* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [CALL TO ORDER]
          [00:00:02]
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE HERE AT 6 0 5. 
          I THINK WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED, AND COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN WILL JOIN US UPON HIS ARRIVAL. 
          SO LET'S CALL TO ORDER AND, UH, GET A ROLL CALL PLEASE. 
          CLERK. 
          COMMISSIONER ABNER. 
          ABSENT. 
          COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN ABSENT. 
          COMMISSIONER NEWELL? HERE. 
          COMMISSIONER KUSON HERE. 
          COMMISSIONER HILT HERE AND ONLINE WITH NO ONE ELSE IN THE ROOM. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE. 
          PRESIDENT CHAIR MOSES HERE WE HAVE A QUORUM. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH. 
          WITH THAT, WE'LL MOVE TO GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT. 
          DURING GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO MAKE COMMENTS ON ITEMS OF PUBLIC INTEREST THAT ARE WITHIN THE PLANNING COMMISSION SUBJECT MATTER JURISDICTION, AND THAT ARE NOT LISTED ON THE CURRENT AGENDA. 
          PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO UP TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON. 
          DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF PERSONS WISHING TO ADDRESS THE PLANNING COMMISSION TIME WILL BE ALLOCATE ALLOCATED IN EQUAL SHARES TOTALING NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES. 
          SO I'LL OPEN GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT AND ASK THAT SPEAKERS BRING THEIR SPEAKER CARDS TO THE CLERK'S DESK IF THEY HAVE NOT ALREADY. 
          CLERK, HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT PRIOR TO THE MEETING WE RECEIVED? NO GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING. 
          OKAY. 
          ANY IN-PERSON SPEAKERS? NONE. 
          OKAY. 
          THEN WE'LL CLOSE GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT AND CONTINUE ON TO PRESENTATIONS. 
          AND WE HAVE NONE. 
          SO WE WILL QUICKLY CLOSE PRESENTATIONS AND CONTINUE ON TO OUR APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR WHICH WE SIMILARLY HAVE NO MINUTES TO REVIEW DURING THIS MEETING. 
          SO WE'LL CONTINUE ON TO OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS AND MATTERS FOR CONSIDERATION OF WHICH WE HAVE THREE THIS EVENING. 
          AND THE FIRST WE'RE 
          [1.
 Public Hearing – Recommendation to the City of Petaluma Planning Commission to Approve a Resolution Upholding the Director’s Decision to Approve Administrative Site Plan and Architectural Review, Subject to Revised Conditions of Approval, for the Wasatch Self Storage Phase 2 Project Located at 85 Corona Road (APN: 150-020-041) and Deny the Appeal Submitted by Mr. Edwin Bradley of Raff Law Firm on December 22, 2025, on Behalf of His Client, Ms. Deanna O’Brien. The approved Administrative Site Plan and Architectural Review was determined to be categorically exempt from further review under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) pursuant to CEQA Guidelines Section 15301 (Existing Facilities) and Section 15303 (New Construction or Conversion of Small Structures). THIS MEETING ITEM WAS PUBLISHED ON FRIDAY, MARCH 6, 2026.]
GONNA GO WITH MEETING ITEM ONE IS A PUBLIC HEARING. 
          IT IS A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY OF PETALUMA PLANNING COMMISSION TO APPROVE A RESOLUTION UPHOLDING THE DIRECTOR'S DECISION TO APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVE SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW SUBJECT TO REVISED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL FOR THE WASATCH SELF STORAGE PHASE TWO PROJECT LOCATED AT 85 CORONA ROAD, A PN 1 5 0 0 2 0 0 4 1, AND DENY THE APPEAL SUBMITTED BY MR. EDWIN BRADLEY OF RAF LAW FIRM ON DECEMBER 22ND, 2025 ON BEHALF OF HIS CLIENT, MS. DEANNA O'BRIEN. 
          THE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVE SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW WAS DETERMINED TO BE CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT FROM THE FURTHER REVIEW UNDER THE CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY ACT, ALSO KNOWN AS CE QA AND PURSUANT TO CQA GUIDELINES, SECTION 1 5 3 0 1 EXISTING FACILITIES AND SECTION 1 5 3 0 3 NEW CONSTRUCTION OR CONVERSION OF SMALL STRUCTURES. 
          WITH THAT, I'LL ANNOUNCE THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING AND THEREFORE DOES REQUIRE DISCLOSING ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS LOOKING DOWN FOR ANYONE WITH EX PARTE TO DISCLOSE. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, WITH THAT, WE WILL TURN IT OVER TO STAFF TO PRESENT, I BELIEVE TO ANDREW TRIPLE, OUR PLANNING MANAGER. 
          GREAT. 
          THANK YOU, CHAIR. 
          GOOD EVENING. 
          AND, UH, GOOD EVENING. 
          MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING'S, UH, FIRST PUBLIC HEARING, UH, IS REGARDING THE WASATCH UH, SELF STORAGE FACILITY, PHASE TWO. 
          IT IS AN APPEAL OF THE DIRECTOR'S DECISION TO APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVE SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW, UH, FOR THE, UH, PROJECT. 
          NO. 
          GREAT. 
          UH, THIS EVENING'S PRESENTATION WILL INCLUDE A BIT OF BACKGROUND. 
          WE'LL LOOK AT THE REGULATORY CONTEXT AND GROUNDS FOR APPEAL. 
          UH, WE'LL HAVE A BRIEF SUMMARY OF THE LAND USE AS WELL AS THE, UH, FINDINGS THAT WERE MADE TO, UH, APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR. 
          UH, SUBSEQUENTLY WE'LL REVIEW THE REVISIONS THAT WERE MADE TO THE PROJECT IN RESPONSE TO THE APPEAL THAT WAS FILED ON DECEMBER 22ND, 2025. 
          AND THEN, UH, CONCLUDE WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. 
          I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO NOTE THAT THE APPELLANT, UM, AND THE APPLICANT ARE BOTH HERE, UH, TO MAKE PRESENTATIONS THIS EVENING. 
          SO THIS PHASE TWO PROJECT IS, UM, THE, THE, THE SECOND AND FINAL STEP IN THE CONVERSION OF THE, UH, PETALUMA VALLEY AT ATHLETIC CLUB FACILITY LOCATED AT 85 CORONA ROAD OR OLD CORONA ROAD. 
          UM, AS WE SEE IN THE IMAGE HERE, UH, THE PROJECT WAS ABOUT A 2.6 ACRE SITE WHEN IT WAS THE PETALUMA VALLEY ATHLETIC CLUB. 
          UH, WHERE THE PROJECT, UM, NAME IS IN THAT SORT OF GRAYED OUT AREA IS THE ACTUAL CLUB FACILITY. 
          AND THEN THE EXISTING STORAGE FACILITY, UH, IS THE STORE QUEST FACILITY THAT WAS DEVELOPED, UM, IN THE AREA WHERE THE TENNIS COURTS, THE, UH, SPORTS COURT, SWIMMING POOL AND SO FORTH WERE HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY CONSTRUCTED. 
          UH, THE PROJECT PROPOSES CONVERTING THE TWO STORY APPROXIMATELY 20,000 SQUARE FOOT, UM, ATHLETIC CLUB FACILITY OR BUILDING INTO A CLIMATE CONTROLLED SELF STORAGE 
          [00:05:01]
FACILITY, PROVIDING APPROXIMATELY 170 INDOOR SELF STORAGE UNITS ACROSS TWO FLOORS. 
          AND, UH, ALSO PROPOSES 18 OUTDOOR RV STORAGE SPACES. 
          AND THAT, UH, THAT PROPOSAL IS RELATED TO MEETING ITEM TWO THIS EVENING, WHICH IS, UH, PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE RANCHO ARROYO BUSINESS PARK, PCD, UH, TO CREATE, UM, OUTDOOR RV STORAGE AS A PERMITTED ACCESSORY LAND USE. 
          NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. 
          AND SO, EXISTING CONDITIONS. 
          HERE WE SEE THE AERIAL, UH, WITH THE EXISTING, UM, BUILDING FACILITY OUTLINED IN RED, ALSO RUNNING ALONG THE REAR OF THE FACILITY. 
          UM, ITSELF IS A UTILITY ACCESS EASEMENT THAT EXTENDS FROM OLD CORONA ROAD THROUGH TO AUTO CENTER DRIVE. 
          AND THAT'S FIGURED IMPORTANTLY IN, UM, ONE OF THE ISSUES RELATED TO FENCING THAT WE'LL BE DISCUSSING THIS EVENING. 
          SO THE FACILITY, UH, FRONTING INDUSTRIAL DRIVE IS A VACANT PARCEL. 
          UM, AND AS WE'LL SEE THAT IN THE PCD AMENDMENT, THAT VACANT PARCEL IS ACTUALLY PART OF A DIFFERENT PCD THAT IS REGULATED BY THE AUTO CENTER PCD. 
          SO, UM, THIS, UH, A, UM, RANCHO AR ROYAL BUSINESS PARK, PCD, IS A BIT UNUSUAL IN THAT IT HAS THIS FINGER THAT EXTENDS DOWN, UM, TO REGULATE 1118 AUTO CENTER DRIVE OR THE STOR WEST FACILITY. 
          AND THEN THE, UH, WASATCH SELF STORAGE PHASE TWO PROJECT AS WELL, UH, IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO IT ON THE NORTH SIDE OR THE REAR OF THE, UH, EXISTING, UH, PROJECT SITE IS A RESIDENTIAL USE. 
          AND THAT IS THE, UH, RESIDENCE OF THE APPELLANT. 
          UH, AND THEN FURTHER ON, WE HAVE, UM, THE HANSEL FORD, UH, SALES AND SERVICE FACILITY AND THEN HIGHWAY 1 0 1. 
          UM, THEN WE HAVE THE, THE, UH, CURRENT CORONA ROAD WITH THE OVERPASS OVER 1 0 1 AND THEN INDUSTRIAL AVENUE AND AUTO CENTER DRIVE. 
          UM, COMPLETING IT ON THE, TO THE, TO THE SOUTH OF INDUSTRIAL DRIVE IS CITY OWNED LAND, AND THAT IS PART OF THE FLOOD MITIGATION AREA FOR THE, UH, PETALUMA RIVER. 
          NEXT SLIDE. 
          SO AGAIN, WHAT'S, UH, IN 2023, THE STORE QUEST SELF-STORAGE FACILITY WAS COMPLETED, UM, ON, UH, UH, A, THE, A LARGER PORTION OF THE FORMER PETALUMA VALLEY ATHLETIC CLUB SITE. 
          UH, IT HAS ACCESS HOURS FROM 9:00 AM TO 6:00 PM MONDAY THROUGH SATURDAY, AND 10:00 AM TO 5:00 PM SUNDAY, A SINGLE INGRESS EGRESS FROM AUTO CENTER DRIVE. 
          AND, UH, THE STORE QUEST FACILITY DIFFERS FROM THIS, UH, PHASE TWO PROJECT IN THAT THE STORE QUEST FACILITY DOES HAVE, UH, INDIVIDUAL STORAGE UNITS THAT ARE ACCESSIBLE FROM THE EXTERIOR OF THE BUILDING ON THE GROUND FLOOR, WHILE THE, UH, PHASE TWO PROJECT WOULD BE ALL ENCLOSED WITHIN THE BUILDING. 
          SO INTERIOR STORAGE UNITS ONLY. 
          AND SO THE, THE PROPOSAL FOR THE PHASE TWO PROJECT WAS TO DEMOLISH, UH, 1,375 SQUARE FOOT ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, CONVERT THE BUILDING TO SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 170 TO 187 UNIT INDOOR SELF STORAGE FACILITY, UH, ADD A COVERED LOADING AREA AND AN ELEVATOR SHAFT TO THE EXTERIOR OF THE BUILDING. 
          UH, IN THE IMAGE, YOU CAN SEE THE LOADING AREA ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING, AND THEN THAT ELEVATOR SHAFT IS, UM, FINISHED IN STONE ADJACENT TO IT. 
          THEN THE EXISTING, UH, 51 SPACE, UM, SURFACE PARKING LOT WOULD BE CONVERTED TO OUTDOOR RV STORAGE, UH, WITH SPACE FOR 13 REGULAR SIZE RVS AND FIVE SMALL RVS. 
          IT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE 13 STANDARD PARKING SPACES, AS WELL AS ONE A DA SPACE THAT IS REQUIRED BY, UM, CURRENT PARKING REGULATIONS. 
          IT WOULD ALSO INSTALL SECURITY FENCING, GATES, AND SOUND ATTENUATION FENCE ALONG THE NORTH BOUNDARY, AS WELL AS COMPLETING FACADE UPGRADES, LANDSCAPING, UH, RESURFACING AND RES STRIPING OF THE PARKING AREAS IN THE OUTDOOR, UH, STORAGE FACILITY AREA, AS WELL AS, UM, LIGHTING AND TRASH ENCLOSURE IMPROVEMENTS. 
          THIS IS THE, UH, SITE PLAN FOR THE PROJECT, UM, SHOWING THE AREA OF THE LOADING ZONE, SOME OF THE INTERIOR CONFIGURATION OF THE GROUND FLOOR. 
          YOU'LL SEE ON THE NORTH AND EAST SIDES OF THE PROJECT THAT THERE ARE EXTERIOR, UM, ACCESS POINTS. 
          THE PROJECT IS CONDITIONED TO LIMIT THAT TO, UH, EXIT ONLY SO THAT, UH, TENANTS OR USERS OF THE FACILITY WOULD NOT BE COMING AROUND THE BUILDING TO ACCESS THEIR STORAGE UNITS. 
          THEY WOULD ONLY ACCESS THROUGH THAT LOADING ZONE AREA IN THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. 
          THAT WAS DONE, UM, PRIMARILY IN RESPONSE TO THE APPELLANT'S CONCERNS ABOUT NOISE AND DISRUPTION THAT MIGHT 
          [00:10:01]
BE HAPPENING, UH, THROUGH THE COURSE OF, UM, THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE STORAGE FACILITY. 
          AND THEN WE SEE THE RECONFIGURATION OF THE PARKING AREA, UM, AS WELL. 
          I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT, UH, IF YOU LOOK ON THE, UH, ALONG THE OLD CORONA ROAD, UH, AND LARISSA, IF YOU WOULD HIGHLIGHT THIS. 
          YEAH. 
          ALTHOUGH I THINK YOU HAVE TO DO IT OVER THERE FOR THEM TO SEE IT. 
          SO WE DID TALK TODAY. 
          THERE IS A SECURITY FENCE THAT RUNS, UM, ACROSS THE PROPERTY BOUNDARY FROM BOUNDARY TO BOUNDARY ON WHAT WOULD BE THE EAST SIDE OF THE PROJECT SITE. 
          AND THAT DOES HAVE THE EFFECT OF COMPLETELY SECURING THAT UTILITY EASEMENT, UH, AND, AND CONCERNS ABOUT THAT SECURITY OF THAT UTILITY EASEMENT AREA WERE A PRIMARY CONCERN OF THE APPELLANT. 
          AND SO THIS IS A, A ZONE IN ON THE PRIMARY AREA OF ACTIVITY, THAT LOADING ZONE AREA. 
          YOU CAN SEE, UM, THE PARKING AND, UH, THE LOADING AREA RELATED TO USERS OF THE FACILITY, AS WELL AS HOW THAT LOADING ZONE IS REALLY, UM, OFFLOAD INTO THE BUILDING TO ACCESS THE ELEVATOR AND SO FORTH. 
          SO ALL OF THE ACTIVITY OF THE, UM, STORAGE FACILITY USE IS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING FURTHEST AWAY FROM THE, UH, RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT TO THE NORTH. 
          NEXT SLIDE. 
          SO THIS IS A REVISION, UH, SHOWS REVISIONS TO THE, UM, PROJECT AS IT WAS PROPOSED, UH, DURING THE REVISION PROCESS, WHICH RESPONDED TO THE, PRIMARILY TO THE APPELLANT'S CONCERNS. 
          UH, WE DID, UM, RE WE DID, UH, WORK WITH THE APPLICANT TO REVISE THE PROJECT TO INSTALL AN EIGHT FOOT TALL SOUND ATTENUATION AND PRIVACY FENCE ALONG THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROJECT. 
          THAT'S, UH, INDICATED IN RED IN THIS IMAGE. 
          IT'S, IT'S, UH, PLANTED IN FRONT WITH, UM, UH, CALIFORNIA WAX MYRTLES, AS WELL AS, UH, TOUM BERRY BUSHES AS A LOWER LEVEL PLANTING, SO FULLY LANDSCAPED ALONG THAT AS WELL. 
          THEN, UM, ALONG THE SIDES OF THE BUILDING, THEY'VE ADDED SIX, UH, ZELKOVA SERRATA, UM, GREEN VASE TREES, AS WELL AS TWO TO THE ENTRYWAY, UH, RETAINING THE EXISTING TREES ALONG THE OLD CORONA ROAD FRONTAGE, AS WELL AS AN EXISTING, UM, REDWOOD TREE IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING. 
          THEN THEY'VE ADDED, UM, I BELIEVE IT'S NINE KILOMETERS KOVAS, UH, THEY'VE ADDED THE CALER RED MAPLES ALONG THE, THE SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINE. 
          A, UM, A VEGETATIVE SCREENING FENCE ALONG THE SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINE AS WELL TO HELP SCREEN THE, UM, THE R THE PROPOSED, UH, OUTDOOR RV STORAGE USE. 
          AND THEN THE EXISTING, UM, MAGNOLIA TREES WOULD REMAIN. 
          PART OF THE REASON FOR THE INTENSIVE TREE PLANTINGS AROUND THE BUILDING IS BOTH TO ADDRESS, UH, NOISE CONCERNS OF THE RESIDENTIAL USE TO THE NORTH, BUT AS WELL AS, AS TO FULLY CONFIGURE THE PARKING AREA, THE FORMER PARKING AREA FOR RV OUTDOOR STORAGE. 
          SO THE APPLICANT, UM, YOU KNOW, EXPLAINED THAT TO HAVE TREES IN THIS OUTDOOR STORAGE AREA LIMITS THE ABILITY TO STORE RVS THERE, AND, AND STAFF UNDERSTOOD THAT, UH, THIS SECTION WAS EXPLAINED IN REVISIONS TO THE PROJECT AND THE STAFF REPORT. 
          HOWEVER, TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE STILL ACHIEVING TREE CANOPY FOR THE PURPOSES OF, UM, HABITAT, AS WELL AS CARBON SEQUESTRATION AND SO FORTH, UH, WE DID REQUIRE THE OTHER PLANTINGS TO BE AUGMENTED, UM, THROUGHOUT THE SITE. 
          NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE GRACE. 
          SO THE RETIRE REQUIRED ENTITLEMENTS ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR FOR MODIFICATIONS TO THE EXISTING DEVELOPMENT, UH, TO SUPPORT THE MINI STORAGE AND OUTDOOR STORAGE, USES THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT, WHICH WE'LL BE HEARING ABOUT NEXT TO MEND THE RANCHO ROYAL PCD TO ALLOW THE OUT OUTDOOR RV STORAGE AS A PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE. 
          AND THEN AOT LINE LINE ADJUSTMENT WHEN, UH, THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED TO MERGE, UM, THE, THE EXISTING STORE QUEST FACILITY WITH THE, UH, PHASE TWO PROJECT SO THAT THEY CAN BE OPERATED, UM, TOGETHER AS ONE PROJECT. 
          UM, THE PROJECT PLANS WERE, WERE FINALED IN OCTOBER OF 2025, AND THEN, UH, STAFF COMPLETED A PUBLIC NOTICING AND A 10 DAY REVIEW PERIOD. 
          ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR WAS APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL ON DECEMBER 12TH, AND THEN ON DECEMBER 22ND, UH, THE APPEAL WAS FILED OF THE ADMIN, THE DIRECTOR'S DECISION TO APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR. 
          SO THE, THE KEY APPEAL CONCERNS WERE NOISE IMPACTS, UM, BOTH RELATED TO CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITIES AS WELL AS THE ONGOING USES OF THE PROPERTY. 
          UH, VEHICLE STORAGE IMPACTS RELATED, UH, TO NOISE AND ACTIVITY ASSOCIATED WITH THE RV, OUTDOOR STORAGE PESTICIDE, AND POTENTIAL 
          [00:15:01]
FOR INCREASE IN STORMWATER RUNOFF. 
          UH, THIS PROPERTY DOES DRAIN TO THE NORTH, AND, UM, THERE IS SOME, SOME DITCH DRAINAGE ALONG THE NORTHERN PROPERTY LINE THAT, UH, IT, THE RESIDENTS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT AND, AND WANTED TO ENSURE THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE AN INCREASE IN STORMWATER, BUT THERE'S NO INCREASE IN IMPERVIOUS, UM, IMPERVIOUS SURFACE. 
          SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY, UH, CHANGE TO STORMWATER IMPACTS. 
          THEY REQUESTED, UH, SPECIFIC AND ENFORCEABLE LIMITS ON CONSTRUCTION HOURS AS WELL AS PUBLIC CONTACT INFORMATION FOR SITE MANAGEMENT. 
          AND THEN, UH, CONSTRUCTION PHASING AND TIMELINE. 
          SO, UM, GOING BACK FOR ONE MOMENT IS THE, UH, THE GROUNDS FOR APPEAL. 
          IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE APPEAL OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR DECISION IS, IS IN TO SOME EXTENT AN APPEAL OF, OF POTENTIAL IMPACTS RESULTING FROM THE USE OF THE SITE. 
          UH, SOME OF THOSE IMPACTS CAN BE MITIGATED THROUGH PHYSICAL MODIFICATIONS TO THE SITE, SUCH AS THE SOUND ATTENUATION, PRIVACY FENCE, THE ENHANCED PLANTINGS, AND SO FORTH. 
          UM, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL SHOW A LITTLE BIT LATER, UH, THE ACTUAL REDUCTION IN POTENTIAL IMPACTS BECAUSE WE GO TO LESS INTENSE USE. 
          NEXT SLIDE. 
          SO THEN, IN TERMS OF THE APPEAL REQUIREMENTS, THE ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR DECISION IS APPEALED TO PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          THAT BRINGS US, UH, HERE THIS EVENING. 
          UH, THE APPEAL WAS FILED WITHIN 14 DAYS OF THE DECISION, UM, AND THE REVIEW AUTHORITY MAY CONSIDER ANY ISSUES RELATED TO THE APPEALED MATTER, NOT ONLY THE SPECIFIC GROUNDS FOR APPEAL. 
          I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT NOTE ON, ON, UH, THE, UH, ICO SPECIFIC REGULATIONS. 
          THEN THE AUTHORITY THAT YOU HAVE THIS EVENING IS TO AFFIRM THE ORIGINAL DECISION OR UPHOLD THE DIRECTOR'S DECISION, OR YOU CAN REVERSE THE DECISION. 
          UH, YOU COULD DISPROVE THE PERMIT ENTIRELY, UM, OR YOU COULD ADDITIONALLY CONDITION YOUR, UM, DECISION TO UPHOLD THE APPEAL THIS EVENING. 
          SO YOU HAVE A LOT OF LATITUDE WITH REGARD TO, UM, WHAT YOU CAN DO. 
          NEXT SLIDE. 
          IN TERMS OF THE LAND USE FRAMEWORK OF THE RANCHO ROYAL PLANT, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT REGULATES, ALLOWABLE LAND USES ON SITE AND, UH, AS IS STANDARD WHERE PCD OR PUD DOESN'T REGULATE, WE REFER TO THE STANDARD ZONING CODE. 
          THE SITE IS WITHIN THE FLOODPLAIN COMBINING DISTRICT, AND THE PROJECT IS CONDITIONED TO REQUIRE A DEVELOPMENT PERMIT, UM, AS PART OF BUILDING PERMIT APPLICATION. 
          THE PROJECT MODIFICATIONS WERE REVIEWED UNDER, UH, THE, THE SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW STANDARDS AND FINDINGS WERE MADE, AS WELL AS, UH, CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, UM, ARE IN PLACE RELATED, UH, TO COMPLIANCE WITH PERFORMANCE AND OPERATIONAL STANDARDS. 
          AND THEN, AS I MENTIONED, THE PCD AMENDMENT IS A SEPARATE PROCESS THAT WE'LL BE REVIEWING NEXT, NEXT SLIDE. 
          SO THE MINI SELF STORAGE USE THE CONVERSION OF THE EXISTING TWO STORY BUILDING IS A PERMITTED PRINCIPLE USE UNDER THE PCD ZONING. 
          UH, AND SO AS, AS IT RELATES TO POTENTIAL IMPACTS RESULTING FROM THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE SELF STORAGE USE, BECAUSE IT IS PERMITTED USE, IT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH PERFORMANCE AND OPERATIONAL STANDARDS. 
          INFOR AND ENFORCEMENT OF THESE STANDARDS IS THROUGH OUR, UH, CODE ENFORCEMENT PROCESS, REQUEST FOR A COMPLAINT, AND THEN NOTICE OF VIOLATION IF IT'S FOUND, UH, TO BE IN VIOLATION OF STANDARDS. 
          AND THEN THE OUTDOOR STORAGE CURRENTLY IS NOT ALLOWED UNDER THE PCD. 
          WE DO RECOMMEND, UH, THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL ON ADOPTION OF THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO ESTABLISH OUTDOOR RV STORAGE AS A PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE. 
          AND, UH, WE HAVE, UM, OBJECTIVE STANDARDS FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT OUTDOOR RV STORAGE USE. 
          NEXT. 
          SO IN LOOKING AT THE CHANGE OF THE USE FROM THE ATHLETIC CLUB TO THE SELF STORAGE AND RV USES, INTENSITY OF USE DECREASES THE OPERATIONAL PATTERN DECREASES QUITE A BIT. 
          SO WE SEE, UH, OCCASIONAL VISITS AS OPPOSED TO CONTINUOUS USE TRAFFIC AND PARKING BECOMES MORE INTERMITTENT AS IT'S SPREAD OUT ACROSS THE DAY WITH THE LESS INTENSITY INTENSITY OF USE. 
          AND THEN THE RV STORAGE WOULD GENERATE INFREQUENT TRIPS ASSOCIATED WITH VEHICLE RETRIEVAL OR STORAGE. 
          THE NOISE CHARACTERISTICS WOULD BE LIMITED PRIMARILY TO THE VEHICLES, UH, YOU KNOW, STARTING AND STOPPING OF VEHICLES AND LOADING AND UNLOADING THAT TAKES PLACE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING FOR FURTHEST AWAY FROM THE, UH, THE ESTABLISHED RESIDENTIAL USE. 
          AND THEN, UH, IN TERMS OF SITE FUNCTION AND CHARACTER, IT'S A PASSIVE STORAGE ORIENTED COMMERCIAL USE. 
          UM, BUT WE ALSO NOTE THAT THERE'S BEEN NO MODIFICATIONS TO, UH, SITE CIRCULATION OR TO, UH, ACCESS TO THE BUILDING. 
          NEXT SLIDE. 
          AND SO, UM, WITH REGARD, BECAUSE IT IS MODIFICATIONS, 
          [00:20:01]
UH, THE DIRECTOR IN, IN APPROVING ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR WAS ABLE TO FIND THAT, UH, MODIFICATIONS TO THE BUILDING ARE CONSISTENT WITH ITS COMMERCIAL USE. 
          UH, THERE ARE SOME ENHANCEMENTS TO THE BUILDING, UM, REMOVAL OF THE MANSER FACADE AND GOING WITH A MORE STREAMLINED FACADE ON THE UPPER LEVEL OF THE BUILDING, FOR INSTANCE, UM, THE ADDITION OF THE ELEVATOR IS A MINOR MODIFICATION TO THE EXTERIOR OF THE BUILDING, AND THEN OF COURSE, THE LANDSCAPING, UH, WAS IMPROVED GREATLY, AS WELL AS, UH, SECURITY WITH FENCING ON, UM, THE EAST SIDE ADJACENT TO OLD CORONA ROAD. 
          AND THEN ON THE NORTH SIDE WHERE THE SOUND ATTENUATION AND PRIVACY FENCE IS INSTALLED. 
          AND THEN THE PARKING AREA UPGRADES, UM, WITH LANDSCAPING, ADDITIONAL LIGHTING BUFFERING OF THE PROPOSED USE, AND THEN MAINTAINING THE FUNCTIONALITY WHILE ENSURING SECURITY. 
          SO REVISIONS TO THE PROJECT IN RESPONSE TO BOTH THE, THE APPELLANT'S CONCERNS, BUT ALSO TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, RESPOND TO SOME OF THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST. 
          UM, SOME OF THE, THE KEY PHYSICAL MODIFICATIONS, AS I'VE DESCRIBED, ARE SOUND ATTENUATION, PRIVACY FENCE. 
          THAT'S AN EIGHT FOOT TALL FENCE. 
          IT HAS A THREE QUARTER INCH, UM, SOLID PLYWOOD CORE, AND ON EITHER SIDE OF IT THEN IS, UM, COVERED IN ONE BY, UM, UH, I THINK IT'S ONE BY SIX, UM, REDWOOD BOARDS, AS WELL AS SOME LATTICE ON THE TOP. 
          SO IT IS A VERY SOLID FENCE. 
          WE HAVE USED THE SOUND ATTENUATION FENCE IN A VARIETY OF PROJECTS MOST RECENTLY IN THE RIVERBEND PROJECT ADJACENT TO THE, UH, CREAMERY OVER ON MADISON STREET. 
          IT WAS USED TO, UM, HELP MITIGATE SOME OF THE IMPACTS OF THAT EXISTING WIDE INDUSTRIAL USE ON THAT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. 
          THEN WE ALSO HAVE A SECURITY GATE. 
          WE MODIFY CONDITION OF APPROVAL 15 TO REQUIRE THAT, UM, ACCESS UTILITY EASEMENT ACCESS ON AUTO CENTER DRIVE, UH, BE LIMITED THROUGH A SECURITY GATE. 
          AND THEN, UH, THERE WERE SOME MODIFICATIONS TO THE GATE DESIGN MATERIALS AND LOCATION, AS WELL AS ENSURING THAT THE EAST PROPERTY LINE FENCE EXTENDS FROM PROPERTY LINE TO PROPERTY LINE ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH SIDES OF THE PROJECT. 
          UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. 
          UH, THE, IN TERMS OF NOISE CONCERNS, THE SELF STORAGE USE IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT, AND, UH, SO THE SPAR REVIEW FOCUSED ON SITE DESIGN, NOT ON OPERATIONAL REGULATIONS. 
          UM, AND, AND WE FEEL THAT WITH THE PLANTINGS AND WITH THE WOOD PRIVACY FENCE, WE'VE MAXIMIZED OPPORTUNITIES TO MITIGATE ANY POTENTIAL, UM, IMPACTS RESULTING FROM THE OPERATIONALIZATION OF THE LAND. 
          USES, UH, THE RV OUT OUTDOOR RV STORAGE OPERATIONS. 
          OUR, UM, PROPOSED TO HAVE STANDARD OR OBJECTIVE STANDARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THEM, INCLUDING LIMITED ACCESS HOURS, SETBACKS, AND SCREENING NEAR RESIDENTIAL USES, WHICH HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED. 
          UH, PROHIBITION OF HABITATION OF, UM, STORED RVS, UH, PROHIBITION ON ENGAGING IN VEHICLE REPAIR IN THE STORAGE AREA, IDLING ENGINES, RUNNING OF GENERATORS, WASTEWATER DUMPING, ET CETERA. 
          AND THEN THE NOISE ORDINANCE, UH, WOULD ALSO, UH, PROVIDE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR THE OUTDOOR RV STORAGE, UH, STORM WATER AND PESTICIDES. 
          AS I MENTIONED, THE PROJECT DOES NOT PROPOSE AN INCREASE IN IMPERVIOUS SURFACE, SO NO CHANGE TO EXISTING STORM WATER ACTIVITY. 
          AND, UH, THE PROJECT HAS BEEN CONDITIONED TO, UH, NOT ALLOW THE USE OF PESTICIDES THROUGH AN INTEGRATED PEST MANAGEMENT PLAN. 
          UH, THE, THE APPELLANT DID CITE CONCERN ABOUT CONSTRUCTION HOURS. 
          UH, WE DID REVIEW THAT, UM, AND DETERMINED THAT THE CONSTRUCTION HOURS ARE CITYWIDE STANDARDS. 
          WE APPLY THOSE TO ALL PROJECTS. 
          EVEN MANY OF OUR PROJECTS THAT COME BEFORE YOU SUBJECT TO DISCRETIONARY REVIEW, UH, STILL IMPLEMENT THE STANDARD CONSTRUCTION HOURS, UH, PROVIDED FOR BY THE CODE. 
          UM, WE DO HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS, HOWEVER, THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO MEET WITH CITY PLANNING AND BUILDING STAFF TO DEVELOP A CONSTRUCTION PHASING AND MANAGEMENT PLAN, UH, WITH A PARTICULAR FOCUS ON LIMITING NOISE PRODUCING ACTIVITY UNTIL LATER IN THE MORNING AND SO FORTH. 
          SO WE FEEL THAT BY WORKING DIRECTLY WITH THE APPLICANT AND THE CONSTRUCTION TEAMS THAT WE'RE ABLE TO MITIGATE THOSE CONCERNS, UH, THROUGH THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. 
          UH, THE PROJECT IS REQUIRED, UM, TO POST, UH, CONSTRUCTION CONTACTS DURING CONSTRUCTION PERIOD, AS WELL AS TO POST, UM, SITE MANAGEMENT CONTACT INFORMATION AT ALL TIMES. 
          UH, EVEN WHEN THE SELF STORAGE FACILITY AND THE OUTDOOR RV STORAGE LAND USES ARE IMPLEMENTED. 
          [00:25:01]
UH, HERE WE SEE CONSTRUCTION PHASING AND TIMELINE IN REFERENCE TO THE PHASING AND MANAGEMENT PLAN. 
          UM, IN CONCLUSION, UH, STAFF WORKING WITH THE APPLICANT, UH, FEEL THAT ALL OF THE REVISIONS TO THE PROJECT FULLY RESPOND TO THE APPELLANT'S CONCERNS, UH, CONSISTENT WITH OUR TREATMENT OF OTHER PROJECTS, AS WELL AS OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROJECT AND ABILITY TO MAINTAIN AWARENESS AND FULLY IMPLEMENT THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. 
          NEXT SLIDE. 
          IN TERMS OF ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW, THE ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR FOUND THAT THE PROJECT WAS CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT FROM FURTHER REVIEW UNDER QA, UH, UNDER, UM, UH, CATEGORICAL EXEMPTION, ONE FOR EXISTING FACILITIES, AND THREE FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION OR CONVERSION OF SMALL STRUCTURES. 
          SO NO CHANGE IN THE, UH, IN THOSE CATEGORICAL EXEMPTIONS AS A RESULT OF THE APPEAL. 
          EXCELLENT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND SO, WITH THAT, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVE A RESOLUTION UPHOLDING THE DIRECTOR'S DECISION TO APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR, SUBJECT TO THE REVISED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, WHICH WERE PROVIDED TO YOU IN ATTACHMENT ONE EXHIBIT A, UM, AND DENY THE APPEAL SUBMITTED BY THE APPELLANT ON DECEMBER 22ND, 2025. 
          THANK YOU, CHAIR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, AND JUST TO GIVE EVERYONE A LAY OF THE LAND HERE OF HOW WE'RE GONNA PROCEED, WE WILL BE HEARING FROM THE APPELLANT TO PRESENT AND THEN THE APPLICANT TO PRESENT, THEN WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT, OR EXCUSE ME, APPELLANT APPLICANT, AND THEN COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS AS WE OFTEN TRY TO KEEP THEM CONCISE, ACTUAL QUESTIONS, UM, TO STAFF, APPELLANT OR APPLICANT. 
          THEN WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT, AND THEN IT WILL BE, UM, THERE WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE APPELLANT TO PROVIDE REBUTTAL, IF ANY, AS WELL AS THE APPLICANT. 
          AND THEN WE'LL COME TO THE COMMISSION FOR, UM, CONSIDERATION AND COMMENTS AND, UH, VOTE. 
          SO JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS WHERE WE'RE HEADED ON THIS ONE. 
          SO WITH THAT, UM, LET'S INVITE THE APPELLANT TO PRESENT IF THEY WISH. 
          LAWYER WHO REPRESENTS THE APPELLANT IN THIS CASE. 
          I'D LIKE TO BEGIN BY, UM, UH, CAN YOU HEAR ME? OKAY. 
          I'D LIKE TO BEGIN BY EXTENDING MY THANKS TO MR. TRIPLE AND HIS STAFF AND, AND HOW THEY HAVE HANDLED THIS APPEAL AND THEIR, THEIR WILLINGNESS TO MEET WITH, UH, MS. O'BRIEN AND AS WELL AS MYSELF AT THE SITE, TO IDENTIFY THESE ISSUES CLEARLY, AND TO, TO COME TO A, A, A, A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO MITIGATE THIS CHANGE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT AFFECTS PRIMARILY MY CLIENT, UH, UH, AND HER FAMILY, UH, NEXT DOOR AT 95 OLD CORONA ROAD. 
          SO AGAIN, HE'S BEEN, UH, QUITE, UH, QUITE ACCOMMODATING AND VERY HELPFUL IN THAT, AND WE DO APPRECIATE THAT. 
          I BELIEVE MR. TRIPLE DID, UH, SPEAK TO ONE OF THE REMAINING CONCERNS, UH, THAT WE HAD. 
          UH, AND THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE, THE UTILITY EASEMENT THAT RUNS ALONG IN BETWEEN THESE TWO PROPERTIES THERE, WHICH NEEDS BE BY VIRTUE OF BEING A UTILITY EASEMENT, NEEDS TO REMAIN UNENCUMBERED. 
          BUT THERE ARE STILL SECURITY AND FENCE ISSUES, THE FENCE TO THE NORTH ON THE, UM, THE AUTO PARKWAY DRIVE. 
          THERE SEEMS TO BE, OUR CONCERN SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED THERE SO THAT THE, THE UTILITY EASEMENT IS CLOSED OFF AT THAT END. 
          AND I BELIEVE, I UNDERSTAND IF I UNDERSTOOD MR. TRIPLE TO, TO EXPLAIN THE, THE FRONT BOUNDARY FENCE ON THE, ON THE OLD CORONA ROAD PROPERTY WILL BE EXTENDED ALSO, SO THAT WE HAVE AN, AN ENCLOSED AREA, UH, FOR THE UTILITY EASEMENT THAT WILL NOT BE ACCESSIBLE TO THE VARIOUS PEOPLE, GIVEN ITS PROXIMITY TO THE FREEWAY AND THE, THE CUL-DE-SAC THERE AT THE END OF CORONA ROAD. 
          THAT, THAT, THAT THE SECURITY CONCERNS OF MY CLIENT WOULD BE ADDRESSED BY THAT. 
          UM, IT'S, IT'S NOT REF SPECIFICALLY SPECIFIED IN THE, UH, THE, UH, PROPOSED, UH, STAFF REPORT AT AREA AREA, UH, PARAGRAPH, UH, 15. 
          BUT I BELIEVE THAT, UM, THAT HE HAS, HE HAS ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE AND THAT WE JUST, WE WOULD LIKE THE RECORD TO REFLECT THAT WE'VE ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE AND THAT IT BE CLARIFIED SO THAT THERE NOT BE AN OPEN AREA FOR PEOPLE TO INTERVENE. 
          THE REMAINING ISSUE IS THE, UH, UH, AND I, AND I'LL ADVISE YOU IN ADVANCE THAT, UM, MS. O'BRIEN, I'M GONNA RESERVE A LITTLE BIT OF MY TIME 'CAUSE MS. O'BRIEN WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE PANEL AS WELL. 
          SHE'S BROUGHT SOME REMARKS AS WELL. 
          BUT, UM, THIS IS AN ONGOING PROCESS WITH THEM AND I, THEY'VE HAD SOME DIFFICULTIES WITH THE PRIOR, UH, STAGE OF THE PRO PROCESS AND PRIOR, UH, CONSTRUCTION CREWS THAT WERE DOING WORK THERE. 
          ONE OF THEIR CONCERNS IS THE, UM, THE HOURS, UH, RIGHT NOW IT'S APPROVED 7:00 AM TO 10:00 PM UM, IT'S, UH, ALTHOUGH THAT IS AN ESTABLISHED PRECEDENT ACROSS THE CITY, IT'S CERTAINLY WITHIN YOUR POWER TO LIMIT THAT. 
          I DON'T SEE 
          [00:30:01]
ANY REASON WHY CONSTRUCTION ON THIS PROJECT NEEDS TO GO UNTIL 10 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT NEXT TO A RESIDENTIAL AREA, AND WE'D REQUEST THAT THAT BE REVISED, UH, TO A LITTLE SLIGHTLY MORE REASONABLE HOUR, UH, THAN 10:00 PM. 
          UM, THERE'S ALSO THE QUESTION OF THE HOURS THAT FOR SATURDAY, SUNDAY AND FEDERAL HOLIDAYS, THE, THE APPELLANT REQUESTS ALSO, THAT, THAT, AT LEAST FOR THE MORNING HOURS, THAT THOSE BE, UH, BE, UH, LIMITED SO THAT WE'RE NOT STARTING AT NINE, UH, EARLY, UH, UH, EARLIER THAN, UH, 10:00 AM IF POSSIBLE, ON THE WEEKENDS AS WELL. 
          UM, SO ALL IN ALL, AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO EXTEND MY THANKS TO THE WASATCH PEOPLE. 
          THEY'VE BEEN COOPERATIVE ON THIS, AND THEY, WE'VE HAD A, A COURT, A A, AN AGREEABLE RELATIONSHIP TO TRY TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES. 
          SO WE'RE PRESENTING IT NOW TO YOU FOR THE FINAL STRETCH. 
          WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE DE O'BRIEN, WHO WOULD LIKE TO TAKE JUST A FEW MOMENTS TO ADDRESS YOU DIRECTLY AS THE RESIDENT WHO'S LIVED THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT SO FAR, AND THE, THE PREVIOUS, UH, UH, ACTIVITIES BEFORE WE'VE GOTTEN TO COME TO THIS POINT. 
          SO WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO MS. O'BRIEN. 
          HI. 
          HI EVERYBODY. 
          I MOSTLY JUST WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE HUMAN BEINGS THAT LIVE NEXT TO ALL THIS CONSTRUCTION, AND WE HAVE A EXTENSIVE HISTORY. 
          AND I'M JUST GONNA READ OFF A LITTLE BIT. 
          UM, I CURRENTLY LIVE NEXT TO THE BUILDING AT 85 OLD CORONA ROAD. 
          THERE ARE THREE RENTAL UNITS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE THE THIRTIES. 
          THE BUSINESSES NEXT DOOR HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE THE EIGHTIES. 
          SO WE WERE THERE PRIOR. 
          I'M ADDRESSING YOU ALL TODAY TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE ACTUAL GAINFULLY EMPLOYED HUMAN BEINGS THAT LIVE NEXT DOOR TO THIS PROJECT. 
          WE ARE TRYING TO THRIVE AND HAVE A PEACEFUL LIFE. 
          WE HAS, WE HAVE ALSO LIVED NEXT DOOR TO THE PREVIOUS TWO AND A HALF YEAR LONG PROJECT THAT WASATCH PROPERTY, THE FIRST STORAGE, UM, AND IT WAS HORRENDOUS DUE THE DUE TO THE PROJECT BEING AND THE HORRENDOUS TREATMENT BY WASATCH AND THEIR PRO PROJECT MANAGER. 
          HERE WE ARE. 
          I KNEW I HAD TO OBTAIN A ATTORNEY REPRESENTATION, OR WE WOULD'VE BEEN BOWLED OVER AGAIN. 
          UM, SINCE THE COMPLETION OF THE LAST PROJECT, WASATCH PROPERTY IN THE BUILDING AT 85 WAS LEFT UNSECURED AND ABANDONED FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS, UM, LEAVING THE PAR PARTIAL FENCE OPEN AFTER PROMISING THEY WERE GONNA REPLACE IT. 
          MANY, MANY NEFARIOUS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRESPASSING, TRIED. 
          THEY WERE TRIED TO LIVE ON THE PROPERTY NEXT DOOR, THERE WAS GRAFFITI. 
          THEY WANDER ONTO OUR PROPERTY AND THERE'S, THERE IS A GAPING HOLE THERE. 
          IT HAS BEEN UP TO ME TO CONSTANTLY WATCH AND BE PROTECTED AND JUST PROTECT MYSELF. 
          IT HAS BEEN AWFUL. 
          I AM GONNA SAY THAT THE STREET ITSELF HAS THIS HISTORICAL PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE TRIED FOR YEARS TO GET THE CITY TO ADDRESS, AND THEY HAVE HELPED US TO THE, TO SOME EXTENT. 
          I, I DO APPRECIATE THE HELP WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN. 
          UM, THANK GOODNESS FOR MY, THE, OUR CAMERAS AND MY DOG WHO IS DUE DILIGENCE. 
          IF IT WEREN'T FOR HIM, I MAY NOT BE ALIVE HERE. 
          THERE IS AN EXTENSIVE LIST OF CRIMINAL REPORTING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON THERE. 
          SO IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THIS FENCE BE SECURE SO THAT IT, I CAN BE SAFE. 
          UM, UH, WE ALSO WOULD APPRECIATE SOME KIND OF HELP WITH THE ROAD CONDITIONS. 
          PEOPLE THINK THAT THERE'S, IT'S NOT BEING MAINTAINED AND PEOPLE GO BACK THERE. 
          THERE'S NO LIGHTING BACK THERE. 
          UM, WHAT HAPPENS HAS, AND THIS GOES TO THE JUST IN FRONT AND THEN THERE'S A LITTLE CUL-DE-SAC. 
          THERE'S BEEN TRESPASSING, CAMPING, DUMPING DRUG DRUG DEALS, SEXUAL ASSAULT, RECKLESS DRIVING, FOUR BY FOURS IN THE MUD THAT GO BACK AND CON FORTH, CONSTANTLY BREAK-INS AND MANY OTHER CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES. 
          SO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AND I JUST WANT THAT ADDRESSED AND, AND MADE NOTICE. 
          WE ARE NOT AGAINST THE PROJECT ITSELF. 
          IT IS THAT THE PROJECT ITSELF IS NOT A PROBLEM. 
          I JUST WANT ASK THAT YOU WORK WITH US SO THAT WE CAN HAVE PEACE LIVING NEXT DOOR. 
          CONSTRUCTION NOISES IS HORRENDOUS AND I REALLY ASK THAT YOU LIMIT IT SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY WEEKEND CONSTRUCTION AND HOLIDAYS. 
          I REALLY WOULD APPRECIATE THAT. 
          WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO REST FROM ALL THE NOISE THAT GOES ON. 
          BOTH, BOTH OF THE 10 CURRENT TENANTS DO WORK FROM HOME. 
          SO THAT IS AN ISSUE. 
          UM, I ALSO AM QUESTIONING THE, THE, THE, THE BUSINESS HOURS THEMSELVES. 
          THE NEXT DOOR PROJECT STARTS AT NINE. 
          NOT SURE WHY THE ONE NEXT DOOR NEEDS TO START AT 6:00 AM THAT IS RIDICULOUS HOURS. 
          THAT'LL WAKE ME UP. 
          I'LL HEAR IT, I'LL HEAR IT ALL. 
          EVEN WITH THE FENCE, I'M GONNA HEAR IT. 
          THERE'S A, THERE'S LIKE A NOISE, SO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AND I JUST ASK THAT YOU CONSIDER THAT. 
          UM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. 
          UH, IT'S JUST REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE GET SOME TYPE OF PIECE AT SOME POINT DURING THE WEEK, SO I APPRECIATE IT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          AND NOW I'LL INVITE THE 
          [00:35:01]
APPLICANT TO PRESENT IF THEY LIKE. 
          GOOD EVENING, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. 
          WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, UH, GIVING US THIS, THIS MOMENT TONIGHT. 
          I'M JUSTIN BARNES. 
          I REPRESENT WASATCH STORAGE PARTNERS, THE OWNER AND APPLICANT OF THE PRO. 
          THE PROJECT THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TONIGHT, UM, JUST, UH, ANDREW DID A GREAT JOB IN, IN PRESENTING THE PROJECT, WHAT, WHAT OUR INTENTIONS ARE, THE PROCESSES THAT WE'VE WORKED THROUGH TO, TO APPEAL TO THE APPELLANT TO RESOLVE THE CONCERNS. 
          WE'VE SPENT THE BETTER PART OF MORE THAN A YEAR ACTUALLY, UH, ADDRESSING A LOT OF THESE CONCERNS. 
          WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE IN AS, AS GOOD OF A SPOT AS WE CAN. 
          WE'VE MADE IT MULTIPLE CONCESSIONS AND GONE WELL ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT THE CITY CODE REQUIRES OF THIS PROJECT. 
          UM, WE APPRECIATE THE, THE STAFF'S HELP IN IN COORDINATING THESE ITEMS AS WELL. 
          WE ARE COMMITTED TO THE, THE COMMUNITY. 
          WE'VE BEEN A BETTER PART OF, BEEN A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY FOR A BETTER PART OF, I GUESS IT'S BEEN ABOUT FOUR YEARS NOW. 
          UM, PERHAPS YOU ALL HAVE, HAVE SEEN THE EXISTING PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE. 
          THE, THE STORE QUEST PROPERTY. 
          WE STRIVE TO MAINTAIN A GOOD PROPERTY, A SAFE PROPERTY, UH, PROFESSIONALLY MANAGED. 
          AND OUR INTENTION IS WITH THIS EXPANSION TO ENCUMBER THAT PIECE INTO IT TO WHERE WE CAN OPERATE THAT AT THAT SAME LEVEL. 
          WE'RE KIND OF STUCK IN BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE WHERE WE DON'T HAVE A HABITABLE BUILDING. 
          WE AREN'T ABLE TO GET PERMITS TO, TO GO BEYOND WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW. 
          WE'VE DONE OUR BEST TO BOARD UP THE BUILDING TO, TO DISCOURAGE, UM, NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY FROM ENGAGING ON THE PROPERTY. 
          AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET THROUGH THIS PROCESS TO WHERE WE CAN MAKE THAT A VIABLE GOOD PART OF THE COMMUNITY. 
          UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE THAT I REALLY NEED TO ADDRESS AT THIS POINT, BUT, UH, WE, WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION THAT'S BEEN SHARED WITH THE, THE STAFF THROUGH ANDREW AND HIS TEAM. 
          AND WE'RE OPEN TO ANY QUESTIONS THAT WE CAN HELP RESOLVE OR ADDRESS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALRIGHT, ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? I'LL START WITH YOU. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER BARNICLE? YEAH, THIS IS FOR THE APPLICANT. 
          UM, UH, SO CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE START TIME AT SIX 6:00 AM OPERATIONS? I I THE START TIME FOR THE OPERATIONS? ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE ONGOING STORE OPERATIONS OR THE CONSTRUCTION? I GUESS IF YOU WANNA CLARIFY, UH, STORE, STORE OPERATIONS. 
          SO THE STORE OPERATIONS START AT 9:00 AM OKAY. 
          THEY, UH, I'M NOT SURE WHERE THE 6:00 AM PART COMES FROM AS FAR AS CONSTRUCTION. 
          WERE, WE'RE FINE WITH JUST WHAT THE CITY CODE REQUIRES OF THAT. 
          THE 7:00 AM STARTS AND WE WILL BE MINDFUL, WE WANNA WORK WITH THE CITY STAFF AND THE NEIGHBORS TO SEE IF WE CAN MITIGATE THOSE LOUD ACTIVITIES. 
          I THINK THAT'S THE INTENTION OF THE CONDITION THAT WE'RE PUTTING ON THE, ON THE APPROVAL WITH, WITH WORKING AND SETTING UP A PLAN TO SEE IF WE CAN GET SOME OF THOSE LOUDER ACTIVITIES. 
          YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY THAT, I DUNNO OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. 
          MAYBE IT'S A, A CONCRETE POUR EARLY IN THE MORNING. 
          MAYBE THAT'S NOT THE BEST ACTIVITY FOR 7:00 AM WE'LL WORK WITH THE APPLICANT AND THE CITY TO SEE WHAT WE CAN MITIGATE IN THAT REGARD. 
          BUT AS FAR AS THE ONGOING OPERATIONS OF THE PROPERTY, THEY, THEY WILL BE THE SAME AS THE EXISTING PROPERTY. 
          OKAY. 
          WHICH I BELIEVE IS AT 9:00 AM TO 6:00 PM . 
          OKAY. 
          APPRECIATE THAT. 
          AND THEN, UM, I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT I NOTED IN THE, IN THE CONCERN WAS AROUND THE END TIME FOR CONSTRUCTION, DO YOU PLAN A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION TO GO TILL 10:00 PM? IS THAT, LIKE, IS THAT GONNA HARM YOUR PROJECT THAT MUCH OR CAN WE YEAH. 
          END IT AT EIGHT OR SOMETHING? I GUESS THE REQUEST THAT WE WOULD HAVE IS THAT WE STAY CONSISTENT WITH THE CITY CODE. 
          I I, THE ONLY HESITATION THAT I HAVE IS IF THERE IS, UM, SOME DELIVERY PERHAPS THAT HAPPENS AFTER HOURS. 
          A LOT OF TIMES THOSE DELIVERIES CAN COME, UH, FROM OUT OF STATE AND IT'S, IT'S HARD TO COORDINATE SOME OF THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. 
          SO THERE'S A, A HESITATION THAT I HAVE IN, IN SAYING THAT. 
          BUT IF THAT'S THE, THE THING THAT MAKES EVERYBODY HAPPY, WE COULD BE OPEN TO THAT. 
          I JUST, UH, I, I PERSONALLY DON'T SEE THE, THE NEED TO GO BEYOND WHAT THE CITY CODE IS ALREADY REQUIRING OF EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE CITY. 
          UM, I THINK WE'VE GONE WELL ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT WE, WHAT IS, IS REASONABLE WITH THE FENCE. 
          WE'VE COMMITTED TO PUT THE FENCE UP ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS OF THE PROJECT AND TO TRY TO MITIGATE THAT ACTIVITY. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THERE'S SOMETHING REASONABLE OR IF, IF WE DISCUSS, YOU KNOW, AFTER, AFTER A CERTAIN TIME, WE CAN RUN THOSE DELIVERIES PAST HER AND, AND JUST SAY, HEY, WE'VE GOT SOMETHING HAPPENING AT SEVEN EIGHT 7:00 PM BUT THE THE REALITY IS, IS 5:00 PM IS GOING TO BE THE MOST TYPICAL. 
          I DON'T REALLY FORESEE ANYTHING HAPPENING AFTER 
          [00:40:01]
THAT. 
          UM, I JUST DON'T WANT TO BACK OURSELVES INTO A CORNER WHERE WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, PLAN FOR AN UNFORESEEN THAT MAY HAPPEN, BUT IT WOULD NOT BE THE NORM. 
          UNDERSTOOD. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, AND THEN, UH, THE OTHER CONCERNS WERE WEEKENDS AND, AND FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED HOLIDAYS. 
          UM, THERE'S NOT THAT MANY FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED HOLIDAYS. 
          IS THAT SOMETHING YOU CAN CONCEDE? I I, YEAH. 
          I THINK THAT WOULD BE KIND OF THAT SAME ANSWER IS WE'RE TRYING TO PROJECT RIGHT HERE WHAT STAFF OR WHAT SUBCONTRACTORS WOULD BE ON SITE. 
          IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT ON THAT ASPECT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, IF THE TYPICAL FEDERAL HOLIDAYS, THE, THE BIG ONES, YOU KNOW, THE, THE THANKSGIVINGS, CHRISTMASES, THINGS LIKE THAT, OBVIOUSLY WE WON'T HAVE PEOPLE WORKING THERE, BUT IF IT'S A MEMORIAL DAY, IT, IT'S KIND OF HARD TO DICTATE, UH, OUR, OUR CONTRACTORS SUBCONTRACTORS AND, AND WHO WILL BE ON SITE. 
          UM, I, I GUESS WE WOULD STILL REQUEST THAT WE STAY CONSISTENT WITH THE CITY CODE ON THAT AND, AND WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO, IF ON THOSE FEDERAL HOLIDAYS, RUN IT PAST THE, THE NEIGHBOR ON THAT, RUN IT PAST, UH, MS. O'BRIEN AND, AND SEE WHAT THEIR THOUGHTS ARE. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THOSE ARE ALL MY QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, CHAIR MOSES. 
          UM, I WANNA RETURN TO THE, THE OPERATING HOURS OF THE STORAGE FACILITY. 
          UM, THE, THE STAFF REPORT WE HAVE SAYS MONDAY THROUGH SATURDAY IT'S NINE TO SIX AND SUNDAY 10 TO FIVE FOR THE CURRENT FACILITY. 
          IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          IS THAT GONNA BE THE HOURS FOR THE NEW FACILITY? YES. 
          SO, SO WHAT IT IS, IS THIS WOULD JUST BE AN EXTENSION MM-HMM . 
          CALL IT AN ACCESSORY BUILDING TO THAT EXISTING USE. 
          THE OFFICE, THE STAFF WOULD STILL BE HOUSED OUT OF THAT ORIGINAL BUILDING. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, SAME COMPANY, SAME OPERATING STAFF. 
          SO YES. 
          OKAY. 
          WHAT'S, WHAT'S CONFUSING TO ME IS THAT IT APPEARS THAT THE, UH, RV STORAGE COMPONENT OF THE NEW PROJECT WILL HAVE HOURS OF 6:00 AM TO 10:00 PM IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY. 
          UH, I THINK WHAT THAT CLARIFICATION PERHAPS IS, IS THE STAFF WILL BE IN OPERATING BUSINESS HOURS, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE GATE ACCESS HOURS IS WHAT I BELIEVE THE, THAT CLARIFICATION WOULD BE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO A, SOMEONE WHO'S STORING THEIR RV WILL HAVE ACCESS TO COME ON SITE BETWEEN SIX AND 10:00 PM THAT IS THE INTENTION, I BELIEVE, ISN'T THAT THAT'S THE WAY THE CONDITION IS WRITTEN. 
          I, I THINK THAT THE, I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT. 
          THE 6:00 AM TO 10:00 PM IS THE ACCESS HOURS FOR PEOPLE FOR YOUR CLIENTS, RIGHT? YES. 
          OR PEOPLE, CUSTOMERS, BUT NOT THE OPERATIONAL, BUT NOT THE, NOT WHEN STAFF WOULD BE THERE. 
          SO THE, THE WEEKDAY AND WEEKEND HOURS THAT ARE MORE LIKE, LIKE WORK HOURS ARE THE TIMES THAT STAFF ARE, ARE ON THE ONSITE AND AVAILABLE TO THE, UM, THE CUSTOMERS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THERE WILL BE A PERIOD IN THE MORNING WHEN THERE'S NO STAFF ON SITE, BUT CUSTOMERS CAN COME ON SITE AND THAT'S PERIOD THE EVENING. 
          THAT'S CORRECT. 
          YES. 
          AND THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH, UM, PRETTY MUCH EVERY SELF STORAGE PROPERTY AND RV, UM, FACILITY THAT, THAT EXISTS IS THERE'S HOURS THAT ARE CUSTOMER HOURS, ACCESS HOURS OUTSIDE OF THE OPERATION HOURS. 
          OKAY. 
          YES. 
          THAT, THAT'S A GOOD CLARIFICATION. 
          CAN I JUST CLARIFY, UH, JUST TO BE SURE WE'RE ALL UNDERSTANDING, THAT'S ACCESS WITHOUT STAFF FOR THE INTERIOR UNITS AS WELL? THAT'S CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT'S CORRECT. 
          I THOUGHT THAT WAS JUST THE RVS, BUT SO THERE'S ACCESS TO THE STORAGE FACILITY WITHOUT STAFF DURING THAT SIX? THAT'S CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          YES. 
          AND THAT'S THE WAY THE EXISTING FACILITY OPERATES AS WELL. 
          OKAY. 
          WITH, IS IT A DONGLE? HOW DOES THAT, LIKE, HOW DOES IT FUNCTIONALLY WORK FOR, UH, STORAGE UNIT CUSTOMER ACCESSING THE BUILDING WITHOUT A MEMBER PERSON OF STAFF THERE? OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I, I WOULD SAY THE TYPICAL PERSON YOU RENT YOUR UNIT DURING THOSE OPERATING HOURS, THAT'S WHEN THAT, UM, QUOTE UNQUOTE BUSINESS TRANSACTION WOULD TAKE PLACE. 
          THEY THEN EACH GET AN INDIVIDUAL CODE THAT THEY HAVE TO USE THAT CODE IN ORDER TO GET THROUGH THE GATE. 
          AND THEN ONCE YOU'RE INTO THE GATE, THEY HAVE TO USE THAT CODE TO GET INTO THE BUILDING. 
          AND SO THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE, HAVE ACCESS TO THE FACILITY AND OR THE GATE WOULD BE A CUSTOMER WHO IS A PAYING CUSTOMER THAT ALREADY HAS A CONTRACT IN PLACE WITH THE FACILITY. 
          SO NOBODY OUTSIDE OF, UH, SOMEBODY WHO IS RENTED, WHO IS ON THE, YOU KNOW, HAS THAT DOCUMENTATION, WHO HAS THAT LEASE IN PLACE, COULD ACCESS THE FACILITY. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO NO ONE'S GETTING A NEW LOCKER AT 9:00 PM NO, BUT IF I'VE ALREADY GOT MY LOCKER, I CAN GET TO IT. 
          CORRECT. 
          BETWEEN 6:00 AM AND 10:00 PM CORRECT. 
          WITH A CODE. 
          AND THE INTENTION BEHIND THAT IS TO APPEAL TO, UH, YOU KNOW, 
          [00:45:01]
YOU, YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE RENTING A UNIT YOURSELF, YOU'RE HERE DURING BUSINESS HOURS AND, AND AFTER HOURS YOU NEED TO GO AND ACCESS YOUR UNIT, UM, PRESUMABLY AFTER 6:00 PM WHEN THAT THOSE REGULAR BUSINESS HOURS ARE. 
          SO, UM, IF I MAY, I HAVE A FOLLOW UP FOR THE APPELLANT. 
          HAS THE CLIENT ACCESS DURING THOSE UN CHAPERONED HOURS, , UH, BEEN A PAIN POINT? YOU HAVE TO COME TO THE MIC. 
          SORRY. 
          I DO HEAR THEM AND GET WOKEN UP. 
          I WOULDN'T SAY A LOT, BUT IT, IT HAPPENS. 
          IT'S A CONCERN. 
          OKAY. 
          DOOR, DOOR SLAMS OR, OR WHAT'S THE, THE DOOR SLAMS METAL, THE DOOR OPEN, THE METAL DOORS OPENING. 
          MM-HMM. 
          AND SHEDD PEOPLE HAVE MUSIC. 
          I WOULD SAY PROBABLY EVERY COUPLE WEEKS I'M WOKEN UP. 
          I'M RIGHT THERE. 
          I MEAN, I'M RIGHT THERE. 
          THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM. 
          THAT'S WHY I'M HERE. 
          . 
          GOTCHA. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COMMISSIONER KUZEN. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I'LL START WITH A FEW QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT JUST BEFORE YOU GET ALL THE WAY BACK THERE JUST TO MAKE SURE WE'VE GOT IT. 
          UH, GOT MY HEAD WRAPPED AROUND THIS. 
          SO I THINK WE'VE GOT A PRETTY GOOD SUMMARY OF THE OUTSTANDING CONCERNS. 
          UH, SO I HAVE THE STORE OPERATIONS AND OR THE RV ACCESS OPERATIONS. 
          WE'VE ESTABLISHED NOW THAT THERE CAN BE STAFF ON SITE FROM KIND OF NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS VERSUS FOLKS WHO RENT ON SITE FROM SIX TO 10. 
          SO I THINK WE'VE GOT THAT ONE. 
          WE'VE GOT THE CONSTRUCTION TIME ISSUE GOING INTO THE EVENING. 
          I THINK IT WAS THE PRIMARY CONCERN, BUT THEN I HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT ROAD QUALITY AS WELL. 
          SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, CAN YOU JUST LIST OUT THOSE CONCERNS AND MAKE SURE I'VE GOT THE FULL SCOPE HERE BECAUSE I, I THINK THERE WERE PROBABLY THREE OR FOUR TOTAL. 
          UM, THE ROAD IS NOT WELL MAINTAINED. 
          IT'S PRETTY BAD. 
          AND IS THAT OLD CORONA? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          AND, UM, I HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS AND BECAUSE THERE'S NO LIGHTING, IT'S NOT MAINTAINED. 
          A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT GO BACK THERE, IT'S ALREADY A LOT HAPPENING, BUT I THINK THAT'S GONNA JUST, IT'S GONNA BRING MORE PEOPLE JUST KNOWING ABOUT IT. 
          AND WITH NO LIGHTING, NO DEAD END SIGN? NO, NONE OF THAT. 
          I DON'T KNOW, ACTUALLY KNOW IF A DEAD END SIGN WILL HELP IT OR HURT IT, HONESTLY. 
          BUT THERE'S NO LIGHTING, NO ROAD FIXING, LIKE IT'S, IT'S MUDDY WHEN IT'S RAINING THE FLOOR BIKES COME BACK AND FORTH, BACK AND FORTH. 
          I'VE REPORTED THEM TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          THERE'S, THERE'S ISSUES. 
          OKAY. 
          NOW, SO DO YOU THINK THEN WE'VE GOT THE PRETTY COMPLETE LIST. 
          I MEAN, I GET IT. 
          THESE ARE ALL RELATED TO LIVABILITY. 
          YEAH, SO IT'S HOURS ACCESS, HOURS, ROAD QUALITY, AND THEN HOURS OF CONSTRUCTION. 
          OKAY. 
          I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE YES, YOU DO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WE'VE, WE'VE GOT THAT. 
          THERE WAS ONE MORE THAT I HEARD. 
          IF, IF I CAN JUMP IN WHILE YEAH, YEAH, PLEASE. 
          MAKING SURE. 
          IS THE UTILITY EASEMENT PROPERLY HANDLED OR DO WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT? I BELIEVE, DO I MAYBE THANK YOU AGAIN. 
          UH, EDWIN BRADLEY, I BELIEVE, UH, MR. TRIPLE DID ADDRESS THAT, BUT MAYBE HE COULD MAKE IT MORE CLEAR. 
          'CAUSE IN THE DOCUMENTS I'VE GOT, IT'S NOT CLEAR, BUT AS LONG AS WE'RE ON THE RECORD HERE, IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN AND SHOW HOW THAT WOULD GO, I'D APPRECIATE IT. 
          SURE. 
          SO, UM, IF, IF WE'RE GOING TO SHARE A SCREEN AND LOOK AT, UM, I THINK IT WAS ATTACHMENT FOUR IN THE MEETING ITEM. 
          IT WAS THE CIVIL PLAN SET, UH, FOR THE PROJECT. 
          SO IF WE LOOK, IF WE LOOK HERE, AND THIS IS REPEATED ON MULTIPLE, UH, PAGES OF THE PROJECT PLAN SET. 
          UM, IT'S THIS, WHERE, WHERE WE'RE INDICATING ON THE SCREEN IS A FENCE, RIGHT? SO IT COMES FROM THE SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINE, IT'S STEPPED BACK FROM THE, THE OLD CORONA ROAD RIGHT OF WAY. 
          PART OF THAT STEPPING BACK IS REQUIRED SO THAT PEOPLE CAN PULL IN THE CA IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY, A FIRE ENGINE WOULD BE ABLE TO PULL OFF OF THE ROAD AND THEN WAIT TO OPEN THE GATE, UM, OR, OR, UH, OPEN THE GATE THEMSELVES. 
          AND, BUT THEY'RE FULLY OFF THE ROAD. 
          SO THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT STEP BACK. 
          USUALLY THAT'S 20 FEET. 
          THIS IS 45 FEET BECAUSE THEY'RE ALSO RETAINING ALL OF THE EXISTING TREE CANOPY THAT'S ALIGNING THAT PROPERTY FRONTAGE ALONG OLD CON CORONA ROAD. 
          SO THE FENCE IS, IS INDICATED ON ALL OF THE PLANTS THAT'S EXTENDING FROM THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY LINE ALL THE WAY THROUGH ACROSS THE PROJECT SITE TO, UM, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, IT LOOKS LIKE IT ENDS AT THE UTILITY EASEMENT. 
          HOWEVER, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO EXTEND IT TO, UM, THE APPELLANT'S PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS SHOWN FURTHER UP THERE IN THAT SORT OF SOLID DASH SOLID LINE, UH, THAT WE'RE, WE'RE INDICATING RIGHT NOW. 
          SO THAT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DO TWO THINGS. 
          WE CAN MODIFY A CONDITION OF APPROVAL OR THROUGH THE, THE 
          [00:50:01]
COURSE OF THIS CONVERSATION, STAFF ARE VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO BE SEEING FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT FENCE. 
          BUT, UM, EVERYBODY'S IN AGREEMENT THAT THE FENCE WOULD EXTEND FROM PROPERTY LINE TO PROPERTY LINE. 
          THEN, UM, THEN ON THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF THE UTILITY EASEMENT, THE NEW, UM, EIGHT FOOT TALL SOUND ATTENUATION PRIVACY FENCE WOULD EXTEND ACROSS THE PHASE TWO PROJECT SITE CONNECTING UP WITH, I BELIEVE IT'S A SIX FOOT TALL IRON FENCE SECURITY FENCE THAT'S ALREADY INSTALLED ON THE PHASE ONE PROJECT. 
          THAT THEN RUNS ON ALONG THE UTILITY EASEMENT UP TO AUTO CENTER DRIVE. 
          THEN WE STEP BACK FROM AUTO CENTER DRIVE A BIT AND CONNECT ACROSS TO SECURE THAT UTILITY EASEMENT CONNECTING OVER TO THE HANSEL FORD FENCING. 
          THAT'S, THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS. 
          SO THAT WOULD EFFECTIVELY SECURE THE UTILITY EASEMENT EXCEPT FOR THAT PORTION OF THE, UH, THE APPELLANT'S PROPERTY LINE, WHICH, UM, WE WOULD NOT SEE THAT BEING A, UM, NEXUS FOR THIS PROJECT TO SECURE THAT, THAT IF THE APPELLANT WANTS THAT SECURED, THEN WE WOULD SEE IT AS, AS, UH, THEIR RIGHT TO DO SO AS A PROPERTY OWNER. 
          OKAY. 
          I BELIEVE, MR. DO YOU A FOLLOW UP? YEAH, THANK YOU. 
          UH, I BELIEVE MR. TRIPLE HAS CLARIFIED THAT AS LONG AS THE, THE FINAL APPROVAL REFLECTS WHAT HE SAYS, I THINK WE'RE IN AGREEMENT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          FANTASTIC. 
          WELL, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR SUMMARIZING THE CONCERNS. 
          I GUESS ONE MORE QUESTION, AND THIS MIGHT BE KIND OF A BIG ONE. 
          IN THIS PROCESS, WE'RE HERE TO HEAR AN APPEAL TO KIND OF SCALE BACK AN ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR R APPROVAL. 
          SO FOR YOU, WHAT IS THE OUTCOME YOU WISH TO ACHIEVE BY APPEALING THE SPAR R APPROVAL? WHAT OTHER CONCESSIONS OR WHAT WOULD A RESTART OF THIS KIND OF PROCESS LOOK LIKE FOR YOU AS AN APPELLANT? AND WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD, WHAT BENEFITS WOULD YOU REALIZE FROM THAT? RIGHT? SO IF WE STOP, IF WE PEEL BACK THIS ADMINISTRATIVE SPAR, WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR OR THINGS THAT YOU THINK YOU'LL ACHIEVE THAT WE AREN'T ABLE TO ACHIEVE RIGHT NOW? BECAUSE I THINK THROUGH THIS PROCESS YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO CHANGE THE PROJECT A LOT. 
          SO AS WE LOOK AT YOUR END GOAL, LIKE WHAT DOES SUCCESS LOOK LIKE FOR YOU? WELL, UH, I THINK WE HAVE, WE HAVE LARGELY SUCCEEDED. 
          THE, THE REMAINING ISSUE THAT I THINK HASN'T BEEN COMPLETELY ADDRESSED, ALTHOUGH IT IS BEFORE THE, THE, UH, BOARD IS THE, UH, CONSTRUCTION HOURS EX EXTENDING LATE INTO THE NIGHT, 10:00 PM IS AWFULLY LATE AND STARTING VERY EARLY, ESPECIALLY ON WEEKENDS. 
          UM, I THINK THERE'S BEEN SOME, SOME BACK AND FORTH ON THAT. 
          AND I THINK I FEEL THAT, UH, MS. O'BRIEN HAS BEEN HEARD, UM, BUT IT KIND OF, I BELIEVE IT REMAINS FOR, FOR YOUR ULTIMATE DECISION IN THAT REGARD. 
          BUT WITH REGARD TO THE FENCE, UM, AND THE, THE, THE HOURS ISSUES, I, I BELIEVE WE RESOLVED WHAT WE, WHAT WE WISH TO, TO ADDRESS. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR CHARACTERIZING THAT AND HELPING US MAKE SURE WE, WE'VE GOT A FULL UNDERSTANDING. 
          THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION. 
          YES, OF COURSE. 
          UM, AND THEN MAYBE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF AND THE APPLICANT. 
          I GUESS FOR THE RV STORAGE COMPONENT, DO YOU HAVE A GUESSTIMATION LIKE AN INDUSTRY STANDARD THROUGHPUT FOR THAT KIND OF OPERATION? LIKE HOW OFTEN ARE PEOPLE MOVING RVS? I'VE SEEN SOMEWHERE, I THINK THEY SIT FOREVER. 
          I'VE SEEN SOME WHERE THEY, I'M JUST NOT SURE. 
          WHAT DOES THAT AVERAGE THROUGHPUT LOOK LIKE FROM YOUR RESEARCH? YEAH, SO THAT'S KIND OF A LITTLE BIT OF A MOVING TARGET TO, TO ANSWER AS, AS YOU MAY PRESUME, UM, IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO STORAGE WHERE THE, THE AVERAGE OCCUPANT PROBABLY COMES IN AND ACCESSES THEIR UNIT ABOUT THREE, FOUR TIMES A YEAR. 
          THAT MAY BE DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON THE, THE IDEAL, THE TYPICAL CUSTOMER THAT WE HAVE IS SOMEBODY WHO HAS THE MOTOR HOME THAT, YOU KNOW, THE HOA DOESN'T ALLOW THEM TO, TO PARK IT ON THE SIDE OF THEIR HOUSE OR WHATNOT. 
          IT'S APPEALING TO THAT TYPE OF CUSTOMER. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, A HANDFUL OF TIMES A YEAR, IT'S, UH, ONE THING THAT WE, WE COULD MENTION IS THAT IT'S GONNA BE FAR LESS USE THAN WHAT THE OTHER NEIGHBORING USE IS OF THE VEHICLES MOVING IN THE AUTO LOT. 
          UM, AS A SIDE NOTE WITH IT TOO, WE DO REQUIRE, AS PART OF OUR LEASE THAT THOSE VEHICLES HAVE TO BE OPERABLE AND LICENSED SO THEY CAN'T SIT THERE INDEFINITELY THAT ARE ON, YOU KNOW, UH, CONCRETE BLOCKS AND JUST AREN'T OPERABLE AND IT LOOKS LIKE A JUNKYARD, THEY HAVE TO BE OPERABLE LICENSED AND, UH, YES. 
          SO I DUNNO IF THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION WELL OR NOT. 
          THAT, THAT GETS TO THE HEART OF MY QUESTION. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. 
          UM, AND A QUESTION FOR STAFF, FOR OUR CONSTRUCTION TIMES OR CONSTRUCTION CODE, THERE WAS MENTIONED IN THE STAFF REPORT ABOUT CERTAIN RESIDENTIAL STANDARDS THAT DON'T APPLY FOR THIS PROJECT BECAUSE IT IS A PUD. 
          IS THERE ANYTHING WITH CONSTRUCTION, IS THAT DIFFERENT IN RESIDENTIAL ZONES VERSUS NON-RESIDENTIAL? OR IS IT A UNIFORM STANDARD? UH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. 
          IT'S A UNIFORM STANDARD. 
          UM, 
          [00:55:01]
AND YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE FACTORS AFFECTING CONSTRUCTION HOURS CERTAINLY IS THE, IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO HAVE CONSTRUCTION HOURS SPECIFIC TO EACH PROJECT IN TERMS OF ENFORCEMENT, MONITORING ENFORCEMENT. 
          BUT THE OTHER FACTOR IS THE MORE THAT YOU CONSTRAIN THE CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY, THE LONGER YOU EXTEND THE CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY. 
          UM, THERE'S, UH, THE APPLICANT MENTIONED IT, BUT YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY BRINGING MATERIALS ON SITE, STAGING THEM FOR THE CONSTRUCTION CREWS TO BE ABLE TO USE, UH, YOU KNOW, SUBSEQUENTLY AND SUCH, THERE'S A LOT OF PHASING AND ORCHESTRATION THAT HAPPENS AND, UM, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHY THOSE HOURS ARE SO EXPANSIVE IN THE ICO. 
          UH, I DO THINK THAT WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE APPLICANT, WORKING WITH BUILDING DIVISION AS THE PROJECT IS CONDITIONED, UH, WE CAN, WE CAN GET MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT THOSE HOURS AND CERTAINLY WE'RE BRINGING ATTENTION TO THE, THE CONCERNS OF THE APPELLANT. 
          WELL, AND WITH THAT, HOW DO OUR NOISE ORDINANCE REGULATIONS OVERLAP WITH SOMETHING LIKE THOSE CONSTRUCTION HOURS? I BELIEVE THE NOISE ORDINANCE HOURS DO ALLOW FOR THE CONSTRUCTION HOURS. 
          I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT TO VERIFY. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, BUT IT IS, IT IS WRITTEN INTO OUR PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. 
          UM, AND, AND INTERESTINGLY, OUR PERFORMANCE STANDARDS DO PROVIDE FOR AN EXCEPTION TO OUR NOISE STANDARDS FOR, UM, INTERMITTENT CONSTRUCTION AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU FOR THAT. 
          UH, AND THEN ON THE SAME VEIN, UH, OBVIOUSLY MENTION OF A PHASE CONSTRUCTION PLAN, IT LOOKS LIKE, UM, THAT IS PART OF THIS PACKAGE THAT IS BEING WORKED OUT, UM, THAT THE APPELLANT WILL BE PROVIDED WITH A PHASE CONSTRUCTION PLAN. 
          FIRST OF ALL, JUST MAKE SURE THAT'S CORRECT. 
          AND THEN DO WE HAVE A TIMELINE WHEN, WHEN THAT'S GONNA BE AVAILABLE? DO WE ALREADY HAVE ONE? DO WE WELL, WE WOULD DO, NO, WE DON'T HAVE ONE YET. 
          UM, WE ISSUED A BUILDING PERMIT FOR DEMOLITION, UH, BUT WE HAVE WITHHELD THE, UH, BUILDING PERMIT FOR THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY, UM, PENDING THE OUTCOME OF THE APPEAL. 
          THE FIRST STEP OF THE CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY, UH, WOULD BE TO CONSTRUCT THE FENCES, THE, THE PRIVACY FENCES, THE SOUND ATTENUATION FENCES AND SO FORTH. 
          UH, AND THEN WE ALWAYS DO PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETINGS AND WE MAY DO, WE CAN DO THOSE THROUGHOUT THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS AS WELL. 
          SO ONE OF THE FIRST TASKS OF THAT PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETING WITH LEARN WOULD BE TO DOWNLOAD FROM THE APPLICANT WHAT IS THE CONSTRUCTION PHASING AND PLAN, WHERE DO THEY SEE THOSE TIMES WHERE THEY MIGHT BE ANTICIPATING A DELIVERY OF MATERIALS, UM, OR, YOU KNOW, POURING CONCRETE OR SO FORTH. 
          AND THEN, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE LOOK AT HOW CAN WE MITIGATE THAT AND, AND DIAL IT IN, UM, SO THAT THE LEAST AMOUNT OF DISTURBANCE IS POSSIBLE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THEN, UM, FINAL QUESTION HERE. 
          DO WE HAVE ANY NEXUS TO REQUIRE IMPROVEMENTS ON OLD CORONA ROAD? THAT WAS ONE THING THAT I DIDN'T SEE THIS BEING THE SCOPE, BUT, BUT PLEASE IF YOU COULD SPEAK TO THAT. 
          SURE. 
          THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. 
          THE ONLY, THE ONLY NEXUS WE WOULD HAVE WOULD BE IF, UM, THERE WAS DAMAGE RESULTING FROM THE CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY, AND WE HAVE CONFIRMED THAT WITH PUBLIC WORKS. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THANK YOU. 
          I THINK FOR NOW THAT, UH, SUMS UP MY QUESTIONS. 
          I MAY  AND IF THE APPELLANT HAS A YEAH. 
          FOLLOW UP. 
          SURE. 
          MM-HMM . 
          THANK YOU AGAIN, EDWIN BRADLEY, IF I MAY ADD JUST ONE POINT, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, AND YOU CAN ADDRESS THIS FURTHER WITH MS. O'BRIEN, BUT MUCH OF THE DAMAGE THAT'S BEEN DONE TO THAT ROADWAY IS RESULTING FROM THE FIRST STAGE OF THE, THE WASATCH CONSTRUCTION PROJECT. 
          THERE WERE LARGE TRUCKS AND, AND, AND EQUIPMENT GOING UP AND DOWN THAT ROAD AND TURNING AROUND AND REPOSITIONING THEM THEMSELVES. 
          SO AS, AS, AS THE CASE IS IN MUCH OF PETALUMA, THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, ROAD DEFECTS. 
          WE ALL KNOW THAT AND LIVE WITH THAT. 
          BUT WHAT WAS DONE THERE IS, IS BEEN CONSIDERABLY WORSE SINCE THE, UH, THE FIRST PHASE PHASE OF THIS PROJECT BEGAN. 
          CAN I RESPOND TO THAT TOO? I WOULD TAKE EXCEPTION TO THAT. 
          WE HAVE GOOGLE PHOTOS, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DOCUMENTATION PRIOR TO THAT, THE BUILDING THAT WE BUILT WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE. 
          IT WAS ON AUTO CENTER DRIVE. 
          UM, WE HAVEN'T STARTED CONSTRUCTION REALLY ON THIS SIDE OF THE PROJECT. 
          UH, WITH REGARD TO THE, THE CONSTRUCTION HOURS. 
          LOOK, WE'RE REASONABLE. 
          WE WANT TO BE REASONABLE. 
          WE DON'T WANT TO BE A PAIN. 
          UM, WE, WE FEEL LIKE WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THIS AND, AND RESOLVE THE CONCERNS OF ANYBODY AROUND. 
          WE JUST DON'T WANNA BACK OURSELVES INTO A CORNER THAT IF YOU KNOW SOMEBODY'S, YOU KNOW, DOING SOME PAINTING THERE AND THEY, THEY RUN A LITTLE BIT AFTER HOURS, THAT WE'RE NOW IN VIOLATION OF OUR CONDITIONS. 
          THAT'S KIND OF WHAT OUR INTENTION IS. 
          WE WANNA, WE WANNA BE 
          [01:00:01]
GOOD STEWARDS OF THE, THE APPROVALS, BUT, UH, WE ALSO CAN BE REASONABLE WITH THAT AS WELL. 
          SO, THANK YOU. 
          COMMISSIONER HILT, YOU NEED TO UNMUTE PLEASE. 
          THAT WOULD PROBABLY HELP. 
          THANK YOU. 
          CHAIR. 
          UM, AND, AND AGAIN, I'M ONLINE. 
          I'M ALONE. 
          I'M SUPPOSED TO REMARK THAT WHEN I START EACH CONVERSATION. 
          UM, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, MAYBE THIS IS A QUESTION FOR THE, THE, UM, THE APPLICANT. 
          IS THERE TWO THINGS I'M WORRYING THINKING ABOUT HERE IN TERMS OF NOISE, UH, CONSTRUCTION TIMELINE, HOW LONG? I KNOW THAT'S SORT OF A, A TOUGH THING TO TOTALLY, UH, NAIL DOWN, BUT CONSTRUCTION TIMELINES START TO FINISH, SO WE MIGHT KNOW HOW LONG THE, OUR, OUR RESIDENT MAY BE IMPACTED BY THIS. 
          AND THEN ALSO, AM I CORRECT STAFF? MAYBE ANDREW, THIS IS FOR YOU. 
          EXISTING STORAGE FACILITY HAS OUTDOOR DIRECT ACCESS FROM OUTDOOR. 
          SO THEORETICALLY THAT NOISE LEVEL FROM THAT EXISTING IS MORE THAN WHAT WOULD BE WITH A NEW FACILITY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO AS FAR AS THE DIRECT ACCESS, YOU ARE CORRECT. 
          THE EXISTING STORAGE FACILITY DOES HAVE A LOADING ZONE THAT IS ON THE, I BELIEVE WE'RE CALLING IT THE NORTH SIDE, WHICH IS THE, THE NEIGHBOR'S SIDE OF IT. 
          SO YES, THAT WOULD HAVE LOADING ACCESS ON THAT SIDE. 
          AND, AND REMIND ME IF YOU WILL, COMMISSIONER I APOLOGIZE FOR THE, THE FIRST QUESTION THAT YOU HAD, JUST THE CONSTRUCTION TIMELINE FROM START TO FINISH. 
          HOW LONG WILL THE, OUR RESIDENT BE IMPACTED BY ANY CONSTRUCTION NOISE? YES. 
          WE BELIEVE THAT THE CONSTRUCTION TIMELINE IS BETWEEN SIX AND SEVEN MONTHS FOR THIS. 
          AND THE MAJORITY OF THAT WORK WOULD BE INTERIOR WORK. 
          THE EXTERIOR WORK IS PUTTING UP THE ELEVATOR SHAFT, SOME INCIDENTAL CONCRETE, THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          THE LANDSCAPING, THE BULK OF THE WORK IS INTERIOR WORK. 
          GREAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          CHAIR. 
          IF WE MIGHT PAUSE SO THAT THE RECORD CAN SHOW THAT COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN HAS JOINED THE PUBLIC HEARING. 
          THANK YOU MUCH WELCOME. 
          OH, CHAIR, MAY I SPEAK TO THAT BECAUSE THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL ITEM WITH THE PROPERTY INTERESTS AT STAKE BECAUSE MR. GOLDMAN HAS NOT BEEN PRESENT TO HEAR ALL OF THE PRESENTATION UNLESS HE WAS LISTENING ONLINE AND HE COULD MAKE A RECORD OF THAT, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT HE NOT PARTICIPATE IN THIS ITEM OR THE VOTE. 
          OKAY. 
          CAN HE STAY UP HERE OR SHOULD WE HAVE HIM SIT IN THE UNTIL THE NEXT ITEM? IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE BETTER IF HE STEPS DOWN. 
          OKAY. 
          WE'LL SEE YOU UNMUTING. 
          ITEM TWO. 
          THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN, COUNCIL MEMBER. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, ONE OF THE OTHER COMMENTS THAT WAS BROUGHT UP WAS AROUND OPERATING HOURS AND, UM, THE SIX TO 10, UM, AND I THINK THE STATEMENT WAS MADE THAT, THAT'S A NORMAL THING. 
          I'M JUST LOOKING, I JUST LOOKED AT THREE PETALUMA BUSINESSES OR PUBLIC STORAGE AND, YOU KNOW, SEVEN TO SEVEN, I'M SEEING SIX TO NINE. 
          UM, AND THEN I'M SEEING EIGHT TO SIX AND, OR NO, SIX 30 TO 8:00 PM NONE OF 'EM ARE GOING TO 10:00 PM IS THAT, IS THAT PRETTY USUAL? ARE YOU SEEING OTHER, UM, OPERATIONS IN PETALUMA OR OTHER ELSEWHERE THAT GO TILL 10:00 PM YEAH, WE, I, I GUESS I CAN'T SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO THE, THE REST OF THEM, BUT THE, THE WAY WE ANSWER THAT IS A LOT OF TIMES THE OTHER GROUPS, JUST AS A LOT OF OURS TOO, WILL NOT SHOW WHAT THE ACTUAL CUSTOMER ACCESS HOURS ARE. 
          THEY'RE REFERRING TO THE OPENING HOURS WHEN, WHEN BUSINESSES BEING CONDUCTED OFTEN. 
          I CAN'T SAY HOW IT ALWAYS IS. 
          UH, STORE QUEST IS AN OPERATOR THAT WE USE. 
          THEY'RE NOT OUR COMPANY. 
          THEY'RE A THIRD PARTY MANAGER. 
          THEY OPERATE PROPERTIES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND THAT IS THE, THE MOST QUOTE UNQUOTE, TYPICAL HOURS THAT ARE, ARE USED IN THAT REGARD. 
          BUT, UH, YEAH, SO I, I CAN'T SPECIFICALLY, UM, CONFIRM WHAT OTHER GROUPS ARE USING, BUT THAT'S, IT IS FAIRLY TYPICAL. 
          YEAH. 
          I'M, I'M REFERRING TO ACCESS HOURS, NOT, NOT OPERATING. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH, NOT OPERATING HOURS. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ANYMORE MORE COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS? OKAY, THEN LET'S MOVE ON TO PUBLIC COMMENT. 
          UH, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO COMMENT ON THIS ITEM. 
          PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON, AND IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE SO ALREADY, PLEASE FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD AND BRING IT TO THE CLERK. 
          CLERK. 
          HAVE WE HAD, UH, ANY COMMENTS RECEIVED PRIOR TO THE MEETING? WE RECEIVED ABOUT SIX PUBLIC COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING BACK IN 2025, WHICH HAVE BEEN, UH, WHICH HAVE BEEN UPLOADED ONLINE. 
          AND WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS THIS YEAR FOR THIS SPECIFIC MEETING ITEM. 
          OKAY. 
          AND DO WE HAVE ANY IN-PERSON SPEAKERS? I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY, UH, CARDS FOR THIS MEETING ITEM. 
          OKAY. 
          THEN WE WILL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT. 
          AND GIVEN THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT TO REBUT, I'LL 
          [01:05:01]
ASSUME THAT THE APPELLANT AND APPLICANT ARE, ARE GOOD  AND WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSIONERS FOR CONSIDERATION COMMENT, UM, AND EVENTUALLY A VOTE. 
          SO ANYONE WANNA KICK US OFF WITH COMMISSIONER RECKSON? SURE, I'LL, I'LL JUST SUMMARIZE THAT I THINK THE APPELLANT HAS DONE A GREAT JOB IN ADVOCATING FOR HER PROPERTY RIGHTS. 
          I THINK THE PROCESS THAT YOU'VE COME TO FROM READING THE STAFF REPORT AND HEARING THE CONVERSATION IN THE ROOM, YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF AND GOTTEN REALLY A LOT OF CONCESSIONS, I THINK, FROM THE PROJECT APPLICANT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, MY QUESTION ABOUT WHAT WOULD YOU GET IF WE PEELED BACK THE SPAR HEARING? I THINK IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT A SOLUTION TO THIS CONSTRUCTION TIMING, WHICH I THINK AGAIN, THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN PRETTY RECEPTIVE ON, ON TRYING TO STRUCTURE THAT. 
          UM, I'M WONDERING FROM STAFF IF THERE IS, YOU KNOW, YOU CITED THAT OUR NOISE MID, UM, NOISE ORDINANCE USUALLY EXEMPTS INTERMITTENT CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY. 
          I DUNNO, I DON'T WANNA MAKE SOME KIND OF SPECIAL SCENARIO THAT PUTS A BURDEN ON ENFORCEMENT THAT JUST WON'T HAPPEN. 
          BUT I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S SOME COMBINATION OF EXISTING ORDINANCE THAT WE COULD USE TO SAY, HEY, THERE MIGHT BE A SCENARIO WHERE SOMEONE'S WORKING THERE AT 10:00 PM BUT IF THEY ARE VIOLATING OUR NOISE ORDINANCE, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN REPORT AND THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH, UM, THAT WOULD BE MY VISION AND I'LL, I'LL LET YOU ANSWER THAT RIGHT AFTER I FINISH. 
          SO ALL THAT TO SAY THAT IN MY MIND, UM, THERE'LL BE MORE ITEMS TO DISCUSS, BUT IN MY MIND, I DON'T THINK REPEALING THE SPAR REALLY GETS YOU ANYTHING MORE. 
          UH, I THINK IT WILL DELAY THE APPLICANT AND HONESTLY, FROM WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE ACTIVITIES GOING ON ON SITE PRIOR, I THINK HAVING AN ACTIVE SITE IS GONNA BE BETTER, LONG, LONG-TERM. 
          UM, SO I THINK WHEN YOU HAVE THESE KIND OF SCENARIOS GETTING SOMEONE AN OPERATOR IN ACTIVE BUSINESS ACTIVITY HAPPENING, IT MITIGATES REALLY WHAT I SEE THE BIGGER DOWNSIDES ARE THAT YOU'VE BEEN DEALING WITH UP TO THIS POINT. 
          UM, SO I'LL, I'LL LET STAFF SPEAK TO THAT IDEA OF HOW DO WE ALLOW FOR KIND OF A COMPROMISE WHERE CONSTRUCTION CAN HAPPEN, BUT IT CAN'T VIOLATE NOISE STANDARDS. 
          BUT I'LL JUST SAY TO THE REST OF THE COMMITTEE THAT RIGHT NOW I, I'M NOT INCLINED TO GO FOR AN APPEAL JUST 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK IT GETS THE APPELLANT REALLY ANY CLOSER TO THEIR GOALS. 
          AND I THINK RIGHT NOW WE'RE ACTUALLY REALLY CLOSE IN GETTING SOMETHING THAT WORKS FOR ALL SIDES. 
          I THINK THE APPELLANTS ALREADY DONE A LOT OF LEGWORK IN GETTING AN OUTCOME THAT MEETS A LOT OF THEIR NEEDS. 
          UM, SO YEAH, WITH THAT, ANDREW, IF YOU WOULD COMMENT NOW OR LATER ON THAT IDEA OF SOME WAY TO ALLOW FOR CONSTRUCTION BUT STILL HAVE SOME ENFORCEMENT IF WE'RE OVER A DECIBEL THRESHOLD OR SOMETHING. 
          I THINK COMMISSIONER, I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS AND THEN COMMENT AS, AS A SORT OF A CONCLUDING COMMENT OR A FOLLOW UP FOR EVERYBODY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COMMISSIONER HILT. 
          HI AGAIN. 
          THIS IS COMMISSIONER HILT ONLINE ALL BY MYSELF. 
          UM, JUST I THINK THE APPELLANT AND THE APPLICANT HAVE WORKED TOGETHER REALLY WELL HERE AND DEMONSTRATED A COMMITMENT TO FINDING SOME MIDDLE GROUND HERE AND PRIOR TO THEM COMING BEFORE US, THE ANCILLARY OFF-PREMISE ISSUES, I THINK ARE ONES THAT, UM, PETALUMA NEEDS TO FIX, NOT THE APPLICANT DEALING WITH THE ROAD, DEALING WITH THE NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES THAT ARE OCCURRING IN THAT AREA. 
          PETALUMA OWNS THOSE, NOT THE APPLICANT TO FIX. 
          THANK YOU FOR THAT. 
          COMMISSIONER SCHULTZ. 
          UM, UM, I'M INCLINED TO AGREE AND I KNOW THAT'S UNFORTUNATE 'CAUSE WE'VE LIKE GOT , UH, UH, AN APPLICANT HERE THAT YOU'D HOPE COULD, UM, POTENTIALLY CHANGE SOME THINGS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT IT, IT IS A NEXUS ISSUE, UM, WHICH COMES UP A LOT, UH, UH, IN FRONT OF US. 
          SO, UM, GOOD ON YOU FOR KEEPING UP WITH THE REPORTS. 
           AND I, I'M SURE THAT'S FRUSTRATING, UM, BUT HOPEFULLY WE CAN, UH, SEE SOME IMPROVEMENTS AND, AND I'M INCLINED TO AGREE THAT HAVING AN ACTIVE SITE IS GONNA, IS GONNA PROVIDE, UM, A BIT MORE COVER FOR THAT AS WELL. 
          WHO, OKAY, COMMISSIONER? NO, UM, THE ONE, THE ONE THING THAT I'M, I SUPPOSE HAVING TROUBLE WITH ON, ON THIS APPEAL, IS IT AN, IS IT INCORPORATING THE CHANGES TO THE, UH, TO THE PCD ZONING AMENDMENT THAT WE WOULD THEN BE LATER APPROVING AND THAT'S THE HOURS OF ACCESS FOR RV STORAGE? UM, SO I THINK I'M, I WOULD LIKE TO CONDITION WHAT WE, WHAT WE DO IN TERMS OF THE APPEAL SUBJECT TO WHATEVER HOURS OF ACCESS THE CITY COUNCIL ULTIMATELY DECIDES IS APPROPRIATE FOR RV STORAGE UNDER THE PLANNED COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT 
          [01:10:01]
ZONING AMENDMENT SO THAT IT WOULD APPLY TO THIS PROPERTY OWNER AND ANY OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS IN THIS AREA THAT DECIDE TO START, UM, HAVING RV STORAGE IN THE, UH, PLAN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. 
          IS IT, DO WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT HOW TO DO THAT EFFECTIVELY? UM, WE ALREADY HAVE A CONDITION THAT REFERS TO, UM, WELL, IT REFERS TO NO THAT SPECIFIES THAT NO IMPROVEMENTS TO THE EXISTING PAVED AREA IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING WILL BE PERMITTED UNTIL THE PROPOSED OUTDOOR RV STORAGE LAND USE FOR WHICH AMENDMENT OF THE RANCHO ARROYO BUSINESS PARK PCD IS REQUIRED, IS ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. 
          HOWEVER, IN IN IMPLEMENTATION, ANY, UM, ANY STANDARDS OR REGULATIONS CONTAINED IN THE PCD AMENDMENT WOULD BE APPLIED TO THE, THE USE WHEN IT'S IMPLEMENTED. 
          SO I THINK TO, TO REASSURE YOU THAT WE DON'T NEED TO CONDITION THIS APPEAL MATTER BECAUSE YOU'LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL ON HOURS OF OPERATION THROUGH THE PCD AMENDMENT PUBLIC HEARING, SO LONG AS IT'S CLEAR TO THE APPLICANT THAT THAT THEIR HOURS OF OPERATION AS EXPECTED MAY BE CURTAILED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          SURE. 
          I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT'S FULLY AWARE THAT, THAT THAT'S MM-HMM . 
          THAT SEEMS LIKE RIGHT. 
          GREAT. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER, I THINK, I THINK COMMISSIONER NEWELL JUST SORT OF HIT ON MY MAIN POINT WAS THE HOURS OF OPERATION. 
          UM, I, UH, AM SYMPATHETIC TO THE CONSTRUCTION NOISE. 
          I'M ALSO SYMPATHETIC TO THE PAINTER WHO WANTS TO GET THE JOB DONE  AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE TOO. 
          UM, SO I GUESS MY, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S SOME WAY WE CAN CONDITION SOMETHING OF, YOU KNOW, ANY, ANY, UM, I THINK WHAT COMMISSIONER RAKUTEN WAS TALKING ABOUT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, NOTICING ANYTHING OVER A CERTAIN PERIOD OR, UM, MAYBE NOT ALL FEDERAL HOLIDAYS BECAUSE YOU KNOW, MAYBE MEMORIAL DAY IS A DAY WHEN PEOPLE MIGHT WANNA WORK, BUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE NOT ON, I DON'T KNOW, THANKSGIVING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          UM, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE RIGHT, UM, APPROACH IS THERE. 
          UM, BUT I DEFINITELY DON'T WANNA SEE, YOU KNOW, RUNNING A, A SAWZALL AT, UH, AT 10:00 PM FOR EXAMPLE. 
          SO THAT, THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS, SO I THINK YOU CAN ADDRESS THOSE NOW. 
          GREAT. 
          SURE. 
          SO I THINK IN ADDRESSING YOUR COMMENTS THEN COMMISSIONER KUSON I'LL ADDRESS YOURS AS WELL AND CORRECT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND, AND, UM, GREAT. 
          SO WHAT THE, THE IZO, UM, CHAPTER OR SECTION 21.04, ZERO A THREE A IS, IS HOW WE REGULATE NOISE GENERALLY IN WITHIN THAT SECTION. 
          THEN IT SAYS THAT, UM, THE FOLLOWING OR DECLARED TO BE PUBLIC NUISANCE AS AND ARE PROHIBITED, AND THEN IT GOES ON TO MAKE REFERENCE TO THE OPERATION OR USE OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING BEFORE 7:00 AM OR AFTER 10:00 AM DAILY EXCEPT SATURDAY, SUNDAY STATE, FEDERAL, LOCAL HOLIDAYS WHEN THE PROHIBITED TIME SHALL BE BEFORE 9:00 AM AND AFTER 10:00 AM SO IT, IT DOES, IT DOES HAVE TWO SETS OF DIFFERENT TIMEFRAMES THERE. 
          ONE FOR THE WEEKDAYS, 7:00 AM 10:00 PM AND ONE FOR SATURDAY, SUNDAY, AND HOLIDAYS FROM 9:00 AM TO 10:00 PM THEN IT, YEAH. 
          PM 10:00 PM RIGHT. 
          7:00 AM TO 10:00 PM OKAY. 
          SORRY, YOU WERE SAYING AM OH, SORRY. 
          YEAH, I WAS LIKE, THAT'S A VERY SMALL WINDOW TO BE GETTING YOUR WORK DONE TOO MUCH THERE. 
          YEAH. 
          SO THEN IT GOES ON TO LIST A VARIETY OF ACTIVITIES AND UNFORTUNATELY THERE'S, UH, THERE'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE ERROR IN THE IZO THAT DOESN'T ALIGN THESE, UM, ACTIVITIES AS SORT OF SUBSECTIONS OF, OF CODE UNDERNEATH THIS THREE A ONE, BUT A HAMMER OR ANY OTHER DEVICE USED TO REPEATEDLY POUND OR STRIKE AN OBJECT AND IMPACT WRENCH OR ANYTHING ELSE, UM, POWERED BY COMPRESSED AIR, A TOOL OR PIECE OF EQUIPMENT POWERED BY INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE, CHAINSAW, BACKPACK BLOWER LAWNMOWER, ELECTRIC OR BATTERY POWERED TOOL OR PIECE OF EQUIPMENT USED FOR CUTTING DRILLING OR SHAPING WOOD, ANY OF THE OPERATION OR UNLOADING OF HEAVY EQUIPMENT SUCH AS BULLDOZERS, ROW GRADERS, BACKHOE, PORTABLE POWER GENERATORS, PUMP PAVEMENT, WE'RE WE'RE GETTING THE POINT. 
          AND THEN CONSTRUCTION, DEMOLITION EXCAVATION, ERECTION ALTERATION OR REPAIR ACTIVITY. 
          SO IT'S A PRETTY EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED OUTSIDE OF THOSE HOURS OF 
          [01:15:01]
OPERATION. 
          HENCEFORTH. 
          THAT MEANS THEN THAT THOSE ACTIVITIES ARE ALLOWED WITHIN THOSE HOURS OF OPERATION, AND THAT'S APPLICABLE THROUGHOUT THE CITY, WHETHER IT'S CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY OR NOT. 
          WHAT WE'VE DONE THEN, IN THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, IF WE LOOK TO, UH, CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL 18, UH, WE TALK ABOUT THE CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY SHALL COMPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING MEASURES WE MAKE REFERENCE TO THAT SECTION. 
          BUT THEN WE GO ON TO SAY TO THE EXTENT FEASIBLE CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED DEGRADING PILE DRIVING AND OPERATION OF HEAVY EQUIPMENT SHALL NOT COMMENCE UNTIL AFTER 8:00 AM ON ANY DAY DURING WHICH CONSTRUCTION IS ALLOWED. 
          UH, SO WE DO HAVE THAT IN THERE. 
          AND THEN WE ALSO APPLY THAT TO SITE AND TRUCK TRAFFIC, UM, ACTIVITY GOING ON. 
          UH, WE ALSO REQUIRE, WAIT, SORRY, WHERE IS THAT 8:00 AM RESTRICTION? UH, THAT'S IN 18 A. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THE CONDITIONS, TWO OF THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, A TWO AND A THREE, AND THEN IN 18 AB UH, WE HAVE, DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE OF THE PROJECT, THE APPLICANT SHALL ENSURE THAT ANY OPENINGS ON THE NORTHEAST AND WEST SIDES OF THE BUILDING ARE MAINTAINED IN A CLOSED STATE WHENEVER FEASIBLE IN ORDER TO MINIMIZE POTENTIAL CONSTRUCTION NOISE IMPACTS THEN, THEN ELSEWHERE. 
          AND CONDITION 20 IS WHERE WE HAVE, UM, THE CONSTRUCTION FACING AND MANAGEMENT PLAN REQUIREMENT, WORKING WITH THE PLANNING AND BUILDING DIVISION STAFF TO DEVELOP A CONSTRUCTION FACING AND MANAGEMENT PLAN THAT ACCOMPLISHES A VARIETY OF OBJECTIVES. 
          THEN WE HAVE 1, 2, 3, 7 OBJECTIVES, UM, WHICH ARE, ARE INTENDED TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE BEING SENSITIVE TO THIS ISSUE OF NOISE AND GIVEN, GIVEN THE ISSUES THAT WERE EXPERIENCED WITH THE PHASE ONE PROJECT, UH, AS WELL AS THIS APPEAL AND SO FORTH, UH, CODE ENFORCEMENT STAFF, PLANNING STAFF, BUILDING STAFF, PUBLIC WORK STAFF, ALL CITY STAFF THAT ARE INVOLVED IN CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY ARE VERY AWARE OF THE CONCERNS. 
          AND I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THROUGH, UH, THE IMPLEMENTATION OF CONDITIONS, 18 CONDITIONS 20 AND OUR APPROACH TO WORKING IN PRE-CONSTRUCTION WITH THE APPLICANT, THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO MINIMIZE TO THE GREATEST EXTENT POSSIBLE ANY OF THOSE IMPACTS THAT MIGHT OTHERWISE HAPPEN. 
          OKAY. 
          SO JUST IF I, MY RECAP MM-HMM . 
          OUR NOISE CODE SPELLS OUT A VARIETY OF THINGS. 
          JUST ALL THIS NOISY STUFF. 
           IS ONLY ALLOWED TO HAPPEN BETWEEN 7:00 AM AND 10:00 PM CORRECT. 
          AND THEN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT HOURS FOR WEEKENDS AND HOLIDAYS. 
          CORRECT. 
          AND WE'RE SAYING THAT WE'VE ALREADY GOT IN 18, WE'VE BUMPED THAT BACK TO 8:00 AM FOR ALL THAT NOISY STUFF. 
          CORRECT. 
          UH, ALTHOUGH, UM, RIGHT. 
          TO THE EXTENT FEASIBLE, TO THE EXTENT FEASIBLE. 
          SO, SO FOR INSTANCE, IF THERE WAS THE NEED FOR SAY THERE, THEY'RE POURING AND INSIDE. 
          SURE, SURE, SURE. 
          YES. 
          IT'S THE ONLY TIME YOU CAN GET YOUR BULLDOZER DELIVERED IS 7:00 AM CORRECT. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT IS IT, COULD WE ADD, IF YOU'VE, IF WE'VE ALREADY BUMPED IT BACK TO 8:00 AM CAN WE ALSO CUT IT AT THE BACK AND SAY TO 8:00 PM MAY I, MAY I SPEAK TO THAT? SURE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, I AM, AND I JUST WANNA PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT AS YOU GUYS ARE CONSIDERING THE CONSTRUCTION TYPE OF NOISE. 
          UH, SO WE HAVE IN THE IZO THAT THE CITY COUNCIL HAS ALREADY MADE SOME POLICY DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT KIND OF CONSTRUCTION NOISE AND WHAT TIMES OF DAYS ARE APPROPRIATE. 
          AND THEY'VE MADE A POLICY DECISION THAT 7:00 AM TO 10:00 PM GENERALLY, EXCEPT FOR ON THESE PARTICULAR DAYS, 9:00 AM TO 10:00 PM IS ACCEPTABLE FOR CONSTRUCTION NOISE. 
          UM, AND THEN I JUST WANT TO SORT OF ORIENT WHERE WE ARE IN THIS PROCESS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A CONDITIONAL USE IN PERMIT APPLICATION IN FRONT OF US. 
          WERE ON SPAR REVIEW, UH, AN APPEAL OF SPAR REVIEW, WHICH IS REALLY PRIMARILY A DESIGN REVIEW. 
          MOST OF THE CRITERIA YOU'RE LOOKING AT ARE DESIGN OF A PROJECT. 
          AND IF YOU ARE CONSIDERING WHETHER NOISE ISSUES, UM, NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, REALLY THE ONLY OPPORTUNITY YOU WOULD HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT IS IF YOU DETERMINE THAT NOISE CONCERNS AND THE RECORD HAS BEEN MADE, THAT THE NOISE CONCERNS RISE TO THE LEVEL OF CONSTITUTING A NUISANCE OR ARE DETRIMENTAL TO THE PUBLIC WELFARE OF THE COMMUNITY. 
          SO IF YOU DON'T GET TO THAT LEVEL, THEN THAT TYPE OF CONDITION WOULDN'T TYPICALLY FALL WITHIN SPAR REVIEW. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WITH THAT IN MIND, IT SOUNDS LIKE OUR MOST, UH, LIKELY TOOL 
          [01:20:01]
IS AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE APPLICANT AND THE APPELLANT AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? OKAY. 
          SO I THINK WE'VE PRETTY WELL CONVINCED OURSELVES THAT, UM, THE, THIS, THIS BAR OUGHT TO STAND, UM, AS OPPOSED TO, UM, APPROVING THE APPEAL. 
          AND I APPRECIATE ALL OF THE WORK THAT THE APPLICANT AND THE APPELLANT HAVE DONE TO COME TO COMMON GROUND. 
          AND IT SOUNDS LIKE NEARLY EVERYTHING HAS BEEN, IF NOT AGREED TO IN CONDITIONS, AGREE TO IN CORDIAL EXCHANGES, . 
          UM, AND I ALSO APPRECIATE STAFF'S COMMITMENT TO, YOU KNOW, STAYING ON TOP OF THIS PROJECT AND, AND BEING A, A HELPFUL PARTNER WHEN IT COMES TO CO CODE ENFORCEMENT WHEN THE TIME COMES. 
          UM, SO WITH THAT, DO WE HAVE ANY MORE COMMENTS? DO WE WANNA HAVE A MOTION? I WAS GONNA MAKE A MOTION, UM, I'LL MOVE TO UPHOLD THE DIRECTOR'S DECISION TO APPROVE THE ADMINISTRATIVE SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURE REVIEW, SUBJECT TO REVISED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL FOR THE WASATCH SELF STORAGE PHASE TWO PROJECT LOCATED AT 85 CORONA ROAD, AND DENY THE APPEAL SUBMITTED BY MR. EDWIN BRADLEY OF RALPH LAW FIRM ON DECEMBER 22ND, 2025. 
          ON BEHALF OF HIS CLIENT, MS. DEANNA O'BRIEN. 
          AND I, UM, ALSO APPRECIATE THE COLLABORATIVE WORK THAT'S BEEN DONE TO, UM, SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVE THE PROJECT. 
          SO THANK YOU FOR, FOR ENGAGING. 
          WE HAVE A MOTION. 
          DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I'LL MAKE A SECOND THANK YOU. 
          MOTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER BARNICLE AND A SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER RAKUTEN. 
          IF WE COULD PLEASE PROCEED TO A ROLL CALL VOTE. 
          COMMISSIONER EBNER ABSENT. 
          COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN ABSTAIN. 
          UH, COMMISSIONER NEWELL? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER KUSON? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER HILT? YES. 
          ONLINE AND ALONE AT HOME COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE. 
          AYE. 
          CHAIR MOSES? YES, IT IS APPROVED. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR EVERYONE AND THE ROBUST PARTICIPATION ON THAT FIRST MEETING ITEM. 
          UM, WE'LL TAKE OURSELVES INTO MEETING ITEM TWO AND INVITE COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN TO JOIN US. 
          SORRY, I HAD ONE MORE THING ON. 
          OH, WE LOST OUR APPELLANT. 
          OH, I HAD ONE MORE THING TO READ INTO THE RECORD. 
          DO I HAVE TO? OKAY. 
          UH, PURSUANT TO THE CITY OF PETALUMA'S IMPLEMENTING ZONING CODE CHAPTER 24, SECTION 0 9 0, A DECISION BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAY BE APPEALED TO CITY COUNCIL WITHIN 14 DAYS OF THE DATE OF THE DECISION. 
          THE APPEAL MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING TO THE CITY CLERK. 
          SORRY FOR MISSING THAT BEFORE CLOSING. 
          MEETING ONE, MEETING ITEM ONE, EXCUSE ME. 
          SO 
          [2.
 Public Hearing – Recommendation to the City of Petaluma Planning Commission to Conduct a Public Hearing and Approve a Resolution Recommending the City Council Adopt an Ordinance Amending the Rancho Arroyo Business Park Planned Community Development (PCD) Zoning District Regulations to Allow Outdoor Recreational Vehicle (RV) Storage as a Permitted Accessory Use for Parcels Subject to the PCD Regulations and Minor Administrative Amendments. The proposed PCD Amendment is exempt from further review under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) pursuant to CEQA Guidelines Section 15061(b)(3) as there is no possibility that the activity in question may have a significant effect on the environment, and it is categorically exempt under Section 15301 (Existing Facilities) which allows modifications that involve negligible expansion of use. THIS MEETING ITEM WAS PUBLISHED ON FRIDAY, MARCH 6, 2026.]
WE'LL CONTINUE ON TO MEETING ITEM TWO, WHICH IS A PUBLIC HEARING. 
          IT IS RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY OF PETALUMA PLANNING COMMISSION TO CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND APPROVE A RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPT AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE RANCHO ARROYO BUSINESS PARK, PLANNED COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, OR PCD ZONING DISTRICT REGULATIONS TO ALLOW OUTDOOR, RECREATIONAL VEHICLE OR RV STORAGE AS A PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE FOR PARCELS. 
          SUBJECT TO THE PCD REGULATIONS AND MINOR ADMINISTRATIVE AMENDMENTS. 
          THE PROPOSED PCD AMENDMENT IS EXEMPT FROM FURTHER REVIEW UNDER THE CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY ACT, OR CQA PURSUANT TO CA GUIDELINES SECTION 1 5 0 6 1 B THREE, AS THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY THAT THE ACTIVITY IN QUESTION MAY HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND IT'S CATEGORICALLY, CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT UNDER SECTION 1 53 0 1 EXISTING FACILITIES, WHICH ALLOWS MODIFICATIONS THAT INVOLVE NEGLIGIBLE EXPANSION OF USE. 
          ONCE AGAIN, WE ARE IN A PUBLIC HEARING, AND THEREFORE IT DOES REQUIRE DISCLOSING ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS, ANY EX PARTE TO DISCLOSE NONE ON LINE. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, IN THAT CASE, WE'LL TURN IT BACK OVER TO STAFF TO PRESENT WE'VE GOT, UM, ANDREW AND LARISSA. 
          THANK YOU. 
          GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. 
          UM, THE SECOND ITEM BEFORE TONIGHT IS FOR, UH, TEXT AMENDMENT TO THE RANCHO ROYAL BUSINESS PARK, PCD. 
          UM, 
          [01:25:01]
THIS IS TO ADD THE OUTDOOR STORAGE RECREATIONAL USE, UM, AS A PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE. 
          UM, THIS IS A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT ONLY. 
          THERE'S NO PHYSICAL DEVELOPMENT PROPOSED AS PART OF THIS ACTION. 
          UM, SO TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO, UM, DO A, A BRIEF PROJECT OVERVIEW, UM, AND THEN PROVIDE THE PCD CONTEXT, LOCATION, THE PARCELS THAT WOULD BE AFFECTED. 
          UM, FROM THERE, WE'LL GO THROUGH THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT ITSELF, EXPLAIN WHY STAFF RECOMMENDED THE PERMANENT ACCESSORY USE CLASSIFICATION. 
          UM, WE'LL COVER PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, UM, WE'RE PROPOSING TO ENSURE COMPATIBILITY WITH THE SURROUNDING DEVELOPMENT. 
          UM, AND WE'LL ALSO REVIEW THE GENERAL PLAN IZO FINDINGS AS WELL AS ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW. 
          AND, UM, IT SHOULD BE A, A QUICK PRESENTATION BEFORE YOU TONIGHT. 
          UM, SO TONIGHT THE REQUEST WAS, UH, TO AMEND THE RANCHO ROYAL BUSINESS PARK, PCD TO ALLOW THAT OUTDOOR RRY STORAGE, UM, AS A PERMITTED USE. 
          UH, THE PRIMARY SUBJECT PARCEL IS THE 85 CORONA ROAD, BUT OF COURSE, THIS WOULD TAKE EFFECT OVER THE WHOLE ENTIRE PCD. 
          UM, THE OUTDOOR STORAGE WOULD BE THAT ACCESSORY USE, UM, TO A PERMITTED USE IN THE PCD. 
          UM, THE AMENDMENT WOULD ALSO INCORPORATE A NEW SECTION N WHICH, UM, PROVIDES DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, UM, DEFINES THE USE AND, UM, OPERATIONAL MANAGEMENT REQUIREMENTS, UM, COVERING SECURITY, RECORD KEEPING, UH, THE PROHIBITION, ONSITE HABITATION AND VEHICLE SERVICING. 
          UM, SO THE MAP HERE IS, UM, SHOWING THE PCD PARCELS IN TURQUOISE THERE. 
          UM, IT'S LOADED, LOCATED ON THE NORTHERN PORTION OF THE CITY, GENERALLY BETWEEN PETALUMA RIVER TO THE WEST AND HIGHWAY 1 0 1 TO THE EAST. 
          THE PC IS TRANSECTED BY INDUSTRIAL AVENUE. 
          UM, THE PCD INCLUDES 59 PARCELS FRONTING INDUSTRIAL AVE. 
          UM, THE MAJORITY 44 PARCELS ARE CONDOMINIUM UNITS. 
          UM, SO WITHIN THE PRIMARY BUILDING THERE ARE, UM, CONDOS THAT MAKE UP THOSE PARCELS. 
          UH, THERE ARE ALSO FIVE TRADITIONALLY DEVELOPED BUSINESS PARK PARCELS, UM, AND ONE SONOMA COUNTY OFFICE OF EDUCATIONAL PARCEL, UM, USED AS A A SMALL ALTERNATIVE HIGH SCHOOL. 
          AND THEN THE SEVEN CITY-OWNED PARCELS ALONG THE RIVER THAT ARE PART OF THE DENMAN REACH FLOOD TERRACING PROJECT. 
          UM, THE TWO PARCELS THAT DO NOT HAVE FRONTAGE ON INDUSTRIAL AVENUE ARE THE 1118 AUTO CENTRAL DRIVE, UM, WHICH IS THE CURRENT STORAGE FACILITY AND 85 CORONA ROAD. 
          YOU CAN SEE THEY'RE SEPARATED BY THIS PARCEL HERE THAT'S NOT PART OF THE PCD. 
          UM, THE PCD UM, DOES HAVE A LARGE MAJORITY THAT IS IN THE FLOODPLAIN COMBINING DISTRICT. 
          UM, SO THERE ARE SPECIFIC STANDARDS, UM, THAT RELATE TO THAT AS WELL IN THE PCD AMENDMENT. 
          UM, SO THIS SLIDE IS JUST TO EXPLAIN, UM, STAFF'S THINKING AND IN, AND THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST THAT THIS USE BE A PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE. 
          UM, GENERALLY THERE ARE, UM, THREE TYPES OF USES. 
          UM, IN LAND USE PLANNING. 
          THERE'S THE PERMITTED BY RIGHT USE, A CONDITIONAL USE, AND A PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE. 
          UM, THOSE PER PERMIT PERMITTED, UH, THOSE BY RIGHT PERMITTED USES, UM, ARE MINISTERIAL APPROVALS. 
          UM, IF THE STANDARDS ARE MET, THE CITY MUST APPROVE THEM. 
          THERE'S NO PUBLIC HEARING, THERE'S NO SECRET REVIEW. 
          UM, EXAMPLES IN THE CURRENT, UH, RETRO OR PCD INCLUDE MANUFACTURING, WAREHOUSING, AND MINI STORAGE. 
          UM, THE CONDITIONAL USES, UM, REQUIRE, UM, STAFF SOMETIMES A PUBLIC HEARING, OTHERWISE, UM, DETERMINATION BY THE PLANNING MANAGER. 
          UH, SECRET REVIEW, UM, ALLOWS THE CITY TO IMPOSE CONDITIONS TO ADDRESS COMPATIBILITY CONCERNS. 
          UM, EXAMPLES OF IN THE PCD INCLUDE METAL FABRICATION SHOPS AND COMMERCIAL RECREATIONAL FACILITIES. 
          UM, AND THEN THE ACCESSORY USE IS ALLOWED ONLY IN CONJUNCTION WITH AN APPROVED PRIMARY USE AND MUST REMAIN SUBORDINATE AND INCIDENTAL TO THE PRIMARY USE APPROVAL IS MINISTERIAL. 
          WHEN STANDARDS ARE MET, NO PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED. 
          UM, STEPH RECOMMENDED THE ACCESSORY USE CLASSIFICATION FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS. 
          UH, FIRST PREDICTABILITY, UH, THE BUY RIGHT APPROACH PROVIDES CERTAINTY AND CONSISTENCY FOR, UM, PROPERTY OWNERS AND APPLICANTS. 
          UH, SECOND COMPLIANCE BASED REVIEW. 
          WHEN ALL OBJECTIVE STANDARDS ARE MET, AN APPROVAL IS MINISTERIAL. 
          [01:30:01]
AND THEN THIRD, UM, ACCESSORY CLASSIFICATION LIMITS THE SCALE AND INTENSITY OF THE RV STORAGE BY TYING IT TO AN EXISTING PRIMARY USE. 
          UM, THIS PREVENTS LARGE STANDALONE RV STORAGE FACILITIES, WHICH WOULD BE, UM, SOMEWHAT OUT OF CHARACTER FOR THE PCD. 
          UM, AND THIS IS A, A SLIDE SHOWING THE PRIMARY, UH, PERFORMANCE STANDARDS THAT ARE IN THE PCD AMENDMENT RELATED TO THE RV STORAGE USE. 
          UM, THEY INCLUDE THE SETBACK, UM, MINIMUMS, LANDSCAPE BUFFERS, SCREENINGS, LIGHTING, OPERATIONAL HOURS THAT WE'VE PREVIOUSLY TALKED ABOUT, UM, NUISANCE MITIGATION SUCH AS IDLING OF ENGINES AND GENERATOR USE, UM, IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CITY NOISE ORDINANCE, UM, MANAGEMENT REQUIREMENTS LIKE SECURITY RECORD KEEPING, AND THEN VEHICLE CONDITION, WHICH ALSO THE APPLICANT, UH, DISCUSSED ON THEIR REQUIREMENTS FOR THE VEHICLES PARKED ON THEIR PROPERTY. 
          AND THE, THE ITEM WE HEARD BEFORE THIS INCORPORATED ALL OF THESE, UM, PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, AND IT WAS, UH, WRITTEN TO USE THAT PROJECT AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE WOULD WANT TO SEE IN A USE LIKE THIS. 
          UM, SO AGAIN, THIS, UH, IS A PROJECT EXAMPLE, WAS THE 85 CORONA ROAD. 
          UM, IT IS A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE IN THIS PCD BEING THAT IT'S NOT FRONTING ON INDUSTRIAL. 
          UM, IT DID HAVE AN EXISTING ASSEMBLY OCCUPANCY CLASSIFI CLASSIFICATION, BUT IT'S, UM, WOULD BE CHANGED TO THIS MINI STORAGE AND RV STORAGE, OUTDOOR USE. 
          UM, THE AMENDMENT IS LIMITED IN SCOPE. 
          UM, NEARLY ALL THE PCE PARCELS ARE ALREADY DEVELOPED. 
          VERY FEW PARCELS REMAIN VACANT, AND THOSE ARE CITY OWNED PARCELS. 
          UM, SO NO DEVELOPMENT WOULD TAKE PLACE ON THOSE. 
          UM, AND THEN THE TREE CANOPY LANDSCAPING ARE STANDARDS THAT ARE WRITTEN INTO THE PCD AMENDMENT. 
          AND I ALSO SAW THOSE, UM, IMPLEMENTED WITH THE PROJECT IN THE ITEM NUMBER ONE TONIGHT. 
          UM, THOSE INCLUDE, UM, RV PARKING CONFIGURATION LIKE INTERIOR TO THE, UH, LOT LANDSCAPING ISLANDS WERE NOT FEASIBLE IN THIS CASE, UM, WHICH IS A TYPICAL SPAR STANDARD. 
          UM, SO THE LANDSCAPING, UM, WAS KIND OF PUSHED TO THE, THE PERIMETER OF THE PROPERTY TO SCREEN AND PROVIDE, UM, NOISE ATTENUATION. 
          AND THEN FOR FINDINGS, UM, WE'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE THE GENERAL PLAN FINDINGS, UM, WHICH, UM, INCLUDE RANGE OF LAND USES FLEXIBILITY AND INNOVATION, UM, FOR THOSE TWO GENERAL PLAN POLICIES. 
          AND THEN, UM, THE FINDINGS FROM THE PCD AMENDMENT SECTION OF THE IZO, WHICH IS SECTION 19. 
          UM, SO THOSE FINDINGS INCLUDE THOROUGHFARE, ADEQUACY, UNIFIED ARRANGEMENT WITH EXISTING PCD, UM, THE NE NATURAL AND SCENIC QUALITIES, UM, PUBLIC WELFARE IN GENERAL INTENT. 
          UM, THERE'S MORE DETAIL IN THE STAFF REPORT THAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU ON ALL THOSE FINDINGS. 
          AND THEN THE CQA EXEMPTION, WHICH WE BRIEFLY TALKED ABOUT AS WELL, WHICH IS, UH, 15 3 0 1, WHICH IS EXISTING FACILITIES EXEMPTION AND THE COMMON SENSE EXEMPTION. 
          UM, IN THAT, THERE'S, UH, THE ACTIVITY WOULD BE EITHER ON EXISTING PARKING SPACES OR PARKING LOTS, OR PROPOSED NEW PARKING LOTS, UM, WHICH COULD EITHER BE SIMPLY A PARKING LOT TO BEGIN WITH OR PARK FOR RV STORAGE. 
          SO, UM, THE, THE POSSIBILITY OF THE ACTIVITY HAD NO, UM, SIGNIFICANCE. 
          AND THEN THE FUTURE PROJECT REVIEW TONIGHT'S, UM, IS TEXT AMENDMENT, UM, DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY APPROVAL OF ANY PHYSICAL DEVELOPMENT. 
          UM, ANY FUTURE DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE A ASSOCIATED WITH RV STORAGE, INCLUDING PAVING, FENCING, LIGHTING MAY BE SUBJECT TO SEPARATE SITE PLAN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW. 
          AND IN THAT, UH, SQL REVIEW WOULD BE REQUIRED AS WELL IF SPAR WAS PART OF THE PROJECT APPROVALS. 
          AND THEN THE RECOMMENDATION IS, UH, TO APPROVE THE RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING TO CITY COUNCIL, UH, ADOPTING OF A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO THE RANCHO ROYAL BUSINESS PARK, BCD, TO ADD OUTDOOR RECREATIONAL RV STORAGE AS A PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE SUBJECT TO THOSE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS IN SECTION N OF THE PCD AMENDMENT. 
          UM, AND THEN THE NEXT STEPS WOULD BE TO, UM, 
          [01:35:02]
TAKE THAT, UH, RESOLUTION TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          AND THEN, UM, 30 DAYS AFTER APPROVAL THERE, IT WOULD BE, UM, EFFECTIVE. 
          AND THAT'S THE END OF MY, UH, PRESENTATION. 
          HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH. 
          UM, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'VE GOT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE APPLICANT TO PRESENT IF THEY WOULD LIKE, AND THEN WE'LL GO TO QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION. 
          WELCOME BACK. 
          WELCOME. 
          UH, I'LL JUST SAVE YOU ALL SOME TIME, YOU KNOW WHO I AM AND, UH, WHAT I'M HERE FOR. 
          SO IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER 'EM AND, AND FILL IN WITH ANYTHING. 
          SO THANK YOU. 
          OKAY, COMMISSIONER, QUESTIONS ON MEETING ITEM TWO I. 
          OKAY, THEN LET'S MOVE ON OVER TO PUBLIC COMMENT. 
          THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO COMMENT ON THIS ITEM. 
          PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON. 
          IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE SO ALREADY, PLEASE FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD AND BRING IT TO THE CLERK. 
          HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING CLERK? YEAH, WE RECEIVED, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING, ALL OF WHICH HAVE BEEN POSTED ONLINE FOR REVIEW. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ANY IN, IN THE HOUSE? NONE IN THE HOUSE. 
          AND, OKAY. 
          SORRY, I ACTUALLY GOT CONFUSED WITH THE MEETING ITEMS WE RECEIVED NO PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR NO PUBLIC COMMENT FROM MEETING A NAME TOO, AND NOBODY IN PERSON EITHER. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, THEN WE'LL CLOSE, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT AND THE PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSIONERS FOR CONSIDERATION COMMENTS AND A MOTION TO VOTE. 
          COMMISSIONER NO KNOW, SO I INDICATED EARLIER THAT THE HOURS OF OPERATION FOR THE PLANNED COMMUNITY DISTRICT, UM, MIGHT BE AN ISSUE. 
          UH, I THINK THE PROPOSED HOURS OF OPERATION WOULD BE 6:00 AM TO 10:00 PM IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH. 
          RIGHT. 
          THAT'S CORRECT. 
          SO, SO THE, UM, IN THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT FOR A HOURS OF ACCESS WOULD BE LIMITED TO SIX, UH, FROM 6:00 AM TO 10:00 PM MM-HMM . 
          UH, THAT WOULD APPLY NOT JUST TO THE WASATCH SELF STORAGE PHASE TWO PROJECT, BUT ALSO ANY, ANY OTHER, UH, ANY OTHER RV OUTDOOR STORAGE IN THE AREA. 
          SO IT IS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER DURING, DURING THE PRESENTATION, I THOUGHT OF THAT, THAT THERE, THERE MIGHT BE OTHER LOCATIONS WHERE THE USE COULD BE ESTABLISHED, WHERE IT WOULDN'T, UH, BE A FACTOR, RIGHT? ONE OF THE, THE TROUBLES THAT I HAVE HERE IS THAT, UM, AS, AS THE STAFF REPORT IDENTIFIES THAT THERE'S A COMMUNITY NEED FOR, UM, RV STORAGE FACILITIES, UH, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THERE'S COMMUNITY NEED IS THAT OWNERS OF RVS WILL, UM, UH, I, I MAY NOT SAY THIS AS WELL AS THE STAFF REPORT DID, BUT BURDEN THEIR, THEIR NEIGHBORS WITH INAPPROPRIATE, UH, ON STREET RV STORAGE OR OTHER USE OF THEIR RV IN A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY OR ON THEIR PROPERTY. 
          UM, AND THEN THE NEED FOR THIS FACILITY IS FOR THOSE OWNERS TO STORE THEIR RVS, EITHER THIS FACILITY OR SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE, IN THE DISTRICT. 
          UM, I HAVE SORT OF LOW CONFIDENCE BASED ON THAT, THAT THESE OWNERS ARE GONNA RESPECT THE NEIGHBORS FOR THE, OF THE RV STORAGE FACILITY WITH THEIR USE OF THEIR RVS AT THE NEW STORAGE SITE DURING THESE HOURS OF OPERATION. 
          UM, ESPECIALLY WHEN STAFF AREN'T PRESENT, UH, TO ENFORCE, YOU KNOW, NO GENERATORS. 
          UM, SO I, I HAVE A, A, A REQUEST AND PERHAPS OTHER COMMISSIONERS CAN JOIN ME IN RESTRICTING THIS 6:00 AM TO 10:00 PM HOURS OF OPERATION WINDOW TO A MORE APPROPRIATELY SUPERVISED WINDOW WHEN THESE RESTRICTIONS CAN BE ENFORCED BY SOMEONE ON SITE RATHER THAN A NEIGHBOR WHO'S BEING AFFECTED. 
          SO THAT'S MY, THAT'S MY CONCERN, IS THAT, UH, THE UNSUPERVISED USE OF RV STORAGE BY THE CLIENTS WHOSE DEMONSTRATED DISREGARD FOR NEIGHBORS CREATES 
          [01:40:01]
THE NEED FOR THIS AMENDMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE. 
          THERE'S A BIT OF A LINKAGE THERE FOR ME IN MY MIND. 
          SO I, I FULLY UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR COMMENTS, COMMISSIONER. 
          THE, AND, AND AGAIN, IF, IF WE CHANGE THESE HOURS OF OPERATION TO SAL FOR THE, THE POTENTIAL ISSUE AT 85 CORONA, BECAUSE BECAUSE THESE HOURS OF OPERATION ARE IN A ZONING TAX AMENDMENT, THEY WOULD APPLY TO ANY OTHER, UM, ESTABLISHMENT OF THE USE IN THE PCD. 
          SO, SO THERE'S THAT TO CONSIDER. 
          THE OTHER OPTION IS TO CONVERT IT TO A, UM, A DISCRETIONARY ACCESSORY USE AND REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPROVAL PRIOR TO ESTABLISHING IT. 
          AND THROUGH THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT PROCESS, THEN YOU COULD LIMIT THE HOURS OF OPERATION TO BE RESPONSIVE TO THE RESIDENTIAL USE A ADJACENT TO 85 CORONA THAT THAT WOULD SOLVE FOR THIS PCD. 
          UM, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE AT THIS POINT, UH, IS BECAUSE THE ZONING ORDINANCE, THE ALLOWABLE LAND USES WHERE OUTDOOR RV STORAGE AND WHERE SELF STORAGE ARE ALLOWED IN THE STANDARD ZONING DISTRICTS ARE VERY LIMITED. 
          IN FACT, THAT'S WHY WE FIND SELF-STORAGE BEING ESTABLISHED IN THIS PCD BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THE FEW PCDS WHERE SELF STORAGE CAN BE ESTABLISHED. 
          THAT WAS A POLICY DECISION THAT WAS MADE BY THE CITY, UM, SOMEWHERE IN THE MID TWO THOUSANDS, UM, PERHAPS WITH THE, THE LAST UPDATE TO THE IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          SO WE DO RECOGNIZE THAT, UM, THAT WE GET A LOT OF INQUIRIES ABOUT ESTABLISHING SELF STORAGE USES. 
          WE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS DEMAND FOR THEM. 
          I THINK THAT'S RELATED TO, UM, IN PART TO, UH, NEW RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT MIGHT HAVE SMALLER SQUARE FOOTAGE, UH, HIGHER DENSITY WHERE THERE'S NOT AS MUCH, UM, ABILITY TO STORE ONSITE. 
          SO YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THOSE SOURCE SELF STORAGE FACILITIES. 
          BUT THEN IT ALSO COULD BE RELATED TO, UM, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR, SOME OF OUR SMALL LOT SUBDIVISIONS WHERE WE DON'T HAVE QUITE AS MUCH, UM, ONSITE ABILITY TO PARK RV. 
          SO I DO THINK THAT THERE'S OTHER POLICIES THAT THE CITY HAS PURSUED THAT HAVE RESULTED IN THIS COMING BEFORE US IN THIS MANNER. 
          UM, IN PART THAT WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE AS WE DEVELOPED THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT, WE DID THINK FORWARD TO, UH, THE FORTHCOMING ZONING CODE UPDATE AND THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE CITY MAY WANT TO CONSIDER, UM, UM, ALLOWING SELF STORAGE AND ALLOWING OUR OUTDOOR RV STORAGE. 
          AND SO A LOT OF THE SECTION N STANDARDS ARE MODELED, SORT OF LOOKING FORWARD TO HOW WE MIGHT WANT TO EFFECTIVELY IMPLEMENT AN OUR OUTDOOR RV STORAGE, UM, LAND USE, UH, IN THE FUTURE, ALL OF THAT FOR SOME CONTEXT. 
          IT DOESN'T REALLY RESPOND TO YOUR QUESTION OTHER THAN TO SAY THAT AS, AS THE WAY THAT THIS IS PRESENTED AS A PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE WITH HOURS OF ACCESS LIMITED TO, TO MODIFY THIS ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT BECAUSE OF ONE PARTICULAR SITE WHEN NONE OF THE OTHER SITES IN THE PCD HAVE RESIDENTIAL USES ADJACENT TO THEM. 
          I, I DON'T THINK THAT I WOULD BE MORE RESTRICTIVE BY MODIFYING THE HOURS OF OPERATION. 
          I THINK THEN WHAT, WHAT THE COMMISSION SHOULD CONSIDER IS GOING TO A, A CONDITIONAL USE APPROACH AND THEN REQUIRING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ESTABLISH AN ACCESSORY USE THAT WOULD THEN ALLOW YOU TO MORE SPECIFICALLY, UM, CONTROL HOURS OF OPERATION. 
          I, I APPRECIATE THE CONCERN THAT COMMISSIONER NOELL RAISES THAT, UM, THE FOLKS WHO ARE STORING THEIR RVS, UM, MIGHT NOT ABIDE BY THE RESTRICTIONS. 
          THAT SAID, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 18 RECREATIONAL VEHICLES, AND I'D BE CURIOUS TO HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT WHAT REPERCUSSIONS THERE WOULD BE FOR A, UH, UNSCRUPULOUS AND, UH, PERHAPS VIOLATING, UH, NON-COMPLIANT THANK YOU. 
          UM, A NON-COMPLIANT, UH, LEASE. 
          YES. 
          NO, I, I APPRECIATE THAT QUESTION. 
          THAT'S A, A VERY VALID CONCERN. 
          UM, SO ONE THING THAT I CAN SAY WITH THE, THE HOURS OF 
          [01:45:01]
OPERATION, JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON IT, THE INTENT IS TO APPEAL TO THOSE THAT ARE IN OFF WORK HOURS OR TYPICAL OFF WORK HOURS THAT THEY CAN ACCESS THEIR RV UNIT. 
          THE INTENTION IS NOT TO BE A NUISANCE ON THE NEIGHBORS AT THAT TIME. 
          SO WE'RE, WE'RE OPEN TO WHAT'S REASONABLE WITH THAT. 
          YOU BRING UP A VERY GOOD POINT AS FAR AS HOW TO CONTROL THAT ACCESS WHEN THAT MANAGER IS NOT ON SITE. 
          ANYBODY WHO IS ACCESSING THE SITE WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE SECURITY KEYPADS THAT WE HAVE ON SITE, AND THOSE ARE RESTRICTED. 
          SO IT, IT LEGITIMATELY LOCKS THEM OUT FROM THOSE HOURS SO WE CAN, WE CAN PUNCH INTO THE SOFTWARE THAT YOU CANNOT ACCESS IT AT 6:00 AM OR AFTER 10:00 PM AND THEY CANNOT, THEIR, THEIR KEY CODE NO LONGER WORKS OUTSIDE OF THOSE HOURS. 
          SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO ESSENTIALLY BREAK IN IN ORDER TO, TO ACCESS THAT AND TO, TO VIOLATE THAT STANDARD SO WE CAN CONTROL THAT IN A SOFTWARE MANNER. 
          UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS TO RESOLVE THAT, THAT QUESTION, BUT THE INTENTION IS, IS IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT'S UNREASONABLE WITH THOSE PROPOSED HOURS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE OPEN TO THAT, BUT WE JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO APPEAL TO THE, THE CUSTOMERS. 
          AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AS WE'VE GONE THROUGH THESE VARIOUS USES, WE, WE MET WITH VARIOUS STAFF AT THE PRE-APPLICATION MEETING, UM, ABOUT YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF AGO. 
          AND THIS USE WAS PROPOSED AND THERE WAS NOTED THAT THERE WAS A NEED IN THE COMMUNITY. 
          THERE'S A LOT OF GROUPS THAT ARE USING KIND OF, I GUESS, AN UNAPPROVED USE AND, AND FINDING A VACANT LOT AND PARKING RVS. 
          SO THAT WAS THE INTENTION IS TO TRY TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY THAT WE CAN CONTROL THAT AND DO IT IN A MANNER THAT'S CONDUCIVE TO THE COMMUNITY AND NOT IN A HINDRANCE TO ANYBODY AROUND. 
          BUT, UH, UH, HOPEFULLY THAT RESOLVES THE CONCERNS, BUT WE CAN RESTRICT THAT ACCESS PHYSICALLY WITHOUT THE MANAGER ON SITE. 
          SO I'M CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE ANY INSIGHT, AND MAYBE THIS IS MORE OF A, A, A STORE QUEST, WHICH I UNDERSTAND IS A THIRD PARTY QUESTION, BUT IF YOU KNOW CODE NUMBER 5 2 5 0, IS THERE PUNCHED IN THEIR CODE AT 9:00 PM AND THERE'S A POLICE REPORT FOR NINE 30, YOU KNOW, LOUD MUSIC AND GENERATOR, DOES THAT PARKING SPOT GET THE BOOT, GET CITED? YES. 
          GET ? YES. 
          WE, WE CAN. 
          WE, THEY ARE MONTH TO MONTH LEASES. 
          MM. 
          AND THE, THE GOOD THING ABOUT THAT IS WE DO HAVE THAT ABILITY TO RESTRICT IF WE HAVE, I DON'T KNOW THE BEST WAY TO PUT IT. 
          IF WE HAVE UNDESIRABLE, UM, TENANTS IN THE BUILDING, AND WE DO NEED THAT ARE NOT OBEYING BY BY CERTAIN STANDARDS, THERE'S VARIOUS OTHER ONES THAT I'M SURE YOU'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH, WITH SELF STORAGE THAT WE, WE NEED TO WORK AROUND AND, AND PROHIBIT DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES TAKING PLACE IN, IN THESE FACILITIES. 
          THOSE ARE PART OF THE LEASE. 
          AND THOSE KEY CODES ARE SPECIFIC TO A CERTAIN TENANT TO WHERE THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHO'S IN AT WHAT TIME AND WHAT TIME THEY'RE LEAVING THE FACILITY. 
          AND IF THEY ARE NOT ABIDING BY THOSE, THEN UM, THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE LEASE IS TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO COUNCIL MEMBER BARN. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, I THINK THAT I'M NOT SO WORRIED ABOUT PEOPLE COMING AND GOING OUTSIDE OF HOURS BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE GATES ARE CONTROLLED. 
          THE USE OF GENERATORS AND THINGS LIKE THAT DOES CONCERN ME A LITTLE BIT, BUT I DON'T THINK WITH 18, UM, AND HONESTLY, THIS IS A HUGE NEED IN THE CITY , LIKE WE HEAR IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN WHENEVER WE BRING UP THE PARKING ORDINANCE, UM, WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING FORWARD SAYING, THERE'S NO PLACE TO, TO STORE MY STUFF. 
          SO, UM, I, I THINK I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING THIS, I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE EMPTY PARKING SPACES IN THESE LOTS ACTUALLY LOOK AT CONVERTING. 
          SO I'M, I'M HAPPY WITH THAT. 
          AND FOR THAT REASON, I DON'T WANNA MAKE IT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. 
          UM, I'D LIKE TO JUST MAKE IT SOMETHING THAT IS MUCH MORE STREAMLINED AND, YOU KNOW, I TRUST THE, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE REVIEWING PLAN SETS AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO MAKE THE DECISION. 
          AND IF THERE IS A PROBLEM, WE CAN APPEAL IT, BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD ADD MORE PROCESS AND MORE COST TO, UM, TRYING TO OPEN UP THIS NEED THAT IS REALLY NEEDED IN THE CITY. 
          THANK YOU FOR THAT FURTHER COMMENTARY OR PERHAPS A MOTION TO VOTE. 
          YEAH, I, I, I HEAR WHAT, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE IS SAYING ABOUT THE NEED, AND I AGREE, JUST BASED ON MY, MY OWN EXPERIENCE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, THAT THERE IS A NEED FOR RV PARKING, UM, I DO FIND IT UNREASONABLE FOR THE NEIGHBOR TO EXPERIENCE ACCESS AND USE OF THE RV STORAGE, YOU KNOW, BEFORE SUNRISE AND AFTER SUNSET, UH, ON AN ONGOING BASIS. 
          AND IT, IT DOESN'T 
          [01:50:01]
SEEM REASONABLE TO ME, UM, EVEN FOR, YOU KNOW, TO, TO HAVE SOMEBODY BE ABLE TO ACCESS IN A STORED RV AT 6:00 AM IN THE MORNING. 
          UM, SO I, I, I, MY MY CONCERN IS SORT OF NOT ADDRESSED. 
          UM, AND I ALSO DON'T WANT TO GUM UP THE WORKS WITH CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS AND FURTHER PROCESS AND EXPENSE. 
          UM, SO I'M, I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF, OF, OF DOING THAT. 
          WOULD SEVEN TO NINE BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME? BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE ARE LIKE, LIKE IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE, IT'S A BOAT, FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT? YOU GO UP TO THE LAKE, YOU COME BACK TO THE LAKE ON SUNDAY EVENING, YOU GET BACK AND IT'S EIGHT AT NIGHT, AND YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO, YOU DON'T WANNA LEAVE IT STORED ON THE STREET, RIGHT? AND THAT'S SORT OF THE, THE USE OF AN RV IS JUST LIKE WEEKEND WARRIORS THAT ARE LIKE GETTING BACK KIND OF LATE. 
          AND SO THE ABILITY TO GO PUT IT IN TO STORAGE, UM, AND A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE WILL, YOU KNOW, I WOULD BE MORE SYMPATHETIC TO SAYING, GO PICK IT UP THE NIGHT BEFORE IF YOU'RE LEAVING IT EARLY IN THE MORNING TO GO TO THE LAKE, YOU KNOW, UM, THAN, UH, BUT I JUST HAVING, I DON'T HAVE AN RV, BUT, UM, IF DID, UM, AND I HAVE BEEN AROUND PEOPLE WHO HAVE BOATS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THERE IS A LOT OF, LIKE, WE'RE LEAVING EARLY AND WE GET BACK LATE TYPE OF THINGS. 
          AND, AND SO, UM, AND THEN ON MONDAY MORNING THEY GOTTA GET UP AND GET TO WORK, RIGHT? SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF THAT GOING ON. 
          I THINK IT'S, IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT BASED ON THE IMAGES WE SAW PREVIOUSLY, THAT ALL OF THIS PARKING IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING. 
          SO IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE HOOKUPS AND THE, AND THE DOORS SLAMMING, RIGHT? RIGHT. 
          BY THE RESIDENTIAL USE. 
          UM, SO I'M A LOT LESS CONCERNED ABOUT THOSE HOURS JUST GIVEN THAT THERE'S 18 VEHICLES. 
          AND EVEN IF, EVEN IF HALF OF THEM COME TO PICK UP THEIR RV AT 6:00 AM ON MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND, I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE SO OBSCENELY LOUD TO THE RESIDENTIAL FOLKS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN MOST CASES YOU'RE TURNING THE KEY AND DRIVING OFF JUST LIKE ANY OTHER NEIGHBOR WOULD IN THEIR BIG TRUCK. 
          AND, AND THEN YOU GET HOME AND THEN YOU'RE PACKING UP ALL YOUR CAMPING GEAR AND WHATEVER IT IS. 
          I MEAN, I'VE GOT NEIGHBORS ACROSS THE STREET WHO HAVE THEIR RECREATIONAL VEHICLE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TAKING OUT THROUGHOUT, UH, THE SEASON AND, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME ACTIVITY, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT ALL THAT MUCH NOISIER THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THEIR CAR, IN MY EXPERIENCE. 
          UM, AND GIVEN THAT IT IS ON THAT OTHER SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, I THINK EVEN A LATE DROP OFF OR EARLY PICKUP IS GONNA HAVE PRETTY MINIMAL IMPACTS TO THE RESIDENTS. 
          AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S BEEN QUITE A LOT OF CONVERSATION THAT IF IT TURNS OUT THAT PEOPLE ARE COMING AND BLASTING MUSIC WHEN THEY PICK UP THE RV AT 6:00 AM THEY CAN, THEY CAN HAVE SOME RECOURSE. 
          MAY I MADAM CHAIR SUPPLEMENT THE DISCUSSION? SURE. 
          HOPEFULLY IN A HELPFUL WAY. 
          UM, I, FIRST I WANT TO ZOOM THE COMMISSION OUT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WHILE THIS, UH, DISCUSSION IS SPURRED BY ONE PARTICULAR PROPERTY OWNER WHO WANTS TO HAVE THIS AS A USE, THE USE NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE ENTIRE ZONE. 
          SO WHETHER THE USE IS APPROPRIATE FOR ANY OTHER LOT IN THE ZONE THAT COULD WANT TO DEVELOP A SIMILAR TYPE OF OPERATION. 
          AND THEN, UM, WHILE WE HAVE THIS APPLICANT TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY MIGHT REGULATE, UM, THE COMPLIANCE WITH THE CONDITIONS ON THIS TYPE OF USE, UM, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY APPLICABLE TO DOWN THE STREET, UH, A RV STORAGE THAT MIGHT EVENTUALLY DEVELOP. 
          UM, HOWEVER, I DO WANT TO REMIND THE COMMISSION THAT THERE ARE WAYS THAT THE CITY CAN ENFORCE WHATEVER CONDITIONS IT IS THAT YOU CHOOSE TO IMPOSE ON THE USE, INCLUDING THROUGH CODE ENFORCEMENT. 
          SO IF, UH, A BUSINESS IS NOT PROPERLY REGULATING THE USE, THEN THAT WOULD BE A STANDARD CODE ENFORCEMENT, UM, TYPE OF ACTION. 
          BUT I ALSO WANNA TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE HOURS OF USE FOR THIS PARTICULAR TYPE OF, UM, USE. 
          IF YOU CHOOSE TO MAKE IT, UH, UH, AN ALLOWABLE USE IN THIS PCD AND THE CONDITIONS THAT YOU IMPOSE ON ANY PARTICULAR USE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE RELATED TO THE IMPACTS OF THAT USE. 
          AND IF YOU ARE PUTTING A CONDITION ON ONE USE AND NOT ON ANOTHER USE, IT NEEDS TO BE BECAUSE THE USE YOU'RE CONDITIONING HAS SOME PARTICULARLY UNIQUE IMPACT THAT YOU'RE ADDRESSING. 
          AND SO IF THE OTHER USES THAT ARE ALLOWED IN THIS ZONE HAVE SIMILAR IMPACTS, BUT YOU'RE NOT PUTTING, UH, RESTRICTIONS ON THE HOURS 
          [01:55:01]
OF OPERATION, THAT COULD BE, UM, IT COULD BE CONSIDERED ARBITRARY, WHICH WOULD POTENTIALLY BE CHALLENGABLE. 
          UH, AND I DO NOTE THAT SOME OF THE ALLOWED USES IN THIS ZONE INCLUDE MANUFACTURING, PACKAGING, WHOLESALE BUSINESSES, UM, THE MINI STORAGE FACILITIES, AND NONE OF THOSE HAVE HOURS OF OPERATION RESTRICTIONS ON THEM. 
          AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE CONDITIONAL USES THAT INCLUDE, UM, HOTEL MOTEL. 
          SO OBVIOUSLY A CONDITIONAL USE WOULD BECOME BEFORE YOU AND YOU COULD CONDITION THAT POTENTIALLY. 
          BUT TO THE EXTENT YOU'RE CONSIDERING HOURS OF OPERATION FOR THIS SPECIFIC STORAGE USE, I WOULD WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TYING THAT TO A PARTICULARLY UNIQUE IMPACT THAT YOU'RE NOT SEEING FROM THESE OTHER PERMITTED USES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          FURTHER COMMENTS OR DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, I'LL MOVE APPROVAL, UH, MOVE TO APPROVE A RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING TO THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPT AN, OR THAT THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPT AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE RANCHO ROYAL BUSINESS PARK PLAN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ZONING DISTRICT REGULATIONS TO ALLOW OUTDOOR RECREATIONAL VEHICLES STORAGE AS A PERMITTED ACCESSORY USE AND MINOR ASSOCIATED ADMINISTRATIVE AMENDMENTS. 
          DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WE'VE GOT A MOTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER BARNELL AND A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER KUSON. 
          IF I COULD PLEASE GET A ROLL CALL VOTE. 
          COMMISSIONER EBNER ABSENT. 
          COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER NEWELL? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER KUSON? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER HILT? YES. 
          ONLINE. 
          CAN YOU STATE IF ANYONE'S IN THE ROOM WITH YOU? I'M SORRY. 
          NO ONE IS IN THE ROOM WITH ME. 
          AWESOME. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COUNCILMAN BARNACLE. 
           AYE, UH, CHAIR MOSES? YES, IT IS APPROVED. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          WITH THAT, WE WILL CLOSE MEETING ITEM ITEM TWO, UM, AND CONTINUE WITH THE AGENDA AFTER A FIVE MINUTE RECESS. 
          YES. 
          THANKS EVERYBODY. 
          LET'S 
          [3.
 Public Hearing – Recommendation to the City of Petaluma Planning Commission to Conduct a Public Hearing and Approve a Resolution Recommending the City Council Adopt an Ordinance Approving a Zoning Text Amendment to Comprehensively Modify Chapter 17 (Tree Preservation) of the Implementing Zoning Ordinance, Making Findings Consistent with IZO Section 25.050 (Amendments), Providing Feedback on Related Tree Issues like Enforcement and Permit Fees and Amendments to PMC Chapter 13.08, and Making Findings that this Action is Categorically Exempt Pursuant to CEQA Guidelines Sections 15307 (Actions by Regulatory Agencies for Protection of Natural Resources) and 15308 (Actions by Regulatory Agencies for Protection of the Environment). THIS MEETING ITEM WAS PUBLISHED ON FRIDAY, MARCH 6, 2026.]
GET OURSELVES INTO MEETING ITEM THREE, A PUBLIC HEARING RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY OF PETALUMA PLANNING COMMISSION TO CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND APPROVE A RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPT AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO COMPREHENSIVELY MODIFY CHAPTER 17 ON TREE PRESERVATION OF THE IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE, MAKING FINDINGS CONSISTENT WITH IZO SECTION 25.050 AMENDMENTS, PROVIDING FEEDBACK ON RELATED TREE ISSUES LIKE ENFORCEMENT AND PERMIT FEES AND AMENDMENTS TO PMC CHAPTER ONE, 3.08, AND MAKING FINDINGS THAT THIS ACTION IS CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT PURSUANT TO CQA GUIDELINES, SECTION 1 5 3 0 7 ACTIONS BY REGULATORY AGENCIES FOR PROTECTION OF NATURAL RESOURCES AND 1 5 3 0 8 ACTIONS BY REGULATORY AGENCIES FOR PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT. 
          THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING AND THEREFORE DOES REQUIRE EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS. 
          SO I WILL LOOK DOWN THE DA AND DO YOU WANNA DISCLOSE THAT YOU'RE ON THE RECORDING AND, UM, SURE. 
          I HAVEN'T HEARD THIS FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY, BUT I AM ON THE CITY'S TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, SO ANY OTHER DISCLOSURES? AND COMMISSIONER? YEAH, COMMISSIONER HILT. 
          YEAH, IN THAT SAME VEIN, I AM ALSO ON THE TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND I'M ONLINE ALONE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          , YOU'RE DOING SO GREAT. 
          COMMISSIONER HILT, WE APPRECIATE THE CONSISTENCY. 
          UH, WE'LL PASS IT ON TO STAFF TO PRESENT. 
          UH, WE'VE GOT HEATHER HEINZ BACK, GOOD EVENING CHAIR AND PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          HEATHER HEINZ, SPECIAL PROJECTS MANAGER WITH THE CITY. 
          UM, I ALSO HAVE WITH ME, UM, BEN ANDERSON, WHO IS THE CITY'S, UH, CONSULTING ARBORIST, UM, WITH URBAN FORESTRY ASSOCIATES, UM, AND HAS BEEN, UM, A PARTNER IN THE WORK ON THIS ORDINANCE, UM, AND WILL BE A PARTNER ON IMPLEMENTING THIS ORDINANCE. 
          SO I'M HAPPY TO HAVE HIM WITH ME TONIGHT TO HELP, UM, ANSWER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS OR ANY BRAINSTORMING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. 
          UM, SO WITH THAT, UM, DIVING 
          [02:00:01]
RIGHT IN, WE ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE TREE PRESERVATION ORDINANCE, UM, PRIMARILY BEING THE IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE, CHAPTER 17. 
          SO TONIGHT'S REVIEW, AS YOU MENTIONED, CHAIR, IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING, SO YOU ARE RECEIVING A STAFF REPORT, RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENT, AND THEN THE CONSIDERATIONS ARE FOR A RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO COMPREHENSIVELY UPDATE IZO CHAPTER 17. 
          UM, ALSO, UM, PROVIDING ANY FEEDBACK REGARDING ASSOCIATED AMENDMENTS THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WILL CONSIDER WITH THE PETALUMA MUNICIPAL CODE CHAPTER 13.08, AND ANY OTHER FEEDBACK REGARDING UPDATES TO ASSOCIATED PERMIT FEES, UM, THAT WAS DISCUSSED, UM, BRIEFLY IN THE STAFF REPORT AND WILL BE PART OF CONSIDERATION, UM, AT A SUBSEQUENT CITY COUNCIL MEETING. 
          SO WE'VE ALL BEEN HERE BEFORE, UM, AND TALKED ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE BEFORE, AND I BELIEVE EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE EVEN IS QUITE, UM, WELL-VERSED IN THIS PROCESS AND THE, UM, BACKGROUND, BUT I AM STILL FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE THAT MIGHT BE TUNING IN AT HOME. 
          JUST GOING TO REMIND US ALL OF A LITTLE BIT OF THE BACKGROUND. 
          SO AN UPDATE TO THE TREE PRESERVATION ORDINANCE HAS BEEN ON THE CITY COUNCIL'S TOP 10 PRIORITY. 
          UM, THIS HAS ALSO BEEN A TOPIC THAT WE'VE HEARD COMMUNITY VOICES, UM, ASKING FOR MORE RECOGNITION OF THE BENEFITS OF A HEALTHY URBAN FOREST, AND ASKING FOR THE CITY TO PRIORITIZE PRESERVATION OF PETALUMA TREE CANOPY. 
          THE TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE HAS BEEN INSTRUMENTAL IN THIS EFFORT, CREATED A ROBUST SET OF RESOURCES, UM, AS A STARTING POINT FOR THE UPDATE TO THIS ORDINANCE. 
          PETALUMA RELIEF HAS BEEN A COMMUNITY PARTNER, UM, CHAMPIONING THIS AND THE CITY, UM, ALONG WITH PETALUMA RELIEF. 
          UM, WE'RE SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING A GRANT FROM CAL FIRE, UM, TO PROVIDE FUNDING BOTH FOR THIS EFFORT AS WELL AS THE URBAN FOREST MASTER PLAN, UM, THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WILL BE CONSIDERING. 
          SO THERE HAS BEEN A NUMBER OF PUBLIC MEETINGS, UM, ON THE TREE PRESERVATION ORDINANCE. 
          THERE WERE TRUE TWO, UM, STUDY SESSIONS WITH THE TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, UH, ONE STUDY SESSION WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          WE'RE BACK TONIGHT FOR A PUBLIC HEARING AND RECOMMENDATION, AND THEN SCHEDULE BE TO BE BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL ON MONDAY OF NEXT WEEK FOR INTRODUCTION OF THE ORDINANCE. 
          THE TOPIC OF TREES HAS ALSO BEEN PART OF DISCUSSIONS AND MEETINGS THAT NOT DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE TREE PRESERVATION ORDINANCE, UM, BUT AS I PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, THE CITY CO CITY COUNCIL GOALS AND OBJECTIVES, UH, THE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE, THERE WAS A LOT OF COMMUNITY DISCUSSION ABOUT POLICIES REGARDING THE URBAN FOREST CANOPY TREE COVERAGE, UM, REGULATIONS, THE URBAN FOREST MASTER PLAN, THE BLUEPRINT FOR CLIMATE ACTION, AND THE URBAN FOREST CANOPY ASSESSMENT, WHICH WAS DONE AS A PRECURSOR TO THE URBAN FOREST MASTER PLAN. 
          SO WHAT THIS ALL HAS KIND OF LAID OUT IS THE COMMUNITY'S VALUES FOR TREES, UM, AND A RANGE OF VALUES THAT, UM, THE COMMUNITY IS SEEKING TO RECOGNIZE, HONOR AND PROTECT. 
          UM, AND THIS LARGELY COMES INTO PLAY WITH THE TREE PRESERVATION ORDINANCE IN TERMS OF PROTECTING THE EXISTING TREES WE HAVE TO THE EXTENT WE CAN. 
          AND, UM, THESE VALUES ARE REPRESENTED IN, UM, THE PURPOSE OF THE ORDINANCE, THE FIRST SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE TO KIND OF RECOGNIZE, UM, THE BROAD, THE BROAD SWEEP OF VALUES THAT, UM, OUR URBAN FOREST, UM, AFFORDS US IN PETALUMA. 
          SO, BECAUSE WE HAVE REVIEWED THE ORDINANCE BEFORE, I'M GONNA DO KIND OF A BRIEF OVERVIEW, AND THEN MOST OF MY PRESENTATION TODAY IS REALLY GONNA BE TALKING IN RESPONSE TO THE FEEDBACK WE GOT FROM PLANNING COMMISSION THE LAST TIME WE WERE HERE. 
          UM, SO THE ORDINANCE THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR PACKET, UM, AS AN EXHIBIT TO THE RESOLUTION IS A CLEAN VERSION OF, UM, THE UPDATED ORDINANCE ALSO AT ATTACHMENT TWO SHOWED, UM, A TRACK CHANGE VERSION THAT SHOWS WHAT CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE SINCE THE LAST TIME THE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEWED AT THEIR STUDY SESSION. 
          SO GIVING BOTH OF THOSE AS BACKGROUND, UM, TO LOOK AT. 
          UM, IN SUMMARY, SOME OF THE KEY MODIFICATIONS THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED. 
          ONE IS THE BROADER APPLICABILITY OF THE CITY'S REGULATIONS, UM, FOR REQUIRING REVIEW AND PERMITS FOR TREES. 
          UM, 
          [02:05:01]
CURRENTLY IT IS A, A LIST OF CERTAIN SPECIES OF TREES. 
          UM, AND THIS IS REALLY A BROADER, UM, APPLICATION, UM, FOR ALL TREES GREATER THAN SIX INCHES. 
          UM, A NEWER EXEMPTION, UM, HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE DRAFT, AND THIS WAS DIRECTLY IN RESPONSE TO PLANNING COMMISSION FEEDBACK. 
          UM, AN EXEMPTION FOR EXISTING DEVELOPED SINGLE FAMILY PARCELS THAT WOULD ALLOW, UM, TREES UP TO 12 INCHES TO BE EXEMPT FROM THE ORDINANCE. 
          AND THIS WAS REALLY IN RESPONSE TO CONCERNS THAT THE REQUIREMENTS, THE REGULATIONS, AND THE TREE PRESERVATION, I'M GONNA SAY CALL IT TPO FOR BREVITY, UM, IN THE TREE, PO COULD BE BURDENSOME ON THE INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER, UM, SINGLE FAMILY HOME, UM, BACKYARD TREES, FRONT YARD TREES. 
          UM, SO THAT EXEMPTION WAS ADDED. 
          UM, THERE ARE A COUPLE OTHER EXEMPTIONS THAT ARE MODIFICATIONS FROM EXISTING, UM, FOR INSTANCE, PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL FOUNDATIONS OR, UM, WHEN, UM, PROXIMITY OF LARGER TREES WHERE IT'S REALLY NOT FOR THE, UM, THE BEST FOR THE HEALTH OF ALL THE TREES, THAT TREES, IT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE TO LOOK AT TREE REMOVAL. 
          UH, ALSO INCLUDED SOME NUISANCE TREE SPECIES, UM, IN THE EXEMPTIONS. 
          UM, THAT'S A CHANGE FROM THE CURRENT TPO. 
          UM, ONE THING THAT THIS ORDINANCE PROPOSES IS A SINGLE TREE REMOVAL PERMIT. 
          CURRENTLY, WE HAVE A BIT OF A CONFLICT AND CONFUSION BETWEEN THE MUNICIPAL CODE AND THE IZO, UM, THAT CREATES CONFUSION INTERNALLY, CREATES CONFUSION, UM, AMONG STAFF WHO'S SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AT THIS, WHAT FINDINGS, WHAT PROCESS. 
          UM, SO WHAT THIS PROPOSES IS TO HAVE A SINGLE TREE REMOVAL PERMIT PROCESS, WHETHER THAT'S TO REMOVE A TREE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, A STREET TREE, UM, A PUBLIC PROPERTY TREE, UM, TO REALLY REMOVE THAT CONFUSION AND CLARIFY THAT PROCESS. 
          THE TPO PROPOSED DPO INCLUDES CLARIFICATION OF REPLACEMENT RATIO REFERENCES, PAYMENT OF AN ENLO FEE. 
          THERE'S EXPANDED DISCUSSION ABOUT PRESERVATION OF TREES AS PART OF A DE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT, UM, WITH ADDITIONAL, UM, FINDINGS THAT NEED TO BE MADE, CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, UM, A CHANGE IN, UM, REVIEW AUTHORITY SO THAT THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE PROJECT INSTEAD OF BEING LOOKED AT SEPARATELY FROM A DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION, UM, REQUIREMENTS FOR TREE PRESERVATION FOR MINISTERIAL PROJECTS, LIMITATIONS ON TREE REMOVAL, ON VACANT PROPERTIES, STANDARDS FOR TREE PRESERVATION AND PROTECTION PLANS TO KIND OF LAY OUT CLEARLY WHAT WE WANT THOSE TO INCLUDE, WHO SHOULD BE PREPARING THOSE. 
          UM, AND THEN CLARIFICATION OF ENFORCEMENT AND PENALTY PROVISION. 
          SO THAT'S A, A BROAD OVERVIEW OF SOME OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT MODIFICATIONS. 
          UM, YOU DO NOT HAVE A RED LINE OF THE EXISTING ORDINANCE IN THE NEW ONE BECAUSE IT WOULD DRIVE YOU CRAZY. 
          THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T REALLY, YOU CAN'T LOOK AT 'EM THAT WAY. 
          I TRIED. 
          UM, AND IT JUST, THERE'S, IT'S, THERE'S SO MUCH CHANGE, UM, REORGANIZATION THAT IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO DO IT LIKE THAT. 
          SO IT REALLY IS A COMPREHENSIVE UPDATE. 
          UM, SO WHEN WE WERE BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION PREVIOUSLY, UM, AT A STUDY SESSION, THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT, UM, THE REGULATORY CONTEXT OF THE TPO AND HOW DO WE FACILITATE A CLEAR AND EFFICIENT PERMITTING PROCESS. 
          SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WANTED TO MORE CLARITY ON, UM, WHAT'S THE PROCESS? HOW'S THIS GONNA WORK? HOW ARE WE GONNA IMPLEMENT THIS? UM, ANOTHER THEME OF COMMENTS WAS AROUND LIMITING THE BURDEN ON INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS. 
          UH, HOW DO WE INCREASE EDUCATION AND RESOURCE AVAILABILITY TO IMPLEMENT THE TPO, AND THEN ALSO MAKE WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WERE APPROPRIATE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS, UM, IN THE TPO. 
          UM, SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS I'M GONNA TOUCH ON IN A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ON WHAT WE DID OR DIDN'T DO AND WHY, AND, OR, UM, EXTRA THINGS WITH EDUCATION THAT MAYBE ISN'T IN THE ORDINANCE, BUT, UM, ARE IS ON OUR, ON OUR TO-DO LIST. 
          SO, UM, I'M GONNA RUN THROUGH THOSE. 
          SO IN TERMS OF PERMITTING, SO CURRENTLY THERE'S DIFFERENT PERMITTING DEPENDING ON PUBLIC OR PRIVATE TREES. 
          THERE'S REALLY MINIMAL REGULATORY OVERSIGHT FOR TREE REMOVAL IF IT'S NOT ASSOCIATED WITH A DEVELOPMENT PERMIT. 
          [02:10:01]
SO IN TERMS OF SOMEBODY WHO JUST WANTS TO MOVE, REMOVE A TREE, SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO REMOVE EVEN A STREET TREE. 
          UM, SO THE NEW PERMITTING, AS I MENTIONED, THERE'S A SINGLE TREE REMOVAL PERMIT FOR PRIVATE OR PUBLIC PROPERTY, INCLUDING STREET TREES. 
          THERE'S REGULATORY OVERSIGHT FOR ALL TREE REMOVALS GREATER THAN SIX INCHES, WITH THE EXCEPTION THERE BEING PRIMARILY BEING FOR SINGLE FAMILY PROPERTIES, UM, A TREE UP TO 12 INCHES. 
          AND THEN THERE'S A LOT OF ENHANCEMENTS OF THAT REVIEW PROCESS FOR DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, WANTING TO START IT EARLY, HAVE IT BE PART OF THE DESIGNING OF A PROJECT TO MAXIMIZE TREE PRESERVATION WHERE POSSIBLE. 
          UM, AND ADDITIONAL FINDINGS, AS I PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, IN TERMS OF PROCESS, UM, CURRENTLY THERE'S LIMITED DISCRETION. 
          SO THERE'S LIMITED PROCESS FOR MANY TREE REMOVALS. 
          STREET TREES IS ON ITS OWN KIND OF THING, UNDER THE MUNICIPAL CODE THAT REQUIRES THREE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS TO REVIEW IT, UM, THROUGH THE ENCROACHMENT PRO PERMIT PROCESS. 
          THAT CREATES A LOT OF CONFUSION. 
          UM, IN THE INTERNAL, UM, PROCESSES, THERE'S MINIMAL REQUIREMENTS FOR FINDINGS OR CONDITIONS. 
          SO AGAIN, OUR, OUR NEW PERMITTING, THERE'S CLARIFICATION OF PROCESS. 
          UM, THERE'S UTILIZATION OF A CONSULTING ARBORIST FOR SUPPORT, UM, BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE AN IN-HOUSE, UM, OUR ARBORIST OR URBAN FORESTER WITH THE CITY CURRENTLY. 
          UM, THE PROCESS FOR TREE PERMITS IS THAT THE APPROVED TREE REMOVAL PERMIT IS A REQUIREMENT OF THE ENCROACHMENT PERMIT APPLICATION. 
          UM, SO INSTEAD OF STARTING WITH THE ENCROACHMENT PERMIT AND THEN SENDING IT OUT TO THREE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS, IT WILL BE YOU, YOU LOOK AT THE TREE REMOVAL THAT'S BEING REQUESTED, AND IF IT'S APPROVED, YOU THEN CAN USE THAT AS, UM, SUBMITTAL FOR YOUR ENCROACHMENT PERMIT. 
          ROBUST FINDINGS FOR APPROVAL, EXPANDED CONSIDERATION AS PART OF DEVELOPMENT REVIEW. 
          AND THEN WE ALSO ADDED LANGUAGE, AND I THINK THIS ONE IS OFTEN OVERLOOKED, BUT REALLY IMPORTANT FOR TREE PROTECTION MEASURES AS PART OF BUILDING PERMIT SUBMITTALS WHEN WORK IS BEING DONE IN PROXIMITY TO, TO TREES. 
          SO EVEN IF THERE'S NO TREE BEING PROPOSED TO BE REMOVED, IF THERE'S TRENCHING, IF THERE'S WORK HAPPENING, MAKING SURE THAT THERE ARE BASIC, UM, TREE PROTECTION PROVISIONS ON SITE SO THAT THOSE TREES ARE NOT INCIDENTALLY, UM, DAMAGED. 
          AND THEN FEES, THERE'S VERY MINIMAL FEES. 
          CURRENTLY, UM, PERMIT FEES ARE ONLY THROUGH THE ENCROACHMENT PERMIT PROCESS. 
          THERE'S NO CONSULTATION OPTION IN OUR FEES. 
          THERE'S NO OPTION FOR SELF-REPORTING FOR REPLACEMENT TO KEEP FEES DOWN. 
          WE HAVE, UM, CITATION FEES THAT DATE BACK. 
          I THINK IT'S 2015. 
          2015, AT LEAST A DECADE OLD. 
          UM, THERE'S NO SET IN LIEU FEES, SO WE HAVE SOME LIMITATIONS IN THAT IMPLEMENTATION. 
          SO WE WILL BE TALKING TO CITY COUNCIL ABOUT SOME UPDATES TO THE ASSOCIATED FEES SUCH AS TREE REMOVAL, PERMIT FEE. 
          WE'RE SEEKING TO SET THAT SIMILARLY TO OTHER FLAT FEES THAT THE CITY CURRENTLY HAS, LIKE A FENCE PERMIT, FEE ASSIGNED PERMIT FEE, UM, RECOMMENDING THAT THE, UH, TREE REMOVAL PERMIT WOULD BE SIMILAR TO THAT TO COVER COSTS, BUT TO KEEP, UM, THE COSTS FOR THE APPLICANT LOW AS POSSIBLE. 
          UM, LOOKING TO, UM, CREATE SITE INSPECTION FEES SO THAT PEOPLE HAVE THE OPTION FOR CONSULTATION BEFORE THEY'RE APPLYING FOR A TREE REMOVAL PERMIT, IF, UM, THEY BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. 
          UM, UPDATING THE ADMINISTRATION CITATION FEE AND ESTABLISHING REPLACEMENT, UM, IN LIE FEES. 
          SO I WANTED TO POINT OUT SOME OF THE THINGS FOCUSING ON THE DIFFERENT, THE DIFFERENT REVIEWS. 
          SO FOR INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERS, AS WE'VE MENTIONED, OFFERING THAT SITE VISIT CONSULTATION OPTION, WE ADDED THE EXEMPTION FOR TREES 12 INCHES OR UNDER. 
          UM, WE ALSO HAVE THE EXEMPTION AROUND PROXIMITY TO FOUNDATION OR OTHER TREES ON THE SITE. 
          UM, WE HAVE AN EXEMPTION FOR, UM, AN IMMINENT SITUATION. 
          UM, SO KIND OF TRYING TO THINK ABOUT WHAT ARE THE SITUATIONS FOR, UM, INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERS TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT GETTING KIND OF STUCK IN BUREAUCRACY, UM, FOR, UM, HELP MAINTAINING THEIR TREES. 
          IN THESE CASES, THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR IS THE REVIEW AUTHORITY. 
          UM, WE HAVE, UM, BEEN PLAYING AROUND WITH, UM, FORMAT FOR APPLICATION AND SEEKING TO HAVE THE APPLICATION ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO REALLY FILL IN, HEY, I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO MAKE ONE OF THESE FINDINGS, AND THIS IS WHERE I THINK MY REQUEST IS, IS FITTING IN. 
          SO HAVING, UM, SOME OF THAT IN THE PERMIT 
          [02:15:01]
ALLOWING FOR REPLACEMENT, UM, ONSITE OR AS IN LOUIE, WHICH WAS ANOTHER THING THAT CAME UP WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          UM, RECOGNIZING THAT IF AN INDIVIDUAL SINGLE FAMILY PROPERTY OWNER WAS REMOVING A TREE, THEY MAY NOT WANT TO PLANT ANOTHER TREE ON THEIR SITE. 
          THERE MIGHT BE A REASON THEY'RE REMOVING THEIR TREE AND NOT WANT TO DO THAT. 
          SO GIVING THEM THAT OPTION. 
          AND THEN ALSO WE'RE SEEKING TO ALLOW, UM, THE PERMITS TO ALLOW FOR SELF-CERTIFICATION OF REPLACEMENT. 
          SO SETTING UP A, A PROCESS WHERE IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO, UM, THEY CAN TAKE PICTURES, SUBMIT SAYING, I'VE, I'VE COMPLETED MY, MY REPLACEMENT. 
          HERE'S A PHOTO OF MY 15 GALLON WHATEVER TREE. 
          AND, UM, TO CLOSE OUT THE FILE. 
          UM, WE ALSO KIND OF LOOKED, AND BEN AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS, UM, LOOKING FOR WAYS, UM, TO KEEP PROCESSED DOWN AND KEEP, UM, EXPENSES DOWN FOR INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERS. 
          SO THIS IS SOMEWHAT FLUID, UM, WE'RE STILL WORKING ON IT TO IMPLEMENT, BUT THIS GIVES YOU AN IDEA. 
          SO AN APPLICATION, UH, CONFIRMS THE TREES NOT EXEMPT, SUBMITS THEIR APPLICATION AND THE REQUIRED SUBMITTALS, UM, STAFF WOULD LOOK AT IT, MAKE SURE WE HAVE EVERYTHING WE NEED FORWARD TO THE CONSULTING ARBORISTS FOR A DESK REVIEW. 
          UM, SO JUST KIND OF LOOKING OVER AND GETTING AN IDEA, DETERMINING WHETHER A SITE VISIT IS REQUIRED. 
          UM, THERE ARE SOME TIMES THAT A SITE VISIT WILL NOT BE REQUIRED. 
          THERE WILL BE SOME THAT ARE, IF, UM, A PROPERTY OWNER HAD A PRE-APPLICATION SITE VISIT, THEY VERY LIKELY DO NOT NEED ANOTHER SITE VISIT AS PART OF THEIR PERMIT APPLICATION. 
          UM, SO HAVING SOME FLEXIBILITY AROUND THAT. 
          SO IF A SITE VISIT IS NOT REQUIRED, THEN, UH, A RECOMMENDATION IS ISSUED. 
          IF A SITE VISIT IS REQUIRED, THAT SITE VISIT HAPPENS. 
          UM, UM, AND THEN A RECOMMENDATION IS MADE. 
          THE REVIEW AUTHORITY IS THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, SO THEY'D ISSUE APPROVAL OR DENIAL, AND IF IT'S IMP IMPROVED, THEN THERE WOULD BE A FOLLOW UP STEP TO MAKE SURE THAT REPLACEMENT HAPPENS. 
          SO THAT'S KIND OF HOW THE, UM, PERMIT PROCESS IS COMING TOGETHER. 
          UM, WITH THE, UM, ORDINANCE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION OBVIOUSLY ISN'T, ISN'T ADOPTING FEES. 
          UM, THAT WILL BE SOMETHING, UM, THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WILL BE LOOKING AT. 
          UM, BUT THESE ARE SOME OF THE KIND OF APPROXIMATES AND ESTIMATES WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT. 
          SO A PRE-APPLICATION CONSULT CONSULTATION OR A PERMIT SITE VISIT, UM, THOSE WOULD BOTH BE AROUND $250. 
          UH, LOOKING FOR A TREE REMOVAL PERMIT, UM, FEE OF APPROXIMATELY 380, WHICH LIKE I MENTIONED, IS SIMILAR TO A FENCE PERMIT OR ASSIGNED PERMIT. 
          UM, THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS WE CAN DO IN LIEU FEES. 
          SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE STILL WORKING ON, UM, TO, UM, IT'LL BE BASED ON THE, UM, REQUIRED INCHES THAT NEED TO BE REPLACED. 
          UM, SO THAT, I DON'T HAVE A NUMBER FOR THAT. 
          THIS RANGES BY QUITE A BIT ACROSS DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS. 
          SOME JURISDICTIONS HAVE IT AROUND 500 AND SOME HAVE IT AROUND 2000. 
          SO THERE'S A PRETTY BIG DIFFERENCE, UM, IN DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS. 
          SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT, UM, TO WHAT SHOULD THAT, UM, REPLACEMENT IN LU BE? AND THEN, AS IS IN THE CHAPTER, UM, THE ENFORCEMENT FINES, THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE DRAFT TPO THAT SAYS, UH, REPLA FULL REPLACEMENT VALUE OR $500, WHICHEVER IS MORE, UM, IT AS, AS THE EM ENFORCEMENT FINE. 
          SO SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, BUT MUCH IS SIMILAR FOR STREET TREES. 
          SO AGAIN, WE WOULD OFFER A SITE VISIT CONSULTATION. 
          UM, SOME OF THE EXEMPTIONS THAT MIGHT BE, UH, MORE RELATED TO STREET TREES IS THE EMINENT HAZARDS OR THE EXEMPTION FOR PUBLIC UTILITY PROTECTION. 
          AGAIN, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR IS THE REVIEW AUTHORITY FOR THESE WOULD BE THE SAME TREE PERMIT AS INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER, SAME SORT CERTIFICATION, UM, AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION. 
          UM, THE UPDATED DRAFT SPECIFIES THAT, UH, REPLACEMENT OF STREET TREES NEEDS TO HAPPEN ON SITE AND THAT NO ENLO FEE WOULD BE ALLOWED IN THAT SITUATION. 
          UM, SO THAT IS NOW INCLUDED IN THAT SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE. 
          UM, AND THEN THAT APPROVED PERMIT, UH, WOULD BE PART OF, UM, THE REQUIREMENT FOR AN ENCROACHMENT PERMIT. 
          SO AN ENCROACHMENT PERMIT IS REQUIRED 
          [02:20:01]
WHENEVER WORK IS BEING DONE IN THE RIGHT OF WAY. 
          SO ENCROACHMENT PERMIT WOULD STILL BE REQUIRED, ALTHOUGH WE WILL LOOK FOR EFFICIENCIES ON THE WAY TO, UM, GROUP THOSE TOGETHER. 
          UM, SIMILAR, UM, SIMILAR FEES. 
          THE ENCROACHMENT PERMIT RIGHT NOW IS, UM, $268, UM, FOR TREES, I THINK IT SAYS TREES OR SCAFFOLDING. 
          UM, SO WE WILL, WE WILL LOOK AT THAT AS WELL. 
          AND THEN FINALLY, YOU KNOW, PERMITTING FOR DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, THAT'S A MUCH, UM, THERE'S A LOT MORE DISCRETION. 
          UM, IN, IN THAT PROCESS. 
          THERE IS LANGUAGE ABOUT AN APPLICATION NEEDING TO DEMONSTRATE MAXIMUM TREE PRESERVATION WAS CONSIDERED AS PART OF THE PROJECT DESIGN. 
          UM, A PROJECT ARBORIST IS REQUIRED, UH, TREE PRESERVATION AND PROTECTION PLAN IS REQUIRED. 
          THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE CITY COUNCIL, WHOEVER'S THE REVIEW AUTHORITY FOR THE ENTITLEMENT WOULD BECOME THE REVIEW AUTHORITY FOR THE TREE REMOVAL PERMIT. 
          UM, IN CONCERT WITH THAT PROJECT. 
          UM, APPROVALS, THERE'S SUPPLEMENTAL FINDINGS FOR APPROVAL IN THE ORDINANCE. 
          THERE'S STANDARD CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. 
          THERE'S SECURITY DEPOSITS THAT MAY BE REQUIRED, AND THERE'S A ONE TO ONE INCH REPLACEMENT REQUIRED FOR DEVELOPMENT PROJECT. 
          SO THIS IS A, A DIFFERENT, A DIFFERENT, UM, DIFFERENT SET OF REQUIREMENTS, MORE DETAILED, MORE, UM, PART OF, UH, OF A LOOKING AT THE LARGER ENTITLEMENT AND IMPACT ON TREES. 
          AS SUCH, THESE TREE REMOVAL PERMITS WOULD BE PART OF THE COST RECOVERY FOR THE LARGER PROJECT, UH, SECURITY DEPOSITS, UM, ARE BASED ON, UM, THE ANTICIPATED TREE VALUE. 
          UH, THE IN LOFI IS AT THE DISCRETION. 
          THERE'S MORE DISCRETION. 
          SO, UM, THESE ARE, THESE ARE A LITTLE BIT, IT'S A BIGGER, USUALLY A, A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THAN SOMEBODY REMOVING AN APPLE TREE IN THEIR BACKYARD. 
          IT'S USUALLY LOOKING AT, UM, A MORE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT. 
          UM, SO MOVING ON TO EDUCATION AND RESOURCES, THIS WAS ANOTHER THING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION REALLY WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE WERE LOOKING AT AND PAYING ATTENTION TO. 
          SO WHILE IT'S NOT DIRECTLY ADDRESSED IN THE TPO, WE HAVE INITIATED A WEBPAGE TO EXPAND TREE RELATED CONTENT, UM, ADD MORE RESOURCES, UH, COMMUNICATE THE UPDATES TO THESE PROCESSES, REVISED REGULATIONS, PUTTING, UM, APPLICATION FORMS, THAT KIND OF STUFF THERE. 
          UM, ALSO LOOKING TO DO SOME, UM, INFORMATION ABOUT, UH, STREET TREE MAINTENANCE AS THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP IN THE URBAN FOREST MANAGEMENT PLAN OF THAT, THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC DIDN'T REALIZE THEY NEEDED TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR STREET TREES, THAT THE CITY DIDN'T DO IT. 
          SO, UH, TRYING TO START THIS AS A RESOURCE THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO ADD, ADD TO, UM, AND HAVE AS KIND OF A HOME FOR TREE TREE ISSUES WITH THE CITY TO CONTINUE THAT, THAT EDUCATION RESOURCES FOR PROPERTY OWNERS AND, UM, APPLICANTS. 
          AND THEN, UM, TOUCHING ON THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION BROUGHT UP, UH, WE DID LOOK BACK AT THIS, DYLAN AND I DID, UM, IN TERMS OF DID WE, DID WE HAVE ENOUGH OBJECTIVE STANDARDS? UH, TREES ARE DISCUSSED IN THE CITY'S OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, UM, WHERE THOSE ARE APPLICABLE. 
          UM, BUT WE DO HAVE SPECIFIC DEFINITIONS OF WHAT TREES ARE TO BE PROTECTED REPLACEMENT REQUIREMENTS, MANDATED FENCING. 
          SO WE DO HAVE A LOT OF, UM, OBJECTIVE, UM, STANDARDS BUILT INTO THE DRAFT TPO. 
          SO THAT'S KIND OF THE SUMMARY OF HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE ARE TONIGHT FROM THE LAST TIME WE WERE BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          UM, JUST AS A REMINDER, ALL AMENDMENTS TO THE ZONING OR ORDINANCE REQUIRE, UM, TWO SPECIFIC FINDINGS. 
          ONE, UM, A CONSISTENCY WITH THE PETALUMA GENERAL PLAN AND THE OTHER ONE, UM, THAT THE PUBLIC NECESSITY, CONVENIENCE AND GENERAL WELFARE PERMIT, THE, UM, AMENDMENTS. 
          SO THOSE FINDINGS ARE IN YOUR STAFF REPORT. 
          THEY ARE IN THE RESOLUTION THAT'S BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR CONSIDERATION. 
          UM, IN ADDITION TO THE, TO THE, UM, THE UPDATE TO THE IZO, THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS DISCUSSED IN THE STAFF REPORT THAT WE WILL BE BRINGING FORWARD TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          UM, ONE IS, UH, UPDATE TO THE MUNICIPAL CODE CHAPTER 13.08. 
          AND THAT'S REALLY JUST TO BRING IT CONSISTENT WITH THE UPDATES TO THE TPO. 
          THIS IS WHERE SOME OF THE EXISTING CONFLICT, UM, AND CONFUSION LIES. 
          SO WANTING TO GET THOSE, UM, ALIGNED. 
          AND THEN WE WILL BE TALKING, UM, ABOUT, UM, A FEW DIFFERENT FEE TYPES ASSOCIATED WITH, 
          [02:25:01]
UH, TREES WHEN WE GET BACK TO COUNCIL. 
          SO, UM, ANY FEEDBACK THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MIGHT WANT TO PROVIDE, UH, WE WILL HAPPY TO INCORPORATE THAT INTO OUR REPORT. 
          TO, UH, THE CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC COMMENT, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF PUBLIC COMMENTS IN YOUR PACKET. 
          UM, I BELIEVE WE HAVE SEVEN NEW PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WERE RECEIVED AFTER THE PACKET WENT OUT. 
          COMMENTS ARE GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE ADOPTION OF THE TPO. 
          THERE IS SOME COMMENTS, UM, EXPRESSING CONCERN ABOUT THE CHANGE, UM, TO EXEMPT THE SINGLE FAMILY, UM, PARCELS UP TO 12 INCHES. 
          UM, AND THEN, UH, ONE OF THE LETTERS HAD A FEW SPECIFIC COMMENTS, UM, UH, ON THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAY, MAY WANT TO DISCUSS AS PART OF THEIR DELIBERATION. 
          NEXT STEPS, UH, CITY COUNCIL FOR ADOPTION OF THE TPO. 
          THEN RETURNING TO CITY COUNCIL WITH ANY, UM, FEE ADOPTIONS, WE WILL GET WORKING ON IMPLEMENTATION AND THE CONTINUED EDUCATION AND OUTREACH EFFORTS, UM, ON THIS TOPIC. 
          SO WITH THAT, THAT CONCLUDES, UH, STAFF PRESENTATION. 
          IT'S RECOMMENDED THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING, APPROVE A RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL, UM, ADOPT THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO COMPREHENSIVELY MODIFY CHAPTER 17 OF THE IZO MAKING FINDINGS CONSISTENT WITH IEO SECTION 25 0 5 OH. 
          THAT'S THOSE TWO FINDINGS I REFERRED TO, UH, PROVI AND PROVIDING ANY FEEDBACK ON RELATED TREE ISSUES SUCH AS THE FEES OR AMENDMENTS TO THE MUNICIPAL CODE AND MAKING FINDINGS THAT THIS ACTION IS CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT PURSUANT TO CQA GUIDELINES. 
          AND THAT'S CONCLUDES MY REPORT. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH. 
          UM, LET'S TAKE IT TO THE COMMISSION FOR QUESTIONS FOR STAFF COMMISSIONER ZEN. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND THANK YOU, HEATHER, FOR A GREAT PRESENTATION. 
          I'VE SEEN IT A COUPLE TIMES AND IT IS GOOD EVERY TIME. 
          I'M GONNA WALK THROUGH A COUPLE QUESTIONS, UM, THAT MIGHT BE GETTING IN THE WEEDS A LITTLE BIT, BUT I THINK THEY'RE IMPORTANT. 
          UM, THE FIRST ONE, AND I'M KIND OF WALKING THROUGH IN ORDER OF THE CLEAN DRAFT, SO I'LL TRY TO SAY THE SECTION AND PAGE NUMBER. 
          SO THE FIRST ONE IS 17.040 PART C, AND THIS IS ON PAGE THREE OF THE DOCUMENT, UH, PDF PAGE THREE. 
          AND IT'S EXEMPTIONS 17.040 PART C, IMMINENT SITUATIONS BASED ON A REPORT PREPARED BY A CERTIFIED ARBORIST AND APPROVED BY THE DIRECTOR. 
          CASES WHERE A TREE POSES AN IMMINENT THREAT, UH, OR THREATENED BY THE IMMINENT FAILURE OF RETREAT. 
          IT MAY BE REMOVED WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF A PERMIT. 
          JUST MAKING SURE I UNDERSTAND THAT PROCESS. 
          SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET A PERMIT, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO HAVE THE BACKUP OF AN ARBORIST AND THEY STILL HAVE TO NOTIFY COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. 
          TAKE ONE. 
          IT DID , WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS, UM, THAT THAT IS HOW IT CURRENTLY READS. 
          UM, AND WE, WE HAVE DISCUSSED THIS IN TERMS OF BY THE TIME YOU HAVE SOMEBODY SUBMIT SOMETHING AND YOU REVIEW IT, IT'S GETTING CLOSE TO A PERMIT. 
          UM, AND SO, UM, LOOKING AT WHETHER OR NOT WE NEED, UM, WE, WE NEED SOME MODIFICATIONS TO THAT OR WE NEED, UM, ONE OF, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS IS SOMEBODY WILL REMOVE A TREE, SAY IT WAS AN IMMINENT HAZARD, AND THEN WE HAVE A CODE ENFORCEMENT TO GO OUT AND NEED TO VERIFY OR PROVE WAS IT TRULY AN IMMINENT HAZARD OR DID YOU SAY IT WAS AN IMMINENT HAZARD AND TOOK THE TREE DOWN. 
          AND SO, UM, THIS IS SOMETHING I THINK WE DISCUSSED LAST TIME, AND IT KIND OF GOES INTO MY NEXT QUESTION ABOUT FILING A PERMIT WITH LIKE AN EXEMPTION CHECK MARK AND HAVING THE ABILITY TO UPLOAD SOME KIND OF SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION. 
          SO LET'S JUST SAY IT REALLY IS AN IMMINENT HAZARD. 
          UM, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER TO UPLOAD AN IMAGE, AN ARBORIST REPORT IF THEY HAVE IT? UM, AND MAYBE THIS GETS INTO, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT WILL QUALIFY SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION, BUT I LIKE THE IDEA OF EVEN WHEN SOMEONE THINKS THEY'RE EXEMPT FROM THE PERMIT, FILING A NOTICE THAT THEY'RE EXEMPT, JUST SO WE KNOW IT HAPPENED. 
          EVENTUALLY THERE MIGHT BE AN ENFORCEMENT LOOP WHERE WE CHECK ON THOSE IF THERE'S NOT RIGHT AWAY AS THIS GETS STARTED BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES, I WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT. 
          BUT IT WOULD BE NICE JUST TO HAVE THAT RECORD. 
          AND I THINK THERE'S A DATA COMPONENT OF THAT TOO, JUST HOW 
          [02:30:01]
MANY TREES ARE BEING REMOVED IF WE SEE LIKE A HUGE SPIKE IN EXEMPTIONS, MAYBE PEOPLE ARE PLAYING FAST AND LOOSE WITH THAT OR SOMETHING. 
          UM, HAVE WE THOUGHT ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR WHAT ARE, AND IF WE HAVE, WHAT ARE THE PROS AND CONS OF HAVING LIKE A EXEMPTION FILING AND HAVING SOME KIND OF APPLICANT BACKUP? YEAH. 
          UH, SO I THINK I LIKE THE IDEA OF THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT HOW IT'S DONE ANYWHERE. 
          AND THAT'S BECAUSE SO MANY THINGS FALL UNDER THE EXEMPTION. 
          SO IF, IF THAT WAS REQUIRED, ANYTIME SOMEBODY REMOVED A SEEDLING, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO CARRY IT TO THE, TO THE EXTREME, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO THAT. 
          SO WE'D HAVE TO DEVELOP THIS SECONDARY SET OF LIKE REGULATIONS THAT SAY LIKE, WELL, IF IT'S EXEMPT IN THIS WAY, THEN YOU NEED TO PROVE IT. 
          BUT THEN WHERE DO YOU PROVE THAT? SO TYPICALLY WHEN SOMETHING IS EXEMPT, THAT JUST MEANS IT'S EXEMPT AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING. 
          AND WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO DO, AND WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFOREHAND IS WE'LL HAVE SOME LANGUAGE SOMEWHERE, WHETHER THAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE OR ON THE WEBSITE, WHEN PEOPLE GO TO SEE, DO I NEED A PERMIT? YOU KNOW, THEY, THAT'S USUALLY WHERE PEOPLE START IS THEY'LL GOOGLE LIKE, DO I NEED A TRUE REMOVAL PERMIT? UH, IT'LL SAY SOMETHING LIKE, WE STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU DOCUMENT THAT YOU QUALIFY FOR THIS EXEMPTION. 
          BECAUSE WHAT CAN HAPPEN, AND WHAT DOES HAPPEN IN OTHER MUNICIPALITIES IS SOMEONE REMOVES A TREE THINKING THEY'RE EXEMPT OR JUST THINKING THEY DON'T NEED A PERMIT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT IT. 
          AND THEN A NEIGHBOR CALLS, WHICH IS GOING TO BE HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, ONCE THIS ORDINANCE IS UP AND RUNNING, NEIGHBORS ARE GONNA HEAR CHAINSAWS AND GET WORRIED ABOUT TREES ON THEIR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY, CALL CODE ENFORCEMENT. 
          AND THEN SOMEONE LIKE ME COMES OUT AND HAS TO DO LIKE A FORENSIC INVESTIGATION. 
          AND IF I CAN'T TELL THAT THIS THING WAS EXEMPT AND THEY CAN'T PROVE IT, THEY CAN GET FINED FOR IT. 
          SO IT'S IN EVERYBODY'S BEST INTEREST. 
          'CAUSE IF SOME, IF A NEIGHBOR CALLS AND SAYS, HEY, DO THEY HAVE A PERMIT? AND THE CITY CALLS 'EM AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON? AND THEY CAN JUST IMMEDIATELY SEND A PICTURE THAT SHOWS THAT IT'S CLOSE TO ANOTHER TREE OR THAT IT'S LESS THAN 12 INCHES, THEN EVERYBODY CAN JUST RELAX AND MOVE ON. 
          SO IT'S MORE ABOUT LIKE RECOMMENDING THAT PEOPLE STRONGLY DOCUMENT STUFF SO THAT THEY DON'T WASTE EVERYBODY'S TIME. 
          I LIKE THE, THE DATA THING, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S REASONABLE. 
          AND I'VE NEVER SEEN IT DONE RE LIKE A, UH, RE A REALISTIC THING TO DO WITH ALL THE SMALL TREES THAT'LL GET REMOVED. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT'S SU THAT'S SUPER USEFUL. 
          BUT I LIKE THE TRACK YOU'RE ON THERE ABOUT NOT IT, HAVING IT SO THAT THE APPLICANT HAS SOME BURDEN OF PROOF, BUT IF THEY DIDN'T GET AN ARBORIST OUT BECAUSE IT WAS A LITERAL IMMINENT SITUATION, THAT WE HAVE SOME KIND OF FALLBACK. 
          SO I APPRECIATE THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO I'M GONNA CHECK OFF MY, YOU KNOW, FILING EVEN IF YOU'RE EXEMPT BECAUSE I, YEAH, WE DON'T WANT EVERY SEEDLING TO BE PART OF THAT. 
          UH, OKAY. 
          WELL THANK YOU FOR THAT. 
          THAT KIND OF ADDRESSES MY QUESTION UNDER EXEMPTIONS. 
          THE NEXT AREA WAS 17.060 PART C. 
          THIS IS ON PAGE FIVE OF THE PDF. 
          SO THIS IS TREE REMOVAL PERMITS UNDER FINDINGS FOR APPROVAL. 
          AND I THINK WHAT I HAD MARKED HERE WAS, YES, UM, REMOVAL IS NECESSARY TO ALLOW REASONABLE USE AND ENJOYMENT. 
          I THINK BILL REINHARDT RAISED THIS IN HIS COMMENTS. 
          UM, WHAT DO WE ENVISION THAT MEANING IT OBVIOUSLY, IT KIND OF LOOKS LIKE AN ESCAPE HATCH TO ALLOW FOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR DISCRETION WHEN IT'S SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T FIT NEATLY INTO ANOTHER BOX. 
          UM, WHAT, WHAT DO WE ENVISION THAT MEANING, MEANING, AND IS IT IN OUR OPINION, OR IN STAFF'S OPINION, POTENTIALLY TOO BROAD? DO WE HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT THERE? I CAN TAKE THAT AGAIN. 
          UH, YEAH. 
          SO WITHOUT THAT, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO PUT AN ADDITION ON THEIR HOUSE OR BUILD AN A DU, THERE'S NO AVENUE FOR THEM TO REMOVE THAT TREE. 
          YOU JUST, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ONE OF THOSE REQUIRED FINDINGS. 
          SO IF THE TREE IS, IF IT'S NOT SICK AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT, SOMEONE JUST CAN'T DO THAT. 
          AND TO, TO WRITE AN ORDINANCE THAT DOESN'T ALLOW PEOPLE TO, TO BUILD A LITTLE BIT IN A REASONABLE WAY IS JUST NOT REALISTIC. 
          OKAY. 
          I APPRECIATE THAT. 
          THAT WAS MY FEELING. 
          BUT IT'S NICE TO HEAR THAT STAFF'S CHARACTERIZATION AS WELL. 
          UM, THE NEXT ONE IS IN ALSO 17 POINT, SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF, BUT IT'S ALSO, IT IS STILL A HIGH BAR. 
          YOU KNOW, IF YOU WALK OUT AND YOU SEE, AND ANYONE CAN SEE THAT, OH, YOU COULD JUST PUT THE EXTENSION OVER HERE AND AVOID THIS BIG TREE, YOU KNOW, YOU SAY, GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD, LITERALLY. 
          OKAY, GOT IT. 
          YEAH, SO IT'S NOT, NOT, IT'S NOT A RUBBER STAMP BY ANY MEANS. 
          OKAY. 
          AND ALSO THAT PLAY PLAYS IN, UM, TO, YOU KNOW, ALSO THE 
          [02:35:01]
DISCUSSION THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAD LAST TIME OF WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS FLEXIBILITY, THAT IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT THAT TREE IN THEIR BACKYARD IN THEIR, ON THEIR, YOU KNOW, 6,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT AND THEY, THEY, THAT THEY, THERE DOES NEED TO BE SOME FLEXIBILITY SO THAT PEOPLE CAN USE THEIR PROPERTY. 
          UM, SO IT'S, I THINK IT'S KIND OF LIKE DOVETAILING ALSO WITH PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS, GOVERNMENT REGULATION IN, IN THAT WAY TOO, AND TRYING TO HIT, UM, A, A MIDDLE GROUND THAT, THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          AND THANK YOU BOTH FOR, FOR COMMENTING ON THAT. 
          UM, MY NEXT QUESTION IS ON SAME, CAN I YEAH, YEAH, PLEASE, UM, FOLLOW UP ON THAT REAL QUICK. 
          I CAN YOU HIT HIS SECOND POINT ABOUT THE ARBITRARY CAPRICIOUSNESS POTENTIALLY OF THAT, UM, STATEMENT. 
          SO IS THERE, JUST BECAUSE, BECAUSE THE LANGUAGE IS REASONABLE USE AND ENJOYMENT, IS THAT TOO BROAD OF A STATEMENT THAT COULD COME BACK AND, UM, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF SOME WAY THAT IT WOULD BE THE ANTITHESIS OF THAT THINKING OF MAYBE A NEIGHBOR WHO DOESN'T WANT SOMEONE TO PUT, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL, UM, TO HAVE CONSTRUCTION NEXT TO THEM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          IS THAT, AND THEN SAY, HEY, THIS DEFINITION IS TOO BROAD AND CAN BE TOO LOOSE, SO THEREFORE IT'S NOT AN OBJECTIVE STANDARD? OR IS THAT NOT WORRY HERE? WELL, A A LOT OF THE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, I, I SEE THIS ONE BEING REALLY APPLICABLE TO THE SINGLE FAMILY, THE INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER. 
          SO A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT SOMEBODY MIGHT WANNA REMOVE A TREE FOR IN THAT SITUATION ARE NOT GONNA BE ANY SORT OF DISCRETION, RIGHT? A A YOU WANNA PUT A POOL IN OR YOU WANNA BUILD AN A DU OR YOU WANNA DO A SUNROOM ADDITION OFF THE BACK, OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT IS, THOSE ARE GONNA BE BUILDING PERMITS AND THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A DISCRETIONARY REVIEW, UM, IN THAT WAY. 
          UM, SO I GUESS, ARE YOU ASKING, UM, IF SOMEBODY WHO'S OPPOSED TO AN A DU GOING NEXT DOOR CAN UTILIZE THAT TO SAY I, I DON'T THINK I, I I, I, I THINK WE CAN MAKE THE FINDING, BUT I'D LOOK TO, YEAH, I'M JUST LOOKING AT IT NOW. 
          SO IT DOES SAY SUBJECT PROPERTY, SO IT'S ONLY THE PROPERTY OWNER THAT CAN, MAY USE THAT EXEMPTION, BUT ANY DETERMINATION BY THE DIRECTOR IS SUBJECT TO APPEAL. 
          SO IF SOMEBODY FEELS THAT THEY CAN'T MAKE THAT REASONABLE NECESSARY FINDING, UM, BUT JUST THINKING OF EXAMPLES TOO, WE COULD ALSO INCLUDE SORT OF REASONABLE NECESSITY INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, THE BUILDING OF A NEW WHATEVER CONSTRUCTION OR IF WE WANTED TO PROVIDE EXAMPLES OF WHAT, I DON'T KNOW, BETTER DEFINE WHAT A REASONABLE, I THINK IF IT'S DISCRETIONARY, THEN WE KEEP IT, KEEP IT LOOSE AND I MEAN, IT'S NOT LOOSE, BUT SURE. 
          KEEP IT FLEXIBLE. 
          YEAH. 
          AND WHAT I CAN SAY IS IT'S SUPER COMMON. 
          THAT'S IN MOST OF THE REQUIRED FINDINGS THAT I SEE IN ORDINANCES AROUND. 
          IT ALSO SAYS THAT, UH, REMOVAL IS NECESSARY TO ALLOW THE REASONABLE ENJOYMENT. 
          AND THEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE FINDINGS FOR DENIAL, IT ALSO, NUMBER TWO, REVISIONS TO THE PROPOSED PROJECT WOULD ALLOW THE OWNER TO REASONABLY DEVELOP AND USE THE SUBJECT PROPERTY WITHOUT REQUIRING THE REMOVAL OF A HEALTHY TREE OF MULTIPLE TREES. 
          SO IT'S, I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF COVERED BOTH WAYS, BUT IT'S ALSO KIND OF A, A, A TIME TESTED THING TO HAVE IN ORDINANCES. 
          SO I, I SEE IT A LOT AND I'VE NEVER SEEN IT USED MALICIOUSLY OR IN A, IN A WEIRD WAY. 
          OKAY. 
          GOOD. 
          NO, I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT ONE TO STEP THROUGH. 
          I MEAN, NONE THE LEAST OF WHICH, YOU KNOW, BILL REINHARDT HAS BEEN SUCH A PART OF TREE POLICY. 
          IF HE ELEVATED IT, I JUST WANT TO COMMENT ON IT. 
          AND IT DOES, THERE IS OPENNESS TO INTERPRETATION, SO I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION AROUND THAT, UH, AND APPRECIATE KIND OF ITS FUNCTION IN THE ORDINANCE. 
          AND I DON'T HAVE TOO, TOO MANY MORE QUESTIONS, I SWEAR. 
          SO I'LL TRY TO PICK IT UP HERE. 
          UM, 17.060 PART E UNDER STREET TREES. 
          THIS WAS A QUESTION FOR STAFF, JUST WHETHER, YOU KNOW, THE INITIAL COST OF THE PERMIT APPROVAL CAN SOMEHOW GIVE CREDIT TOWARD THE ENCROACHMENT PERMIT. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S STANDARD OR NOT. 
          I WOULD JUST HATE TO SEE PEOPLE, 'CAUSE WE WANT STREET TREES REPLACED. 
          I WOULD HATE TO SEE PEOPLE HIT TWICE FOR REPLACING STREET TREES. 
          IS THERE ANYTHING, ANY FLEXIBILITY LIKE THAT? I, I, I CAN'T OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD KNOW WHICH CITY HAS ALLOWED THAT, BUT I'VE SEEN PERMITS BEFORE WHERE YOU GET CREDIT FOR AN INITIAL PERMIT FOR A FUTURE ONE. 
          POTENTIALLY. 
          WE, WE CAN LOOK INTO THAT IN TERMS OF, OF THAT PROCESS AND THE, AND THE FEES, UM, AND SEE IF WE CAN, IF, IF THE ENCOURAGEMENT FEE CAN COME DOWN SINCE 
          [02:40:01]
FROM WHAT IT IS CURRENTLY, SINCE YOU'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT DOING THE SAME, UM, REVIEW THROUGH THE ENCROACHMENT PERMIT. 
          IT'S MORE LIKE, ARE YOU BLOCKING TRAFFIC? ARE YOU, YOU KNOW, THOSE KIND OF BASICS AS OPPOSED TO LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL REVIEW OF THE TREE. 
          YEAH, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. 
          THAT WOULD BE GREAT. 
          THANK YOU, UM, FOR THAT. 
          AND THEN, OH, UH, 17.070. 
          THIS IS TREE REPLACEMENT AND THIS IS IN PART B. 
          I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T HAVE A CONFLICT HERE. 
          UH, I WILL GET TO PART C IN MY COMMENTS, BUT 17.070 HERITAGE AND LANDMARK TREES, IT SAYS THE REMOVAL OF THE DESIGNATED HERITAGE OR LANDMARK TREE SHALL BE REPLACED IN KIND WITH A MINIMUM 24 INCH BOX SPECIMEN OF SIMILAR CHARACTER AS APPROVED BY THE REVIEW AUTHORITY. 
          AND THEN IT SAYS, AN IN COMPLIANCE WITH MUNICIPAL CODE 8.28, UH, POINT 100 B ONE. 
          AND THAT TALKS ABOUT IN THAT SECTION, OBVIOUSLY THIS WOULD GO BEFORE HCPC. 
          WE'VE SEEN THOSE HEARINGS WHERE IT'S AN HCPC HEARING ON THE TREE, AND THAT SECTION IN THE MUNI CODE REFERENCES A 1.5 INCH CALIPER PER 24 INCH BOX REPLACEMENT. 
          UM, OR LIKE A 24 INCH BOX IS EQUIVALENT TO 1.5 INCHES OF THE HERITAGE TREE BEING REMOVED, WHICH IT JUST, I DON'T WANT TO HAVE CONFLICTING STATEMENTS WHERE WE'RE SAYING, HEY, IN THE ORDINANCE, REPLACE IT WITH 1 24 INCH BOX TREE AND THEN IN THE MUNI CODE, THE WAY I INTERPRET IT IS IT'S A REALLY AGGRESSIVE REPLACEMENT RATIO, WHICH I LIKE, AND I THINK IN THE CASE OF A CONFLICT, KIND OF DEFER TO THE MUNI CODE PROCESS FOR REPLACING THE LANDMARK TREE. 
          BUT, UH, THOSE ARE INTENDED TO, THAT'S INTENDED TO JUST CITE TO THE MUNI CODE AND BE CONSISTENT WITH, OKAY. 
          SO I'LL LOOK AT THAT TO MAKE SURE IT'S, WE DIDN'T MISS SOMETHING THERE, BUT THE INTENTION WAS NOT TO CHANGE FROM WHAT THE MUNI CODE REQUIRES FOR HERITAGE TREES. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO VERIFY. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, AND THEN THE, UH, TWO MORE QUESTIONS. 
          ONE IS 17.080, AND THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE PRUNING, AND I THINK THIS IS THE 24, THE 25% OF ABOVE GROUND MASS PER YEAR. 
          SO WE CAN'T PRUNE MORE THAN 25% OF ABOVE, ABOVE GROUND MASS. 
          I'M JUST WONDERING, UM, IS THAT REALLY SOMETHING DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE TO REPORT WHEN WE DO SEE, LIKE THE CRAZY PRUNING, OR I BELIEVE WENDY SUBMITTED THE, THE ONE ON MCDOWELL OLD REDWOOD HIGHWAY THAT'S REALLY BAD OF LIKE TURNING THE TREES INTO JUST A POLE. 
          IS THAT PRIMARILY HOW WE SEE THAT? BECAUSE I HAD THE QUESTION LIKE, HOW DO WE MEASURE THAT? HOW DO WE, BUT I GUESS THAT WOULD JUST BE ON A REPORTING BASIS. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT'S JUST, UM, WAS A GENERALLY ACCEPTABLE PERCENTAGE TO DIFFERENTIATE WHEN SOMEBODY IS DOING HEALTHY PRUNING AND NOT HEALTHY PRUNING. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT'S SORT OF FAMOUSLY HARD TO MEASURE AND IT'S ONE OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE IT SITUATIONS AND THAT'S HOW IT'S USUALLY TREATED. 
          I, AND THAT'S ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT IT'S USED A LOT AND I'VE NEVER SEEN IT CAUSE A PROBLEM WHERE YOU REALLY GET LIKE TWO EXTROVERTS THAT ARE SAYING THAT'S 26% THAT, THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THAT, THAT ALL MAKES SENSE. 
          AND THEN THE FINAL ONE, UH, AND THIS MIGHT BE FOR BEN, IF THIS IS STANDARD, UM, 17.140 ON ENFORCEMENT, WE TALK ABOUT CRIMINAL PROSECUTION AS A MISDEMEANOR, IF WE VIOLATE THIS CHAPTER, JUST WONDERING IF THAT'S GOING TOO FAR. 
          I HAD A, A FRIEND WHO'S A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT, SUPER PROT TREE, UH, AND EVEN SHE WAS QUESTIONING A LITTLE BIT, SHOULD IT BE A MISDEMEANOR? SHOULD WE JUST RELY ON FEES AND WHAT OUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT ARE? AGAIN, IF THAT'S NORMAL PRACTICE, UM, OR, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M ALWAYS A BIG FAN OF LET'S COLLECT THE MONEY INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, PUTTING COSTS ON OURSELVES IF WE CAN. 
          BUT, UH, JUST ANY THOUGHTS AROUND THAT AND WE CAN CIRCLE BACK TO THAT LATER IF WE, IF WE NEED TO. 
          UH, MY THOUGHT ON THAT IS THAT'S ALSO LANGUAGE THAT I SEE IN OTHER ORDINANCES AND IT CONTAINS A LOT OF MAZE AND NOT A LOT OF SHELLS. 
          AND IT MORE JUST OPENS THE DOOR THAT YOU CAN GO AFTER SOMEBODY FOR DOING SOMETHING. 
          BUT I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN SOMEBODY CHARGED WITH A MISDEMEANOR FOR REMOVING A TREE. 
          THEY GET HIT WITH BIG, BIG FINES, BUT NEVER A MISDEMEANOR. 
          AND THAT LANGUAGE IS CURRENTLY IN OUR, IN OUR EXISTING TPO. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THAT ADDRESSES THAT FINAL PIECE, ORDINANCE UPDATE PROCESS. 
          ONCE WE ROLL THIS OUT, HOW EASY IS IT FOR US TO AMEND, CHANGE, ADAPT, UH, AS WE NEED TO, AS EASY AS COMING HERE TO THE CITY COUNCIL? UM, SO I MEAN, ALL ORDINANCES, WE KNOW THIS, YOU, YOU ADOPT A NEW ORDINANCE AND THEN YOU USE IT FOR, YOU KNOW, A PERIOD OF TIME AND YOU THINK, OH, THAT DIDN'T WORK QUITE LIKE WE THOUGHT. 
          OR, OH, THAT'S, THAT'S GREAT. 
          WE SHOULD CHANGE 
          [02:45:01]
THIS LANGUAGE TO BE MORE LIKE THAT. 
          SO PERIODIC UPDATES ARE PART OF A HEALTHY ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          UM, SO WE WILL, WE WILL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THAT. 
          UM, WE ARE, YOU KNOW, GOING TO BE DOING A SERIES OF ZONING CODE UPDATES TO IMPLEMENT HOUSING TO IMPLEMENT, UH, GENERAL PLANS. 
          SO THERE WILL BE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES IF IN THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO WE'RE RUNNING INTO ANY PROBLEMS OR, UM, STUMBLING BLOCKS, WE WILL BE BRINGING INCREMENTALLY ZONING CODE UPDATES THAT IT MAKES IT A LITTLE EASIER FOR US TO DO THAT KIND OF THING. 
          OKAY. 
          TERRIFIC. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION AND ALL THE WORK THAT'S GONE INTO THIS. 
          UM, SO MY QUESTION IS REALLY KIND OF PERTAINING TO THE ON DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS AND THE ATTEMPT TO, I FORGET WHAT IT WAS, BUT THE VERY FIRST ONE WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, ALL MEANS BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY SAVE THE TREES, RIGHT? THAT WAS SORT OF WHAT I TOOK FROM IT. 
          UM, WHICH FEELS A LITTLE SUBJECTIVE. 
          UM, AND I'M WONDERING LIKE, WHAT IS THE SORT OF GUIDEPOST FOR THAT? WHAT ARE THE CRITERIA THAT WE APPLY TO DETERMINE IF A DEVELOPMENT PROJECT HAS DONE EVERYTHING REASONABLE TO PRESERVE LARGE MATURE TREES? UM, AND THEN I GUESS THE SECOND QUESTION TO THAT, JUST, UM, I WAS TALKING TO ANDREW A. LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT BEFORE, DURING THE BREAK IS LIKE, WHAT TOOLS DO WE HAVE IN OUR TOOLBOX TO TRY AND PRESERVE THOSE? UM, SO LIKE HAVING BEEN THROUGH A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SPAR HEARINGS, IT FEELS LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE ALWAYS COME BACK TO IS LIKE, WHAT ABOUT TREE NUMBER? WAS IT 43 ON SID COMMONS? AND THEN THE RIVER BEND PROJECT HAD THIS BEAUTIFUL OAK TREE THAT WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU JUST LIKE SAVE THAT ONE BIG MATURE TREE AND MAKE PEOPLE REMEMBER THAT LIKE THERE WAS A MATURE TREE THERE AND, AND EVERYTHING. 
          SO WHAT TOOLS DO WE HAVE IN OUR TOOLBOX TO, TO SORT OF ADDRESS THAT SCENARIO THAT OFTEN COMES UP? I'LL START AND IF BEN, YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD? UM, SO YOU'RE RIGHT. 
          IT DOES SAY, UH, ALL DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS SHALL BE DESIGNED TO RECOGNIZE THE CITY'S GOAL TO PRESERVE EXISTING TREE CANOPY, DEMONSTRATE CONSIDERATION AND INCORPORATION OF DESIGN PRINCIPLES TO IMPLEMENT THE OBJECTIVES OF THE ORDINANCE TO THE GREATEST EXTENT FEASIBLE. 
          SO I THINK SOME OF THE TOOLS ARE HAVING THE ARBORIST REPORT SO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT'S THERE. 
          YOU UNDERSTAND, OH, ALL THE TREES IN THIS AREA ARE IN FAIR CONDITION VERSUS THESE ARE THE BIGGEST AND THE MOST HEALTHY. 
          YOU KNOW, SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE, AND THAT'LL BE WHAT STAFF IS LOOKING AT TOO, WHEN LOOKING AT CAN WE MAKE THE FINDINGS BEFORE BRINGING THAT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION? IS CAN, CAN WE, CAN WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT DESIGN PROCESS WAS AND HOW THEY DECIDED, UM, WHICH TREES TO GO OR WHERE TO PLACE THE BUILDING TO PRESERVE THAT? UM, AND I, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S WORKED IN OTHER PROJECTS. 
          WE HAD A PROJECT THAT LOOKED TO BASICALLY CLEAR CUT THE SITE, UM, AND WE KEPT SAYING, YEAH, YOU CAN DO THAT. 
          YOU KNOW, EVEN, EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T HAVE A VERY STRONG ORDINANCE, UM, AND WE KEPT TRYING TO GET THEM TO, YOU KNOW, MODIFY IN ORDER TO PICK SOME, PICK SOMETHING THAT IS THE BEST SPECIMEN. 
          SO I THINK THE ARBORIST REPORT IS A GREAT PIECE OF THIS AND REQUIRING THAT AND UNDERSTANDING THAT AS PART OF THE SITE LAYOUT. 
          UM, AND I DO TH I MEAN, I, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING 'CAUSE I REMEMBER WITH THAT RIVER BEND THEY SAVED FOUR THREE, AND THEN THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARING THEY ENDED UP SAVING ONE MORE, I THINK, DIDN'T THEY? YEAH. 
          THAT THERE WAS, THERE WAS ENOUGH DISCUSSION. 
          AND SO PROBABLY, AND OFTENTIMES THAT IS STAFF TRIES TO GET AS MANY OF THEM SAVED AND WE HIT KIND OF A ROADBLOCK. 
          AND THEN SOMETIMES WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC HEARING, THE DECISION MAKERS HAVE AN ADDITIONAL, UM, OPPORTUNITY TO, TO GET ONE MORE OR TWO MORE OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, WHATEVER THAT IS. 
          YEAH. 
          I GUESS MY, MY QUESTION IS MORE LIKE, IS THERE A TIT FOR TAT LIKE WE'RE GONNA ESTABLISH AN IN LOOPY AND LIKE ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS THAT THE IN FEE FOR A RESIDENT SHOULD BE DIFFERENT IS VERSUS THIS YEAH. 
          YOU KNOW, THERE'S LIKE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO SORT OF REALLY SORT OF LIKE CREATE A STRONG SIGNAL TO DEVELOPERS TO PRESERVE THOSE TREES, DESIGN THEIR PROJECTS AROUND THEM. 
          UM, 
          [02:50:02]
AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, BUT YOU KNOW, A A 24 INCH BOX IS NOT GONNA REPLACE A 24 INCH TREE, YOU KNOW? NO. 
          A BUNCH OF 24 INCH BOXES IS NOT GONNA DO THAT. 
          YES, YES. 
          UM, AND SO, UM, WHETHER THERE'S LIKE OTHER DEVELOPMENT CONCESSIONS THAT WE BRING INTO IT, YOU KNOW, ANDREW WAS TALKING ABOUT LIKE A REDUCTION IN PARKLAND IMPACT FEES BECAUSE LIKE WE VALUE THIS AS PART OF OUR, YOU KNOW, THAT OR, UM, AN INCREASE IN DENSITY BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING MORE TO SAVE TREES. 
          I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY RIGHT. 
          BUT LIKE, HOW DO WE MAKE IT MORE VALUABLE FOR DEVELOPERS TO SAVE THE TREES, UM, THAN, YOU KNOW, AND IDEALLY NOT DIMINISH THE, THE REVENUE THAT COMES TO THE CITY, BUT  INCREASE THE VALUE TO THEM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING SOME, BASICALLY TREATING PRE TREE PRESERVATION AS A COMMUNITY BENEFIT AND THEREFORE LIKE ESTABLISHING A VALUE ON IT AND PROVIDING CONCESSIONS AND DEVELOPMENT OR SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA HELP, YOU KNOW, GIVE THEM THAT ENCOURAGEMENT. 
          YEAH, AND I THINK THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT HOW THE TREE PRESERVATION ORDINANCE IS ONE PIECE OF LIKE A LARGER STRATEGY TOO MM-HMM . 
          SO, UM, THIS ISN'T GONNA SOLVE EVERYTHING. 
          UM, IT IS GOING TO HELP US, YOU KNOW, HAVE BETTER REGULATIONS OVER LOSING TREE CANOPY AND JUST KIND OF WILLY-NILLY. 
          UM, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP OUR MINDS, YOU KNOW, ATTUNED TO THAT AND BE THINKING THAT WHEN WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, PERMIT STREAMLINING THINGS IN THE IZO UPDATE OR, YOU KNOW, CREATING ANY SORT OF, UM, LOCAL INCENTIVES, THAT KIND OF THING, THAT'S, I THINK THOSE ARE GREAT IDEAS. 
          GREAT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANKS. 
          I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. 
          UM, SO I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FAR MORE FROM THE, UH, SINGLE FAMILY HOMEOWNER PERSPECTIVE. 
          UM, AND, UH, THOSE SORT OF USE CASES FOR FOLKS LIKE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE EAST SIDE ON THAT 5,000, 6,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT WITH SOME MAYBE AN, A NICE TREE IN THE FRONT YARD OF THE BACKYARD. 
          SO I'M WONDERING IF YOU COULD SORT OF WALK ME THROUGH, BEAT BY BEAT. 
          WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A NEIGHBOR GETS A LETTER FROM THEIR INSURANCE SAYING, YOU GOTTA GET RID OF THAT TREE, OR WE'RE DROPPING YOUR HOME INSURANCE. 
          I KNOW THIS PROCESS WELL, 'CAUSE I WENT THROUGH THAT  AND IT WAS PAINFUL. 
          UM, I BELIEVE WE WROTE SOMETHING IN YEAH, THAT'S ONE OF THE, IT IS, IT IS. 
          I'LL, I'LL GIVE YOU A HINT. 
          IT'S IN FINDINGS OF APPROVAL NUMBER FOUR. 
          YEP. 
          THAT IT WOULD BE A FINDING OF APPROVAL. 
          BUT I WANNA UNDERSTAND THE STEP BY STEP FROM, I'VE GOTTEN THIS SCARY LETTER FROM MY INSURANCE USUALLY TO, YOU KNOW, ALL THE FEES AND EVERYTHING. 
          SO FAR WHAT I'VE SEEN, AND I'VE SEEN A LOT OF THAT IS THE INSURANCE REQUIRES YOU TO PRUNE THE TREE SO YOUR ROOF IS CLEAR TO SKY, NOT NECESSARILY REMOVE A TREE. 
          SO A LOT OF TIMES YOU CAN GET THAT PRUNING DONE WITHOUT A PERMIT IF THE AMOUNT OF PRUNING THAT YOU NEED TO DO REQUIRES YOU TO REMOVE THE TREE AND YOUR TREE IS OVER 12 INCHES IN DIAMETER AS IT'S WRITTEN NOW, YOU NEED TO GET A PERMIT. 
          SO YOU HAVE SORT OF, THE WAY WE'RE IMAGINING IT, AND AGAIN, NONE OF THIS IS IN THE ORDINANCE. 
          THIS IS ALL LIKE A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT FOR HOW WE'RE GONNA DO AN APPLICATION LATER. 
          UH, BUT THE WAY THAT WE'RE ENVISIONING IT IS YOU COULD PAY FOR A SITE VISIT FROM THE CITY'S CONSULTING ARBORIST FIRST TO HAVE THEM COME OUT, LOOK AT IT, MAYBE IDENTIFY DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR YOU WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO REMOVE THE TREE BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S A, A REAL SITUATION THAT DOES HAPPEN FOR ME. 
          'CAUSE I, THAT HAPPENS, SEBASTOPOL SEEMS TO BE GETTING HIT REALLY HARD WITH INSURANCE LATELY, AND I'M THE CITY OF RST THERE. 
          SO I'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF THOSE APPOINTMENTS WHERE PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY HAD TO REMOVE A TREE, BUT IT TURNS OUT THEY CAN JUST PRUNE IT. 
          UM, SO YOU COULD START WITH THAT AND THEN, AND THAT'S THE TWO 50 ESTIMATE WE THINK MM-HMM . 
          YEP. 
          OKAY. 
          AND BASED ON HOW THAT GOES, RIGHT? YOU, YOU MIGHT NEED A PERMIT OR YOU MIGHT NOT, AND THEN YOU'RE KIND OF DONE WITH THE CITY AND YOU'VE GOT IT DOCUMENTED WITH SOMEONE THAT'S WORKING FOR THE CITY THAT THIS IS WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN OR YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO REMOVE HISTORY. 
          AND THE CITY'S ARBORIST COULD TELL YOU KIND OF RIGHT THEN LIKE, YEAH, WHEN THIS, WHEN THIS PERMIT APPLICATION COMES THROUGH TO ME, I'M GONNA BE ABLE TO PROVE IT FOR MY DESK 'CAUSE I'VE ALREADY BEEN OUT HERE. 
          SO THEN YOU'D GO TO THE CITY PLAY THAT, PAY THAT ADDITIONAL FEE FOR WHATEVER THE THREE 80 ISH ACTUAL PERMIT IS. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          AND YOU WOULD GET THAT AND THEN YOU'D GET YOUR PERMIT AND YOU'D BE DONE. 
          AND IN THAT SITUATION, WE'D, I THINK WE'RE STILL FINE TUNING THE REPLACEMENT REQUIREMENT MM-HMM . 
          BECAUSE I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS LOOKING TO PENALIZE SOMEONE FOR HAVING TO REMOVE 
          [02:55:01]
A TREE THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO REMOVE. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO LIKE IN, IN, WHEN IT'S BEEN UP TO ME AS LIKE THE CONSULTING ARBORIST IN THOSE, I SAY JUST ONE REPLACEMENT TREE IS FINE AND THEN YOU CAN, AND IF THERE'S SPACE ON THE LOT, THAT'S THE OTHER THING THAT YOU REALLY GET FROM THAT SITE VISIT IS WHEN I GO TO A LOT AND I SEE THAT THIS TREE HAS TO BE REMOVED, BUT THE THING IS STILL OVER PLANTED, I CAN SAY, YEAH, YOU, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PUT ANOTHER TREE BACK IN OR PAY AN IN LIE FEE BECAUSE YOU'RE ALREADY HAVING TO DO ALL THIS WORK THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE TO DO . 
          OKAY. 
          UM, YEAH, I MEAN I THINK WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WHEN WE, UH, TALKED ABOUT THIS A FEW MONTHS AGO AROUND THE TRYING TO SAVE HOMEOWNERS FROM JUMPING THROUGH HOOPS TO BE TOLD THEY'RE EXEMPT . 
          UM, AND I STILL THINK EVEN IN OUR EXEMPTIONS AND PERHAPS EVEN WITH THIS ALLOWABLE, UH, THE ALLOWABLE REASONING FOR INSURANCE, THERE'S LIKE STILL A LOT OF FEES AND A LOT OF HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH WHEN SORT OF THE ONLY ANSWER IS THE UNFORTUNATE TRUTH THAT THIS TREE OUGHT TO GO. 
          BUT OFTEN IT'S NOT THAT ANSWER. 
          AND THAT'S WHAT THE PERMIT THING IS, IS REALLY FOR, IS FOR CATCHING THOSE TREES WHERE PEOPLE ARE UNDER THE MISTAKEN CONCLUSION THAT THEY HAVE TO REMOVE A TREE WHEN THEY REALLY DON'T. 
          AND SOMETIMES IT DOES. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, REQUIRING PERMITS FOR THINGS IS GONNA BE A PAIN FOR SOME PEOPLE. 
          NOBODY REALLY WANTS TO GET A PERMIT TO DO, TO REPLACE THEIR ROOF OR ANY OF THE THINGS THEY HAVE TO DO TO THEIR HOUSE. 
          AND NOT EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS GOING TO WIN IN EVERY SCENARIO WITH A NEW ORDINANCE, BUT THE GOAL IS TO IMPROVE THINGS FOR THE COMMUNITY. 
          TOTALLY. 
          AND I THINK THE, THE, THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS THAT, UH, THERE'S A LOT MORE AGENCY TO TAKE IT INTO YOUR OWN HANDS. 
          , WHEN IT IS CUTTING DOWN A TREE, A 12 INCH TREE IS GONNA BE A LOT MORE COMPLICATED TO SNEAKILY TAKE DOWN IN A WEEKEND. 
          UM, BUT IF THERE'S TOO MUCH BURDEN, THEN WE'RE JUST GONNA GET PEOPLE IGNORING THE ORDINANCE AND TAKING IT INTO THEIR OWN HANDS. 
          SO THAT'S WHERE I'M LIKE TRYING TO FIND THE BALANCE BETWEEN THE PERMITTING BURDEN, THE COSTS, AND LIKE LEGITIMATELY ACTIONABLE IMPLEMENTATION. 
          WELL, AND I, I THINK THAT'S WHY WE'RE TRYING TO COME UP WITH THINGS LIKE OFFERING A CONSULTATION, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? BECAUSE, BECAUSE I THINK TO BEN'S POINT, IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I GOT A LETTER LIKE THAT. 
          I DIDN'T WANNA TAKE MY TREES OUT. 
          SURE. 
          SO I WAS DOING EVERYTHING I COULD AND THERE WAS NO NICE LITTLE PROCESS THROUGH MY CITY. 
          UM, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AND SO I WAS RACING AROUND TRYING TO FIND A, A TREE PRUNER THAT WOULDN'T SAY, YEAH, YOU GOTTA TAKE YOUR TREES OUT. 
          MM-HMM . 
          UM, BUT SO WE'RE TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO, UM, PROVIDE RESOURCES AND ASSISTANCE WITHOUT IT BEING TOO MUCH. 
          BUT WE HAVE TO ALSO COVER COVER COSTS FOR THOSE. 
          AND, AND I'LL JUST INTERJECT THAT, I MEAN THAT, THAT PRE-CONSULTATION THAT IS LIKE HAVING AN ARBORIST COME OUT, RIGHT? SO A LOT OF PEOPLE'S FIRST REACTION WHEN THEY GET A LETTER LIKE THAT IS TO SEE WHO IN PRIVATE INDUSTRY DO I DEAL WITH TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO IN RESPONSE TO THIS? AND THIS IS THE CITY KIND OF OFFERING THAT AS A SERVICE THAT I THINK YOU'D FIND A COMPARABLE, I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT PRICING OF AN ARBOR SITE VISIT, BUT SOMETHING COMPARABLE WHERE YOU GET THAT CONFIRMATION OF LIKE WHAT TO DO NEXT. 
          AND THEN, YEAH, IF YOU DO HAVE TO PAY A PERMIT, PERMIT FEE, YOU DO THAT. 
          AND I THINK THIS LEADS TO A DISCUSSION ABOUT, UH, ENFORCEMENT THAT'LL, THAT'LL WAIT ON, BUT LIKE, IF WE DON'T REQUIRE IT, THEN PEOPLE JUST REMOVE IT THEMSELVES ANYWAY. 
          LIKE IF INSURANCE IS A FLAT EXEMPTION, THEN THEY JUST REMOVE IT ANYWAY. 
          WHEREAS IN THE SCENARIO, IF THEY'RE DODGING WHAT IS SEEN TO BE TOO ARDUOUS, UH, A REGULATION, THEN THEY'RE DODGING IT AND IT'S KIND OF THE SAME OUTCOME. 
          WHEREAS IF WE GET ANY VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE, THAT'S A WIN. 
          SO, UH, BUT I'LL I'LL WAIT ON THAT. 
          SORRY. 
          SURE. 
          AND I MEAN THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WE, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST TIME TOO OF IF, IF THE, IF THE PARKING METER IS $1,200 BUT THE PARKING TICKET IS $500, YOU JUST TAKE THE CHANCE AND PAY THE TICKET, RIGHT? SO THEY'RE LIKE, HAS TO BE THAT BALANCE. 
          UM, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE, YOU'VE LAID OUT SOME OF THE FEES, I'M STILL A LITTLE FUZZY ON THE ADDITIONAL ARBORIST FEES AND WHEN THOSE COME INTO PLAY OF, OF A HOMEOWNER HAVING TO HIRE THEIR OWN ARBORIST, OR IS IT ONLY GONNA BE THE TWO 50 FROM THE CITY? JUST I DON'T, I DON'T THINK NECESSARILY AN ARBOR REPORT HAS TO COME IN WITH AN INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER 
          [03:00:02]
APPLYING FOR A PERMIT. 
          I MEAN, THAT'S PART OF WHY IT, SO THAT'S BEING PART OF, PART OF THE PERMIT PROCESS, UM, IS, IS TO HAVE THAT SERVICE. 
          SO, UH, IF THE CONSULTING ARBORIST OR URBAN FORESTER WHAT, WHATEVER IT IS, UM, AT THROUGH TIME THEY'RE GOING OUT AND OFFERING THAT. 
          UH, SO THAT AN INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER WHO NECESSARILY GETS A LETTER FROM THEIR HOMEOWNER'S INSURANCE DOESN'T HAVE TO GO HIRE THEIR OWN ARBOR. 
          I GUESS I, I'M, I'M MIXING US UP HERE WITH BOTH THE, THAT SORT OF ALLOWABLE INSURANCE AND FOR APPROVAL AND THEN, AND THEN THE VARIETY OF SPOTS IN THE EXEMPTIONS THAT CALL FOR AN ARBORIST REPORT. 
          I THINK THE ONLY ONE THAT DOES IS THE IMMINENT HAZARDS, RIGHT. 
          UH, PUBLIC UTILITY, YOU NEED PUBLIC WORKS PROXIMITY TO THE FOUNDATION WHERE AN ARBORIST DOCUMENTS EXISTING DAMAGE AND OR LIKELIHOOD OF IMMINENT DAMAGE. 
          YEAH. 
          SO IT'S IN DEBATABLE WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN WRITING BY THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS, BUT CERTAINLY IN YEAH, C AND E, UH, SO PUBLIC UTILITY PROTECTION. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT'S WHEN IT'S, YOU KNOW, IN, IN A, IN A, A LINE, UM, A AN OVERHEAD LINE. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, YES. 
          AND PROXIMITY TO THE FOUNDATION. 
          IS THE ARBORIST THE RIGHT PERSON TO BE DOCUMENTING THE EXISTING DAMAGE OR LIKELIHOOD OF IMMINENT DAMAGE TO THE STRUCTURE? OR IS THAT MORE OF A MASONRY PERSON'S JOB OR A, MY, MY PLUMBER TELLING ME THERE'S, IT'S, IT'S USUALLY A PROPERTY OWNER. 
          YEAH. 
          'CAUSE AS, AS A CONSULTING ARBORIST, I, THAT'S A SITUATION YOU COME ACROSS A LOT WHERE LIKE A, A PLUMBER OR SOMEONE THAT'S REALLY NOT QUALIFIED AND DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT ROOTS SAYS THAT A TREE IS AT RISK OF BREAKING SOMETHING OR IS THE CAUSE OF SOME DAMAGE AND IT'S ACTUALLY NOT. 
          SO YEAH, THAT'S USUALLY AN ARBORIST'S CALL. 
          BUT AS FAR AS FOR QUALIFYING FOR AN EXEMPTION, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF TO BE DETERMINED AND KIND OF UP TO THE RISK TOLERANCE OF THE PERSON THAT'S GONNA HAVE THE TREE REMOVED. 
          YOU KNOW, IT'S HOW FAR YOU WANT TO GO WITH YOUR OWN DOCUMENTATION IN CASE SOMEONE CALLS THE TREE POLICE AND AN INVESTIGATOR HAS TO COME OUT. 
          HOW STRONG DO YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND YOUR CASE? AND SOME PEOPLE ARE FINE WITH JUST WINGING IT. 
          SURE. 
          AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T WANNA REMOVE A TREE EVEN IF IT'S EXEMPT UNLESS THEY'VE GOT LIKE A REPORT IN HAND. 
          SO THAT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE WITH THAT ANYWAY. 
          AND MAYBE SOME OF THAT LANGUAGE CAN BE CLEANED UP TO REMOVE THE REQUIREMENT FOR AN ARB REPORT IN THE EXEMPTIONS AND JUST MAKE IT A SUGGESTION. 
          BUT I, IN WORKING ON THIS ORDINANCE, THE IDEA WAS TO REMOVE, BECAUSE SO MANY DO REQUIRE AN ARBORIST REPORT ALONG WITH THE APPLICATION AND THEN PART OF THE APPLICATION FEE IS PAYING FOR THE CITY'S ARBORIST TO COME OUT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND TO REVIEW THAT. 
          AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I HAVE TO DO A LOT. 
          THAT JUST FEELS RIDICULOUS. 
          YEAH. 
          BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING SOMEONE PAY TWICE AND WE REALLY DIDN'T WANNA DO THAT HERE. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          WELL, UH, LAST THING THEN. 
          DO WE HAVE SOME SUGGESTED LANGUAGE TO ADJUST FOR IMMINENT SITUATIONS GIVEN THAT IF YOU HAVE AN IMMINENT SITUATION, IT'S PROBABLY TOO IMMINENT TO WAIT FOR AN ARBORIST AND A EXEMPTION TO A, A PERMIT? UM, SO I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS WE COULD DO. 
          WE COULD JUST CHANGE THE LANGUAGE TO, UH, SAY THAT REMOVAL OF A TREE THAT POSES AN IMMINENT THREAT IS EXEMPT AND, AND TAKE THE OTHER LANGUAGE OUT TO THAT POINT. 
          UM, WANTING TO ADD SOMETHING ALSO IN, IF WE'RE GONNA DO THAT, IF WE'RE GONNA TAKE OUT THE SHALL WITH THE ARBORIST REPORTS AND MAKE 'EM A MAY, THEN I THINK WE PROBABLY SHOULD ADD SOME LANGUAGE IN ABOUT SOMETHING ABOUT RECOMMENDING DOCUMENTATION FOR ALL EXEMPTIONS. 
          YEAH. 
          I MEAN, IMMINENT SITUATIONS IS A REALLY TOUGH ONE AND THAT'S ANOTHER ONE THAT IS IN A LOT OF ORDINANCES. 
          UM, BUT SO IN OUR INDUSTRY, IMMINENT HAS A CLEAR DEFINITION OF FAILURE HAS ALREADY STARTED OR IS LIKELY TO OCCUR IN THE NEAR FUTURE EVEN WITHOUT A A WEATHER EVENT. 
          SO IT'S PRETTY SPECIFIC. 
          AND MAYBE WE NEED TO ADD A DEFINITION OF IMMINENT IN HERE, BUT YOU ALSO GET A DISAGREEMENT AMONG ARBORISTS OF WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING IS IMMINENT. 
          [03:05:01]
SO I, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE TO JUST NOT HAVE THAT IN EXEMPTIONS AND HAVE THAT HAVE A, A SECTION THAT'S DISCUSSES IMMINENT SITUATIONS SPECIFICALLY AND THE IDEA OF MAYBE GETTING A RETROACTIVE PERMIT FOR THAT IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE IS REALLY THAT SCARED ABOUT AND THEY CAN'T WAIT TILL MONDAY TO GET IT DOWN. 
          WHICH THOSE ARE RARE, SUPER RARE SITUATIONS. 
          SO THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT I THINK IT'S EASY TO GET HUNG UP ON THIS, BUT IT REALLY DOESN'T COME UP VERY OFTEN. 
          AND IMMINENT SITUATIONS ARE USUALLY LIKE DURING CRAZY STORMS WHEN TREES ARE FALLING DOWN EVERYWHERE. 
          WELL THAT'S, THAT'S SORT OF THE USE CASE I'M TRYING TO THINK THROUGH IS IF WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, A BIG WIND STORM AND A BUNCH OF PEOPLE ARE AFFECTED AND YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT THE IAC WEBSITE AND THERE'S SEVEN LICENSED ARBORISTS IN PETALUMA AND LIKE EVERYONE'S CALLING THEM AND TRYING TO GET ALL OF THEIR DOCUMENTATION IN ORDER SO THEY DON'T GET IN TROUBLE WHEN THEY TAKE DOWN THE TREE THAT'S ABOUT TO FALL IN THEIR HOUSE. 
          LIKE I JUST DON'T, I, I'M LIKE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WORKS IN A WAY THAT'S REASONABLE FOR, AND MAYBE THAT'S LIKE A CRAZY SITUATION THAT NEVER HAPPENS. 
          UM, BUT I'VE SEEN SOME TREES PRETTY DAMAGED IN SOME STORMS THIS WINTER. 
          UM, AND WAITING FOR AN ARBORIST TO COME TELL ME THAT YES, IT IS DANGEROUS AND THEN WAITING FOR THE DIRECTOR TO APPROVE THAT REPORT, UM, FEELS BURDENSOME. 
          YEAH. 
          IS, IS THERE A WAY FOR SOME OF THE EXEMPTIONS TO HAVE A BURDEN OF PROOF? I THINK, HEATHER, YOU WERE KIND OF TALKING ABOUT IT, WHERE WE REFERENCE SOME BURDEN OF PROOF THAT YOU QUALIFIED FOR AN EXEMPTION AND THAT MAYBE AN ARBORIST REPORT. 
          UM, AND MAYBE THINK THROUGH WHAT THOSE THRESHOLDS COULD BE. 
          'CAUSE I, I DO WANT PEOPLE TO COMPLY WITH THIS VOLUNTARILY. 
          I DO WANT TO HAVE SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE CAN, YOU KNOW, QUALIFY FOR EXEMPTIONS AND NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO, AND AND HOPEFULLY THEY ARE RARE OCCURRENCES, SO WE WON'T SEE TONS OF EXEMPTIONS. 
          OF COURSE PEOPLE MAY ABUSE THAT. 
          SO, UM, IN THAT EVENT, LIKE REFERENCE SOME KIND OF BACKUP, WHETHER THAT'S THEM TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS OR SOMETHING, BUT NOT MAKE IT TOO WEAK. 
          I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT RIGHT BALANCE IS, BUT I AGREE. 
          I THINK, I THINK REQUIRING AN ARBORIST FOR AN EXEMPTION OPENS UP, UM, AN AREA WHERE PEOPLE WON'T SUPPORT IT AND WON'T VOLUNTARILY COMPLY. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND THAT IS, UH, SORT OF UNPRECEDENTED. 
          THAT'S NOT HOW IT IS IN MOST, IN ANY MUNICIPALITY THAT I KNOW. 
          IF SOMETHING'S EXEMPT, IT'S JUST EXEMPT. 
          AND THE MOST THAT YOU SEE IN MARIN COUNTY IS LIKE, THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION TO DOCUMENT IT. 
          AND, AND SOMETIMES THAT RECOMMENDATION IS TO GET AN ARBOR REPORT, BUT IT'S NEVER REQUIRED AHEAD OF TIME. 
          AND I'LL JUST ADD TOO, DARREN AND BEN, LEMME KNOW IF I'M WRONG, BUT FOR ANY CODE VIOLATION, IF THE BURDEN OF THE PROOF IS ON THE CODE OFFICER FOR THE CITY TO PROVE THAT, AND THEN IT WOULD BE ON THE, YOU KNOW, SUBJECT PROPERTY OWNER TO PROVE THAT THE VIOLATION DIDN'T EXIST. 
          SO IN A NORMAL SITUATION, I THINK YOU HAVE A NEIGHBOR COMPLAINS ABOUT A TREE GETTING CUT DOWN, THE CITY WOULD MEET THEIR BURDEN OF PROOF 'CAUSE THEY COULD SEE, YOU KNOW, A STUMP WHERE THE TREE USED TO BE. 
          AND THEN IT WOULD BE ON THAT PROPERTY OWNER TO PROVE, OKAY, I FIT WITHIN ONE OF THESE EXEMPTIONS. 
          SO DEFINITELY DOCUMENTATION WOULD HELP HERE. 
          UM, AND WE COULD ADD LANGUAGE UNDER THIS WHOLE SECTION THAT FOR ANY OF THESE EXEMPTIONS, THAT, THAT IT IS STRONGLY RECOMMENDED THAT THE, THE, THE PROPERTY OWNER MAINTAINS PROOF DOCUMENT ADEQUATE DOCUMENTATION TO, UM, JUSTIFY THE EXEMPTION OR THE REMOVAL UNDER THE EXEMPTION. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND IF IT'S AN IMMINENT SITUATION, UH, MOST LIKELY YOU'RE HAVING A TREE SERVICE COME OUT TO WORK ON IT. 
          AND THIS IS ONLY GONNA BE AN ISSUE PERMIT WISE IF SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, A NEIGHBOR CALLS CODE ENFORCEMENT. 
          SO YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE KIND OF LIKE PAIN IN THE BUTT NEIGHBOR AND YOU'RE PROBABLY GONNA HAVE A TREE SERVICE THAT CAN COME AND TELL YOU, YEAH, THIS THING WAS GETTING READY TO FALL OVER. 
          AND I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR HOW I LIKE TO ENFORCE THESE THINGS AND INTERPRET CODES, BUT I'M NOT TRYING TO GO MAKE THINGS HARD FOR SOMEONE THAT JUST LOST A TREE . 
          BUT IF SOMEONE IS SAYING, YEAH, IT WAS IMMINENT AND IT WAS GONNA FALL OVER, AND I GO OUT AND IT'S LIKE, WELL WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY STORMS. CAN I TALK TO YOUR TREE COMPANY? NO, I DIDN'T USE A TREE COMPANY. 
          YOU KNOW, THEN IT'S LIKE, WELL, YOU KIND OF, YOU DIDN'T DO THE RIGHT THING HERE. 
          SO THAT'S, CAN, CAN WE JUST WALK THROUGH DOING THE RIGHT THING, HOW IT WOULD WORK IF AN, IF THERE WAS AN IMMINENT THREAT BEAT BY BEAT? WELL IF, AS IT'S WRITTEN NOW, IF WE LEAVE IT THE WAY THAT IT IS, BUT TAKE OUT THE PART ABOUT 
          [03:10:01]
THE REPORT FROM A CERTIFIED ARBORIST, IT'S A SITUATION WHERE SOMEONE FEELS SOMETHING IS IMMINENT AND THEY HIRE A TREE COMPANY. 
          AND THE TREE COMPANY WHO IDEALLY IS FAMILIAR WITH IT, NEW ORDINANCE AND RECOGNIZES LIKE, OH, YOU PROBABLY NEED A PERMIT FOR THIS 'CAUSE IT'S GONNA CATCH ON. 
          TREE COMPANIES ARE PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH THE ORDINANCES THAT ARE IN THE DIFFERENT PLACES WHERE THEY WORK. 
          UM, THEY'RE GONNA LOOK AT IT AND SAY, YEAH, THIS IS IMMINENT, LET'S GET IT DOWN. 
          AND YOU GET IT DOWN AND YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE SOME PICTURES AND THAT'S IT. 
          THAT'S HOW IT'S WRITTEN. 
          NOW IF WE JUST TAKE OUT THE ARBOR REPORT, IF WE TAKE OUT THE ARBORIST REPORT AND WE ARE PLANNING TO DO SOME OUTREACH TO TREE COMPANIES IN THE AREA WITH THE NEW ORDINANCE AND MAKING THEM AWARE OF THE NEW ORDINANCE, DOES TAKING OUT THE ARBORIST REPORT IN THAT WAY ALIGN WITH SIMILAR MUNICIPALITIES? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE THAT CHANGE TONIGHT? SUGGESTED, YEAH. 
          MAKE A MOTION IN MAJORITY. 
          SO WE'LL SAY THAT TO, SORRY, QUESTIONS HAVE GOTTEN OUTTA HAND. 
          SORRY, EVERYBODY. 
          UM, ANY OTHER QUESTION? NO, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE. 
          NO, I KNOW. 
          I, WE TRY TO KEEP IT CONCISE AND WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END AND THEN SAVE THE REST FOR, FOR COMMENTS. 
          AND I'LL JUST ADD TOO CHAIR, IT MIGHT BE GOOD TO HAVE A DEFINITION OF WHAT IMMINENT IS. 
          I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE PUBLIC CONTRACT CODE WHERE WE'RE ALLOWED TO BYPASS OUR BIDDING EXCEPTIONS IF IT'S AN EMERGENCY. 
          AND THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A FIRE ON THE HILL AND WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO GO DO BIDS FOR THREE FIRE HOSES. 
          UM, SO JUST KIND OF BETTER EXPLAIN WHAT AN IMMINENT SITUATION MIGHT BE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND I'LL JUST ADD TO THE PUBLIC CONTRACT CODE DEFINITION. 
          I'M LOOKING AT IT, IT HAS, YOU KNOW, SUDDEN UNEXPECTED OCCURRENCE THAT POSES A CLEAR AND IMMINENT THREAT. 
          SO YOU GOT IMMINENT AGAIN, UH, THAT REQUIRES IMMEDIATE ACTION TO PREVENT OR MITIGATE OR OF THE LOSS OF, UH, IMPAIRMENT OF LIFE, HEALTH OR PROPERTY, OR ESSENTIAL PUBLIC SERVICE, WHICH IS PROBABLY JUST SPECIAL FOR THE PUBLIC CONTRACT CODE, BUT, GOT IT. 
          OKAY. 
          QUESTIONS BEFORE WE MOVE TO PUBLIC COMMENT, COMMISSIONER? YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE NUISANCE SPECIES LIST AND I WAS WONDERING IF THERE WERE ANY SPECIFIC OTHER POTENTIAL SPECIES THAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED ON THAT LIST, OR IF THAT'S PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE OF THE TYPES OF SPECIES THAT ARE NUISANCES, PARTICULARLY HERE. 
          YEAH. 
          SO WE TRIED TO PUT A LIST TOGETHER THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY TREES THAT ARE BAD, THAT JUST SHOULDN'T BE HERE FOR DIFFERENT REASONS, BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE INVASIVE OR FALL OVER. 
          AND SOME OF THE SPECIES THAT YOU SEE ON EXEMPT LISTS AROUND THE BAY AREA THAT WE DIDN'T INCLUDE ARE LIKE MONTEREY PINE, BUT THERE ARE SOME INCREDIBLE MONTEREY PINES AND EUCALYPTUS TREES AROUND PETALUMA THAT I THINK SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE TO GET A PERMIT TO REMOVE. 
          UH, THERE'S SOME REALLY COOL HISTORIC WINDROWS OF BOTH OF THOSE SPECIES AND MONTEREY CYPRUS. 
          SO THESE ARE SPECIFICALLY JUST AWFUL. 
          WELL, PLUM IS NOT AWFUL, BUT IT'S INVASIVE AND NOT SUPER IMPORTANT. 
          DOESN'T LIKE PROVIDE A WHOLE LOT FOR WILDLIFE OR ANYTHING. 
          I MEAN, THAT'S THE ONE THAT I KIND OF, UH, PLUM. 
          I COULD, I COULD LEAVE IT ON THERE. 
          I TAKE IT OFF. 
          THE OTHER ONES ARE SPECIFICALLY LIKE, THEY'RE INVASIVE AND PROBLEMATIC. 
          IF THERE, THERE MIGHT BE ONE ON THERE THAT, OR THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAT COULD BE ADDED. 
          THESE ARE THE ONES THAT IN MY PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE, WE COME ACROSS THE MOST. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND WE WORKED A LOT WITH THE TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON, ON THAT LIST TOO. 
          THAT WAS AN, A DISCUSSION AT BOTH OF THE STUDY SESSIONS AS I RECALL. 
          UM, KIND OF, I KNOW WE HAD CHATTER LAST TIME ABOUT PALMS. MM-HMM . 
          WE ADDED IT RIGHT TO THE DEFINITION, TO THE DEFINITION OF TREE. 
          BUT IT DOES, BUT THEY'RE NOT NUISANCES. 
          THEY'RE NOT NUISANCES, OKAY. 
          IS A REASON LIQUID AMBER ISN'T A NUISANCE TREE. 
          IT'S NOT INVASIVE. 
          AND THERE ARE SOME BEAUTIFUL LIQUID AMBERS AROUND. 
          A LOT OF OUR SIDEWALK TREES ARE LIQUID AMBERS. 
          SO IF IT WAS ON THERE, PRESUMABLY PEOPLE COULD JUST REMOVE A LOT OF THE SIDEWALK TREES. 
          I MEAN, THEY'VE GOT THEIR ISSUES, BUT KIND OF ALL, THEY'RE NO LONGER A RECOMMENDED, UH, STREET TREE IN THE CITY. 
          YEAH. 
          THEY'RE NOT RECOMMENDED. 
          BUT I THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S A WIDE GULF BETWEEN RECOMMENDED AND NUISANCE. 
          ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? AND FROM THE WEB? OKAY. 
          LET'S MOVE ON TO PUBLIC COMMENT. 
          AND THANKS FOR, UH, THE FOLKS IN THE ROOM WHO'VE STUCK AROUND. 
          SO WITH THAT, WE WILL OPEN PUBLIC COMMENT. 
          THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO COMMENT ON THIS ITEM. 
          PUBLIC 
          [03:15:01]
COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON. 
          IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE SO ALREADY, PLEASE FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD AND BRING IT TO THE CLERK. 
          AND I'LL ASK, HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING? UH, YES. 
          WE RECEIVED ABOUT 10 PUBLIC COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING, ALL OF WHICH HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED ONLINE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND I'VE GOT TWO SPEAKER CARDS ANYMORE. 
          THOSE SEEM TO BE IT. 
          OKAY. 
          THEN WE'LL GO WITH CHARLES LITTLE, FOLLOWED BY WENDY JACOBS. 
          CAN WE SWITCH THAT AROUND? SURE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WENDY JACOBS, FOLLOWED BY CHARLES LITTLE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          THANK YOU FOR DOING THE HARD GROUNDWORK TO HELP OUR CITY ENGAGE WITH THIS IMPORTANT CLIMATE ACTION MATTER. 
          PETALUMA CAN BE A LEADER IN URBAN FORESTRY FOR ITS SIZE. 
          INDEED, WE HAVE BEEN HIGHLY PRAISED TO OTHER CITIES BY CAL FIRE AND THE US FOREST SERVICE, WITH REFERENCE BOTH TO OUR PLANTING OF NEW TREES, AS WELL AS ALL OF OUR WORK IN PROCESS ON THIS. 
          TPO AND UFMP HELP US CONTINUE AND EXTEND OUR CAREFUL LEADERSHIP AS WE MOVE TO UPDATE AND IMPROVE THIS IMPORTANT ORDINANCE. 
          SOME OF OUR CORE VOLUNTEERS, VERY HARDCORE VOLUNTEERS, ARE HERE TONIGHT TO THANK YOU AND ENCOURAGE YOU. 
          I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO QUICKLY READ A LIST OF PEER CITIES THAT HAVE TPOS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO THE PROPOSED ON SOME KEY POINTS THAT YOU HAVE EXPRESSED INTEREST IN. 
          THESE SIMILAR CITIES REQUIRE PERMITS FOR ALL TREE REMOVALS, INCLUDING BACKYARD REQUIRE ARBORIST REVIEW AND REPLACEMENTS. 
          CALISTOGA, 12 INCHES, ANY TREE, SIX INCHES, SOME OAKS ROSS, 12 INCHES, LARKSBURG 16 INCHES, CORDA MADERA, 16 INCHES, MILL VALLEY, MORE THAN THREE OVER SIX INCHES. 
          SAN ANSELMO, 22 INCHES, SAUSALITO 10 INCHES, SEBASTOPOL 20 INCHES NOVATO, 24 INCHES VILLE, 12 INCH, ANY TREE, 10 INCH OAK. 
          AND I HAVE TO NOTE THAT THESE ARE MUCH OLDER TREE PROTECTION ORDINANCES. 
          MOST OF THEM WRITTEN AND ENACTED AND ENFORCED BEFORE THE ERA THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY IN WHERE WE, WE KNOW SO MUCH MORE ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE. 
          SO WE REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR GETTING THIS ONTO THE NEXT STEP WITH THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          THANK YOU AGAIN. 
          THANK YOU, CHARLES. 
          LITTLE INDEED. 
          I AM CHARLES LITTLE. 
          UM, I'M A RETIRED TEACHER AND A HISTORIAN. 
          AND I LIVE, UH, UP ON, UH, BANTAM WAY NEXT TO THE JUNIOR HIGH, PRETTY CLOSE TO WHERE DARREN LIVES, I BELIEVE. 
          UM, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS, CITY STAFF AND, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER. 
          UM, AS YOU CAN SEE BY MY GREEN VEST AND GREEN SHIRT AND THE OCEAN OF GREEN THAT IS HERE, I'M SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE ORDINANCE. 
          I THINK IT'S A TERRIFIC THING THAT, UH, THAT, UH, HEATHER AND BEN HAVE PUT TOGETHER HERE. 
          I'M A A FANATIC TREE HUGGER, SO IT'S NOT PERFECT FOR ME, BUT BRINGING UP THE IDEA THAT THIS CAN BE ADJUSTED, CAN BE CHANGED TO SEE HOW THINGS WORK IS MUSIC TO MY EARS. 
          UH, THAT'S GREAT. 
          UM, THIS ORDINANCE ASKS ALL PROPERTY OWNERS TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE WELLBEING OF PETALUMA, NOT BY DOING SOMETHING NEW, BUT POTENTIALLY BY REFRAINING FROM REMOVING TREES IN THE FUTURE. 
          AS YOU KNOW, TREES BENEFIT NOT JUST INDIVIDUAL PROPERTIES, BUT TIRE NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE CITY AS A WHOLE. 
          RIGHT NOW, OUR TREE CANOPIES TOO SMALL. 
          WE NEED TO KEEP THE TREES WE HAVE WHILE NEW ONES GROW. 
          LIKE YOU WHO SERVE ON THIS COMMISSION, YOU ARE GIVING SOMETHING TO THIS TOWN TO MOVE IT FORWARD TO MAKE IT A BETTER PLACE. 
          AND SO WE'RE ASKING WITH THIS, WITH THIS ORDINANCE, OTHER PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN HELPING OUT A LITTLE BIT TOO. 
          UM, I THINK THIS IS REALLY THE RIGHT TIME TO DO THIS, AND I THINK THIS IS A GREAT STEP FORWARD. 
          UM, THAT'S MY POINT NUMBER ONE SECOND, AND I HOPE YOU'VE GOT THE THING THAT I SENT IN, UM, ABOUT TREE DIAMETER AND, UH, THE AGE OF TREES. 
          I DID A BUNCH OF RESEARCH. 
          I'M A HISTORIAN. 
          I LOVE TO DO RESEARCH. 
          UM, TREES TAKE A LONG TIME TO REPLACE, TO GROW, EXCUSE ME, NOT REPLACE. 
          AND THE RESEARCH THAT I DID, AND I SENT YOU THAT SUMMARY, THAT EVEN SMALL TREES, THOSE WITH TRUNK DIA DIAMETERS OF SIX TO 12 INCHES 
          [03:20:01]
CAN ALREADY BE DECADES OLD DEPENDING ON THE SPECIES. 
          ONCE REMOVED, THEIR ENVIRONMENTAL AND COMMUNITY VALUE IS LOST FOR MANY YEARS. 
          AND AS I THINK IT WAS, BRIAN POINTED OUT, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE TREE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING IN HERE, EVEN IT'S IN A BIG BOX, IT TICKS FOREVER FOR THEM TO GET TO THE SIZE OF THE TREE THAT'S BEEN REMOVED. 
          I SENT YOU SOME STATISTICS ABOUT PARTICULAR TREES. 
          THE LOWEST ONES I FOUND IN MY, EXCUSE ME, THE ONES THAT GREW THE FASTEST IN THE RESEARCH THAT I DID. 
          YOU TOOK A, YOU TAKE A MULTIPLIER OF TWO AND YOU MULTIPLY IT BY THE NUMBER OF DIAMETER INCHES OF DBH IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY HERE. 
          YOU GUYS KNOW ALL THAT, THAT, RIGHT? RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, AND THAT WOULD, THAT, THAT WOULD MEAN THAT A, UH, COAST LIVE OAK AT SIX INCHES, DBH WOULD ALREADY BE 10 YEARS OLD. 
          AND THAT'S A, THAT'S A, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT EXACT, BUT THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD ESTIMATE. 
          I EVEN TALKED TO, UH, BEN ABOUT THIS AND HE SORT OF AGREED WITH THAT. 
          SO YOU CAN TALK TO HIM FURTHER ABOUT THAT. 
          UM, SO ANYWAY, MY POINT BEING TREES OVER SIX INCHES, SORRY, YOUR TIME IS UP. 
          ARE TWO ARE SIMPLY TOO IMPORTANT TO SACRIFICE. 
          SIR, YOUR TIME IS UP. 
          IT HAS TO BE THROUGHOUT FOR EVERYBODY, NOT 12 INCHES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          WITH THAT WE'LL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT AND THE PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR CONSIDERATION, FURTHER COMMENTS, AND EVENTUALLY A MOTION TO VOTE BEFORE WE GET INTO WHAT I EXPECT IS GONNA BE A LOT OF DISCUSSION FOR MUTE. 
          UM, DO WE HAVE, UH, A CONSENSUS ABOUT THE ADJUSTMENT TO IMMINENT HAZARD AND REMOVAL OF THE ARBORIST REPORT REQUIREMENT FOR THAT? I WOULD, I WOULD SAY FOR EXEMPTIONS, YEAH, FOR EXEMPTIONS. 
          SO WHAT I HAD DOWN FOR THAT IS IN 1704 OH UNDER EXEMPTIONS, ADDING RECOMMENDATION FOR DOCUMENTATION AND ALSO REMOVING THE ARBORIST REQUIREMENT FROM THE IMMINENT SITUATIONS AND ADDING A DEFINITION OF IMMINENT SITUATION IN 1702. 
          OH, THAT SOUNDS RIGHT TO ME. 
          HOW DOES THAT SOUND ACROSS THE BOARD? THUMBS UP FROM EVERYBODY. 
          GREAT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, DO WE NEED TO DO A, UM, AMENDMENT OR THAT'LL JUST BE, UM, WHEN SOMEBODY MAKES A MOTION, WE CAN READ THAT INTO THE RECORD. 
          OKAY. 
          WE'LL READ THAT IN. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THEN WE CAN PUT THAT ONE DOWN AND COME BACK TO IT WHEN WE HAVE THE MOTION. 
          UM, OTHER COMMENTS, CONSIDERATIONS, COMMISSIONER REON? WELL, I'LL THANK YOU FOR GETTING THAT ONE, UM, BUTTONED DOWN. 
          I THINK I'LL, I'LL INTRODUCE REALLY THE BIG ONE TO ME, WHICH IS 17.070, WHICH IS THE REPLACEMENT RATIOS IN A DEVELOPMENT CONTEXT. 
          AND LET ME JUST GET THERE. 
          WE SAY ONE, ONE-TO-ONE REPLACEMENT RATIO, UH, ONE-TO-ONE, BUT THEN THERE'S KIND OF A TRANSLATION THAT HAPPENS THERE, RIGHT? IT DOESN'T MEAN ONE INCH OF TREE GETS REPLACED WITH ONE INCH OF SAPLING. 
          WE HAVE LIKE A TRANSLATION WITH DIFFERENT BOX INCH OR GALLON SIZES. 
          AND I THINK PETALUMA COMPARED TO OTHER MODEL OR ORDINANCES AND NOT THE MOST RESTRICTIVE, WE ARE VERY, VERY GENEROUS IN WHAT CREDIT WE GIVE FOR REPLACEMENT RATIOS. 
          SO LIKE A 48 INCH BOX REPLACEMENT TREE PLACES REPLACES A 24 INCH DIAMETER TREE. 
          THAT'S, IN MY MIND, NOT ONE TO ONE. 
          A 24 INCH DIAMETER TREE IS A PRETTY MASSIVE OLD TREE. 
          AND A 48 INCH BOX REPLACEMENT IS NOT BIG. 
          I MEAN, THAT'S NOT A BIG TREE BY ANY MEANS. 
          THAT'S GONNA NEED POLES IN THE GROUND TO STAND UP. 
          SO WE'RE NOT, IT'S NOT REALLY AN ADEQUATE REPLACEMENT. 
          I THINK IT PEN OR, AND I THINK IT PENALIZES OR, OR KIND OF GRADUALLY GOES DOWN IN SIGNIFICANCE. 
          LIKE THE BIGGER TREE YOU REMOVE, THE LESS REPLACEMENT YOU HAVE TO DO ALMOST IS HOW THIS READS TO ME RIGHT NOW THAT LIKE THE RATIO DRIFTS THE RATIO, THE RATIO DRIFTS. 
          AND I THINK THE DEVELOPMENT CONTEXT IS WHERE WE REALLY START TO GET INTO OPPORTUNITIES. 
          LIKE IF THIS RATIO GETS MORE STRICT OR MORE REPLACEMENT, WE GET MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR FUNDING IN A WAY BECAUSE THERE'S ONSITE REPLACEMENT, WHICH IS ALWAYS OUR PREFERENCE, AND STAFF CAN CORRECT ME HERE. 
          THERE'S OFFSITE REPLACEMENT, OFFSITE MITIGATION, AND THEN IN LIE FEES. 
          SO IF WE HAVE A HIGHER REPLACEMENT RATIO AND LET'S SAY THE SITE CAN'T ACCOMMODATE THE REPLACEMENT RATIO IN A DEVELOPMENT CONTEXT, THAT'S OKAY. 
          THEN SUDDENLY WE OPEN UP THESE OTHER AVENUES INCLUDING IN LIE FEES, WHICH IN THE SCALE OF A DEVELOPMENT PROJECT AREN'T, MAY NOT BE EXTREME 
          [03:25:01]
WHERE WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE IN LIE FEES YET. 
          BUT IT OPENS UP THESE LIKE FUNDING OPPORTUNITIES. 
          SO FOR, LIKE, WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE RESIDENTIAL USE CASE. 
          'CAUSE I THINK A LOT OF US RESONATE WITH THAT. 
          AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF FEEDBACK WE'VE HEARD ABOUT THE ORDINANCE COMES FROM. 
          BUT I JUST WANT TO GAUGE IF ANYONE'S OPEN, AND I HAD, I HAD AN EXAMPLE REPLACEMENT RATIO JUST FOR THE SAKE OF SOMETHING ELSE TO COMPARE IT TO AS LIKE 15 GALLON IS A TWO INCH REPLACEMENT, TRUNK DIAMETER, BUT THEN 24 INCH BOX INSTEAD OF COUNTING FOR EIGHT INCHES WOULD COUNT FOR 4 36 INCH BOX TREE INSTEAD OF COUNTING FOR 16 INCHES OF TRUNK WOULD COUNT FOR SIX INCHES OF TRUNK AND THEN 48 INCH, UH, BOX, INSTEAD OF ACCOUNTING FOR 24 INCHES OF REPLACEMENT OF TRUNK WOULD BE EIGHT INCHES. 
          SO IT'S A KIND OF A TWO TO THREE TIMES DIFFERENCE, BUT I THINK IN THE CONTEXT OF DEVELOPMENT, WE WOULD ACTUALLY GET BETTER OUTCOMES BECAUSE I THINK WHAT WE HAVE NOW JUST DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T WORK. 
          WOULD THAT, WOULD THAT POTENTIALLY PUSH DEVELOPERS TO JUST DO A BUNCH MORE LITTLE GUYS AND THEN OUR CANOPY IS EVEN FURTHER DOWN THE LINE AND, AND MAYBE THE SPECIES CHOICES AREN'T AS GRAND? THAT, THAT'S WHERE I WOULD START TO THINK OF, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE DOING THE COST OF LIKE, WELL NOW WE CAN PAY FOR A BUNCH OF FIFTEENS. 
          I DON'T KNOW, IS THAT, THAT'S LIKE MAYBE A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT QUESTION, BUT YII DON'T THINK YOU GET THERE AND I THINK WE'D STILL END UP WITH MORE CANOPY LONG TERM IF WE DID IT THIS WAY. 
          CAN I ALSO, UM, OUR EXISTING ORDINANCE HAS MUCH LARGER REPLACEMENT, SO I'M NOT, I HAVE TO SAY I'M NOT SURE HOW WE GOT HERE IN THIS PROCESS. 
          LIKE I REMEMBER US TWEAKING ON SOME OF THE RATIOS THROUGH THE DIFFERENT STUDY SESSIONS, BUT THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, AND ANDREW, CORRECT ME IF I'M NOT READING THIS RIGHT, BUT SAYS FOUR DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, REPLACEMENT TREE RATIO SHALL BE APPLIED AS FOLLOW 24 INCH BOX REPLACEMENT FOR A TWO INCH REPLACEMENT, TRUNK DIAMETER, 32 6 INCH BOX REPLACEMENT FOR A THREE INCH TRUNK REPLACEMENT AND 48 INCH BOX REPLACEMENT TREE FOR A FOUR INCH TRUNK REPLACEMENT. 
          I LIKE IT A LOT. 
          . 
          UM, SO IT'S A, WHAT HAPPENED? I, I'M NOT SURE HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE GOT IN SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS. 
          SO THAT UP DEVELOPMENTS HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW WITH TREE REPLACEMENT? YES. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          AND, AND THEY DO PAY, GENERALLY THAT IS NOT ALL HAPPENING ON SITE. 
          UM, BUT WHAT WE DO IS THEY DO SOME ON SITE. 
          WE LOOK AT THEIR PLAN, WE ENCOURAGE THEM TO DO, YOU KNOW, PRESERVE, REPLANT ON SITE, PLANT ON SITE OR NEIGHBORING, LIKE I FEEL LIKE THE, UM, RIVER BEND PROJECT, PUT SOME TREES IN THE PUBLIC SPACE ALONG LYNCH CREEK TRAIL AS SOME OF THEIR REPLACEMENT. 
          AND THEN THERE'S A EQUATION THAT YOU GET FOR THE OTHER ONE THAT GENERATES MM-HMM . 
          IN LIEU THAT GOES INTO THE TREE FUND. 
          AND THEN I THINK TOO, WE ENCOURAGE THEM TO PLANT THE LARGER TREES, UM, WHEN POSSIBLE. 
          SO I'M NOT SURE I, I DON'T RECALL WHAT THAT, SO I, I LOOKS LIKE, SO I JUST, AS YOU WERE TALKING, I WAS LIKE, THESE FEEL SMALLER THAN, AND SO WHAT IS IN OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE IS MUCH MORE ROBUST. 
          I, I LIKE THE CURRENT ORDINANCES REPLACEMENT VALUES. 
          I'LL LOOK FOR COMMENT AND DISCUSSION, BUT THAT WOULD BE MY PROPOSAL FOR THE GROUP. 
          I, THIS IS A QUESTION FOR, UM, BEN, THE, UM, NOTING THAT LARGER BOXES COST A LOT MORE 15 GALLON TREES, A LOT, A LOT LESS LIKE, UM, IN TERMS OF VALUE TO OUR TREE CANOPY, LIKE HOW MUCH FARTHER BEHIND IS A, UM, YOU KNOW, A 36 INCH BOX VERSUS A 15 GALLON, LIKE IN TERMS OF YEARS. 
          BECAUSE IF PEOPLE, MY, AND WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS IS LIKE SOMEONE CUTS DOWN A TREE INSTEAD OF HAVING TO PAY A BUNCH OF MONEY FOR A BIG BOX, LIKE BUY A BUNCH OF TREES AND LIKE, LET'S USE IT AS LIKE THE, OUR PATHWAY TO 10,000, RIGHT? BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE HAVE 10,000 TREES LIKE FULLY FUNDED RIGHT NOW. 
          RIGHT? SO LIKE, LET'S USE THAT AS LIKE, THIS IS OUR PATHWAY TO, TO THAT. 
          AND IF IT'S ONLY THREE YEARS BEHIND AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE TREES THAT ARE GONNA BE THERE FOREVER, LIKE MAYBE THE SIZE OF THE BOX IS LESS IMPORTANT TO US. 
          AND REALLY IT'S LIKE, HOW DO WE GET MORE TREES LIKE CIRCULATING INTO OUR LOVELY NONPROFITS THAT ARE OUT THERE DOING THE LORD'S WORK? THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION THOUGH. 
          WHAT'S THE, OH MAN, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. 
          YEAH. 
          15. 
          THANKS. 
          THANKS FOR BRINGING THAT UP. 
          YES. 
          SMALLER IS BETTER. 
          THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BOX SIZES TYPICALLY JUST DISAPPEARS OVER THE FIRST FEW YEARS BECAUSE THE SMALLER ONES ESTABLISHED SO FASTER. 
          AND I MEAN, I THINK RELEAF HAS LEARNED THIS 
          [03:30:01]
IN PLANTING EVEN JUST THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 15 GALLON AND A FIVE GALLON. 
          A LOT OF THOSE FIVE GALLONS THEY PUT IN THAT ARE LIKE $15 OR WHATEVER TO BUY ARE THE SAME SIZE AS SOME OF THE FIFTEENS THAT THEY PUT IN A FEW YEARS AGO. 
          AND THAT'S KIND OF JUST GENERALLY TRUE. 
          THE, THE BIGGER BOX YOU BUY, THE COST STARTS GOING UP. 
          IT'S NOT QUITE EXPONENTIAL, BUT IT'S NEAR EXPONENTIAL. 
          AND THEN THE PLANTING DIFFICULTY, ALL THAT STUFF JUST GOES THROUGH THE ROOF AND YOU GET JUST THAT ONE TREE. 
          YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO PLANT SMALLER IS BETTER. 
          SO I DON'T KNOW THAT WE ARE, WE'RE NOT LIKE RIPPING OPEN THE, THE ORDINANCE THAT YOU, OUR EXISTING ORDINANCE THAT YOU'RE ALREADY, THAT YOU JUST REFERENCED. 
          RIGHT? WE'RE NOT ABLE TO TO TOUCH THAT TONIGHT. 
          AND I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A RATIO FOR, LIKE, WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD RATIO FOR LIKE A MULTIPLIER LET'S SAY, RIGHT? IF WE JUST SAID IT'S 15 GALLON TREES, RIGHT? AND IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH, BUT LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S A MULTIPLIER BASED ON LIKE THE DIAMETER OF THE TREE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, RIGHT? AND YOU'RE JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST GONNA SAY YOU GOTTA BUY FIVE FOR EVERY TWO INCHES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW? OH, AND ONLY DO FIFTEENS ONLY DO FIFTEENS. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT JUST LIKE BASED LIKE, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THE, THE IDEA IS JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE LARGER THE TREE YOU HAVE, THE MORE YOU HAVE TO PLANT, RIGHT? NOT LIKE THE LARGER THE BOX YOU HAVE TO PLANT, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          SO MOST PEOPLE PAY THE IN LIE FEE FOR MOST OF THE TREES IN MY EXPERIENCE BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE DOING LIKE A BIGGER DEVELOPMENT, YOU END UP HAVING LIKE A HUGE REPLACEMENT NUMBER MM-HMM . 
          RIGHT? AND IF THAT DOESN'T GET, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. 
          I THINK THAT'S GREAT. 
          WE, WE HAVE A GOAL TO GET 10,000 TREES. 
          I WANT TO LIKE, I'M FINE WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN ANYTHING I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE LIKE, AND SO IF YOU GET THE MONEY OR THE TREES, IF YOU REDUCE THE RA, IF YOU INK PRODUCE THE RATIO, INCREASE THE RATIO. 
          WHAT WENT MORE TO THIS, OUR EXISTING, SO IF YOU SAID, OKAY, UH, YOU KNOW, A A 15 INCH BOX REPLACEMENT FOR EACH TWO INCHES OF TRUNK DIAMETER AND YOU DIDN'T, AND YOU DIDN'T, YOU DIDN'T NECESSARILY DO 24 INCH, 36, 48, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE REPLACEMENT THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO IS A TON OF 15 GALLON. 
          BUT IF YOU THEN JUST SAID, AND EVERY 15 GALLON IS $500 OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT IS. 
          I MEAN, I WISH I HAD IT AT MY FINGERTIPS, BUT SOME OF THE REPLACEMENT VALUES ON, UH, OR THE REPLACEMENT REQUIREMENTS ON A DEVELOPMENT PROJECT THAT'S COMING IN AND TAKING OUT A BUNCH OF TREES AND FOR EACH TWO INCHES YOU, YOU'VE GOT HUNDREDS OF INCHES. 
          YEAH. 
          THOUSANDS MAYBE THAT YOU'RE HAVING TO, TO COMPENSATE FOR. 
          SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE MORE 15 GALLON TREES THAN YOU'RE EVER GONNA BE ABLE TO REPLANT ON A PROPERTY THAT YOU THEN DEVELOP. 
          SO THEN YOU GET IN LU FEESS AND YOU SAY, OKAY, SO FOR EACH OF THAT YOU CAN PLANT 115 GALLON TREES ON YOUR PROPERTY OR YOU CAN PAY FIVE, $500 FOR EACH OF THE HUNDRED THAT YOU NEED TO PLANT. 
          AND THAT GOES INTO A FUND TO FUND PLANTING, YOU KNOW, PLANTING EFFORTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY. 
          SO WE'RE STILL GETTING THE CANOPY, UH, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SUGGESTING, I GUESS IS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT MULTIPLIER IS ON THAT, YOU KNOW, BUT LIKE SOMEHOW LIKE TAKING A MULTIPLIER AND JUST PER INCH OF TREE THAT RE THAT YOU'RE REMOVING, THAT'S HOW MANY 15 GALLON, YOU KNOW, THINGS YOU HAVE TO BUY OR, OR GIVING A NEW FEE EQUIVALENT TO THAT. 
          UM, JUST SO THAT WE CONTINUE TO CREATE THIS, 'CAUSE I MEAN, IN THE, IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS, LIKE YOU CAN SAY LIKE, YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF LIKE GAMING OUR 10,000 TREE GOAL, RIGHT? WE INSTALLED 10,000 TREES AND WE DID IT ON THE BACK OF REMOVING A HUNDRED REALLY OLD MATURE TREES, RIGHT? SO LIKE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, GAMESMANSHIP IN THERE I GUESS. 
          BUT LIKE, I GUESS THOSE 10,000 TREES ARE ULTIMATELY GONNA CREATE A BEAUTIFUL CANOPY SOMEDAY, SO IT'S WORTH IT. 
          RIGHT? UM, BUT THAT'S WHERE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT RATIO IS, BUT LIKE MAYBE WE CAN PUNT THAT AND YOU CAN BRING BACK SOMETHING FOR THE COUNCIL AND WE CAN, YOU KNOW, DO SOME THINKING ON THAT OR WHATEVER. 
          WELL, WE COULD WALK THROUGH A SCENARIO RIGHT NOW. 
          SO LET'S SAY THERE WAS A DEVELOPMENT PROJECT THAT WANTED TO REMOVE EIGHT TREES THAT WERE 25 INCHES IN DIAMETER, WHICH IS NOT AN UNREALISTIC SCENARIO LIKE THAT HAPPENS. 
          SO THAT WORKS OUT TO 200 INCHES OF REPLACEMENT TREE, RIGHT? IF WE SAID THAT EVERY 15 GALLON WAS TWO INCHES, THEY'VE GOT A HUNDRED TREES FOR REPLACEMENT TREES. 
          AND LET'S SAY THAT WE ALLOW ANY TREE THAT YOU PLANT 
          [03:35:01]
HAS TO BE AT LEAST 15 GALLONS ON YOUR SITE IF YOU WANT TO GO BIGGER, GO FOR IT. 
          BUT THAT STILL JUST COUNTS AS ONE OF YOUR REPLACEMENT TREES TO KIND OF ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO PLANT SMALLER. 
          LET'S SAY THEY PUT 10 TREES BACK ON THEIR SITE, THEN THEY'VE GOT 90 TREES AS REPLACEMENT TREES THAT THEY COULD PAY THE IN LIE FEE. 
          AND IF WE DID LIKE A JUMPING OFF POINT OF $500 FOR AN IN LIE FEE, WHICH ISN'T NOT UNREASONABLE AT ALL FOR A 15 GALLON PLANTED, THAT'S $45,000. 
          SO JUST TO GIVE YOU A BALLPARK OF LIKE WHERE SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS PLAY OUT IN A REALISTIC SCENARIO, IS A 15 GALLON A 15 GALLON TREE, IS THAT REALLY $500 TO GET IT PLANTED BY A PROFESSIONAL? YOU'RE YOU'RE APPROACHING THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT WE USUALLY SEE SO MANY MORE TREE, LIKE YOUR ESTIMATE OF THEY PLANT 10 TREES FEELS LOW TO ME. 
          YEAH. 
          I MEAN WE COULD PICK APART ANY OF MY NUMBERS. 
          I WAS JUST THROWING SOMETHING OUT. 
          SURE. 
          NO, NO, NO. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I GUESS I DON'T WANT, I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT IT AND BRING IT TO COUNCIL, BUT LIKE, LET'S JUST LIKE, MAYBE AS PART OF LIKE OUR DIRECTION IS JUST LIKE THE DIRECTION TO YOU IS TO LIKE COME TO US WITH WHAT A EFFECTIVE RATIO IS, OR MAYBE THAT'S PART OF THE FEES, RIGHT? LIKE I GUESS IT'S NOT EVEN IN THE ORDINANCE IF IT'S GONNA BE PART OF THE FEES, RIGHT? SO YEAH. 
          UM, WE CAN PUNT THAT CONVERSATION ENTIRELY MAYBE, BUT LIKE, I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO TREAT THIS. 
          BUT YOU WOULD STILL, YOU WOULD STILL SUGGEST MODIFICATIONS TO THE IN-KIND REPLA THE REPLACEMENT RATIO AND SAY SOMETHING TO BEN'S POINT ABOUT, UH, YOU KNOW, LARGER TREES DO NOT COUNT AS ADDITIONAL TRUNK INCHES, UM, TO ENCOURAGE SMALLER TREE PLANTING PROPOSE ON SOMETHING. 
          CAN WE, I HAVE A QUESTION. 
          UM, COMMISSIONER, NO. 
          THIS, THIS APPROACH SOUNDS GREAT. 
          I'M WONDERING AT WHAT POINT DO WE CROSS A LINE INTO THERE'S THE LACK OF PROPORTIONALITY OR SOME KIND OF, YOU KNOW, OUR EXACTION IS, IS UH, RIGHT. 
          UH, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. 
          UH, COMMISSIONER NEWELL THAT, YOU KNOW, ANY CONDITION, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS NEW SHEETS CASE THAT CAME OUT A COUPLE YEARS AGO, THERE NEEDS TO BE IN PROPORTION AND A NEXUS. 
          SO, UH, WHATEVER NUMBER WE COME AT, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT THAT IT'S IN PROPORTION. 
          YEAH. 
          SO THAT MAYBE IS TO COUNCIL MEMBER AL'S POINT IS LET'S TRY TO ADDRESS THAT NEXT MONDAY. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT, AND IF NOTHING ELSE, WE'VE GOT THE PREVIOUS VERSION WAS SAY C3 FOUR. 
          SO TO, TO HEATHER'S POINT, WE'VE GOT A REALLY GOOD VERSION TO FALL BACK ON. 
          I THINK WE'RE ALL AGREED THAT PART C, THE CURRENT RATIOS THAT HOWEVER WE ENDED UP HERE, WE WENT DOWN A WAY WRONG PATH. 
          AND WE EITHER NEED TO GO BACK TO WHAT WE HAVE IN CURRENT REPLACEMENT OR DEVELOP SOMETHING EVEN SUPERIOR. 
          SO THAT'S GREAT. 
          THAT WAS MY MAIN GREAT, THANK YOU. 
          COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN, DID YOU HAVE, OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WE'VE GOT THE REVISION ON IMMINENT AND WE'VE GOT NOW A REVISION HERE ON THE REPLACEMENT IN DEVELOPMENT PROJECT, UH, 17.07 C. 
          UM, OTHER COMMENTS THAT WE WISH TO VOICE? GO AHEAD. 
          I JUST WANTED TO CHECK IF THERE'S THAT TO FOLLOW UP ON CHARLES. 
          GREAT COMMENT. 
          AND I THINK WHAT WE SAW IN PUBLIC COMMENTS AND WHAT I'VE SEEN FROM OTHER NEWER MODEL ORDINANCES LIKE BURLINGAME, LIKE PALO ALTO, UM, IF THERE'S AN APPETITE FOR OUR RESIDENTIAL EXEMPTION EXEMPTION TO BE ANYTHING UNDER 12 INCHES, I WANTED TO TEST THAT WITH THE REST OF PLANNING COMMISSION BEFORE WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME PROSELYTIZING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF TREES. 
          I I WAS THINKING TO MYSELF, YOU KNOW, I THINK EIGHT INCHES WOULD BE A GREAT FALLBACK IF WE THINK TWO INCHES IS, IS TOO AGGRESSIVE OR SIX INCHES, EXCUSE ME, IS TOO AGGRESSIVE. 
          UM, I'D SAY SIX INCHES BECOMING MORE OF THE NORM. 
          BEN, YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I THINK THAT STANDS OUT IN OUR AREAS, LIKE BECOMING MORE OF THE NORM. 
          UM, BUT I JUST WANTED TO TEST EVERYONE'S FEELINGS ABOUT THAT. 
          I THINK THERE ARE SO MANY PASSIONATE ARGUMENTS FOR WHY A SIX TO 12 INCH TREE IS STILL VERY SIGNIFICANT IN TERMS OF THE CANOPY, THE GROWTH, EVERYTHING ELSE IT REPRESENTS. 
          BUT I WANTED TO PUT THAT TO THE COMMITTEE, UH, HOW COMFORTABLE THEY FELT WITH THAT. 
          AND I WISH I HAD BROUGHT A PROP OF A DIAMETER OF, HERE'S A 12 HERE THAT, BUT YEAH, JUST PUTTING THAT TO THE REST OF THE COMMITTEE. 
          'CAUSE MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE SIX INCHES, AGAIN, FALLBACK OF EIGHT INCHES. 
          BUT THOUGHTS, CAN WE, CAN WE YOU OPINE ON THAT AND LIKE THE, THE SORT OF, LET'S SAY THE TRADE OFF IN TERMS OF TREE CANOPY IN TERMS, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          LOST, 
          [03:40:01]
UM, LOST TIME, LOST CANOPY, SOME SOMETHING TO LIKE, OTHER THAN LIKE JUST 8, 10, 12. 
          WHY NOT SIX? YOU KNOW, LIKE, I LIKE WHAT IS THE, THE SORT OF RATIONALE FOR THIS STUFF? WHAT SHOULD WE BE CONSIDERING WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THIS? I GUESS, UM, I MEAN, WHAT'S PALATABLE TO EVERYBODY THAT'S INVOLVED REALLY, IT'S REALLY, I DON'T KNOW. 
          IT'S NOT GONNA BE A SCIENCE ANSWER FOR THIS ONE. 
          IT'S GONNA BE WHAT FEELS GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE TO EVERYONE. 
          BECAUSE LIKE WENDY SAID IN FAIRFAX, IT'S FOUR INCHES. 
          NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO REMOVE A TREE THAT'S, THAT'S MORE THAN FOUR INCHES IN DIAMETER WITHOUT A PERMIT. 
          AND THEY'RE ALL JUST USED TO THAT AND NOBODY REALLY COMPLAINS ABOUT IT ANYMORE THAN THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT ALL THE OTHER REGULATIONS. 
          UH, GETTING THIS THING APPROVED AND PUSHED THROUGH IS KIND OF THE ONLY REASON THAT IT'S AT 12 INCHES RIGHT NOW IS FROM THE COMMENT THAT WE GOT LAST TIME WE WERE HERE. 
          THAT SEEMED LIKE A, A CONCESSION THAT WAS GONNA MAKE IT MORE PALATABLE AND EASIER ON INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS. 
          AND I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR HOW MANY TREES ARE INCLUDED IN WHAT NEEDS A PERMIT, HOW ENFORCEABLE IT IS. 
          I DON'T KNOW, LIKE TREES THAT ARE LESS THAN 12 INCHES ON A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. 
          I DON'T THINK THAT'S SUPER ENFORCEABLE. 
          I THINK PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE REMOVING THOSE WITHOUT A PERMIT WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE IT AT SIX INCHES OR 12 INCHES. 
          SO IN MY MIND IT'S LIKE, WHY NOT JUST LEAVE IT AT SIX? YEAH. 
          'CAUSE PEOPLE ARE STILL GONNA BE REMOVING THOSE TREES. 
          BUT IT'S, IT'S AN, IT'S SOMETHING TO GIVE THEM PAUSE BEFORE THEY DO THAT. 
          OH, I'D BE VIOLATING THE ORDINANCE IF I DO THAT. 
          THAT'S KIND OF A BUMMER. 
          MAYBE I'LL JUST LEAVE IT. 
          SO, I MEAN, IF IT WAS TOTALLY UP TO ME AND IN MY HANDS, I'D LEAVE IT AT SIX. 
          AM I GONNA LOSE SLEEP AT NIGHT HAVING IT AT 12? NOT REALLY. 
          AND I JUST WANT IT PASSED. 
           AND BEN, THERE IS A BIG, I MEAN THERE'S A, YES, FAIRFAX IS FOUR INCHES, BUT THERE'S ALSO OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT YEAH, WE HEARD 1224. 
          I MEAN ALL, WE HEARD PLENTY THAT WERE OVER 12. 
          GRANTED OLDER, OLDER ORDINANCES THAT AREN'T AS, UM, CAUGHT UP TO THE, THE SCIENCE, BUT, OR JUST LIKE SANTA ROSA'S, UH, SINGLE FAMILY PROPERTIES ARE, UH, THE SINGLE FAMILY ZONES ARE EXEMPT OTHER THAN HERITAGE TREES OR WINDSOR. 
          IT'S SINGLE FAMILY PROPERTIES LESS THAN ONE ACRE EXEMPT. 
          SO IT RUNS THE WHOLE GAMUT. 
          UM, SO, SO 12 WAS KIND OF SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE. 
          YEAH. 
          I APPRECIATE THAT. 
          UM, SO WHAT IS A, LIKE SAFELY, LIKE WHAT IS THE, THE, YOU KNOW, I IMAGINE A LARGE TREE NOT GETTING A PERMIT DOING IT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, DOING IT YOURSELF, RIGHT? AT SOME POINT IT BECOMES UNSAFE, RIGHT? WHICH IS LIKE AT ITS CORE, LIKE WHAT I, YOU KNOW, LIKE I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SETTING THE THRESHOLD AT A PLACE WHERE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, MANAGING SAFETY PEOPLE'S, YOU KNOW, PROPERTY VALUES, THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          WE'RE NOT CREATING AN UNSAFE SITUATION WITH PEOPLE DOING UN PERMITTED ACTIVITIES. 
          SO OUTSIDE OF LIKE POLITICAL VIABILITY HERE, LIKE WHAT IS, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT LIKE, WHEN IT BECOMES A SAFETY ISSUE? I MEAN, YEAH, IN THE SIX, THIS HELPS WITH POLITICAL VIABILITY BY THE WAY. 
          . 
          YEAH. 
          . 
          WELL, THE SIX TO EIGHT INCH RANGE IS, IS RIGHT IN THERE, RIGHT? LIKE IF, IF IT'S A SIX INCH TREE, SOMEONE CAN CUT THAT DOWN, PUT IT IN THEIR GREEN WASTE OVER THE COURSE OF A COUPLE OF WEEKS. 
          AND THAT'S LIKE A THING THAT I TALK TO HOMEOWNERS ABOUT. 
          AND I FEEL LIKE PRETTY COMFORTABLE TELLING PEOPLE IF THEY'RE LIKE CLEARING THEIR LOT, LIKE, YEAH, YOU COULD GET THIS OUTTA HERE YOURSELF. 
          YOU DON'T NEED TO HIRE SOMEBODY TO GET THIS DOWN. 
          AND I DON'T SAY THAT LIGHTLY BECAUSE PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES TRYING TO REMOVE THEIR OWN TREES ALL THE TIME. 
          . 
          BUT YEAH, ONCE IT GETS ABOVE SIX OR PROBABLY PROBABLY EIGHT MAX IS GONNA BE FOR MOST PEOPLE. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT, THAT'S GONNA HURT IF IT COMES DOWN ON SOMEBODY OR IF THEY TRY AND CLIMB IT TO, TO PIECE IT OUT. 
          OKAY. 
          YOU THINKING ABOUT A TREE THAT YOU REMOVED THAT WAS BIGGER THAN THAT ? THINKING ABOUT THE  IN THE BACKYARD? YEAH, EVERYBODY DOES. 
          I MEASURED, OH, I THINK I'M GOOD WITH SIX . 
          UM, LIKE I THINK I'M GOOD WITH SIX. 
          UM, NOTING THAT I THINK ENFORCEMENT'S GONNA BE REALLY TOUGH. 
          I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE WHAT, WE HAVE 10% COMPLIANCE ON FURNACE REPLACEMENTS 
          [03:45:01]
AND WATER HEATER REPLACEMENTS. 
          LIKE I DON'T, OH, PEOPLE CALL THE DR POLICE. 
          THAT'S THE THING. 
          I REALLY HATE TO WRITE AN ORDINANCE THAT WE EXPECT PEOPLE TO IGNORE BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE JUST GIVING SO MUCH MORE GRAY IF IT'S LIKE, WELL YOU NEVER EXPECTED ME TO, TO DO IT WITH THE, THE SIX AND A HALF. 
          SO LIKE, I'M GONNA IGNORE IT FOR THE 12 AND A HALF TOO. 
          LIKE I, I WANT IT TO HAVE TEETH TO HAVE REAL, OKAY, YOU GOT ME. 
          I'LL GO WITH 12, I'M GONNA STICK WITH 12. 
          I THINK PART OF THE TEETH THING TOO IS THAT WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT LIKE TREE APPRAISALS, BUT THAT'S THE FINE IF YOU REMOVE A TREE WITHOUT A PERMIT AND TREE APPRAISALS GET REALLY EXPENSIVE. 
          I MEAN WE DID A FINE IN MILL VALLEY THAT WAS FOR 50 GRAND FOR A REDWOOD BASED ON DIAMETER. 
          LIKE WHAT ARE, WHAT'S THE, IF YOU SEE A STUMP , IT'S THE GUIDE FOR PLANT APPRAISAL. 
          YEAH, IT'S, YEAH. 
          YOU SEE A STUMP AND THEN YOU HOPEFULLY CAN SEE THE TREE IN LIKE GOOGLE PHOTOS TO SEE WHAT CONDITION IT WAS IN BEFOREHAND. 
          USUALLY YOU CAN PIECE SOMETHING TOGETHER. 
          IF YOU CAN'T, THEN YOU JUST ASSUME THAT IT WAS IN GOOD CONDITION AND THEN, THEN IT GETS TO BE A REALLY HIGH APPRAISAL. 
          UM, SO A A 12 AND A HALF INCH DIAMETER, IT'S GONNA BE LESS. 
          YEAH. 
          I MEAN THAT MIGHT ONLY BE A COUPLE OF THOUSAND DOLLARS, BUT IT'S STILL, IT'S SOMETHING THAT STILL MORE THAN THE $500 MINIMUM. 
          YEAH. 
          SOMEONE'S NOT GONNA WANT TO GET STUCK WITH THAT. 
          AND PEOPLE FOLLOW THESE ORDINANCES. 
          I MEAN, AND AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO THE TREE COMPANIES, LIKE MOST OF THE GOOD TREE COMPANIES AREN'T GONNA WANT TO DO IT IF THEY KNOW THAT THEY NEED A PERMIT. 
          AND THIS IS GONNA KIND OF LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD, HOPEFULLY TO GET THOSE BETTER COMPANIES WORKING IN OUR COMMUNITY AND NOT SO MANY OF THE FLY BY NIGHT ONES. 
          'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS A LOT OF THE FLY BY NIGHT ONES BECAUSE IT'S SO MURKY IN PETALUMA THAT LIKE GOOD TREE COMPANIES STILL WANT TO GO GET THAT ENCROACHMENT PERMIT, WHICH REALLY BUMPS UP THE PRICE. 
          SO PEOPLE HIRE THOSE LIKE LOWER ONES. 
          BUT ONCE A FEW PEOPLE GET STUCK WITH THE FINES, I THINK IT'S REALLY GONNA CHANGE HOW PEOPLE BEHAVE HERE. 
          'CAUSE THEY ARE NOT IGNORED IN ANY COMMUNITY THAT I WORK IN. 
          EVERYBODY GETS PERMITS WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO, WHEN THERE'S ENFORCEMENT. 
          YEAH. 
          I I COULD MAYBE BE TALKED INTO 10, BUT I THINK SIX YOU'RE JUST, IT'S STILL LIKE, IT STILL FEELS LIKE LANDSCAPING AS OPPOSED TO URBAN FOREST. 
          AND THERE'S I THINK A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF LIKE YARDS. 
          I MEAN, I'M JUST THINKING OF MINE THAT JUST LIKE ISN'T PROPERLY PROPORTION THAT LIKE YOU COULD END UP, WHICH IS LIKE, OH, WE LIKE PUT IT IN THE WRONG PLACE AND AH, WE NEED TO, I DON'T KNOW. 
          I THINK YEAH, JUST THE REST OF THE COMMISSION AT YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          I WAS PERSUADED BY THE SAFETY POINT . 
          UM, YOU KNOW, AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MY APPLE TREE IN MY BACKYARD IS THE FORK IS ABOVE WHAT, WHATEVER, I HAVE TO ADD TWO TRUNKS TOGETHER TO TO, TO DO IT. 
          AND IT'S JUST UNDER SIX INCHES. 
          IT'S LIKE BY MAYBE AN INCH IT'S UNDER, SO IT'S LIKE FIVE INCHES. 
          SO IN A COUPLE, FEW, FEW YEARS IT'S GONNA BE ABOVE SIX INCHES. 
          AND THEN I'M LIKE, WHAT AM I GONNA KILL MYSELF TAKING THE THING OUT? I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOUR POINT ABOUT SAFETY REALLY KIND OF BROUGHT ME AROUND TO IT. 
          YEAH. 
          THERE'S NO CLEAR DEFINITION OF TREE THAT'S LIKE SCIENTIFICALLY ACCEPTED. 
          BUT THE BEST ONE THAT I'VE EVER HEARD IS IF IT FELL ON YOU AND IT COULD HURT YOU, IT'S A TREE. 
          WHERE'S THAT IN THE DEFINITIONS? COME ON . 
          SO YEAH, THAT'S, CAN GO WITH THAT. 
          YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU, YOU BROUGHT ME AROUND. 
          THAT GETS YOU TO SIX OR TO EIGHT OR TO 10. 
          I THINK IT GETS ME TO SIX. 
          INTERESTING. 
          UM, BUT I COULD, I'LL SAY, I THINK THERE'S PART OF THIS TOO, WHERE OPENING IT TO CITY COUNCIL IS GONNA GET A LOT MORE VISIBILITY AND A LOT MORE COMMENTARY FROM THE COMMUNITY. 
          SO I THINK IF WE PASS IT THROUGH WITH THE BEST RECOMMENDATIONS FROM OUR TREE COMMITTEE, I THINK AT THE SIX INCH LIMIT, I THINK WE WILL PROBABLY HEAR IT COUNCIL, IF THERE WAS COMMUNITY-WIDE REJECTION, IF THAT FELT TOO STRICT, THEY WOULD HEAR IT AND IT WOULD GIVE THEM THE FINAL DISCRETION TO THEN SAY, LOOK, HERE'S THE PRACTICAL LIMIT. 
          BUT, AND I THANK YOU FOR RAISING THE SAFETY ISSUE. 
          'CAUSE I JUST HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH A HOMEOWNER WHOSE NEIGHBOR BROUGHT DOWN A TREE AND ALMOST HIT THEIR HOUSE AND IT PROBABLY WASN'T MORE THAN THAN EIGHT INCHES. 
          SO THAT IS A REAL, THAT IS A REAL STEP OF THIS PROCESS IS LIKE, IT DOES ADD A PUBLIC SAFETY ELEMENT. 
          SO ANYWAY, THAT'S, THAT'S MY OTHER REASONING FOR KEEPING IT AT SIX IS KNOWING THAT COUNCIL WILL HAVE THE MAJORITY OF PUBLIC INPUT PROBABLY, AND WILL THEN HAVE THE FINAL 
          [03:50:01]
SAY ON IF, IF THAT'S THE RIGHT NUMBER OR NOT. 
          I MEAN, AGAIN, I I HATE TO PASS AN ORDINANCE THAT WE, OR, OR MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON AN ORDINANCE THAT WE THINK COUNCIL IS GONNA , BUT IN THE NAME OF PUBLIC SAFETY, GET THE POLICE CHIEF THERE TO, TO COMMENT ON IT. 
          UM, SO I'M, I'M HAPPY MOVING IT WITH SIX. 
          UM, I THINK I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE COUNCIL DISCUSSION ON IT. 
          UM, I'LL SAY I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK THAT'S GONE INTO IT, THE ADVOCACY, UM, THE WORK FROM OUR TREE COMMITTEE. 
          IT'S BEEN MANY YEARS IN THE MAKING. 
          I LOVE CHECKING OFF ONE OF OUR TOP 10 ISSUES. 
          I, UM, GENUINELY THINK THAT ONE OF OUR TOP 10 ISSUES NEEDS TO START BEING HOW DO WE CREATE LIKE AI TOOLS TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THESE THINGS BECAUSE IT'S INCREDIBLY COMPLEX FOR PEOPLE. 
          AND WE'RE, UM, PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO GO TO OUR WEBSITE AND FIGURE OUT, DO I NEED A PERMIT? WHAT'S IT GONNA BE? AND UM, SO I'LL BE TACKLING THAT AT OUR NEXT, UM, OUR NEXT TOP 10 GOALS BECAUSE NOW WE'VE GOT ONE DONE, HOPEFULLY. 
          SO, UM, GOT ROOM, GOT ROOM WANTS SOMEONE ELSE WANNA MAKE THE MOTION? SO WELL HOLD ON. 
          WE NEED TO GET CONSENSUS ON SIX. 
          SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE SAYING YOU CAN BRING IT BACK TO SIX FROM SIX SINGLE FAMILY. 
          I'M GOOD. 
          SIX. 
          YOU'RE GOOD TO GO BACK TO SIX. 
          CAN I SEE OTHER COMMISSIONERS WHERE YOU'RE AT ON SINGLE FAMILY INCHES? COMMISSIONER HILT, THOUGHTS TO SIX? THAT'S A THUMBS UP TO GO BACK TO SIX FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. 
          OKAY. 
          WELL IF WE'RE GOING TO SIX, WE JUST REMOVE THE, WE JUST REMOVE THE EXEMPTION. 
          YES. 
          WE JUST THANK YOU. 
          YES. 
          OKAY. 
          GOLDMAN? YEAH. 
          UM, I THINK I'M OKAY WITH IT. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          I THINK IT'S MORE OF LIKE A HEIGHT ISSUE, BUT UNMUTE. 
          I I THINK IT'S MORE OF A HEIGHT ISSUE IN THAT CASE, BUT I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT HOW THAT THE DIMENSION, UH, OR THE DIAMETER OF THE TREE TRANSFERS INTO HEIGHT BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THAT SAFETY, LIKE IF IT'S JUST A THICK STUMPY TREE, THEN THERE'S NO PROBLEM. 
          BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, 20 FEET TALL AND LIKE A POLE, SURE. 
          HEIGHT IS COMPLICATED BECAUSE YOU COULD TOP IT TODAY AND THEN TOMORROW IT'S BELOW YOUR CUTOFF. 
          SURE. 
          UM, I, I UNDERSTAND ALL THE REASONS BEHIND IT, BUT I, THE SAFETY THING, HAVING HAD A TREE FALL AT MY PREVIOUS HOUSE, UM, IS VERY MUCH AT THE FOREFRONT OF MY CONCERNS HERE. 
          WHAT'S THE BALANCE BETWEEN THE SAFETY OF WHEN IT'S SIX PLUS AND FOLKS ARE JUST GOING TO DO IT THEMSELVES AND PUT IT IN THE GREEN BIN WHEN IT'S SIX TO EIGHT? THAT, THAT, 'CAUSE THAT WAS WHAT WE SAID PREVIOUSLY AROUND LIKE, IF, IF WE'RE CREATING THIS, BECAUSE IF IT'S SMALL ENOUGH THAT SOMEONE IS FEELING SAFE TO JUST DO IT THEMSELVES MM. 
          THEY'LL DO IT WITHOUT A PERMIT. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT IF IT'S SO BIG THEY'RE NOT GONNA DO IT THEMSELVES, THEN IT'S KIND OF MORE ENFORCEABLE BECAUSE THE COMPANY'S GONNA WANT TO GET A PERMIT. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE, WE'VE GOT A CONSENSUS TO TAKE OUT THE EXEMPTION FOR SINGLE FAMILY LOTS AND THAT WOULD ALSO BE REMOVING, UM, THE DEFINITION 1702 OH E, WHICH WAS SPECIFICALLY PUT IN TO TRACK WITH THE EXEMPTION. 
          OKAY. 
          THE DEV, THE DEVELOPED PROPERTY FOR PURPOSES OF THE EXEMPTION. 
          SO OH, SO IT SOLVES C TOO? NO, IT REMOVES THE DEFINITION. 
          IT REMOVES THE DEFINITION. 
          REMOVE, OKAY. 
          SORRY. 
          WHEN WE REMOVE THE EXEMPTION, GOT, IT'LL BE TWO AMENDMENTS. 
          I SEE. 
          THE DOWNSTREAM EFFECTS OR THE UPSTREAM EFFECTS OF REMOVING THE EXEMPTION. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WE'VE GOT THREE RECOMMENDATIONS TO GO ALONG WITH OUR, I HAVE, UM, ADDING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DOCUMENTATION UNDER EXEMPTIONS 1704 OH. 
          UH, REMOVING THE ARBORIST REQUIREMENT FOR IMMINENT SITUATIONS IN OH FOUR OH C, ADDING A DEFINITION OF IMMINENT SITUATION TO 1702 OH. 
          UM, CONFIRMING CONSISTENCY WITH THE HERITAGE TREE REFERENCE IN THE MUNICIPAL CODE FOR 1707 OH B UH, REPLACING DEVELOPMENT PROJECT REPLACEMENT RATIOS. 
          UM, TB TO LOOK AT. 
          YEAH. 
          TO LOOK, TO LOOK AT THAT, TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE EXISTING ORDINANCE AND CONSIDER LIMITATIONS ON LARGE TREE REPLACEMENTS TO INCENTIVIZE SMALL TREES MM-HMM. 
          TO INCENTIVIZE 15 GALLONS AND THEN REMOVE THE SINGLE FAMILY EXEMPTION AND THE 
          [03:55:01]
RELATED DEFINITION OF DEVELOPED PROPERTY. 
          COOL. 
          ANYTHING WE MISSED? NOT TO KEEP US HERE. 
          DO WE HAVE, UM, ANY LONGER, IS IT POSSIBLE OR IS THIS, IS THIS NOT, UM, ON SECTION 17.090, WHEN IT SAYS ALL SITE PLANS HAVE TO SHOW THE ROOT AREA, THIS IS A BILL REINHARDT RECOMMENDATION TO MAKE SURE WE SPECIFICALLY REFERENCE GRADING AND UTILITY PLANS AS PART OF THAT. 
          IS THAT NECESSARY OR DOES SITE PLANS READ AS, YOU KNOW, ALL PLANS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT KINDA WORK? YEAH, THERE WERE THREE OF, UM, THE REINHARDT RECOMMENDATIONS THAT I DID WANNA BRING UP. 
          1706 OH C TWO, UH, THERE WAS A RECOMMENDATION, UM, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, REMOVAL OR ALTERATION AS NECESSARY TO PREVENT OBSTRUCTION, UM, TO ADD AT THE END OR END OF THAT. 
          AND ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS HAD BEEN DEEMED INFEASIBLE, WHICH MATCHES LANGUAGE ELSEWHERE. 
          UM, THERE'S A REFERENCE ABOUT, UM, UH, BEAR WITH ME. 
          UM, E AND F, UH, 1709, OH E AND F COMBINING THOSE, UM, ABOUT PROJECT ARBORIST REQUIREMENTS TO ALSO SPECIFY THAT THEY SHOULD BE PREPARING THE TREE AND TREE PRESERVATION AND PROTECTION PLAN WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT. 
          AND THEN, UM, 17.100 G SEVEN, UM, WHICH WAS TO ADD PLANS INSTEAD OF LANDSCAPE PLANS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT TO INCORPORATE THE TREE PROTECTION PLAN PLAN. 
          UM, AND THEN FINALLY, H TWO H THREE, WHICH WAS THE TREE PROTECTION ZONE, SHALL BE ILLUSTRATED ON ALL SITE PLANS, INCLUDING GRADING AND UTILITY PLANS. 
          THE LOOKING AT THOSE BEING GOOD ADDITIONS, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT IN DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, THAT, THAT, THAT TREE PROTECTION IS KIND OF BEING SHOWN ON ALL THE THINGS WE NEED IT TO BE SHOWN ON, NOT JUST ON ONE, ONE PLAN THAT MIGHT NOT GO ALONG WITH SOME OF THE OTHER PLANS. 
          I SUPPORT THAT. 
          I'LL SAY BILL HAS HAD HIS PULSE. 
          I MEAN, HE'S CREATED MUCH OF THE TREE, UM, LEGISLATION OR POLICY THAT WE HAVE TODAY. 
          SO I, I AGREE WITH THOSE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO CAN WE HAVE A MOTION INCORPORATING THE NOTES AS DISCUSSED  WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THEM AGAIN? I, I WILL MAKE THE MOTION, UM, TO ADOPT THE, UH, OH MY GOSH. 
          I, I DON'T HAVE SPECIAL LANGUAGE, BUT I, I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE FORWARD THE, UH, TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE A RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPT AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO COMPREHENSIVELY MODIFY CHAPTER 17 OF THE IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE, INCLUDING OUR CHANGES IN NOTES. 
          DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WE'VE GOT A MOTION FROM BREON AND A SECOND FROM BARNACLE. 
          COULD WE HAVE A ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE. 
          COMMISSIONER EBNER. 
          ABSENT. 
          COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER NEWELL. 
          AYE. 
          COMMISSIONER KUSON? YES. 
          COMMISSIONER HILT. 
          UM, AT HOME ALONE AND YES. 
          . 
          THANK YOU. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE. 
          AYE. 
          CHAIR MOSES? YES, IT IS APPROVED. 
          THANKS VERY MUCH. 
          AND WITH THAT WE WILL, WE'LL CLOSE MEETING ITEM THREE AND CONTINUE TO COMMISSION 
          [COMMITTEE COMMENT]
COMMENT. 
          I'LL START WITH YOU COMMISSIONER HILT ON COMMISSION COMMENT IF YOU PLEASE. 
          I WAS ABSENT AT THE LAST TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, SO I HAVE NO COMMENT. 
          OKIE DOKE. 
          UH, COUNCIL MEMBER BARNAL. 
          ONE SECOND. 
          OKAY, WE'LL START OVER HERE THEN. 
          DARREN. 
          YEAH. 
          QUICK UPDATE TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING. 
          WE ROLLED OUT THE URBAN FOREST MANAGEMENT PLAN, UM, MORE TALK ABOUT THAT, WHICH IS GONNA BE THE REST OF THE SUPPORTING TREE POLICY THAT THIS KIND OF TPO IS PART OF. 
          SO JUST YOU THOUGHT THERE WAS TOO MANY TREES? IT'S GONNA BE A LOT MORE COMING. 
          I HAVE A FEELING. 
          GET THOSE 15 GALLONS IN. 
          NO, UM, NO COMMENT FROM ME. 
          I HAVE TWO COMMENTS. 
          UM, ONE TO UH, ADDRESS A A POINT THAT HAPPENED AT OUR LAST MEETING, UM, 
          [04:00:01]
I, UH, VOICED INTEREST IN ATTENDING THE HOUSING LAW SYMPOSIUM AND I DID NOT, UH, UH, SO I WANTED TO LET THE, THE COMMISSION KNOW, UM, I HAD A INJURY TO MY SHOULDER. 
          UM, AND ANOTHER POINT IS THAT I ATTENDED THE, UH, GENERATION HOUSING CONFERENCE, UH, IN SANTA ROSA, UH, TO LEARN MORE ABOUT, UH, THE HOUSING ISSUES IN OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR COUNTY, UH, AND WHAT SOME HOUSING ADVOCATES WERE, WERE URGING. 
          SO IT WAS A EDUCATIONAL, UH, EFFORT BY ME. 
          ANY LEARNINGS TO SHARE? UH, WE NEED MORE HOUSING. 
          THANK YOU . 
          OKAY. 
          COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN. 
          UM, SIMILARLY, UNFORTUNATELY I WAS NOT ABLE TO ATTEND THE, UM, SYMPOSIUM EITHER. 
          UM, AND I WAS ALSO UNABLE TO ATTEND THE LAST PAC MEETING, SO I DON'T HAVE ANY REPORT OUT FROM THAT COUNCIL MEMBER. 
          UM, YEAH, SO THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING, UM, WE, UH, BASICALLY, UM, WE SUS OR REMOVED THE GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT, UH, TO THE OVERLAY SO IT WILL NOT BE GOING TO THE BALLOT. 
          UM, SO FINGERS CROSSED THAT THE THING GETS BUILT. 
          UM, AND I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR AN UPDATE ON WHEN, LIKE, WHAT WE ENVISION BEING THE NEXT STEP IN THE ZONING CODE UPDATE OR THE FIRST STEP IN THE ZONING CODE UPDATE FROM STAFF WHEN WE HEAR FROM THAT. 
          ALRIGHT, WITH THAT, WE'LL GO TO STAFF 
          [STAFF COMMENT]
COMMENT. 
          GREAT, THANK YOU. 
          I THINK I WANT TO RESPOND TO, UM, COUNCIL MEMBER'S LAST QUESTION ABOUT THE ZONING CODE UPDATE. 
          UH, WE HAVE BEEN ASKED TO PROVIDE A PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE, UM, AS WELL AS BUDGET AND STAFFING TO MOVE IT FORWARD. 
          UH, AND SO WE'LL BE PROVIDING THAT TO DIRECTOR O UH, NEXT WEEK AND THEN HAVE MORE INFORMATION FOR YOU AFTER THAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SURE. 
          UM, ALSO, UH, RELATED TO THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY, THE, UH, P PERIOD FOR THE EKN HOTEL PROJECT THAT WAS APPROVED BY HCPC, UH, 14 DAYS AGO, CLOSED AT THE END OF BUSINESS TODAY, AND THE CITY DID NOT SEE, RECEIVE A REPEAL, AN APPEAL OF THAT DECISION. 
          SO, UH, THAT, UH, ALLOWS THAT PROJECT TO MOVE FORWARD. 
          UM, ALSO THE, UH, GALLAGHER SENIOR LIVING PROJECT, UH, AS AFTER IT COMPLETED THE, UH, ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT FOR THE RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITIES REGULATIONS, UH, THE NEXT DAY THEY CLOSED ON THAT PROPERTY. 
          AND, UH, SO THEY'RE MOVING FORWARD WITH DEMOLITION AND, UM, AND MOVING VERY AGGRESSIVELY ON THAT. 
          SO RIGHT , THE, THE DAY THAT, YEAH, THE, BY THE AFTERNOON THAT THEY CLOSED OF THE DAY THEY CLOSED ON THE PROPERTY. 
          THEY HAD, UH, THEY HAD THE, UM, THE, YOU KNOW, THE VARIOUS EQUIPMENT IN THERE TO BEGIN DEMOLITION. 
          SO, UM, THEY ALSO WILL BE, THEY ALSO, THIS WAS INTERESTING AND SOMETHING TO, I GUESS TO SHOW HOW HIGHLY REGULATED THESE FACILITIES ARE. 
          THEY ARE REQUIRED TO ENTER INTO PRELIMINARY CONTRACTS FOR A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE UNITS BEFORE THEY CAN BEGIN CONSTRUCTION. 
          SO THEY DO HAVE A TEMPORARY SALES FACILITY THAT THEY'LL BE ESTABLISHING THAT WILL ALLOW THEM TO, UH, DO THE PRE-SALES FOR THE UNITS, UM, SO THAT THEY CAN THEN BE AUTHORIZED BY THE STATE TO BEGIN CONSTRUCTION. 
          UM, SO THAT, THAT'S UPDATES ON PROJECTS. 
          THEN, UH, THE, THE, UM, PETALUMA NORTH STATION SPECIFIC PLAN WORKING GROUP MET ON THE FOURTH. 
          THAT WAS THEIR FIRST MEETING. 
          I THINK IT WAS A, A REALLY GOOD MEETING. 
          UM, SOME GREAT COMMENTS AND LOOKING FORWARD TO, UH, THAT GROUP CONTINUING TO EVOLVE AND GROW. 
          UM, THERE WILL BE A, UH, COMMUNITY MEETING ON MARCH 21ST, UM, FOR THAT PROJECT, UM, TO EXPLORE EXISTING CONDITIONS, THE RESULTS OF THESE EXISTING CONDITIONS ANALYSIS, AS WELL AS LOOKING AT SOME VISIONING AND PREFERRED ALTERNATIVES, UH, GATHERING INPUT ON THOSE. 
          SO IT, IT AGAIN IS REALLY GREAT THAT, THAT WE'RE SEEING REALLY GREAT, UH, INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY, UH, HIGH LEVELS OF INTEREST FROM THE COMMUNITY AND THAT'S REALLY HELPING THAT, UH, PROJECT STAY ON TIMELINE. 
          UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO CONTINUING TO EVOLVE THAT PROJECT. 
          THERE WILL NOT BE A, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ON THE 24TH. 
          UM, WE ARE STILL WITHIN THE WINDOW TO AGENDIZE UH, MEETING ITEMS FOR APRIL 14TH, ALTHOUGH WE DON'T HAVE ANY CURRENTLY ON THE AGENDA. 
          WE DO HAVE, UM, 
          [04:05:01]
AN AGENDA ITEM ON APRIL 28TH. 
          AND SO WE WILL BE DOING A QUORUM CHECK FOR APRIL 28TH. 
          AND HEATHER, IF YOU WANNA TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THAT SINCE YOU'RE HERE. 
          UH, SO, UH, WE WILL BE RELEASING THE DRAFT GENERAL PLAN AND THE DRAFT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT, UM, HOPEFULLY LATER THIS MONTH. 
          UM, AND SO DURING THAT WILL COME TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION DURING THE MANDATED 45 DAY REVIEW OF THE DRAFT EIR, UH, FOR RE REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE, UM, TARGETING THE APRIL 28TH MEETING FOR THAT TO COME TO PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          WE WILL LET THE PLANNING COMMISSION KNOW, ONCE THOSE DOCUMENTS ARE PUBLIC, UM, SEND, HAVE ANDREW SEND A, AN EMAIL WITH, WITH THE LINK SO THAT, UM, WE WON'T PILE THAT ON ONE WEEK PRIOR. 
          UM, SO WE'LL LET YOU KNOW AS SOON AS THOSE ARE RELEASED. 
          SO YOU CAN START, UM, PERUSING. 
          GREAT. 
          THANKS HEATHER. 
          AND THEN, AND THEN JUST TO SHOW YOU HOW, HOW LINKED THE PETALUMA NORTH STATION PLAN IS WITH THE GENERAL PLAN, HOW CLOSELY THEY'RE TRACKING, UM, ON MAY 12TH, WE'VE TENTATIVELY AGENDIZED BRINGING FORWARD THE NORTH STATION SPECIFIC PLAN ALTERNATIVES FOR YOUR REVIEW TO, UH, RECOMMEND A PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          SO A LOT OF GOOD PLANNING WORK, UM, HAPPENING AND, UH, MOVING VERY QUICKLY. 
          SO GREAT YEAR, EXCITING STUFF. 
          WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE, UM, CCBS? ARE WE STILL RECRUITING OR THAT CLOSED? OH, THEY DID, THEY DID MIDYEAR APPOINTMENTS. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, RIGHT. 
          AND WE'RE PAST THAT. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          YEAH. 
          IS THERE GONNA BE A SPRING OPENING? THERE WILL BE FOR RIGHT. 
          FOR SOME OF THOSE APPOINTMENTS? WOULD BE THROUGH, WOULD BE SOME, THERE WILL BE SOME APPOINTMENTS THAT EXPIRE ON JUNE 30TH AND THOSE WILL BE OKAY. 
          WILL BE FILLED. 
          RIGHT. 
          COOL. 
          MM-HMM . 
          UM, OKAY. 
          ANY, UH, QUESTIONS FOR SETH OR FINAL THOUGHTS? LOOKING UP AND DOWN? NOTHING ONLINE. 
          OKAY. 
          THEN LET'S ADJOURN HERE AT 10 19. 
          THANKS EVERYBODY. 
          .
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.