE CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT FROM CACA WITH NOTICES OF EXEMPTION FILED. THIS PROPOSED ORDINANCE UNDER CONSIDERATION TONIGHT WOULD RATIFY AND FORMALIZE THE ONGOING DOCENT PROGRAM AT LAFFERTY RANCH IN THE PET MUNICIPAL CODE, CONSISTENT WITH THE EXISTING INTENT OF CHAPTER 13 POINT 45, THE PRESERVATION AND PUBLIC ACCESS TO LAFFERTY RANCH IN OUR MUNICIPAL CODE, THE DOCENT LED HIKES WOULD CONTINUE IN THEIR CURRENT CONFIGURATION, ALLOWING, UH, UP TO 10 HIKES PER MONTH AND UP TO 20 PARTICIPANTS PER HIKE. AND, UH, JUST AS A A REFERENCE POINT FOR HOW THE HIKES HAVE BEEN GOING SO FAR THIS YEAR, UM, THERE HAVE BEEN, UM, 30 SCHEDULED HIKES. TWO OF THEM WERE CANCELED DUE TO WEATHER, I BELIEVE, AND THERE'S STILL ONE THAT IS YET TO TAKE PLACE. SO WELL UNDERNEATH THAT 10 PER MONTH CAP THAT WE'VE SELF-IMPOSED, AND THE GUIDED HIKES TYPICALLY INVOLVE, UH, 10 TO 12 PARTICIPANTS PER HIKE. SO WITH THAT, UM, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE INTRODUCTION OF THIS ORDINANCE AND WE'RE AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, I THINK LAFFER IS A GEM IN THE SYSTEM, AND I'M GLAD THOSE PEOPLE, UH, HAVE HAD A CHANCE. AND I ASSUME MOST OF COUNCIL HAS BEEN ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE. UM, AND, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER REBS, WE HAVE A QUESTION. UH, YEAH. SO I'VE BEEN ON, ON, ON WITH, UH, DOCENTS WALKING UP THE HIKE. IT IS FABULOUS TO GO UP THERE AND, AND HIKE IT. UM, I KNOW THE TRAILS HAVE BEEN WORKED [01:15:01] ON. UM, SO IF WE ARE, UM, ARE WE CURRENTLY RAISING IT FROM, UH, THE CURRENT LEVEL UP TO 10? OR IS IT THE SAME? 10. AND OF THOSE 10, UM, ARE THE REQUIRED TO HAVE A DOCENT LED, UM, HIKE THAT, THAT'S NOT JUST A GROUP OF PEOPLE WANTING TO HIKE, BUT IT ACTUALLY IS A DOCENT LED CONTROLLED HIKE. SO JUST TO ENSURE THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT. IT'S THE CURRENT PROGRAM, WHICH HAS TO BE DOCENT LED HIKES, AND, UM, WE'VE DONE A SELF-IMPOSED LIMITATION OF 10 PER CALENDAR MONTH AND 20 PEOPLE PER HIKE. RIGHT. SO WE'RE NOT CHANGING THE 10 PER MONTH. CORRECT. THAT, THAT'S THE SAME AT A 350 PEOPLE RIGHT NOW, UH, PER MONTH GOING UP, UH, PER YEAR, GOING UP THERE AT 20 AT, AT A MANAGEABLE GROUP. NOT THAT MUCH OF A IMPACT, UH, AS HIKES GOES AND TRAILS GOES, WE'VE GOT 350 PEOPLE COMING TO SCHULLENBERGER PARK EVERY SINGLE DAY. SO JUST FOR COMPARISON. SO I THOUGHT I'LL JUST BRING THAT UP. THANKS. THANK YOU. UH, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COUNCIL MEMBER DE CARLY? HEY, PATRICK. UM, I HAVE SOME CLARIFICATION QUESTIONS ON IT. SO, YOU KNOW, IT SAYS WE'RE, WE'RE AMENDING THAT SECTION OF THE CODE, UM, BUT I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT, WHAT IT'S BEING CHANGED, WHAT WE'RE AMENDING, LIKE CHANGING IT TO, BECAUSE IT'S IDENTICAL TO WHAT'S PUBLISHED ON THE CITY'S, UH, IN THE, IN THE MUNICIPAL CODE RIGHT NOW IN THE CITY'S WEBSITE. AND SO I'M JUST, I'M JUST CURIOUS. YEAH, SO THERE'S A PARAGRAPH THAT GOT ADDED, IT'S IN THE STAFF REPORT. UM, AND IT ESSENTIALLY, I MEAN, I COULD READ IT VERBATIM, BUT ESSENTIALLY IT JUST, UH, RATIFIES WHAT I JUST SAID TO YOU, THAT IT, UM, THE DOCENT LED HIKES, THERE'S UP TO 10 PER CALENDAR MONTH AND THEY HAVE UP TO 20, UM, PARTICIPANTS PER HIKE. AND THAT PART ISN'T EXPLICIT IN THE EXISTING MUNICIPAL CODE, BUT THAT BOLD SECTION IN THE STAFF REPORT, UM, IS THE NEW LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING. OKAY. OKAY. GOTCHA. UM, AND THEN, I MEAN, IT, IT SAYS IT IN THERE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE A PUBLIC USE LAND MANAGEMENT PLAN YET, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. THE MANAGEMENT PLAN THAT WE, UM, STUDIED IN THE EIR WAS NEVER, UM, THE PROJECT NEVER WENT FORWARD. UM, I THINK THERE, I MEAN, IT'S CLEAR FROM THE INTENT OF THE LANGUAGE OF THE MUNICIPAL CODE THAT WE INTENDED TO DO SO, BUT, UM, WE'RE WRAPPED UP IN LITIGATION FOR MANY YEARS ON THAT. SO THIS ESSENTIALLY WOULD, UM, RATIFY THE CURRENT ACTIVITIES AND ALLOW THAT ACTIVITY TO CONTINUE THAT THE DOCENT LED HIKES. OKAY. I GUESS I HAVE TROUBLE WITH IT IS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE MANAGEMENT PLAN. IT'S KIND OF THE FOUNDATION FOR THAT SECTION. SO HOW DO WE MAKE A DECISION ON IT WHEN WE DON'T HAVE THAT FOUNDATION TO, YOU KNOW, IT, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE A BIG PIECE OF THAT'S MISSING AND, AND WE SHOULD HAVE HAD IT. WELL, I, I, OKAY, I SEE ERIC, SO COULD I, UM, ONE BEFORE BRINGING IN, IN, UM, BOTH OUR BUDGET DISCUSSIONS AND GOLD DISCUSSIONS IN YEARS PAST, WE'VE WRESTLED WITH THIS VERY ISSUE AND, UM, UH, BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A CLEAN PATH AND ON LITIGIOUS PATH TO THE SOLUTION, UH, WE STAYED, UH, AT, AT THIS SOLUTION, WE ARRIVED AT THIS SOLUTION, AND THE, UM, UH, THE GROUP'S ORIGINAL GOAL WAS TO HAVE UNLIMITED ACCESS, THE ADVOCACY GROUP, IF YOU WILL. UM, AND, UM, THIS IS AS FAR AS WE CAN GET WITHOUT EXTREME EXPENDITURE OF MONEY AND STAFF TIME. SO THAT'S PART OF THE LOGIC I RECALL. THAT'S RIGHT. AND I, AND IF I COULD JUST ADD COUNSEL, UM, AS, AS PATRICK MENTIONED, THERE WAS A VERY EXPENSIVE EIR THAT WAS DONE FOR A, A PRETTY EXPANSIVE, UH, SYSTEM OF TRAILS AND DEVELOPMENT OF WHAT'S REFERRED TO, UM, IN THE DOCUMENTS AS LAFFERTY RANCH PARK, UM, BACK, UM, YOU KNOW, DECADES AGO. AND THE EIR WAS CERTIFIED, BUT THE PROJECT, WHICH IS THE LAFFERTY RANCH MANAGEMENT PLAN WAS NEVER APPROVED BY THE COUNCIL AT THAT TIME, UM, AND DIDN'T GO FORWARD. AND THE REASON IT WASN'T WAS BECAUSE OF THREATS OF LITIGATION, UM, FROM, UM, THOSE OPPOSED THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY OWNERS OPPOSED TO THE PUBLIC'S, UM, ACCESS TO AND USE OF THEIR PROPERTY. AND SO, UM, BUT, BUT THE PURPOSE OF THAT CHAPTER THAT WAS ENACTED, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER KETER THOMPSON, I THINK, REMEMBERS THAT OTHERS WILL PRIOR COUNCIL MEMBERS, UM, WAS TO AFFORD THAT ACCESS. SO WHAT, WHAT THIS, UM, [01:20:01] ACTION WOULD DO WAS IN, WOULD ENSURE THE, UM, CONTINUED USE AS HAS BEEN PROGRAMMED CURRENTLY, AND YOU JUST HEARD THE SPECIFICS ABOUT THE DOCENT LED HIKES, UM, WOULD ALLOW THAT USE TO CONTINUE CONSISTENT WITH AND NOT INCONSISTENT WITH THIS, THE CITY'S MUNICIPAL CODE. AND SO THE, UM, NOW EXISTING LITIGATION, TWO CASES, UM, THAT MEAN TO, UM, PREVENT THE PUBLIC'S USE OF THEIR PROPERTY, UM, UM, UH, THIS ACTION BY THE COUNCIL WOULD, WOULD USE ITS LEGISLATIVE POWER TO ENSURE THAT THE CURRENT USE, UM, IS CONSISTENT WITH THE MUNI CODE. AND, AND THERE IS NO BASIS FOR CHALLENGING THAT CURRENT USE IN THE EXISTING LITIGATION. UM, WHILE THE CITY NO LONGER HAS, I, I, I THINK THE, THE CITY AT THE TIME SPENT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF A MILLION DOLLARS ON THE EIR WAY BACK, UM, AND NOW THERE'S NOT THE, THE CITY'S PARK DEVELOPMENT FEES HAVE BEEN UPDATED SOME YEARS AGO TO ALLOW PROCEEDS FROM THOSE FEES TO BE ABLE TO BE PROGRAMMED AT LAFFERTY, UM, RANCH. BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW, THEY'VE NOT BEEN, OR ONLY ON A LIMITED BASIS. UM, SO THERE ISN'T, ISN'T, UM, AS FAR AS I'M AWARE, FUNDING FOR SOMETHING LIKE AS EXPANSIVE AS AN UPDATED MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR LAFFERTY PARK. SO THIS PRESERVES THE PUBLIC ACCESS THAT THE COUNCIL ALWAYS INTENDED TO, UM, FOR THE PUBLIC'S PROPERTY, WHICH FOR THOSE OF US THAT HAVE BEEN THERE AS BREATHTAKING AS IS DESCRIBED. UM, AND SO THAT'S THE PURPOSE. THANKS. YEP. GOOD. AND, AND I, I APPRECIATE, UM, THE EFFORTS OF, UH, ALL THE ADVOCATES OF THE PAST COUNCIL MEMBER HEALY, UH, AND, UH, INDIVIDUAL FORMER COUNCIL MEMBER, UM, MATT MCGUIRE, UH, UH, LARRY MODELL, ALL OF WHOM I INVITED IN TONIGHT TO, TO ADDRESS THIS. AND, UM, AND, UH, SO ALL ARE AWARE AND, UH, ON, ON THAT. AND ALSO I THINK TO, TO COUNCIL MEMBER SCH SHRIMP'S POINT, I THINK HEIGHTENED USE WOULD REQUIRE HEIGHTENED, UH, CITY INVESTMENT TO MAKE PARK LAND PROTECTIVE LAND OUT OF IT. AND THAT'S NOT WHERE WE'VE LANDED FOR BEST USE OF CITY FUNDS AT THIS, YOU KNOW, QUITE RESOURCE CRITICAL TIME, UH, THE, SOME OF THE BACKGROUND ON THAT. GOOD. YEAH, NO, I'M GOOD. I MEAN, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE PUBLIC GOING UP THERE. IT'S JUST THE, I DON'T LIKE THE PROCESS OF THIS WHERE WE'RE MISSING A BIG CHUNK AGAIN OF SOMETHING. I, I KNOW THERE'S ALL THIS, THERE'S A LONG BATTLE, YOU KNOW, UP THERE. AND I THINK PART OF THE, UH, ISSUE IS WE'RE REALLY NOT READY TO WALK AWAY FROM TOTAL CLEAN ACCESS WITH A BIG PLAN. AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE READY TO WALK AWAY FROM THAT. SO WE LEAVE THAT, BUT WE ACTUALLY REVEAL AND DOCUMENT WHAT WE'RE INTENDING, UH, WHAT OUR PRACTICE IS SO THAT WE'RE NOT BEING SAID, WE'RE INCONSISTENT PRACTICE AND, UH, INTENTION. SO, UM, AND, UM, WE GOOD DOWN HERE? WE ALL GOOD? I DID ONE OTHER BEFORE I GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT. ONE OTHER THING. UH, I THINK LAND PATH HAS BEEN A GREAT PARTNER. UH, I THINK IT WAS BRILLIANT TO HOOK THEM IN ON THEIR ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE AND THEIR CARE OF NATURE'S, UH, UNPARALLEL. SO WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO OPEN IT TO PUBLIC COMMENT. WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY COMMENTS AHEAD OF THE MEETING. UH, OH, SORRY. ACTUALLY WE DID RECEIVE ONE RIGHT AT THE LAST MINUTE. UM, I DON'T HAVE ANY CARDS, BUT IF THERE'S ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT NOW IS THE MOMENT TO BRING A CARD AND NOT SEEING ANYONE STANDING, I CLOSE THIS PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ITEM. AND BACK TO COUNCIL, COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE. YEAH, I APPRECIATE THE ITEM AND I'LL, I'M HAPPY TO MOVE IT. HAPPY TO SECOND THAT. SO WE HAVE A, UH, A MOTION FROM BARNACLE AND A SECOND FROM CATER THOMPSON. AND MAY WE HAVE A ROLL CALL? VOTE BARNACLE. AYE. CATER THOMPSON? YES. DI CARLY? YES. NOW? YES, THAT WAS A YES. QUINT, YES. SHRI, YES. MCDONALD? YES. MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, I APPRECIATE STAFF WORK ON THIS. IT'S A, IT'S ANOTHER MILESTONE FOR GOOD THINGS PETALUMA IS DOING. UH, IT BRINGS US [9. Introduction (First Reading) of an Ordinance of the City Council of the City of Petaluma Adding Chapter 4.05, Entitled “Disqualification of Contractors” to Title 4, “Revenue and Finance,” of the Petaluma Municipal Code  – PUBLISHED 11-26-25] TO ITEM NINE, INTRODUCTION FIRST, READING OF AN ORDINANCE, THE CITY COUNCIL ADDING, UM, CHAPTER 4.05 ENTITLED DISQUALIFICATION OF CONTRACTORS TO THE TITLE FOUR REVENUE AND FINANCE OF THE PETALUMA MUNICIPAL CODE. AND TO HELP US WITH THIS, WE HAVE DYLAN BRADY, OUR ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. WELCOME DYLAN. THANK YOU MAYOR. CITY COUNCIL. I ALSO HAVE PAUL KOUL, OUR PUBLIC WORKS, UH, DIRECTOR, IF THERE'S ANY SPECIFIC PUBLIC WORKS QUESTIONS. UH, THIS IS AN ORDINANCE THAT OUR PUBLIC WORKS TEAM IS REALLY ECSTATIC ABOUT [01:25:01] AND HOPEFUL FOR. SO I'LL JUST, I HAVE 10 HOPEFULLY QUICK SLIDES. I'LL KIND OF SAY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AND OUR SOLUTION. UM, SO THIS CHAPTER IS 4 0 5. IT IS TITLED DISQUALIFICATION OF CONTRACTORS. SO CURRENTLY JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND IN THE LAW. OUR CITY CHARTER SECTION 68 REQUIRES ALL OF OUR PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS, AS WELL AS OUR, UH, CONTRACTS FOR GOODS, EQUIPMENT, MATERIAL TO GO TO THE LOWEST RESPONSIVE AND RESPONSIBLE BIDDER, UH, RESPONSIVE AND RESPONSIBLE EACH HAVE DEFINITIONS. RESPONSIVE MEANS THAT THE CONTRACTOR IS COMPLYING WITH THE BID TERMS THAT THEY ARE PROVIDING ALL THE BONDS THEY'RE SIGNING WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO SIGN, THEY'RE ANSWERING ALL THE QUESTIONS. AND THAT'S AN OBJECTIVE DETERMINATION THAT WE'RE ABLE TO TELL JUST BY LOOKING AT THE BID DOCUMENTS. WHAT'S HARDER TO DO IS RESPONSIBLE, SO RESPONSIBLE, THAT'S DEFINED IN PUBLIC CONTRACT CODE SECTION 1 1 0 3. AND IT ESSENTIALLY MEANS THAT THE CONTRACTOR HAS THE QUALIFICATIONS, THE EXPERIENCE, THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO PERFORM THE CONTRACT SUCCESSFULLY. UH, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO, UH, DISQUALIFY SOME CONTRACTORS FOR NOT BEING RESPONSIVE. HOWEVER, I DON'T BELIEVE, AT LEAST IN MY FIVE YEARS HERE IN THE CITY, WE'VE EVER DISQUALIFIED A CONTRACTOR FOR NOT BEING RESPONSIBLE. IT'S A VERY HARD THING TO DO. IT'S TIMELY. UH, IT REQUIRES A PUBLIC HEARING, IT'S ADVERSARIAL, IT USUALLY DELAYS PROJECTS. SO THAT IS THE PROBLEM, IS IT IS HARD TO DISQUALIFY A CONTRACTOR FOR NOT BEING RESPONSIBLE. UM, AND THEN HERE IS SOME OF THE CONTRACT OR PROBLEMS THAT OUR STAFF IS FACING WITH OUR CURRENT CONTRACTORS. UM, CHRONIC DELAYS, NOT PROVIDING THE CORRECT SAFETY, SAFETY VIOLATIONS, NOT COMPLYING WITH OSHA, JUST POOR WORKMANSHIP AND NOT COMPLYING WITH THE CONTRACT SECTIONS, THE DESIGNS. AND WHEN YOU HAVE A PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACT AND THEY'VE ALREADY MOBILIZED AND THEY'VE STARTED CONSTRUCTION, IT REALLY GETS HARD TO DISQUALIFY THEM OR TERMINATE THEIR CONTRACT. UH, IN MY FIVE YEARS, WE'VE ONLY DONE THAT ONCE, PRETTY EGREGIOUS. I'LL USE THE NAUTICAL TERM. THEY KIND OF HAVE US OVER THE BARREL A LITTLE BIT, AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO, ONCE THEY MOBILIZE TO FIND A NEW CONTRACTOR, TERMINATE, IT'S AN OPEN CONSTRUCTION SITE THAT'S DANGEROUS. IT'S GONNA BE MORE EXPENSIVE. WE DON'T KNOW IF THE NEW CONTRACTOR HAS THE CAPACITY TO, UH, COME IN IMMEDIATELY AND START WORK. THEY HAVE TO GET UP TO SPEED. SO, UH, IT'S REALLY RARE THAT WE'VE EVER TERMINATED A CONTRACT WHILE, UH, THERE HAS STARTED CONSTRUCTION. SO THOSE ARE KIND OF THE TWO PROBLEMS THAT WE'VE HAD. OUR PUBLIC WORKS TEAM HAS SAID, HEY, HOW CAN WE ADDRESS THESE PROBLEMS? UH, AND THERE'S A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH WITH, YOU KNOW, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THEIR ATTORNEY, WHEN THEY SHOULD JUST BE DOING THE WORK UP TO SCALE, UH, UP TO CODE. SO A COUPLE PICTURES. UH, THE LEFT IS AN EXAMPLE OF IMPROPER TRAFFIC SAFETY CONTROL. THE RIGHT IS GOOD, AND I DON'T WANT TO EMBARRASS ANY CONTRACTORS, SO I WON'T GIVE ANY SPECIFICS HERE. UM, AND WE GOT A LITTLE ANIMATION, SO THUMBS UP. THAT'S GOOD. THAT'S WHAT WE WANNA SEE. THE ONE ON THE LEFT, WE DO NOT, UH, ANOTHER EXAMPLE HERE, THE LEFT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WANNA SEE THAT'S UNSAFE TRENCHING ON THE RIGHT. THAT IS GOOD. SO THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE IS THE SAFETY VIOLATIONS, DELAYS, UH, THAT REALLY COST A LOT OF TIME BETWEEN THE CITY GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH A CONTRACTOR. SO THAT IS THE PROBLEM. AND HERE IS THE SOLUTION. THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE. IT ADDS A NEW CHAPTER TO OUR MUNICIPAL CODE FOR OH FIVE DISQUALIFICATION TO CONTRACTORS. AND IT APPLIES TO THE SUBCONTRACTORS, THE CONTRACTORS, AND ANY AFFILIATES. AFFILIATES IS A TERM THAT WE DEFINED IN OUR ORDINANCE, BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY ANY, YOU KNOW, CONTRACTOR THAT WAS DISQUALIFIED AND THEN TRIES TO FORM A NEW COMPANY, UH, TO TRY TO EVADE THAT, UH, DISQUALIFICATION. AND WHAT'S COOL ABOUT THIS PROPOSED ORDINANCE THAT I'VE ONLY SEEN ONE OTHER CITY DOES, UH, THEIR ORDINANCE DO, IS IT APPLIES TO ALL CITY CONTRACTS. SO A LOT OF CONTRACT, UH, ORDINANCES, IT JUST APPLIES TO PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS, BUT THIS WILL ALSO APPLY TO SERVICES AS WELL AS GOODS, MATERIALS, AND EQUIPMENT. UM, SO HERE ARE THE GROUNDS FOR DISQUALIFICATION. THERE'S 13 OF THEM. I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S 13 LISTED. WE KIND OF COMBINE THEM TO MAKE IT ALL FIT IN ONE SLIDE. UH, BUT THESE ARE SOME PRETTY EGREGIOUS ACTS. IT IS AN ORDINANCE AGAIN, THAT WE HOPE THAT WE NEVER HAVE TO USE, BUT IT'S A NICE STICK TO HAVE TO TRY TO GET THE, UH, THE CONTRACTORS TO COMPLY WITH THE CODE AND THE CONTRACT SCOPES. SO HERE ARE SOME OF THE EGREGIOUS ISSUES IF THEY ARE, UH, COMMIT FRAUD, BRIBER CRIMINAL, UH, MISCONDUCT, FAILURE [01:30:01] TO PERFORM PATTERN OF POOR WORK PERFORMANCE, REPEATED SAFETY, LABOR VIOLATIONS. AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS SORT OF A CATCHALL. UM, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE REVIEWED WITH, UH, OUR CIP TEAM. I KNOW JONATHAN SANDLOT, PAUL ELL, ANDY MOREHOUSE, STEVE WARAL, JOSH MITCHELL, UH, PAUL GAGAN, I BELIEVE THAT'S ALL OF THEM. THEY'VE REVIEWED, THEY'VE ALL ADDED THEIR INPUT. THESE, UH, GROUNDS FOR DISQUALIFICATION, WE BELIEVE WILL CATCH ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE HAVING WITH OUR CONTRACTORS. SO HOW THE CON UH, ORDINANCE WORKS IS WE HAVE ONE OF THE GROUNDS FOR DISQUALIFICATION, EITHER THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR OR ANOTHER HIGH UP STAFF OFFICIAL SENDS A LETTER TO THE CONTRACTOR. IT SAYS, HEY, THIS, UH, IT'S A NOTICE. YOU HAVE BEEN FOUND TO VIOLATE ONE OF THESE ORDINANCE SECTIONS. HERE'S THE SPECIFIC REASONING THAT YOU ARE IN VIOLATION. UM, SO IT PROVIDES THEM SORT OF NOTICE ABOUT WHAT THE NARRATIVE OF THE VIOLATION, IT EXPLAINS HOW TO APPEAL THAT, AS WELL AS THE LENGTH OF DISQUALIFICATION AND THE DISQUALIFICATION. IT'S UP TO FIVE YEARS. AND THE ORDINANCE PROVIDES A LIST OF FACTORS THAT WE CAN USE TO DETERMINE THOUGH WHAT THE LENGTH OF DISQUALIFICATION SHOULD BE. SO IF A CONTRACTOR FEELS THAT THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY. THEN WITHIN 15 DAYS OF RECEIVING THAT INITIAL NOTICE TO FILE AN APPEAL WITH, UH, OUR CITY MANAGER OR A DESIGNEE, THEY HAVE AN INFORMAL MEETING. THE CITY MANAGER'S ABLE TO MODIFY OR EVEN REVERSE THE DISQUALIFICATION. IF THE, AFTER THE INFORMAL MEETING, THE, UH, CONTRACTOR DIS SHE, UH, THEY ARE ABLE TO APPEAL. THAT APPEAL WILL BE HEARD BY A, UH, NEUTRAL HEARING OFFICER. IT WON'T BE STAFF. IT'S NICE AS PART OF DUE PROCESS TO HAVE AN IMPARTIAL, UH, HEARING OFFICER. WE LIST SOME QUALIFICATIONS, UH, AND THEN THAT HEARING OFFICER, UH, WILL MAKE A DETERMINATION. THEY WILL CONSIDER SOME MITIGATING FACTORS FOR THE LENGTH OF THE DISQUALIFICATION. UM, AND WHAT'S ALSO COOL IN OUR ORDINANCE THAT I'VE ONLY SEEN ONE OTHER CITY DO IS THE CONTRACTOR, IF THEY'RE DISQUALIFIED AND THAT'S UPHELD THROUGH THE INFORMAL HEARING AND THE FORMAL HEARING THROUGH THE HEARING OFFICER, THEY'RE ABLE TO SAY, LET'S GIVE AN EXAMPLE. THE DISQUALIFICATIONS THREE YEARS AFTER A YEAR OF BEING DISQUALIFIED, THEY'VE DONE ALL THESE MITIGATION FACTORS, THEY'VE HIRED NEW PEOPLE, THEY'VE DONE TRAININGS, THEY'RE ABLE TO APPEAL TO THE CITY MANAGER AND SAY, HEY, CITY MANAGER, LOOK AT ALL WHAT WE'VE DONE TO TRY TO CORRECT THAT. CAN WE KIND OF STAY OR SHORTEN THAT, UH, DISQUALIFICATION. SO THAT IS ANOTHER DUE PROCESS THING THAT NOT A LOT OF OTHER CITY ORDINANCES HAVE. SO THAT IS THE PROCESS. AND HERE'S KIND OF THE BENEFITS TO THE CITY. I THINK THE MAIN ONE IS THAT IT IN HOPES TO ENSURE THAT THE CONTRACTORS ARE DOING THE WORK CORRECTLY. AGAIN, IT IS A STICK THAT IF OUR CONTRACTORS AREN'T PERFORMING THE UP TO CODE WHILE DURING THE CONTRACTOR OR DURING THE CONTRACT, STAFF CAN SAY, HEY, IF YOU DON'T CORRECT WHATEVER THE VIOLATION IS, WE'RE GOING TO POTENTIALLY DISQUALIFY YOU. SO IT'S HOPEFULLY A LITTLE STICK RIGHT THERE TO GET THEM TO, UH, MINE THEIR PS AND QS. I KNOW OUR PUBLIC WORK STAFF HAVE ALREADY KIND OF USED THIS WITH SOME CONTRACTORS OUT THERE AND SAID, HEY, THIS ORDINANCE IS COMING, SO PLEASE BE ON YOUR BEST BEHAVIOR. IT SEEMS TO BE GOING PRETTY WELL. AND WE DO THINK THAT IT'LL EVENTUALLY SAVE MONEY FOR THIS CITY AS THERE WON'T BE SO MUCH STAFF TIME, UH, OVERSEEING AND MONITORING THE CONTRACTORS TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE DOING THE WORK CORRECTLY. WE BELIEVE IT WILL, EVEN THE PLAYING FIELD, UH, IT'LL MAKE THE PROJECTS HOPEFULLY SAFER AND EXPAND THE USEFUL LIFE OF THESE PROJECTS. UH, SAFER PROJECTS ALSO MEAN LESS LITIGATION AND DANGEROUS DEFECTS, AND THAT'S COSTLY. SO WE BELIEVE WE'VE STRUCK A GOOD BALANCE WITH OUR ORDINANCE AND DUE PROCESS AS WELL AS PROTECTING THE CITY. AND THAT IS MY PRESENT. OH, I SHOULD ALSO SAY TOO, THAT, UH, LOOKING AT THE ORDINANCE, WE, THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE THAT CURRENTLY IS POSTED ONLINE, IT HAS THE CORRECT NUMBERING. UH, ERIC AND I WERE GOING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT WHAT THE NUMBERING SHOULD BE, AND WE MADE A COUPLE MISTAKES OR LEFT SOME IN THERE. SO, UH, IT ALL NOW SAYS 4 0 5. AND HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. THANKS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BRING IT UP TO COUNCIL. ANY QUESTIONS? COUNCIL MEMBER? SHRIVES? UH, CAN YOU BRING UP THE PROCESS SLIDE? YEAH, HOLD ON. I'LL JUST LEAVE IT UP. OKAY. UH, THANK YOU. MM-HMM . MY SCREEN FLASHES ON AND OFF, SO I'LL SEE IT. I'LL STAY HERE IF I CAN. UM, NOW IN, IN, IN THE FORMAL PROCESS, THIS IS THE LEGAL FORMAL PROCESS. NOW I'M HOPING THAT THE, UM, CONSIDERATION OF MITIGATING FACTORS WHERE THERE IS REMEDIATION EFFORTS OR COOPERATION, [01:35:03] I ASSUME THAT THAT'S ALSO GOING TO BE PUT UP FORWARD. AND I ALSO ASSUME THAT THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT MORE INFORMAL MEETINGS BEFORE NOTICE AND EXPLANATION OF FORMAL LEGAL ACTION, THAT THERE'S INFORMAL THINGS HAPPENING AHEAD OF THIS. SO THAT, UM, BUT I ASSUME THIS IS JUST A LEGAL PROCESS, BUT I'M HOPING THAT YOU GUYS ARE ALSO GOING TO BE WORKING ON, UM, THE INFORMAL PROCESS, WHICH IS ACTUALLY PREEMPTS A LOT OF THIS INTO THE INFORMAL DISCUSSIONS AND REMEDIATIONS THAT CAN BE DONE. SO IS THERE A WAY THAT, DOES THAT HAVE TO BE PART OF THIS ORDINANCE, I THINK, OR IS THAT JUST DONE AS POLICY? YEAH, I THINK THAT'S BUILT IN, AND I THINK THAT IS THE GOAL, IS THAT THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF INFORMAL AND THAT THIS ORDINANCE NEVER GETS TO BE USED. UH, BUT IT IS AGAIN, A NICE STICK TO HAVE IN OUR BAG, UH, IN CASE THOSE KIND OF INFORMAL PROCESSES BREAK DOWN AND WE HAVE TO GO TO A DISQUALIFICATION. OKAY. AND, AND, AND IF I COULD ADD TO COUNCIL MEMBER STREIB. SO THE SEQUENCE THAT YOU SEE ON THE GRAPHIC IS REALLY THE PLAN SEQUENCE. IT STARTS WITH A NOTICE OF THIS PROPOSED ACTION DECISION BY THE CITY MANAGER OR EE. UM, IT INVITES THE, THE CONTRACTOR THAT RECEIVES THE NOTICE TO AN INFORMAL MEETING, JUST DISCUSSION. IT'S NOT A FORMAL PROCEEDINGS. THEY CAN BRING LEGAL COUNSEL IF THEY WANT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S TO ACTUALLY EXCHANGE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON. UM, THE REASON WHY THERE'S SOME FORMALITY TO THIS WITH A FORMAL HEARING BEFORE, UM, A NEUTRAL ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER, AND, AND THE DIS THE, THE, UM, CONSIDERATIONS, AND THERE'S MORE DETAIL OBVIOUSLY IN THE ORDINANCE ABOUT THE ACTUAL PROCEEDINGS, IS BECAUSE THERE'S LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS INVOLVED, THE, THE CONTRACTORS ARE OWED A DUE PROCESS, RIGHT? IN A FORMAL BIDDING PROCESS, UM, TO A PUBLIC AGENCY PROCUREMENT IN ACCORDANCE WITH EXISTING STATUTE AND CASE LAW. SO WE HAVE TO SATISFY THOSE REQUIREMENTS AND ENSURE THEIR FAIR TREATMENT. UM, BUT WE DO FULLY INTEND, AND THAT'S WHY THERE'S THAT INFORMAL MEETING THAT IS IN THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS BECAUSE THAT, THAT WOULD ALLOW THINGS LIKE, UM, CONTRACTORS TO SHARE MORE INFORMATION, CONTRACTORS TO MAYBE CHOOSE TO BOW OUT OF THE PROCUREMENT IF THEY HAVE PROBLEMS THAT THEY CAN'T REMEDY BEFORE WE GET TOO FAR IN THE PROCESS. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE REASON WHY THESE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS EXIST IN CONTRACTORS IS THIS GOES TO THEIR BUSINESS REPUTATION, RIGHT? MM-HMM . UM, WE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S A BIG DEAL. UM, BUT SO IS, UM, THE PUBLIC'S AND, AND THE STAFFS AND THE COUNCIL'S ABILITY TO RELY UPON THE QUALITY OF THE CONTRACT THAT'S PERFORMED, YOU KNOW, IN THE WORK FOR PUBLIC FACILITIES, THEIR USEFUL LIFE, UM, THEIR SAFETY, ET CETERA. RIGHT? BECAUSE USUALLY, UM, I THINK IN, IN, IN A NORMAL PROCESS, SOMETIMES THE CONSIDERATION OF MITIGATION FACTORS IS AHEAD OF THE FORMAL HEARING. SO I'M JUST WONDERING, THE FORMAL HEARING USUALLY IS DECISIONS GET MADE, RIGHT? AND THEN, AND THEN, THEN THEY'RE DISQUALIFIED, AND THEN THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH A FORMAL PROCESS TO GET BACK IN LINE. WHEREAS USUALLY THOSE TWO ARE FLIPPED, IS WHERE I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER, I CAN SAY THIS SLIDE'S A LITTLE MISLEADING. IT'S REALLY THOSE TOP THREE, THOSE ARE SORT OF THE PROCESS. YES. AND IN BETWEEN, YOU'RE CONSIDERING THE MITIGATION FACTORS FOR HOW LONG THE DISQUALIFICATION SHOULD BE, WHAT ARE THE MITIGATING FACTORS FOR THE LENGTH? YEAH. SO THOSE ARE KIND OF IN BETWEEN, UH, AS PART OF THE THREE TOP, UH, HEADINGS FOR THE FORMAL DUE PROCESS. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS CLEAR. 'CAUSE WHEN PEOPLE SEE THIS, THEY'RE GONNA GO, WAIT A MINUTE, YOU'RE MAKING A DECISION, THEN YOU'RE GONNA LET ME ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. SO I THINK THAT THESE COME FIRST, OR, YEAH, I, IN THINK IT'S CLEAR ON THE ORDINANCE AND THIS SLIDE IS A LITTLE MISLEADING. OKAY. YEAH. THANK YOU. I JUST WANNA CLARIFY THE PROCESS. THE FULL SCOPE OF THOSE CONSIDERATIONS CAN AND SHOULD BE PART OF THE INFORMAL MEETING. OKAY, GOOD. THANK YOU. AND RIGHT IN THE OUTSET. THANKS. OKAY. GOOD. COUNCIL MEMBER QUINN? SURE. SO, UM, SO I SUPPORT THE, THE ORDINANCE AND THE, THE WHOLE CONCEPT BEHIND IT. AND, AND, UH, I THINK IT CAN, UH, PROVIDE A USEFUL TOOL FOR THE CITY. THE ONE AREA THAT I START TO GET A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH, AND I, AND I THINK THAT THIS, I WOULD CHARACTERIZE THIS AS A KIND OF A SOFT CONCERN, IS THE POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE IN THE FUTURE. UM, IF THERE'S SOMEONE IN A POSITION THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO AFFECT A, A, UM, A CONTRACT, A AWARDING A CONTRACT TO ONE PERSON VERSUS ANOTHER BY FINDING A WAY TO EX, YOU KNOW, TO, UH, EXCLUDE, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, A, A BIDDER. SO I'M, YOU KNOW, AS I WAS JUST SORT OF THINKING ABOUT THAT, I WAS WONDERING IF THERE'S, UM, HOW PEOPLE, HOW THE COUNCIL MIGHT FEEL ABOUT MAYBE PUTTING A, UM, A TIME LIMIT ON THE ORDINANCE THAT THE, THAT, THAT IT'S LIKE IN EFFECT FOR A CERTAIN NUMBER OF YEARS AND NEEDS TO COME BACK FOR RE-APPROVAL AT SOME POINT. LIKE, [01:40:01] I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S A GOOD IDEA OR NOT, JUST THROWING IT OUT. UM, SO GOOD STARTING POINT FOR CONVERSATION. UM, I'M GONNA LET THE REST OF THE QUESTIONS ROLL OUT AND MAYBE WE'LL COME RIGHT BACK AROUND TO THAT COUNCIL MEMBER. BARNICLE. UM, THANK YOU. UM, I AGREE THIS SLIDE IS SOMEWHAT MISLEADING. I DEFINITELY, UM, SO I APPRECIATE YOU CLARIFYING THAT. CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE ONE ON THE REASONS, UH, YEAH, THAT'S THE ONE. YEP. SO TALK TO ME ABOUT DISQUALIFICATION BY ANOTHER PUBLIC AGENCY. SO DISQUALIFICATION CAN HAPPEN FOR LOTS OF REASONS. ONE BEING IT'S NOT A RESPONSIVE BID, RIGHT? SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT IF A SOMEONE HAD SUBMITTED NOT A RESPONSIVE BID, THAT WE COULD DISQUALIFY THEM? NO. UNDERSTAND THIS WOULD BE, YEAH, GOOD QUESTION. IT WOULD BE DISQUALIFICATION BASED ON ONE OF THE 13 JUSTIFICATIONS, AND THAT'S SPELLED OUT IN OUR ORDINANCE. UM, I THINK I, JUST FOR BREVITY AND TO TRY TO KEEP IT ON ONE SLIDE, IT'S NOT AS CLEAR, BUT YEAH, IT NEEDS TO BE GROUNDS THAT ARE SIMILAR FOR OUR, IN OUR ORDINANCE TO DISQUALIFY, UM, THAT WE CAN THEN IMPUTE ON THE CONTRACTOR HERE. AND, AND I SHOULD ADD TOO, THANK YOU, DYLAN. UM, COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE, THERE'S A PRETTY BIG DISTINCTION IN THE LAW BETWEEN RESPONSIVENESS PROBLEMS, WHICH IS REALLY FAILURE TO FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SUBMISSION. IT COULD BE SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS NOT LISTING A LICENSE, NOT LISTING A SUBCONTRACTOR FAILING TO SIGN, FAILING TO INCLUDE A BID BOND OR SOMETHING. UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE HONEST MISTAKES. RESPONSIBILITY REALLY GOES TO THE, UM, QUALIFICATIONS OF THE CONTRACTOR TO PERFORM THE WORK. DO THEY ACTUALLY HAVE THE LICENSE THEY NEED TO, UM, HAVE THEY COMMITTED, YOU KNOW, IF THEY DEBARRED FOR PREVAILING WAGE VIOLATIONS, ET CETERA. SO IN THE LAW AND IN OUR, UM, DRAFT ORDINANCE FOR THE COUNCIL, THE DISTINCTION IS RECOGNIZED BETWEEN RESPONSIVENESS, WHICH THIS ISN'T ABOUT, AND RESPONSIBILITY, WHICH IT IS. SO HELP ME THEN UNDERSTAND HOW WE WOULD GO ABOUT SEEKING THIS INFORMATION FROM OTHER PUBLIC AGENCIES. WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M ENVISIONING HERE IS, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST GOING TO START, I'LL, WE'LL TAKE INFORMATION THAT I KNOW OF THAT IS PROBABLY PART OF A PUBLIC RECORD FROM ONE AGENCY AND SUBMIT IT WITH MY BID TO THE PUBLIC AGENCY AS A WAY OF LIKE, UNDERMINING MY COMPETITORS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHICH MAYBE IS A GOOD THING THAT WE WANT THAT INFORMATION IF THEY'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, ASKED ABOUT A DIFFERENT PUBLIC AGENCY. I'M JUST WONDERING HOW WE HAPPEN UPON THIS INFORMATION THAT THAT COULD HAPPEN. UM, UH, WE DO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, I I CAN REMEMBER A FEW TIMES WHERE WE'VE RECEIVED, UM, INFORMATION FROM A POTENTIAL COMPETING, UH, BIDDER ABOUT ISSUES THAT AN, UH, A COMPETITOR WAS HAVING THAT MIGHT ADDRESS RESPONSIBILITY. UM, THE MOST LIKELY WAY WE WOULD GET IT IS WHEN, UM, OUR STAFF ARE CHECKING REFERENCES, UM, WITH OTHER AGENCIES. BECAUSE TYPICALLY A PART OF OUR SUBMISSION PACKAGE IS TO LIST, UM, OTHER, OTHER AGENCIES AND OWNERS FOR WHOM THEY'VE PERFORMED SIMILAR WORK IN CALIFORNIA WITHIN A RECENT PERIOD, SIMILAR SIZED PROJECT. SO I THINK THAT'S TYPICALLY WHERE WE MIGHT, UM, YOU KNOW, IN CHECKING REFERENCE, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOU KNOW, A PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR IN ANOTHER CITY SAID, WELL, ACTUALLY THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE DEBARRED RIGHT NOW, OR WHATEVER, THEN THAT, THAT'S HOW WE GET THAT INFORMATION TYPICALLY. AND I'LL JUST ADD TOO, THAT IT'S IN OUR ORDINANCE AS WELL AS A LOT OF THE OTHER ORDINANCES I'VE SEEN IS OUR CITY CLERK IS SUPPOSED TO KEEP A LIST OF THE DISBARRED CONTRACTORS. SO THAT LIST WILL BE IN SAN FRANCISCO, OAKLAND, SAN JOSE, FOR THE CONTRACTORS THAT HAVE SIMILAR ORDINANCES WHERE THEY'VE USED AGAINST AND DISQUALIFIED CONTRACTORS. GOT YOU. THAT MM-HMM . THAT HELPS ME FOR SURE, BECAUSE NOBODY'S GONNA LIST A REFERENCE THAT WILL , YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE IN BUSINESS FOR VERY LONG. YOU'D BE SURPRISED. YEAH. I GUESS, UM, WHAT WE SEE ACTUALLY IS SOMETIMES A FAILURE TO LIST REFERENCES OR TO, TO BE SELECTIVE IN THE LISTING. I WOULD, I WOULD PUT THAT UNDER RESPONSIVE THEN, BUT, UM, OKAY. AND THEN, UM, THE PERIOD THEN IS GONNA BE DETERMINED BY THE HEARING OFFICER, RIGHT? UH, ORIGINALLY IT WILL BE THE HIGH LEVEL STAFF MEMBER THAT'S OVERSEEING THE CONTRACT, THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR, FINANCE DIRECTOR, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, CITY MANAGER, UH, AND THEN THAT CAN BE APPEALED TO THE CITY MANAGER OR THEIR DESIGNEE. AND THEN FINALLY THE HEARING OFFICER, SO THE HEARING OFFICER GETS THE FINAL SAY. OKAY. AND THEN THE HEARING OFFICER, IS IT SOMEONE THAT WE ARE APPOINTED OR IS IT HOW, HOW DO WE SOURCE OUR HEARING OFFICERS? YEAH, WE CURRENTLY HAVE AN RFP PROCESS, AND I BELIEVE FOUR OR FIVE UNDER CONTRACT. UH, THEY'RE ALL FORMER ATTORNEYS, A FEW CITY ATTORNEYS. I KNOW WE HAVE THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY IN SANTA ROSA. PREVIOUS, UH, FORMER CITY ATTORNEY IN ELK GROVE HAS HELPED US WITH HEARINGS. UH, THE QUALIFICATIONS THEY NEED TO HAVE, BE [01:45:01] EITHER AN ATTORNEY OR HAVING EXPERIENCED IN PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS OR DONE PREVIOUS ARBITRATION. SO THEY'RE GONNA BE NEUTRAL. AND THAT'S, AND I THINK SO FAR, NO, UH, ISSUES WITH OUR HEARING OFFICERS, RIGHT? WE DYLAN'S RIGHT? WE, SO WE HAVE WROTE BASICALLY A ROTATING LIST THAT WE PERIODICALLY UPDATE, UM, THROUGH, THROUGH SOLICITATION OF ELIGIBLE ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICERS. AND WE USE THEM FOR A VARIETY OF, YOU KNOW, ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEEDINGS UNDER OUR MINI CODE. SO, UM, FINAL QUESTION. IS THERE A REASON WHY WE WOULDN'T WANT TO TAKE THE, THE SORT OF PENALTY SETTING, THE PENALTY, UM, OUT OF OUR STAFF'S HANDS ALTOGETHER AND NOT HAVE THAT, THAT SEEMS TO ME LIKE ONE OF THE BIGGEST OPPORTUNITIES FOR, YOU KNOW, LIKE FOUL PLAY IS LIKE, I NEED TO GET THIS, NEED TO REDUCE THIS PENALTY, OR I NEED TO AVOID THIS PENALTY. AND THE PERSON IS SOMEONE ON STAFF HERE, NOT A LEGAL EXPERT, NOT, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE THAT'S THAT. AND, UM, THAT JUST FEELS LIKE IT'S THE ONE OPPORTUNITY WHERE, UM, WE'RE PUTTING OUR STAFF IN A POSITION TO BE THE, THE, THE JURY, IF YOU WILL, THE JUDGE AND THE JURY OF WHATEVER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT WORDING IS, BUT, WELL, YOU GET WHAT I'M SAYING, BUT IT'S, IT'S, UM, IT'S ALL SUBJECT TO REVIEW BY THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER. SO, UM, THE, THE WAY, YEAH. E HOLD ON ERIC, BUT THE, THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER, IF, IF SOMETHING IS WIPED AWAY, THE TERM IS REDUCED, LET'S SAY WERE MINIMIZED, UM, NOBODY'S GOING TO APPEAL THAT TO THE HEARING OFFICER. THEY'RE GONNA APPEAL SOMETHING TO THE HEARING OFFICER IF THEY THINK THAT IT'S TOO PUNITIVE, RIGHT? SO WE'RE NOT IN A SITUATION WHERE LIKE SOMEONE'S GONNA ESCALATE IT TO THE HEARING OFFICER BECAUSE IT, THEIR PENALTY GOT REDUCED OR THEIR TERM GOT REDUCED. RIGHT. AND SO I'M JUST, SO, WELL, MAYBE I'M MISUNDERSTANDING YOUR QUESTION. ARE YOU FOCUSED ON THE MECHANISM THAT WE HAVE WHEREBY SOMEONE WHO GETS DEBARRED FOR A SPECIFIED PERIOD, SAY IT'S TWO YEARS, UM, CAN AFTER A YEAR ELAPSES SUBMIT DOCUMENTATION TO PEGGY AND SEEK TO BE REINSTATED? YOU'RE, YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT THAT KIND OF PRESSURE? NO, I THINK IT'S THE ORIGINAL CON, UH, STAT CITY STAFF SAYING THIS CONTRACTOR, YOU VIOLATED WHATEVER GROUNDS YOU'RE DISQUALIFIED FOR 2, 3, 4, 5 YEARS OR WHATEVER. YEAH. ANY OF THOSE, ANY, ANY, ANY DECISION WHERE A STAFF PERSON IS IN A POSITION TO, UM, 'CAUSE THE HEARING OFF. THE THING IS, IS THE HEARING OFFICER, I DON'T FEEL LIKE, UM, THE APPLICANT OR THE, THE PARTY KNOWS WHO THAT HEARING OFFICER IS, RIGHT? WE HAVE A BOOK OF HEARING OFFICERS, RIGHT? IT'S GONNA BE SOMEWHAT RANDOM. UM, BUT I KNOW EXACTLY WHO THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS IS. I KNOW EXACTLY WHO THE CITY MANAGER IS, RIGHT? AND SO YOU CREATE A LOT MORE CLARITY OVER WHERE THE POWER MAP IS AND WHO I NEED TO LEVERAGE. UM, AND I JUST NOT SAYING THAT WOULD EVER HAPPEN, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, DEFINITELY NOT WITH THE STAFF WE HAVE TODAY, BUT WE'RE WRITING THIS FOR, FOR FUTURE. WE ARE, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY THOSE SAFEGUARDS ARE BUILT IN BECAUSE, UM, THE, THERE HAS TO BE A FACTUAL RECORD THAT SUPPORTS THE INITIAL ADMINISTRATIVE DETERMINATION TO PUT SOMEONE ON NOTICE. UM, AND ALSO THAT IS A BASIS FOR THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER'S ULTIMATE DECISION AND THE KIND OF INFLUENCE THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING, UM, WOULD, WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF OUR OATH OF OFFICE WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, A A CAREER, KIND OF A CAREER ENDING KIND OF CORRUPTION THAT, UM, WE WOULD CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, UM, BE SUBJECT TO, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FULL RANGE OF PENALTIES FOR THAT. REMEMBER TOO THAT OUR OFFICE IS GONNA BE ASSISTING IN THIS PROCESS. UM, AND SO OUR DUTIES AS THE CITY'S ATTORNEYS ARE GONNA BE IMPLICATED, UM, IN TERMS OF, UM, FOLLOWING THE LAW IN TERMS OF AN HONEST PRESENTATION OF THE FACTS. AND, UM, AND, AND AGAIN, IN TERMS OF OUR, OUR DUTIES OF COMPETENCY AND LOYALTY AND OUR OWN ETHICAL OBLIGATIONS AS ATTORNEYS. SO, UM, I I, I DO THINK, AND, AND AS WE'VE MENTIONED ALREADY TONIGHT, UM, THERE, THERE IS PRETTY WELL ESTABLISHED DUE PROCESS CASE LAW THAT APPLIES TO THE, UM, RIGHTS OF CONTRACTORS IN FORMAL BIDDING OF PUBLIC AGENCIES. UM, THAT, THAT THIS SCHEME ADHERES TO THAT THE JURISDICTIONS THAT HAVE THESE REGULATIONS, UM, ALSO, UM, CLEARLY BASE THEM ON. UM, AND THAT WE, THAT AND THAT WE BORROWED FROM, IN ENACTING THIS. SO, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT TOTALLY NOT TRYING [01:50:01] TO DEBATE WITH THE COUNCIL, UM, TRYING TO THOUGH PROVIDE SPECIFIC INFORMATION AS TO, TO, UM, HOW THESE SAFEGUARDS ARE INTENDED TO WORK. AND I THINK IN PRACTICE WOULD WORK. OKAY. THANKS. COUNCIL. MEMBER DE CARLY. UM, SO TO KIND OF CONTINUE WITH WHAT COUNCILMAN BARNACLE WAS SAYING, UM, IS IT A CONFLICT FOR THE CITY TO BE CHOOSING THE PUBLIC HEARING OFFICER? BECAUSE THEN YOU COULD HAVE A SITUATION WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE CITY KNOWS WE'RE LIKELY TO GET THIS FAVORABLE OUTCOME, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA CHOOSE. YEAH, NO, THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD CASE LAW OUT THERE WHERE THE CITY'S ABLE TO PICK THEIR HEARING OFFICERS. UH, THEY'RE NEUTRAL, YOU KNOW, IT'S THEIR ETHICS TOO. IT'S THEIR JOB TO BE IMPARTIAL. SO, UH, IT DOESN'T GO TO WHERE, WELL, UH, IF THEY SAY, HEY, UH, THERE'S A LINE OF CASE, I THINK IT'S CALLED NIGHTLIFE, WHERE YOU HAD A HEARING OFFICER, HE WAS THE ONLY HEARING OFFICER FOR THE CITY. I FORGET THE CITY, FAIRFIELD MAYBE, BUT, AND, UH, THE FAIR, THEY ARGUED TO THE JUDGE, HEY, THIS HEARING OFFICER, THEY'RE JUST GONNA RUBBER STAMP WHATEVER THE CITY'S DOING BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THEY CAN KEEP GETTING CONTRACTS THAT THEY WITHHOLD. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE COGNIZANT OF, AND OUR HEARING OFFICERS ARE VERY IMPARTIAL. THEY DON'T TALK TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AT ALL BESIDES SORT OF SETTING UP THESE HEARINGS. UM, SO, SO FAR SO GOOD. AND I, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S REAL CONCERN WHILE ERIC'S IN OUR OFFICE. YEAH, RIGHT. UM, DYLAN'S RIGHT ABOUT THE NIGHTLIFE LINE OF CASES, AND WHAT THEY PROVIDE IS THAT WE CAN'T SET UP A SYSTEM IN WHICH, UM, HEARING OFFICERS HOPE OF CONTINUED, UM, UM, PRETENSION BY THE, BY THE JURISDICTION, UM, TAINTS THEIR DECISION MAKING. AND THAT'S WHY THEY JUST GET ADDED TO A, TO A PANEL FROM WHOM WE SELECT OFFICERS. THEY DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE EVER GONNA GET ANY WORK FROM US. THERE'S NO GUARANTEE OF SUBSEQUENT WORK FROM US. UM, AND THEY STAY IN THE PANEL DURING THE TIME OF THEIR, OF THAT, UM, SELECTION. THANKS. OKAY. NO, THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION. UM, AND THEN I, I WONDER TOO, SINCE WE'RE HAVING A FULL ON DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS AND, AND THE LEGAL TEAM'S WRITTEN THIS ALL UP, I MEAN, HOW FREQUENT OF A PROBLEM IS THIS THAT, THAT THE CITY WANTS TO DISQUALIFY CONTRACTORS THAT IT'S COME TO? YEAH, I TONIGHT I, AGAIN, AND MAYBE THIS IS A QUESTION FOR PAUL, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA BE USING THIS FREQUENTLY. I THINK IT'S NICE AS A DETERRENT TO TELL THE CONTRACTORS, HEY, GET YOUR WORK DONE, OR THIS IS A POTENTIAL. UH, LIKE I SAID, ERIC AND I DON'T KNOW THE 10 YEARS THAT, OR LONGER THAT YOU'VE BEEN HERE WITH THE CITY, HAVE WE WE EVER DISQUALIFIED FOR RESPONSIVENESS, UH, OR RESPONSIVENESS FOR RESPONSIBILITY? YEAH. UM, NOT FORMALLY, BUT WE'VE DEALT WITH ISSUES AND, AND IN THE RECENT PAST, AND THEY'RE VERY TIME CONSUMING AND THEY'RE COSTLY. UM, UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THOSE EXAMPLES, THOSE ARE REAL EXAMPLES. UM, AND IT, IT IS, UM, AND, UH, UH, WE SHOULD HEAR FROM PAUL BECAUSE IT'S IT'S STAFF WHO CAME TO US WANTING THIS TOOL. WE, WE DIDN'T REACH OUT TO THEM. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALWAYS HAPPY TO SUPPORT THE TEAM TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE REGULATORY AND LEGISLATIVE TOOLS THEY NEED. SO I'LL LET, I'LL LET PAUL PICK IT UP, BUT, YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HAD THESE HEARINGS DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVEN'T DEALT WITH THESE ISSUES ABOUT CONTRACTOR RESPONSIBILITY AND POTENTIAL PROBLEMS. RIGHT, RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHY I WONDER HOW PREVALENT A PROBLEM IS THIS. YEAH, THANKS FOR THE QUESTION. PAUL KOEL, PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR. UH, I'M, UH, I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH ERIC AND DYLAN ON THIS. UM, IT, IT'S, UH, I WOULD SAY THE MAJORITY OF OUR CONTRACTORS, UM, ARE, IT'S NOT, THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE, RIGHT? THEY, THEY PERFORM TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CONTRACT. UM, BUT WE DO HAVE, UH, A SMALL NUMBER OF CONTRACTORS WHERE, UM, IT'S NOT ONE PROJECT. IT'S SORT OF A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR. UM, AND, UM, THAT'S WHAT REALLY WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE FOR, IS TO HOLD THOSE CONTRACTORS ACCOUNTABLE, HAVE THAT TOOL, RIGHT, UM, HAVE THAT DETERRENT, UM, SO THAT WE CAN SAY IF WE, YOU DON'T, UM, UH, CORRECT, UM, AND REMEDY, UM, THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE PRESENTED OR CALLED OUT FOR YOU, THEN THIS IS A ROAD THAT WE COULD GO DOWN. UM, SO IT, IT'S NOT PREVALENT IN THE SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF A CONTRACTORS THAT WE AWARD CONTRACTS TO THESE ISSUES WOULD'VE COME UP TO THE, UM, I GUESS THE SEVERITY THAT WE WOULD GO DOWN THIS ROAD. UM, BUT IT IS FOR THE SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THOSE REPEAT OFFENDERS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DETER. OKAY. AND THEN, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS I NOTICED, YOU KNOW, IN THE PRESENTATION IS THERE'S A LOT OF CONTRAST BETWEEN THE 13 THINGS VERSUS SOME OF THE EXAMPLES. YOU KNOW, I MEAN, SOME OF THE STUFF'S, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY YOU WOULDN'T WANT PEOPLE DOING STUFF, THERE'S FRAUD, ET CETERA. [01:55:01] UM, BUT THEN THE, THE EXAMPLES OF, WELL, THERE'S A SIGN THAT FELL OVER, YOU KNOW, ON A ROAD OR THIS, UH, THIS, UH, TRENCH WASN'T BRACED, RIGHT. OR, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT OPENS UP EVERYBODY INVOLVED LIABILITY, BUT TO THE, TO THEN, YOU KNOW, USE THAT AS AN EXAMPLE TO SAY LIKE, THIS IS WHY WE COULD MAYBE DISQUALIFY SOMEBODY UP TO FIVE YEARS. LIKE, THAT SEEMS KIND OF EXTREME. YEAH. AND I, I THINK, AGAIN, THIS SLIDE WAS JUST SORT OF FOR BREVITY TO MAKE SURE THAT FITS IN ONE, UH, SLIDE. IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE DEFINITIONS, IT NEEDS TO BE PRETTY SEVERE AND EGREGIOUS, AND I DON'T THINK WE'LL BE, YOU KNOW, DISQUALIFYING OVER SOMEBODY THAT'S NOT PROVIDING THE CORRECT SAFETY SIGN. I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A REPEATED PATTERN OR SOMETHING PRETTY, PRETTY EGREGIOUS. RIGHT? AND, AND IF STAFF, IF, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TOO BUSY AND WE HAVE TOO BIG A PUBLIC WORKS PROJECT WORKLOAD TO MAKE PROBLEMS FOR CONTRACTORS ON WHOM WE RELY TO DELIVER PROJECTS, UM, TO, TO, TO WANNA ABUSE A TOOL LIKE THIS, UM, IF THERE WERE STAFF IN THE FUTURE THAT WOULD BECOME CLEAR TO ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER, UM, AND IT MIGHT EVEN, YOU KNOW, RESULT IN LITIGATION AS A RESULT OF THE, OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING. UM, BECAUSE AS WE SAID, THERE'S, THERE'S LAWS THAT, UH, AND CASE LAW THAT EXIST TO PROTECT, UM, UH, CONTRACTORS AND THEIR INTEREST IN THEIR BUSINESS REPUTATION FOR PERFORMING THE WORK. SO NO ONE'S GONNA, UM, TOLERATE, NOR SHOULD THEY, UM, PRETEXTUAL, UM, ATTEMPTS BY THE CITY TO DISQUALIFY THEM FROM CITY PROJECTS. MM-HMM . OKAY. YEAH, AND I'LL JUST SAY ADD TOO. I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHY WE HAVE THE THREE LEVELS OF TIERS TO GO TO THE CITY MANAGER WHERE THEY CAN SAY, HEY, CITY STAFF, YOU'RE A LITTLE HEAVY HANDED HERE. WHY DID YOU DISQUALIFY? I AM GONNA REVERSE. AND THEN THE HEARING OFFICER CAN SAY THE SAME THING IF THEY DISAGREE. MM-HMM . OKAY. UM, AND THEN ONE LAST QUESTION. YEAH. UM, SO CAN THE CITY DISQUALIFY A SUBCONTRACTOR INDEPENDENTLY WITHOUT GETTING RID OF THE, THE PRIMARY CONTRACTOR? CORRECT. WE CAN ULTIMATELY THE SUBCONTRACTOR'S RESPONSIBLE OR THE CONTRACTOR'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR SUBCONTRACTOR, BUT IF IT'S REALLY THE SUBCONTRACTOR THAT'S CAUSING THE PROBLEMS, WE CAN BYPASS THE CONTRACTOR AND JUST GO AFTER THE SUB. OKAY. JUST TO BE FAIR. YEAH. OKAY. BECAUSE YEAH, IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A LIST THAT'S GOING OUT EVERYWHERE. YEAH. AND I DON'T KNOW IF I'VE E SEEN A CITY'S ORDINANCE THAT HAS US OR THE ABILITY TO GO RIGHT AFTER THE SUBCONTRACTOR. WELL, THERE ARE, UM, THERE'S A PROCESS IN THE PUBLIC CONTRACT CODE FOR, UH, SUBCONTRACTOR SUBSTITUTION. UM, YES, BECAUSE, UM, THERE'S A SERIES OF STATUTES IN THE CODE THAT ARE DESIGNED TO PRE PREVENT WHAT'S CALLED BID SHOPPING. AND THAT'S WHEN, UM, GENERAL CON CONTRACTORS TRY TO PRESSURE SUBCONTRACTORS TO LOW BALL THEIR BIDS, UM, AT THE LAST MINUTE AND USE ONE BID TO GET OTHER, OTHER LOWER BIDS. UM, AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE RESTRICTED FROM, UM, THEY, THEY HAVE TO LIST SUBCONTRACTORS DOING MORE THAN, UH, 1% OF THE PROJECT, ET CETERA. BUT, BUT SOMETIMES THE LAW, THE LAW ALSO RECOGNIZES THAT SOMETIMES SUBCONTRACTORS, UM, ARE CAUSING SIGNIFICANT PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS AND DO NEED TO BE SUBSTITUTED NOTWITHSTANDING THOSE PROTECTIONS. SO, SO THOSE MECHANISMS EXIST. I'VE, UM, I HAVE DEALT WITH THERE ARE, THERE ARE HEARINGS THAT'S A HEARING PROCESS IN THE PUBLIC CONTRACT CODE FOR THAT. UM, AND WHEN I WAS IN PRIVATE PRACTICE, UM, EVEN BEFORE AS PET CITY ATTORNEY DEALT WITH SOME OF THOSE MATTERS, UM, SO THERE'S A PRETTY GOOD BALANCE IN THE LAW ALREADY WITH RESPECT TO THAT. AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT SOMETIMES IT'S THE, IT'S AT THE SUBCONTRACTOR LEVEL THAT THESE PROBLEMS EXIST, AND THAT'S A WAY TO DEAL WITH IT AT THAT LEVEL. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, AND, AND, AND, AND FOCUS, FOCUS ON THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM, WHICH IN THAT CASE WOULD NOT BE THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR. OKAY. THANKS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. I MEAN, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SIT ON MY HANDS HERE FOR, UM, I'M 30 YEARS OF LETTING PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS. LIKE YOU GOT A LITTLE EXPERIENCE IN THIS. UM, AND, UM, AND I AGREE WITH YOU, THE MAIN, UM, VALUE OF THE ORDINANCE IS AS A THREAT. I MEAN, THE TOOLS PUBLIC WORKS HAVE ALREADY IS PRETTY GOOD, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS THAT ONE PLAYER AND YOU WANT TO HAVE ONE MORE TOOL. UM, AND, AND I THINK, UM, I, I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT TRACKS AND IT'S GETTING CONFUSED FOR, FOR EVERYONE. ONE TRACK IS YOU HAVE SOMEBODY UNDER CONTRACT WHO'S SO BAD YOU WISH TO DISQUALIFY THEM, AND ANOTHER ONE IS THERE'S A BID DAY, YOU OPEN IT UP, YOU SAY, OH, THAT'S SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN DISQUALIFIED SOMEWHERE ELSE. SO THERE'S TWO WAY SEPARATE TRACKS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. AND SO FOR SOMEONE WHO'S UNDER CONTRACT, UH, THE INSPECTION TEAM, THE CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT TEAM, UH, MANY, [02:00:01] MANY TOOLS, AND THAT RISES UP THROUGH A CITY CHANGE BEFORE THIS WOULD EVER COME IN AND YOU'D THREATEN TO DISQUALIFY THIS PERSON, THE DOCUMENTATION ON IT WOULD BE, WOULD BE HUGE. BUT IT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT NO CONTRACTOR WILL ALLOW. YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IF CONTRACTORS FOREMAN IS THE PROBLEM, CONTRACTORS WILL TELL YOU THEY FIRED HIM, BUT REALLY THEY SENT HIM TO FAIRFIELD. YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO, TO BRING YOU. NOBODY WANTS THIS BLACK MARK ON THEIR RECORD. SO I DON'T THINK THIS ORDINANCE WILL EVER BE USED. I'M NOT SURE IT HAS VALUE IN THAT SENSE. YOU KNOW, IT'S THE UMBRELLA. YOU NEVER NEED THE, UM, UH, UM, IF YOU CALL FOR REFERENCES, ANY PUBLIC AGENCY WILL TELL YOU, YES, THEY WORKED FOR ME, DID A CONTRACT, AND, AND YES, THIS WAS THE DATE. AND YOU ASK, DID THEY COMPLETE SUCCESSFULLY? WELL, NO CONTRACTOR WILL ALLOW A CONTRACTOR TO END UNSUCCESSFULLY. THEY, THAT'S, THAT'S A LAWSUIT THAT'S HAPPENING. SO WHAT HAPPENS FOR THOSE CONTRACTORS IS, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, MAYBE THEY'LL CLAIM, UM, UM, MAYBE THEY'LL CLAIM, UM, THAT, UH, THEY NEEDED EXTRA WORK DAYS BECAUSE OF YOU AND YOU'RE CLAIMING THAT THEY DIDN'T FINISH THE CONTRACT. AND THE DEBATE IS ABOUT SCHEDULE, OR MAYBE IT'S COST. IT ALL GETS NEGOTIATED. UH, EVERY AGENCY, EVERY CITY WOULD RATHER NEGOTIATE AND PAY BEYOND WHAT THEY THINK THE EARNINGS ARE TO AVOID THE LITIGATION COST. AND SO THEY ALL END SUCCESSFULLY, THE WORST CONTRACTOR IN THE WORLD, IF YOU NEGOTIATE AND CLOSE, SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED A CONTRACT AND WOULD NOT BE DISQUALIFIED UNDER THIS DISCUSSION. SO IF TO GET DISQUALIFIED, LIKE THIS IS PRETTY EAGER. I MEAN, YOU REALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD TO GO THE EXTRA EFFORT TO GET THROWN OUT. UM, SO THAT MAKES ME ASK, DID YOU FIND ANY AGENCY THAT HAS A LIST OF CONTRACTORS WHO ARE DISQUALIFIED? I DIDN'T CHECK. I KNOW SAN FRANCISCO, THEY RECENTLY DISQUALIFIED A CONTRACTOR FOR SOME PRETTY SERIOUS KICKBACK ISSUES. UM, THAT WAS IN THE NEWS A COUPLE YEARS AGO. I WOULD IMAGINE THEY'RE OUT THERE, BUT, UM, THEIR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT HAD PROBLEMS TOO. CORRECT. RIGHT. YEAH. SO I, I I AGREE WITH YOU THERE. THE SENTIMENT IS THAT THIS WOULD BE PRETTY RARE, AND IT'S HOPEFULLY UMBRELLA WE DON'T HAVE TO USE, BUT IT'S A NICE STICK TO HAVE. BEYOND THAT, THERE'S A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF KICKBACKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, RIGHT. AND, UM, BUT IN TERMS OF THE JOB REFERENCES THAT WE SEE, NO REFERENCE WILL TELL YOU THAT, THAT THERE IS A BAD PERFORMANCE ONLY DISQUALIFIED. AND VERY RARELY WE'VE TERMINATED PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS FOR CAUSE AND, AND GOTTEN SUCCESSFULLY GOTTEN SUBSTITUTE PERFORMANCE THROUGH SURETIES. SO RIGHT. THAT IS NOT A SUCCESSFUL, THAT'S DURING A CONTRACT, RIGHT? YOU LET SOMEONE OFF AND PULL THEIR PERFORMANCE BOND, RIGHT? WELL, LETTING THEM OFF, TERMINATING THEM FOR, I MEAN, TERMINATING THEM FOR THAT, THAT KIND OF, BUT YOU HAVE TO WIN THAT IN COURT. THAT'S A PRETTY EGS IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE, WELL, IT'S, WE DIDN'T HAVE LITIGATION AND WE SETTLED THAT AND GOT THE SUBSTITUTE PERFORMANCE. AND SO THAT IS THE KIND OF THING THAT IN THE FUTURE COULD PREVENT THAT CONTRACTOR FROM BIDDING. WOULD YOU REVEAL THAT TO ANOTHER AGENCY? IT'S FACTUAL. SURE. UM, SO I THINK THE REFERENCE CALL WOULD COME TO PAUL AND WELL, HE KNOWS THE SAME STUFF, BUT, BUT SO WOULD YOU HAVE CON WOULD OUR STAFF HAVE CONFIDENCE IN SHARING THIS INFORMATION AS PART OF WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT? YEAH, THEY, THEY, IF I KNOW OUR TEAM, THEY WOULD CHECK WITH US AND SAY ON A RE REFERENCE CALL, AND WE'D, YEAH. AND, AND, AND, AND THE, THE THING I WANNA MENTION TOO IS, UM, ABOUT THE TEAM. YOU KNOW, I I, I WASN'T BEING TELLING YOUR CHEEK AT ALL. WHAT'S, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR CURRENT PIPELINE OF, OF DOLLARS FOR PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS THAT ARE, THAT ARE PROGRAMMED RIGHT NOW IS, BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH THE PUBLIC SAFETY FACILITY, THAT THAT ALONE IS NORTH OF $40 MILLION. SO IT'S AN INCREDIBLE QUANTITY OF WORK. UM, AND I'M REALLY PROUD OF THE JOB THEY DO, AND THEY DO IT WITH OUR, UM, OUR SUPPORT, WHICH WE'RE GLAD TO PROVIDE OF WORKING OUT PROBLEMS IN THE FIELD. WE, WE'VE, WE'VE, YOU KNOW, FOR THE ELLIS CREEK PROJECTS, WE'VE HAD SOME VERY PRODUCTIVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT GETTING THOSE THREE CONTRACTS TO RESOLVE. AND STAFF HAS GONNA DONE A GREAT JOB BEING PRAGMATIC AND FOCUSING ON WHAT WE ALWAYS TRY TO FOCUS ON, WHICH IS WHAT DOES THE PROJECT NEED? BUT THAT WOULD NEVER COME TO DEC YOU DIDN'T DISQUALIFY ANY OF THE ALICE CREEK PEOPLE. NOT, NOT WITH RESPECT TO THAT. YOU REMEDIED ON ALL OF THEM FOR ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. NOT WITH RESPECT TO THAT. BUT THAT, THAT OTHER PROJECT I TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT WOULD BE, UM, IF THAT, IF THAT CONTRACTOR WERE PREPARING TO REAPPLY, THEY, THEY, THEY MIGHT BE A LIKELY, UM, SUBJECT FOR THIS PROCESS. THE VALUE IN THIS IS THE THREAT OF, OF I, I THINK SO. AND THAT'S WHAT BRINGS RESOLUTION TO CONFLICT. I THINK SO. AND, AND, AND, AND THE REASON WHY, VERY, VERY CONSCIOUSLY, WE START WITH NOTICE, [02:05:02] IT'S A BIG DEAL. AND THEN INFORMAL DISCUSSION, STEP ONE IS, IS THERE SOMETHING WE'RE MISSING? LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS. WE'RE REALLY CONCERNED YOU, YOU KNOW, HERE'S, HERE'S WHERE THIS CAN GO. WHAT, WHAT'S A POSSIBLE RESOLUTION? UM, THAT THAT'S THAT'S VERY MUCH THE SAME KIND OF WORK THAT OUR STAFF DO ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS TO RESOLVE. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, CONDITIONS ARE NEVER EXACTLY AS THEIR, AS THEIR, NO. ONCE IT GETS TO THIS CHART, IT'S ALL LAWYERS. RIGHT. YOU KNOW? RIGHT. CONTRACTORS ARGUE WITH ENGINEERS, BUT, BUT, BUT LAWYERS ARGUE WITH LAWYERS. BUT THE TRICK IS TO MANAGE PROJECTS THE WAY PROJECTS NEED TO BE MANAGED SO THE PUBLIC GETS THE RESULT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO FOR THE, FOR THE EXPENDITURE OF THEIR DOLLARS. UM, AND THAT'S A VERY MUCH A PRAGMATIC PROJECT MANAGEMENT RIGHT. KIND OF ISSUE. AND, AND WE, THIS IS TO BOLSTER THAT, NOT IN LIEU OF THAT, WE DO TALK ABOUT TRYING TO BE THE, UM, EMPLOYMENT, UH, OF, OF CHOICE OR THE, UH, AGENCY OF BID CHOICE SO THAT WE DO GET THE BEST BIDS FROM OUTSIDE CONTRACTORS. UM, I THINK THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN IS, UM, OVER THE TOP IN TERMS OF MORE THAN WE NEED. UH, IT DOES, I MEAN, IT HANDLES THE, THAT 1% CASE, BUT IT INFLUENCES THE OTHER CASES. HAVE WE VISITED WITH ANY OF THE CON UH, ENGINEERING CONTRACTORS, ASSOCIATIONS, ECA NORTH BAY BUILDERS EXCHANGE? HAVE WE VETTED THIS IN THAT COMMUNITY BEFORE TAKING, AND WE TALKED TO THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THIS? NO, WE DIDN'T. WE GOT SOME, UH, PAUL CAN SPEAK TO THIS. WE GOT AN INQUIRY, I THINK FROM ECA, UM, THAT DIDN'T SOUND LIKE THEY'D FULLY REVIEWED THE ORDINANCE YET, BUT, YOU KNOW, IF THE COUNCIL WANTS US TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION, WE CAN, WE WERE TRYING TO HAVE THE TOOL IN PLACE FOR THE TEAM WITH SOME OF THE BIG PROJECTS COMING UP. SO THAT WAS A TIME CONSIDERATION FOR US IN BRINGING THIS. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALWAYS, WE'RE ALWAYS HERE TO DO THE COUNCIL'S DIRECTION IN TERMS OF LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATIONS. AND THE BIGGER PROJECTS YOU GET BIGGER THAN COUNTY ENGINEERING ASSOCIATIONS. IT'S DIFFERENT PLAYER POOL. UM, BUT STAFF HAS TREMENDOUS LATITUDE IN HOW THEY WRITE THE SPECIFICATIONS. UM, SO ONCE YOU HAVE A BAD ACTOR, YOU GOT A PROBLEM. BUT IN KEEPING OUT THE BAD ACTOR, LIKE WE SAW THE TRAFFIC CONTROL, MOST AGENCIES ARE SPECIFYING THE TRAFFIC CONTROL BE SEPARATED FROM ALL OTHER WORK. SO IT'S A SUB. SO IT'S A PRIMARY INTEREST OF THAT SUB TO DO THAT. RIGHT. AND NOT A SECONDARY TASK FROM A PLUMBER. SO, YOU KNOW, STAFF HAS MANY WAYS OF MAKING SPECIFICATIONS BETTER AND TITRE, SO THE PROBLEMS GO AWAY. AND, UM, AND THAT'S WHAT KIND OF ACCUMULATED EXPERIENCE GETS YOU IS CLAUSES THAT YOU CAN, UH, WORK WITH. UM, AND SO, UH, I THINK THAT, UM, I, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A DOWNSIDE OTHER, OTHER THAN MAKING OUR BIDDING ENVIRONMENT MORE DIFFICULT. BUT, UM, BUT THIS CERTAINLY ADDRESSES A REAL THING IN THE CONSTRUCTION COMMUNITY, RIGHT? THERE'S A LOT OF HORROR STORIES OUT THERE. YEAH. OUR HOPE, OUR HOPE IN PUTTING IN STRUCTURING THIS THIS WAY AND BASING IT ON THE MODELS THAT WE DID, UM, AND IN CONJUNCTION WITH STAFF AND OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM, IS THOSE THINGS ARE SO SERIOUS THAT HIGH QUALITY CONTRACTORS, WHICH AS YOU HEARD FROM PAUL, ARE, ARE THE, THE LION SHARE OF WHO WE'RE WORKING WITH, THANK GOODNESS. UM, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THOSE CONTRACTORS. RIGHT. BUT THIS IS FOR WHEN YOU HAVE A CONTRACTOR UNDER MOST, MOST OF THESE ITEMS ARE WHEN THEY'RE UNDER CONTRACT. UM, SO, UM, THIS IS, WILL YOU TAKE THIS OR WILL IT REMEDY? SO AGAIN, IT'S A NO, THIS, THIS WOULD TYPICALLY, WHEN THIS WOULD COME INTO PLAY WOULD BE, THERE'S A RESPONSIVE BID FROM A BIDDER WHO WE BELIEVE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE TO DO THIS WORK BECAUSE OF THESE KINDS OF ISSUES. AND WE WOULD NOT WANNA AWARD THE PROJECT TO THEM, RATHER THAN, AND WE WANNA AWARD IT, BUT WE DON'T WANNA AWARD TO THEM. SO WE DON'T WANNA NECESSARILY CANCEL ALL THE BIDS. YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE, HAVE INFORMATION FROM ANOTHER AGENCY, PARDON ME? FROM ANOTHER AGENCY OR YOUR OWN PAST EXPERIENCE. CORRECT. AND CORRECT. IF YOU HAD PAST DISQUALIFIED, THEY WOULDN'T BE IN THAT POOL. SO IT'S ONLY IF YOU CAN GET THIS INFORMATION FROM OTHER AGENCIES OR OURSELVES. YEAH. BUT IF YOU ALREADY HAD A DISQUALIFICATION, YOUR BID DETERMINATION'S EASY, HE'S DISQUALIFIED HERE. RIGHT. IF WE, IF, IF THAT WAS ALREADY IN PLACE, THAT THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE EASIER. BUT I THINK THE MOST, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S NEW IN PETALUMA, I THINK THE MOST LIKELY SCENARIO WOULD BE WE, WE HAVE A BID. WE'VE SEEN OTHER, UH, TOOLS, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, WORKERS' COMP, UH, RATING LEVELS, UH, D AND B FINANCIAL LEVELS, UM, THAT CAN ALL BE PUT INTO CONTRACTS TO, TO THEY, THEY CAN, WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT RESPONSIBILITY CRITERIA IS, UM, AND THE, THIS IS VERY CLEAR IN THE, IN THE, UM, [02:10:01] IN THE CASE LAW AND SOME AWARDING AGENCIES HAVE MESSED UP WITH IT, IS THAT, UM, AND, AND THIS IS HOW DYLAN DESCRIBED IT IN OUR CHARTER, IN OUR MUNICIPAL CODE, WE'RE OBLIGATED TO AWARD OUR CONTRACTS THAT ARE SUBJECT TO FORMAL BIDDING TO THE LOWEST RESPONSIVE BID. OUR RESPONSIBLE BIDDER. UM, THAT'S THE LEGAL REQUIREMENT. IT'S NOT, WE GET TO CHOOSE WHO WE THINK IS THE MOST RESPONSIBLE BIDDER. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS. RESPONSIBLE IS LIKE A PASS FAIL. UM, SO YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S, THAT'S THE CONSIDERATION FOR FOR THAT. THIS IS FOCUSED ON, IT'S REALLY RESPONSIBILITY. COUNCIL MEMBER SCHIBS. UM, YEAH, GOOD POINTS. UH, THE MAYOR IS MAKING, UM, HOWEVER I CAN SEE THIS TO BE USED MORE FREQUENTLY WITH THE SMALLER, LESS EXPERIENCED NEW CONTRACTORS ENTERING IN TRYING TO GET INTO THIS MARKET WHO BITE OFF MORE THAN THEY CAN CHEW, END UP IN TROUBLE, AND THEN TRY TO SHORTCUT THINGS JUST TO GET OUT, UH, WITHOUT GETTING TOO MUCH A LOSS. SO I COULD SEE THAT HAPPENING AND THIS BEING USED IN THOSE CASES MORE FREQUENTLY, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE DRAWING IT NOT FROM THE BIG CONTRACTORS, BUT IF WE'RE JUST DOING THOSE THAT ARE CLEANING THE BATHROOMS, LET'S SAY, UM, THE SMALLER CONTRACTORS WHO ARE, UM, UH, JUST GETTING IN, JUST STARTING UP GOING. SO IN THOSE CASES, SO AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, AS, AS MAYOR WAS MENTIONING, A SHIFT FROM, UH, STAFF JUST WORKING WITH THE CONTRACTOR, TRYING TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION INTO MORE OF A LEGAL THING. AND I THINK IF YOU GO BACK TO THE PROCESS, THAT'S THE FORMAL, I THINK WHEN YOU GET TO THE FORMAL STAGE, THAT'S WHEN I THINK THAT'S WHEN WE START LAWYERING UP ON BOTH SIDES. MAYBE, UM, YOU TOGGLE BACK. THAT HAPPENS WHEN, WHEN, WHEN THE, WHEN THE LAWYERS START TALKING TO EACH OTHER RATHER THAN JUST STAFF TRYING TO WORK IT OUT, NEGOTIATING AT THAT POINT. THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, WELL COSTS NOW ARE GETTING ENTERED INTO BOTH SIDES AND THEN THE OUTCOME OF A DECISION'S GONNA GET MADE. AND THEN THE FINAL DECISION MIGHT BE DISQUALIFICATION FOR A COUPLE YEARS. UM, SO MY QUESTION IS, WHAT TIMING? UM, AS THE PROCESS GETS INTO THE FORMAL, UH, LET'S SAY, WHEN DOES IT TRIGGER LAWYER, UH, LAWYERS GETTING INVOLVED? AND WHAT TYPE OF TIMEFRAME ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS COULD HAPPEN FROM START TO FINISH WITHIN DAYS, WEEKS, OR MONTHS, DEPENDING UPON WHAT THAT IS? AND THE SECOND THING, ONCE WE GET TO A COST, THERE'S COST INVOLVED. 'CAUSE THERE'S COST. WE HAVE TO GET RID OF THEM AND GET SOMEONE NEW. HUGE COSTS NOW ARE IMPLIED. SO BESIDES JUST DISQUALIFICATION, CAN WE CHARGE FEES, GET REIMBURSED FOR, FOR LAWYERING UP? THE REIMBURSEMENTS DOES GO INTO, WILL IT EVER GET TO A COURT CASE TYPE THING AT THIS POINT OR BEFORE, AFTER. SO THOSE ARE, UH, CONCERNS I HAVE. UH, TIMING, UM, AND COSTS. AND THEN DOING MORE THAN JUST DISQUALIFICATION IN CASE THERE'S, THERE'S LARGE COSTS ON BOTH SIDES. WELL, UM, OKAY. SO, UH, LET'S SEE IF I CAN HIT ALL THOSE IN, IN IN SOME QUICK ANSWERS FOR YOU. UM, TIMING WISE, IF WE'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE A BID POOL, WHICH WE WOULD TYPICALLY BE DOING, 'CAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, CALIFORNIA PUBLIC AGENCIES IN, IN THE PUBLIC CONTRACT CODE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO REJECT ALL BIDS, UM, WITHOUT ANY FORMAL PROCESS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE A REASON. SO IT'S A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD. SO WE CAN ALWAYS DO THAT. SO IF WE'RE DOING THIS, IT'S BECAUSE WE THINK IT'S SO RISKY TO AWARD TO THE CONTRACTOR THAT'S THE RESPONSIVE LOW BIDDER THAT IT'S, IT'S IT'S WORTHWHILE TO, TO, TO AT LEAST HAVE START THIS PROCESS. UM, AND THAT MEANS WE'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE A BID POOL AND OUR CONTRACT DOCUMENTS GIVE US 90 DAYS. 90 DAYS. DAYS, YEAH. TO AWARD. SO WE'RE TALKING WEEKS, NOT MONTHS TO TRY TO DO THIS PROCESS. AND WE COULD DO THAT 'CAUSE WE CAN GET IT HERE. ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER, REMEMBER WE HAVE A POOL, SO IF ONE IS NOT AVAILABLE, ANOTHER WILL BE IN THE POOL AND WE CAN, THE NOTICE IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND THERE WILL HAVE BEEN SOME WORK AHEAD OF TIME AND A BASIS IN FACT, FOR THESE CONCERNS THAT STAFF HAVE AND THAT THEY'VE SHARED WITH, YOU KNOW, THE CITY MANAGER OR PAUL, IF SHE'S DELEGATED THE AUTHORITY TO HIM. SO WEEKS, NOT MONTHS. UM, THE, IN THE LAW, UM, THERE'S NO EXPECTATION THAT, UM, THAT BIDDERS HAVE TO BE AN AWARDED A PROJECT SUCH THAT THERE'S PRETTY LIMITED ABILITY FOR THEM TO RECOVER FEES OR COST AND MAKING A PROPOSAL. UM, IT'S KIND OF ON THEIR NICKEL. AND I THINK THE SAME, THE SAME REASONING WILL BE TRUE OF US INITIATING THIS PROCESS. IT'LL BE ON OUR NICKEL. UM, AND IT WOULD BE ON THE CONTRACTOR'S NICKEL, THEIR EFFORT TO, UM, TO DEFEND THEIR FITNESS TO DO THE WORK. 'CAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE AN INTEREST IN DOING THAT. JUST LIKE WE HAVE AN INTEREST OF MAKING SURE WE'RE NOT, UM, AWARDING [02:15:01] PUBLIC FUNDS TO SOMEONE WHO'S NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO RELY EX EX EXECUTE THE PROJECT BASED ON PAST EXPERIENCE AND OTHER FACTUAL INFORMATION WE HAVE. SO, UM, THAT'S HOW THAT WOULD GO. AND, AND WE'D BENEFIT FROM, UM, YOU KNOW, FROM HAVING AN IN-HOUSE LEGAL COUNSEL TEAM TO DO THIS. I USED TO, THE ANSWER THIS PROCEEDING ARE, ARE VERY RARE IF THE CONTRACTORS IN THE GREEN STAFF THERE AND STAFF HAS DONE REVIEW AND STAFF CALLS 'EM AND, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY CALL 'EM IN AND SAY, LOOK, I I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO AWARD YOU. I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA RECOMMEND AWARD. I'VE ALREADY CHATTED WITH OUR ATTORNEY. HE SAYS, I'M RIGHT ABOUT THESE REASONS. THE CONTRACTOR BEFORE, HE SAYS, WELL, I DON'T WANT A LETTER OF DISQUALIFICATION ON MY RECORD. CAN YOU LET ME OUT OF THIS? AND THERE ARE VEHICLES FOR ACHIEVING THAT TOO. THEY CAN SEEK TO WITHDRAW, BUT THAT'S PRETTY TIGHT TIMEFRAME. YEAH. USUALLY A WEEK OR SO. YEAH. YEAH. LIKE FIVE DAYS, I THINK BUSINESS DAYS. I JUST, I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE CONSEQUENCES. ONCE THIS IS TRIGGERED, UHHUH, THEN WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES FOR US? AND THEN FOR THE CONTRACTORS, ASSUMING THAT IT'S GONNA BE SOMEONE WHO'S SMALLER, GETTING STARTED, UM, AND TRYING YOUR BEST, BUT JUST CAN'T HANDLE IT. UM, AND THEN THEY INTO TROUBLE AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'RE GOING, OKAY, SO HOW CAN I GET OUT OF THIS? UM, , I THINK IT'S AT THE TWO ENDS. I THINK, I MEAN, WE'VE EXPERIENCED THAT ONE THING. YOU, YOU'RE, YOU'RE SURMISED AND THAT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, AND A CONTRACTOR WITH AN A LICENSE AND, UM, CAN DO ANY TRADE. THEY CAN, THEY CAN DO ANY, ANY SPECIALTY LICENSE WORK, ANYTHING. UM, EXCEPT FOR SOME SUPER ULTRA SPECIALIZED THINGS LIKE HAZARDOUS MATERIAL ABATEMENT AND STUFF. UM, AND A SMALLER, NEWER FIRM CAN GET IN TROUBLE BY, BY TRYING TO, TO MAYBE STRETCH BEYOND WHAT THEIR EXPERIENCE ALLOWS THEM TO DO. ESPECIALLY DOING PUBLIC AGENCY WORK, ESPECIALLY MORE COMPLICATED WORK BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE DEMANDING. UM, THERE, THERE'S MORE ENGINEERING, UM, COMPLICATED EQUIPMENT, UM, COMPLICATED REGULATORY STANDARDS, COMPLICATED PERMITTING, UM, COMPLICATED WORK WINDOWS IF IT'S IN, IN, YOU KNOW, LIKE BY THE RIVER SAY. SO, UM, AND, BUT THE OTHER END IS THE ONE DYLAN MENTIONED OF ACTUALLY VERY BIG CONTRACTORS DOING BAD STUFF ON PURPOSE. UM, AND THAT'S EXTREMELY RARE, BUT IT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND IT HITS THE NEWS. BUT UNDER COUNCIL MEMBER SHRIVES EXAMPLE, WE WOULDN'T DISBAR SOMEBODY WHO IS NEW AND MAYBE WANTED TO PULL OUT MOST LIKELY. I MEAN, THAT'S WHY WE GO THROUGH THE INFORMAL PROCESS, RIGHT? SO THIS TAKES TIME AND RESOURCES AND WE'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF DELIVERING PROJECTS, NOT DOING A NECESSARILY ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEEDINGS OR HARMING PEOPLE'S BUSINESS REPUTATIONS THAT DON'T TRULY, YOU KNOW, DESERVE IT BASED ON THE FACTS. SO THIS IS A LAST RESORT QUESTION PRETTY WELL. THANK YOU. JUST OKAY. TO CLEAR THAT SCENARIO UP JUST IN CASE WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THIS. YEAH. AND CONSEQUENCES. WE HAVE A LOT OF TOOLS AND WE'RE USED TO DEPLOYING 'EM TO AVOID THIS KIND OF THING. UM, I CAN'T REMEMBER, BUT, BUT NONETHELESS, STAFF HAVE SEEN THE VALUE OF HAVING THESE TOOLS AT THEIR DISPOSAL, AND WE'VE TRIED TO CRAFT THEM IN SUCH A WAY SO THAT WE HAVE GOOD ANSWERS FOR YOUR QUESTIONS. AND, AND, YOU KNOW, IF WE DON'T, THEN, THEN WE STILL HAVE WORK TO DO. UM, BUT I THINK WE'VE ANTICIPATED THESE, THESE KIND OF CONCERNS. GOOD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WE'VE DONE OUR BEST QUESTIONS. I THINK IT'S JUST DIFFICULT TO, UH, UH, DISCUSS THE WORST CASE SCENARIO AND BE SURE THAT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE THE PACKAGE RIGHT WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO GET THE OUTLIER, NOT THE BULK OF WORK. THAT'S A CHALLENGE. AND, UM, MME. CLARK, I FORGET, DID WE DO PUBLIC COMMENT YET? OKAY. WE HAVE NOT. SO, UM, AT THIS POINT WE CARRIED THE, WE DID RECEIVE ONE COMMENT, WHICH IS POSTED ONLINE. UH, I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY CARDS, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE I MIGHT GET ONE. AWESOME. THANK YOU. AND OUR FIRST SPEAKER IS NICK HARRIS TO BE FOLLOWED BY CHANTELLE ROGERS. HI, UH, GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. I WANNA SPEAK TO WHAT THIS ORDINANCE, UH, REPRESENTS. THIS PROPOSAL WOULD SHIFT SIGNIFICANTLY SIGNIFICANT CONTRACTING AUTHORITY HISTORICALLY EXERCISED WITH TRANSPARENCY AND OVERSIGHT BY THE CITY COUNCIL INTO THE HANDS OF APPOINTED STAFF. THE CITY MANAGER AND DESIGNEES WOULD NOW HAVE UNILATERAL POWER TO DISQUALIFY CONTRACTORS, SUBCONTRACTORS, SUPPLIERS, AND AFFILIATED ENTITIES FOR UP TO FIVE YEARS. IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY EXPANSION OF ADMINISTRATIVE DISCRETION, AND IT COMES WITH VERY LITTLE EXPLANATION OF WHY SUCH A CHANGE IS NEEDED. I'M GONNA DEVIATE REALLY FROM THE, FROM WHAT I HAD PREPARED. [02:20:01] UM, I THINK THE CORE OF IT IS THAT THE CHARTER ENTRUSTS THIS DISQUALIFICATION MECHANISM INTO THE HANDS OF YOU, AN ELECTED BODY IN A PUBLIC HEARING, MOVING THAT INTO AN ADMINISTRATIVE THEATER, WHICH IS NOT PUBLIC, WHICH KIND OF SURPRISINGLY, UH, IS GONNA END UP COSTING THE CITY, UH, MONEY TO ORCHESTRATE THESE, THESE HEARINGS. UH, I JUST, I I DO NOT THINK THAT YOU SHOULD BE GIVING UP YOUR ROLE AS THE ELECTED TO MAKE THIS DECISION. I THINK THAT SOME OF THESE RULES, UH, SOME OF THE IDEAS BEHIND THIS, UH, IT, IT'S, IT IS INCREDIBLY BROAD, UH, FOR ONE. AND, AND I THINK THAT THERE'S SOME UNNECESSARY EXCITEMENT AROUND JUST HOW BROAD THIS IS AND HOW GRANULAR IT GETS. UM, FROM THE WAY THAT I'M UNDERSTANDING, I MEAN, OKAY, SIMILAR ORDINANCE EXISTS IN SAN FRANCISCO, OAKLAND, SAN JOSE, SAN DIEGO, AND LOS ANGELES. THAT'S KIND OF A CALIFORNIA'S GREATEST HITS OF PUBLIC, UH, AGENCIES THAT HAVE SIGNIFICANT ISSUES MAINTAINING PUBLIC TRUST, FRAUD, UH, IMPROPRIETIES, THINGS LIKE THAT. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST LIST OF CITIES TO BE CITING, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS. THE WAY THAT I WAS UNDERSTANDING THIS WHEN I WAS READING EVERYTHING WAS MORE OF A PROACTIVE DISQUALIFICATION. AND I THINK THE REASON I WAS THINKING THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE ABILITY TO CITE ANOTHER AGENCY'S DISQUALIFICATION LIST TO PREVENT A BIDDER FROM BIDDING ON A PROJECT. UH, I MAY BE MISUNDERSTANDING THAT, AND THAT IT IS TO DISQUALIFY A BID AFTER IT'S BEEN RECEIVED. IT'S, IT'S VERY CONFUSING. AND I GUESS THE HAT THAT I'M WEARING RIGHT NOW IS, UH, A RESIDENT TAXPAYER, BUT ALSO, UH, A PRIME AND SUBCONTRACTOR THAT BIDS ON PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS. THIS IS REALLY, UH, A TOOL AND A MECHANISM. I UNDERSTAND MAYBE THE INTENT IS TO USE IT AS A SCARE TACTIC. YOU DON'T NEED TO, UH, DELEGATE THE, THE POWER, UH, THAT YOU HAVE AS WRITTEN IN THE CHARTER TO AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS. AND REALLY, IF YOU'RE GONNA BE, IF YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE HAVE TO DISQUALIFY THESE CONTRACTORS, THEY SHOULD BE PAYING A FEE TO ACTUALLY APPEAL IT'S NEEDS WORK. THANK YOU. CHANTELLE ROGERS. HI. UM, SO I'M JUST A LITTLE UNCLEAR ON THE NECESSITY OF THIS CHANGE, UM, FROM WHAT HAS BEEN CLARIFIED. THIS IS, THIS DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANY, UM, PROJECTS IN PROCESS. THIS IS PURELY AT THE BIDDING LEVEL. UM, AND SO, UM, I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES THE VETTING PROCESS LOOK LIKE NOW? AND HOW DOES THIS, HOW DOES THIS CHANGE? DO WE NOT TAKE A LOOK AT THESE KINDS OF THINGS WHEN WE ARE DETERMINING THE ELIGIBILITY OR, UH, UM, WHETHER OR NOT A CONTRACTOR SHOULD, I MEAN, THERE WE HAVE TO BE LOOKING AT ALL THIS CRITERIA. SO WHAT'S SO DIFFERENT BETWEEN WHAT WE DO NOW AND WHAT WE WOULD DO IN THE FUTURE? AND HOW EXACTLY DO WE HAVE REPEAT OFFENDERS? I'M, I'M A LITTLE UNCLEAR ON THAT ONE. YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY BLOWS A PROJECT AND THEN COMES BACK AND SAYS, NOW I WANT THIS NEW PROJECT, ISN'T THERE AN AUTOMATIC, LIKE, YEAH, NO, DUDE, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK SO. LIKE, YOU DIDN'T PERFORM THE LAST TIME. DO WE NEED A WHOLE NEW CRITERIA FOR ADDRESSING, UM, CONTRACTORS WHO, WHO CLEARLY ARE NOT UP TO THE TASK OF THE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE GIVEN THEM? UM, AND, UM, AND I HAVE AN ISSUE ALSO WITH, WITH THE, WITH, WITH THE IDEA THAT ONE PERSON ASSIGNED IN AN ADMINISTRATIVE CAPACITY WOULD BE THE PERSON WHO WOULD DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THIS CONTRACTOR, UM, NEEDS TO BE DISQUALIFIED. I DON'T, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU PUT IN A BID AND YOU DON'T GET CHOSEN, PRESUMABLY YOU SHOULD BE CHOSEN IF YOU'RE THE LOWEST. AND IF YOU'RE THE LOWEST AND YOU DON'T GET CHOSEN, THEN YOU HAVE SOME OTHER REASON WHY YOU DIDN'T GET CHOSEN. AND THEN, AND, AND THAT'S THE CRITERIA. I MEAN, YOU [02:25:01] KNOW, I I I FEEL LIKE THIS IS JUST A WHOLE BIG LOO. LIKE, LIKE IT'S A, IT'S A SOLUTION LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM. UM, AND I, I, I REALLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S A, IT'S A MUNICIPAL CODE CHANGE THAT'S A REALLY BIG DEAL. AND, AND IT SEEMS LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE, I, I'M A, I'M A LITTLE UNCLEAR ON HOW WE CAN'T ADDRESS THESE ISSUES OF CONTRACTORS WHO ARE NOT UP TO PAR WITHIN OUR CURRENT CRITERIA AND VETTING PROCESS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I THINK I'D LIKE TO SOLICIT, UH, ANSWERS TO A COUPLE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE ARISEN RIGHT THERE. BUT I THINK I'D LIKE TO PUT PARAPHRASE A LITTLE OR REDIRECT A LITTLE. UM, IF THE CITY IS GOING TO, UH, DIS UM, DIS UM, DISQUALIFY DISQUALIFY A, UM, A LOW BIDDER, UH, WOULD THAT COME BEFORE COUNCIL, UH, WITH THE MEMO SAYING WHY, WHY THAT QUALIFIED, WHY THE PERSON WAS DISQUALIFIED? SO, UM, IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE TIMING. AS YOU KNOW, IT'S THE COUNCIL WHO AWARDS THOSE CONTRACTS USING THE COUNCIL. SO ALL AWARDS OF CONTRACTS COME TO COME TO COUNSEL, RIGHT. 'CAUSE THE PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS COME BEFORE THE COUNCIL. SO IN THOSE, WE'VE SEEN THE DISQUALIFICATION REASONING. I KNOW USUALLY AN ATTACHED LETTER FROM THE ATTORNEY, AND THAT'S HEARD BY THIS BODY AND, AND YOU REGARDING RESPONSIVENESS, NOT RESPONSIBLENESS. YEAH. YES. AND IT'S USUALLY, UM, NOT IN CONSENT. USUALLY YOU DO PUT THAT ON ITEMS, RIGHT? YOU, YOU'VE SEEN, I THINK THAT ANSWERS MAYBE THE FIRST QUESTION WAS WHY ARE WE ABROGATING, UM, ON WHEN A CON, YOU KNOW, REGARDING A CONTRACT AWARD, BUT IN REGARDS TO DISQUALIFICATION PROCESS, THAT'S, THAT'S STILL ON THE TABLE. THE PROCESS DOES GO. MY SECOND QUESTION IS, IS, UH, DOES THIS PROCESS, MUST THIS PROCESS BE EXHAUSTED PRIOR TO THE CONTRACTOR'S LEGAL OPTIONS? YES. UM, AND YOU KNOW, THE, AND I AND I, AND IF THEY CHOSE, THEY COULD GO TO THE EXTENT OF, YOU KNOW, FILING A WRIT ON ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING DECISION. UM, SO, SO THIS ACTUALLY EXTENDS THE, UM, RESOLUTION PERIOD PRIOR TO LITIGATION. THIS PUTS YES. MORE HEARING TO, TO THIS. IT, IT'S GOT A FEW LAYERS. THE WHOLE PROCESS IS ONE LAYER. THE INFORMAL MEETING, THE NOTICE AND INFORMAL MEETING IS THE, IS THE FIRST INITIAL LAYER. UM, BUT THEN THERE'S THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S POTENTIAL LITIGATION FOLLOWING THAT. ONE OF THE THINGS TO BEAR IN MIND ABOUT PUBLIC CONTRACT LITIGATION AND WHEN, YOU KNOW, WE, WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH ATTORNEYS FOR CONTRACTORS AND, AND OUR TEAM AND PROJECT MANAGEMENT TEAMS, WE SOMETIMES HAVE TO REMIND THEM THAT, UM, THERE'S NO FEE SHIFTING IN IN PUBLIC CONTRACT LITIGATION. SO ALL THE PARTIES GET AT THE END OF THE DAY IS WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO GET UNDER THE CONTRACT, LESS THEIR LEGAL EXPENSES. SO IT'S NOT VERY ATTRACTIVE TO PURSUE, AND IT'S ALWAYS BETTER TO RESOLVE WITHOUT LITIGATION. UM, IT'S ONLY WHEN THE, THE STAKES ARE VERY, VERY HIGH IN TERMS OF DOLLARS THAT IT'S EVEN WORTH LITIGATING. AND I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE HIGH HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, IF NOT THE MILLIONS. UM, BUT THIS PROCESS WAS PURPOSELY DESIGNED TO BE ADMINISTRATIVE AND NOT THE COUNCIL SITTING AS THE HEARING BODY. UH, BECAUSE FIRST OF ALL, YOU'RE THE AWARDING BODY UNDER THE, UNDER THE CITY'S CHARTER MUNICIPAL CODE. BUT ALSO THAT IS A WAY TO POTENTIALLY, IT'S THE COUNCIL WHO ARE MOST EXPOSED TO PRESSURE FROM A CONSTITUENTS, UM, SUCH THAT DECISIONS CAN, CAN, UM, POTENTIALLY BE VIEWED AS BECOMING POLITICIZED. AND SO WE PURPOSELY DID NOT SET UP THAT. CAN I ASK, UH, SO IN OUR CURRENT PROCEDURE FOR AWARD AND DISQUALIFICATION, IS THE COUNCIL MEETING THE APPEAL? NO. SO NO, THERE, THERE WOULD, IT WILL BE ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER AND A WR AND THE WAY IN THE CURRENT PRACTICE CURRENT WOULD GO ER, WOULD GO STRAIGHT TO CITY COUNCIL IF WE DECIDED TO DISQUALIFY A LOW BID FOR NOT BEING RESPONSIBLE. IS THERE NOT A NO PROCESS CURRENTLY? NO, THAT'S NOT THAT THAT CALLS OUT THE APPEAL LEVELS. THAT'S ACT. SO I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT. UM, THE SPEAKER JUST SPOKE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WELL, WHY CAN'T WE DO THIS NOW WITHOUT THIS PROCESS? AND THE ANSWER IS WE CAN, IT WOULD BE AN AD HOC PROCESS AND IT WOULD BE PRETTY MUCH LIKE THAT BECAUSE THAT, WELL, THAT'S WHAT THE LAW PRETTY MUCH REQUIRES. UM, BUT IT WOULD BE AD HOC. SO THIS WOULD BE THE PROCESS BY WHICH WE WOULD, UM, BY, BY THIS KIND OF LEGISLATION THAT WE COULD USE TO PROVIDE FAIRNESS TO A CONTRACTOR AND [02:30:01] ACTUALLY DECLARE A PERIOD OF, OF, UM, OF DISQUALIFICATION. THIS WOULD BE THE PROCESS. WE COULD DO IT WITHOUT THIS. AND I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN PROCEEDINGS THAT ARE DONE WITHOUT THIS, BUT IT'S AD HOC. IT'S TAKES A LOT MORE TIME. IT'S, IT'S CUMBERSOME. THERE'S, YOU'RE NOT GONNA PRESERVE A BID POOL THAT WAY. THAT'S, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO DO IT IN AN, IN AN EXPEDITIOUS WAY. UM, THIS DOES NOT, THE CHARTER MAKES THE COUNCIL. AND ALSO GENERALLY, EVEN IN GENERAL AS CITIES, THE, THE CONTRACTING POWER THAT IS WIELDED BY CITY COUNCILS AND NOT STAFF, UM, THIS DOESN'T CHANGE THAT, BUT THE CHARTER DOES NOT PRESCRIBE A DISQUALIFICATION PROCESS. IT'S THE LAW THAT DEFINES HOW RESPONSIBILITY IS, IS DETERMINED AND WHAT, WHAT CAN BE BASIS FOR FINDING SOMEONE NOT RESPONSIBLE. OKAY, GREAT. THANKS. UH, COUNCILMAN BARNACLE. YEAH. UM, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THIS. I, UM, HAVING TO ALWAYS GO WITH THE LOWEST BIDDER, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO. SO THE ABILITY TO DISQUALIFY THOSE CONTRACTORS NOW AND HAVING A PROCESS TO DO SO IS WHY WE'RE DOING THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD EXPERIENCES WITH THAT. AND IF THEY COME BACK IN AS THE LOWEST BIDDER, UM, IT'S HARD FOR US TO DISQUALIFY THEM ON THE BASIS OF BEING RESPONSIBLE IF WE DON'T HAVE A PROCESS FOR DUBBING THEM THAT. AND THAT'S WHAT THIS DOES. SO, UM, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF IT. I THINK PROBABLY THE MORE IMPACTFUL USE OF IT IS TO OUR EXISTING CONTRACTORS TO SAY, YOU KNOW, IF THIS DOESN'T GET CLEANED UP, WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, WE MAY MOVE DOWN THIS PATH AND, YOU KNOW, DISQUALIFY YOU FROM FUTURE BIDS, UM, NOTHING'S GONNA GET ESCALATED QUICKER THAN THAT EMAIL. UM, AND SO I THINK THAT'S THE, THE PROBABLY THE MOST IMPACTFUL USE FOR IT. UM, YOU KNOW, MY ONLY CONCERN WAS, UM, LIKE THE, THE ESCALATION PROCESS OF, OF HOW WE MAKE THE DECISIONS. UM, BUT I THINK THOSE QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED. UM, AND THIS IS, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY PROTECTING US FROM BAD ACTORS. IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD WANT. SO I'LL UM, SAY THAT AND MOVE THE MOTION, MOVE THE ITEM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I SECOND THAT. I HAVE A MOTION FROM BARNACLE, A SECOND FROM CATER THOMPSON. AND A COMMENT, REAL FAST CLARIFICATION. THIS ISN'T JUST PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS, IT'S ALL DEPARTMENTS PROJECTS. DOES IT ALSO GO TO BIGGER CONTRACTS LIKE GARBAGE CONTRACTS THAT ARE MANY YEARS OR LANDSCAPERS? UH, IT WOULD NOT, IT GOES TO PROCUREMENTS, BUT NOT OUR FRANCHISES. OUR FRANCHISES, UH, UH, THERE'S A WHOLE SEPARATE BODY OF LAW AND EVEN PARTS OF OUR CHARTER THAT DEAL SEPARATELY WITH FRANCHISES, THAT IS A KIND OF A CONTRACT. THAT'S A PRETTY SPECIALIZED ONE. UM, SO THIS GOES TO OUR OTHER PROCUREMENTS. OKAY. AND SO IT, AND THAT, THAT ARE BID AND IT, SO NOT PROFESSIONAL SERVICES. THOSE ARE NOT, OKAY. THOSE ARE NOT, NOT PROFESSIONAL SERVICES. THOSE ARE NOT COMPETITIVELY BID, BUT PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS ARE, UM, UH, SUPPLY CONTRACTS ARE EQUIPMENT, CONTRACTS ARE LANDSCAPING, HOUSEKEEPING, UH, THAT WOULD BE SERVICES. YEAH. THOSE THAT IT WOULDN'T APPLY TO. IT'S JUST THE PUBLIC WORKS CONTRACTS AND THE GOOD SERVICE, UH, MATERIALS AND EQUIPMENT. YEAH. OKAY. THE ONES THAT WE, THAT ARE, THAT ARE THE ONES THAT ARE CHARTER AND OUR MUNICIPAL CODE REQUIRES US TO COMPETITIVELY BID. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR CLARIFICATION. DOES THAT INCLUDE LANDSCAPE ASSESSMENT THAT, UH, DISTRICT CONTRACTORS OR, I'M JUST ASKING THAT SPECIFICALLY. THAT'S A SERVICE THAT WE CAN HAVE THE ABILITY TO, SO IF I, UM, I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS I'M TIRED IN HAVING A BRAIN CRAMP, BUT IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, OUR LANDSCAPE CONTRACTS ARE SERVICE CONTRACTS, BUT THEY'RE PREVAILING WAGE CONTRACTS. CORRECT. YEAH. SO THEY'RE NOT COMPETITIVELY BID. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. I DID NOT KNOW THAT. UH, COUNCIL MEMBER SCHIBS, UM, A QUESTION THEN MADE ME A COMMENT QUESTION WOULD BE, UH, SO UNDER CONTRACTS, UM, WOULD THIS ALSO INCLUDE CONTRACTS JUST FOR PEOPLE WORKING? THERE WAS A PERSON WHO WOULD BE CONTRACTED TO DO WORK JUST TO, JUST TO DO WORK CONSULTANT, LET'S SAY, WOULD APPLY TO THE PEOPLE NOT PROFESSIONAL SERVICE CONTRACT WOULD NOT APPLY TO PROFESSIONAL SERVICE CONTRACTS. OKAY, GOOD. I, BECAUSE I CAN, UH, SEE THIS AS, THOSE ARE DISCRETIONARY AWARDS. THEY'RE NOT SUBJECT TO COMPETITIVE BIDDING. THEY'RE REALLY BASED ON THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THE PERSON. UM, THINGS LIKE ARCHITECT SERVICES, ENGINEERING SERVICES, IT MIGHT BE EASIER TO EXPLAIN THE CONTRACTS THAT COUNCIL AWARDS. SO WHEN YOU SEE IN YOUR CONSENT CALENDAR, THOSE ARE THE CONTRACTS THAT THIS ORDINANCE WOULD APPLY TO. NOT SERVICE CONTRACTS, NOT SERVICE. OKAY. LIKE VEHICLE PURCHASES FOR EXAMPLE. THIS WOULD APPLY THE ONES THAT, THAT YOU HAVE TO APPROVE USING YOUR CONTRACTING POWER. OKAY. 'CAUSE JUST WELL KNOWN IN SEVERAL INDUSTRIES, FOLKS WILL, WILL DO, GET FIRED, MOVE TO A NEW LOCATION, GET REHIRED, AND YOU'RE NOT REALLY [02:35:01] ALLOWED TO INVESTIGATE TO THE PRIOR AND PEOPLE MOVE, MOVE, MOVE, MOVE AFTER GETTING FIRED, FIRED, FIRED, FIRED. SO THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE, THAT'S, THAT'S WHY THE REFERENCE THINGS CAN HAPPEN BECAUSE WHAT SOMETIMES THERE'S REORGANIZATION OF CORPORATIONS FOR THE SAME REASONS. THE OTHER THING I SHOULD SAY TOO IS, UM, IN OUR, IN THE, IF YOU, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE STAFF REPORTS, WHEN WE'RE ASKING, RECOMMENDING AND SEEKING AN ACTION ON AN AWARD FROM THE COUNCIL, WE TALK ABOUT THE PROCUREMENT HISTORY. LIKE IF, IF WE ARE RECOMMENDING THAT YOU FIND A BID NON-RESPONSIVE, IT'S IN THAT. AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT IT WOULD NEED TO BE IN THAT IF THERE WERE SOME KIND OF RESPONSIBILITY PROCEEDINGS. IF, IF YOU ADOPT THIS AND IT TAKES EFFECT AND IF THERE'S A PROCUREMENT THAT HAD SOME KIND OF RESPONSIBILITY PROCEEDINGS UNDER THESE REGULATIONS, IT WOULD BE ADDRESSED WHEN YOU GOT YOUR AWARD PACKAGE. FOR SURE. OTHERWISE, THEN THAT'S A FAILING ON STAFF'S PART. RIGHT. GOOD. AND THE SECOND PART OF THAT IS, UH, A COUPLE OF THE COMMENTS ABOUT, UM, WHO'S IN CONTROL IN THE PROCESS. AND I THINK THERE WAS A VALID POINT THAT THIS IS ALL, ALL STAFF ALL THE WAY TO THE VERY END. AND WHERE, AND THE COUNCIL REALLY DOESN'T NEED TO KNOW REALLY AT THE END, UM, 'CAUSE IT'S ALL UNDER UNDERSTAFFED CONTROL PRETTY MUCH START TO FINISH IT LOOKS LIKE. BUT THE REQUEST I WOULD HAVE IS, UM, WHEN IT GETS TO A FORM, SINCE IT'S GONNA BE RARE, IF IT GETS TO A FORMAL HEARING PART THAT WE ARE AT LEAST SHOULD BE, THERE SHOULD BE AT LEAST A REQUIREMENT THAT I WOULD HOPE OR AT LEAST A REQUEST THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD BE INFORMED AT THAT POINT, NOT AT THE TAIL END. OH BY THE WAY, THIS PERSON'S DISQUALIFIED. 'CAUSE THERE'S TWO PARTS OF THIS. THERE IS THE GETTING DISQUALIFIED IS, IS ONE PART, BUT BEING DISQUALIFIED AND THEN COMING BACK FOR ANOTHER BID IS A SECOND STEP. AGAIN, THOSE ARE TWO SPOTS. I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE INFORMATION AT LEAST, IF NOT SOME HELP IN MAKING DECISIONS ON, ON THESE THINGS. SO I THINK WE, WE NEED TO BE A PART OF THAT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE SURE. WELL I I SUSPECT THAT YOU'RE GONNA RECEIVE INPUT FROM THE CONTRACTORS PRETTY EARLY IN THIS PROCESS. UM, IF IT, IF IT COMMENCES. THE OTHER THING IS ONE OF THE TRANSPARENCY, IMPORTANT TRANSPARENCY FEATURES OF THIS, DYLAN MENTIONED HIS PRESENTATION AND THAT IS THAT THE CLERK WOULD BE MAINTAINING A LIST OF THOSE THAT ARE DISQUALIFIED. AND AS I WAS JUST MENTIONING, UM, THERE IS NO DELEGATION IN ANY OF THIS, OF THE CONTRACTS OF, OF THE COUNCIL'S CONTRACT AUTHORITY. THE COUNCIL RETAINS THAT. SO ANY AWARD OF ANY PROJECT, UM, THAT'S BEEN TOUCHED BY THIS PROCESS IS STILL GONNA COME TO THE COUNCIL FOR COUNCIL VOTE AND APPROVAL. AND SO THAT'S, YOU'LL GET THE INFORMATION THEN YOU'LL HAVE TO, SO, SO THERE'S NO DELEGATION OF THE COUNCIL'S CONTRACT AUTHORITY HERE. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE TO CLEAR, 'CAUSE THAT WAS THE QUESTION THAT CAME UP. YEP. NO, THAT'S FINE. THESE ARE ALL, THESE ARE ALL FAIR QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER DI CARLY. UM, I, I GUESS I'M STILL JUST A LITTLE BIT UNCLEAR ON THE NECESSITY OF IT, BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE A WAY TO HANDLE IT, AND AS YOU SAID, IT'S AN AD HOC AND THAT MIGHT TAKE MORE TIME, BUT THEN AT THE SAME TIME, EVERYBODY'S SAYING, WELL, WE'LL NEVER GET TO THIS POINT OF NEEDING THIS, THIS IN THE CODE HERE. UM, SO I MEAN IT'S HOW MUCH TIME IS ACTUALLY BEING LOST, HAVING TO DO THE CURRENT PROCESS AND AN AD HOC AND EVERYTHING. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT ARE WE REALLY GAINING BY DOING THIS IF IT'S NEVER GONNA GET USED? I, OR IF YOU WANT TO ADDRESS IT, ERIC, I CAN. YEAH, I, I MEAN I THINK THE BEST ANSWER FOR THAT IS THAT, UM, I'VE BEEN PETALUMA CITY ATTORNEY FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS AND, UM, WE'VE NEVER, THERE'S NEVER BEEN A PROCEEDING LIKE THAT. AND I THINK WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT STAFF HAVE, HAVE FOUND OTHER WAYS TO DEAL WITH THAT PROBLEM. UM, THAT SOMETIMES IS PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS AND, AND REACHING UNDERSTANDINGS WITH THE CONTRACTORS. AND IT'S SOMETIMES IT'S CONTINUING TO CONTRACT WITH SOMEONE WITH AN ENTITY THAT THEY PREFER NOT TO. SO THIS PROVIDES AN ALTERNATIVE TO THAT. YEAH, AND I'LL JUST ADD THAT IT, THIS ORDINANCE CAME FROM STAFF. THEY SAID WE NEED GREATER TEETH. I REALLY DO THINK THAT IT WILL HELP DURING THOSE CONTRACTS, MID-CONTRACT AND AGAIN, MID-CONTRACT. THE CONTRACTOR REALLY WE'RE AT THIS, THEIR MERCY. IT'S HARD TO TERMINATE A CONTRACT. I WE'VE ONLY DONE IT ONE TIME IN FIVE YEARS. UH, IT'S NOT AN EASY PROCESS. UH, IT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE AN OPEN CONSTRUCTION SITE, IF YOU TERMINATE, WE THEN HAVE TO GO FIND A NEW CONTRACTOR. IT'S AN OPEN CONSTRUCTION SITE. YOU'RE GONNA GET COMPLAINTS ABOUT, HEY, WHY IS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE GRAVEL THERE? THIS IS UNSAFE. SO IT'S A HARD THING TO DO AND I THINK WE DO RESOLVE A LOT OF THISFOR INFORMALLY, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE THIS TEETH AND THAT'S WHAT STAFF IS LOOKING FOR. YEAH, I THINK STAFF OR THANKS DYLAN. I THINK, YOU KNOW, UM, NOT TRYING TO PASS THE BUCK TO STAFF, BUT, BUT I, THEY'RE THE ONES THAT HAVE ASKED FOR THIS MECHANISM AND THIS IS WHAT WE'VE PREPARED, UM, IN RESPONSE. AND I THINK THEY CAN BEST SPEAK TO, UM, HOW, HOW THIS CAN BE USEFUL TO THEM. THAT'S [02:40:01] FROM THE LEGAL PERSPECTIVE. I WOULDN'T SAY WE'RE AT ANY CONTRACTOR'S MERCY. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE CONTRACTORS AND WE'RE, WE'RE FULLY CAPABLE OF ENSURING COMPLIANCE WITH OUR CONTRACTS AND EXERCISING REMEDIES UNDER THE CONTRACTS. BUT, UM, BUT I, I CAN IMAGINE CIRCUMSTANCES AND STAFF, I, I HA HAVE, I THINK IT'S THE SAME AS TRUE FOR STAFF OR THEY WOULDN'T HAVE REQUESTED THIS MECHANISM OR THIS WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL HELPFUL TOOL. AND THAT'S, THAT'S ALL. WELL, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE A TOOL. OKAY, MR. MAYOR, I'M GONNA CALL THE QUESTION. IS THAT GOOD CALL THE QUESTION? YOU MAY. I'LL SECOND THAT AND MAY WE HAVE A, UH, VOTE ROLL CALL. VOTE PLEASE. BARNAL AYE. GATOR THOMPSON? YES. DI CARLY? YES. NOW? YES. QUINT? YES. SCHIBS? YES. MCDONALD? YES. WONDERFUL. THANK YOU. MOTION CARRIES. GOOD. AND WITH THAT, UH, WE ARE ADJOURN. THAT'S OUR LAST ITEM. WE ARE ADJOURNED FOR THE EVENING. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. GOODNIGHT. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.