* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] ALL RIGHT, FOLKS, THANKS FOR THIS RECORDING IN PROGRESS. HELLO, AND THANK YOU FOR, UH, ENTERTAINING OUR SLIGHT DELAY HERE WHILE WE WORKED OUT SOME TECHNICAL STUFF. UM, BUT I'LL CALL TO ORDER [CALL TO ORDER] HERE, OUR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ON TUESDAY, AUGUST 25TH, 2026, HERE AT 6:02 PM AND ASK THE CLERK TO PLEASE. UH, OH. NO, FIRST WE'RE DOING THE OATH OF OFFICE FOR OUR NEW COMMISSIONER, SO WE'RE NOT DOING ROLE YET UNTIL WE GET THEM IN. SO LET'S PROCEED WITH THAT ITEM. PLEASE GO AHEAD AND STAND HERE. MM-HMM . RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. MM-HMM . I'M GONNA REPEAT AFTER ME. HI, CHRISTOPHER AUER. I CHRISTOPHER. NO GEBAUER. DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR. DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF PETALUMA, THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF PETALUMA, THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE, THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF PETALUMA, THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF PETALUMA, AND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, AND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. THAT I TAKE THIS OBLIGATION FREELY, THAT I TAKE THIS OBLIGATION FREELY WITHOUT ANY MENTAL RESERVATION, WITHOUT ANY MENTAL RESERVATION OR PURPOSE OF EVASION OR PURPOSE OF EVASION, AND THAT I WILL WELL AND FAITHFULLY, AND THAT I WILL WELL AND FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THE DUTIES. DISCHARGE THE DUTIES UPON WHICH I'M ABOUT TO ENTER UPON WHICH I'M ABOUT TO ENTER. CONGRATULATIONS. THANK YOU. IF YOU CAN SIGN RIGHT THERE, AND THEN YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND TAKE YOUR SEAT. WELCOME ABOARD. COMMISSIONER AUER. EXCITED TO HAVE YOU JOINING US HERE. YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO SAY YOUR NAME INTO THE MICROPHONE A FEW TIMES SO WE CAN ALL LOCK IT IN. I'LL DO MY BEST. OKAY. OKAY. GIVE US, GIVE US NEW IT'S NO GAU. NO GEBAUER. YES. NO GEBAUER. NO GEBAUER. MM-HMM . WE'LL DO OUR BEST. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER. NO GEBAUER. WITH THAT, WE WILL TAKE ROLL. COMMISSIONER EBNER PRESENT. COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN. HERE. COMMISSIONER AUER. HERE. COMMISSIONER NEWELL. HERE. COMMISSIONER HIL. ABSENT. COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE PRESENT CHAIR MEUS PRESENT. WE HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT, WE WILL HEAD INTO GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT. DURING GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO MAKE COMMENTS ON ITEMS OF PUBLIC INTEREST THAT ARE WITHIN THE PLANNING COMMISSION SUBJECT MATTER JURISDICTION, AND THAT ARE NOT LISTED ON THE CURRENT AGENDA. PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO UP TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON, AND DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF PERSONS WISHING TO ADDRESS THE PLANNING COMMISSION TIME WILL BE ALLOCATED IN EQUAL SHARES TOTALING NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES. SO WITH THAT, WE'LL OPEN GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT AND ASK SPEAKERS TO BRING CARDS UP TO THE CLERK'S DESK. NOT SEEING ANYONE RUSH OVER. I WILL ASK, UH, DID WE RECEIVE ANY PUBLIC, OR EXCUSE ME, GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING WE RECEIVED? NO GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING. OKAY. THEN WE WILL CLOSE GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT AND MOVE ON OVER TO PRESENTATIONS, AND WE HAVE NONE. SO WE WILL CLOSE THAT ITEM AND CONTINUE ON [APPROVAL OF MINUTES] TO THE APPROVAL OF MINUTES. OUR MEETING ITEM TWO HERE IS AN APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR THE MEETING ON JUNE 23RD, AND I'LL INVITE COMMISSIONERS TO PROVIDE ANY AMENDMENTS TO THOSE MINUTES FROM JUNE 23RD, 2026. ANY AMENDMENTS TO THE MINUTES? OKAY, THEN WE WILL CONSIDER THOSE APPROVED. UM, WITH THAT, I'M GONNA ANNOUNCE THAT WE WILL MOVE MEETING ITEM THREE DOWN, UM, AND JUMP [4. Study Session – Recommendation to the City of Petaluma Planning Commission to receive a Staff Presentation and conduct a Study Session on Phase 1 of the Petaluma Zoning Reform project, and to provide non-binding comments and direction on draft amendments to the Implementing Zoning Ordinance and the SmartCode, the first of three phases, which would begin to carry the objective standards and technical mapping of the forthcoming General Plan into regulation, implement zoning-related programs of the certified 6th Cycle Housing Element and the Blueprint for Climate Action, conform the City's zoning regulations to State law, and address the highest-priority regulatory needs in housing and economic development. MATERIALS FOR THE MEETING ITEM WERE PUBLISHED ON FRIDAY,  AUGUST 21, 2026] INTO MEETING ITEM FOUR, WHICH IS OUR STUDY SESSION. AND I'LL READ HERE. THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY OF PETALUMA PLANNING COMMISSION TO RECEIVE A STAFF PRESENTATION AND CONDUCT A STUDY SESSION ON PHASE ONE OF THE PETALUMA ZONING REFORM PROJECT, AND TO PROVIDE NON-BINDING COMMENTS AND DIRECTION ON DRAFT AMENDMENTS TO THE IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE AND THE SMART CODE, THE FIRST OF THREE PHASES, WHICH WOULD BEGIN TO CARRY THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS AND TECHNICAL MAPPING OF THE FORTHCOMING GENERAL PLAN INTO REGULATION, IMPLEMENT ZONING RELATED PROGRAMS OF THE CERTIFIED OF THE CERTIFIED SIXTH CYCLE HOUSING ELEMENT, AND THE BLUEPRINT FOR CLIMATE ACTION CONFORM THE CITY'S ZONING REGULATIONS TO STATE LAW AND ADDRESS THE HIGHEST PRIORITY REGULATORY NEEDS IN HOUSING AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS NOT A PUBLIC HEARING AND THEREFORE DOES NOT REQUIRE DISCLOSING ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS. AND WITH THAT, WE'LL TURN IT OVER TO STAFF [00:05:01] TO PRESENT, PLEASE. GREAT. THANK YOU, CHAIR. GOOD EVENING. MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. UM, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND SHARE SCREEN ALSO. DO YOU HAVE, DO YOU HAVE YOUR INDIVIDUAL MONITORS NOW? OKAY, GREAT. WELL, THEN IT'S A GOOD THING THAT I PRINTED OFF COPIES OF THE PRESENTATION FOR YOU. SO, UH, YOU'VE GOT TWO SETS OF DOCUMENTS IN FRONT OF YOU. ONE IS, UM, COPY OF THE, UH, PRESENTATION SLIDES THAT ARE IN A NOTE TAKING FORMAT. AND THEN THE SECOND SET IS A QUESTION, UH, KIND OF QUESTIONS THAT WE'LL BE ASKING THE COMMISSION TO RESPOND TO, AS WELL AS SOME CHOICES TO MAKE AND SOME ITEMS TO INPUT ON. UH, AND THERE'S FOUR PAGES OF THOSE THAT WE CAN PICK UP. THEN, UM, AS WE GET INTO DISCUSSION WITH THAT, I'LL GO AHEAD THEN AND SHARE MY SCREEN. OKAY. SO THIS IS A STUDY SESSION FOR THE PETALUMA ZONING REFORM PROJECT. SPECIFICALLY, IT'S ABOUT THE PHASE ONE DRAFT AMENDMENTS, UH, THAT WOULD IMPLEMENT THE, UM, ZONING ORDINANCE AS WELL AS THE SMART CODE. SO THIS EVENING IS NOT ASKING THE COMMISSION FOR A RECOMMENDATION, WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHEN, UH, WHEN WE WILL COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR A RECOMMENDATION. UM, BUT YOU CAN COUNT ON THIS FROM STAFF. WE'LL DESCRIBE WHAT'S BEEN DRAFTED THAT WAS ALSO PROVIDED AS ATTACHMENTS TO YOUR, UM, MEETING ITEM. UH, WE'LL BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT REMAINS UNSETTLED, AND WE'LL BE LOOKING FOR SOME DIRECTION ON QUESTIONS THAT CALL FOR POLICY DECISIONS TO BE MADE. SO, UH, THIS EVENING WE CAN THINK ABOUT QUESTIONS FROM FOUR PERSPECTIVES. THE FIRST IS, UH, THE POLICY QUESTIONS THAT REVIEW AUTHORITIES, UH, BEING THE COMMISSION AND, UM, THE CITY COUNCIL FOR THIS PHASE ONE, UM, GROUP OF AMENDMENTS. THEN THE LEGAL QUESTIONS, WHICH THE, UH, CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE TO RESPOND TO. FINALLY, SCOPING AND SEQUENCING QUESTIONS THAT DIRECTOR O UH, HAS BEEN PROVIDING INPUT AND DIRECTION ON. AND THEN DRAFTING QUESTIONS THAT THE PROJECT TEAM, UM, HAS BEEN, UH, WORKING THROUGH AND ARE PRESENTED IN THE, UH, RED LINE AND CLEAN DOCUMENTS THAT WERE PROVIDED AS ATTACHMENTS. SO I'M HERE THIS EVENING, BUT THERE IS AN ENTIRE TEAM OF FOLKS, UM, WHO SIT BEHIND ME WHO, WHO WORK, UM, DURING THE DAYS AND, UH, WHO CONTRIBUTE TO, UH, WHAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING. SO WHEN WE THINK ABOUT, UH, WHAT WE'RE DOING IN PHASE ONE, WE, WE SORT OF WONDER WHY ARE WE DOING IT NOW? RIGHT? AND THERE'S THREE PRIMARY DRIVERS OF THE ZONING REFORM THAT WE LOOK TO. UH, THE FIRST TWO, UM, ARE THE ADOPTED POLICIES THAT ARE ASKING THE ORDINANCE TO DO THINGS THAT IT WAS NOT BUILT TO DO. THAT'S THE IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE THAT'S BEEN IN EFFECT SINCE 2008. UH, THOSE, THOSE ADOPTED POLICIES TAKE SHAPE IN THE, THE FORTHCOMING GENERAL PLAN, THE CERTIFIED SIX CYCLE HOUSING ELEMENT, THE ADOPTED BLUEPRINT FOR CLIMATE ACTION, AND THEY ALL CALL FOR REVISIONS TO THE ZONING CODE BY 2027. ADDITIONALLY, UH, THE STATE'S GOVERNMENT CODE SECTION 6 5 8 6 0 REQUIRES THAT A, UH, JURISDICTION ZONING ORDINANCE CONFORM TO ITS GENERAL PLAN. SO WE'RE ALSO MOTIVATED BY STATE LAW IN THAT REGARD. ADDITIONALLY, AS WE WELL KNOW, THERE'S BEEN SUBSTANTIAL STATE LAW CHANGES SINCE 2008, PRIMARILY IN THE AREAS OF HOUSING TO SUPPORT HOUSING PRODUCTION BY, UH, THROUGH STREAMLINING ME MEASURES THAT REDUCE, UH, TIME AND RISK, UM, ASSOCIATED WITH HOUSING REVIEW. AND, UH, SO THEY TELL US OFTENTIMES WHAT WE HAVE TO DO, AND IN SOME CASES WE'RE CODIFYING THOSE REQUIREMENTS. IN OTHER CASES, WE'RE REFERRING TO THEM IN THE ZONING CODE. AND THEN FINALLY WE HAVE EXPIRED AND OUTDATED REGULATIONS. UH, THE 2008 IMPLEMENTING ORDINANCE WAS REALLY PHASE ONE OF THIS PROJECT IN THAT IT WAS SORT OF A STOP GAP TO RESPOND TO THE GOVERNMENT CODE REQUIREMENT AND TO IMPLEMENT THE GENERAL PLAN THAT WAS ADOPTED IN 2008. BUT THE FUTURE PHASE IS WHAT WERE THEN REFERRED TO AS THE DEVELOPMENT CODE WORK. UH, WERE NEVER BROUGHT FORWARD, UM, EITHER IN DRAFT, THEY WERE NEVER WORKED ON OR BROUGHT FORWARD FOR ADOPTION. SO WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO FIX THAT SITUATION WHERE, UH, THE PLANNING DIVISION HAS BEEN ACTIVELY INTERPRETING THE CODE AND WORKING THROUGH, UH, ITS LIMITATIONS SINCE IT WAS ADOPTED IN 2008. SO WE DO HAVE SOME EXAMPLES HERE. ONE EXAMPLE IS, YOU KNOW, A FENCE OWNER WHO HAS AN EXISTING PRIVACY FENCE THAT'S LEGALLY CONSTRUCTED. UM, SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO REBUILD THAT SAME FENCE IN THE SAME PLACE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO GET ANOTHER FENCE PERMIT IN ORDER TO DO SO. AND THEN SECOND, UH, WE DO REQUIRE HOME PERMIT, HOME OCCUPATION PERMITS FOR ALL HOME-BASED BUSINESSES. AND, UM, I THINK IF YOU SAW THE FLOW OF [00:10:01] HOME OCCUPATION PERMITS, YOU'D BE SURPRISED AT THE NUMBER OF, OF HOME-BASED BUSINESSES THROUGHOUT THE CITY. BUT IT, BUT IT'S THESE LITTLE DETAILS WHERE THE, THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY REALLY COME FACE TO FACE WITH THE CODE ON A REGULAR DAILY BASIS. AND SO THOSE ARE EXAMPLES OF SOME OF THE EXPIRED, OUTDATED REGULATIONS WE WON'T NECESSARILY GET TO IN PHASE ONE, BUT THAT WE DO LOOK FORWARD TO, UH, COMPLETING, ESPECIALLY IN PHASE TWO. THE BEST WAY TO THINK ABOUT PHASE ONE, I THINK, IS IF WE LOOK TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN OR THE SLIDE WHERE IT SAYS, PHASE ONE IS BUILT AROUND THE OBLIGATIONS TO REFORM, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE RESPONDING TO. THOSE SPECIFIC OBLIGATIONS THAT ARE ENSCONCED IN THE ADOPTED POLICIES, OR IN THE CASE OF THE GENERAL PLAN THAT'S COMING FORWARD FOR ADOPTION THAT WE'RE OBLIGATED TO RESPOND TO AND TO CONFORM WITH. THEN THERE'S OTHERS THAT, UM, THERE MAY BE POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE CAN ACT TO IMPLEMENT, BUT WE'RE NOT OBLIGATED IMMEDIATELY TO BE TO, UH, TO IMPLEMENT THOSE. SO THAT HELPS TO GIVE YOU A BIT OF SENSE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING IN PHASE ONE AND WHY WE'RE DOING IT. SO THEN THE, UH, BRIEF SCHEDULE FOR THE UPCOMING, FOR THIS FALL, ACTUALLY ONLY FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS, UH, THE GENERAL PLAN COMES FORWARD TO THE COUNCIL ON SEPTEMBER 14TH. COUNCIL WOULD CONSIDER IT FOR ADOPTION BECAUSE IT IS A POLICY DOCUMENT. THE GENERAL PLAN ONLY REQUIRES ONE READING. HOWEVER, IT'S HAD, UH, EXTENSIVE REVIEW BY THE COMMISSION AND BY THE COUNCIL OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, PARTICULARLY INTENSIVE, UM, OVER THE LAST YEAR AS, UH, A LOT OF THE REFINEMENTS HAVE TAKEN PLACE. THEN IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THAT AND PROVIDED THAT ALL GOES WELL THIS EVENING, UM, WE'LL COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION ON SEPTEMBER 15TH, THAT WOULD BE A SPECIAL MEETING OF THE COMMISSION. AND, UH, THE CLERK HAS A REQUESTED A QUORUM FROM YOU FOR THAT MEETING ON THE 15TH. AT THAT MEETING, WE WOULD PRESENT AGAIN THE PHASE ONE REFORM PACKAGE, UH, AND IT WOULD BE BEFORE YOU TO RECOMMEND TO THE COUNCIL, UH, TO ADOPT THE PHASE ONE AMENDMENTS. AGAIN, IF ALL GOES WELL AT THAT MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 15TH, THEN THE PHASE ONE PACKAGE WOULD COME BACK TO COUNCIL FOR ITS FIRST READING ON OCTOBER 15TH, AND THEN A SECOND READING, UM, ANTICIPATED FOR OCTOBER 19TH. AND SO THE GOAL THEN THE, UH, IS TO, UM, TO TIE TO THE GENERAL PLAN. AND, UH, THAT'S BECAUSE THE, UH, PHASE ONE ZONING REFORM, UM, IS THE OPERATIVE DOCUMENT THAT IMPLEMENTS THE GENERAL PLAN. UH, WE CAN ASK, UH, I'D LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND ASK ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY DILL BRADY TO TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THE IMPACT OF GOVERNMENT CODE SECTION 6 5 8 6 0, AND, UH, AND WHAT IT DOES ALLOW US TO DO WITH REGARD TO THE CONSISTENCY FINDING. SURE. THANKS, ANDREW. SO THE, THAT GOVERNMENT CODE 6 5 8 6 0 RECOGNIZES THAT CITIES WILL BE ADOPTING GENERAL PLANS. THAT'S THE STATE LAW REQUIREMENT. AND WHEN YOU ADOPT NEW GENERAL PLANS, THERE MAY BE INCONSISTENCIES WITH YOUR ZONING CODE CURRENTLY, AND WE ALL KNOW THAT THE CHARTER IS THE, OR NOT THE CHARTER, SORRY, THEIR GENERAL PLAN IS THE HIGHEST LAND USE DOCUMENT FOR THE CITY. SO IF THERE ARE INCONSISTENCIES BETWEEN THE CHARTER AND THE GENERAL PLAN OR THE GENERAL PLAN AND THE ZONING CODE, THE GENERAL PLAN WILL PREVAIL. UH, WHAT THIS DOES MEAN IN THE STATE LAW DOES PROVIDE US A, SOME BAKED IN REASONABLE TIME TO CORRECT THOSE INCONSISTENCIES UPON AN APPLICATION. IT ACTUALLY TREATS THE APPLICATIONS DIFFERENTLY, DEPENDING IF IT'S A HOUSING ACCOUNTABILITY ACT, UH, APPLICATION OR A NON HAA APPLICATION FOR NON HAA APPLICATIONS. WE HAVE 180 DAYS TO, UH, CORRECT THAT, UH, INCONSISTENCY. AND IT'S NOT REALLY A BIG DEAL BECAUSE THE, FOR MOST PART, NON HAA APPLICATIONS WILL VEST WHEN THEY PULL A PERMIT, THEY GET THEIR ENTITLEMENTS AND THEY ACTUALLY START TO WORK. SO BY THE TIME THE WE ARE RECOGNIZING INCONSISTENCIES WITH AN APPLICATION, WE, IT WILL, THE PROJECT WON'T BE ENTITLED, IT WON'T VEST IN TIME. AND WHEN IT DOES VEST, THOSE INCONSISTENCIES WILL BE CORRECTED, UH, FOR HAA PROJECTS. AND I DON'T HAVE THE, UH, STATUTE IN FRONT OF ME, BUT IT DOES ALLOW IF THERE HAA PROJECTS NEED TO COMPLY WITH THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS IN THE GENERAL PLAN IF THERE'S ANY INCONSISTENCIES. SO OUR GENERAL PLAN HAS OBJECTIVE STANDARDS LIKE HIGH FAR, SO IF THERE'S ANY INCONSISTENCIES BETWEEN THOSE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS AND THE ZONING CODE, THOSE, UH, STANDARDS IN THE GENERAL PLAN WILL, UH, TAKE PRECEDENCE. SO IF WE GET AN APPLICATION IN THE MISSED OR IN BETWEEN THE GENERAL PLAN TAKING EFFECT AND THESE PHASE ONE ZONING CODE AMENDMENTS, SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT, SEPTEMBER 15TH UNTIL LIKE NOVEMBER 15TH OR SO, MAYBE LATER, [00:15:01] UH, REALLY FOR HAA APPLICATIONS, WE'LL BE OKAY BECAUSE WE'LL HAVE THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS IN OUR GENERAL PLAN. SO LET ME KNOW IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS. GREAT. THANK YOU, DYLAN. NO PROBLEM. SO THEN WE'LL GO ON TO THEN, UH, THIS EVENING'S PACKAGE AND WHAT'S BEFORE YOU AND WHAT WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL SLIDES. UH, WE WILL BE CONSIDERING NINE CHAPTERS THAT ARE COMING FORWARD. UH, WE DO HAVE ONE SECTION OF SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARDS FOR THE DOWNTOWN MIXED USE ZONING DISTRICT THAT WE'LL BE ESTABLISHING AS WELL AS, UM, UM, STANDARDS FOR THE SMART CODE WHERE WE DO NEED TO IMPLEMENT GENERAL PLAN LAND USE DESIGNATIONS IN THE SMART CODE. SO, UH, CHAPTER ONE, KICKING IT OFF, THEN, UH, THIS CHAPTER IS THE, THE ZONING ORDINANCES PURPOSE AND APPLICABILITY CHAPTER. UM, THE, UH, WE REALLY JUST CLEANED IT UP. WE ADDED SOME THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN MISSING A SEVERABILITY CLAUSE, FOR INSTANCE, A PROCEDURE FOR OFFICIAL INTERPRETATIONS AND, UH, RECORDED THE AUTHORITY, UM, THAT A CH A CHARTER CITY HAS TO ESTABLISH ZONING UNDER, UM, THE INTERPRETATIONS ARE ISSUED IN WRITING AND APPEALABLE TO THE COMMISSION. UM, AND THAT IS A QUESTION THAT WE HAVE FOR YOU. AND THEN, UM, WHAT WE NEED HERE IS JUST YOUR COMMENTS, IF YOU HAVE ANY ON THE REVIEW OF THE RED LINES THAT WERE COMPLETED IN CHAPTER ONE. FAIRLY, UH, STRAIGHTFORWARD CHAPTER CHAPTER TWO THEN GETS A BIT INTER A BIT MORE INTERESTING. THIS IS WHERE, UH, WE'RE WE DIRECT THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE ZONING MAP AND THE ZONES THAT WILL IMPLEMENT THE GENERAL PLAN. SO THIS CHAPTER, UH, DOES EXPAND FROM TWO SECTIONS TO EIGHT, AND, UH, TABLE TWO DASH ONE IS REPLACED IN FULL. UM, THERE ARE THREE NEW SECTIONS. UH, ONE IS ABOUT ANNEXED AND UNCLASSIFIED LANDS. WE ALSO ADDED ANOTHER CLARIFICATION ON SECTION AROUND GENERAL PLAN CONSISTENCY. AND WE'RE ADDING A SECTION THAT DESCRIBES HOW THE FORMER ZONES HAVE TRANSFORMED INTO SUCCESSOR ZONES. THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR CODE IMPLEMENTATION, ESPECIALLY AS WE'RE GOING BACK AND DOING HISTORICAL RESEARCH ON A SITE'S, UH, DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY OVER THE YEARS. AND WE WANT TO SEE WHAT THAT ZONING WAS WHEN, UH, DEVELOPMENT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED VERSUS MAYBE, UH, WHAT MIGHT BE ALLOWED TODAY. SO, UH, WE THINK THAT THAT'S A GOOD ADD AND, AND VERY VALUABLE. AND THEN, UM, THE ZONING MAP, WE PROVIDE SOME CLARIFICATION ON HOW IT BECOMES A-A-G-I-S RECORD THAT'S MAINTAINED BY THE CITY. UH, WE CLARIFY THAT, UH, A ZONING ORDINANCE IS REQUIRED TO BE ADOPTED TO AMEND THE GIS RECORD, AND THEN WE MAKE PROVISIONS FOR, UM, HOW A, UH, A PAPER COPY OF THE ZONING MAP CAN BE OBTAINED. UM, THE, THE CORE WORK IN THAT WAS REALLY TO ESTABLISH ZONING FAMILIES IN HIS OWN NAME CONVENTION, UH, AS WELL AS TO CREATE THE FORMATIVE SUCCESSOR TABLE THAT I JUST DESCRIBED. AND, UH, WE'LL LOOK ON THAT, UH, IN THE NEXT SLIDE HERE. SO WE, UH, BASED UPON THE GENERAL PLAN LAND USE DESIGNATIONS, THEY SORTED, UH, THROUGH THE GENERAL PLAN INTO FOUR FAMILIES OF LAND USES, RESIDENTIAL MIXED USE, COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL AND PUBLIC AND OPEN SPACE. UM, I THINK WE CAN TAKE THE RESIDENTIAL AS, AS AN EXAMPLE, PREVIOUSLY IN OUR IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE, WE HAD THE RR ZONING DISTRICT OR RURAL RESIDENTIAL. THEN WE HAD ZONES ONE THROUGH ZONE FIVE. UH, AND THAT WAS PROBABLY HELPFUL IN UNDERSTANDING, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY WERE RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS. AND THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU ASSUME THEN THAT THE ONE THROUGH FIVE INDICATED AN INCREASE IN ALLOWABLE DENSITY OR INTENSITY OF LAND DEVELOPMENT. UH, WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE IS, IS CONTINUING TO RETAIN THE FAMILY PREFIX, BUT THEN A REFERENCE DIRECTLY TO THE GENERAL PLAN LAND USE DESIGNATION, SO THAT VLR VERY LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL RDIV, DIVERSE, LOW DENSITY, UH, RESIDENTIAL, RMD, MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AND SO FORTH. WHEN WE VETTED THIS WITH, UH, PLANNING DIVISION STAFF, THEY ACTUALLY PREFERRED THIS APPROACH BECAUSE IT DOES GIVE THEM A CLEAR SIGNAL THAT THE ZONING DISTRICT HAS CHANGED. SO, AGAIN, WHEN THEY'RE GOING BACK LOOKING AT AN APPROVALS THAT A PROJECT MIGHT HAVE RECEIVED, IF THEY'LL SEE LIKE AN R TWO OR A REFERENCE TO AN R FOUR, THEY WOULD KNOW THAT THAT WAS UNDER THE IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE. HOWEVER, IF THEY SEE THE NEW REFERENCE UNDER RMD, THEN THEY WOULD KNOW THAT THAT'S UNDER, UH, THE 2026 REFORM WORK. SO IT, IT DOES SEEM TO BE WORKING, UH, QUITE WELL IN THAT REGARD. AND, UM, I THINK AT THIS POINT FOR STAFF WHO HAVE BEEN WRITING AND DRAFTING, UH, IT FEELS PRETTY NATURAL. UH, ONE QUESTION WE WILL HAVE [00:20:01] FOR THE, THE COMMISSION TO THINK ABOUT THIS EVENING IS, UH, WHEN ONE PARCEL SITS IN TWO ZONES, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE AS MANY WHAT WE WOULD CALL SPLIT ZONE PARCELS, UH, COMING FORWARD THROUGH THIS GENERAL PLAN DESIGNATION WORK AS WE DID IN 2008. BUT THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE, UH, SPLIT ZONED FOR VARIOUS REASONS. AND, UH, I THINK IT'S, UH, PRETTY WELL ILLUSTRATED HERE. IF YOU IMAGINE IN THE, THE IMAGE TO THE LEFT, WE'VE GOT ONE PARCEL, A PORTION OF IT IS ZONED MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, AND A PORTION IS ZONED NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER. AND YOU MIGHT THINK ABOUT THIS BEING A PARCEL ON, UM, SAY ELLA AT CAULFIELD, WHERE WE MIGHT BE CALLING FOR A NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER TO BE ESTABLISHED, AND WE MIGHT SEE THAT WE WOULD HAVE A SPLIT ZONE PARCEL. UH, THERE EVENTUALLY, UM, COMBINED THE, UH, THE PARCEL UNDER BOTH ZONING DISTRICTS, UH, COULD SUPPORT 26 DWELLING UNITS. UM, HOWEVER, THAT IT WOULD BREAK OUT THAT THAT CALCULATION OF A TOTAL OF 26 UNITS WOULD BE DERIVED FROM 11 UNITS ON THE PORTION ZONE, MEDIUM DENSITY, AND 15 UNITS ON THE PORTION ZONE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER. UM, SO THERE'S TWO APPROACHES TO THAT. ONE IS THAT YOU REQUIRE THAT THE PARCEL, UH, BE DEVELOPED CONSISTENT WITH ITS ZONING. SO YOU WOULD DEVELOP 11 ON THE, ON THE PORTION ZONE MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL 15 UNITS ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER PORTION, OR WE CAN AGGREGATE THAT DENSITY ACROSS THE SITE AND JUST HAVE, UM, A REGULATION THAT WOULD REQUIRE THAT IT ACHIEVE A MAXIMUM DENSITY OF 26 UNITS ACROSS THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE. SO THAT WILL COME BACK FORWARD, UM, IN THE QUESTIONS BEFORE YOU AT THE END OF THE, UH, SESSION. I THINK WE MIGHT BE GETTING SOME SUPPORT HERE. I'M TRYING , WE'LL KEEP ON GOING JUST IN CASE. UH, CHAPTER THREE, DEVELOPMENT AND LAND USE APPROVALS. UH, AGAIN, ANOTHER STRAIGHTFORWARD CHAPTER. WE, WE, UH, CLARIFIED SOME REFERENCES. UH, WE IMPROVED THE, THE REGULATORY WRITING QUALITY THROUGHOUT, UH, AND WE ADDED A PROVISION SECTION 3 0 3 0.020 THAT WOULD ALLOW THE DIRECTOR TO AUTHORIZE A GRADING PERMIT BEFORE PLANNING APPROVALS ARE COMPLETE. UM, WE'RE DOING THAT FOR THE REASON BECAUSE WHEN WE LOOK AT A SURCHARGE SITUATION AND THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT A SURCHARGE CAN TAKE ANYWHERE FROM 10 MONTHS TO 18 MONTHS TO COMPLETE THE SURCHARGE PROCESS, IF THAT'S REQUIRED, AND IF THAT HAPPENS AFTER A PROJECT HAS BEEN APPROVED, THEN EFFECTIVELY THE PROJECT HAS TO SIT IDLE FOR, FOR THE PERIOD OF TIME OF SURCHARGE, OR IF THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT GRADING SITE STABILIZATION THAT MIGHT NEED TO HAPPEN. WHAT THIS WOULD ALLOW IS FOR THE DIRECTOR TO APPROVE ISSUANCE OF A GRADING PERMIT TO BASICALLY DO THAT PRE-DEVELOPMENT WORK TO PREPARE THE SITE FOR DEVELOPMENT SO THAT THE PROJECT ISN'T, UM, HAVING THE BURDEN OF DOING THAT WORK, UH, WHILE IT'S IN AN APPROVED STAGE, BUT BEFORE CONSTRUCTION CAN BEGIN. SO AGAIN, I BELIEVE WE PRESENTED THAT, UH, WITHIN THE ATTACHMENT AS A POLICY DECISION TO BE MADE, AND WE CAN WORK THROUGH THAT, UH, DURING DISCUSSION. THEN WE GET ONTO CHAPTER FOUR, WHICH IS A MAJOR SECTION OR MAJOR CHAPTER FOUR REVISION. AND THIS IS WHERE, UM, WE ESTABLISH THE ZONING DISTRICTS AND THE ALLOWABLE LAND USES AS WELL AS DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. AND SO WE HAVE 32 LAND USE DESIGNATIONS COMING BEFORE US THROUGH THE GENERAL PLAN TO BE IMPLEMENTED THROUGH 24 ZONING DISTRICTS. AND 23 OF THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS WOULD CARRY A USE TABLE COLUMN. THE ONE THAT WOULDN'T IS THE, UH, RESIDENTIAL MOBILE HOME ZONING DISTRICT, AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE STATE REGULATES MOBILE HOME PARKS AS IT RELATES TO LAND USES AND SUCH. SO HERE IN THE TABLE BEFORE US, UM, HOW THE ZONES TRANSFORM, WE HAVE, UM, WHERE A CURRENT ZONE BECOMES A NEW ZONE, JUST A LATERAL CHANGE REALLY, UH, THAT'S 11 ZONES. AND, UH, THE DRAFTING JUST REQUIRES US TO CARRY ADOPTED VALUES ACROSS AND THEN RECONCILE TO THE GENERAL PLAN, THE, UH, HOUSING ELEMENT AND STATE LAW. UM, IN THE NEXT CATEGORY OF ZONE DISTRICTS, UH, WE HAVE TO CREATE SEVERAL NEW ZONES FROM ONE SHARED COLUMN, AND WE DID THAT WITH 10 ZONING DISTRICTS. SO FOR EXAMPLE, UM, WE HAVE ONE COLUMN EACH FOR MU FOR ONE PREVIOUSLY, UH, ONE COLUMN FOR MU ONE, UH, ONE COLUMN FOR MU TWO FOR CIVIC FACILITIES AND FOR OPEN SPACE. BUT WITH THE NEW LAND USE DESIGNATIONS, THEY SPLIT OUT INTO 10 DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICTS, BUT WE STILL HAVE SOME DNA, IF YOU WILL, BUILT INTO THOSE NEW ZONING DISTRICTS. SO [00:25:01] WE'RE NOT CREATING ENTIRELY NEW ZONING DISTRICTS. THE ONE, UM, WHERE WE HAVE NO VALUES TO CARRY FORWARD, UH, WOULD BE THE FLOODWAY AND, UM, IN THE COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL FAMILY, THE MAKER MIXED USE, UH, OR THE, THE, THE MAKER MICRO, UM, ZONING DISTRICT, UH, THE FLOODWAY ZONING DISTRICT WAS ESTABLISHED IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, BUT IT WAS NEVER IDENTIFIED IN THE TABLE. AND SO WE ARE ADDING IT TO THE USE TABLE, UH, IN, IN THIS ITERATION, THE MAKER MICRO ZONING DISTRICT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PREDECESSOR ZONING DISTRICT, AND WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THAT THIS EVENING. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF SLIDES DEDICATED TO IT TO EXPLORE, UH, WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE, THE INTENSITY OF, UM, COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL USES IN THAT ZONE. AND SO THEN, UH, WE SHIFT OVER THEN FROM THE ALLOWABLE USE TABLES TO THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS TABLES, AND THEY ACTUALLY GAIN QUITE A LOT OF INFORMATION IN THE FORM OF OBJECTIVE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS THAT ARE, ARE, UM, INITIATED THROUGH THE GENERAL PLAN, UH, MAXIMUM HEIGHTS, WHICH DO EXIST. UM, THEY DO GET ADDED AS A ROW BECAUSE WE DO ADD STORIES, UH, THE NUMBER OF STORIES AS WELL AS THE EXPLICIT HEIGHT, UH, AND THOSE, UH, THEN THERE'S A NOTE ABOUT HOW, UM, THE NUMBER OF STORIES, UH, IS READ IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT. THEN WE INCLUDE OUR MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM DENSITY ROWS, AND WE ADD OUR FAR, UH, DIRECT FROM THE GENERAL PLAN. AND THERE'S AN EXAMPLE THERE OF THE MINI CENTER AND NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER, UH, WHICH ARE ESTABLISHED THROUGH THE MU UH, ONE, LET, LET'S SEE HERE. I THINK THE, THE MINI CENTER TAKES U ONE A, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. AND NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER IS A COMBINATION OF MU ONE A AND MU ONE B. UM, BUT THE, THE MAX FAR FROM THERE SHIFTS DOWN A BIT TO 2.0. AND THEN WE, WE ALSO RECORD THE CHANGE IN MAXIMUM HEIGHT FOR, UH, PUBLIC AND EDUCATION ZONES RAISING THE STANDARD FROM 25 TO 35 FEET. I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE HERE ON OUR DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS TABLES, UH, IS THAT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO CONFORM WITH THE GENERAL PLAN OBJECTIVE DATA. UH, WE WILL HAVE SOME DISCUSSION THEN ABOUT LOOKING AT SOME SETBACK STANDARDS, UH, LOT COVERAGE AND SO FORTH IN RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS WHERE WE DO WANT TO DO SOME TEST FITTING AND LOOK AT ADJUSTING THOSE, UM, OBJECTIVE STANDARDS. THEN WE WANT TO INTRODUCE, UH, FOR DOWNTOWN MIXED USE ZONING, DISTRICT SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARDS TO SUPPORT HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AND, UH, PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY ZONES, UM, IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. UM, AT PRESENT, AND I THINK YOU WOULD RECALL THIS FROM THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY DISCUSSIONS WHERE WE DID ESTABLISH THE, THE PEDESTRIAN ACTIVATION ZONES, AND WE GAVE THEM SPECIFIC FACADE STANDARDS, FRONTAGE STANDARDS, SETBACKS, COVERAGE, AND SO FORTH. AND THAT REALLY, UH, BECOMES THE STRUCTURE OR THE FRAMEWORK FOR ESTABLISHING THE SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARDS FOR THE DOWNTOWN MIXED USE ZONING DISTRICT. OF COURSE, THE GENERAL PLAN DIRECTS A MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE HEIGHT OF 45 FEET OR FOUR STORIES. UM, BUT THESE OTHER STANDARDS THEN HELP ENSURE THAT, UH, ANY FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, WHETHER IT IS A MIXED USE PROJECT WITH A GROUND FLOOR, UM, COMMERCIAL COMPONENT REQUIRED, OR WHETHER IT MIGHT BE A HUNDRED PERCENT RESIDENTIAL, THAT, THAT THE, AT LEAST THE THE, UM, DESIGN AND THE DEVELOPMENT FROM THE APPEARANCE WOULD, WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE, UH, EXISTING DEVELOPMENT THROUGHOUT THE DOWNTOWN. UH, WE ALSO HAVE, UH, ARE ABLE TO BRING OVER, UM, STEP BACKS FROM HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND, AND, UH, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND SO THAT'S IMPORTANT AS WELL AS WE'RE CURRENTLY DOING SOME TEST FITTING AROUND, UM, STEP BACKS AS IT RELATES TO, UH, THE HEIGHT. AND, UH, WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT THAT, UM, AS THE, AS THE DISCUSSION EVOLVES. SO I THINK THAT ONE QUESTION WE WANNA BRING BEFORE THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING, AND I CAN PULL UP SOME IMAGERY LATER ON, IS, UM, HOW WE WANT TO DESIGNATE THE FRONTAGES AND THE TWO RULES THAT WE HAVE THERE. ONE OPTION IS TO DESIGNATE, UH, AT THE STREET LEVEL WHERE A GROUND FLOOR MUST BE NON-RESIDENTIAL, AND THEN ALLOW, UM, ELSE ANYWHERE THAT'S NOT DESIGNATED TO BE 100% RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO DO THE OPPOSITE TO DESIGNATE WHERE WE WOULD BE OKAY WITH 100% RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND THEN ALLOW THE REMAINDER TO BE REQUIRED TO HAVE GROUND FLOOR COMMERCIAL USE. SO, UH, WE CAN REVISIT THAT DURING DISCUSSION AS WELL. THEN ADDITIONALLY, WE KNOW THAT THE, UH, THE [00:30:01] PATTERN OF DEVELOPMENT IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN A LOT COVERAGE OF RIGHT AT ABOUT A HUNDRED PERCENT. UM, AT PRESENT AND BRINGING FORWARD EXISTING STANDARDS FOR THE DOWNTOWN AREA LOT COVERAGE WOULD BE LIMITED TO 80%. UH, THE, THE PROPOSAL WOULD ALLOW FOR COVERAGE TO EXCEED 80% THROUGH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT PROCESS. HOWEVER, WE COULD WRITE IN OBJECTIVE CRITERIA THAT IF A DEVELOPMENT MET THOSE OBJECTIVE CRITERIA, THEN IT COULD AUTOMATICALLY, UH, GAIN ACCESS TO THE ADDITIONAL 20% OF LOCK COVERAGE. SO THAT'S ONE, UH, CONCEPT THAT WE'RE WORKING ON. AND THEN THE, UH, ADDITIONALLY, WHAT MAKES A GROUND FLOOR ACTIVE, UM, THE WAY THAT WE'RE PROPOSING IT AND LOOKING AT IT NOW, IS THAT THAT GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATING USE WHERE A MIXED USE BUILDING REQUIRES GROUND FLOOR, UM, TO BE NON-RESIDENTIAL, WOULD HAVE TO BE A COMMERCIAL USE. UM, HOWEVER, EVEN IF IT IS A HUNDRED PERCENT, UH, RESIDENTIAL BUILDING, THE, UH, THE GENERAL PLAN REQUIRES THAT 20% OF THAT GROUND FLOOR SQUARE FOOTAGE BE, UM, ACTIVATED SQUARE FOOTAGE AT THE STREET LEVEL. AND THEN WE'RE ALSO DOING THE TEST FIT ON THE STEP BACKS. I MENTIONED THAT, UM, BECAUSE AT 40 FEET, THE STEP BACKS GET QUITE SEVERE IF WE'RE LOOKING AT A 10 FOOT STEP BACK OVER TWO STORIES. SO THEN, UH, FROM CHAPTER FOUR AND THE ALLOWABLE LAND USE AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, UH, WE HEAD INTO CHAPTER SIX, WHICH IS THE, UH, FLOODWAY AND FLOODPLAIN CHAPTERS. THIS IS A, A VERY HIGHLY TECHNICAL AND INTENSE CHAPTER IN THE, UM, GENERAL PLAN. I THINK YOU, YOU PROBABLY ALL REMEMBER REVIEWING THAT CHAPTER. UM, IT GIVES US A LOT OF OBJECTIVE CRITERIA TO MEET. ADDITIONALLY, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, THESE STANDARDS THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THAT CHAPTER. THEY HELP THE C THE CITY, UH, MAINTAIN ITS CLASS SIX RATING FOR THE COMMUNITY RATING SYSTEM, AND THEN THAT DIRECTLY IMPACTS, UH, THE FLOOD IN THE FLOOD INSURANCE RATES FOR, UH, PROPERTIES THROUGHOUT THE CITY. AND SO, UM, THIS CHAPTER HAS UNDERGONE A FULL REWRITE. THE TEAM HAS BEEN WORKING VERY CLOSELY, UH, WITH, UH, THE CITY'S FLOODPLAIN ADMINISTRATOR, AS WELL AS THE CONSULTANTS WHO WORKED ON, UH, THE FLOOD MAPPING AND SEA LEVEL RISE WORK. AND, UM, THEY EXTEND, THEY EXPAND THE FLOODPLAIN AND FLOOD PRONE AREAS OVERLAY, UH, BEYOND THE FEMA SPECIAL FLOODS, FLOOD HAZARD AREAS TO INCLUDE FUTURE FLOOD HAZARD AREAS. AND THAT DOES START TO, UH, BRING IN THE SEA LEVEL RISE DATA THAT ARE MAPPED FOR THE GENERAL PLAN. THIS IS DRAFTED AND IN REVIEW, WE DO HAVE, UM, HEATHER GITZ FROM THE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE TEAM AVAILABLE REMOTELY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, UM, SHOULD YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS CHAPTER. AND SO, UH, ONE HALLMARK OF THIS CHAPTER, WHAT'S, WHAT WOULD CHANGE FOR A BUILDER IS THAT STRICTER CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS IN THE FLOOD PLAIN. UM, THESE ARE DIRECTED AGAIN BY THE GENERAL PLAN AND TO SUPPORT THE BASIS OF THE CRS, UH, IN THE 100 YEAR FLOODPLAIN, NEW STRUCTURES MUST HOLD A FINISHED FLOOR, TWO FEET ABOVE THE BASE FLOOD ELEVATION. UH, PREVIOUSLY THIS WAS NOT APPLIED TO COMMERCIAL STRUCTURES. UH, IT WOULD BE IN THIS ROUND OF AMENDMENTS, AND THEN NO DEVELOPMENT IS ALLOWED WHERE THE FLOOD WIDER DEPTH IS ANTICIPATED TO BE, UH, EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN TWO FEET, AND THAT'S FOR THE 100 YEAR FLOODPLAIN. THEN WHEN WE MOVE ON TO THE 500 YEAR FLOODPLAIN, THE NEW BUILDINGS WOULD BE REQUIRED TO HOLD A FINISHED FLOOR, ONE FOOT ABOVE, UM, DESIGNED FLOOD ELEVATION. AND THAT IS DEFINED THEN IN THE, UM, IN THE FORTHCOMING AMENDMENTS TO SUPPORT COMPLIANCE WITH THAT REQUIREMENT. AND THEN IN THOSE AREAS THAT ARE PROJECTED TO BE INUNDATED BY SEA LEVEL RISE, UM, A PROJECT MUST BUILD ABOVE THE PROJECTIVE FLOOD HEIGHT OR CARRY AN ADAPTATION PLAN. SO THE, UH, THE REGULATIONS WOULD PROVIDE SOME FOR SOME FLEXIBILITY THERE. WHAT THAT ADAPTATION PLAN SAYS IS THAT THE DEVELOPER WOULD HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE PROJECT COULD BE RECONSTRUCTED, REDESIGNED, AND RECONSTRUCTED, UM, SO THAT THE FINISHED FLOOR COULD BE LAID, BE, UH, RAISED OUT OF SEA LEVEL RISE AT A LATER POINT IN TIME. THERE ARE SOME IMPLICATIONS TO THESE AMENDMENTS. UM, THE INCREASED REGULATIONS WOULD INCREASE COST OF DEVELOPMENT. UM, HOWEVER, THEY DO REDUCE THE RISK OF, OF LOSS DUE TO FLOODING, AND THEY HELP THE CITY TO MAINTAIN A CRS RATING. UH, CHAPTER 11, PARKING AND LOADING, UM, THE FIRST, THE FIRST ITERATION OF THIS IN PHASE [00:35:01] ONE, UH, REALLY MODIFIES OBJECTIVE STANDARDS RELATED TO, UM, THE CALCULATION OF RESIDENTIAL PARKING BY UNIT SIZE RATHER RATHER THAN BEDROOM COUNT, AND, UH, REDUCING PARKING FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. ADDITIONALLY, WE DO POINT TO AB 2097, WHICH, UH, IS STATE LAW PROHIBITING THE CITY FROM, UM, REQUIRING A MINIMUM AMOUNT OF PARKING FOR MOST LAND USE, UM, DEVELOPMENT WITHIN HALF A MILE OF A MAJOR TRANSIT STOP. AND SO WE WANT TO REFLECT THAT IN OUR, UM, PARKING ORDINANCE AS WELL. UH, NEXT WE WANT TO, UH, TO LOOK TO THE QUESTION ABOUT HOW WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO FACILITATE SHARED PARKING, UH, WHICH IS A PARKING AREA THAT IS USED BY MORE THAN ONE ESTABLISHED USER BUSINESS. UM, WE OFTENTIMES WILL SEE THAT WHERE A DAYTIME USE MAY HAVE A PARKING NEED, BUT THEN AN EVENING USE ADJACENT TO AT A RESTAURANT OR PERHAPS A BAR OR TAVERN USE ADJACENT MIGHT HAVE MORE NEED FOR IT IN THE EVENING. AND HOW COULD THEY USE THAT SAME PARKING LOT, UM, BUT SHARE IT ACROSS THEM. UH, THE, THE, THE QUESTION THERE RIGHT NOW, IT CURRENTLY REQUIRES A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REVIEW. AND, UM, WHAT WE WANT TO EXPLORE AND ASK FOR THE COMMISSION'S INPUT IS IF WE WOULD REDUCE THAT REQUIREMENT TO DIRECTOR APPROVAL, AGAIN, BASED ON SOME OBJECTIVE CRITERIA. THEN WE MOVE ON TO A CHAPTER 24 SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW. AND I THINK THAT, UM, BOTH 11 AND 24, YOU CAN THINK OF AS DOING, UH, THOSE AMENDMENTS ARE REFORMED THAT WE'RE OBLIGATED TO DO SO. IN BOTH CASES. PHASE TWO WILL TAKE US INTO A LARGER REFORM EFFORT, BOTH AROUND PARKING REFORM CITYWIDE. AND THEN, UM, AS WE LOOK ACROSS CHAPTER FOUR, WHICH, UH, WHICH HOLDS ALL OF OUR DISCRETIONARY ENTITLEMENT REVIEW REQUIREMENTS AND LOOK COMPREHENSIVELY ACROSS IT. BUT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE IN PHASE ONE, IN CHAPTER 24 IS REALLY EXPLORING IF WE COULD EXEMPT HOUSING DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, UH, FROM SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF UNITS. AND WE WOULD CONSIDER THAT TO BE A STREAMLINING MEASURE TO US TO SUPPORT HOUSING PRODUCTION ACTIVITY. AT PRESENT, THE, UH, THE DRAFT AMENDMENT IS WRITTEN TO EXEMPT A MAX A PROJECT WITH UP TO 10 UNITS, UM, NOT INCLUDING ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS FROM THE SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW REQUIREMENT. UM, CURRENTLY AT, UH, WE WOULD ONLY, LET'S SEE, ONLY SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING UNITS ARE EXEMPTED FROM SPAR REVIEW. ANYTHING ABOVE THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO SPAR REVIEW. SO THIS WOULD, UH, WOULD TAKE IT FROM, UH, UP TO TWO TO 10 UNITS. THE 10 UNIT THRESHOLD IS A POLICY DECISION, AND WE ARE LOOKING FOR, UM, THE COMMISSION TO PROVIDE SOME ADVICE ON THAT. UM, BUT WE DO HAVE SOME BASIS IN CALIFORNIA LAW. SO IN, UH, IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA HOUSING LAW, UM, STOPS TREATING A PROJECT AS A SMALL HOUSING PROJECT AT 10 UNITS. AND SO WE ARE ABLE TO PEG IT TO EXISTING POLICY, UH, THERE. AND THEN WE HAVE SOME, SOME LOCAL POLICY LOOKING AT SB 10 STREAMLINING STATE LAW, BUT WITH LOCAL APPLICATIONS. AND THEN, UM, ALSO THE HOUSING ELEMENT IN PROGRAM SEVEN, UM, DIRECTS US TO REVISE PROCEDURES, BUT IT DOESN'T SPECIFY A NUMBER OF UNITS. SO WE DO FEEL LIKE WE DO HAVE POLICY GUIDANCE, UH, FOR THE RECOMMENDATION OF A 10 UNIT THRESHOLD THERE. UH, UH, LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE THAT YOU DO SUPPORT IT AT 10 UNITS. SO A 10 UNIT HOUSING DEVELOPMENT PROJECT WOULD BE EXEMPT FROM SPAR. IT WOULD STILL BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH OBJECTIVE STANDARDS, INCLUDING OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT ARE SET FORTH IN SECTION 7.120, UH, CHAPTER 27, RESIDENTIAL RESIDENTIAL DENSITY BONUSES, GETTING A REWRITE, UH, THAT REWRITE WILL SIMPLY ALIGN AT 100% WITH STATE LAW REQUIREMENTS. AND SO WE'LL BRING THAT FORWARD TO YOU IN THE SEPTEMBER 15TH PACKAGE. AND THEN CHAPTER 28, THE GLOSSARY, UH, GUESS SOME INCREMENTAL REVISIONS IN PHASE ONE. FOR EVERY NEW LAND USE, WE NEED TO DEFINE IT. SO THAT CHANGES THE GLOSSARY. UH, WE ALSO, UH, DEFINE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT PROJECT FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE PROPOSED, UM, SPAR EXEMPTION IN CHAPTER 24. AND THEN WE ALSO WANT TO INTRODUCE, UH, FOR DISCUSSION AND DIRECTION DEFINING AND REGULATING DATA CENTERS AS WELL AS THOSE MAKER MICRO, UM, USES IN THAT NEW ZONING DISTRICT. SO, UH, PRESENTED WITH YOUR ATTACHMENTS, THE CHAPTER 28 REDLINE WAS A DRAFT, UH, [00:40:01] DEFINITION OF A DATA CENTER. AND THIS IS FAIRLY GENERAL IN NATURE IN TERMS OF HOW IT DEFINES IT. UH, IT REFERS TO IT AS A BUILDING PORTION OF A BUILDING OR A GROUP OF BUILDINGS USED PRIMARILY TO HOUSE COMPUTER SYSTEMS AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT FOR THE STORAGE MANAGEMENT PROCESSING OR TRANSMISSION OF DIGITAL DATA. AND ITS OPERATED AS A PRINCIPLE USE ON THE SITE. SO THIS, THIS, UM, PRIMARY USE OR PRINCIPLE USE OF ON THE SITE, UM, SPECIFICALLY FOR THE STORAGE MANAGEMENT PROCESSING OR TRANSMISSION OF DIGITAL DATA, DOES NOT INCLUDE, UH, A USE SIMILAR THAT WOULD BE ACCESSORY TO ANOTHER PRIMARY USE, UM, OR THAT, AND THAT WOULD OCCUPY LESS THAN APPROXIMATELY 10,000 SQUARE FEET OF GROSS FLOOR AREA. THE REASON WE, WE WANT TO, UH, HAVE THIS EXCLUSION FOR AN ACCESSORY TYPE OF USE IS BECAUSE MANY BUSINESSES, ESPECIALLY LARGER BUSINESSES, TECHNICALLY WE'LL HAVE SOME FORM OF A DATA CENTER. UH, IT MIGHT BE A, IT COULD BE A SMALL 10 BY 10 ROOM WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE THEIR SERVERS AND SO FORTH, BUT THEY WILL HAVE, UH, THAT TYPE OF, UM, FACILITY THAT SERVERS, DATA STORAGE DEVICES, NETWORK AND TELECOMMUNICATION EQUIPMENT THAT WOULD, UH, BE DEFINED AS A DATA CENTER. SO WE WANNA RECOGNIZE THAT THE VERY SMALL SCALE ACCESSORY TYPES OF USES ARE COMMON TO, TO MANY OF THE USES WE SEE THROUGHOUT THE CITY TODAY AND TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT. AND THEN WE ALSO WANNA RECOGNIZE THAT, UH, YOU MAY HAVE A, A RESEARCH AND DESIGN USE THAT HAS A LARGER SQUARE FOOTAGE OF, UM, THOSE TYPES OF SERVERS DOING THAT TYPE OF WORK, AND SORT OF PUT A SQUARE FOOTAGE LIMIT ON THAT. UM, WE ALSO WANNA EXCLUDE TELECOMMUNICATIONS OR WIRELESS COMMUNICATIONS FACILITIES THAT ARE REGULATED CURRENTLY BY OUR MUNICIPAL CODE CHAPTER 14.44, UH, AND OR THE FEDERAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS ACT. SO THE FEDERAL ACT DOES, UM, PROHIBIT US FROM, UH, REGULATING CERTAIN TELECOMMUNICATIONS FACILITIES. CHAPTER 14.44 RECOGNIZES THAT AND, UH, AND RESPONDS TO THAT ALREADY. UH, SO WE'LL, WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO, UH, TO CONVERSATION AND DISCUSSION AROUND THE DEFINITION OF DATA CENTERS FROM THERE, THEN WE HAVE COMPANION AMENDMENTS IN THE SMART CODE. AND, UM, THESE COMPANION AMENDMENTS REALLY DO, UH, A SIMILAR THING TO WHAT WE DID IN CHAPTER TWO, UH, WITH, WITH, UM, ESTABLISHING ZONING DISTRICTS. AND THEN IN CHAPTER FOUR, ASSIGNING THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS TO USE AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. UH, AT PRESENT, THE SMART CODE, IT, IT, IN THE REGULATORY PLAN, IT IDENTIFIES THE ZONING DISTRICTS, BUT IT DOESN'T ESTABLISH THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS OR DESCRIBE THEIR PURPOSES IN THE SAME WAY THAT THE ZONING ORDINANCE DOES FOR THE REST OF THE CITY. SO, UM, IN THE ATTACHMENT, THE SMART CODE ATTACHMENT IN YOUR MEETING ITEM PACKET, WE TALK THROUGH WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE TO AMEND THE SMART CODE TO DO THAT. WE DO THEN BRING ACROSS, UM, SOME OF THOSE, UH, GENERAL PLAN DESIGNATION FACTORS, UH, DENSITY, FAR AND SO FORTH THAT ARE NOT ALREADY IN THE SMART CODE, AND WOULD THEN ADD THEM TO, UM, THE, THE, UH, BUILDING FORM STANDARDS SECTIONS, THE URBAN FORM STANDARDS AND SO FORTH. UH, THAT'S A FAIRLY ISOLATED AND SPECIFIC AMENDMENT. THE REASON IS BECAUSE, UH, THIS FALL, THE CITY WILL BE KICKING OFF ITS DOWNTOWN STATION AREA PLANS UPDATE PROJECT. AND SO THAT UPDATE PROJECT WILL BE ABLE TO THEN, UM, FULLY EMBRACE THESE, UH, PHASE ONE AMENDMENTS THAT, THAT WE'RE PROPOSING. AND SO HERE WE CAN SEE THAT WE GO FROM IN BLACK THE, UH, THE ZONING DISTRICTS, IF YOU WILL, OR ZONES THAT WERE IN THE EXISTING, UM, SMART CODE, AND THEN THE ADD THE NEW ONES THAT WILL BE ADDED, UH, TO CONFORM TO THE GENERAL PLAN. AND HERE, UH, THE GAP IS CLARIFIED THAT THE GENERAL PLAN ASSIGNS EACH DESIGNATION A DENSITY FLOOR AREA RATIO AND HEIGHT. HOWEVER, THE SMART CODE HAS NO DENSITY, UM, AND HAS NO FLOOR AREA RATIO FOR ANY ZONE, UH, REGULATES HEIGHT AND STORIES ONLY. UM, PROBABLY THE FACT THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT I THINK IS, UH, MORE ABOUT THE, THE TRAITS THAT IT SHARES AS A FORM-BASED CODE, UH, WITH, WITH THAT CONCEPT AS OPPOSED TO IT, UM, FORGETTING TO ADD THOSE OR, OR NOT INCLUDING THEM FOR SOME OTHER REASON. [00:45:02] SO WE CAN PAUSE THERE IF YOU, IF YOU WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS OR I CAN CONTINUE ON. WE'VE GOT JUST TWO MORE, MUCH SHORTER SECTIONS, UH, WHICHEVER YOU WOULD PREFER. KEEP GOING. YEAH, YOU GOOD? KEEP GOING. GREAT. OKAY. YEAH, CONTINUE. OKAY. SO THEN WE'RE, WE WANT TO HEAD INTO A LITTLE BIT DEEPER DIVE ON, ON HOUSING REFORM AND WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT IN PHASE ONE, UH, WITH A PARTICULAR FOCUS ON PERMISSIONS, PROCESS AND FEASIBILITY. SO WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT IS, UH, PERMISSION IS THE LEGAL QUESTION. UM, IS THE RESIDENTIAL USE, UM, OR RESIDENTIAL HOUSING TYPE ALLOWED ON THE PARCEL? AND IS IT ALLOWED BY RIGHT, RATHER THAN SUBJECT TO DISCRETIONARY REVIEW. OUR GOAL IS TO ALLOW ALL RESIDENTIAL USES, UH, OR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT THROUGHOUT THE CITY, THE LAND USE BY RIGHT, UH, THEN THE PROCESS OR PROCEDURAL QUESTION, IF IT IS ALLOWED BY RIGHT THEN, WHAT APPROVAL DOES IT REQUIRE? UM, AND HOW CAN THE APPLICANT LEARN THAT ANSWER, UH, BEFORE, YOU KNOW, INVESTING IN THE PROJECT. UM, THAT'S PARTLY THROUGH PRE-APPLICATION PROCESSES. BUT IF, LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE, THAT YOU SUPPORT, UM, THE AMENDMENT TO EXEMPT UP TO 10 UNITS FROM SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW REQUIREMENT, A PROJECT COULD HAVE THE RESIDENTIAL LAND USE ALLOWED BY WRIGHT, BUT STILL BE REQUIRED, UM, TO BE SUBJECTED TO SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW AS A DISCRETIONARY ENTITLEMENT. SO THEN WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT PROCESS, IF WE RETAIN THAT DISCRETIONARY ENTITLEMENT, THEN WE WANT TO THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE STREAMLINE THAT REVIEW PROCESS TO GAIN CERTAINTY IN TERMS OF THE TIME PERIOD OF REVIEW, UM, AND TO ALLOW THE OUTCOME, UH, TO BE, UH, TO REDUCE RISK FOR THE, THE, UH, DEVELOPER. AND THEN THERE'S A FEASIBILITY, UH, QUESTION TOO. IF WE'RE ABLE TO WORK WITH PERMISSIONS AND WITH PROCESS, ARE WE ACTUALLY ESTABLISHING STANDARDS THAT MAKE IT FEASIBLE FOR A PROJECT TO BE CONSTRUCTED? AND WE CAN LOOK AT A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES THERE IN SOME FORTHCOMING SLIDES. SO, UH, BECAUSE THE PROJECT NEEDS TO DO ALL THREE, WE'RE DRAFTING TOGETHER, UM, IN THIS SECTION. SO YOU'LL SEE THE PERMISSIONS QUESTION ANSWERED IN SECTION 4.030, AS WELL AS THE ALLOWABLE LAND USE TABLES. UM, THE FEASIBILITY SECTION AT 4.040, AND THEN PROCESS IN SECTIONS 24.050 SPAR REFORM, AS WELL AS 3.030 DEVELOPMENT AND LAND USE APPROVALS. SO THAT'S WHERE YOU REALLY START TO SEE AN INTEGRATION OF, UM, CHAPTERS WHEN WE GET TO, UH, SORT OF THESE MORE REFORM ORIENTED QUESTIONS, ESPECIALLY AROUND HOUSING. I THI I THINK THIS IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE WE, WE WANT TO, AND WE WILL BE TALKING A LOT ABOUT SMALL SCALE, UM, INFILL HOUSING AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEVEL, THE TYPE OF HOUSING THAT A PROPERTY OWNER AS DEVELOPER OR A SMALL SCALE DEVELOPER COULD DO, UM, USING, USING STAFF SUPPORT, USING THE OBJECTIVE CRITERIA THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. BUT WE SEE THAT WE'VE ALREADY GOT A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THIS THROUGHOUT THE CITY. AND, AND SO IF YOU TAKE A WALK, YOU KNOW, DOWN THE STREETS, AND IF YOU LOOK AROUND CAREFULLY, YOU'LL SEE COTTAGE, UH, CORD EXAMPLES, SOME FOURPLEX AND MULTIPLEX SMALL SCALE MULTIPLEX, UH, THREE AND FOUR UNIT PROJECTS, UM, THE FAIR STREET AT BASSETT, WHICH IS ACTUALLY I BELIEVE A TRIPLEX OR EVEN A FOURPLEX, AND THEN SOME INTERESTING SMALL LOT DEVELOPMENT AT 3 26 ENGLISH STREET. SO I THINK WHAT THIS SAYS TO US IS, AT ONE POINT IN TIME WE WERE ABLE TO DO THIS, AND THEN WE ZONED AWAY THE ABILITY TO DO THIS. AND SO NOW AS WE TALK THROUGH HOUSING REFORM IN PHASE ONE AND PHASE TWO, WE'RE LOOKING FOR THOSE OPPORTUNITIES TO BRING IT BACK AND TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS THROUGHOUT THE CITY. UH, TWO EXAMPLES OF PROJECTS THAT WHILE THEY WERE ABLE TO ACHIEVE APPROVAL, UH, THE FEASIBILITY OF IMPLEMENTATION IS LIMITED AND, AND, UH, IS PROHIBITING THEM FROM MOVING FORWARD IN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. ONE IS, UM, THREE 15 LAKEVILLE STREET, WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY PROPOSED AT, I'M SUPPOSED TO REMEMBER THIS, FOUR UNITS AND WAS APPROVED AT THREE UNITS PERHAPS. AND THEN AT 1 31 LIBERTY STREET, WHICH ACTUALLY REVISITING THIS PROJECT SITE, UH, AWAKENED US TO THE NEED TO PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO, UM, HOW WE CAN ALLOW 100% RESIDENTIAL IN THE DOWNTOWN MIXED USE ZONING DISTRICT. SO IN THESE CASES, PERMISSION AND PROCESS, WE WERE ABLE TO ANSWER YES, ALTHOUGH THERE WAS DISCRETIONARY, UM, QUITE EXTENSIVE DISCRETIONARY PROCESS IN BOTH OF THESE PROJECTS. BUT THE FEASIBILITY ANSWER IS NO. AND [00:50:01] SO WHAT WE WANT TO LOOK TO AS WE, UM, EXPLORE, UH, DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS AND SUCH IS HOW DO WE CHANGE THAT NO ON FEASIBILITY TO A YES. UM, THEN IN THE USE TABLES, WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, BRIEFLY ABOUT RECONFIGURING THOSE, UH, HOW THE NEW HOUSING TYPES WOULD ENTER INTO THE RESIDENTIAL, UH, TABLES, AND THEN HOW WE, UH, GET TO THOSE USES ALLOWED BY RIGHT, UM, IN ALL INSTANCES. AND THEN ALSO ADDING THE MINIMUM DENSITY ESTABLISHED ACROSS ALL 11 OF THE ZONES. AND THEN, UM, EXCUSE ME, WHERE STATE LAW REQUIRES US TO OPEN UP A ZONE TO RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, UH, IN, UH, THROUGH AB 2011, SB SIX, SB FOUR, AND SO FORTH, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE CODIFYING THOSE REQUIREMENTS AS WELL. AND THEN REMOVING DISCRETION WHERE STANDARD ALREADY GOVERNS. UM, SO AGAIN, LOOKING AT THAT, THAT EXEMPTION THRESHOLD IN SPAR AS ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES, UM, USING OUR OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, BUT PERHAPS ACCEPTING CERTAIN STANDARDS FROM THE LIST IF WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE NOT, THAT THEY WOULD BE PROHIBITIVE TO SMALL SCALE DEVELOPMENT. UH, WE'RE TESTING THROUGH SOME OF THAT RIGHT NOW, AND, UM, WE'LL HAVE THOSE TEST FITS FOR YOU, BE ABLE TO FULLY, UH, ANALYZE THEM, UH, WHEN WE COME BACK IN SEPTEMBER. THE CLEAREST EXAMPLE THOUGH IS, UH, WHERE, WHERE WE LOOK AT THE GENERAL PLAN ACTION LU LAND USE 3.2 0.4 DIRECTS US TO ESTABLISH A 20, UH, 800 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM LOT, AND WE APPLY THAT IN THREE ZONES. HOWEVER, THE CURRENT LOT WIDTH AND DEPTH, UH, WOULD NOT ALLOW THAT 2,800 SQUARE FOOT LOT TO BE ESTABLISHED. AND SO WE HAVE TO GO BACK AND MODIFY THOSE, UH, UM, STANDARDS TO BE ABLE TO ALLOW IT IN. THE EXAMPLES SHOWN HERE, UM, THE, IN THE RESIDENTIAL LOAD DENSITY ZONING DISTRICT, WHILE WE COULD SET THE MINIMUM LOT AREA AT 2,800 SQUARE FEET, THE WIDTH AND DEPTH WOULD REQUIRE US TO PRODUCE AT LEAST A 3,500 SQUARE FOOT LOT. SO WE'LL BE, WE ARE ALREADY DOING THAT WORK. AND, UM, THAT IS SHOWN, UH, SOME OF THAT WORK IS SHOWN HERE. UH, THIS IS ONE OF OUR, UH, TEST FIT SCENARIOS, AND THIS IS, UM, TESTING, UH, ACHIEVING A FOUR UNIT DEVELOPMENT ON A 3000 SQUARE FOOT LOT. UM, BOTH OF THESE ARE CONTAINED IN GENERAL PLAN ACTIONS, UH, STATEMENTS. AND SO HERE WE CAN SEE THAT WE'VE APPLIED DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS AS THEY CURRENTLY, UM, ARE ESTABLISHED TWO OR 3000 SQUARE FOOT LOT. THIS IS AN ACTUAL LOT. WE, WE DID, UM, PULL IT FROM OUR, UM, PARCEL INVENTORY. AND WHEN WE DO THAT, THEN WE FIND THAT WE WE'RE ABLE TO ACHIEVE A DEVELOPABLE AREA OF 1,320 SQUARE FEET. AND, UM, THAT WOULD PROVIDE FOR A PARKING AREA OF 1200 SQUARE FEET, ACHIEVE THE CURRENT OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENT OF 600 SQUARE FEET. BUT WHEN WE TESTED IT AT, UM, WE TESTED THIS AT A FOUR UNIT DENSITY, AND IT DOES RESULT IN A FAIRLY SMALL, UM, UNIT SIZE. AND SO WE'RE CONTINUING TO WORK ON THESE AND EVOLVE THESE. UH, ANOTHER EXAMPLE THEN IS A CORNER LOT. I THINK THIS ONE, IT BECOMES EVEN MORE CLEAR. UH, CURRENTLY OUR CORNER SETBACKS IN THE LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT, WE WOULD HAVE A FRONT SETBACK OF 20 FEET CORNER SIDE SETBACK OF 15 FEET AND A REAR SETBACK OF 20 FEET. AND THAT REALLY REDUCES THE DEVELOPABLE AREA ON THE PARCEL. AND SO, UM, THAT SHRINKS IT DOWN THEN TO, UM, A DEVELOPABLE AREA OF ABOUT 2000 SQUARE FEET. THEN WE REDUCE OUT WITH THE, UH, THE TWO PARKING SPACES THAT ARE REQUIRED. UM, AND WE TEST THAT DENSITY THEN OF, UH, TWO UNITS WE WOULD BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE, ACHIEVE TWO UNITS OF 970 SQUARE FEET EACH. SO, UH, WHAT I THINK WE SEE THERE IS THAT WE WOULD WANT TO REDUCE THOSE FRONT CORNER AND REAR SETBACKS, UM, TO PROVIDE FOR MORE DEVELOPABLE AREA TO GET TO A, A HIGHER NUMBER OF UNITS OR, OR LARGER UNIT SQUARE FOOTAGES. THE NEXT, UH, BIG DEEP DIVE THAT WE'LL DO IS IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. AND, UM, WHAT WE CAN DO IN PHASE ONE, SOME OF THIS WORK WILL SPAN TO PHASE TWO, AND WE HELD, WE CONVENED, UH, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT LED THE CONVENING. AND THEN, UM, THE ZONING REFORM TEAM PARTICIPATED ON AUGUST 17TH. WE, WE GATHERED TOGETHER ABOUT 12 TO 15 BUSINESS AND, AND, UH, COMMERCIAL BROKERS FROM THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY. UH, THEY'RE WORKING WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, [00:55:01] UH, BUSINESSES WHO ARE INTERESTED IN, UH, LOCATING IN PETALUMA AND JUST ASK SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE AND WANTED TO LEARN WHERE THE CHALLENGES ARE, UH, AND, AND WHERE, WHERE WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO LOOK FOR SOME IMPROVEMENTS. UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY TALKED ABOUT WAS, UM, THE UNCERTAINTY RELATED TO A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUIREMENT, UH, BOTH IN TIME, THE UNCERTAINTY OF THE APPROVAL AND THEN COST AS WELL. UM, AND THEN THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES IF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS REQUIRED, HOW THAT ADDS ONTO DOING THEIR DUE DILIGENCE. AND THEN, UM, THE, UH, FINALLY AN ESTIMATE OF HOW OFTEN A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT ENDS A TRANSACTION OUTRIGHT, AND THEY ESTIMATED THAT ABOUT 75% OF THE TIME, UH, THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUIREMENT IS PRETTY LIMITING TO A RETENANTING ACTIVITY. WE ALSO WANNA NOTE HERE THAT IN JANUARY WHEN WE BROUGHT THE PROJECT FORWARD IN ITS, UH, CONCEPT, UH, WE, YOU MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT YOU WANT TO BALANCE THE NEED FOR COMMERCIAL AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REFORM WITH HOUSING REFORM. AND WE'RE STRIVING TO DO THAT, UH, BOTH HERE IN PHASE ONE AS WELL AS IN PHASE TWO. UH, THIS EVENING WE HAVE JOINING US, UH, NANCY SANDS FROM THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TEAM, AND, UH, SHE WAS, UH, ONE OF THE LEADERS IN THE AUGUST 17TH, UM, SESSION AS WELL. SHE WORKS REGULARLY WITH THE BROKER COMMUNITY AND, AND IS AVAILABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. SO, UM, WHAT WE DO THINK THAT WE CAN DO IN PHASE ONE IS WE CAN CLARIFY THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUIREMENT IN THE TABLES SO THAT ANYBODY CAN LOOK AT A TABLE AND UNDERSTAND IF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS REQUIRED, IF THAT WOULD BE AN ADMINISTRATIVE OR MINOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, UH, WHERE THE DIRECTOR IS THE REVIEW AUTHORITY, OR IF IT WOULD BE A MAJOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME TO PLANNING COMMISSION. AND AT PRESENT, THAT'S NOT ALWAYS CLEAR. AND, AND SO THAT DOES CREATE SOME UNCERTAINTY WHEN, UM, UH, A POTENTIAL, UM, BUSINESS TENANT ISN'T ABLE TO LOOK AT THE DEFINITION, CLEARLY DEFINE THEIR USE, AND THEN CLEARLY UNDERSTAND WHAT, UH, PERMIT MIGHT BE REQUIRED. AND SO, SO THEN WHAT WE WOULD WANT TO DO IS MOVE WHAT WE CAN MOVE, TAKE SOME OF THESE PRIORITY USES WHERE WE CAN AND TRANSITION THEM FROM A CONDITIONAL ALLOWANCE TO, UH, BEING PERMITTED BY, RIGHT. AND WE THINK THAT IN SOME CASES WE CAN DO THAT BY ESTABLISHING A MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE. UH, FOR INSTANCE, WE DID THAT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WITH, UM, THE, UH, GENERAL RETAIL, UM, UP TO 25,000 SQUARE FEET AND OVER 25,000 SQUARE FEET. SO WE PUT A SQUARE FOOTAGE THRESHOLD AND THEN CALIBRATED THE REVIEW REQUIREMENT TO THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE THRESHOLD. WE THINK THAT THAT'S A, UH, A PRETTY STRONG TOOL THAT WE COULD USE, UH, AND THEN CLASSIFY WHAT IS NOT CLASSIFIED AT PRESENT. DATA CENTERS ARE NOT DEFINED OR REGULATED IN THE ORDINANCE. UM, MOVIE THEATERS WERE ALSO PROHIBITED. THAT WAS A FUNCTION OF THE THEATER DISTRICT OVERLAY, WHICH HAS ALREADY EXPIRED. SO WE ARE, UM, GOING TO ADD THOSE AS A DEFINITION AND THEN, UM, ADD THEM TO THE ALLOWABLE LAND USE TABLES, AND THEN OF COURSE, GIVING, UH, THE MAKER AND MICRO BUSINESS ZONE A HOME AND ESTABLISHING THE LAND USES THAT WOULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. AND, UM, THEN FINALLY, I THINK THIS WILL START DIVERGENT TO PHASE, UH, TWO I WOULD ANTICIPATE, BUT, UM, REALLY DOING SOME FOCUSED WORK AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL GAP TO GET THAT SMALL SCALE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL WITHIN WALKABLE, UH, DISTANCE OF ALL RESIDENTIAL USES THROUGHOUT THE CITY. SO TO, UH, PAUSE BRIEFLY ON THE MAKER ZONE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT IT HAS A PURPOSE, BUT IT'S, IT'S LACKING THE CONTENT. UNFORTUNATELY, THAT CONTENT NEED IS REALLY FOCUSED IN, UH, ESTABLISHING THE ALLOWABLE USES FOR THAT ZONE. UM, THE GENERAL PLAN, UH, LAND USE DESIGNATION ALREADY PROVIDES FLOOR AREA RATIO FOR US, UM, A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF THREE STORIES OR 50 FEET. AND, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS REALLY REFLECT VERY CLOSELY TO THE BUSINESS PARK ZONE. WHAT WE THINK WE CAN DO HERE FOR ALLOWABLE LAND USE IS, IS WE CAN LOOK TO THE INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICT, THE BUSINESS PARK ZONING DISTRICT, AND THEN A COUPLE OF OUR, UH, PLANNED COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENTS, WHICH ARE COMMERCIAL IN NATURE THAT SEEM TO BE PERFORMING REALLY WELL, UH, FOR THE BROKERS AND KIND OF LOOK ACROSS ALL OF THOSE LAND USES AND SEE HOW WE CAN BRING TOGETHER THOSE LAND USES TO MAKE IT A, A MAXIMALLY BENEFICIAL, UM, NEW ZONING DISTRICT. AND THEN WHAT REMAINS OUTSIDE OF THIS THAT WOULD, WOULD MOVE TO PHASE TWO AS IT RELATES TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REFORM. UH, WE, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET TO NON-CONFORMING USE FLEXIBILITY. [01:00:02] UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTIVE STANDARDS THERE, SO THERE WOULD BE POLICY DECISIONS. UM, CHANGE OF USE AND PARKING TRIGGERS ARE A PART OF THE CHAPTER 11, PHASE TWO WORK THAT'S BEEN LONG PLANNED THROUGH PARKING REFORM. AND THEN TO GET TO SOME OF THE DOWNSTREAM NEEDS THAT WE HAVE IN THE BUILDING CODE AND IN THE FIRE CODE. UM, A SPRINKLER RETROFIT THRESHOLD, FOR EXAMPLE, IS REGULATED BY THE FIRE CODE, AND THAT WOULD BE A SEPARATE PROJECT EFFORT. THEN, UM, AND THEN, UH, UH, GENERAL PLAN, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ACTION, 1.5 0.1, UH, IS ASKING US TO BE ABLE TO CONFIRM THAT A PROJECT BELONGS TO AN EXEMPT CLASS. AND TO CREATE THAT VERY SIMPLE ZONING CLEARANCE TOOL OR SOMETHING, UH, WOULD COME IN SOME PHASE TWO REFORM. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE, KIND OF WITH BOTH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND WITH, WITH HOUSING, THAT THAT REMOVAL OF THE BARRIERS DOES NOT NECESSARILY CREATE DEMAND, RIGHT? IT WOULD CREATE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE MARKETS TO ACT ON DEMAND THAT EXISTS. SO I THINK, UH, AS WE, WE THINK ABOUT AND LOOK FOR, UM, HOW WE MEASURE THE RESULTS OF THE ACTIONS WE TAKE IN PHASE ONE AND BEYOND, WE WANT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT, UH, THAT THESE DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES ARE STILL ALWAYS GOING TO BE VERY SUBJECT TO, UH, TO MARKET DEMAND IN ALL, IN ALL WAYS. SO THEN WE GO INTO, UH, THE FOUR PAGES OF QUESTIONS AND DIRECTION THAT WE WOULD BE SEEKING FROM YOU THIS EVENING. UH, WE CAN TALK THROUGH THEM AS WE GO ALONG. I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH THEM ONE BY ONE HERE. UH, IN FACT, IN ALL CASES, I BELIEVE I BROUGHT THEM UP DURING, UH, MY PRESENTATION. WE HAVE SOME CHOICES THAT ARE NEEDING DIRECTION. WE CAN TALK THROUGH THOSE AND THEN PERMIT LEVEL AND THRESHOLD QUESTIONS, UM, WHERE DIRECTION WILL BE BENEFICIAL, UH, TO HELPING US GET TO THE NEXT STEPS. RIGHT? SO AFTER TODAY'S STUDY SESSION, WE HAVE TO GO BACK AND HIT IT HARD TO BE ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER, UM, THE, THE DRAFT ORDINANCE FOR YOU TO REVIEW ON SEPTEMBER 15TH, UH, IN ORDER TO, UH, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL. AND SO WE'LL, WE'LL CONTINUE DRAFTING RIGHT UP UNTIL, UH, WE PUBLISHED THAT ON SEPTEMBER 9TH. WE'LL PRODUCE THE DOWNTOWN FRONTAGES MAP, UM, THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE ON, ON, UH, FOR AT THE SEPTEMBER 15TH MEETING AS WELL. WE'RE ALWAYS AVAILABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, UM, TAKE RECOMMENDATIONS AND SO FORTH, UH, THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS. AND SO WITH THAT, WE LOOK FORWARD TO, UH, RESPONDING TO YOUR QUESTIONS AND TO, TO, UH, RECEIVING SOME ADDITIONAL DIRECTION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT PRESENTATION. AND THAT WILL BRING US TO THE, UH, COMMISSION QUESTIONS. I THINK WE CAN, UM, ASK ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WE MIGHT HAVE HERE. UM, OTHERWISE WE CAN JUMP INTO PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN BRING IT BACK FOR DISCUSSION. BUT DO WE HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, CLARIFICATIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? OKAY. THEN WE'LL GO INTO GENERAL, EXCUSE ME, PUBLIC COMMENT. UM, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO COMMENT ON THIS ITEM. PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON. AND IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE SO ALREADY, PLEASE FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD AND BRING IT TO THE CLERK. AND I WILL SLOWLY ASK, UM, THE CLERK IF WE HAVE RECEIVED ANY COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING. WE RECEIVED THREE PUBLIC COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING, ALL OF WHICH HAVE BEEN POSTED ONLINE. THANK YOU. AND I'LL TAKE THOSE IN-PERSON CARDS AND I'LL TAKE HIS WHEN HE'S READY WITH IT. ALRIGHT, FOR OUR FIRST PUBLIC COMMENT, WE'VE GOT DARREN KUSON. THANK YOU, URIEL AND COMMISSION. I'M JUST GONNA WALK THROUGH NOTES I SENT IN AN EMAIL, PUBLIC COMMENT AT, WELL, THAT AS WELL THAT GETS INTO DETAIL. AND ANDREW AND HIS PRESENTATION MAY HAVE ANSWERED SOME OF THESE. UH, BUT THE FIRST ONE IS REALLY ON THE TIMING AND ANY POTENTIAL DISCREPANCIES THAT EXIST. SO, PHASE ONE OF THESE UPDATES IS COMING IN NOVEMBER, 2026, IT LOOKED LIKE. AND PHASE TWO IS COMING IN TO BE IMPLEMENTED OR ADOPTED IN JUNE, 2027. THERE'S A COUPLE AREAS I FOUND WHERE THERE'S SOME CROSS REFERENCES BETWEEN RELEVANT CHAPTERS IN EACH OF THOSE PHASES. AND JUST MAKING SURE WE'VE ISOLATED WHERE THERE MIGHT BE DISCREPANCIES OR AREAS THAT LAG BEHIND IN THE PHASE TWO PIECES, BECAUSE THAT'S A PRETTY LONG LAG TIME OF SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS. UH, I LABELED SOME OF THOSE EXAMPLES IN MY EMAIL. UM, SECONDLY, THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY, FROM MY INTERPRETATION OF READING THIS IN TABLES TWO DASH TWO AND TWO DASH ONE, IT LOOKS LIKE THE OVERLAY IS MARKED AS EXPIRED. UM, THERE IS ALSO A REFERENCE TO, UH, 5.070, WHICH [01:05:01] IS THE EXISTING CHAPTER FIVE. WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS ON OVERLAYS. WE GOT RID OF A REFERENCE, UH, FOOTNOTE REFERENCE TO THAT SECTION. SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE'VE KIND OF PEELED EVERYTHING OUT OF THE CHAPTERS YOU'RE REVIEWING TONIGHT ABOUT THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY. MY QUESTION IS, DO WE REMOVE 5.070 RIGHT NOW AND JUST GET RID OF IT IN THIS PHASE BECAUSE WE'VE CLEARLY INDICATED THAT, OR IS THERE LIKE A DEFINITE INDICATION THAT YES, WHEN PHASE TWO COMES AROUND, THAT WILL BE REMOVED FROM SECTION FIVE JUST TO KIND OF GET A FIRM DIRECTION ON, ON THAT ISSUE. UM, AND THEN IN CHAPTER ONE, THERE IS AN ITEM I SAW IN CHAPTER ONE, SUBSECTION 1.040, UH, D NUMBER FIVE. THERE WAS A PIECE IN THERE ABOUT THE DIRECTOR HAVING DISCRETION, UH, FOR BASICALLY ADOPTING, UH, WHEN, WHEN THERE IS A STANDARD MORE PERMISSIVE THAN THIS ZONING ORDINANCE, THE STATE REQUIREMENT CONTROLS AND THE DIRECTOR SHALL ADMINISTER THIS ZONING ORDINANCE ACCORDINGLY WITHOUT AMENDMENT. NOW, I, I WILL LOOK TO STAFF FOR AN INTERPRETATION OF THAT, BUT DOES THAT MEAN EVERY FUTURE KIND OF STATE HOUSING LAW OR ANY TIME THAT WE ARE FORCED TO HAVE OUR ZONING ORDINANCE BE MORE PERMISSIVE BY STATE LAW? UM, IS IT UP TO THE DIRECTOR TO DETERMINE WHETHER THAT CHANGE IS APPLICABLE TO A CHARTER CITY AND WHETHER WE AUTOMATICALLY UPDATE OUR IEO BASED ON THAT INFORMATION? IS THAT SOLELY IN THE DOMAIN OF THE DIRECTOR AND DOES NOT NECESSITATE A PLANNING COMMISSION OR CITY COUNCIL HEARING TO PROCESS THAT AMENDMENT? UH, AND THEN I THINK DETERMINING WHAT WE DO WITH MAKER MICRO BUSINESS, WE'VE ALREADY HIGHLIGHTED THAT. I'VE NOT LIKED THAT SECTION SINCE IT CAME, OR THAT DESIGNATION SINCE IT CAME ALONG. 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S FOR. IT'D BE GREAT TO GET DIRECTION THERE. ALSO TALKING ABOUT MINIMUM DENSITIES, FIGURING OUT IF THERE'S A SECTION IN CHAPTER FOUR OR SOMEWHERE ELSE, WE CAN DESCRIBE MINIMUM DENSITY, WHY WE HAVE IT. I ALSO LISTED SOME QUESTIONS I HAVE ABOUT HOW THAT WOULD BE CALCULATED AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT RESIDENTIAL NONCONFORMING USES. AND THEN FINALLY, PARKING. JUST MAKING SURE WE UNDERSTAND THOSE PARKING MINIMUMS, THREE UNITS AND UP 1.5 SPACES FEELS REALLY LOW. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH. NEXT UP, WE'VE GOT, UH, DWAYNE BELLINGER. UM, GOOD EVENING. UH, FIRST OF ALL, WANTED TO SAY THAT, UH, UH, 373 PAGES WORTH OF, UH, MATERIAL TO BE LOOKED AT IS, IS MORE THAN I'M CAPABLE OF, UM, UH, TAKING IN. AND I WANNA THANK YOU ALL FOR DOING SO MUCH GOOD WORK ON THIS. I I HAD ASKED IN THE PAST THAT, UM, UH, THAT WE MAINTAIN WITHIN OUR LAWS HOW TO PRESERVE, UH, THINGS LIKE LEGHORN PARK, THE, THE PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT THE HOUSES THERE, THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT THEY HAVE A MARKET IF THEY WERE PLANNING ON A WALKABLE COMMUNITY AND NOT NECESSARILY OWNING TWO CARS AND ALL THAT. AND, BUT TONIGHT, I I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR WHATEVER, UH, GOT DONE THERE TO, UH, PRESERVE, UM, THE, UM, A SMALL MARKET AND, BUT FOR BUILDING THE, UM, PETALUMA NORTH STATION, I'D LIKE TO SEE WHERE WE CAN, UH, INSIST THAT WE BUILD A SMALL MARKET IN A COMMUNITY. IF WE'RE GONNA BUILD A WALKABLE COMMUNITY AROUND A RAIL STATION, WE NEED A SMALL MARKET AND WE NEED TO, TO SET IT SO THAT SOMEBODY WHO'S LOOKING FOR SOME OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD A, A WHATEVER, UH, UM, A A, UM, SOME OTHER BUSINESS CAN'T COME IN AND JUST DESTROY WHAT ALL THE PEOPLE WERE IN NEED OF IN ORDER TO HAVE A WALKABLE COMMUNITY. AND THAT, OF COURSE, INCLUDES A LOT MORE THAN JUST A SMALL MARKET, BUT THE PARKS AND, AND SCHOOLS AND AND, AND THAT KIND OF THING. BUT I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR PAYING ATTENTION TO THAT KIND OF PROBLEM. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT, WE WILL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT AND BRING THE ITEM BACK TO COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION, THOUGH. I WILL TAKE A QUICK PAUSE TO SEE IF STAFF WANTS TO RESPOND TO ANY OF THOSE PUBLIC COMMENTS. SORRY, CHAIR. I THINK THE, UM, THE ONE THAT IS THE MOST, THE, THE, THE MOST CLEAR TO RESPOND TO, UM, IS THE SECTION 1.040 D, SUBSECTION FIVE. AND THIS IS A NEW SECTION THAT WE ARE ADDING WHERE WE DID WANT TO CLARIFY, UM, WHAT AND HOW THE CITY RESPONDS TO STATE LAW. AND, AND THAT'S WHAT THAT, THAT SUBSECTION SEEKS TO DO. UH, IT DOES RECOGNIZE THAT WHERE A STATE STATUTE IS APPLICABLE TO THE CITY, AND WE DO IDENTIFY IN ITS CAPACITY AS A CHARTER CITY, AND THAT IT WOULD REQUIRE THE CITY, UM, TO FOLLOW A PROCEDURE THAT IS MORE PERMISSIVE THAN THE STATE REQUIREMENT CONTROLS, [01:10:01] WHICH IS THE PROCESS THAT WE CURRENTLY USE RIGHT NOW IS SORT OF RECOGNIZING THAT AND, AND, UM, MAKING IT OFFICIAL IN THE ORDINANCE. UM, SO JUST TO GAME THAT OUT, THAT WOULD BE A STATE LAW THAT COMES DOWN THE PIKE THAT IS SORT OF TRYING TO OPEN UP OUR REGULATIONS FURTHER THAN WE HAVE THEM CURRENTLY. RIGHT? I, I THINK, AND IT'S DEEMED APPLICABLE THAT IT APPLIES TO PETALUMA, AND THEN WE WOULD JUST SAY, OKAY, WE'RE DEFERRING TO THE STATE LAW AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, BRING IT TO COMMISSION TO HASH IT OUT WHEN IT'S CORRECT, FLATLY GOING TO APPLY. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, EXAMPLE IS AB 2097, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT WHAT ELIMINATES A MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENT WITHIN HALF A MILE OF HIGH QUALITY TRANSIT IN, IN, UH, IN THE CITY OF PETALUMA. THE HIGH QUALITY TRANSIT IS BOTH OF THE, UH, SMART STATIONS DOWNTOWN AND NORTH STATION. SO IT IS MORE PERMISSIVE THAN OUR CURRENT CODE. THE STATE SAYS THAT WE HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THAT. WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT GIVEN AN OPTION THERE. AND WE DO, WE DO FULLY COMPLY WITH THAT, BUT WE HAVEN'T WRITTEN THAT INTO THE CODE ANYWHERE AS OF YET. WE DIDN'T AMEND THE CODE IN ORDER TO IMPLEMENT THAT. AND WHAT THIS SECTION SAYS IS, UM, THAT WE HAVE TO DO THAT. AND, AND STILL THEN I THINK, AND, AND I'LL LOOK TO DYLAN TO, TO, UM, PICK THIS UP, BUT THEN IT SAYS THAT IT, IT STILL DOESN'T WAIVER LIMIT OUR AUTHORITY OVER MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS. SO IT'S CLARIFYING THAT FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE AS WELL. NOW, IN SOME CASES, STATE LAW WILL SAY THAT WE HAVE TO ADOPT AN ORDINANCE THAT REFLECTS X, RIGHT? AND, AND SO CHAPTER 27, THE RESIDENTIAL DENSITY BONUS ORDINANCE CHAPTER, UM, WE HAD ONE IDEA THAT WE COULD RESCIND THAT CHAPTER AND JUST REFER TO STATE, STATE LAW, WHICH WOULD'VE MAYBE BEEN MORE CHALLENGING FOR THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY BE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE CAN UNPACK IT IN OUR ORDINANCE AND, AND CLARIFY AND SIMPLIFY IT. BUT WHEN WE WENT BACK TO LOOK AT, AT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT OPTION THAN WE REALIZED THAT IN FACT, STATE LAW SAYS THAT EVERY JURISDICTION SHALL ADOPT A DENSITY BONUS ORDINANCE. SO IN THAT CASE, AND, AND WHEN WE BRING FORWARD THE, THE, UH, REWRITTEN CHAPTER, IT WILL EFFECTIVELY REFLECT STATE LAW, BUT WE'RE REQUIRED BY STATE LAW TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS OF ADOPTING. AND I'LL JUST ADD TO THAT ANDREW'S CORRECT, WE DO HAVE THAT LITTLE CARVE OUT FOR MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS AS A CHARTER CITY. WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO PREEMPT THE STATE LAW WHEN THERE IS CONFLICT, WHEN THERE'S FOR MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS AND REALLY ZONING, A LOT OF ZONING IS A MUNICIPAL AFFAIR, UH, NOT A STATEWIDE CONCERN FOR THE STATE, BUT A LOT OF THE HOUSING LAWS, THOSE ARE STATEWIDE CONCERNS. SO I THINK WE HAVE A NICE LITTLE FLEXIBILITY WHERE WE'LL GO TO THE STATE LAW, UH, WHEN IT'S MORE PERMISSIVE, UNLESS IT'S A MUNICIPAL FAIR, THEN WE CAN KIND OF MAKE THAT DECISION IF WE DON'T WANNA COMPLY. GREAT. AND DO ANY OF THE LAWYERS UP HERE WANNA CHIME IN ON THAT? YOU HAVE THOUGHTS THAT YOU WERE REACHING FOR YOUR MUTE BUTTON? NO. OKAY. GREAT. ALRIGHT, THEN WE WILL, UM, OPEN IT UP TO BROADER COMMENT HERE AMONG THE COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF. TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU WANT US TO SORT OF STICK TO THIS DOCUMENT OR START SOMEWHERE IN PARTICULAR THAT CAN PERHAPS HELP US GUIDE THE, I THINK WE, I THINK IF YOU JUST WANNA OPEN WITH YOUR, YOUR COMMENTS AND, AND DISCUSSION, AND I CAN TICK OFF WHERE WE'RE HITTING THOSE, THOSE QUESTIONS OKAY. OR REQUESTS AND WHATEVER WE HAVE LEFT AT THE END, WE'LL PICK BACK UP. YEAH, YEAH. I'LL, I'LL KICK IT OFF. UM, SO I'M GONNA START WITH DATA CENTERS, SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN MOVE PAST IT. UM, SO, UM, CURRENTLY, UH, IN THIS, WHAT I'M, WHEN I READ 10,000 SQUARE FEET, UM, BASICALLY WE WOULD NOT PERMIT ANY DATA CENTERS OVER 10,000 SQUARE FEET. IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, IT WOULD, THE 10,000 SQUARE FOOT LIMIT WOULD BE TO A DATA CENTER AS AN ACCESSORY USE. GOT YOU. SO, UM, SO, SO IT WOULD HAVE TO HAVE, THERE WOULD BE TWO CRITERIA. FIRST, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ACCESSORY AND IT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED LARGER THAN 10,000 SQUARE FEET. GOT YOU. SO, UM, ANY STANDALONE DATA CENTER WHERE IT IS A PRIMARY USE WOULD BE PROHIBITED. IS THAT ACCURATE? YES. OKAY. AND THEN, UM, THE 10,000 SQUARE FOOT NUMBER, WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? IS THAT, UM, WHERE, WHY DID WE PICK 10,000 SQUARE FEET? I GUESS I WOULD SAY JUST LOOKING ACROSS, YOU KNOW, THE [01:15:01] BEST PRACTICES RESEARCH THAT WE DID, UM, THAT WAS EMERGING AS, AS A REASONABLE NUMBER. OKAY. WE DIDN'T CALIBRATE IT TO, UH, ANY PARTICULAR, UH, KNOWN USE OR, OR, UH, ANY EXAMPLE, SPECIFIC EXAMPLE OF THE INDUSTRY. BUT WE WERE LOOKING ACROSS, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT, UM, REVIEWS AND DATA, LOOKING AT OTHER JURISDICTIONS AND WHAT THEY WERE USING AND SO FORTH. OKAY. UM, AND THEN WE'VE SEEN OTHER CITIES, GILROY, HAYWARD, THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, PURSUING THIS, CAN YOU, UM, I'VE HEARD SOME PEOPLE TALK ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, OUR TAX, UM, SITUATION ACTUALLY DOESN'T MAKE DATA CENTERS A GOOD USE. CAN SOMEONE SPEAK TO THAT AND HOW THAT, UM, THAT WORKS? I COULD DO THAT. I COULD DO THAT. COUNCIL MEMBER. THERE YOU GO. BRIAN O DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. UM, SO JUST TO PUT A FINER POINT TO IT, I, UM, IT'S IN THE STAFF REPORT. WE, UH, CURRENTLY CITYWIDE, WE DON'T HAVE, IT'S ESSENTIALLY A PROHIBITION FOR, UM, STANDALONE DATA CENTERS. I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATION, UM, REALLY THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, BUT, UM, MORE CLOSER TO HOME COUNCIL MEMBER. YOU, UM, RAISED GILROY AS AN EXAMPLE. PITTSBURGH IS ANOTHER ONE, UH, WHERE YOU ARE SEEING THESE LARGE DATA CENTERS THAT CITIES ARE ACTIVELY RECRUITING, WHETHER IT'S FOR REVENUE GENERATION. UM, AND THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE, UM, UH, A IS IN OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY, UM, TO, UH, TRY TO FACILITATE, TRY TO, UM, COURT, UM, DATA CENTERS, AND B THE, WHEN WE LOOK AT, UM, THE PROSPECTS. SO WHEN DATA CENTER, IT'S LOW, UH, JOB CREATION, UM, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF CONVERSATION IN THE MEDIA AROUND, UM, HIGH RESOURCE UTILITY. UM, AGAIN, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S ALLOWED HERE. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT, UM, WE ARE ACTIVELY PURSUING. UM, AND THE REVENUES JUST DON'T, I MEAN, WHEN YOU TALK TO, UM, OUR, SOME OF THESE JURISDICTIONS, THE DRAW FOR THEM IS, UM, FOR INCREASING THEIR TAX BASE. AND THAT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HERE LOCALLY BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF. UM, AND SO FOR ALL THOSE REASONS, UM, AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, JUST THE, THE VALUE OF LAND HERE. UM, MANY, MANY REASONS WHY WE DON'T ANTICIPATE, UM, NOR INTEND TO FACILITATE ANY DATA CENTERS, STANDALONE DATA CENTERS IN PETALUMA. GREAT. UM, SO COUPLE OF THOUGHTS ON HOW TO MAKE IT LIKE IMMINENTLY CLEAR TO THE, UM, TO THE PUBLIC, TO, TO EVERYBODY, UM, THAT DATA CENTERS AREN'T ALLOWED. COULD WE ADD DATA CENTERS TO THE TABLES AND THEN PUT DASHES SO THAT THEY AREN'T, UM, YOU KNOW, MAKE CLEAR THAT THEY'RE JUST NOT ALLOWED IN ANY OF THE LAND USE DESIGNATIONS? UM, ABSOLUTELY WE CAN DO THAT. UH, AND WE WOULD WANT TO DO THAT BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S, UH, TO BE EXPLICIT ABOUT IT AS BETTER THAN TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WELL, WE DON'T, THEY'RE NOT LISTED AND THEREFORE YEAH. UM, THEY'RE PROHIBITED. THE OTHER THING THAT WE COULD DO IS, UM, INCLUDE IN THE DEFINITION, WE CAN BE EXPLICIT AND SAY THAT DATA CENTERS ARE PROHIBITED IN, IN THE CITY OF PETALUMA. OKAY. UM, AND CAN WE ALSO ADD A SENTENCE TO THE DEFINITION IN THE GLOSSARY THAT SAYS, DATA CENTERS ARE PROHIBITED USE IN PETALUMA? MM-HMM . YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. UM, CAN WE ALSO ADD A SENTENCE THAT SAYS THAT, UM, THEY ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR APPROVAL THROUGH THE SIMILAR IN COMPATIBLE USE PROVISIONS, UH, IN SECTION 3.030? WE, WE CAN CERTAINLY ADD THAT. I, I THINK WE WOULD WANT TO, WE LOOK AT WHERE WE ADD THAT, UM, AND, AND THINK IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO GO IN SECTION, UM, THREE WITH, WITH THESE SIMILAR USES. OKAY. UM, THEN, BUT WE'LL FIND A PLACE FOR THAT FOR SURE. YEAH. I'LL, I'LL LET YOU DECIDE WHERE IT IS. I JUST WANNA MAKE IMMINENTLY CLEAR TO EVERYBODY IN THE PUBLIC AND IN THE MARKET THAT DATA CENTERS ARE, ARE NOT A USE WE'RE RECORDING HERE OR THAT WE WILL PERMIT. UM, AND THEN, UM, IS THERE A WAY FOR US TO, UM, ON THE ACCESSORY ONES, COULD WE REDUCE IT TO, YOU KNOW, A SMALLER NUMBER AND MAKE, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO SAY, LET'S SAY 5,000 AND USE THE DEFINITION OF SMALL DATA CENTER, UM, FOR, AS AN ACCESSORY UNIT AND, UM, ANYTHING ABOVE 5,000 REQUIRES A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO JUST [01:20:01] MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, UM, DISCLOSING ANY, ANY ACCESSORY FACILITIES AND ANY IMPACTS ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT THE, UM, THE COMMUNITY HAS NOTICING AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SURE. WE CAN DO THAT AS WELL AS, UH, YOU KNOW, SHARPEN OUR PENCILS A BIT AND COME BACK WITH, WITH, UM, SOME FACTS TO JUSTIFY THAT. GREAT. UM, THANKS. THOSE ARE ALL MY QUESTIONS ON DATA CENTERS. UM, AND I'D LIKE TO, I WOULD, UM, SUPPORT ALL OF THOSE, UH, AS WELL, UM, TO JUST MAKE IMMINENTLY CLEAR, UM, THAT THEY ARE PROHIBITED. UM, NEXT WE'LL MOVE ON TO THINGS THAT I'M MUCH MORE EXCITED ABOUT, UM, THINGS THAT I WANT, WHICH IS NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING. UM, I REALLY, UH, APPRECIATED SEEING THE IMAGES OF NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING THAT WE HAVE THAT IN OUR COMMUNITY AND THAT WE WANT MORE OF THAT. UM, UH, WAS TALKING TO COMMISSIONER EBNER BEFORE THE MEETING ABOUT THIS, UM, I HAVE A FEW, UH, A FEW THOUGHTS ON THIS. UM, IF WE WERE TO, UM, CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH SORT OF LIKE THE FULL ENTITLEMENT CHAIN FOR LET'S SAY A A FIVE UNIT OR A 15 UNIT, SO ONE THAT'S APPROVED MINISTERIALLY, ONE THAT WOULD NOT BE APPROVED MINISTERIALLY, AND JUST GIVE US A SENSE OF HOW THOSE TWO DIFFERENT, THOSE PROCESSES WOULD DIFFER? SURE. SO THE UNDER, LET'S, LET'S SAY THAT, THAT WE ADOPT A NEW ORDINANCE AND IT DOES EXEMPT, UM, A FIVE UNIT PROJECT FROM SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW. I THINK THE BASE ASSUMPTION WOULD BE THAT THE USE IS PERMITTED BY, RIGHT? SO IN BOTH CASES YOU HAVE THE, THE PERMITTED USE, SO NO, NO LAND USE ENTITLEMENT REQUIRED. THERE. THEY WOULD ALSO BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH ALL OF THE SAME, UM, BASE DISTRICT DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. SO, UM, DENSITY, FAR IF THAT'S APPLICABLE. UM, LOT COVERAGE BUILDING, HIGH SETBACKS AND SO FORTH. UM, BECAUSE THOSE, THOSE BASE DISTRICT DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS WOULD APPLY TO ANY DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY, UM, AND ARE NOT, AND, AND THE SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW REQUIREMENTS SITS OUTSIDE OF THOSE WHERE A PROJECT THAT WOULD WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF, OF THE SPAR EXEMPTION WOULD ADDITIONALLY HAVE TO RESPOND TO ALL OF THE REQUIRED OBJECTIVE STANDARDS THAT ARE IN THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS. AND SO, FOR INSTANCE, THAT MIGHT BE, UM, I THINK OF A PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD ONE IS WE HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BUILDING, THE PRIMARY FACADE HAS TO BE FACING THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, AND MAYBE THEY'VE GOT A DESIGN WHERE THEY DON'T WANT TO FACE THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. AND SO THEY WOULDN'T WANT TO COMPLY WITH THAT STANDARD. THEY COULD OPT TO GO THROUGH THE DISCRETIONARY SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW PROCESS AS A FIVE UNIT PROJECT. THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS THAT THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE MINISTERIAL PROCESS. BUT LET'S, UH, LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE, THAT THEY DO CHOOSE TO GO THROUGH THE MINISTERIAL PROCESS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SPAR EXEMPTION AT THIS POINT IN TIME. THERE'S THEN, THERE'S NO PLANNING ENTITLEMENT REQUIRED FOR THAT FIVE UNIT DEVELOPMENT. THEY WOULD JUST COME IN WITH THEIR BUILDING PERMIT APPLICATION AND GO THROUGH THE, THE BUILDING PERMIT REVIEW PROCESS. SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE SAVING, UM, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF, OF THE AMOUNT OF TIME, PROBABLY ANYWHERE FROM 12 TO, UM, 20 WEEKS, I THINK, UH, AS WELL AS COST WISE, UM, ASSUMING MAJOR, MAJOR SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW, UH, WE WOULD PROBABLY BE AT 12 TO $15,000 PLUS. SO, UH, UM, THERE'S A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT TIME SAVINGS THERE, AS WELL AS COST SAVINGS BETWEEN THE TWO PROJECTS, THE FIVE UNIT THAT GOES STRAIGHT TO BUILDING PERMIT VERSUS THE 15 UNIT THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO GO THROUGH SITE PLANNER AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW. I THINK, UM, WHAT'S IMPORTANT ABOUT THAT IS, IS IN THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW PROCESS, WHEN YOU'RE INCURRING THOSE COSTS BEFORE YOUR CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY BEGINS, YOU AS THE DEVELOPER ARE HOLDING ALL OF THOSE COSTS. SO IF, IF YOU'RE WAITING TO GET, IF YOU'RE WAITING TO COMPLETE, YOU KNOW, YOU BRING FORWARD YOUR PROPOSED DESIGN, YOUR ELEVATIONS AND SUCH, YOU'VE DONE YOUR TEST FIT, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, BUT YOU STILL GO BACK AND YOU STILL HAVE TO BUILD YOUR BUILDING PERMIT, YOUR CONSTRUCTION PLAN SET. AND I CAN SEE COMMISSIONER EBNER NODDING HER HEAD, SHE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT GET YOUR PROJECT APPROVED IN SPAR, BUT THEN YOU'RE GOING TO GO BACK AND TAKE ANOTHER TWO MONTHS OR SO TO DEVELOP [01:25:01] YOUR CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH YOUR BUILDING, UM, PERMIT REVIEW THE, THE DEVELOPER AND THE SMALL SCALE DEVELOPER BECAUSE OF 15 UNITS. THAT'S A FAIRLY, UH, SMALL SCALE, YOU KNOW, SMALL PROJECT, SMALL DEVELOPER PROJECT. THEY HAVE TO HOLD ALL OF THOSE COSTS UNTIL THEY'RE ABLE TO BREAK GROUND AND PULL DOWN THEIR CONSTRUCTION FINANCING. AND SO AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THEY'RE PROBABLY INTO IT, I WOULD IMAGINE, UM, RIGHT AT, IN A BALLPARK OF A HUNDRED THOUSAND, THINKING ABOUT ALL OF YOUR ENGINEERING, YOUR DESIGN FEES AND, AND YOUR ENTITLEMENT FEES THAT YOU HAVE TO HOLD UNTIL YOU CAN PULL DOWN YOUR CONSTRUCTION FINANCING. SO FROM A SMALL, FROM A PROPERTY OWNER'S DEVELOPER TO A SMALL SCALE DEVELOPER PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S A LOT OF INPUT, A LOT OF UPFRONT COST, UM, TO CARRY THAT, THAT COULD BE REDUCED AND AS WELL AS THE RISK REDUCED IF YOU GO STRAIGHT TO A BUILDING PERMIT. GREAT. THANKS FOR THAT, UH, DESCRIPTION. AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, UM, SO SOMEONE, IF SOMEONE HAD TO COME FORWARD FOR, TO, TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UM, WE STILL WOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO APPLY THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS? NO, NO. YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO APPLY FULL DISCRETION, UH, UNLESS THEY CAME FORWARD. SORRY, I I MEAN, CURRENTLY UNDER OUR CURRENT PROCESS, RIGHT, IF SOMEONE WERE TO COME FORWARD, UM, A 10 UNIT PROJECT, LET'S SAY, RIGHT? AND THEY ARE REQUIRED RIGHT NOW TO COME TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND IT TAKES AN EXTRA 12 TO 20 WEEKS IS WHAT I HEARD, RIGHT. AND, UM, BUT WE WOULD STILL BE ONLY ABLE TO APPLY THE, THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS. IS THAT ACCURATE? WELL, YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD APPLY YOUR BASE DISTRICT STANDARDS, BUT NOT YOUR, UM, OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS BECAUSE YOUR OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS ARE NOT TRIGGERED. GOT YOU. RIGHT. BUT IF WE WERE TO USE MINISTERIAL, THEN WE WOULD HAVE, RIGHT, THEN WE WOULD WANT TO TRIGGER THOSE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT AT, AT LEAST WISE IN PHASE ONE, WE HAVE THOSE STANDARDS AND WE CAN USE THEM. OKAY. SO, YEAH. UM, THANK YOU. UM, AND THEN, UM, ARE WE ABLE TO INTRODUCE, LIKE, I KNOW ON A LOT OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC SHOT CLOCKS OR, OR TIMELINES IN THE PROCESS. ARE WE ABLE TO INSTILL ANY OF THOSE IN OUR, THROUGH OUR ZONING CODE AS WE START TO DEFINE THE PROCESSES FOR SOME OF THESE SMALLER PROJECTS? I AM NOT AWARE OF OUR ZONING CODE, OUR CURRENT ZONING CODE, HAVING A SELF-IMPOSED SHOT CLOCK. UM, I THINK AS IT STANDS FOR HOUSING PROJECTS, UM, THE STATE LAW AROUND, UM, TIMING AND PROCESSING IS QUITE, UM, I'D SAY EXPEDIENT. UM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD RECOMMEND ADDING TO THAT, UM, WITHOUT A CLEAR REASON. OKAY. AND, AND THEN, UM, ONE OF THE STATE LAWS THAT PASSED RECENTLY IS, UH, SB 1 1 23. UM, AND, UM, WHILE IT OFFERS SOME PROMISING OPPORTUNITIES FOR SMALL LOT SMALL, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, STARTER HOME PRODUCTION, UM, THE, THE EXISTING STANDARDS THAT, THAT ARE IN THAT DISTRICT STILL APPLY, RIGHT? AND SO HAVE WE LOOKED AT THE POTENTIAL FOR THAT, THAT STATE LAW TO ACTUALLY BE USED IN OUR CITY, UM, TO PRODUCE SMALL STARTER HOMES? UM, AND IF SO, LIKE HOW EXTENSIVE HAS THAT BEEN? WELL, I THINK, UM, WE, WE HAVEN'T DONE THE EXACT COMPARISON YET, BUT I THINK BY EXEMPTING 10 UNIT DEVELOPMENT FROM SPAR AND RUNNING IT THROUGH OBJECTIVE STANDARDS, WE'RE EFFECTIVELY INPUT, WE'RE EFFECTIVELY CREATING A LOCAL VERSION OF SB 10, OR SORRY, UM, 1123. OKAY. UM, AND THEN ALSO DOING THE SETBACK REFORM AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT AS WELL, WE WOULD'VE TO DO SOME OF THAT STUFF, RIGHT? RIGHT. THE SETBACK REFORM IS GOING TO GET INTO THE FEASIBILITY. SO THAT'S, THAT'S LESS ABOUT PERMISSIONS AND PROCESS AND MORE ABOUT US, UM, HELPING TO RICHEN THE ENVIRONMENT TO, TO MAKE PROJECTS FEASIBLE. OKAY. UM, AND THEN, UH, SHARON KIRK'S LETTER FROM, YOU KNOW, TALKED ABOUT IT, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I'VE KIND OF BEEN HITTING ON. YOU HIT ON IT WITH 1 31 LIBERTY, UM, THIS IDEA OF MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOODS VERSUS MIXED USE BUILDINGS, RIGHT? AND WE'RE REQUIRING, YOU KNOW, WE REQUIRE OUR CURRENT ZONING CODE IN DOWNTOWN [01:30:01] REQUIRES, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL COMMERCIAL SPACE WHERE WE HAVE VACANT COMMERCIAL SPACE, RIGHT? WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO IS ADD CUSTOMERS TO FILL THE VACANT COMMERCIAL SPACE. RIGHT? UM, WHAT, UH, LIKE HOW WOULD WE APPROACH THAT IDEA OF TRYING TO, UM, PERMIT, UM, A HUNDRED PERCENT RESIDENTIAL PROJECTS IN THESE AREAS? AND WHAT KIND OF LIKE PARAMETERS COULD WE USE TO, UM, TO ADDRESS THAT? THAT'S A, A REALLY GREAT QUESTION, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, 1 31 LIBERTY IS REALLY OUR, UM, EXAMPLE LOCATION, BOTH 1 31 LIBERTY AND 1 36 COURT STREET, RIGHT? THEY'RE, THEY'RE VACANT PARCELS. IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE SOME, SOME HOUSING DEVELOPED ON THOSE PARCELS BECAUSE IT WOULD BE WALKABLE TO DOWNTOWN. UM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WHEN WE GET OUT TO THOSE STREETS, WE START TO RECOGNIZE THAT THAT THAT, UM, PRIMARY COMMERCIAL USE START DISSIPATES, YOU KNOW, AND, AND THAT MAYBE WE DON'T NEED TO HOLD IT TO THAT STANDARD OF REQUIRING A MULTI-USE DEVELOPMENT THERE WITH GROUND FLOOR COMMERCIAL SPACE THAT, THAT COULD UNDERPERFORM. I, I HONESTLY, I, I'M ALWAYS CHALLENGED TO THINK ABOUT HOW 1 36 COURT STREET COULD EVER BE, HAVE SUCCESSFUL GROUND FLOOR COMMERCIAL SPACE. IT'S A DEAD END STREET, AND THERE'S NO COMMERCIAL ON IT AT PRESENT. SO IT IS AN ARTIFACT OF A, A SPRAWLING MIXED USE REQUIREMENT WHERE, UH, MIXED USE WAS UNDERSTOOD TO BE WITHIN THE BUILDING ITSELF AS OPPOSED TO, UH, BEING ACROSS THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND REALLY LOOKING FOR THOSE OPPORTUNITIES TO PLACE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT PROXIMATE WITHIN A WALKABLE DISTANCE TO COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT. SO I THINK BY, AND THAT'S WHAT WE TRY TO DO IN THE DOWNTOWN MIXED USE SU, UM, SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARDS, IS TO RECOGNIZE THAT, THAT THE, THE ORIENTATION OF THE DOWNTOWN MIXED USE IS TO SEEK, TO PROTECT AND TO CELEBRATE THE HISTORIC COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT EXISTS IN DOWNTOWN, UM, TO THE WEST SIDE OF THE RIVER, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, UM, BY, BY ADDING A POLICY TO ALLOW FOR 100% RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, WHERE IT'S IDENTIFIED IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, ALLOWS US TO THINK ABOUT HOW AS WE GET FURTHER AWAY FROM PETALUMA BOULEVARD, FROM KENTUCKY AND START TO HEAD OUT TOWARDS LIBERTY STREET, HOWARD STREET AND SO FORTH, WE CAN RELAX THAT REQUIREMENT FOR GROUND FLOOR COMMERCIAL AND ALLOW FOR SOME 100% RESIDENTIAL TO EMERGE. OKAY. I'D CERTAINLY BE A PROPONENT OF, OF DOING SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. UM, AS WE MOVE TOWARD, UM, THIS HITS ON THE FRONTAGE DESIGNATION RULE. CORRECT. WHERE YOU HAD OUR OPTION ONE AND TWO HERE. RIGHT. RIGHT. I, I THINK IT MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE TO GO WITH OPTION ONE, WHERE YOU SORT OF CHERRY PICK WHERE GROUND FLOOR MUST BE, AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE A HUNDRED PERCENT RES RESIDENTIAL ELSEWHERE. RIGHT. PERFECT. UM, AND THEN THE FINAL CLARIFYING QUESTION BEFORE WE YEAH, GO FOR IT. GO FOR IT. IS IT, IS IT PO I, I HEAR THAT, THAT THERE WERE TWO OPTIONS PUT IN THE FEEDBACK PORTION FOR THIS ITEM MM-HMM . UM, WHERE THEY SORT OF ALTERNATE REQUIRED RESIDENTIAL OR REQUIRED, UM, YOU KNOW, GROUND FLOOR COMMERCIAL. I, IS IT POSSIBLE TO SORT OF ACHIEVE OUR OBJECTIVE BY MAKING GROUND FLOOR, UH, RETAIL PERMISSIVE OR GROUND FLOOR COMMERCIAL PERMISSIVE AND IT'S AT THE OPTION OF THE BUILDER, THE DEVELOPER, TO PURSUE THAT GIVEN THE MARKET DEMAND AT THE TIME? I, SO, SO CHANGE IT FROM A A RIGHT. A MANDATE LIKE WE HAVE ALTERNATE MANDATES IN THE TWO OPTIONS. CAN WE HAVE A PERMISSIVE I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING IN, IN NOT GOING THAT ROUTE, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS, THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT WE WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE A 100% RESIDENTIAL PROJECT ON PETALUMA BOULEVARD BETWEEN WASHINGTON AND WESTERN STREET. THAT, THAT WE WOULD, WE WOULD WANT ALL GROUND FLOOR TO BE COMMERCIAL ALONG THAT STRETCH OF THE STREET. SO THERE, SO THERE'S A CARVE OUT. WE CAN SAY IT'S PERMISSIVE EXCEPT FOR RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE THEN. SO, SO BY DESIGNATING WE'RE, WE'RE CARVING OUT BLOCK BY BLOCK YEAH. AND BLOCK FACE BY BLOCK FACE WHERE, UM, WHERE EITHER THAT RESIDENTIAL WOULD BE ALLOWED OR WHERE NON-RESIDENTIAL [01:35:01] COMMERCIAL WOULD BE REQUIRED. REQUIRED ONLY ON THE GROUND FLOOR, NOT THE ENTIRETY OF THE BUILDING RIGHT. AT THE GROUND FLOOR. BUT ONCE WE GET OFF OF SOME, YOU KNOW, THAT EXACTLY. SPECIAL SPACE, THEN IT CAN BE PERMISSIVE ALL THE TIME AND RIGHT. ABSOLUTELY. ARE, ARE YOU GETTING AT THE, THE SORT OF BINARY OF, IT'S, IT'S RESIDENTIAL OR IT'S, UH, GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATED WITH COMMERCIAL, YOU'RE SAYING, WELL, IF A RESIDENTIAL WANTS TO HAVE SOME GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATION COMMERCIAL, CAN WE LET THEM? IS THAT SORT OF WHERE YOU'RE YEAH. OKAY. I DO, WE HAVE A ZONE DESIGNATION THAT DOES THAT , THAT IS ALLOWING A HUNDRED PERCENT RESIDENTIAL, BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT THE PROJECT WOULD, WELL, ALL OF THEM. ALL OF THEM EXCEPT THE DOWNTOWN MIXED USE. SO, SO ALL OF THE OTHERS WOULD HAVE, HAVE THAT OPTION FOR A HUNDRED PERCENT RESIDENTIAL EXCEPT FOR DOWNTOWN MIXED USE. AND AGAIN, THAT GOAL IS TRYING TO PROTECT THAT, THAT SORT OF HISTORIC COMMERCIAL DOWNTOWN WHERE WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF WE GO FROM, WELL, IF WE GO FROM OAK STREET DOWN PETALUMA BOULEVARD, EVEN PAST D STREET, WE HAVE NO GROUND FLOOR RESIDENTIAL USES. SO THAT'S A FAIRLY INTACT COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. OKAY. UM, AND, AND THE PRESUMPTION IS THAT WE VALUE THAT WE'VE ESTABLISHED A HISTORIC DISTRICT, YOU KNOW, AND SUCH, AND, AND THAT, THAT THE, THE COMMUNITY LIKES THAT AND THAT THAT'S A, AN IMPORTANT FEATURE OF DOWNTOWN. AND AGAIN, THEN, THEN WE SORT OF SEE THAT A LITTLE BIT, NOT QUITE AS AS LONG, BUT WHEN WE GO BACK TO KENTUCKY STREET, THEN IN FOURTH STREET, WE SEE THAT PATTERN REPEATING ITSELF, BUT THEN IT QUICKLY DISSIPATES AND SHRINKS AS WE HEAD FURTHER OUT. UM, AND SO WE, WE DID A QUICK, WE DID A QUICK, UM, SKETCH TODAY, UH, TIFFANY, YOU KNOW, ROBY, WHO'S BEEN BEEN A PLANNER IN THE CITY FOR 25 YEARS, SHE AND I SAT DOWN AND REALLY IN ABOUT HALF AN HOUR, WE FELT LIKE WE DID A REALLY GOOD JOB OF DESIGNATING THOSE FRONTAGES WHERE, UM, COMMERCIAL WOULD BE REQUIRED. AND THEN BEING A, AND EVEN THE CORNER CAPS, RIGHT? BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOU WANNA TURN THE CORNER ONTO ANOTHER STREET AND CONTINUE THAT COMMERCIAL FOR A, UH, STRETCH OF 20 TO 30 FEET OR SOMETHING. AND WE WERE ABLE TO, TO REALLY RUN THROUGH A LOT OF THE DOWNTOWN MIXED USE ZONING DISTRICT, DO SOME JUST SKETCHES OF ESTABLISHING SOME FRONTAGES. AND, UM, IT SEEMED PRETTY PROMISING. PERHAPS THIS COMPLICATES THINGS FURTHER, BUT I I, I DON'T THINK GROUND FLOOR RESIDENTIAL AND AN ACTIVATED STREET FRONT ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. CORRECT. SO TO TO BE SO PRESCRIPTIVE IN SAYING IT HAS TO BE COMMERCIAL AT THE GROUND FLOOR, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO HAVE ACT ACTIVATION ACROSS THIS COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, I THINK IS CREATING TOO MUCH OF A, OF A BINARY OF, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S RESIDENTIAL, THAT MEANS IT'S NOT GONNA BE AN ACTIVE STREET FRONT. AND I THINK WE'VE DONE A LOT TO DESCRIBE HOW HAVING YOUR ENTRANCE BE, YOU KNOW, MORE, UM, SHOWCASED CREATES LIKE AN ACTIVE FRONTAGE. LIKE THERE, THERE ARE WAYS TO MAKE, WE DID A LOT OF IT IN THE, UM, LIVE WORKSPACE CONVERSATIONS, UM, ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THE, THE ENTRANCES FOR LIVE WORKSPACES, EVEN IF IT ISN'T REALLY A, A COMMERCIAL SPACE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S A, A, A GRAPHIC DESIGNER WHO IS GENERALLY SPEAKING, NOT OPENING THEIR DOORS TO CUSTOMERS. YOU CAN STILL HAVE THAT FRONTAGE BE, UH, A A COMMUNITY ORIENTED MM-HMM . AND, YOU KNOW, HUMAN SCALE TYPE OF WELCOMING ATMOSPHERE, EVEN IF IT ISN'T PEOPLE COMING IN AND OUT WITH PRODUCTS OR SERVICES. COULD WE DO A, A QUICK CRASH COURSE OR HAVE A QUICK CRASH COURSE FROM STAFF ON WHAT IS ENFORCEABLE AS A GROUND FRONT ACTIVATION DESIGN STANDARD? AND WHAT'S APPLICABLE TO SAY, RESIDENTIAL GROUND FLOOR? 'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE EVEN IN THE LAST FEW PROJECTS WE'VE REVIEWED THAT WAS STILL KIND OF UP FOR DEBATE AND WHAT WAS ENFORCEABLE OR NOT AS AN OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARD. WELL, WE DON'T, WE, UM, OUR STANDARDS AREN'T VERY STRONG TO BE, TO BE, UM, SURE. AND WHERE WE DO FIND OUR MOST, UM, DETAILED STANDARDS ARE IN THOSE FRONTAGE STANDARDS THAT WERE DELIVERED THROUGH THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY. UM, THAT'S WHERE, WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO GET, I THINK, DO A, A BETTER JOB OF THINKING ABOUT HOW DO WE ENSURE THE STREET LEVEL ACTIVITY THAT WE WANT AND ENCOURAGE THE WALKABILITY THAT WE WANT THROUGH THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDING AND HOW, AND ITS RELATION TO SHIP [01:40:01] TO THE STREET OR TO THE SIDEWALK. UM, EVEN IN FAR MORE DETAIL, PERHAPS THE DETAIL THAT WE WANTED TO DO IN THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, BUT WE WEREN'T ABLE TO GET TO IT THROUGH THAT FIRST, UH, EFFORT. SO WE, WE DO HAVE THOSE IN THE, UM, CURRENTLY IN THE DOWNTOWN OVERLAY, AGAIN, IN, IN THOSE STANDARDS. I, AND, AND I THINK THAT IF WE MOVE THOSE OVER TO SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARDS IN THE DOWNTOWN MIXED USE ZONING DISTRICT, THEY'LL BE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE FROM A DESIGN AND A SITE LAYOUT PERSPECTIVE. THE, THE QUESTION THEN ABOUT THE USE, RIGHT, I THINK IS, IS ONE THAT SAYS WE EITHER GO WITH A NON-RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL USE AND THINK ABOUT THAT AS RETAIL OR SERVICE ORIENTED OR, OR RESTAURANT, WHAT HAVE YOU, YOU KNOW, IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE, OR WE SAY THAT IT HAS TO BE GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATING, AND THAT COULD BE, UM, SOME SORT OF WORKSPACE FOR A 10 UNIT APARTMENT BUILDING. AND THEY PUT, YOU KNOW, THEY PUT THEIR WORKSPACE ON THE GROUND FLOOR AND THEY ACTIVATE IT THAT WAY. I THINK WE SORT OF SEE BOTH APPROACHES. IF WE LOOK AT, UH, LEVY APARTMENTS AND THEN ACROSS THE STREET AT FOUR 14 PETALUMA BOULEVARD NORTH, WHERE LEVY APARTMENTS HAS THE GROUND FLOOR RETAIL SPACE, AND IT IS REQUIRED TO BE TENANTED BY A COMMERCIAL USE ACROSS THE STREET. WE HAVE GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATING SPACE, AND IT SERVES AS THE COMMUNITY ROOMS AND THE LEASING OFFICE AS A FOUR 14 PETALUMA BOULEVARD NORTH. SO WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS, IF, IF YOU WANT STAFF, WE COULD MOVE FORWARD WITH CONTINUING TO DEVELOP THE FRONTAGE MAP AND THE SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARDS, WE CAN RECOGNIZE THAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE, THE USES THAT WE WANT ON THAT GROUND FLOOR. AND THEN ON SEPTEMBER 15TH, I THINK WE COULD PRE COULD QUICKLY GET TO A DECISION ABOUT DO WE WANT THAT TO BE COMMERCIAL, UH, RETAIL AND SERVICES, OR DO WE WANT IT TO BE GROUND FLOOR ACTIVATING IN THE WAY THAT A A, YOU KNOW, MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL PROJECT, COMMUNITY SPACE OR CO-WORK SPACE OR A LEASING OFFICE MIGHT BE, I SUGGEST AN OPINION OF KEEPING IT PRETTY RESTRICTIVE TO COMMERCIAL USES OR DESCRIPTIVE USES THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY ACCESSORY TO THE RESIDENTIAL. UM, THE PROJECTS LISTED DON'T, IN MY MIND, REPRESENT A GREAT EXAMPLE OF ACTIVATED STREET FRONTAGE. AND SO UNTIL WE START EITHER USING OUR DESIGN STANDARDS TO GET MORE ACTIVE, I WOULD, I'D ERR ON THE SIDE OF PROGRAMMING THAT SUPPORTS MORE RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL USE COUNCIL, OR LET COMMISSIONER KNOW GO FIRST. I, MAYBE I FEEL A LITTLE DIFFERENT. UM, MOSTLY, UH, I FEEL THAT WAY. I THINK BECAUSE I THINK WHAT MAKES OUR STREETS, WHAT WILL MAKE OUR STREETS MORE ACTIVE IS MORE PEOPLE ON THEM. AND IF NOTHING HAPPENS TO THEM, UM, LIKE RIGHT THERE, LIKE THERE'S A TON OF REALLY VIBRANT NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE A HUNDRED PERCENT RESIDENTIAL OR, UM, OR THAT HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE, THAT HAVE A, A COWORKING SPACE IN THE WINDOW OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK, UM, THAT THINGS HAVE TO BE COMMERCIAL. 'CAUSE I THINK SOME OF THE MORE, HONESTLY, SOME OF THE MORE DEAD AREAS OF OUR DOWNTOWN ARE VACANT COMMERCIAL STOREFRONTS. AND, UM, AND SO I'M LIKE, THAT'S WHAT MY CONCERN IS, IS IF WE'RE, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE, THE EDGE OF, UH, OF LAVIA, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE IT'S, YOU KNOW, REQUIRED TO BE COMMERCIAL AND LIKE, MAN, IT WOULD BE AWESOME IF THERE WAS PEOPLE IN THERE ON COMPUTERS IN A COWORKING SPACE, , I FEEL LIKE IT, OR AT LEAST IT'D BE BETTER. UM, AND SO WE GET A LITTLE RESTRICTIVE AND THEN I JUST WORRY THAT THINGS SIT VACANT AND, UM, ULTIMATELY THE TENANTS OF THE BUILDING ARE THE ONES PAYING FOR THAT VACANT SPACE OR DON'T GET BUILT IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO FIND A RETAIL PARTNER FOR THE GROUND FLOOR. YEAH, I MEAN, A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT I THINK YOU'RE KIND OF REFERRING TO IS LIKE WHAT AMY'S WAS TRYING, TRYING TO DO WITH ITS OPEN WINDOWS, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A CLEARLY A CLOSED BUSINESS, BUT IT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE DRAWING PEOPLE TO THE AREA. SO THEY'RE GONNA BE GOING OUT TO LUNCH, THEY'RE GOING TO BE WALKING AROUND, THEY'RE GOING TO BE PARTICIPATING IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, UM, BOTH BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER WORK SO THAT IT CREATES THAT SORT OF FOOT TRAFFIC AND OTHER [01:45:01] SORT OF JUST VIBRANCY THAT IS OTHERWISE LOST. EVEN IF YOU HAVE STORES OPEN DURING THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, IF EVERYONE ELSE IS, YOU KNOW, NOT, NOT, DOESN'T HAVE A REASON TO GO DOWNTOWN, THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE THERE. I KNOW THAT THAT HAS BEEN A PROBLEM THAT BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, WHERE THEY'RE JUST LIKE, OH YEAH, IT'S A REALLY DEAD TIME OF EITHER YEAR OR SOMETHING'S GOING ON WITH THE WEATHER, SO NO ONE IS HERE. UM, SO I THINK THAT IF YOU HAVE DIFFERENT REASONS FOR PEOPLE TO BE IN A PARTICULAR AREA THAT DOES KIND OF MAKE UP FOR THOSE TIMES WHEN IT OTHERWISE WOULD FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TRYING TO ATTRACT PEOPLE, BUT THEY'RE JUST NOT COMING FOR WHATEVER REASON. MM-HMM . WE CAN MOVE ON, I GUESS. UM, I, I WOULD SAY ZONE IT HOWEVER WE, WE WANNA ZONE IT, BUT THOSE DESIGN STANDARDS NEED TO BE TIGHT BECAUSE SO FAR THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF NON-ACTIVE FRONTAGE AND COMMERCIAL SPACES. THERE'S ALSO BEEN A LOT, I THINK, OF WORKAROUNDS ON NON-ACTIVE USES OF RESIDENTIAL GROUND FLOOR THAT WE'VE SEEN RECENTLY. AND SO I THINK IT, IT COMES DOWN TO DESIGN STANDARDS PROBABLY EITHER WAY AND ENFORCEABILITY THERE, IF MEMORY SERVES, THE DESIGN STANDARDS AS LAID OUT IN THE OVERLAY PROCESS, GOT DOWN INTO GLAZING AND SHELF HEIGHT AND THEY WERE REALLY PARTICULAR. SO I I, I AM ALWAYS IN FAVOR OF LOOKING AT THE SORT OF NEAREST POINT TO WHAT WE WANT. AND IF WHAT WE WANT IS AN IS AN ACTIVATED WALKABLE STREET , THEN LET'S ASK FOR AN ACTIVATED WALKABLE STREET AND MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THAT. AND I THINK THE USES WILL KIND OF BEAR OUT IN WHAT THE MARKET DEMANDS AND WHAT THE BUSINESS OWNERS WANT TO INVEST IN AND, AND LET THAT SORT OF BE OPEN AND CREATIVE. BUT, BUT IF THE STANDARD AND THE, AND THE DESIRE OF THE COMMUNITY IS TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, AN, AN ACTIVATED FRONTAGE, THEN LET'S MANDATE THAT. AND THAT CAN, I THINK, PERHAPS ANSWER TO COMMISSIONER NEWELL'S REQUEST OF LIKE, IF THERE IS AN INTEREST IN RETAIL, THEY CAN DO IT, BUT IF IT, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THE PROJECT, WE'RE STILL GETTING THAT ACTIVATED FRONTAGE, BUT IT'S TECHNICALLY A HUNDRED PERCENT RESIDENTIAL. YEAH, I KNOW WE'VE GOT A LOT OF GROUND TO COVER AFTER THIS TOPIC, SO I DON'T WANT TO GET, GET BOGGED DOWN HERE. I'D LOVE TO SEE THE MAP THAT THAT STAFF IS LOOKING AT DRAFTING. AND I COULD JUST SORT OF SEE THIS SPECTRUM OF, YOU KNOW, HOW WE WANT TO BE RESTRICTIVE DEPENDING ON WHERE, WHERE IT IS. YOU KNOW, WE ALL WANT TO KEEP OUR HISTORIC DOWNTOWN LOOKING COMMERCIAL AND, AND ALL THAT. I THINK SO. WELL, I'LL JUST ADD NOTHING THAT WE ARE PROPOSING OR WORKING ON WOULD, UH, MATERIALLY CHANGE OUR HISTORIC COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. I MEAN, THERE'S A, THIS IS REALLY, YOU START THINKING ABOUT, I MEAN, ONE WAY YOU COULD THINK ABOUT THIS IS THERE'S DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF DOWNTOWN AND, UM, DIFFERENT FEEL AND SHOULD THOSE DIFFERENT SECTIONS AND FIELDS HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS OR WOULD WE BE MORE OPEN TO WOULD RESIDENTIAL THAT'S DESIGNED IN A THOUGHTFUL, APPROACHABLE WAY. UM, YOU KNOW, UM, ALONG HOWARD OR ALONG, UM, LIBERTY, UM, I THINK BASED ON THE CONVERSATION THAT HAS BEEN HAD, I THINK WE CAN COME BACK AND FIGURE OUT MAYBE THERE, THERE'S SORT OF DIFFERENT SHADES OF WHAT'S UM, APPEALING FOR, FOR THIS TOPIC. GREAT. OKAY. MY FINAL THING ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING ONE IS THE INCLUSIONARY ORDINANCE AND, UM, FIVE UNITS FOR AN INCLUSIONARY ORDINANCE FEELS FAIRLY PROHIBITIVE IF WE'RE, YOU KNOW, LIKE I THINK A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE SAY THAT WE WON'T, WE THESE OUT OF TOWN DEVELOPERS, RIGHT? WELL, LIKE THIS IS BUILT FOR THE LOCAL DEVELOPER, RIGHT? THIS IS BUILT FOR A LOCAL PERSON THAT WANTS TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEIR PROPERTY. AND, UM, I DON'T SEE, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT WHAT OUR ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE TO INCLUSION AREAS AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, A 10 UNIT PROJECT AT 1200 SQUARE FEET IS GONNA BE ROUGHLY ABOUT $120,000 THAT WE'RE ADDING TO THE PROJECT. UM, NOW THAT'S GOING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT ULTIMATELY THAT'S GONNA BE PASSED ON TO THESE SMALL PROJECTS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE AFFORDABLE FOR PEOPLE, RIGHT? AND SO, UM, I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT, UM, ADDRESSING, LIKE CHANGING OUR INCLUSIONARY HOUSING ORDINANCE, UM, ALONG WITH THIS. UM, I THINK, UH, IN GENERAL, I THINK THE INCLUSIONARY HOUSING ORDINANCE HAS BEEN A NET NEGATIVE. I THINK IT WAS WELL INTENTIONED. UM, AND, UM, BUT I THINK IT'S FUNCTIONALLY, [01:50:01] UM, PROHIBITING PROJECTS AND, UM, I THINK WE, UH, I APPRECIATE THAT WE'RE DOING A NEXUS STUDY BETWEEN NOW AND, UM, PHASE TWO. UM, I THINK WE COULD ALSO DO A PILOT BETWEEN NOW AND PHASE TWO AND SEE, UM, IF WE SUSPENDED OUR INCLUSIONARY HOUSING ORDINANCE FOR BETWEEN NOW AND PHASE TWO, UM, DO WE SEE MORE PROJECTS GET DONE? DO WE SEE SMALL PROJECTS GET DONE? DO WE SEE PROJECTS LIKE OYSTER COVE COME BACK, RIGHT? LIKE OYSTER COVE WAS MOVING FORWARD AND THERE WAS A, UM, THEY GOT HIT WITH A MILLION DOLLAR CLEANUP AND UM, THAT KILLED THE PROJECT, RIGHT? WELL, THEY HAD AN INCLUSIONARY ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW, PIECE OF THAT IN THERE. AND UM, NOW IT'S, IT'S DEAD AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT COME BACK. UM, AND IN THE MEANTIME, WE'RE NOT COLLECTING ANY PROPERTY TAX FROM THAT. UM, THERE'S NO SALES TAX BEING GENERATED FROM IT. AND SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE US TO THINK ABOUT ALTERNATIVE WAYS TO, UM, FUND AFFORDABLE HOUSING. UM, SAN FRANCISCO JUST REDUCED ITS INCLUSIONARY ORDINANCE FROM LIKE 20% TO 5%. AND IN EXCHANGE IS YOU, UM, PUTTING MORE MONEY INTO ITS, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND. I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT NEW WAYS OF FUNDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT DON'T, UM, PUT ALL OF THE WEIGHT OF NEW AFFORDABLE HOUSING ON A VERY SMALL NUMBER OF UNITS ULTIMATELY. UM, AND I, I THINK THERE'S WAYS THAT WE COULD DO IT. UM, I THINK IT'D BE A GREAT STUDY SESSION FOR THIS BODY. UM, BUT I THINK IN THE INTER, LIKE I THINK WE HAVE A, AN OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA BE DOING PHASE ONE, PHASE TWO, TWO ACTUALLY, UM, RECOMMEND TO THE COUNCIL THAT WE SUSPEND THE INCLUSIONARY ORDINANCE BETWEEN NOW AND PHASE TWO, UM, AND ACTUALLY SEE IF, IF IT HAS BEEN, UM, SYNCING PROJECTS, UM, AND UH, AND WHATNOT. SO THAT'S MY, UH, FINAL COMMENT ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING PLAN. AND THEN I'LL, UM, I'LL JUST HOLD OFF THERE AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT HOUSING FOR A LITTLE BIT LONGER. I THINK A PILOT'S AN INTERESTING IDEA AND GIVES US A, A SANDBOX TO SORT OF SEE SO MUCH OF THIS GENERAL PLAN UPDATE AND ZONING CODE UPDATE IS SORT OF TRYING TO LIKE SHAKE IT UP AND SEE WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE IN ORDER FOR SOME OF THOSE BLOCKS TO BE REMOVED SO THAT WE ARE GETTING, IN PARTICULAR THE DIVERSITY OF HOUSING THAT WE NEED FOR OUR CITY. AND IF WE HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO DO A LITTLE TEST AND SEE, WELL, IF WE TAKE OFF THIS REQUIREMENT, DOES THAT, DOES THAT UNCORK SOMETHING I THINK IS AN, AN INTERESTING OPPORTUNITY. I ALSO LIKE THE IDEA OF DOING SOME KIND OF PILOT, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP SOME, UH, UH, UH, UH, EQUAL PILOT THAT COULD CONTRIBUTE MONEY TOWARDS AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS. SO NOT JUST SORT OF BE ALL GAS, NO BREAKS ON NO INCLUSIONARY HOUSING REQUIREMENT WHATSOEVER FOR A DEVELOPER. THAT PART OF THAT IS CONTRIBUTING TO A FUND, YOU KNOW, BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE THE PROJECTS AREN'T GETTING BUILT , RIGHT? I MEAN, THESE PRO THESE PROJECTS ARE ENTITLED AND THEY'RE SITTING THERE NOT GETTING BUILT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE, AND THAT'S THE, AND THEREFORE, AND, AND IF THEY DID GET BUILT THE, THE UNITS, THE THE MARKET RATE UNITS WOULD BE ELEVATED IN PRICE, RIGHT? SO THEN NOW WE HAVE, WE'RE TRYING TO, LIKE CREEKWOOD IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF, OF, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FIRST TIME HOME BUYER HOUSING, RIGHT? AND THE INCLUSIONARY IN IT, UM, POTENTIALLY LIKE SUNK THE PROJECT. AND IT ALSO, EVEN IF A PROJECT DID GET BUILT, THE UNITS WOULD BE SOLD AT A HIGHER RATE TO FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS. IS THAT LIKE, IS THAT THE, THE EQUITABLE HOUSING SOLUTION THAT WE'RE TRYING FOR HERE? I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK THAT WE WANT SOMETHING THAT'S MORE EQUITABLE THAN THAT. IT FEELS LIKE A STUDY SESSION MIGHT BE HELPFUL TOO. YEAH. I'D BE CURIOUS TO HEAR MORE INFORMATION ON WHAT, WHAT WORKS, WHAT DOESN'T AND OTHER JURISDICTIONS AND WHERE THE FIVE THRESHOLD CAME FROM. YEAH. I, I'D JUST LIKE TO AVOID UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF BUILDING MORE HOUSING THAT'S BEYOND THE REACH OF, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO NEED HOUSING IN OUR COMMUNITY. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT TROUBLES ME. I I'M OPEN TO, YOU KNOW, TOTALLY WORKING WITH YOU ON THIS TO SEE WHAT WORKS. RIGHT. [01:55:02] UH, I'D, I'D LIKE TO LEARN MORE THIS. AND JUST TO ADD TO THAT, WE DO HAVE A STUDY SESSION. I'D REQUEST THAT IN IT, WE TALK ABOUT HOW WE'RE PACING TOWARDS ARENA NUMBERS IN EACH CATEGORY. 'CAUSE I THINK WE'RE LIKE DOING DECENT IN THE, IN THE LIKE LOW, VERY LOW SIDE. SO, SO THAT'S ENCOURAGING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE ARE BUILDING SOME FOR, UM, THAT, THAT, UM, CATEGORY TO HIT OUR ARENA NUMBERS, BUT TO, TO COUNCIL MEMBER BARN'S POINT, THERE'S A VARIETY OF PROJECTS THAT JUST SIMPLY DON'T GET BUILT SO YOU'RE NOT GETTING , THE INCLUSIONARY OR THE, OR THE OTHER UNITS. SO, UM, COOL. LET'S LEAVE THAT THERE. DO WE WANT TO GET THROUGH ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS THAT ARE SORT OF RELATED TO WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT BEFORE WE STEER THE SHIP ELSEWHERE? AS ANDREW'S DOUBLE CHECKING, I'LL JUST DOUBLE DOWN ON THE CONVERSATION. SO IT IS A COMMITMENT WE MADE IN THE HOUSING ELEMENT, UM, TO BE LOOKING, I THINK IT'S AS EVEN JUST THIS 15 MINUTE CONVERSATION SHOWS, UM, TO BUILD HOUSING AS A MULTI-LAYERED, MULTI LEVER PUSHING, UH, POLICY THOUGHT EXERCISE THAT WE JUST, WE WANT TO BE IN. UM, WE WANNA BE REALLY THOUGHTFUL AND SO WE CAN ABSOLUTELY, AND WE HAVE COMMITTED, UH, TO COME BACK, UM, TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. UM, 'CAUSE TO THE CHAIR'S POINT, WE ARE DOING WELL ON THE, ON THE LOWER END OF OUR REGIONAL HOUSING NEED ALLOCATION. UM, BUT AS WE LOOK AT THE PIPELINE THAT'S HERE AND REALLY THROUGHOUT THE STATE, UH, THE STATE SUBSIDIES ARE STARTING TO DRY UP. AND SO THE A HUNDRED PERCENT, UM, PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL, YOU KNOW, ONCE DANKO, ONCE VEA IS FINISHED, UM, AND THEY'RE GETTING CLOSE, UM, UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN THE PIPELINE, UM, TO PICK UP ON THE LOW SIDE, BUT I TOTALLY SEE THE POINT ABOUT THE SUBSID, UM, AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEED, RESTRICTED SUBSIDIZING MARKET RATE. UM, SO IT DOES LEND FOR A, UM, REALLY FOCUSED CONVERSATION. UM, WE DO HAVE SOME GOOD NEWS, UM, ON OYSTER COVE AND CREEKWOOD. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE, WE'LL BE, WE'RE EXCITED TO, TO SHARE I THINK IN THE NEXT COMING WEEKS, UM, A POTENTIAL TO REVIVE BOTH OF THOSE AND A FEW MORE OTHER PROJECTS. WELL, JUST TO ADD ON A LITTLE BIT OF LIKE, WHERE MY HEAD GOES ON THIS IS, I FEEL LIKE WHERE I'D LIKE TO SEE US PULLING MONEY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS, UM, IF WE'RE GONNA BUILD MARKET RATE EARMARK THE INCREMENTAL PROPERTY TAX FROM MARKET RATE, UH, FOR A PERIOD OF YEARS TO, SO THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY PULLING IT FROM THE OVERALL CITY'S TAX BASE TO FUND IT VERSUS DRIVING UP THE PRICE ON A FEW, UM, NEW HOME BUYERS, RIGHT? SO LIKE, UM, YOU, IF YOU WERE TO EARMARK 50% OF THE PROPERTY TAX FROM, YOU KNOW, OYSTER COVE, RIGHT? THE INCREMENTAL PROPERTY TAX FROM OYSTER COVE FOR A PERIOD OF 10 YEARS, UM, WE WOULD STILL BE FUNDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING. IT'S JUST NOT BEING, IT'S NOT DRIVING UP THEIR PRICES OR THE, THE HOUSING, THE SALES PRICE. IT'S PULLING THE MONEY OUT OF THE SALES TAX, INCREMENTAL SALES TAX, AND WE'RE SEEING THINGS GET BUILT AT SOLD AT LOWER PRICES. SO THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE US LOOKING AT AND WHY I'M SORT OF DRIVING FOR THINGS LIKE THIS. THANKS. THANKS. UM, JUST FLIPPING THROUGH, IF WE'RE SORT OF STICKING ON THE HOUSING THEME, DO WE, DO WE HAVE AN ADEQUATE, UM, GUIDANCE AROUND THE SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW THRESHOLD? OR SHOULD WE GET INTO I I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD. IT, UH, I'M SORT OF SEEING WE'VE GOT A A A LOT OF CONVERSATION AROUND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS YEAH. THAT WE NEED TO HAVE. BUT IF WE STAY ON THE, UH, ON THE USE SIDE OF THINGS, THERE'S, THERE'S TWO QUESTIONS RELATED TO, AT, AT PRESENT WE REQUIRE THAT IF YOU HAVE A PROJECT, AND LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE, YOU'VE GOT A PROJECT AND IT HAS TWO USES, ONE USE IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT, AND ONE USE REQUIRES A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THEN THE ENTIRE PROJECT IS SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT BECAUSE IT TAKES ON THE, REQUIRE THE HIGHEST PERMIT REQUIREMENT. WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS REWRITE THAT SECTION TO ACCEPT, UM, MIXED USE PROJECTS THAT HAVE A HOUSING COMPONENT. SO LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE, YOU HAD A MIXED USE PROJECT AND IT, IT PROPOSES A COMMERCIAL USE ALONG WITH A HOUSING USE. THE COMMERCIAL USE WOULD REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT UNDER THE CURRENT REGULATIONS, THE ENTIRE PROJECT WOULD REQUIRE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS REWRITE THAT TO SAY THAT IF THERE [02:00:01] IS A HOUSING COMPONENT TO A MIXED USE PROJECT, THEN THOSE, THOSE PERMIT REQUIREMENTS STANDALONE, UM, WHAT WE WOULD DO THEN IS WHEN THAT MIXED USE PROJECT COMES FORWARD, WE WOULD REVIEW THE CUP FOR THE APPLICABILITY OF THE CUP TO THAT SPECIFIC USE. WE WOULDN'T SUBJECT THE HOUSING USE TO THE CUP REVIEW IN, IN PRACTICE. HOW DOES THAT SAVE TIME AND MONEY AND EFFORT? WELL, I DON'T THINK IT, IT PROBABLY DOESN'T SAY, WELL, IT, YOU KNOW, AS, AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH HAVING ALL OF OUR HOUSING BY, RIGHT, AT LEAST IN RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS AND WE REMOVE THE PROHIBITIONS ON RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITIES IN, IN MIXED USE DISTRICTS, I, I I BELIEVE WE'RE TO THE POINT WHERE ALL OF OUR HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES ARE BY, RIGHT? AND IF WE'RE CONTINUING TO LOWER OUR THRESHOLDS FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, AT LEAST CERTAINLY FOR THE COMMERCIAL USES, RIGHT? I MEAN, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK, I CAN'T IMAGINE AN OPPOR A POINT WHERE WE WOULD HAVE LIKE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL USE AS PART OF A MIXED USE PROJECT. SO WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT THOSE MIXED USE DISTRICTS WHERE THERE ARE THOSE, UM, THE LIGHTER DELIGHT NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMERCIAL SERVING, UM, OR NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY SERVING COMMERCIAL USES. AND SOME OF THOSE COULD CARRY BASED UPON SIZE, COULD CARRY A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUIREMENT. SO AS I'VE TALKED THROUGH THAT, I'M THINKING LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S SAY THAT ON AT CURRENTLY THAT YOU HAD A MIXED USE PROJECT THAT'S PROPOSING 30,000 SQUARE FEET OF RETAIL AND THEN MAYBE, MAYBE TWO, TWO FLOORS OR TWO STORIES OF, OF RETAIL TOTALING 30,000 SQUARE FEET THAT WOULD CARRY A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUIREMENT AND THEN THE THREE STORIES OF HOUSING ON TOP OF IT. AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT AT CURRENT, THE THREE STORIES OF HOUSING ARE SUBJECT TO A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. RIGHT. BUT LIKE WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS? WELL, WE HAVE TO REVIEW IT THE, THE SAME, I MEAN IT'S, IT'S JUST PUTTING THE RISK IN THERE I THINK IS, IS WHAT IT WOULD BE DOING AND WE WOULD BE ALLEVIATING THE RISK YEAH. BY SAYING THAT, THAT A HOUSING COMPONENT OF A MIXED USE PROJECT IS NOT SUBJECT. YEAH, I MEAN I THINK TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE ARE USES THAT ARE BY RIGHT, SORT OF CLEAVING THOSE OFF AND SAYING, WE KNOW THOSE ARE FINE MM-HMM . AND THEN WE'LL DEAL WITH YOU ON THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT ON THE THINGS THAT REQUIRE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS IS FINE BY ME AND DIAL DOWN HOW MANY INSTANCES TRIGGER THOSE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS WILL EVEN FURTHER REMOVE THAT, THAT UNCERTAINTY. BECAUSE I THINK WHAT I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK OF IS LIKE, WELL IF YOUR PROJECT IS MARRYING A CONDITIONAL USE A PERMIT USE WITH RESIDENTIAL, THEN LIKE GETTING THE PASS ON THE RESIDENTIAL DOESN'T DO A WHOLE LOT TO MOVE IT FORWARD IF YOU'RE STILL WAITING AROUND RIGHT. FOR THE CP FOR THE OTHER PART. SO, SO AGAIN, LIKE DIALING DOWN THE INSTANCES WHERE WE REQUIRE CS, I THINK WILL GO MUCH FURTHER THAN JUST SAYING THAT THE BUY RIDE RESIDENTIAL IS CLEARED MM-HMM . SURE. IS THAT, MAYBE TAKING A STEP BACK, CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS ARE TRIGGERED BY OBVIOUSLY NON-CONFORMING USES OR PROPOSED NON-CONFORMING USES BY NON, UM, BY NOT APPLYING THE, OR COMPLYING WITH THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS IS, WELL, WHAT ARE THE OTHER INSTANCES THAT TRIGGER CCPS? I GUESS AGAIN, SORRY. I THINK WHEN WE'RE, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT INDUSTRIAL USES, WE'RE TYPICALLY LOOKING AT NOISE, ODOR, DUST, THOSE FACTORS. UH, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, COMMERCIAL RETAIL AND SERVICES, UH, THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT TRAFFIC, SOMETIMES NOISE AND DISRUPTION, YOU KNOW, PROXIMATE TO RESIDENTIAL USES. UM, AND THE SIZE EXAMPLE I THINK IS PROBABLY THE MOST COMMON THAT IT'S, THAT IT'S LIKE GENERALLY AN OKAY USE, BUT THE, THE SIZE AND SCOPE OR ENVELOPE THAT IS BEING PROPOSED DOESN'T FIT WITH THE CURRENT, UM, REGULATION. YEAH. ONE EXAMPLE THAT COMES UP QUITE A BIT WITH BROKERS, UM, CHURCHES THAT WANT TO GO INTO LIKE A RETAIL, UM, EMPTY BANK BUILDING OR A BUSINESS PARK MM-HMM . UM, AND SO WHEN WE LAST OPENED UP THE ZONING CODE IN OH 8, 0 9, THERE WAS A ESSENTIALLY SHOULD WE, WHICH THING SHOULD WE TURN ON AND OFF? WHAT'S PERMITTED? WHAT SHOULD BE A C? UM, UM, AND IT WOULD NEED TO GO THROUGH THAT ADDITIONAL PROCESS. IN 2026, [02:05:01] WHAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING IS THE NEED FOR RETAIL, WHETHER IT'S RETAIL 2.0, WHETHER IT'S, UM, THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF INDUSTRIES THAT ARE HERE DON'T OR WANNA BE HERE, DON'T QUITE FIT INTO THE MOLD OF THE ZONING CODE IN OH EIGHT. UM, AND SO RIGHT NOW WHAT WE REALLY DO IS WE WRESTLE WITH THEM CASE BY CASE. UM, AND AT THIS POINT I THINK WE HAVE A GOOD, UM, SET OF EXAMPLES ON, UH, ONES THAT WE'RE OFFERING UP, ONES THAT WE'VE, YOU KNOW, WORKED WITH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, UM, THAT WE MAY WANT TO CONSIDER AS A COMMUNITY TO, YOU KNOW, REMOVE THAT CONDITION, RIGHT? REMOVE THAT BARRIER. UM, SOME OF THEM WILL ALWAYS WANT TO KEEP THEM AROUND. UM, BUT THAT'S THE EXERCISE THAT WE'LL HAVE TO GO THROUGH AS A, UM, COMMISSION. UM, WHICH TYPES OF USES ARE WE COMFORTABLE WITH PERMITTING VERSUS, UM, WHICH WE WANT TO KEEP AS CONDITIONAL? IS THAT THE EXERCISE FOR TODAY? OR DO WE HAVE A SPECIFIC LIKE SHORT LIST OF AREAS THAT WE COULD STREAMLINE OR LIKE LOW HANGING FRUIT, LIKE THINGS THAT DON'T GENERATE NOISE OR DON'T KIND OF NON LESS SENSITIVE, I GUESS DEVELOPMENT REQUESTS? I, I WOULD START WITH OUR, OUR MAKER. I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY THE ONE THAT'S THE BIG GAP THAT WE HAVE. IT'S A, ESSENTIALLY IT'S A BRAND NEW, IT IS A BRAND NEW LAND USE THAT, UM, IT, IT JUST REQUIRES A CONVERSATION. I THINK WE HAVE A GOOD STARTING POINT. IT SORT OF BLENDS OUR BUSINESS PARK AND INDUSTRIAL. UM, BUT WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT'S GLARING, UM, COME NEW GENERAL PLAN, UM, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE START THERE. OKAY. SO DEFINING THE MAKER MICRO. YEAH. RIGHT? MM-HMM . DID WE COME TO A POINT ON THE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE SPLITTING THE CUP FROM THE PERMITTED BY RIGHT HOUSING? NO, NOT THE HOUSING VERSUS, UM, LIKE ARE DO YOU, DO YOU WANNA WEIGH IN? GO FOR IT. NO, I'M JUST CONFIRMING THAT THAT WE'RE, SO YOU NO, NOT YET. WE HAVE WRAP THAT ONE UP BEFORE WE, WE HAVEN'T. STRAW POLL I THINK REACHED A CONSENSUS. OKAY. UM, I THINK THE POINT THAT I WAS MAKING WAS YEP. IF YOU WANT TO SEPARATE THEM, THAT WOULD SOUND GOOD TO ME AND WE CAN DO A STRAW POLL TO SEE IF IT SOUNDS GOOD TO OTHERS. . UM, AND THEN THE SORT OF FOOTNOTE BEING, AND PLEASE, UH, BE MORE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT WHERE C P'S COME INTO PLAY IN GENERAL. SO, UM, THOUGHTS ON THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT BEING BY RIGHT. AND THEN THE COP BEING HANDLED INDIVIDUALLY. THUMBS UP. MM-HMM . OKAY. COOL. YEAH. GREAT. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE GREAT. THANK YOU. OKAY, COOL. UM, AND THEN WE CAN GET INTO, YEAH. MAKE OR MICRO DEFINITIONS. YEAH. BEFORE WE HIT THAT WAY, I WANTED TO, TO REVISIT THE PARCEL SPLIT QUESTION. YES. OR WHEN WE HAVE A SPLIT ZONE PARCEL AND I CAN BRING THAT BACK UP IF, IF THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. UH, WE CAN GET INTO PARCEL SPLIT NOW AS IT'S KIND OF A COUSIN TO A SPLIT , CUP AND BUYRIGHT SEEMS LIKE A, A NATURAL PAIRING. THOUGHTS ON THE PAGE? UH, THREE OF THE PRINTOUTS. IT'S SLIDE NINE WHEN ONE PARCEL SITS IN TWO ZONES, RIGHT? RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING MM-HMM . CORRECT. THANK YOU. UM, A ZONE BOUNDARY FOLLOWS THE GENERAL PLAN, NOT A PROPERTY LINE. SO SOME PARCELS SIT IN TWO ZONES. SO I HAVE A CLARIFYING QUESTION ON THIS. SURE. SO, SO WITH THAT EXAMPLE, AND, AND SLIDE NINE ONE COULD BUILD 26 UNITS ON ONE HALF? NO, THE TOTAL, SO THE TOTAL WOULD BE 26 UNITS. THAT'S WHAT THE AGGREGATE DENSITY WOULD BE. OKAY. THE, THE, WHAT WE RUN INTO IS, IS, AND WHERE IT'S UNCLEAR RIGHT NOW IS DO YOU HAVE TO ADHERE TO THE DENSITY REQUIREMENT? DOES IT HAVE TO BE FULFILLED ON THAT PORTION THAT IS ZONED? RIGHT. RIGHT. BECAUSE I THINK THE UNDERLYING PRESUMPTION IS THAT YOU'RE SPLIT ZONED BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE SOME SORT OF DEVELOPMENT GOAL THROUGH THAT SPLIT ZONING. UM, ALTHOUGH, ALTHOUGH TO BE FAIR, I THINK THAT PROBABLY COMES INTO PLAY ON LARGER PARCELS RATHER THAN SMALLER PARCELS. BUT, UM, IT, IT'S, IT'S A QUESTION THAT THE, THE ORDINANCE IS UNCLEAR ABOUT. AND IT DOES PRESENT [02:10:01] A CHALLENGE. YOU KNOW, DEVELOPER, UH, DEVELOPERS ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO THAT QUESTION. AND WHAT DOES THE CITY WANT? DO THEY WANT THEM TO ADHERE STRICTLY TO THE ZONING REQUIREMENTS OR DO THEY WANT, YOU KNOW, THE 26 UNITS, BUT, BUT COULD THAT BE SPREAD ACROSS THE ENTIRETY OF THE PARCEL? SO I THINK THAT WOULD GET TO THE FLEXIBILITY, RIGHT? WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE GOAL OF HAVING FLEXIBILITY IN THE GENERAL PLAN AND IN THE ZONING CODE. AND SO THIS WOULD CERTAINLY, UM, BE ABLE TO GIVE DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES, FLEXIBILITY, UM, IN TRYING TO ACHIEVE THE, THE GOALS OF THE GENERAL PLAN THROUGH THE ORDINANCE. DID YOU WANNA GO COMMISSIONER BERGER? DO YOU WANNA, UH, YEAH. MM-HMM . , YES. UM, YEAH. MY, MY QUESTION IS LIKE, WITH, WITH THIS EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE A SPLIT OF THE MEDIUM DENSITY ZONE ALLOWING 11 UNITS AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER ZONE ALLOWING 15 UNITS. UM, IS THAT LIKE A CAP ON THE DENSITY OR IS IT A MINIMUM? WELL, IN THIS, SORRY, IN THIS CASE, UH, THOSE TWO FIGURES DO REFLECT THE MAXIMUM DENSITY ALLOWED BASED UPON PARCEL SIZE. OKAY. AND SO OPTION B IN THIS CASE, WHERE DENSITY WOULD MOVE, WOULD ALLOW FOR, UH, A REDUCTION IN UNITS IN THE MEDIUM DENSITY AND AN INCREASE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER, OR VICE VERSA, OR NO, NO, IT WOULDN'T CHANGE THE, THE BASE DENSITY OF, YOU KNOW, IN THE CASE OF MEDIUM DENSITY, THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE DENSITY IS 22 UNITS. IN THE CASE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER, IT'S 30 UNITS. MM-HMM . WHEN WE, WHEN WE TAKE 50% OF THAT, BECAUSE WE'RE DEALING WITH A HALF ACRE, THAT'S WHERE WE GET THE 11 AND 15. SO IT DOESN'T REALLY ALLOW THEM TO NEGOTIATE THE NUMBER OF UNITS REQUIRED OR ALLOWED. IT JUST, IT JUST ALLOWS US TO THINK ABOUT HOW IT'S ARRANGED ON THE SITE AS A WHOLE. I GUESS I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE, UH, HOW B WOULD BE PERMISSIBLE AT ALL. I SAY THAT HOW, WHAT, UH, HOW OPTION B ALLOWING THE DENSITY TO MOVE WOULD BE PERMISSIBLE AT ALL. LIKE, HOW WOULD B PLAY OUT? LIKE HOW, HOW, HOW COULD YOU ACTUALLY BUILD IN THAT WAY? SO WE'RE LOOKING AT SLIDE NINE. YES. UM, NUM LETTER A IS JUST HOW IT'S PRESENTED. 11 ON THE LEFT, 15 ON THE RIGHT. RIGHT. THAT SEEMS STRAIGHTFORWARD TO ME. . SO B WOULD BE, HEY, I HAVE A PROJECT. MAYBE I WANT TO, UM, ESSENTIALLY YOU CAN PLAY WITH THESE NUMBERS. 26. LET'S SAY WE WANT TO DO, THAT'S 26, WHAT DO I DO? 13. 13 ON THE FRONTAGE. SO DO AN EVEN SPLIT 13. 13, 13. UM, AS IT STANDS, IT'S UNCLEAR IF IN THESE VERY, VERY RARE CASES WHERE WE DO, WE DON'T HAVE MANY OF THESE MM-HMM . UM, WHERE WE DO HAVE MULTI ZONED, UM, PARCELS, YOU, YOU DON'T GET THAT FLUIDITY FLUIDITY. SO IF YOU WANTED TO DO JUST AN EVEN, UM, 13 AND 13, IT'S UNCLEAR, I BELIEVE THAT WE COULD FACILITATE SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND SO THE QUESTION BEFORE THE COMMISSION IS, DO WE WANNA PROVIDE THAT FLEXIBILITY FOR DEVELOPER TO COME IN, UM, AND HAVE THE ABILITY TO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT MAKES IT POSSIBLE, UM, FEASIBLE, UM, FROM A DESIGN PERSPECTIVE. UM, I, I'M GUESSING JUST THE DESCRIPTION OF B MAKES IT SOUND LIKE YOU CAN EXCEED THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE DENSITY IN, IN ONE OF THOSE SECTIONS. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ENVISAGING HERE? OH, NO, NO. NOT AT ALL. NOT AT ALL. YOU HAVE TO, WELL, IT KIND OF DOES THOUGH, RIGHT? 'CAUSE IN THIS SITUATION IT WOULD MEAN THAT 13 WOULD THEN BE APPLICABLE. THAT'S TRUE. YEAH. WHICH WOULD BE ABOVE. SO THE OTHER QUESTION HERE IS BE DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY OF THESE INSTANCES ACTUALLY EXIST? BECAUSE IF IT'S POTENTIALLY SMALL ENOUGH MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, YOU COULD JUST HAVE, AND ASSUMING THAT YOU JUST ALLOW FOR THE PARCEL TO TAKE WHATEVER THE LEAST RESTRICTED VERSION OF THAT ZONE IS, IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR FLEXIBILITY, RIGHT? BUT I DON'T WANNA BAKE IN AN UNDERSHOOT. SURE. LIKE THE, I, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE SET OUT THE DENSITIES WITH LIKE, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE FULFILLED. SO TO SAY, JUST TAKE THE LOWER NUMBER THEN SORT OF BETRAYS THAT OPPORTUNITY. I'M CURIOUS IF, AND TELL ME STRAIGHT IF IT'S A NO, BUT IS IT TOO LATE TO JUST MOVE OUR LINE SO THAT WE ABIDE BY PARCELS INSTEAD OF HAVING ALL THESE, OR NOT ALL THESE A A FEW SPLIT PARCELS FROM, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IT IS TOO LATE. IT'S TOO LATE , OR, OR MAYBE LIKE IN [02:15:01] THAT SAME VEIN, MAYBE THERE'S A MINIMUM LOT SIZE OR LIKE FOR A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AND IT'S A FIVE ACRE PARCEL OR SOMETHING, THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN WE MAY WANNA CONTROL MORE OF THE DENSITY TO ONE SIDE OR ANOTHER, OR SOMETHING. I DON'T KNOW IF, IF IT'S PRACTICAL TO CONSIDER A DIFFERENT SIZE LOT IN THOSE INSTANCES. IS I, I THINK HAVING AN EXAMPLE OR THE EXAMPLES OF WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT MIGHT HELP US HAVE A BETTER VERSION OF THIS DISCUSSION SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THIS IMPACTS. BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE SOLUTION POTENTIALLY CHANGES DEPENDING ON WHAT THOSE IMPACTS ARE. TO THAT END, WE DID RECEIVE A PUBLIC COMMENT THAT PROVIDES ONE OF THESE EXAMPLES. , IF WE WANT TO USE RIVER PARK AS A, AS A USE CASE TO TALK THROUGH THIS, UM, NOW OR AT A FURTHER SESSION. WELL, IF IT WOULD BE HELPFUL, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US TO, TO HAVE THIS RESOLVED. OKAY. THIS EVENING. SO, OKAY. I ALSO FEEL LIKE DENSITY, YOU'RE MUTED. SORRY. UH, DENSITY RARELY IS A BAD THING. I THINK IN THE DIRECTION WE'RE HEADED WITH THE CODES. AND SO I, I WOULD WONDER IF WHAT THE HARM IS IN AIRING ON A DENSER OR ALLOWING A DENSER KIND OF USE OR APPLYING, UM, THE OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE A DENSER, UM, YEAH. DENSER DEVELOPMENT TO ONE SIDE OR ANOTHER. LIKE, I'M INCLINED TO AGREE THAT ONE OF THE SIMPLE ROUTES WE COULD TAKE IS IF YOU ARE ON A SPLIT PARCEL, THE HIGHER DENSITY PREVAILS. COULD, COULD YOU? SO THAT'S NOT, UM, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE, UM, PROPOSING. SO IT'S, IT'S BASICALLY YOU, YOU GET 26 UNITS TO PLAY WITH. ARE YOU INTERESTED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO MOVE IT THROUGHOUT THE PARCEL? IT'S, WE'RE NOT, UH, THERE, THERE WOULD BE NO MECHANISM TO ADD ADDITIONAL DENSITY. SO ON THE LEFT HAND OF YOUR SCREEN, IT'S 11, IT'S THE 2222 UNITS AN ACRE. THE ONLY REASON WHY, THE EXAMPLE I GAVE OF 13, 13 IS YOU'RE TAKING THE TWO UNITS OVER FROM THE RIGHT SIDE SO YOU'RE NOT NETTING ANYTHING MORE. THIS IS JUST A POLICY QUESTION OF DO YOU JUST WANT TO HAVE THE LINE AND NOTHING SHOULD PASS, UM, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? OR DO WE WANT TO OPEN FLEXIBILITY FOR THOSE PARCELS, UM, TO MAKE A MORE THOUGHTFUL DESIGN? UM, AND I THINK I, SO LONG AS WE HAVE A GENERAL MAJORITY SENSE, UH, FROM THE COMMISSION THAT IT'S THE LATTER, WE CAN TAKE THIS BACK AND LOOK AT SOME EXAMPLES AND, UM, PRESENT SOME OPTIONS. UH, I'LL COMMISSIONER . YEAH. THANK YOU. YEAH. UM, ALRIGHT. WITH, WITH THIS, I'M SEEING LIKE THE, THE, THE FLEX, THE OPTION WITH THE FLEXIBILITY TO MOVE UNITS FROM, UH, THE DENSER DESIGNATION TO THE LESS DENSE DESIGNATION DOES RESULT IN AN INCREASING, IN THE DENSITY IN THE LESS DENSE DESIGNATION, A AS AS DESCRIBED. UM, I DON'T, I GUESS, UM, FROM WHAT COMMISSIONER MOSES HAS SAID, UM, IT FEELS LIKE THE MORE REASONABLE OPTION HERE IS TO ALLOW FOR THE MORE, FOR THE LESS DENSE, UM, DESIGNATION DESIGNATED AREA TO BECOME MORE DENSE WITHOUT ALLOWING FOR THE REDUCTION IN DENSITY IN THE MORE DENSE SECTION. SO IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD BE RATHER THAN REQUIRING 26 UNITS ACROSS THE ENTIRE PARCEL, UH, BRING ALLOWING THE MEDIUM DENSITY TO BE AN, THE MEDIUM DENSITY SECTION TO BE ANYWHERE BETWEEN 11 AND 15 UNITS. UM, AS OPPOSED TO ALLOWING FOR THE REDUCTION IN, UH, SORRY, THE INCREASE OF DENSITY, REDUCING THE DENSITY OF AN AREA THAT'S INTENDED TO BE HIGHER DENSITY. WELL, THAT, THAT I DON'T THINK WOULD WORK BECAUSE WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET OVER 11 UNITS ON THE MEDIUM DENSITY TO, TO ADD, TO ADD POTENTIALLY FOUR MORE UNITS BECAUSE THAT WOULD THEN END UP WITH 30 UNITS. THEN I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW B WORKS AT ALL. YEAH. WELL, I GUESS, I GUESS THINK ABOUT IT THIS WAY. LET'S, LET'S SAY THAT, THAT YOU, YOU HAVE THIS ONE ACRE PARCEL, YOU'RE ALLOWED 26 UNITS BETWEEN THE TWO LAND USE DESIGNATIONS. SO, AND YOU HAVE ONE BUILDING AND YOU HAVE A RELATIVELY ARBITRARY LINE BECAUSE WE CAN'T, THE LINE IS NOT SPECIFIC, RIGHT? SO IT'S, IT'S AN [02:20:01] ESTIMATE OF WHERE THAT LAND USE DESIGNATION AND ZONING SPLIT WOULD LIE. SO YOU HAVE ONE BUILDING, YOU HAVE 26 UNITS. IF YOU, IF YOU MAINTAIN THE STRICT SEPARATION, THEN AT SOMEPLACE MIDPOINT ON THAT BUILDING, YOU WOULD HAVE TO SHIFT UNIT SIZE TO A SMALLER UNIT SIZE TO ACHIEVE 15 UNITS ON 50% OF THE BUILDING. SO, SO YOU AND THE MAXIMUM, SO YOU'RE ALLY, SORRY, YOU ARE SPECIFICALLY ENVISAGING A SINGLE BUILDING THAT'S DIVIDED LIKE INTO APARTMENTS OR WHATEVER. RIGHT. AS OPPOSED, AS OPPOSED TO STANDALONE UNITS THAT COULD BE DISTRIBUTED ACROSS THE PARCEL. OKAY. THIS IS MAKING MORE SENSE TO ME. THANK YOU. YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH, I MEAN IT IS INTERESTING, BUT YOU COULD SEE ALMOST THE SAME THING THOUGH. IF IT WAS, LET'S, LET'S, YOU KNOW, SINCE WE'RE SORT OF IN, IN CONCEPT SPACE HERE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE TO ARRANGE A SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED PROJECT AND YOU WOULD HAVE A MORE DENSE 15 UNITS ON HALF OF THE PROJECT AND LESS DENSITY ON THE OTHER HALF, BUT YET THE, THE, TO SOME DEGREE THE REASON FOR HAVING TO DO THAT IS THE NATURE OF THIS NON-SPECIFIC LINE. YEAH. THAT, THAT DOES SEEM ARBITRARY. THANK YOU. YEAH. UH, I'M LEANING TOWARDS OPTION B. IT THIS LIKE, FOR, FOR THE SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S, UH, A SINGLE BUILDING MM-HMM . AND, AND MAYBE THAT SPECIFIC, UM, CLARIFICATION WOULD, WOULD BE USEFUL IN THIS CASE. YEAH, IT'S, YEAH, I THINK WE'VE, WE'VE TENDED TOWARDS MORE FLEXIBLE IS BETTER. UM, AND GIVEN THAT THIS IS A, WE THINK RELATIVELY RARE OCCURRENCE ACROSS THE MAP, UM, THEN I THINK LEAVING THAT FLEXIBILITY IS PROBABLY WISE AGAIN, WITH MAYBE A STIPULATION ON A LOT SIZE MINIMUM OR SOMETHING. ONLY BECAUSE IT DOES MAYBE CHANGE WHEN IT IS SINGLE, SINGLE DWELLINGS OR DETACHED UNITS. OKAY. AND THEN ALSO, RIGHT, YEAH. THE ATTACHED VERSUS DETACHED. SO WE CAN COME BACK WITH SOME OPTIONS THERE. OKAY. AND YEAH, JUST BEARING IN MIND THAT WE AREN'T, UH, UNINTENTIONALLY REDUCING THE DENSITY RIGHT. AND, AND MISSING THAT OPPORTUNITY WHEN IT'S BEEN DETERMINED TO BE A GOOD SPOT FOR A HIGHER DENSITY. MM-HMM. SURE. GREAT. THANK YOU. OKAY. CAN WE JUST WORKSHOP THIS A LITTLE BIT ON, UH, SO ON THE RIVER PARK YEAH. COMMENT LETTER. CAN WE JUST ADDRESS THOSE TWO, LIKE HOW THIS MIGHT APPLY TO THAT, THE, THE TWO CONCERNS THAT WERE EXPRESSED IN THAT COMMENT? I GUESS, LET'S SEE. IT FEELS LIKE THE FIRST ONE'S ADDRESSED BECAUSE IF WE'RE GIVING THE FLEXIBILITY ON THE TWO, WE'RE, MAYBE I'M WRONG THOUGH, BUT I'M, I'M, UH, WHAT I DON'T KNOW WELL ENOUGH ABOUT THE RIVER PARK, UH, GEOGRAPHY IS WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SITE THAT SPANS, LIKE IT'S, IS THE ISSUE THAT THE SITE ENCOMPASSES A VARIETY OF PARCELS THAT HAVE SEPARATE ZONING AND THEREFORE YOU'RE TRYING TO LIKE, UNIFY YOUR SITE? THAT IS CAN WE JUST, CAN WE HAVE SIERRA COME UP AND AND TALK CHAIR? I, I'M OPEN TO IT. YES. YES. OKAY. GO FOR IT. THANKS. UH, THANK, THANK YOU. HI EVERYBODY. UM, LEMME TRY TO ANSWER SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS AND THEN ASK ME MORE. SO, UM, THE SITE IS TWO PARCELS. UM, THE LAND USE THAT WAS, THAT WAS APPROVED, THE DAF DRAFT LAND USE HAS TWO DIFFERENT LAND USE DESIGNATIONS ON IT. UM, THE LAST MAP THAT I SAW THERE ACTUALLY FOLLOWED OUR VERY EARLY STAGE POTENTIAL STREET GRID. AND SO HAS THE DENSER UNITS KIND OF ON THE INTERIOR OF THOSE. UM, AND THEN THE STEP DOWN ON THE EDGES, YOU MIGHT REMEMBER RIVERFRONT SINGLE FAMILY HOMES OR TO THE SOUTH OF US, SO BLENDING, ET CETERA. UM, I THINK OUR SPECIFIC CONCERN IS GIVEN HOW, UM, THIS LAND IS COMPLETELY VACANT, RIGHT? AND THIS WHOLE AREA COFFEE FIELD EXTENSION IS GONNA COME THROUGH, THERE'S SO MUCH THAT IS STILL YET TO BE FIGURED OUT THAT, UM, IF ZONING FOLLOWS WHAT I SEE IN THE LAND USE, IT'S HIGHLY, IT'S OVERLY PRESCRIPTIVE OF SOMETHING THAT IS YET TO BE THOUGHT OUT. AND SO I JUST THINK IT, IT FEELS PROHIBITIVE OF, YOU KNOW, US GETTING TOGETHER AND COMING UP WITH WHEN THE TIME COMES, WHAT IS THE BEST, UM, SITE MAP FOR THE, FOR THE SITE, UM, IS OUR SPECIFIC CONCERN. AND I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING, JUST TO SHARE IN THIS CONVERSATION, THAT SHOULD A PARCEL HAVE MULTIPLE ZONES ON IT, AND THEN IT IS, UM, ACTUALLY OBLIGED TO THEN STAY AT THE DENSER AS RATHER THAN REDISTRIBUTION, THEN THAT WOULD HAVE POTENTIAL FEASIBILITY IMPACTS ON THE PROJECT AT LEAST SPECIFIC TO OURS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE HIGHER DENSITY, IF WE HAD TO DO THE WHOLE [02:25:01] SITE IN THAT, THAT, THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY PROBLEMATIC FROM A FEASIBILITY STANDPOINT, RIGHT? SO NOW WE'RE NOT, BUT IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT YOU'VE GOT TWO PARCELS THAT HAVE TWO DIFFERENT ZONING DESIGNATIONS. NO, ACTUALLY THE, THE, THE TWO PARCELS ON ONE OF THE PARCELS, THERE'S TWO LAND USE DESIGNATIONS CURRENTLY. AH, AND THEN I THINK ACTUALLY ONE OF THE PARCELS IS ENTIRELY ONE. SO IT'S JUST ONE OF OUR TWO PARCELS THAT'S AT, AT ISSUE HERE. OKAY. . SO DOES THAT MEAN A VISUAL MIGHT HELP YOU, ANDREW? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANNA PUT THAT ON THE SCREEN. FEELS LIKE WE MIGHT BE GETTING CONFUSED BETWEEN MORE DENSE AND FLEXIBILITY AND I THINK ULTIMATELY WE'RE SUPPORTING FLEXIBILITY WITH THE EXISTING ZONING DENSITY. IS THAT I THINK CORRECT. THAT'S WHAT I SUPPORT. YEAH. YES. THAT'S WHERE I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING. SO THAT WOULD MEAN WE WOULDN'T BE APPLYING A HIGHER DENSITY OR THE HIGHER OF THE TWO DENSITIES TO BOTH USES, BUT RATHER OFFERING THE FLEXIBILITY TO DISTRIBUTE HOW YOU SEE FIT BETWEEN THE TWO. YEAH, THAT WOULD WORK FOR OUR PARCEL. UM, OURS IS A LITTLE BIT, UM, I'LL JUST COMMENT LIKE IT'S KIND OF IN NO MAN'S LAND CURRENTLY, AND SO THERE'S A LOT TO BE CREATED. I CAN IMAGINE THAT, I DON'T KNOW OTHER PARCELS THAT ARE IN ALREADY DEVELOPED AREAS. MAYBE IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION IF YOU WANT MY OPINION. , THANK YOU. YEAH, I MEAN, I, I, I THINK THE, TO TO THE POINT OF, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A BLANK SLATE THAT'S KIND OF LIKE THE NAME OF THE GAME WITH GENERAL PLAN IS WE ARE TRYING TO ADD SOME COLOR TO THAT SLATE AND SAY, HERE'S WHAT WE SORT OF ENVISION AND, AND THE ENVELOPE WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE GUNNING FOR. EVEN IF RIGHT NOW, UM, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF NEIGHBORHOOD REFERENCES TO ANCHOR IT TO, UM, THOUGH I DO UNDERSTAND FROM A FEASIBILITY STANDPOINT THAT THERE MIGHT BE CHALLENGES IN SORT OF LIKE FULLY ACTUALIZING THAT VISION. UM, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE SORT OF BALANCING ACT AND TRADE-OFFS THAT IS, IS THIS WHOLE BODY'S THING. UM, SO I'M SEEING HERE YOU'VE GOT THE GREEN, WHICH YOU, OH, THE GREEN IS THE PARK. OH, I KNOW RIGHT AS WELL. , I KNOW ZONE. UM, BUT TO ON THE END, THOSE INLAND PARCELS, IT'S THE YELLOWS, IT'S YELLOW, AND THEN THERE'S PURPLE BLOCKS. I THINK THAT'S THE SPECIFICITY THAT IS, UM, PROBLEMATIC. AND I, AGAIN, I'M A LITTLE, I DON'T KNOW AS MUCH AS YOU GUYS DO ABOUT THIS STUFF. I NOW VERY MUCH RECOGNIZE THIS MAP BECAUSE THAT WAS WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT WITH , WITH, UH, SCANNELL KEN, IS IT, IS IT TOO LATE TO PULL BACK ON SOME OF THE SPECIFICITY ON THIS MAP GIVEN THAT IT'S PROBLEM? I CANNOT COMMIT TO THAT. I MEAN, OUR DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL WAS TO COME BACK WITH THIS MAP, UM, WHICH WE HAVE NOT ONLY TAKEN TO PLANNING COMMISSION A FEW TIMES, UM, THE DIRECTION WAS CLEAR THAT THE MAP IS PREPARED, UM, AT THAT, AT THAT POINT IN TIME, I DON'T KNOW IF THE PLANS HAVE CHANGED, BUT TO ESSENTIALLY FACILITATE WHAT THE, UM, PARK PLANS, UM, PRESCRIBED. AND SO IF IF THE PLANS HAVE CHANGED, THEN UM, THEN WE'D HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. BUT AT THIS POINT I DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE DIRECTION FROM COUNSEL TO, TO DEVIATE. IS IT, SO, SO ON THIS IMAGE, THIS IS, UM, IS GOING BACK TO THE ACTUAL, UM, LAND USE DESIGNATION MAP. AND THIS IS WHAT WAS BROUGHT FORWARD BEFORE. THESE ARE THE CITYWIDE RECOMMENDED DESIGNATIONS AS OF FEBRUARY 26. UM, AND, AND THEN THE OTHER IMAGE ON THE SCREEN WAS THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT THROUGH THE SMART CODE ZONING DISTRICTS. SO YOU CAN SEE HERE IN GREEN IS THE PARK AREA. THEN OVER HERE WE'VE GOT TWO PARCELS, RIGHT? SIERRA, YOU'VE GOT ONE PARCEL UP HERE AND THEN YOUR LARGER PARCEL DOWN HERE THAT HAS TWO DIFFERENT DESIGNATIONS WITHIN IT. CORRECT? RIGHT. AND, AND GO AHEAD. UH, I DON'T WANNA GET INTO THE WEEDS HERE AND THIS ISN'T ABOUT THE RIVER PARK OR, UM, OR THE HOUSING, BUT, UM, NO, BUT IT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE THOUGH, FOR SURE. YEAH. AND I WILL SAY THAT WHEN WE DID, AND AGAIN BROUGHT THAT IT WAS A, IT WAS AT THE FIT KATE TO TEST LEVEL, LIKE IT WAS, IT WAS REALLY PRE NOT EVEN CO I MEAN I GUESS IT WAS KIND OF CONCEPT, IT WAS REALLY THE ARCHITECTS WERE CHALLENGED WITH WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT COULD FIT HERE. AND THEN WE TOOK THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE, UM, ABLE, THAT THE CEILING WAS HIGH ENOUGH IN TERMS OF THE FUTURE DENSITY. UM, BUT EVEN THE CITY SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT COFIELD EXTENSION CURRENTLY IS PLANNED TO GO RIGHT THROUGH , THOSE PURPLE BLOCKS. AND I DID WRITE TO STAFF AT THE TIME OF THE LAND USE [02:30:01] DESIGNATION THAT IT WAS OVERLY PRESCRIPTIVE. SO I'M JUST GONNA SAY THAT, SO I THINK THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE BECAUSE IF WE THOUGHT ABOUT THE OPTIONS HERE UNDER OPTION ONE, WE WOULD BE REQUIRED TO MORE STRICTLY COMPLY WITH THIS CONFIGURATION. UM, WHICH IS, IS REALLY GETTING TO DENSITY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO BE URBAN CORRIDOR, UM, IN THESE DARKER PURPLE SQUARES WITH, UM, STEP DOWN MIXED USE IN THE, IN THE LIGHTER COLOR. AND SO OPTION ONE WOULD SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, GIVEN WITH THE EXCEPTION OF, YOU KNOW, SOME VARIABILITY, IT, IT GENERALLY HAS TO BE THIS HIGHER DENSITY IN HERE AND CONFORM TO, UM, A DIFFERENT SET OF STANDARDS THAN, THAN ELSEWHERE. WHEREAS OPTION B WOULD SAY, ACHIEVE THE DENSITY THAT'S REQUIRED BY THESE DESIGNATIONS, BUT DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THE SITE AND, AND DO WHAT'S BEST FOR ITS RELATIONSHIP TO, UH, RIVERFRONT AS WELL AS TO THE PARK AS WELL AS TO, UM, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GET UP OVER HERE WHERE YOU'RE CLOSER TO THE STATION AND YOU'RE THINKING MORE ABOUT, UH, TRANSIT, UM, SUPPORTIVE DEVELOPMENT, PERHAPS MORE SO THAN DOWN HERE. OKAY. I THINK WE'VE GOT SOME CONSENSUS UP HERE THAT OPTION B IS PREFERRED TO PROVIDE THAT FLEXIBILITY WHEN THIS HAPPENS. OKAY. THERE WAS ALSO JUST A, ON ON THIS SECOND POINT IN, UM, SEA'S PUBLIC COMMENT ABOUT A SORT OF LANGUAGE SITUATION THAT HAS BOTH MULTIPLE DWELLINGS AND SINGLE FELL BLADE DWELLINGS ABOUT TABLE 4.2. YEAH, THAT YEAH, THAT, THAT IS CLERICAL. THAT THAT'S, THAT IS CLERICAL. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. THIS IN FACT, I WAS LIKE THAT. YOU'RE RIGHT. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE, . IN FACT, THIS IS SUBJECT TO THE SMART CODE. AND SO WE'RE NOT MODIFYING THE SMART CODE ALLOWABLE LAND USES AT ALL THROUGH THROUGH PHASE ONE AMENDMENTS. OKAY. WHERE TO NEXT? DID WE DO THE UNIT THRESHOLD FOR SITE PLAN ON ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW EXEMPTION? I THINK WE DID. WE DID. NO, NO, I THINK WE WANNA REVISIT THAT. YEAH. ANYONE WANNA GET INTO IT? ITS A FAIRLY ARBITRARY NUMBER 10 IS ALIGNED WITH THE STATE, RIGHT? 15. UM, I'LL LOOK AT LIKE, UH, EIGHT 90, UH, PETALUMA BOULEVARD, RIGHT? I THINK THAT STARTED AS 13 UNITS. LIKE THAT'S A, AN EXAMPLE OF A PROJECT THAT I WANT TO SEE HAPPEN, RIGHT? AND SO SADDLING THAT PROJECT WITH AN EXTRA 12 TO 20 WEEKS AND THE, YOU KNOW, THE COMMERCIAL SPACE ON THAT ONE WAS PART OF WHAT KILLED IT. THERE WAS A NUMBER OF THINGS. I HE'S, I'M SURE HE IS SHARED, SHARED WITH YOU ALL THE THINGS THAT KILLED THAT PROJECT, RIGHT? BUT LIKE THAT'S A, AN EXAMPLE OF A PROJECT THAT I'D LOVE TO SEE ACTUALLY HAPPEN, RIGHT? AND SO 15 AGAIN, UH, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT THIS IS PHASE ONE, RIGHT? LIKE THE, TO ME, I LOOK AT PHASE ONE OF LIKE, THIS IS OUR OPPORTUNITY TO SEE WHAT, LIKE IF WE CAN MAKE SOMETHING WORK AND IF WE DON'T ACTUALLY LIKE CUT THE LOCKS ON THE DOORS AND ALLOW THINGS TO MOVE, THEN WE'RE GONNA GET TO THE PHASE TWO AND WE'RE GONNA ADOPT MORE POLICIES AND WE PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, AND WE'RE NOT GONNA KNOW IF ANYTHING ACTUALLY WORKS. AND SO, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US BE AMBITIOUS IN PHASE ONE KNOWING THAT LIKE THIS IS THE, THE START AND NOT THE END OF WHERE WE'RE GOING. AND, UM, TRYING TO, TO SEE IF WE ACTUALLY CAN, YOU KNOW, THIS, I MEAN THESE ARE LO LIKE, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT SOME BIG OUT OF TOWN DEVELOPER. THESE ARE LIKE LOCAL PEOPLE TRYING TO PROVIDE HOUSING THAT OUR COMMUNITY NEEDS. AND, AND SO THAT'S, I JUST TRY AND THINK ABOUT IT AS LIKE BEING FAIR, BEING CLEAR AND HELPING PROJECTS GET MOVING. JUST TO CLARIFY A POINT ON THIS ONE, IF WE ARE, UH, YOU KNOW, SETTING THE THRESHOLD THAT WOULD ALLOW PROJECTS TO SKIP SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW, THEY DO NEED TO ABIDE BY THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS AS WE HAVE SET OUT FOR THE STATE PROJECTS, RIGHT? UH, YES, THAT'S CORRECT. WE ARE TEST FITTING THEM RIGHT NOW AND WE WOULD ACCEPT THOSE, UM, STANDARDS THAT WOULD NOT, THAT WOULD MAKE SMALLER SCALE PROJECTS INFEASIBLE. SO, UM, SAY MORE ABOUT THAT. SO WE WOULD, WE WOULD, WE WOULD PULL BACK ON SOME OF THE OBJECTIVE ON SOME OF THOSE WOULD MAKE THEM INFEASIBLE, RIGHT? SO LIKE FOR INSTANCE, THERE'S, THERE'S A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BICYCLE ROOM, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR ALL THAT'S AN OBJECTIVE STANDARD. BUT WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT LIKE A SIX OR EIGHT UNIT PROJECT, DOES THAT [02:35:01] REALLY DRIVE A BICYCLE ROOM, UM, TO BE DESIGNED INTO THE PROJECT? SO WE WERE THINKING AT A 10 UNIT WE COULD PULL IT BACK ON THAT STANDARD AND NOT REQUIRE IT. OKAY. SO THERE WOULD BE A SORT OF OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS LIGHT FOR THE YEAH, WE WOULD, SMALL PROJECTS WE WOULD ACCEPT, WHAT WE WOULD SAY IS THAT IT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO ALL STANDARDS CONTAINED IN 7.120 EXCEPT, AND THEN HAVE A LIST OF ACCEPTED STANDARDS. I SEE. INTERESTING. THE REASON I I BRING IT UP IS THAT WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME GETTING THOSE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS TO BE REALLY PREMIUM. AND I THINK THERE WAS A A LOT OF CONVERSATION ABOUT LIKE, IF A PROJECT IS BUILT TO THIS STANDARD, THEN LIKE GO NUTS, . SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE ARE APPLYING THOSE OBJECTIVE DE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT ARE SO WELL THOUGHT AND ATTRACTIVE THAN I SAY, UH, YOU KNOW, UNLOCK THE DOORS , UM, BECAUSE THE INTENT OF THOSE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS WERE, WE'RE SO WELL THOUGHT TO BUILD GOOD HOUSING. UM, BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT WE'RE CARVING OUT SOME OF THOSE PROVISIONS MAY BE LESS APPLICABLE. UM, COMMISSIONER AUER, THANK YOU. UM, 15 DOESN'T SOUND LIKE AN UNREASONABLE NUMBER TO ME. I'M WONDERING IF, UH, STATE BEST PRACTICE OR LAW SPECIFIES LIKE 10 AT THE MOMENT, BUT WERE TO INCREASE IN THE FUTURE, UH, WHETHER WE COULD BE TIED TO THAT INCREASE BY, BY REFERENCE TO LAW. I'LL LOOK TO DYLAN VERY QUICKLY. YEAH. AND I JUST WANNA CLARIFY TOO, ANDREW, WE, IT'S NOT JUST THE SPAR. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, IT'S ALSO GOING TO BE MINISTERIAL FOR THE SUBDIVISIONS AS WELL UP TO WHATEVER NUMBER WE SAY TOO, RIGHT? KIND OF LIKE 1, 1, 2, 3, CORRECT. YEAH. MM-HMM . SO IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY MINISTERIAL, BUT UH, THAT IS SOME LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE PLAYING WITH CHRISTOPHER, UH, ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO, UH, I THINK WHAT WE WOULD DO IS HAVE LANGUAGE THAT SAYS THE CITY, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO CONSIDER THE FLOOR, BUT ALSO THE STATE LAW GOES ABOVE IT, THEN THAT WOULD BE PERMISSIBLE AS WELL. AND WE CAN CITE BACK TO THE SB 1, 1, 2, 3. BUT THAT'S LANGUAGE THAT THE COMMISSIONERS ARE THINKING IT'D BE. OKAY. UM, MY, MY INTENTION THERE IS THAT LIKE IF 10 IS HOLD IS HOLDING US BACK AT THE MOMENT, OR IF 15 IS HOLDING US BACK IN THE FUTURE, NOT NEEDING TO REVISIT THIS AND JUST CONTINUE DOING WHAT IS CONSIDERED BEST PRACTICE BY THE STATE AND NOT NEEDING TO GO THROUGH THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN IN FUTURE. I THINK THE CHALLENGE IS, UM, WITHOUT, THERE ISN'T A STRAIGHTFORWARD WAY, UM, THAT THE STATE WOULD THEN GO THROUGH AND UPDATE THEIR STANDARDS TO SAY FIFTEENS ACCEPTABLE OR 20 IS ACCEPTABLE. ONE WAY WE COULD LOOK AT THIS IS TO THE CHAIR'S POINT, WE'D SPENT A LOT OF TIME, UM, REALLY DIALING IN THOSE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS. WE DON'T HAVE EVEN A PROJECT THAT HAS COME FORWARD TO ACTUALLY TEST IT IN REALITY. UM, THAT SAID, WE FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, WE TESTED THAT WITH THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY. WE TESTED IT WITH THE GENERAL COMMUNITY, WE TESTED IT WITH THE COMMISSION. UM, AND SO AT THIS POINT, THOSE ARE OUR OBJECTIVE STANDARDS. UM, IF WE THINK ABOUT A MINIMUM LOT SIZE OF 2,800, I WOULD JUST DO SOME BACK OF THE, YOU KNOW, ENVELOPE MATH OF WHAT WE MAY BE COMFORTABLE WITH PUSHING STRAIGHT TO MINISTERIAL. IF THAT'S 15, I MEAN IT, IT IS SOMEWHAT ARBITRARY. UM, JUST SO I'M CATCHING YOU CORRECTLY, YOU'RE SAYING THAT NONE OF THE, WE'VE HAD NO, LIKE THREE THIRTIES THAT HAVE HAD TO ABIDE BY THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS COME THROUGH. NO, VENA, RIGHT? THAT WAS BEFORE. WOW. YEP. THEY ALL CAME IN RIGHT BEFORE. INTERESTING. HAVE WE HEARD FEEDBACK THAT THEY'RE OVERLY ONEROUS AND THEREFORE NO. CANNOT BE ACHIEVED. OKAY. NO, I MEAN THE ONE WE WOULD EXPECT IS THE MID PEN. SO EAST WASHINGTON COMMONS, UM, AGAIN, THEY'RE, THAT'S NOT ANY ANYTIME SOON. UM, THEY STILL NEED TO GET FUNDING. UM, BUT THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY THE NEXT IN LINE. UM, SO YEAH, 2,800 SQUARE FEET TIMES 20 TIMES 10, THAT'S WHAT, 2020 8,000. UM, SO YOU THINK ABOUT JUST COMFORT LEVEL OF WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD BE FEASIBLE HERE WITH THE LAND THAT WE HAVE, THE DIFFERENT PARCEL SIZES. UM, AND THAT'S HOW WE COME, CAME TO BE WITH 10. UM, THAT SAID, AS WE START, YOU KNOW, IF THE COMMISSION WANTS TO PUSH US TO LOOK, UH, DEEPER INTO IT, WE [02:40:01] CAN LOOK TO SEE IF WE CAN INCREASE THAT NUMBER. AND I THINK FOR, I THINK AS FAR AS PAIRING BACK THE 7.120 OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, LET'S, I'D PREFER TO WORK THROUGH THE TEST FIT BECAUSE I THINK THAT GIVEN EVEN JUST THIS CONVERSATION, UM, WE WERE LOOKING AT A VERY SMALL GROUP ANYWAY. AND SO WE CAN EVALUATE THOSE AND IT COULD WELL BE THAT WE FIND THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD ALL BE IMPLEMENTED REASONABLY BY ANY SCALE OF PROJECT. SO I PREFER TO WORK THROUGH IT AND, AND PERHAPS COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION WITH, UH, COMPLIANCE REQUIRED FOR THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, NO EXCEPTIONS THAN TO SORT OF COME OUT OF THIS MEETING MORE FOCUSED ON THE ISSUE OF EXCEPTIONS THAN PERHAPS WE NEED TO BE DOES THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARD APPLICATION TO PROJECTS OF THIS SORT. 'CAUSE IF MEMORY SERVES, WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS AND THEY WERE SO PREMIUM, THERE WAS THIS NOTION OF, WELL, ONCE AN ACTUAL PROJECT COMES FORWARD AND THEY HAVE THESE VARIOUS WAIVERS, MAYBE THEY MANAGE TO TAKE OFF THE FINAL WINDOWS BECAUSE OF THE WAVE, WHATEVER. SO WOULD THIS APPLICATION OF THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT WERE CREATED WITH, YOU KNOW, SB THREE 30 PROJECTS IN MIND, HAVE ANY NOTION OF WAIVER OR IT WOULD BE BY THE BOOK A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS FRONT OF THAT? PRESUMABLY UNDER THE CURRENT SITUATION WHERE THE INCLUSIONARY HOUSING ORDINANCE IS ENFORCED, THEN YOU WOULD BE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE UP AT A 10 UNIT PROJECT, YOU WOULD BE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE INCLUSION INCLUSIONARY UNITS AND THEN THAT WOULD MAKE YOU QUA, THEN YOU WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR DENSITY BONUS AND YOU WOULD GET WAIVERS AND CONCESSIONS THROUGH THAT. SO, OKAY, SO YOU COULD EARN YOUR WAY TO SOME WAIVERS, RIGHT? MM-HMM . POTENTIALLY, BUT, BUT THERE, THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY WAY WOULD BE THROUGH DENSITY BONUS. I SEE. YEAH. BUT IF A PROJECT SAID WE HAVE 15 UNITS THAT WE WANNA BE MARKET RATE AND WE, YOU KNOW, ARE GOING DOWN THIS PATH AND WE SAY, OKAY, IT'S THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS. WELL YEAH, BUT EXCEPT THAT AT AT, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, A 15 UNIT PROJECT WOULD BE, WOULD BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THE INCLUSIONARY HOUSING ORDINANCE. SO I SEE. YEAH. RIGHT. INTERESTING. SO, SO THE QUESTION FOR US IS 10 OR COUNCIL MEMBER BARNELL SUGGESTING 15 I I HEARD STAFF SAY THAT THEY WOULD LOOK AT 15 TO SEE HOW THAT WOULD WORK AND COME BACK TO US. IS THAT WHERE WE ARE? WELL, WHAT WE WOULD DO IS, IS TELL WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IS TEST FITTING THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS TO MAKE SURE, ESPECIALLY WE, WE KNOW THEY'LL WORK AT THE OF 15. THE QUESTION IS WOULD THEY BECOME TOO ONEROUS OR, OR UNACHIEVABLE AT LIKE, SAY TWO TO FOUR UNITS. OKAY. MORE ON THE SMALLER END OF THE SCALE. UM, AS FAR AS A, A 10 TO 15, I MEAN, I THINK THAT, THAT THERE'S THE REALLY, AGAIN, THE 10 WAS JUST TO LOOK FOR SOME NUMBER OF UNITS THAT COULD BE EXEMPT AND LOOKING TO THE STATE AND SEEING HOW THE STATE DEFINES A SMALL HOUSING PROJECT. UM, AND THEN LOOKING TO STATE LAW, LIKE SP 10, WHICH IS 10 UNIT, PRESUMABLY BECAUSE THE STATE CONSIDERS THAT A SMALL HOUSING PROJECT, UH, THAT'S WHERE WE LANDED ON 10. UM, SO I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD, IF, IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE A, THE TOLERANCE, YOU COULD GO HIGHER. UM, COUNCIL MEMBERS, YOU HAD A, YOU HAD A HAND UP COUNCIL MEMBERS. YEAH, I MEAN, I, UM, APPRECIATE USING THE STATE. AND I ALSO THINK THAT, UM, THE STATE CHOOSING 10 IS ALSO JUST AS ARBITRARY AS US CHOOSING 15, RIGHT? LIKE IT'S, UH, IT'S ABOUT LIKE, ARE WE, YOU KNOW, UM, TRYING TO BE MORE AMBITIOUS THAN THE STATE BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THE STATE CHOSE THAT NUMBER BECAUSE THEY NEEDED TO GET A MAJORITY OF LEGISLATORS TO VOTE FOR SOMETHING. AND THAT'S WHAT THE DEFINITION CAME TO, RIGHT? SO LET'S, LIKE THAT'S, THEY'RE, THEY'RE MAKING POLICY IN THE SAME WAY WE ARE, RIGHT? SO I FEEL LIKE IF WE SET IT AT 15 AND WE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LIKE, OH, DANG, I DON'T WANT THAT. RIGHT? BUT I CAN THINK OF 13 UNIT PROJECTS THAT I WOULD'VE LOVED TO SEE HAPPEN AND I THINK WOULD'VE BEEN REALLY GOOD FOR OUR COMMUNITY. AND, UM, THEY DIDN'T HAPPEN. AND SO, UM, I'M NOT SAYING THIS WOULD'VE CHANGED [02:45:01] THAT, BUT I'M JUST THINKING LIKE OF ALL THE DIFFERENT PIECES OF RED TAPE THAT OUR CURRENT ZONING CODE HAS, I'M TRYING TO STRIP BACK AS MANY OF 'EM AS I CAN FOR, ESPECIALLY FOR THESE SMALL, LIKE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE TALK ABOUT HEIGHT AND DENSITY AND THINGS LIKE THAT. LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE SMALL PROJECTS THAT ARE GOING IN, WE SAW THOSE PICTURES, RIGHT? LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE MORE OF THOSE. AND THAT IS, UM, FOR ME, LIKE THAT'S WHAT I'M ULTIMATELY TRYING, LIKE WHY I COME IN ASKING FOR 15. YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT POINT THAT, YOU KNOW, IT IS SORT OF ARBITRARY NO MATTER WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING AND, AND SUBJECTIVE. SO I THINK TO THE EXTENT THAT WE WANNA SET IT AT 15 AND, AND IN THE SORT OF SERVICE OF THOSE REMOVING BARRIERS TO ENTRY, THAT FIGURING OUT THE TEST FIT FOR THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS AND, AND PEELING BACK SOME OF THE MORE, UM, FEASIBILITY RISKING , UH, PIECES MAKES A, MAKES A LOT OF SENSE WHEN OUR, AGAIN, BACK TO SORT OF LIKE, WHAT DO WE WANT, WHAT IS OUR GOAL IS TO ALLOW FOR LOCAL, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY HOMEOWNERS THAT HAVE SOME EXTRA LAND THAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO BUILD A, A DUPLEX OR A TRIPLEX OR MAYBE A COUPLE OF TRIPLEXES AND NOW WE'VE GOT SIX MORE HOMES AVAILABLE. UM, YOU KNOW, WI WITHIN THE HOUSING MIX IS LIKE, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET TOWARDS. AND I'LL JUST ADD TOO, ANYTHING ABOVE 10, WE PROBABLY JUST NEED TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT SQA. 'CAUSE ONE OF THE GOALS OF MAKING, GETTING RID OF SPAR MAKING MINISTERIAL IS THERE'S GONNA BE NO MORE SE QL REVIEW. SO, YOU KNOW, THEN HIGHER THE NUMBER, THE GREATER THE IMPACTS POTENTIALLY ARE ON THE ENVIRONMENT. SO ANDREW, BRIAN AND I WERE TALKING THIS MORNING AND WE'D LIKE TO ADD A PROVISION ABOUT, I FORGET THE SPECIFIC GOVERNMENT CODE, BUT IT REQUIRES A MINISTERIAL REVIEW, EXCEPT IF IT'S ON SENSITIVE HABITAT AREAS, CONSERVATION EASEMENTS WHERE THERE'S, UH, PROTECTED OR WETLANDS PROTECTED SPECIES. SO CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW THE DRAFT JUST HAS HILLSIDE AND HISTORICAL, BUT WE'D ALSO ADD THOSE KIND OF SENSITIVE AREAS AS WELL. OKAY. SO JUST TO CLOSE THIS OUT, WE'RE LOOKING AT 15. YOU'RE GONNA FIGURE OUT WHAT THE ADDITIONAL SORT OF ASTERISK IS FOR SOMETHING WITH ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS AND THE POTENTIAL, AND YOU ARE GONNA KEEP GOING ON THE, UH, CORRECT OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, CARVE OUTS FOR SMALL PROJECTS. GREAT. NEXT THING, OR, UH, LET'S TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS IF THAT'S GREAT IDEA. A GOOD PLACE TO STOP. YEAH, LET'S DO THAT FIVE MINUTE RECESS. BE BACK AT ABOUT 8 55. SOLID. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT, BACK TO IT. OH, WE NEED YOUR REEL TO PRESS THE BUTTON BACK ON THE RECORD NOW BUTTON. THANK YOU. THANK, I GUESS WE WE'RE STILL ON, YOU DIDN'T PAUSE THE RECORDING, RIGHT? GREAT. I'M GLAD EVERYBODY SUBTITLES HEARD, HEARD OUR STORIES ABOUT OUR SUMMER BREAKS AND VARIOUS KID CHALLENGES. . OKAY, LET'S MOVE TOWARDS THE NEXT THING. STAFF. DO YOU WANNA POINT US IN THE DIRECTION OR WE HAD A PITCH FROM COMMISSIONER AUER TO LOOK AT SLIDE 17. UM, WELL, I KNOW WE'VE GOT ONE, ME ONE, UH, MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC HERE WHO'S INTERESTED IN CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUIREMENTS FOR COMMERCIAL USES PUBLISHED HERE. , THERE WERE MORE BEFORE ONE OF ONE, RIGHT? ? WE HAD A FEW MORE BEFORE. SO I WAS THINKING WE COULD, WE COULD HEAD TO THE USE QUESTIONS FIRST AND, AND THEN COME BACK. THAT'S TO STANDARDS. OKAY. UM, SO I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND SHARE MY SCREEN. LET ME, SO THIS WAS, UH, IN YOUR PACKET, I BELIEVE IT WAS, UM, SIX B, AND THESE ARE THE USE TABLES. THERE'S FOUR USE TABLES FOR EACH OF THE FAMILIES OF ZONING DISTRICTS. STARTING OUT WITH RESIDENTIAL. WE'VE GOT THE, UM, THE SIX RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS EXCLUDING THE SEVENTH, WHICH IS, UM, MOBILE HOME PARK. AND, UM, WE'VE GOT COMMUNITY MEETING FACILITY AND RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS REQUIRING A COMMERCIAL USE PERMIT AS WELL AS SCHOOLS. UH, I THINK IN BOTH CASES, YOU KNOW, SCHOOLS CERTAINLY THEY'RE, DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF SCHOOL, THERE CAN BE SOME DISRUPTION RELATED TO, YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC TO NOISE FROM, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN BEING [02:50:01] OUTSIDE. AND IF THEY'RE IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, UM, EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES, SUMMER ACTIVITIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THAT'S TYPICALLY WHERE WE DO SEE CONCERNS AROUND SCHOOLS. UM, COMMUTING, FA, COMMUNITY MEETING FACILITIES. UM, NOT SO MUCH. UM, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE WHEN WE THINK ABOUT COMMUNITY MEETING FACILITIES, WE, RELIGIOUS FACILITIES ARE CLASSIFIED UNDER THAT CATEGORY. UM, I THINK WE ALSO HAVE LIKE MEMBERSHIP CLUBS, LIKE THE ELKS LODGE, WHICH IS RIGHT DOWN THE STREET. IT'S EITHER ELKS OR MOOSE. I CAN'T. UM, BUT THOSE CAN BE MORE EMBEDDED IN NEIGHBORHOODS, UM, UH, WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY BE ON, ON A, BEING SERVICED BY A MINOR STREET WHERE THERE COULD BE SOME POTENTIAL TRAFFIC ISSUES TO BE AWARE OF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UM, ALSO I WOULD, I WOULD RECOGNIZE THESE AS SEEKING TO PROTECT, UH, RESIDENTIALLY ZONED PROPERTIES FOR RESIDENTIAL USES. SO IF YOU WERE TO RELAX YOUR PERMIT REQUIREMENTS HERE, YOU COULD SEE A CONVERSION OF LAND AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL USES, BUT ARGUABLY INTO USES THAT WOULD BE SORT OF RESIDENTIAL SERVING IN NATURE. UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S, UH, IF YOU WANT TO, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE SOME MOVEMENT ON UNCONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, THOSE MIGHT BE THE REASONS WHY YOU WOULD WANT TO THINK THROUGH THAT BOTH, UM, FOR THE, FOR THE CUP REQUIREMENT OR AWAY FROM IT. THE OTHER THING TO NOTE HERE IS THIS CUP DESIGNATION WOULD INDICATE THAT IT COULD GO TO THE DIRECTOR, IT COULD GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION. AND SO USUALLY WE, UH, WHEN WE HAVE THAT QUESTION BEFORE US, WE WEIGH TWO THINGS. THE FIRST WOULD BE THE INTENSITY OF THE PROPOSED USE OR DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY, UH, BUT THEN ALSO THE, THE DEGREE TO WHICH THERE COULD BE, UM, NEGATIVE IMPACTS TO THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. AND IF WE FEEL THAT A PARTICULAR PROJECT WARRANTS A PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE COMMISSION, THEN WE'LL ELEVATE THAT. THAT DOES ALLOW FOR MORE VOICES IN THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS, BUT THEN IT ALSO ALLOWS FOR THE PUBLIC TO PROVIDE COMMENT IN THE, UH, PUBLIC HEARING SETTING. SO WHAT IS THE GUIDANCE THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FROM US? OR, OR THE SORT OF DIRECTION? WELL, I THINK, I THINK WE COULD, YOU KNOW, IN THIS CASE, IF, IF YOU SAY, HEY, IT'S REASONABLE, BUT A MINOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. OR WE COULD ROLL THROUGH A FEW AND COME ON BACK AND REVISIT THEM AGAIN. UM, OKAY. WHATEVER I THINK YOU FEEL WOULD BE MOST HELPFUL. I'M CURIOUS IF THERE'S ANY STAFF REACTION TO WHAT WE GOT IN ONE OF THE OTHER WRITTEN, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS, UM, TO WHICH THERE WAS A NOTION OF LIKE MAYBE FAVORING MORE OF A CODE ENFORCEMENT APPROACH AS OPPOSED TO A CUP MODEL. THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD WELL, IT'S A GREAT POINT BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, UM, I THINK THAT IF THERE'S, THERE'S USES THAT WOULD END UP WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT COMPLAINTS ANYWAY, RIGHT? UM, NO MATTER HOW, HOW TIGHTLY WE CONDITION THEM, YOU KNOW, AND OPERATORS CHANGE OVER TIME. SO EVEN IF WE'RE MORE RESTRICTIVE ON THE CONDITIONS, BUT IT IS A GOOD POINT THAT IF, IF WE, IF WE LOOSEN THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUIREMENT, IF WE GO TO A, UH, A BY RIGHT USE APPROACH, THEN WE ARE FULLY RELIANT UPON THE ESTABLISHED OBJECTIVE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS AND ON CODE ENFORCEMENT. UM, YOU KNOW, CODE ENFORCEMENT IS AN EFFECTIVE TOOL. WE HAVE A GREAT CODE ENFORCEMENT TEAM, BUT ALL OF THEIR SERVICES ARE FUNDED THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THE CITY'S GENERAL FUND. UM, BECAUSE THERE'S NO, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T RECOUP COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT, BUT ALSO IF WE BRING IN MORE BUSINESSES, OUR GENERAL FUND WILL BE STRONGER. SURE. AND SO I WOULD, UM, I'M DEFINITELY MORE SUPPORTIVE OF OBJECTIVE AND, AND THEN EN ENFORCE THE RULES, THEN, UM, CREATE MORE PAPERWORK AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THE, THE NUMBER THREE AND FOUR REALLY WAS EYE-POPPING FOR ME, AND, UM, I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY. YEAH, I THINK SO OFTEN THE CUP PROCESS IS JUST AN OPPORTUNITY FOR NEIGHBORS JUST TO COME FORWARD AND SAY, HEY, YOU'RE GONNA ABIDE BY THE CODE, RIGHT? , YOU KNOW, AND IT'S JUST SORT OF A, LIKE VOICING OF THESE FEARS THAT THE, THAT, THAT THE NOISE ORDINANCE OR WHATEVER IS NOT GOING TO BE ADHERED TO. BUT WE'VE, WE'VE FIGURED OUT WHAT WE DO WANT FROM OUR NOISE ORDINANCE JUST TO STICK WITH THAT EXAMPLE. UM, SO IF [02:55:01] YOU ARE NOT, THEN YOU'RE GONNA GET DINGED ANYWAY. SO YEAH, IT'S, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE THE CUP , UH, UH, PATHWAY HAS BEEN A BIT TOO, UM, POPULAR, UM, ACROSS A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT USES THAT, THAT WE, ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT ARE KIND OF LIKE CLOSE TO AS SHE AS WE'RE IN SOME EXAMPLES HERE THAT, YOU KNOW, A RETAIL SPACE THAT'S DOING ART CLASSES, LIKE, IS THAT REALLY THAT DIFFERENT THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A WHOLE HOOP TO JUMP THROUGH IN A CUP? UM, SO, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE IT BECOMES, YEAH, THAT'S WHERE IT BECOMES CHALLENGING. UM, THE OTHER POINT IS THESE ARE RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS. UH, YOU KNOW, WE JUMPED THROUGH THIS PRETTY QUICKLY DOWN TO, UH, OUR MIXED USE ZONES WHERE WE START TO, YOU KNOW, SEE SOME SIMILAR PATTERNS, BUT YET, UH, DIFFERENT AS WELL. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THESE COMMENTS HERE COULD EQUALLY APPLY TO MIXED USE ZONES, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE COMMERCIAL BROKERS, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE WE'RE COMING AT IT MORE. YEAH. ARE WE, ARE YOU LOOKING FOR US TO GIVE YOU SORT OF LIKE, DO YOU WANT US TO LIKE LOOK AT A TABLE AND JUST SORT OF TELL YOU WHAT WE THINK ABOUT THAT AND THEN GO TO THE NEXT PAGE AND LIKE ALL OF US SORT OF INPUT ON A TABLE? WOULD THAT BE HELP? I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE GIVE YOU USEFUL FEEDBACK ON THIS OTHER THAN VERY GENERAL OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, LESS YOU. YEAH. WELL, I THINK THIS, I THINK ACTUALLY THIS CONVERSATION IS REALLY USEFUL BECAUSE IT, IT GIVES US A VERY GOOD SENSE OF, OF HOW YOU WANNA SEE THEM CALIBRATED. SO, UM, I THINK IF, IF WE ROLL THROUGH AND ANYTHING THAT CATCHES YOUR, YOUR ATTENTION, UM, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE, THE BUSINESS PARK ONE WAS ONE THAT CAUGHT MY ATTENTION. I, I SEEM TO RECALL, UM, THERE WAS A BUNCH OF USES THAT ARE NOT PERMITTED IN IT, AND IT FEELS LIKE WE HAVE A NUMBER OF BUSINESS PARKS THAT ARE SORT OF STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW, AND IT MAY BE BETTER TO ALLOW ADDITIONAL USES IN THERE. UM, SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE ONES THAT SORT OF CAUGHT MY ATTENTION. I THINK IN THE, LET'S SEE, NANCY'S, I'M STILL HERE. THE, UM, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO, TO COMMENT. I THINK A COUPLE OF THINGS HAPPEN IN OUR BUSINESS PARK AND INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS. WE, WE DON'T HAVE A MULTIPLICITY OF ZONING DISTRICTS. WE, WE TRY TO DO ALL OF OUR KIND OF BUSINESS PARK LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, MEDIUM INDUSTRIAL, HEAVY, HEAVY INDUSTRIAL ACROSS TWO ZONING DISTRICTS. I DON'T THINK THAT CALLS FOR ADDING A ZONING DISTRICT. I DON'T WANNA SUGGEST THAT, BUT I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU SEE SOME OF THAT IMPACT. THE OTHER THING, AND NANCY, MAYBE IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE THINK ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, AVAILABLE INDUSTRIAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OR BUSINESS PARK SQUARE FOOTAGE AND PRESERVING THAT FOR CERTAIN TYPES OF USES MM-HMM . UM, THAT, THAT WE WOULD SEE A, A GREATER ECONOMIC IMPACT FROM. YEAH. AND THANK YOU NANCY SANDS FROM, UM, THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIVISION. UH, SO, UM, WE DID HAVE THE MEETING ON THE 17TH WITH OUR BROKERS AND OTHER MEMBERS OF OUR BUSINESS COMMUNITY. AND WHAT WE HEARD WAS REALLY A REFLECTION OF WHAT WE'VE HEARD OVER SEVERAL YEARS. UM, ONE OF THE TAKE TAKEAWAYS RE RELATED TO BUSINESS PARK AND, UM, INDUSTRIAL IS THREADING THAT NEEDLE, YOU KNOW, BEING, HAVING THAT BALANCE AND FLEXIBILITY. SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AS, UM, OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MANAGER, UM, CATHERINE DE PASQUA PRESENTED IN JUNE, OUR, OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WORK PLAN AND THE IMPORTANCE OF INDUSTRIAL TO OUR, UM, TO OUR ECONOMIC, TO OUR PETALUMA ECONOMY AND INDUSTRIAL. AND PETALUMA REALLY RANGES FROM KIND OF THIS LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, DESIGN THAT'S HAPPENING, UM, WITH A LITTLE BIT OF RAW MATERIALS COMING IN TO, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, FULL METAL SHOP WHERE WE'VE GOT SEMIS COMING TWICE A WEEK, BRINGING HUGE AMOUNTS OF, OF STEEL RODS. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE OF THE, UM, SPINOFF WITH, UM, INDUSTRIAL THAT WE ARE PRESERVING INDUSTRIAL FOR INDUSTRIAL USES. AND WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT, UM, ECONOMIES CHANGE OVER TIME NEEDS CHANGE OVER TIME. AND [03:00:01] THAT'S WHERE, UM, GETTING THE INPUT FROM THE, FROM THE BROKERS, WHAT THEY'VE SEEN OVER THE MANY YEARS. UH, AND, AND I MENTIONED THIS TO, TO, UM, ANDREW AS WELL, THE OTHER DAY IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL COMING TO THIS WITH, WITH DIFFERENT, UM, AGENDAS OR PRIORITIES. SO A BROKER, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE INTERESTED, THEY WANNA OBVIOUSLY MAINTAIN OUR WONDERFUL COMMUNITY AND THEY'RE LOOKING TO CLOSE A DEAL, RIGHT? UM, A PROPERTY OWNER IS ALSO LOOKING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR SPACE IS TENANT IN, AND WE WANT THAT AS WELL. UM, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS REALLY ABOUT THE GENERATION OF, OF, OF WEALTH AND CREATION OF WEALTH ACROSS THE COMMUNITY, PLANNING, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE. SO WE'RE ALL JUST TRYING TO DO THIS AND HOW DO WE DO THIS WITH THE, UH, WITH, WITH THE ZONING CODE AND, AND THE USE TABLES AND SO FORTH. UM, SO AGAIN, JUST TO REITERATE, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS PARK, BUSINESS PARK AS IMAGINED IN 1985 OR IN 1990 IS, IS DIFFERENT. WE'RE, WE'RE OPERATING DIFFERENTLY. WE HAVE DIFFERENT NEEDS NOW. AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS THAT, UM, THERE ARE DIFFERENT USES THAT ARE INTERESTED IN GOING INTO BUSINESS PARK AND EVEN INDUSTRIAL. AND SOMETIMES THAT ALSO RELATES TO THE PRICE OF THE INDUSTRIAL VERSUS THE PRICE OF LIKE A COMMERCIAL, UH, OR EVEN RETAIL SPACE. SO A, SO A BATTING CAGE. AND, AND, YOU KNOW, WE, SOME OF US ARE FAMILIAR WITH THAT EXAMPLE, A BATTING CAGE OPERATION, WANTING TO GO INTO AN INDUSTRIAL SPACE IS BECAUSE NOT ONLY YOU'VE GOT MAYBE A SHELL THAT YOU CAN MOVE INTO AND, AND WORK WITH, WITH YOUR DIFFERENT, UH, NEEDS, BUT ALSO JUST THE COST, THE PRICE POINT. NOW, IF YOU CONVERT THAT TO, TO A BATTING CAGE, THAT JUST MEANS THAT THAT'S LESS, UH, INDUSTRIAL THAT'S AVAILABLE. AND RIGHT. IF THAT INDUSTRIAL ISN'T, I IS REMAINING VACANT, THEN WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS THAT SAYING ABOUT WHAT OUR, WHERE OUR ECONOMY IS GOING? SO, UM, I I, I'M, I GUESS I'M JUST TRYING TO GIVE SOME CONTEXT OF THAT. IT, IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS A LITTLE BIT NUANCED AND WE DO, IN PETALUMA INDUSTRIAL IS NOT ONLY IMPORTANT TO US AS A COMMUNITY AND OUR CULTURE AND WHAT WE REPRESENT IN OUR HISTORY, IT'S ALSO VERY IMPORTANT ECONOMICALLY, UM, TO PRESERVE THAT INDUSTRIAL, UH, USE. AND OUR TEAM IS WORKING, UH, TO CONNECT, RECONNECT WITH OUR, WITH OUR INDUSTRIAL BUSINESSES TO REALLY HEAR WHAT, HOW THEY'RE, HOW THEY'RE EVOLVING, WHAT THEY'RE DOING, WHAT DOES INDUSTRIAL LOOK LIKE NOW, WHAT IS IT GONNA LOOK LIKE IN 10, 15, 20 YEARS? UM, HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE SUPPORT SMALL MAKER BUSINESSES INTO MOVING INTO, UH, BIG, LARGER, UH, YOU KNOW, MORE SUSTAINABLE, UH, BUSINESSES LONG TERM. SO IT'S NOT JUST ONE OR TWO EMPLOYEES, IT'S, IT'S MANY EMPLOYEES. AND WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? UM, AND, AND TO, UH, ANDREW'S POINT ABOUT INDUSTRIAL, INDUSTRIAL IS, IS THE PRODUCTION OF GOODS HERE IN PETALUMA THAT IS THEN SOLD OUTSIDE OF PETALUMA. WHEREAS WHEN YOU BRING A, A SERVICE TYPE OF OPERATION INTO AN, INTO INDUSTRIAL, UM, YOU'RE REALLY JUST KEEPING EVERY, IT IS A BIT OF A CIRCULAR ECONOMY, WHICH I KNOW WE, WE WANT, 'CAUSE WE WANNA SUPPORT OUR LOCAL BUSINESSES AND WE ALSO NEED, UH, IN ORDER TO STAY VIBRANT LONG TERM, WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO EXPORT GOODS, UM, OUTSIDE OF PETALUMA AS WELL AS, UM, MAKE SURE THAT WE, WE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE WE'RE SUPPORTING IN, UM, SERVICE TYPE BUSINESSES HERE. THAT'S JUST PROVIDING A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT. AND IF, IF THERE'S A MORE SPECIFIC QUESTION I'D, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THAT. I GUESS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS, I GUESS THEN JUST, I APPRECIATE THAT AND I DEFINITELY REMEMBER THE, THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WORKSHOP OR A WORK PLAN SAYING THAT IN INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURING BEING LIKE, YOU KNOW, VERY, VERY PROSPEROUS FOR THE CITY RELATIVE TO ANYTHING ELSE, PRETTY MUCH, UM, WHEN I LOOK AT THE OTHER, UM, DESIGNATIONS, THE BUSINESS PARK, I LOOK AT THAT AND IT FEELS FAIRLY RESTRICTIVE. WE HAVEN'T EVEN DEFINED THE MAKE OR MICRO BUSINESS, WHAT PARTS OF OUR, OF OUR AREA. LIKE I THINK OF UP REDWOOD WAY, THERE'S A LOT OF VACANT OFFICE SPACE MM-HMM . I THINK, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER QUINT SAID THAT WE WERE LIKE, ONE OF THE [03:05:01] AREAS WHERE WE WERE MOST SOFT WAS IN OFFICE. LIKE WHAT ARE THE AREAS WHERE WE'RE VERY, LIKE, WHERE WE HAVE A HIGH VACANCY RATE RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE PROBLEMS AND WE SHOULD BE REALLY TARGETING OUR SORT OF FLEXIBILITY. MM-HMM . UM, AS WE LOOK AT THE, THE, THE ZONING CODE TABLES, UH, WELL, I THINK WHAT WE HEARD FROM OUR BROKERS IS THAT, UM, THERE, THERE OBVIOUSLY THERE'S LESS NEED FOR OFFICE RIGHT NOW. UM, THERE ARE CERTAIN BUSINESS PARKS, AND THIS IS TO WHAT ANDREW MENTIONED, THERE ARE CERTAIN BUSINESS PARKS. SO, SO DEPENDING ON THE BUS, ON THE, ON THE AREA WITHIN THE, THE CITY, SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENTS, THE HISTORIC, YOU KNOW, HISTORICAL BUSINESS PARK DEVELOPMENTS HAVE RULES THAT GOVERN WHAT CAN GO IN THE, IN, IN, JUST IN THAT AREA, RIGHT? SO THERE ARE, UH, AND THOSE ARE CALLED PCDS OR, OR, OR PUDS, I BELIEVE. ANDREW, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, PCDS, PCDS. AND, UM, AGAIN, THOSE WERE KIND OF DEVELOPED OVER MANY YEARS, YOU KNOW, EIGHTIES, NINETIES, UM, SOME OF THOSE PCDS ACTUALLY ARE, ARE REALLY EFFECTIVE AND THEY'RE VERY FLEXIBLE WHILE THERE ARE OTHERS THAT ARE, ARE MORE RESTRICTIVE. AND SO WE DO SEE SOME OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE MORE FLEXIBILITY BY, BY LOOKING, AND THIS WAS WHAT ANDREW REFERRED TO EARLIER, LOOKING AT THE REALLY MORE SUCCESSFUL, UM, PCDS AND USING THOSE AS A, AS A MODEL FOR THIS KIND OF MELDING OF BUSINESS PARK LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, UM, A ACROSS THE AREAS THAT WOULD, WOULD, UH, THAT WOULD BE SUPPORTED IN, IN, UM, IN THE, IN THE TABLE. OTHER PEOPLE HAVE QUESTIONS. I, I'M FORMULATING MY THOUGHTS. AND WE DID, IN, IN OUR MEETING, WE, WE KIND OF IDENTIFIED, UM, SOME USES THAT ARE, THAT ARE COMING UP MORE OFTEN, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THESE KIND OF RECREATION SLASH YOU KNOW, IN THE EXISTING TABLE THEY COULD BE SEEN AS A FITNESS FACILITY OR A, UM, INDOOR RECREATION. AND SO THAT WAS ALSO A REQUEST TO KIND OF LOOK AT A FEW OF THE USES AND MODERNIZE THEM A BIT WHILE ALSO TRYING TO PRESERVE THE FLEXIBILITY FOR THE LONG TERM. BECAUSE AGAIN, AND THE ECONOMY AND THE, AND, AND THE MARKET IS ALWAYS CHANGING, SO HOW DO WE RESPOND TO THAT? UM, WHILE ALSO, UH, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE PRESERVING WHAT WE WANNA PRESERVE AND WE'RE ALSO RESPONDING AND CHANGING WHEN WE NEED TO CHANGE. HOW, HOW DOES IT HANDLE A UNCONSIDERED USE? BECAUSE AT, AT CURRENT, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO THINK OF EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THAT COULD GO AND, YOU KNOW, COVER ALL OUR BASES, BUT WHO KNOWS WHAT TYPE OF NEWFANGLED BUSINESSES WILL BE CONSIDERED IN, IN THE NEXT 20 YEAR PERIOD. SO LIKE, HOW, HOW DOES THAT GET BROACHED WHEN THERE IS I'LL LET THESE YEAH. TECHNICAL EXPERTS RESPOND TO THAT. THANK YOU. WELL, UM, THANKS NANCY. UM, SO THERE'S, IS IT CHAPTER THREE? THE, UM, SIMILAR BUT NOT SIMILAR, THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT DEAL, BUT YEAH. YEAH. . SO WHAT TYPICALLY HAPPENS IS SOMETHING COMES IN AT THE COUNTER, UM, DOESN'T PERFECTLY FIT SOMETHING, OR PERHAPS IT'S MULTIUSE. I THINK ABOUT, UM, BUG WITH HERITAGE SALVAGE, THERE'S A FEW DIFFERENT TYPES OF OH YES. BUSINESSES. UM, AND SO IT USUALLY REQUIRES A FEW OF US, UM, NANCY PLANNING, UM, UH, TO WRESTLE WITH IT AND, AND ESSENTIALLY MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT IT'S SIMILAR, IT FITS MOST CLOSELY INTO SOME BOX. UM, SO ONE EXAMPLE THAT WE USE GRIFFO, RIGHT? THAT'S A GOOD PROJECT. UM, WHERE IT HAS CHANGED FROM YOUR MORE TRADITIONAL, UM, MANUFACTURING, FOOD, FOOD AND BEVERAGE MANUFACTURING TO A, UM, I DON'T WANNA SAY RETAIL, BUT IT, IT'S SOMETHING MORE, RIGHT? IT'S A, IT'S A SPACE. UM, AND THAT'S ONE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR CODE, IT'S A BUSINESS PARK. UM, IT DOESN'T NEATLY FIT IN, RIGHT? SO IF YOU JUST [03:10:01] CAME TO THE COUNTER AND SAID, HEY, THIS IS MY BUSINESS AND THESE ARE THE THREE THINGS I WANNA DO, IT DOES TAKE SOME OF THAT WRESTLING. UM, UH, AND SO THAT'S HOW IT HAPPENS NOW IS WE SPEND THE TIME, WE TRY TO BE VERY DILIGENT AND NIMBLE TO GET THOSE RESPONSES OUT. GRIFFO IS ONE EXAMPLE OF ONE WHERE THEY DID EXPAND. UM, IT IS A PERMITTED USE, UM, BUT IT DID TAKE SOME TIME FOR US TO GET TO THAT CONCLUSION. UM, WE WOULD LOVE TO, AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA AVOID THAT. THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE NEXT GRIF O UM, AND WE CAN DO OUR BEST TO, UM, CREATE A REGULATORY FRAMEWORK THAT IS FLEXIBLE, UM, SO THAT SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE JUST DON'T ANTICIPATE, UM, THERE'S EITHER A VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD PROCESS, MINOR, CUP, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, UM, OR A MI YOU KNOW, A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT. UM, OR WE CAN MAKE THE SIMILAR USE, UM, INTERPRETATION AND JUST MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PERMITTED USE. IS GRIFFO BUSINESS PARK OR LIGHT INDU OR INDUSTRIAL, I THINK IT'S BUSINESS PARK, RIGHT? THAT'S BUSINESS PARK, YEAH. I, I THINK ANOTHER EXAMPLE, MORE RECENT EXAMPLE IF I CAN SHARE IS STEMPEL CREEK. SO THEY, UM, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE AMAZING COMPANY, I THINK FOURTH OR FIFTH GENERATION RANCHING OUT IN WEST MARIN. UM, THEY, UM, THEY RAISE, YOU KNOW, CATTLE, PIGS, CHICKENS, UM, ON THEIR, ACTUALLY, I DON'T THINK THEY DO CHICKENS, BUT THEY DO CATTLE AND PIGS ON THEIR RANCH. AND, UM, IT'S PROCESSED ELSEWHERE. THEY HAD MULTIPLE DIFFERENT WAREHOUSES AND DISTRIBUTION AREAS. THEY'VE NOW CONSOLIDATED AND THEY'VE BROUGHT THEIR BUSINESS TO PETALUMA, WHICH WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT. THEY ALSO WANTED TO HAVE, UH, A SMALL RETAIL SHOP AND THEY WANTED TO HAVE A, UM, UH, A TASTING AREA, YOU KNOW, TO HOST EVENTS, NOT TO BE AN EVENT CENTER 'CAUSE THEY HAVE THAT OUT AT THEIR RANCH, BUT TO, TO MAKE SURE THEY COULD DO LIKE, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSIONS WITH CHEFS AND SO FORTH. AND THIS IS ACTUALLY A, THEY'RE IN A MIXED USE ZONE ACTUALLY, BUT, UM, I WORKED WITH ANDREW AND HIS TEAM TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, RANGE AND SPECTRUM OF USES ACTUALLY WAS ALLOWED. AND, UM, AND, AND THEY WERE, AND, AND PART OF IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE ANCILLARY AND NOT THE MAIN FOCUS. AND YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE I THINK, UM, THERE, THERE, THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW, UM, THAT TYPE OF COMPANY MAY NOT HAVE EXISTED. I MEAN, YOU MAY HAVE JUST HAD AN OFFICE WITH A DISTRIBUTION AND THINGS CAME IN AND, BUT NOW YOU NEED RETAIL AND YOU ALSO NEED SOME OF THESE EVENTS TO, IT'S A BRAND EXTENSION, IT'S A WAY OF, OF PROMOTION AND GETTING PEOPLE EXCITED AND THE STORY AROUND WHAT IS TEMPLE CREEK AND WHAT DO THEY REPRESENT. UM, SO THAT, THAT'S JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF, OF HOW, IN THAT CASE, IN PARTICULARLY, WE WERE ABLE TO BE FLEXIBLE. UH, AND I DON'T KNOW, ANDREW, IF YOU WANNA ADD ANYTHING TO THAT AND TO THAT PROCESS OF HOW THOSE THINGS WORK. WELL, I THINK IT, SORRY. YOU KNOW, WHILE, WHILE YOU'VE BEEN, BEEN SHARING THESE REALLY GREAT EXAMPLES, I'VE BEEN THINKING THAT THE PROBLEM THAT WE'VE BEEN RUNNING INTO IS THAT WHEN WE HAVE THESE BUSINESSES THAT ARE BLENDING ACROSS THE COMMERCIAL AND THE SORT OF THE COMMERCIAL AND THE INDUSTRIAL FAMILIES OF, OF USES, THAT'S WHERE WE RUN INTO THE PROBLEM BECAUSE WE'RE BEING, OUR, OUR ZONING DISTRICTS FROM COMMERCIAL TO BUSINESS PARK TO INDUSTRIAL ARE TOO DISCREET AND THEY'RE TOO SPECIFIC TO THAT CLASS OF USES. AND SO MAYBE WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS, IS SORT OF HAVE, LOOK AT THE, THE USE TABLES FROM ONE LENS OF WE WANT TO REDUCE THE PERMIT REQUIREMENT. AND CERTAINLY THERE'S EXAMPLES WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE NEED TO DO THAT, OR WE, WE THINK THAT IT'S BEST TO DO THAT. BUT THEN ON THE OTHER HAND, WE WANT TO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR MORE COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL USES TO JOIN TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, IN THE SAME OPERATION AND, AND IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT SO THAT WE HAVE MORE FLEXIBILITY. AND IN THOSE CASES, MAYBE WE, WE CAN RESERVE THE RIGHT TO USE A MINOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. I THINK PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, WE, WE MENTIONED IN THE SLIDES THE FIRST THING ACROSS THE BOARD THE FIRST THING WE WANNA DO IS DESIGNATE WHETHER IT'S A MINOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT OR A MAJOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THAT CLARIFICATION ALONE REDUCES RISK. AND IT ALSO MAKES THE DECISION LESS ARBITRARY BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS COULD COME IN [03:15:01] ONE YEAR AND YOU THINK THROUGH IT AND YOU ANALYZE IT AND YOU MAKE A DECISION AND SAY, OH, IT'S A MINOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. BUT THEN A YEAR LATER, A VERY SIMILAR BUSINESS COULD COME IN AND YOU MIGHT DECIDE THAT IT'S A MAJOR, YOU KNOW, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S JUST HUMAN NATURE. AND THAT'S WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU ALLOW INTERPRETATION TO HAPPEN, THEN THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. SO MAYBE WHAT WE COULD DO BE BE VERY CLEAR ON THE LEVEL OF PERMIT REQUIRED, EXCEPT THAT THE DIRECTOR ALWAYS HAS THE AUTHORITY TO ELEVATE. RIGHT? THEN WE COULD START TO ALLOW MORE USES IN ACROSS OUR ZONING DISTRICTS, OUR COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, GIVE THEM A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUIREMENT, BUT WE'RE GAINING FLEXIBILITY AND, AND SEE HOW THAT WORKS FOR US. UH, AND THEN, AND THEN THE THIRD PASS WOULD BE WHERE WITH THE EXISTING USES, WHERE WE ARE REQUIRING CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS AND WE KNOW THAT IT'S PROHIBITIVE, THEN WE REDUCE TO PERMITTED USES, UM, AND RELY ON PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. SO I, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T WANT YOU TO GIVE ME LIKE, THIS USE GETS THIS, THIS USE GETS THAT. RIGHT? WE, FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T WANNA BE HERE THAT LONG, BUT, BUT SECOND, IF WE CAN THINK ABOUT RULES, THEN, THEN THE TEAM CAN APPLY THE RULES AND COME BACK WITH SOME VERY, I THINK, THOUGHTFUL, UM, PATTERNS AND APPROACHES THAT, THAT WOULD BE, WOULD MAKE SENSE. I THINK THAT SOUNDS GOOD. ANY CLOSING COMMENTS ON THE CUP GRID? OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD AND STOP, SIR. ALL RIGHT. DO WE WANNA GET OURSELVES BACK TO SLIDE 17 THEN? IT SAYS WHAT STAFF NEED THE PERMIT LEVEL FOR SHARED PARKING SERVING MORE THAN ONE USE? MM-HMM . IN THE TOWN AND NEIGHBORHOOD CENTERS DIRECTOR APPROVAL, OR CONTINUE TO REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, UH, DIRECTOR APPROVAL SEEMS FINE TO ME. OKAY. WE'VE GOT SOME NODS. YEP. ACROSS, YEP. LOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY AGREES THAT MOVING TOWARDS DIRECTOR APPROVAL WORKS FOR US. LIKE I SAID, EASY. THERE WE GO. WE LOVE IT. NEXT, NO , UM, DID THAT ONE, UH, THERE'S THE FLOODPLAIN QUESTION RIGHT ABOVE ON SLIDE 16. I JUST, CAN WE GO BACK TO THE BUSINESS PARK? I'M REALLY LIKE, OH, I FEEL LOST. I'M SORRY. OR LIKE, THE, THE COMMERCIAL I FEEL REALLY LOST OF WHAT WE ACTUALLY JUST GAVE DIRECTION ON. IT SOUNDED LIKE STAFF IS GOING TO, GIVEN SORT OF THE, THE OVERARCHING, UH, OPINIONS THAT WE PROVIDED, THEY'RE GONNA TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THAT GRID AS OPPOSED TO US GOING INTO IT ON A, ON A GRANULAR LEVEL. THAT SOUNDS GOOD. UM, CAN YOU SHARE LIKE, WHAT YOU THINK YOU HEARD BACK WITH US, JUST SO THAT WE CAN ALL SORT OF GIVE THE THUMBS UP, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S FIVE THINGS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT YOU THINK YOU HEARD THAT YOU'RE GONNA TAKE BACK HIS DIRECTION. SURE. SO I THINK THAT THAT REVIEWING EXISTING, UM, ALLOWED USES WHERE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS REQUIRED, UM, IN A FIRST PASS, WE WOULD WANT TO QUESTION, DO WE NEED TO REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT OR COULD WE REDUCE IT TO A PERMITTED USE? IF WE FEEL THAT WE DO WANT TO CONTINUE TO REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THEN BE EXPLICIT ABOUT WHETHER THAT WOULD BE A MINOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT OR A MAJOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. UM, UNDERSTANDING ALL THE TIME THAT THE DIRECTOR HAS THE AUTHORITY TO ELEVATE FROM A MINOR TO A MAJOR. SO THAT MIGHT BE AN IMPORTANT TOOL TO KEEP IN MIND, YOU KNOW, UM, IF, AND MAYBE THEN WE DEFER DEFAULT MORE TO MINOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS WHEN WE FEEL THAT IT WARRANTS ONE, THEN I THINK THE, UH, THE SECOND BIG MOVE, OR THIRD BIG MOVE WOULD BE TO THINK ABOUT WHERE WE CAN ALLOW MORE COMMERCIAL TYPE USES IN OUR BUSINESS PARK AND INDUSTRIAL USES. NOT, NOT TO CREATE MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR COMMERCIAL TENANTING, BUT TO RECOGNIZE THAT MANY OF OUR INDUSTRIAL USES ARE BLENDING ACROSS SOME COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES, RIGHT. WHETHER IT'S TASTING ROOMS OR IT'S, IT'S, UM, HAVING SOME SORT OF RETAIL PRESENCE IN ADDITION TO A PRODUCTION ACTIVITY OR A DISTRIBUTION ACTIVITY IN ADDITION TO A RETAIL PRESENCE. SO JUST RECOGNIZING THAT THE NATURE OF THESE, UH, BUSINESS OPERATIONS IS CHANGING AND TO HAVE LESS [03:20:01] OF A WALL BETWEEN OUR COMMERCIAL USES AND INDUSTRIAL USES. UM, AND SO I THINK WE WOULD START THERE, IDENTIFY THOSE WHERE WE WOULD WANT TO DO THAT. THEN WE MIGHT SAY, OKAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, SINCE WE'RE STEPPING INTO THIS AND WE WANT TO BE CONSCIOUS ABOUT THE, THE CONVERSION OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, MAYBE OUR INCLINATION WOULD BE TO REQUIRE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. AND WE THINK THAT'S A SOUND DECISION, BUT WE DO A MINOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT BECAUSE THAT'S A LOWER LEVEL, UM, LESS COSTLY, LESS TIME CONSUMING TO REVIEW. BUT WE ALWAYS KNOW THAT THE DIRECTOR CAN ELEVATE IF IT SEEMS LIKE, UM, IT'S AN INTENSITY OF USE THAT WE MIGHT HAVE SOME UNIQUE SITUATIONS TO BE ADDRESSED. OKAY. UM, I GENERALLY AGREE WITH THAT, LIKE THE CONCEPT THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WITH LIKE, UH, ON THE HOUSING SIDE, MAYBE LIKE IF SOMETHING'S PRIMARILY INDUSTRIAL, LIKE, 'CAUSE I THINK WHAT WE DON'T WANNA DO IS SEE ALL OF OUR, LIKE HIGH VALUE REAL ESTATE, THE STUFF THAT REALLY PUMPS OUT THE, THE CASH FOR US RIGHT. TURN INTO STUFF THAT DOESN'T PUMP OUT CASH FOR US. RIGHT. BUT WE ALSO WANT TO, LIKE, WE SHOULD LOOK AT THE FLEXIBILITY TO ADD ANCILLARY ACTIVITIES TO THAT HIGH VALUE THING AS LIKE A REASON WHY WE ATTRACT INDUSTRIAL PEOPLE HERE. RIGHT. SO LIKE, IT CAN BE PRIMARILY INDUSTRIAL, BUT LIKE ADDING ADDITIONAL USES. IF YOU WANT TO HAVE AN ART STORE AND ALSO TEACH ART CLASSES, LIKE WE WELCOME THAT. WE WANT THAT. RIGHT. THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE. AND LIKE, I DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH, JUMP THROUGH EXTRA HOOPS FOR THAT. I WANT LET LIKE THAT TO BE LIKE, HELL YES. WE JUST, YOU KNOW, LIKE STAMPED AT THE COUNTER TYPE OF THING. AND I THINK THERE WE COULD DO MORE WITH OUR ACCESSORY USES AND, AND PAIRING UP PRIMARY AND ACCESSORY USES, YOU KNOW, AND RECOGNIZING SOMETIMES THE, THE SYNERGIES THAT HAPPEN BETWEEN, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TEACHING VERSUS THE, THE MILLING OR, OR THE DISTRIBUTION OR SOMETHING. I THINK THE, UM, WHAT'S THE FLOWER? UM, KEITH, KEITH GUSTO, CENTRAL MILLING. YEAH, CENTRAL MILLING. I THINK THEY GREAT EXAMPLE. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE DOING, YOU KNOW, DISTRIBUTION AND, AND PACKAGING AND SUCH AROUND THEIR MILLING OPERATIONS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THEY'RE TEACHING CLASSES AND THEY HAVE A RETAIL OPERATION AND, AND I THINK EVERYBODY IS, IS, UM, SEES THAT AS, AS A, A BUSINESS TO BE PROUD OF. YEAH. AND I THINK LIKE, MAYBE JUST, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY SORT OF STATED PURPOSE, MAYBE IT'S TOO LATE FOR THE GENERAL PLAN, BUT LIKE FLEXIBILITY AND USES AND ADDING ANCILLARY USES IS LIKE REALLY IMPORTANT FOR BUSINESS RESILIENCE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND SO JUST CAPTURING SOME OF THAT STUFF AND, AND IN THE SPIRIT WOULD LIKE, I WANNA MAKE SURE, UM, IS DONE IN THIS. UM, SO THAT FLEXIBILITY IS ALREADY IN THE GENERAL PLAN, WHICH WOULD GIVE US, UM, I MEAN, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A, A BLANKET MM-HMM . LIKE ACCESSORY USES WELCOME, RIGHT. TO, TO PROVIDE THE FLEXIBILITY. SO I THINK WE COULD BUILD THAT INTO THE ZONING CODE, UM, TO MAKE IT EXTRA CLEAR. YEAH. I THINK IF IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE TALKING A LOT ABOUT TACKING ON RETAIL AND EDUCATION IN MANY CASES TO INDUSTRIAL, YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE SORT OF SAYING THAT THERE'S A, A LITTLE MENU OF YOU COULD ALSO DO THIS AND IF WE CAN LIKE, FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT MENU IS BY ZONE AND MAYBE SEVERAL ZONES WILL ALL HAVE THE SAME MENU, AND THEN BUSINESSES IN THOSE ZONES WILL UNDERSTAND, LIKE, THESE AUXILIARY USES ARE GENERALLY ACCEPTED. UM, AND WE HAVE THE MECHANISM BY WHICH THEY CAN CONFIDENTLY MOVE FORWARD WITH THEIR HAIR-BRAINED IDEAS, UH, WITHOUT THE RISK OF GETTING MARRED IN A PERMITTING PROCESS THAT, YOU KNOW, DASHES AND OTHERWISE REALLY INTERESTING AUXILIARY USE THAT WE, IN MOST CASES, YOU KNOW, IN ALL CASES SEEM TO BE QUITE IN FAVOR OF. UM, BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERMITTING HOOPS BECOMES A TIME SUCK, BECOMES EXPENSIVE, BECOMES A RISK THAT, YOU KNOW, MAKES FOLKS SORT OF SHY AWAY FROM IT. YEAH. AND THEN NOW I REALIZE WHY I WANTED TO COME BACK TO THIS TOO. UM, LIKE ON THE, ON THE AREAS WHERE LIKE WE'RE REALLY STRUGGLING, LIKE I THINK OF, UH, YOU KNOW, EMPTY OFFICE SPACE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. LIKE, LIKE BRING US BACK A BOLD PROPOSAL, YOU KNOW, LIKE RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITIES OCCUPYING VACANT OFFICE SPACES. YOU KNOW, LIKE THERE'S A WHOLE MESS OF RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITIES ALONG NORTH MCDOWELL OR YEAH. NORTH MCDOWELL, RIGHT? AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS A VACANT OFFICE BUILDING, AND LIKE, WHY COULDN'T THAT ALSO BE CONVERTED TO A RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, BUT LIKE, BRING US BACK [03:25:01] SOMETHING BOLD TO FILL UP OUR, OUR VACANT SPACES, I GUESS IS MY, MY THOUGHT. UM, AND THEN THE LAST QUESTION THAT I HAD, AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GET TO THIS IN PHASE ONE, I KNOW IT'S GETTING LATE, UM, IS WE TALK A LOT IN THE GENERAL PLAN ABOUT 15 MINUTE NEIGHBORHOODS, RIGHT? AND A BIG PART OF THAT IS ACTUALLY ALLOWING NON-RESIDENTIAL USES IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, LIKE I LIVE RIGHT DOWN THE STREET FROM RAY'S. I LOVE IT. EVERYBODY LOVES IT. RIGHT? I WANT, LIKE, I THINK THAT A LOT OF PETALUMA WOULD LIKE TO HAVE RAY'S AS CLOSE AS I HAVE RAISED TO ME. RIGHT. UM, WHAT'S THE PATHWAY TO LIKE ACTUALLY REALIZING THAT AND HAVING, YOU KNOW, A SMALL ICE CREAM SHOP IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AND LIKE ACTUALLY ALLOWING FOR, YOU KNOW, NEW USES TO GET BUILT OR, YOU KNOW, CONVERTING RESIDENTIAL UNITS TO COMMERCIAL OR THINGS LIKE THAT. HOW DO YOU SEE THAT PLAYING OUT, I GUESS? WELL, IT'S A, IT'S A REALLY GREAT EXAMPLE. UM, I, I AGREE WITH YOU AND I THINK WHEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT THOSE, THOSE SORT OF THOSE CORNER STORE STORE ELEMENTS IN NEIGHBORHOODS, THEY WERE, THEY WERE SMALL SCALE AND THEY WERE INTENDED TO BE NEIGHBORHOOD SERVING, RIGHT? AND YOU WERE INTENDED TO TRAVEL TO THEM BY FOOT, TYPICALLY. AND OFTENTIMES YOU WOULD SEE THEM IN, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR STREETCAR, UH, NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE YOU MIGHT, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT TAKE THE STREETCAR INTO THE CITY CORPS, YOU KNOW, THE CITY CENTER FOR A DAY JOB, BUT THEN YOU WOULD TAKE IT OUT AND WALK A FEW BLOCKS TO YOUR, YOUR RESIDENCE AND STOP ALONG THE WAY AT A, AT A, A SMALL GROCERY STORE, A DELI OR SOMETHING. SO I THINK ALL OF THAT, I THINK THERE'S A SCALE COMPONENT THERE THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND. UM, BECAUSE WITH, AND, AND WE NEED TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH SQUARE FOOTAGE IS NEEDED TO BE SUCCESSFUL, RIGHT? TO FIRST TO BE ATTRACTIVE TO SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT WANT TO, UH, DO A CORNER DEVELOPMENT AND, YOU KNOW, SMALL SCALE CORNER DEVELOPMENT. SO WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, 2000 SQUARE FEET, YOU KNOW? SO YOU WANT TO BE SURE THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO, WHEN YOU DO START TO, UM, BUILD THE TOOLS TO ALLOW IT, MAKE SURE IT'S AT SCALE TO WHERE THE IT WILL HAPPEN. AND I THINK WE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH YET ABOUT WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. UM, AND THEN ONE THING WE GET TO IS, OKAY, WE'VE GOT A POINT ON A MAP THAT SAYS THIS IS A 15 MINUTE ACTIVITY CENTER OR, OR NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER, BUT DOES IT HAPPEN EXACTLY THERE? AND WHAT'S THE PROCESS FOR IDENTIFYING IF IT'S NOT EXACTLY THERE, THEN WHERE IS IT RIGHT TO BE, TO BE FAIR AND EQUITABLE TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS IN THE AREA? UM, AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE, WE NEED TO WORK THROUGH WHEN WE START HITTING THOSE 15 MINUTE NEIGHBORHOODS. I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT LIKE WE, YOU CAN'T SPECIFY IT, IT JUST SORT OF HAPPENS. YEAH. UM, AND, UH, I'M, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THINKING ABOUT HOW TO, HOW TO LIKE SEE THAT, UM, VISION MANIFEST ITS WAY INTO OUR, OUR ZONING CODE. UM, AND THEN THE OTHER ONE THAT ALWAYS BEFORE YOU, SORRY, JUST BEFORE YOU MOVE OFF OF THAT, WHEN IS THAT HAPPENING THOUGH? 'CAUSE WE'VE TALKED, YOU, YOU KNOW ME, I'VE SAID A LOT OF LIKE THAT STAR IS THERE, FEELS THERE'S ALREADY SOMETHING THERE. SO HOW WHE WHERE, WHEN ARE WE DOING THAT? I THINK THAT'S IN THE HEART OF PHASE TWO. PHASE TWO. OKAY. AND THEN THE FINAL ONE FOR ME IS, UM, PUBLIC SPACES AND PARKS. AND, UM, I THINK I JUST HAVE THIS LIKE, IT'S LIKE ONE OF MY LITTLE HUNCHES THAT IF WE ALLOWED THE LITTLE LEAGUES TO SELL, UM, SELL BEER AND HOT DOGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, LIKE THERE WOULD BE, UH, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO LESS FUNDRAISERS. RIGHT? UM, I THINK I, UH, THE MCNAIR GRANDSTAND COULD BE LIKE TOTALLY FUNDED TO BE REHABBED IF WE ALLOWED A SMALL BUSINESS TO OPERATE UNDERNEATH THEM, RIGHT? AND HAVE SELL COFFEE IN THE MORNING AND, YOU KNOW, BEER IN THE AFTERNOON OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND LIKE, HAVE PEOPLE JOINING THERE. UM, WHAT'S THE, LIKE, ARE WE LOOKING AT ANY SORT OF ALLOWING COMMERCIAL ON LIKE PARKS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? IS THAT, MAYBE THAT'S NOT A PHASE ONE THING BECAUSE IT CARRIES A WHOLE MESS OF THINGS, BUT LIKE, UM, WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK AT IT. I MEAN, I THINK ABOUT EVEN PRINCE PARK, UM, AT SOME POINT IN TIME, I THINK IT WAS THE GOLDEN CORRAL, I THINK IT'S WHAT IT'S CALLED OR USED TO BE CALLED. THERE, THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S HISTORY, UM, WHERE YOU HAVE LIKE CONCESSION, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING MORE THAN A CONCESSION [03:30:01] STAND TO HAPPEN, I THINK ABOUT MURPHY FIELD. UM, AND SO IF WE'RE THINKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT GOES BEYOND THAT, UM, IT WOULD JUST BE AN EXERCISE OF US LOOKING AT THE PARK ZONING DESIGNATION AND, AND CARVING OUT A PERMITTED USE THAT FITS THE VISION THAT THE COMMISSION HAS. AND THIS DOES ANSWER OR, OR RELATES TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT WE GOT, UM, THAT LISTS OUT THESE USES THAT ARE PROHIBITED BY AN OMISSION, INCLUDING MOBILE FOOD VENDORS. LIKE, WE'VE GOT ALL THESE THINGS THAT JUST AREN'T SPOKEN TO, UM, WHICH IT SOUNDS LIKE COULD FIT INTO TO THAT ASK ON PARKS. YEAH. I, I THINK THAT'S SORT OF WHERE I LOOK AT THE MOBILE FOOD VENDORS IS A GOOD ONE. WE'VE HAD A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT THAT. I KNOW GRAND CENTRAL WOULD LOVE TO DO MORE WITH MOBILE FOOD VENDORS, AND I THINK IT MAKES SENSE FOR THAT FACILITY THERE. UM, BUT ALSO I THINK LIKE, I, I'M GETTING TO THIS BECAUSE I THINK THE 15 MINUTE NEIGHBORHOODS BECOME MORE IMPORTANT AS WE START TO SEE MORE DENSITY HAPPENING AROUND OUR TRAIN STATION AND AROUND OUR, LIKE, AROUND THE AREAS THAT PEOPLE ALREADY COME TO. LIKE, AS MORE PEOPLE ARE THERE, THEY'RE GONNA BE LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT? I DON'T WANT TO DRIVE DOWNTOWN. I WOULD RA, LIKE, I WOULD LOVE IT IF I COULD WALK DOWN THE STREET. AND SO I THINK YOU CREATE MORE DEMAND FOR THINGS LIKE THAT AS YOU, AS YOU START TO, TO ADD MORE VIBRANCY TO THE AR OTHER AREAS. SO, UM, AND I JUST, LIKE, I LOOK AT A LOT OF THE SNACK SHACKS AND THEY LOOK ALL RUN DOWN AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND WE'RE CONSTANTLY HURTING FOR THOSE THINGS, AND YET WE'RE LIKE STARVING THOSE FACILITIES FROM HIGH VALUE SALES, RIGHT? LIKE, THOSE ARE HIGH MARGIN THINGS THAT IF WE, YOU KNOW, BOUND THEM TO DURING GAMES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST ROLLING IN CASH AT AT THAT POINT. AND I LIKE WOULD LOVE TO SEE OUR LITTLE LEAGUE FIELDS IN BETTER CONDITION AND WELL MAINTAINED AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO, AND I THINK WE'VE SPOKEN A FAIR BIT ABOUT THE SORT OF NEIGHBORHOOD MARKET, BUT THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT YOU COULD ENJOY IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD TOO. ICE CREAM SHOP HAS BEEN THROWN OUT. I WANT SOMEONE TO HAVE A DUMPLING SHOP. I'M JUST LIKE PUTTING IT OUT THERE. I WANT A PETALUMA DUMPLING SHOP, SOMEONE PUT IT NEXT TO MY HOUSE, PLEASE. , UM, . BUT LIKE, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT YOU COULD HAVE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD THAT, UH, UH, BEYOND, UH, BODEGA THAT COULD BE, UH, ADDING TO NEIGHBORHOOD VIBRANCY AND WALKABILITY AND 15 MINUTE NEIGHBORHOOD PERKS. AND, AND I THINK THAT WE COULD DO MORE WITH, UM, SORT OF SHIFTING FROM TEMPORARY USES TO MORE OF AN INTERIM TERM PERMIT WHERE YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU WANT TO TEST IDEAS AND YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO INNOVATE AND YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO ACTIVATE SOME STREET CORNERS BECAUSE YOU WANNA IMPROVE SENSE OF PLACE, RIGHT? AND, AND BUILD SOME EXCITEMENT AND HOPEFULLY GENERATE SOME, SOME LARGE SCALE DEVELOPMENT RESPONSES BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE SORT OF GAINING RENEWED INTEREST IN A SPACE. AND, AND THERE'S, THERE'S SPACES, I THINK, OVER IN THE DOWNTOWN STATION AREA THAT, THAT COME TO MIND FOR THAT. UM, AND, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT LOOSENING THE REINS UP TO ALLOW FOR AN INTERIM USE FOR A PERIOD OF ONE TO THREE YEARS, RIGHT? AND SOME, SOME TEMPORARY BUILDINGS, UM, THAT MAYBE, MAYBE MORE THAN, UM, A TRAILER, BUT, YOU KNOW, BUT, BUT CAN HAVE THE PRIMARY, THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF ACTIVATING SPACE, BUT, BUT NOT EXPECTING IT TO BE A LONG TERM USE. AND THEN I THINK THAT THAT CAN PLAY INTO OUR 15 MINUTE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTERS WHERE, YOU KNOW, PART OF THAT IS, IS CREATING THE FACILITY FOR MOBILE FOOD VENDORS TO COME IN AND DO COFFEE ON A WEEKEND, RIGHT? WHEN, WHEN PEOPLE HAVE THE TIME TO BE ABLE TO, TO WALK DOWN TO A, A CENTRAL LOCATION AND GET, GET A CUP OF COFFEE AND, AND SUCH. AND SO IT'S, IT'S A LOT OF, I THINK, EXPERIMENTATION AND INNOVATING AND, UM, CREATING THE FRAMEWORK FOR IT. BUT DEFINITELY WE'RE HEARING THIS FOR SURE. IT'S VERY EXCITING. ON THAT NOTE, DO WE WANNA ATTEMPT TO DEFINE MAKER MICRO? IS THAT A DIRECTION TO GO? THOUGHTS, PITCHES, ? WE SHOULD RENAME THIS. UH, DARREN KUSON , FINALLY, WE'LL DEFINE IT. UM, SOMEONE WANNA TAKE A PASS? [03:35:01] I WOULD WELCOME STAFF, LIKE MAKING A PROPOSAL. I KNOW YOU ALL HAVE THOUGHT MORE ABOUT THIS THAN ANYONE UP HERE IS, SO I'M A LITTLE STUNNED TO NOT SEE MORE IN THE, IN THE MAKER MICRO, TO BE HONEST. MM-HMM . FAIR POINT. UM, WE COULD CHANGE THE ACRONYM TO DR IF, IF YOU'D LIKE . UM, SO AT WHAT I WOULD, I THINK A GOOD STARTING POINT IS WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT, UM, I WOULD START WITH INDUSTRIAL, RIGHT? SO A LOT OF WHAT IS BEING CONVERTED, UM, THERE WAS THEMATICALLY THERE WAS THIS INTEREST THAT IT'S, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A LIGHT INDUSTRIAL. SO I WOULD, THAT'S WHERE I WOULD START IS OF THE PERMITTED USES IN THE INDUSTRIAL, UM, YOU KNOW, NOT LOOKING AT THE HEAVY SIDE, BUT I THINK WE COULD QUICKLY, WE COULD MAKE GOOD WORK OF JUST WHAT WOULD BE SORT OF CONSIDERED LIGHT INDUSTRIAL AND BLEND THAT WITH, UM, SOME OF THE MORE, I'D SAY POPULAR BUSINESS PARK, UM, INTERESTS. UM, AND I THINK THAT'D BE A GOOD STARTING POINT. SO DIET LIGHT INDUSTRIAL IS WHAT WE'RE STARTING WITH. DO YOU WANNA PULL THAT UP OR? SURE. OKAY. I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS VEXED US ON MAKER MICRO IS THAT IT DOES FEEL SO SIMILAR TO OTHER ONES THAT IT'S KINDA LIKE, WELL, WHY DOES IT NEED ITS OWN? UM, I THINK ON THE MAP, IT, IT HAS SERVED A PURPOSE OF, YOU KNOW, FILLING IN SOME OF THE SPOTS, ESPECIALLY POTENTIALLY FLOOD VULNERABLE. BUT, UM, RIGHT. I THINK THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD, IF WE, IF WE LOOK AT, SO THIS MIDDLE DECISION BLOCK IS THE, THE MAKER ZONE, THEN TO THE RIGHT AS THE INDUSTRIAL ZONE TO THE LEFT AS THE BUSINESS PARK. AND EVEN SOMETHING AS AS SIMPLE AS FURNITURE AND FIXTURE MANUFACTURING'S CABINET SHOP THERE. IT'S NOT THAT THAT ACTIVITY IS NOT ALLOWED IN BUSINESS PARK, BUT IT IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT IN OUR INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICT, BUT THERE'S NO SCALE TO IT. SO MAYBE IN MAKER MICRO IT'S PERMITTED BY RIGHT UP TO A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SQUARE FEET BECAUSE THERE IS A COMPONENT OF SMALL SCALE PRODUCTION. SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, MAYBE IN THAT SENSE, YOU DON'T WANT SOMEONE PRODUCING FURNITURE FOR, UM, A REGIONAL FURNITURE STORE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU STILL WANT IT TO BE A CUSTOM FURNITURE OPERATION, BUT YOU WANT THAT, THAT PERSON TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A REDUCED BARRIER OF ENTRY. AND THAT COMES WITH THE SCALE OR THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF IT. IF MAKE OR BY GROW IS, IS INTENDED TO GET AT SMALL SCALE, IS IT POSSIBLE TO JUST SAY ANYTHING AT A CERTAIN SCALE, UH, THAT HAS A TON OF APPEAL TO IT? ? I MEAN THAT IF WE'RE SAYING A, A MICRO BUSINESS, THAT TO ME SAYS YOU WANT A BUSINESS THAT'S SMALL. SO INSTEAD OF PUTTING OUT AN ENTIRE LIST OF BUSINESSES THAT WE THINK COULD POTENTIALLY BE MADE SMALL, JUST SAY ANYTHING THAT YOU COME UP WITH UP TO THIS SCALE THRESHOLD IS KOSHER. THAT SORT OF DEPENDS ON WHAT THE ACTIVITY IS, RIGHT? WHERE, WHERE THAT SCALE THRESHOLD IS DRAWN, RIGHT? THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SMALL BATCH MICROBREWERY AND LAGUNITAS MM-HMM . IS QUITE SIGNIFICANT. UM, AND I WOULDN'T SAY PERMITTING LAGUNITAS IN A, UM, MICRO BUSINESS ZONE WITHOUT A CUP, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE COOL, RIGHT? I WOULD SAY THE LOG ANITA SCALE EXCEEDS THE SCALE WE WOULD SET FOR A MICRO, RIGHT? SO, SO THAT'S LIKE BREWERY, RIGHT? BUT WHAT IS FURNITURE MANUFACTURING? YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THE SAME LIKE SQUARE FOOTAGE FROM A LEVERS WE HAVE TO PULL ON SCALE. IS IT PRIMARILY SQUARE FOOTAGE AND EMPLOYEE COUNT? ARE THOSE SORT OF THE, THE MEASURES THAT WE CAN ZONE IN ON A HUH? I DON'T WANNA REGULATE EMPLOYEE COUNT. OKAY. I'M ASKING. OR, OR EVEN LIKE SCALE, BECAUSE LIKE, OKAY, NOW THIS BUSINESS IS A NON-CONFORMING, LIKE, ARE THEY LIKE BUSINESS, LET'S THINK BUSINESS GROWS SMALL BUSINESS, WE WANT THEM, THEY'RE DOING GREAT, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY HIT AN EMPLOYEE THRESHOLD OR THEY HIT A SQUARE FOOTAGE THRESHOLD, AND THEN ARE THEY LIKE A LEGALLY NON-CONFORMING USE? OR DO THEY NEED TO FIND ANOTHER HOME IN SIX MONTHS? OR WHAT'S THE LIKE, I GUESS, OR THEY JUST NEED A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO EXPAND. I, I'D LIKE TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION. YOU KNOW, RECENTLY WE, WE REVIEWED SIX 60 LAKEVILLE, THAT MASTER CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPROACH. THAT WAS AN 11,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING, AND THE THRESHOLD WE [03:40:01] SET WAS 5,000 SQUARE FEET. AND THAT, THAT SEEMED LIKE IT RESPONDED TO THE INTENT, WHICH WAS TO BE KIND OF A BUSINESS INCUBATOR. UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I THINK SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE SUITES IN THAT BUILDING WERE EVEN AT 2,500 SQUARE FEET. SO THERE WERE SMALLER SPACES WITHIN IT. AND AT LEAST I, I ALWAYS FELT LIKE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS FROM A, A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, IN REVIEWING THAT PROJECT WITH THE TEAM, IT JUST FELT REALLY RIGHT. IT FELT LIKE A REALLY GOOD MODEL OF WHAT SMALL SCALE IS. AND, AND SO, SO THAT HOVERING AROUND 5,000 TO 10,000 SQUARE FEET OR SO SEEMS, UM, DOABLE AND MAYBE THAT WE COULD TEST WITH SOME OF THE BROKERS. UM, I KNOW A COUPLE OF BROKERS HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, SMALL SCALE BUSINESSES, UH, DO FEEL LIKE THERE'S A BARRIER TO ENTRY SIMPLY BECAUSE, UM, THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CODE OFTENTIMES WRITES IN A WAY, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURING, THAT IT EXPECTS YOU TO BE ESTABLISHING A PLANT, RIGHT? RATHER THAN TRYING TO GET YOUR, GET YOUR, UM, SORT OF BUSINESS UP AND RUNNING AND GET IT FIGURED OUT AND THEN DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO EXPAND AND GROW. SO MAYBE WE COULD TEST, UH, TEST THAT SCALE WITH SOME BROKERS AND SEE HOW THEY RESPOND. OKAY. I'M SHARE, YEAH, I'M, UH, I'M SORT OF WONDERING THE PURPOSE OF THIS COMPARED WITH OUR EXISTING LIGHT INDUSTRIAL ZONING DESIGNATION. AND IT FEELS TO ME LIKE THIS IS TRYING TO FILL A SPACE BETWEEN THE BUSINESS PARK DESIGNATION AND THE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL. AND SO LIKE, WHAT USES BEYOND A BUSINESS PARK ARE WE IMAGINING? BECAUSE LIKE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FILL HERE. UM, LIKE, I'M THINKING OF LIKE BUSINESSES THAT MIGHT WANNA MOVE INTO A, INTO A SPACE IN A BUSINESS PARK THAT HAS DIFFICULTY BEING FILLED BY OFFICE USERS. LIKE HOW CAN WE MAKE THAT USEFUL FOR A SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO GET INTO MANUFACTURING? UM, SO LIKE, WHAT WOULD NOT DISRUPT OTHER USERS OF A BUSINESS PARK SPACE, I THINK IS A GOOD QUESTION TO BE ASKING HERE AS OPPOSED TO LIKE, WHAT SORT OF BUSINESSES IS REALLY ABOUT ENABLING THE USE OF THESE, UM, DISTRESSED, UM, YOU KNOW, DISTRESS BUSINESS PARKS. I GUESS LOOKING AT THE MAP THOUGH, I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARILY ANSWERING DISTRESSED BUSINESS PARKS, JUST LIKE WHERE THIS ZONE IS APPLIED ACROSS, IT'S LIKE A LOT OF IT'S ALONG THE RIVER, SOME OF IT'S OVER BY THE OUTLETS MM-HMM . SO I'M NOT SURE IT'S QUITE THE BUSINESS PARK REVITALIZATION, ZONING. I THINK THE IDEA WAS TO GIVE MORE FLEXIBLE SPACE AND SMALLER SPACES TO THAT POINT THAT, THAT IF YOU'RE SORT OF WORKSHOPPING A BUSINESS, IF YOU'RE PILOTING A BUSINESS, IF YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING ON A SMALLER SCALE TO SEE IF IT WORKS, THERE JUST ISN'T A PLACE FOR YOU. AND I THINK THE 5,000 THAT WE TALKED ABOUT AT LAKEVILLE MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. AND JUST TO ANSWER COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE, LIKE, I THINK YES, YOU CAN OUTGROW MAKE OR MICRO IF YOU START YOUR, YOU KNOW, CUSTOM CABINET OR YOU KNOW, CUSTOM WOODWORKING BUSINESS AND YOU GROW FROM ONE PEOPLE TO TWO PEOPLE, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE LIKE STARTING A A YOUR OWN LABEL AT TARGET, LIKE, YEAH, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO MOVE OUT OF LIKE MICRO BUSINESS, BUT YOU, IT'S, IT'S NO LONGER APPROPRIATE FOR THAT ZONE. SO I I, I GET THAT. LIKE, WE DON'T WANNA LIKE PUNISH SUCCESS OR SQUEEZE PEOPLE OUT AS THEY GROW. UM, BUT IF THE INTENT IS TO KEEP IT FLEXIBLE AND SMALL FOR BUSINESSES TO INCUBATE, UM, THEN I DO THINK THERE IS A GRADUATION AT A CERTAIN POINT. OKAY. UM, YEAH. SOME OF THE BETTER SORT OF SMALL MICRO BUSINESSES THAT I'VE SEEN IN, IN OTHER COUNTRIES ARE MULTIPLE BUSINESSES SHARING A PARTICULAR SPACE WITH, UH, TENANTS COMING AND GOING AS THEIR NEEDS SHRINK OR INCREASE BEYOND THE NEEDS OF THE SPACE. UM, PERHAPS IT'S LIKE THE NOT RESTRICTING EMPLOYEE COUNT THAT, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE BROUGHT UP. LIKE ACTUALLY LIKE ALLOWING FOR MULTIPLE BUSINESSES TO BE IN A SPACE AND MAKING THAT FLEXIBLE AS OPPOSED TO, UM, LOOKING AT SPECIFIC TYPES OF BUSINESSES. LIKE MAYBE IT'S BEING REALLY FLEXIBLE ON THE TYPES OF BUSINESSES, BUT HAVING, UH, HAVING DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS FOR TENDENCIES OR THINGS LIKE THAT. YEAH, I THINK THIS GETS BACK TO THE QUESTION OF LIKE, WHAT IS OUR METRIC THAT CALLS SOMETHING SMALL BECAUSE 5,000 SQUARE FEET [03:45:01] FOR A BREWING OPERATION SOUNDS SMALL, BUT 5,000 SQUARE FEET FOR A EMBROIDERY BUSINESS IS MAYBE BIG, YOU KNOW, LIKE IT JUST SORT OF DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR PRODUCT IS. UM, WHICH IS WHERE I WAS LIKE GRASPING AT LIKE, OKAY, WHAT OTHER NUMBERS INDICATE A BUSINESS BEING SMALL? UM, SO OPEN TO IDEAS. I MEAN, WITH THE USE CASE THAT WE JUST BROUGHT UP, IT WAS REIMAGINING A SPACE THAT WAS A SINGLE USE PLACE TO NOW MM-HMM . BE SPLIT UP TO REALLY MEET THAT, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE USE MULTIPLE BUSINESS KIND OF AREA WHERE BEFORE IT WOULD JUST MEANT FOR ONE, EITHER MANUFACTURER, ONE, YOU KNOW, IN THE BUSINESS PARK SENSE LIKE A, A A, A SINGLE BUSINESS TO OPERATE OUT OF. BUT BECAUSE WE AREN'T FILLING THAT WITH THAT SINGLE USE ANYMORE, HOW DO WE THEN KIND OF SUBDIVIDE A LARGE EXISTING BUILDING OR, YOU KNOW, THE WAY THAT WE'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT ON, UM, NEAR THE RIVER OR THE OUTLETS, IT'S LIKE, WHAT ELSE COULD BE PUT IN A SPACE THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR MULTIPLE TENANTS TO POTENTIALLY COME TOGETHER AND CREATE A SPACE FOR THEMSELVES THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, A SINGLE LARGE MANUFACTURER TO REALLY DO THE SAME THING. UM, , THIS IS WHY IT GETS SO HARD TO DEFINE BECAUSE IT DOES, IT IS, SO WE'RE, WE'RE BUILDING FOR FLEXIBILITY, RIGHT? MM-HMM . UM, AND SO DEFINING WHAT THAT FLEXIBILITY IS THEN KIND OF COUNTERINTUITIVE TO WHY WE'RE EVEN CARVING IT OUT AS ITS OWN NICHE IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO, BUT IT, YOU'RE RIGHT THAT IT DOES NEED SOME SORT OF DEFINITION TO BE ABLE TO HOLD BOTH WATER IN TERMS OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMETHING BECOMES EITHER TOO BIG OR DOESN'T IT, IT'S KIND OF, UH, I, I HAVE A REALLY BAD ANALOGY THAT'S FROM LAW SCHOOL, BUT UM, IT, IT, IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW IT WHEN YOU SEE IT, RIGHT? MM-HMM . UM, YOU CAN DEFINE IT WHEN YOU CAN DEFINE IT, RIGHT? BUT, UM, IT, IT, IT'S HARD TO DEFINE IN THE ABSENCE OF SEEING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO, I MEAN, THE COLLOQUIAL, COLLOQUIAL DEFINITION I WOULD USE FOR A MAKERSPACE IS THAT, IS, IS A, IS A COLLECTION OF CREATIVE PEOPLE WORKING ON THEIR BESPOKE PROJECTS IN A COMMUNAL SPACE, MAYBE SECTIONED OFF. BUT LIKE, WHEN I THINK OF A MAKERSPACE, IT'S, IT'S A WAREHOUSE WITH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S THE POTTERY PERSON AND THE, AND THE WHATEVER KIND OF ART AND CREATIVE AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S SOME SERVICES THERE TOO, BUT THAT IT'S LIKE SORT OF SINGLE OPERATOR BUSINESSES IN MANY CASES, PASSION PROJECTS THAT ARE TRYING TO FIND THEIR FOOTING. AND WHEN IT COMES TO THAT SORT OF WHAT YOU WERE SAYING AROUND HAVING MANY TYPES OF BUSINESSES UNDER ONE ROOF, THAT DOES SEEM TO BE LACKING. LIKE WE DO SEEM TO NEED THAT IN OUR ZONING CODE, UM, TO BE AN OPTION. AND THE, THE PUBLIC COMMENT HAD NOTED COWORKING SPACES, THOUGH I WORK IN A COWORKING SPACE, SO I, I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT SOUND. UM, BUT YEAH, IF YOU WANNA GO AHEAD DR. THIS, THIS JUST FEELS LIKE A SITUATION THAT BEGS FOR DIRECTOR'S DISCRETION AND AUTHORIZING THE USE. 'CAUSE THERE'S SO MANY VARIABLES AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTANDING THE INTENT OF THE, THE, THE ZONING DESIGNATION HELPS GUIDE THAT, THAT DISCRETION. SO THAT WOULD BE, UM, I MEAN I FEEL LIKE WE, WE STILL NEED A STARTING POINT AND I, WHAT WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH IS WHAT I THINK WE'VE STRUGGLED WITH AS A COMMUNITY TO DEFINE THIS, RIGHT? WE WENT BACK AND FORTH. WHAT IS REALLY HELPFUL IN THIS CONVERSATION THAT'S, UM, HELPING ME SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEARLY IS IF THE VISION OF WHAT WE WANT A MAKER, SPA MAKER MICRO SPACE TO LOOK LIKE IS WHAT WE JUST WORKSHOP THROUGH. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE CURRENT DESIGNATION OF, WE SPENT SOME TIME IDENTIFYING WHICH SPACES THROUGHOUT THE CITY SHOULD GET THIS MAKER, MICRO, MICRO DESIGNATION. [03:50:02] LET US GO BACK AND SEE WHAT THE EXISTING ZONING, UM, LIMITATION MAY BE TO HIT THAT VISION. AND PERHAPS THAT'S HOW WE WOULD NATURALLY COME UP WITH A SET OF PERMITTED USES TO START FROM. THAT IS BROAD. I WILL SAY, UM, ONE CAVEAT THAT I, YOU KNOW, WE THINK ABOUT ARTS DISTRICTS THAT COME, UM, ORGANICALLY, I MEAN, EVEN COPELAND, RIGHT? 1 33 COPELAND LIFE ON ART. I MEAN, THERE'S THESE OLD HISTORIC MANUFACTURING SPACES THAT VACATED AND IT WAS CHEAP FOR CREATIVE INDUSTRY TO COME. AND SO I'M ALWAYS WARY OF, UM, OFTENTIMES IF YOU DO TOO MUCH, UM, IT HAS THE OPPOSITE EFFECT, RIGHT? AND SO THAT'S KIND OF WHY WE GOT TO THE WAREHOUSE. LIKE WE WANTED TO NOT TOUCH THE WAREHOUSE DISTRICT. UM, SO I THINK WITH THOSE PARAMETERS IN MIND, I JUST OFFER THAT UP AS ONE WAY, UM, TAKING THE FEEDBACK THAT WE'VE HEARD SO FAR, UM, TO REALLY GO BACK AND LOOK, 'CAUSE MOST OF IT, I BELIEVE IS INDUSTRIAL, UM, THAT'S BEING RE-DESIGNATED. SO LET'S GO BACK AND LOOK WHAT WITHIN INDUSTRIAL, UM, ARE WE NOT ALLOWING TO HELP FACILITATE THIS VISION OF MICRO MAKER? AND, AND I WOULD ADD THE CONVERSATION AND, AND SORT OF JUST THINKING THROUGH IT SITTING HERE, WE BROUGHT UP THE, EXCUSE ME, THE EXAMPLE OF HERITAGE SALVAGE AND THE CHALLENGE OF FINDING A SPACE IN A ZONING DISTRICT THAT WOULD ALLOW HIM TO DO EVERYTHING THAT HE DOES, RIGHT? AND TWO OF THE SPACES, ONE DOWN HERE ON LAKEVILLE HIGHWAY AND ONE UP HERE ON PETALUMA BOULEVARD NORTH THAT WE LOOKED AT, WHICH WOULD'VE WORKED FOR HIM UNDER THE CURRENT ZONING CODE, REQUIRED A REZONING IN ORDER TO GET HIS SPACE IN THERE. BUT IF WE WRITE THIS MAKER MICRO THE RIGHT WAY, THEN WE COULD CONCEIVABLY IT COULD BE A PERMITTED USE. SO I THINK IF WE, IF WE SORT OF HOLD THAT IN MIND, AND, AND THEN, UM, IF I GO BACK TO THE SLIDE, WHAT THE ZONE IS FOR, TO AREAS SUPPORTING LOCAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY AND TOURISM, AND THAT WAS A BIG THING WAS, WAS HOW HERITAGE SALVAGE IS BOTH LOCAL ECONOMIC ACTIVITIES, YOU KNOW, LOCAL OWNED BUSINESS, BUT THERE'S A TOURISM COMPONENT TO IT, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT IT'S AN ATTRACTOR FOR PEOPLE WHO COME, UM, FOR THAT PARTIC FOR THAT PARTICULAR REASON, APPROPRIATE FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL USES OTHER THAN HEAVY INDUSTRIAL, INCLUDING SMALL SCALE PRODUCTION. SO I THINK MAYBE IF WE HOLD THAT EXAMPLE AND, AND GO BACK AND, AND REWORK THE DEFINITION AS WELL AS, AS I LIKE COMMISSIONER RENEWALS, YOU'LL LOOK FOR SOME OPPORTUNITY FOR DIRECTOR DISCRETION THERE. UM, WE CAN GET TO A FUNCTIONAL DEFINITION AND, AND A WAY OF REGULATING IT. THAT, THAT I THINK STARTS TO CREATE THE, THE, THE, THE FRAMEWORK THAT WE'RE ENVISIONING. I MEAN, I ISN'T, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS PROVIDE A REGULATORY FRAMEWORK FOR WHAT IN THE PAST HAS BEEN ESSENTIALLY ILLEGAL USE OF SPACE THAT HAS DEVELOPED BECAUSE OF THE PRICE OF THE THING THAT WAS DONE. THAT'S A GOOD WAY OF THINKING ABOUT IT, RIGHT? SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, UH, WAREHOUSE USE IN OAKLAND OR LIKE BROOKLYN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO DO THAT WITH A SPACE, BUT INTENTIONALLY AS OPPOSED TO WHAT HAPPENED JUST OUT OF NECESSITY AND KIND OF IN A CLANDESTINE NOT TOTALLY BY THE BOOKS MANNER. SO YEAH, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT LEGIT AND NOT JUST LIKE A BANDIT BUSINESS. YEAH. LIKE THERE'S NOT THAT MANY SPACES THAT ARE ZONE MAKER MICRO IN THE, ON THE ZONING MAP. TWO OF THE LARGEST ONES ARE IN THE UPSTREAM AND DOWNSTREAM RESILIENCE AREAS, RIGHT? SO WE WERE BASICALLY TRYING TO REDUCE THE IMPACTS ALONG OUR RIVER. LIKE THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIG AREAS, LIKE THE TWO LARGEST AREAS FOR SURE. AND THEN THERE'S LIKE THE PETALUMA BOULEVARD NORTH BY CINE, BARBARA AVENUE, BUT, AND THEN MAYBE A COUPLE OTHER SMALL ONES, BUT THE TWO LARGEST AREAS BY FAR ARE THE, WHAT WAS THE, THE JOHNSON PROPERTY UP IN THE, THE NORTH RIVER AREA WHERE RAINIER GOES UNDER AND DOWN AT THE SOUTH END ON LAKEVILLE, UM, WHERE BAYWOOD [03:55:01] HITS INTO LAKEVILLE. THOSE ARE LIKE, IT FEELS LIKE WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO WAS, I MEAN, PROVIDE SOMETHING THAT'S A LESS INTENSE USE THERE, BUT NOT MAKE IT A TAKINGS FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER, BUT ALSO NOT, YOU KNOW, STACK A BUNCH OF STUFF IN, IN FLOOD PRONE AREAS, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT IT FEELS LIKE WHEN I LOOK AT THE MAP RIGHT NOW. UM, AND SO, UM, I THINK WE DO NEED TO DO SOME DEFINITION, UM, LIKE IN THOSE AREAS, I DON'T SEE WAREHOUSES GETTING BUILT FOR WHAT WOULD BE NON-CONFORMING USES ANYWHERE ELSE. LIKE, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT YOU'RE GONNA BUILD A WAREHOUSE IN LIKE, IN THAT SORT OF A FLOOD PRONE AREA. IT IS JUST NOT, IT'S AN MAYBE SOMETHING LIKE A HERITAGE SALVAGE COULD WORK WITH A, YOU KNOW, SMALL OFFICE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT LIKE, IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE WE WERE PLANNING FOR THESE LITTLE LIKE MAKERS ALLEY TYPE OF THING THE WAY WE HAVE WITH THE NORTH SPECIFIC PLAN OR SOMETHING. I KNOW IN THAT CASE, WOULDN'T IT ALSO FALL, I MEAN, IN POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT FOR THAT LAND, FOR EXAMPLE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMEONE WHO IS THEN SO RELIANT UPON, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY WITH THE FLOOD ZONE POTENTIAL BEING LIKE, YEAH, YOU WOULDN'T BUILD A GIANT PLANT THERE BECAUSE OF THE POTENTIAL TO FLOOD AND THEN YOU WOULD LOSE, HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, MANY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PRODUCT VERSUS, YOU KNOW, A PRETTY FLEXIBLE UTILIZATION OF THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE A SMALL SCALE OPERATION THAT THE POTENTIAL IMPACT THEN ON YOUR BUSINESS WOULD ALSO BE MINIMAL AS WELL. OR IS THAT ASSUMPTION? I MEAN, THIS WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FLOOD, UM, IMPLICATIONS IN THIS AREA WAS LIKE, WELL, I KNOW WE DON'T WANNA PUT HOMES IN THE FLOOD ZONE, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANNA PUT SOMEONE'S LIKE THEIR BUSINESS THAT'S THEIR BABY IN THE FLOOD ZONE EITHER. UM, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S, I I GUESS THAT'S SORT OF A PART OF THE DISCLOSURES AND, AND YOU MAYBE GET A CHEAPER SPACE BECAUSE OF IT, BUT, UM, YEAH. IS IT HELPFUL TO JUST LIST OFF SOME USES OR SQUARE FOOTAGE PAIRED WITH USES? OR IS EVERYONE HERE JUST RELUCTANT TO PUT IT IN A BOX OR TO FIND 'EM, PUT A BOX AROUND IT AND LIMIT THOSE USES? GO FOR IT. I MEAN, ARTIST STUDIO, LIGHT INDUSTRIAL USE UP TO A SQUARE FOOTAGE OF 5,000. UM, I COULD SEE CLASSES SHARED CATERING OR KITCHEN USES BREWERIES, MICRO BREWERIES, DISTILLERIES UP TO X SQUARE FEET, 5,000. ANYONE ? YEAH, I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE GET BACK INTO THE AB OF, OF WHAT'S ALREADY IN LIGHT INDUSTRIAL OR, OR BUSINESS PARK. SO THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT ENOUGH DISTINCTION, BUT, UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE STAFF IS GONNA WORK ON SORT OF CONSIDERING WHAT, WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE MISSING MIDDLE OF INDUSTRIAL OR THE MISSING MICRO OF INDUSTRIAL TO UH, UH, HELP US SORT OF BACK OUR WAY INTO LIKE, WHAT, WHAT HAS THE MARKET NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO IN THE ZONES WE ALREADY HAVE IF WE ARE NOW MAKING A BRAND NEW ZONE TO TRY AND HELP FILL THAT NEED. UM, AND IF IT DOES TURN OUT THAT HAVING A LAUNDRY LIST OF BUSINESSES THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOME ARE INDUSTRIAL, SOME ARE BUSINESS PARK AND SOME ARE NOWHERE , UM, THEN, THEN THAT CAN BE A WAY TO GO. IT FEELS LIKE THE USE IS AT LEAST AN I I WORK IN THE FOUNDRY AND I KNOW A LOT OF TENANTS THERE AND ADJACENT TO US IN THE WAREHOUSES. LIKE INDUSTRIAL'S ALWAYS A HOT TOPIC. LIKE WE, I WAS JOKING WITH BILL THE OTHER DAY, LIKE STEEL MANUFACTURERS ARE PROHIBITED IN THE FOUNDRY WHARF, . THAT'S KIND OF CRAZY . SO, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF LIKE BRINGING BACK THE SMALL SCALE ARTISAN THAT FALLS UNDER INDUSTRIAL FEELS LIKE THIS IS LIKE PURPOSE BUILT FOR THAT EXACT THING. SO HOW IS FOUNDRY WORK SOUND? YEAH. SMART. OH YEAH. SMART CODE. SO IT'S LIKELY T FIVE, T FOUR OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. ALL RIGHT. WHICH WE WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVISIT AS PART OF THE SMART. WAIT. ANYTHING MORE ON MAKE MICRO OR ANY EXPLICIT QUESTIONS FROM STAFF [04:00:01] ON WHERE YOU'VE GOT THE DIRECTION? NO, I THINK THIS HAS BEEN REALLY HELPFUL. WE CAN COME, WE CAN COME BACK WITH SOMETHING. OKAY. WHAT'S LEFT? UM, WE'VE GOT SOME, TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF WHERE THE COMMISSION WOULD BE ON, UM, DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, ESPECIALLY FOR RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS. UM, AND LET ME BRING THIS OVER 'CAUSE I THINK THIS TABLE CAPTURES IT PRETTY, UM, CONCLUSIVELY. SO THESE ARE, UH, OUR RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS GOING FROM LOWEST DENSITY, UH, UP TO HIGHEST DENSITY. AND THEN, UM, WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT, I SHARED ABOUT THE NEEDING TO ADJUST THE MINIMUM WIDTHS AND DEPTHS AT CERTAIN, UM, I THINK WE'RE HERE AT THE RES, THE, THE LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AND THE DIVERSE LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, WE'VE GOTTA ADJUST THAT TO BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE 2,800 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM LOT SIZE. WHERE WE REALLY START TO SEE SOME IMPACTS THEN IS WHEN WE GET INTO, UH, A 20 FOOT FRONT SETBACK, 15 FOOT FRONT SETBACK HERE IN THESE TWO ZONING DISTRICTS, 20 FOOT AND 15 FOOT REAR SETBACKS, UM, AND SO FORTH. SO IF, IF, UM, IF THE GOAL IS TO INCREASE, YOU KNOW, TO, TO REDUCE OR MAKE, MAKE DEVELOPMENT FEASIBLE, I GUESS, SO GOING BACK TO THE THREE THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT, PERMISSIONS, PROCESS AND FEASIBILITY, THEN BY REDUCING SOME OF OUR SETBACKS, UM, WE WOULD CREATE BE CREATING MORE SPACE FOR DEVELOPMENT ON THE, ON THE PARCEL AND, UM, INCREASING THE, THE POTENTIAL FEASIBILITY FOR A PROJECT. SO I THINK TO GET A SENSE OF, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD DO TEST FITS IF WE DO CHANGE THESE, UM, SETBACKS AND SUCH, UH, AND TO GET A SENSE OF THE COMMISSION'S FEELING ON AND DIRECTION ON WHAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE HERE. IS, IS IT JUST THAT THE, UM, CLOSED CAPTIONS ARE COVERING FAR OR AS FAR NOT ON THIS CHART. OH, IT'S NOT ON THIS CHART YET. NOT YET BECAUSE WOULDN'T FAR DO ENOUGH TO ENSURE SETBACKS ARE OF A ACCEPTABLE RATIO? WELL, NOT NECESSARILY, YEAH. YEAH. NOT NECESSARILY. UM, OR NOT ENOUGH, BUT DO SOMETHING. AND I THINK IF WE, IF, YOU KNOW, IF WE LOOK HERE, OUR SETBACK, OUR INTERIOR SIDE SETBACKS FOR PRIMARY STRUCTURES AND FROM LOW DENSITY TO HIGH DENSITY, YOU KNOW, OUR MAX IS FIVE FEET. THAT'S NOT A VERY DEEP INTERIOR SIDE SETBACK IN A RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT. OUR REAR SETBACKS AT 20 FEET, 15 FEET, UM, YOU KNOW, TRENDING DOWNWARD AS WE GO TO HIGHER DENSITY. BUT, UM, I, I REALLY SEE, I FEEL LIKE IT'S OUR FRONT, OUR SIDE, OUR CORNER STREET SIDE, AND THEN OUR, UM, REAR SETBACKS. DO WE HAVE A DESIGN STANDARD DICTATING GARAGE LOCATIONS, SAY ON DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. LIKE, YOU KNOW, REDUCING THE FRONT YARD SETBACK, I THINK IN A LOT OF JURISDICTIONS GOES WELL WITH ALSO KIND OF ENFORCING THAT A GARAGE IS SETBACK, UH, FROM THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOME. WELL, I THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU SEE THIS GARAGE FRONTIER, UH, AT A MINIMUM OF 20 FEET BACK. AND THEN THAT ALLOWS FOR THE PARKING OF A VEHICLE SORT OF OUTSIDE OF THE SIDEWALK. ONE THING THAT WE COULD DO HERE IS, IS KEEP THE GARAGE FRONT SET BACK AT 20 FEET, BUT THEN ADD A POLICY THAT SAYS, OR THREE TO FIVE FEET. SO YOU EITHER HAVE ENOUGH TO PARK A VEHICLE IN FRONT OF YOUR GARAGE OR YOU DON'T ALLOW ENOUGH SPACE AT ALL. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW? YEAH. THEN IF WE DID THAT, THEN WE START GETTING INTO SORT OF THINKING ABOUT WHERE WE ESTABLISH OUR FRONT SETBACK. RIGHT? RIGHT. WHAT I THOUGHT YOU WERE GETTING AT WAS LIKE THE GARAGE FRONT BEING DEEPER THAN THE FRONT FIRST OFF. LIKE I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE GARAGE FRONT SETBACK IS. ENFORCING A MINIMUM OF THE FRONT YARD SETBACK OR EVEN FURTHER, UM, YOU KNOW, AND SO I THINK WE COULD STIPULATE A RELATIONSHIP THE GARAGE HAS TO THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOME OR A MINIMUM X FEET LENGTH TO ALLOW FOR OFF STREET PARKING AS WELL. YEAH. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE COULD, LET'S SAY JUST FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT, WE'RE IN, UM, MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT, AND WE SAY, YOU KNOW, HERE FOR EXAMPLE, [04:05:02] MAYBE FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT SOLELY WE REDUCE FRONT SET BACK TO FIVE FEET, THEN WE WOULD SAY WE KEEP THE GARAGE AT 20 FEET, OR WE ALLOW THE GARAGE TO COME DOWN TO FIVE FEET AS WELL, RIGHT? MM-HMM . I MEAN, SO JUST FOR THINKING ABOUT IT, THAT THERE ARE GARAGE CONFIGURATIONS THAT ALLOW FOR BOTH TO HAPPEN, WHERE THE ENTRYWAY IS NOT WHAT FACES THE SIDEWALK OR THE ROADWAY MM-HMM . RIGHT? SO YOU DRIVE AROUND AND IT'S LIKE AN L-SHAPED VERSION THAT MEETS BOTH THOSE REQUIREMENTS MM-HMM . BUT YOU CAN BUILD THE GARAGE REALLY CLOSE TO THE SIDEWALK WITHOUT HAVING TO SET IT BACK 20 FEET. YOU STILL GET THE OFF STREET PARKING ALONG WITH MM-HMM . GARAGE AND FRONT WAY. SO KIND OF FITS BOTH OF THOSE DEPENDING ON HOW YOU DESIGN EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND IT. RIGHT? YEAH. I I WOULD SUSPECT THAT, UM, SMALLER LOTS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET, WE'RE NOT GONNA GET DESIGNS WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO USE UP YOUR SIDE YARD SPACE FOR A DRIVE TO BRING YOUR PARKING AROUND TO THE REAR. I, I WOULD IMAGINE WE GET A FAIR NUMBER OF FRONT LOADED GARAGES IN THESE SMALLER LOTS IF WE GET, IF WE GET A GARAGE AT ALL. RIGHT. UM, IS THE INTENT FOR YOUR QUESTION TO INFLUENCE LIKE TO, TO ENCOURAGE AND MANDATE LESS GARAGE FORWARD DESIGNS , BUT LIKE YEAH, I THINK IT'S, IT'S GREAT TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN OUR HOUSE IS LIKE EIGHT FEET, NOT EVEN EIGHT FEET, I THINK SIX AND A HALF FEET FROM THE SIDEWALK, AND THERE'S A REALLY CLOSE INTERACTION WITH SIDEWALK FOLKS. MM-HMM . I THINK THAT WORKS JUST FINE FOR PORCHES AND FOR LIVING ROOMS. IT DOESN'T WORK GREAT FOR GARAGE DOORS AT THAT PROXIMITY. SO IF WE ARE GONNA GET AGGRESSIVE WITH FRONT YARD SETBACK REDUCTIONS, KIND OF EITHER PUTTING THE GARAGES IN BACK AND, YOU KNOW, HAVING A COMMON LANEWAY OR SOMETHING SERVICING THE BACK OF HOUSE OR, UM, YEAH. SOMETHING TO CONTROL THAT. YEAH. I MEAN, I KNOW IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE EAST SIDE, THE HOUSES ARE VERY GARAGE FORWARD, , THAT'S SORT OF THE ONLY WAY YOU'RE LEAVING YOUR HOUSE IS FROM THE GARAGE AND THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF PORCH SITTING. YEAH. UM, DEPEND, BUT YOU GET A BIG FRONT YARD I GUESS TOO, RIGHT? YOU, BUT YOU GET A BIG FRONT YARD. YEAH. UM, BUT YEAH, IT'S LIKE ALL THAT WHICH YOU COULD SWAP ANYWAY. OKAY. I THINK WHERE THIS IS REALLY GONNA COME TO A HEAD IS WHEN WE VISIT THE PARKING, UH, RATIOS, RIGHT? SO IF YOU, UM, IF THERE'S A DESIRE TO DO A REDUCTION, THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF KEEPING THE SETBACKS, RIGHT? TO ACCOMMODATE WHAT WOULD PRESUMABLY BE LESS PARKING. UM, AND SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A, IT, WHEN WE HAVE THE PARKING CONVERSATION, UM, THERE'S A NATURAL CONVERSATION TO BUILD IN ABOUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE GARAGE SETBACK AND PLACEMENT. UM, BUT SOMETHING I THINK, YOU KNOW, TO ANDREW'S POINT, I, UH, RIVER, GOSH, RIVER BEND IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE. IT'S NEXT TO CLOVER MIDTOWN OFF MADISON. UM, IT'S PRETTY CLOSE TO, I MEAN, IT'S FIT, IT'S A NICE PROJECT. UM, BUT WHEN I THINK ABOUT HOW TO ACCOMPLISH THE, YOU KNOW, UM, MISSING MIDDLE 2000, 2800 SQUARE FOOT, UM, DEVELOPMENTS, THAT'S A GOOD STARTING POINT, RIGHT? IT'S, THEY'RE SMALLER SETBACKS ON THE SIDE FRONT IS PULLED BACK, YOU KNOW, PULLED IN PRETTY, UM, CONSIDERABLY, BUT IT STILL ACCOMMODATES SOME LEVEL OF PARKING, UM, TO HAPPEN THERE. AND I THINK WE WANT TO ACCOMMODATE FOR SMALLER THAN 2,800 SQUARE FEET TOO, RIGHT? SO LIKE 1123 PROJECT, THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE IN A SINGLE FAMILY ZONE IS LIKE 1200 SQUARE FEET, AND IN A MULTIFAMILY IT'S LIKE 600 SQUARE FEET, RIGHT? SO I THINK WE WANT TO BE THINKING ABOUT, UM, HOW TO ALLOW FOR, YOU KNOW, EVEN SMALLER, YOU KNOW, CONFI OR MORE INTERESTING CONFIGURATIONS EVEN THAN, THAN SOME OF THOSE, I GUESS ROW HOMES, THINGS LIKE THAT, RIGHT? ATTACHED TOWN HOMES. HOW DO THESE STANDARDS COME INTO PLAY WHEN LIKE, I THINK CREEKWOOD WAS LIKE A CONDOMINIUM DEVELOPMENT, SO THERE WEREN'T, THEY WEREN'T HELD TO THE SAME SETBACK STANDARDS, IS THAT RIGHT? I, I GUESS I JUST WONDER HOW ENFORCEABLE THEY ARE IN A SUBDIVISION [04:10:01] OR A DETACHED RESIDENTIAL PROJECT. I, I THINK CREEKWOOD WAS A PUD, SO YEAH, IT DEFINITELY GOT A CARVE OUT. THAT'S WHAT IT WAS JUST, YEAH. SO, SO THEY WOULD'VE BEEN ABLE TO SET THEIR OWN. YEAH. THAT SORT OF GETS TO THE, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S IN PHASE TWO OR PHASE THREE, BUT THE FACT THAT WE'VE GOT SO MANY PUDS AND SO MANY PCDS ACROSS TOWN THAT YOU END UP WRITING THESE VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT REGULATIONS THAT DON'T ACTUALLY APPLY TO A LOT OF PLACES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THEIR OWN LITTLE, THEY'RE LITTLE CITY STATE , BUT THEY ARE GOOD MODELS THOUGH, RIGHT? MAYBE, MAYBE THAT SERVES THE PURPOSE. SO WORK, WORK, WORK TO REDUCE SETBACKS, IS THAT I, YES, I THINK WE'RE OPEN TO REDUCING SETBACKS. OKAY, GREAT. YEP. ARE SIDE SETBACKS ON THE TABLE ALSO, OR DO WE JUST WANNA SET A GENERAL RULE? I MEAN, I KNOW IT PROBABLY ISN'T A POPULAR DECISION IF THEY'RE ALREADY AT THREE AND FIVE FEET, BUT ZERO LOT LINE, I DON'T KNOW, LIKE JUST GIVING PEOPLE OPTIONS FOR TOWN HOMES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. PROBABLY NOT AT A 2,800 SQUARE FOOT SITE, BUT AGAIN, IN THE SPIRIT OF DENSITY AND OR A FOGGY SHAPE. CAN YOU PULL UP SLIDE 27? YEAH, WELL, WE'RE STILL GOING TO GET INTO BUILDING OR UM, BUILDING CODE THOUGH. EVEN IF WE GO TO ZERO LOT LINE, WE STILL GET INTO BUILDING CODE SEPARATION REQUIREMENTS. YEAH. IT'D BE LIKE PARTY WALL. YEAH. BUT AGAIN, TOWN HOMES, LIKE JUST THINKING OF THE MODEL BEING SOMETHING WE MIGHT WANNA SEE MORE OF. I GUESS I JUST LOOK AT THESE AND I THINK THESE ARE GREAT PLACES. THEY, UM, SOME OF 'EM HAVE MORE SETBACK THAN OTHERS. UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE ONE ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT, THAT'S A, UM, I USED TO LIVE RIGHT NEXT TO IT. IT'S A, A GREAT SPOT, YOU KNOW, SO I WOULD NOT BE SHYING AWAY FROM CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR MORE, UM, MORE HOMES LIKE THAT. UM, AND I THINK IT'S, IT'S WORTH REITERATING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, THE SORT OF BOX THAT YOU'RE ALLOWED IN, BUT SOMEONE BUILDING COULD STILL SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? WE REALLY WANNA HAVE A LUXURIOUS FRONT YARD, SO, SO PUSH IT BACK. AND SO THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A GUARANTEE THAT EVERY SINGLE, UM, PROPOSAL COMES FORWARD WITH, YOU KNOW, ZERO OR THREE OR WHATEVER. UM, THE MARKET WILL LIKELY STILL IN SOME CASES ENCOURAGE FURTHER SETBACKS. UM, AND THE BUILDERS CAN MAKE THE, THEY MAKE THAT CALL, BUT WE'RE GIVING THEM A, A SLIGHTLY MORE GENEROUS DOTTED LINE WITH WHICH TO IMAGINE IN. AND I'VE SEEN ALSO JUST, UH, RESTRICTIONS ON THE AVERAGE DISTANCE SETBACK BETWEEN YOUR TWO NEIGHBORS AND INFILL SITUATIONS. I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN OUR CODE, BUT IN THE CASE WHERE WE DO ADJUST SETBACKS PRETTY AGGRESSIVELY, I COULD SEE THERE BEING A PROTECTION FOR NEIGHBORS OF INFILL DEVELOPMENTS TO KIND OF RESPECT THE AVERAGE OR RESPECT ONE OR BOTH LOTS SOMEHOW. HOW DOES THAT INTERPLAY WITH WHAT WE DECIDED ABOUT ADUS? I THINK ADUS WOULD BE EXEMPT FROM THAT. MM-HMM . THEY'RE NOT CORRECT. PERMITTED IN THE FRONT, RIGHT? THEY ACTUALLY CAN BE BUILT STATE LAW. YEAH, WELL, WHICH IS WE'VE NEVER SEEN IT HAPPEN BEFORE. WAIT, WHAT? WHEN DID THAT, IS THAT NEW? NO STATE. SAY AGAIN. RIGHT? IT'S STATE. MM-HMM . WHAT DID YOU SAY? IT'S BEEN, YOU CAN DO YEARS NOW. YOU CAN DO A FRONT YARD, YOU CAN DO A FRONT. WE JUST DON'T SEE IT VERY OFTEN. YEAH. UM, SO THE AVERAGE, WE CAN LOOK AT THE AVERAGE THING BY, I GUESS THE ONE THAT ENDS UP GETTING PEN PENALIZED ON SOME LEVEL IS THE FIRST ONE IN, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF BOTH YOUR NEIGHBORS ARE HAVE A 20 FOOT, THEN YOU'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE , RIGHT. UM, SO WE'D HAVE TO KIND OF THINK THROUGH HOW THAT, UM, HOW THAT WOULD ACTUALLY GET IMPLEMENTED OR, OR I, I DON'T THINK IT COULD BE, YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE AVERAGE. I THINK ONE APP COULD BE, IT, IT HAS TO BE AT LEAST HALF THE AVERAGE THAT IT'S, IT'S NOT GOING TO THE EXTREME OF, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN 20 FOOT SETBACKS AND NOW YOU'RE ALLOWED ZERO. BUT MAYBE THAT'S A LITTLE BIT TOO GENEROUS TO THE, TO THE, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD, YOU COULD INSTANCE, FOR INSTANCE, DO A A ZERO SETBACK, BUT THEN SAY THAT, UM, AND IT HAS TO BE AT LEAST 50% OF THE AVERAGE SETBACK OF THE, THE [04:15:01] FACADES ON THE BLOCK AND YOU GO INTO SOME SUBDIVISIONS, RIGHT? AND, AND EVERY SINGLE HOME IS GOING TO BE AT THE 20 FOOT SETBACK. AND SO THEN YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD BE SAYING YOUR SETBACK IS ZERO FOR THAT ZONING DISTRICT BROADLY, BUT IN THAT PARTICULAR CONDITION WHERE THE CHARACTER OF THAT CONDITION IS A 20 FOOT SETBACK, THEN YOU WOULD BE RE THEN YOU WOULD BE REQUIRING A 10 FOOT SETBACK. AND SO YOU'RE SORT OF FINDING THAT MIDDLE GROUND LIKE YOU'RE MENTIONING. YEAH. I MEAN, I AM BULLISH ON RELATIONAL MM-HMM . MEASURES THAT ARE TIED TO THE SURROUNDINGS AND NOT JUST A NUMBER THAT WE WRITE IN A CHART, BUT HAVE SOME BEARING ON THEIR SURROUNDINGS. BECAUSE THE REASON WE ALWAYS HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE SETBACKS AND OTHER CODE, LIKE IT IS NEIGHBORHOOD LOOK AND FEEL. SO IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO, IS LIKE ABOUT NEIGHBORHOOD LOOK AND FEEL, THEN LET'S CONNECT IT TO ITS NEIGHBORHOOD AND BY THE NUMBERS, BECAUSE IT COULD BE THAT YOU AVERAGE IT OUT AND ACTUALLY EVERYBODY'S GOT, YOU KNOW, A 10 FOOT SETBACK AND A FIVE FOOT SETBACK ISN'T SO OUTTA PLACE. MM-HMM . AND IT'S, IT'S, UM, I FEEL FAIRLY, UH, PESSIMISTIC ON THAT. UM, JUST LIKE SOME OF MY FAVORITE BUILDINGS AND USES AND THINGS LIKE THAT ARE VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IS LIKE I THINK ABOUT RAISE ZERO LOT LINE AND YOU GO TO THE VERY NEXT DOOR THING AND IT'S LIKE A 30 FOOT SETBACK, AND THEN THE, THE ONE NEXT TO THAT HAS, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY 70 FOOT SETBACK ON THE NEXT ONE AFTER THAT. AND LIKE, IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT THAT, LIKE YOU COULDN'T, YOU COULDN'T BUILD IT, YOU COULDN'T, YOU COULDN'T CREATE, UM, THAT, THAT SORT OF THING. AND UM, LIKE CORNER LOT FLOW COULD BE DIFFERENT. DIVERSE HOUSING OPTIONS, DIVERSE OPTIONS FOR HOMES MEANS THAT THEY'RE NOT ALL GONNA LOOK THE SAME. AND I THINK WE WANT TO INVITE THAT. UM, AND LIKE PART OF CREATING DIVERSITY IN OUR COMMUNITY IS DIVID IS PROVIDING DIVERSE HOUSING OPTIONS AND NOT EV LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE HOMES THAT WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF RIGHT NOW ARE HOMES THAT ARE BUILT OUT TO THE LOT LINE AND THAT, THAT HAVE THAT. AND THERE'S PEOPLE WHO WANT THAT LIFESTYLE AND THAT LIKE WALKING AND SITTING ON THEIR PORCH AND INTERACTING WITH NEIGHBORS AND TALKING LIKE THAT. AND I THINK, UM, WE WANT TO INTRODUCE MORE OF THE HOME, THE HOUSING THAT WE DON'T HAVE, UM, AS A WAY OF BRINGING, YOU KNOW, NEW LIFESTYLES AND, AND DIVERSITY AND ENERGY INTO OUR COMMUNITY. SO I'M, I RESIST THE IDEA OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, RELATIVE TO THE, THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY LIKE, UM, MAY NOT BE THE, YOU KNOW, IT, IT JUST, IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE IT'S, UM, FEELS FAIRLY ARBITRARY I GUESS. AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS CREATE FLEXIBILITY. UM, YEAH, I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE NUMBERS AND TABLES RATHER THAN YOUR IDEA, WHICH I APPRECIATE, BUT I, I'M TRYING TO IMAGINE HOW ONE WOULD ACTUALLY GO ABOUT IDENTIFYING WHAT IS THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR COMPARISON AND THEN MEASURING THE VARIOUS LOT LINES OR, OR THE VARIOUS SETBACKS AND THEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE AVERAGE IS AND THEN HALF OF THE AVERAGE. IT JUST FEELS VERY ADMINISTRATIVELY YEAH. CUMBERSOME TO, TO GET TO THAT NUMBER. YES. I TAKE IT BACK, I THINK, UM, I THINK HAVING A MIX OF SETBACK DOESN'T ACTUALLY HURT COMMUNITY. I'M LIKE NOW THINKING OF HAVING THOSE DIFFERENT DEPTHS AND IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD, UM, TO HAVE VARYING, UM, FRONT YARD SIZES ACROSS A NEIGHBORHOOD. I WOULD MAYBE JUST BE MINDFUL OF THOSE HOMES THAT ARE SET UP 20 FEET, 30 FEET BACK AND IF YOU REDUCE THE SETBACKS TO FIVE AND ZERO LOT LINE, SOMEONE'S GONNA GET A BIG OLD PARTY WALL, LIKE A SOLID WALL RIGHT ALONGSIDE THEIR FRONT YARD. AND THAT MIGHT START TO KIND OF WORK AGAINST, I THINK NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER AND JUST COMFORT. AND I'VE, I'VE USED CODES WITH JUST AN ADDED OBJECTIVE STANDARD THAT YOU HAVE TO MEET THE AVERAGE OF YOUR TWO NEIGHBORS NEXT DOOR. AND I, I HAVEN'T HAD TOO BIG AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROBLEM ON IT DOESN'T REQUIRE A SURVEY, A TAKE MEASURE WITH SOMEONE ON SITE JUST TO KIND OF GAUGE IT AND, AND MASSAGE IT. AND I FEEL LIKE HAS KIND OF BEEN A GOOD WAY TO ALLOW FOR AGGRESSIVE STANDARDS, BUT ALSO ALLOW SOME, SOME FLEXIBILITY TO SUIT EXISTING CONTEXT. SO I THINK WE COULD PRETTY EASILY, I MEAN, I JUST THINK ABOUT HOW PETALUMA HAS DEVELOPED. UM, [04:20:01] THERE'S ACTUALLY A PRETTY METHODICAL WAY. UM, I THINK IT'LL BE A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED WEST SIDE WHEN I, WHEN, WHEN I THINK ABOUT EAST SIDE, JUST POST WORLD WAR II, I MEAN, THEY LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME. SO I, I THINK I HAVE AN IDEA. I I THINK WE COULD DO SOMETHING WITH IT. OKAY. WE'LL GET, WE'LL COME BACK WITH SOMETHING . IT'LL BE AMAZING. AND CHAIR, I'LL JUST SAY IT IS 10 30. WE DON'T NEED TO TAKE A VOTE NOW, BUT IF WE WANTED TO DO THE NEXT TWO ITEMS WE WOULD, BUT WE COULD ALSO WAIT TILL COMMISSIONER SCHULTZ BACK THE NEXT MEETING. SO UM, I GUESS WORTH CHECKING IN HERE WITH STAFF AT HOW, OKAY, YOU'RE GETTING A LITTLE BIT OF AN AUDIT ON OUR REMAINING ITEMS FOR FEEDBACK ON STUDY SESSION. OH, I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION, QUESTION SEVEN, QUESTION SEVEN. YEAH. SO THE GENERAL PLAN, UH, LAND USE POLICY, 3.2 0.4, UH, DIRECTS US TO SET A MINIMUM LOT SIZE FOR RESIDENTS ZONES AT 2,800 SQUARE FEET. HOWEVER, IF WE GO TO, AND THIS IS A GREAT SLIDE, I THINK TO, TO SEE THIS. IF WE SET IT AT 2,800 SQUARE FEET FOR VERY LOW RESIDENCE, LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AND RURAL RESIDENTIAL, WE WOULD, WE WOULD REALLY CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS, UM, AS WELL AS POTENTIALLY CREATE, YOU KNOW, ISSUES RELATED TO TRAFFIC AND THINGS LIKE THAT ON WHAT ARE SOME VERY MINOR STREETS THAT SERVE THESE. SO THE WAY THAT WE'VE GOT IT RIGHT NOW, WE'RE APPLYING THAT TO LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL ON THROUGH, UH, EXCEPT FOR HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL WHERE IT'S ALREADY AT 1500 SQUARE FEET, BUT WANTED TO CHECK WITH THE COMMISSION ON, UM, ON WHERE THEY, WHERE THEY FEEL ABOUT THE APPLICATION OF 2,800 SQUARE FEET TO THESE TWO ZONING DISTRICTS. WOULDN'T THE MAXIMUM DENSITY WITH YOUR DWELLING UNIT PER ACRE SORT OF WELL, IT WOULD, YEAH, IT WOULD AFFECT, I THINK HOW YOU WOULD WANT TO SUBDIVIDE THAT, BUT, UM, LIKE THAT WOULD BE THE LIMITING FACTOR. NOT LOT SIZE WELL, ON THE NUMBER, I THINK ON THE NUMBER OF LOTS. YEAH. YOU'D END UP WITH A LOT OF LOTS THAT CAN'T HAVE HOUSES ON THEM. IF YOU DID 'EM ALL IN 2000, MAYBE CARVE OUT A 2,800 SQUARE FOOT PARCEL, YOU KNOW, FOR DEVELOPMENT OFF OF A, A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT AND, YOU KNOW, YEAH. WHERE ARE THE VERY LOW DENSITY UNITS ON THE MAP? I JUST WANTED TO CAPTURE THAT. UM, PROPERTY. MM-HMM . MAKE SENSE? IT MAKES SENSE TO NOT DO THE 2,800 FOR, OH, THIS IS AREAS WITH CHANGE, I NEED TO GO DOWN HERE SITUATION. HMM. SO RIGHT. TYPICALLY OUR HILLSIDE CONDITIONS AND THEN OVER ADJACENT TO OUR, UM, UH, COUNTY JURISDICTIONS. AND IT'S, AND IT'S REALLY A MIXED, A MIXED BAG. WE FIND. WE'VE BEEN FINDING, UM, THIS VERY INTERESTING, LET'S SEE IF I GO OUT, I THINK IT'S THIS PARCEL RIGHT HERE, AND LET ME TURN THIS OFF THEN. SO THIS, THIS PARCEL HERE, UM, WHICH THERE'S A PARCEL BOUNDARY LINE IT RUNS ABOUT RIGHT HERE. AND SO IT, IT'S DESIGNATED RURAL RESIDENTIAL. [04:25:01] IT HAS AN URBAN SEPARATOR PATH RUNNING ALONG HERE, WHICH WOULD PUSH THE DEVELOPMENT THIS WAY. BUT THEN WE COME OVER HERE AND ACTUALLY THIS DEVELOPMENT ALONG CLEVELAND IS MORE DENSE THAN WHAT WE WOULD BE, UM, ALLOWING FOR DENSITY HERE IN THE RURAL RESIDENTIAL DESIGNATION. SO IT'S, IT'S SORT OF, IT'S SORT OF CALIBRATED TO THE EXPECTATION THAT YOU'RE AT THE COUNTY BORDER AND THEREFORE IT'S GOING TO BE AGRICULTURAL LANDS OR VERY LOW DENSITY, BUT YET THAT'S NOT THE CASE AT ALL HERE ALONG CLEVELAND. UM, THAT'S EVEN MORE DENSE THAN, YOU KNOW, THAN WHAT WE HAVE WITHIN, UM, THE URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARIES. SO, UM, THAT, THAT MIGHT WEIGH IN WHEN WE LOOK SORT OF COMPREHENSIVELY AT WHERE WE FIND THESE, UM, RURAL RESIDENTIAL AND VERY LOW DENSITY, UM, PARCELS. THERE'S ALSO THE PARCELS THAT ARE LIKE ALONG BODEGA NEAR UP FROM WEBSTER THAT ARE VERY LOW DENSITY RIGHT NOW THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT VERY MUCH COULD BE, THEY DON'T NEED TO BE 20,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS. RIGHT? I GUESS THAT'S MY POINT. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. AND IT'S RIGHT ON BODEGA NEAR SCHOOLS AND OTHER THINGS. SO, AND I THINK WHEN WE COME UP HERE THEN TOO, WE GET BACK OVER IN THIS AREA. UM, SO THE ASK IS SHOULD WE WAIVE THE 2,800 LOT RECOMMENDATION? DO WE APPLY IT TO ALL RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, WHICH IS HOW THE POLICY IS WRITTEN, UM, OR DO WE HAVE A CONCERN HERE? DO WE KNOW WHERE THAT CAME FROM? SUCH A BLANKET NUMBER ACROSS ALL RESIDENTIAL? UM, DO YOU, UM, SO THE 2,800 CAME FROM THE MA, UH, SO THE MAJORITY OF THE CITY IS IN THOSE GREEN BUCKETS. MM-HMM . LOW DENSITY DIVERSE, LOW MEDIAN DENSITY. SO I THINK THAT WAS THE INITIAL APPROACH WAS JUST, HEY, HERE'S OUR HIGH OPPORTUNITY SITES. IT'S GONNA COVER MOST OF, UM, THE ELIGIBLE PARCELS, UM, AND IT'S GONNA MEET THIS WHOLE, YOU KNOW, 15 MINUTE CONCEPT. UM, AND THIS IS THE BEST PLACE TO CAPTURE IT. I THINK WHAT WE'RE IDENTIFYING NOW IS AS WE'RE GOING TO IMPLEMENT NOW THE GENERAL PLAN AND ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE ZONING CODE, THERE'S THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO LOOK AT THE FRINGE, THE EDGE OF TOWN, UM, AND IF WE FEEL LIKE IT MEETS THE OVERALL ARCHING OBJECTIVE FOR MORE HOUSING IN THE VLR RR AREAS, THEN THEN YOU WOULD PRESUMABLY CARRY THAT OVER. OTHERWISE WE, IT AS IS, I THINK THE AGRICULTURE ONES MAKE SENSE TO KEEP THE VERY LOW RESIDENTIAL DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. LIKE WHEN I LOOK AT THE AGRICULTURE STUFF ALONG PAULA LANE THERE, THERE'S SOME, LIKE, THERE IS, THAT IS REALLY OPEN SPACE AND AGRICULTURE MM-HMM . AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, WHEN I LOOK AT THE SPACES THAT ARE BUDDING BODEGA AVENUE THAT ARE VERY LOW RESIDENTIAL RIGHT NOW, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THOSE DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY'RE ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHERS. UM, IN TERMS OF THE TREATMENT AND I MEAN, LOOK ACROSS THE REST OF THE CITY, THOSE ARE JUST A FEW OF THE EXAMPLES THAT I SEE. BUT, UM, MEANING IT COULD GET THE 2,800, I WOULD SAY THAT RURAL SHOULD STAY AS IS IN VERY LOW, SHOULD BE, UH, TREATED AS THE, AS THE GENERAL PLAN POLICY STATES. YEAH. BUT TO CHAIR'S EARLIER POINT, THERE'S GOING TO BE A NATURAL, UM, LIMITATION BECAUSE OF THE LOW UNIT PER ACRE. RIGHT. SO IT'S SET AT 0.6 AN ACRE. SO EVEN IF YOU DID A BUNCH OF SUBDIVISIONS TO GET YOUR YEAH, I MEAN IT'S, YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET, YOU ONLY GET ONE OUT. IT'S ALSO A MINIMUM. SO IT COULD, LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A MINIMUM WHAT'S LOT SIZE? WELL, EVEN A MAXIMUM, WELL, THE MAXIMUM 2.2 ACRES WOULD, WOULD BE AT 1.2 IF, IF WE ROUND UP TO TWO WITH, WITH THAT. OH, FOR THIS ONE, YEAH. WITH THAT MAXIMUM DENSITY YOU CAN FIT, UH, 1.66, SORRY, WITH THAT DENSITY, YOUR MINIMUM LOT SIZE WOULD BE 1.66 ACRES. SO LIKE THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE FOR RURAL RESIDENTIAL IS REQUIRING A BIGGER LOT THAN THE DENSITY ALLOWS, THAN THE MAXIMUM DENSITY ALLOWS. UM, [04:30:01] SO I, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF DROPPING, DROPPING THE MINIMUM AREA IN VERY LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, BUT THE LOT SIZE DOES THE WHAT YOU WANT FOR DENSITY FOR RURAL RESIDENTIAL. HELP ME UNDERSTAND HOW STATE LAW OVERLAYS WITH THIS STUFF. WOW. RIGHT. I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING LIKE STATE LAW ALLOWS BUY RIGHT TO SUBDIVIDE. SB NINE ALLOWS YOU TO BUY RIGHT SUBDIVIDE AND BUILD, YOU KNOW, TWO LOTS ON EACH ONE. SB 1123 ALLOWS YOU TO TAKE 10 AND TO, TO DO UP TO 10 WITH A MINIMUM LOT SIZE. IN THIS CASE, IT'LL BE A MINIMUM LOT SIZE OF 1200 BY RIGHT? CORRECT. SO LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 1200, LIKE THOSE THINGS ARE, WE'RE ALREADY STATE LAWS PREEMPTING US ON PRETTY MUCH ALL THIS ALREADY. RIGHT. LET US, LET'S TAKE, LET'S TAKE THIS BACK AND MM-HMM . LOOK AT IT THROUGH THAT LENS. COULD I ASK ONE QUESTION ABOUT THAT? AND THAT'S, UH, FOR THE VERY LOW RESIDENTIAL THAT FALL OUTSIDE THE CITY BOUNDARIES ARE, ARE, IS THERE WATER SERVICE OUTSIDE THE CITY BOUNDARY? 'CAUSE SEPTIC, I MEAN, SEPTIC JUST REQUIRES A TON OF SPACE, RIGHT. AND THERE IS A, A LIMIT, THERE'S A REQUIREMENT OUTSIDE OF CAN, THERE WOULD BE A REQUIREMENT THAT, WELL, THEY WOULD HAVE TO ANNEX INTO THE CITY AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE YEAH. CONNECT TO CITY SERVICES. SO, BUT I THINK WHAT WE CAN DO IS WE CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AT STATE LAW, SEE WHAT THAT WOULD COMPEL US TO DO, AND IF WE FIND THAT THAT'S A GOOD STARTING POINT, THAT IT, UM, THAT IT MAKES SENSE THEN TO GO DOWN TO 2,800 SQUARE FEET, THEN THAT QUESTION'S OFF THE TABLE AND WE'LL WRITE IT THAT WAY AND BRING IT BACK TO YOU. AND I DO THINK SB 1 1 12 3 WOULD PREEMPT US, BUT SB IT DOES REQUIRE THE URBAN. SO I DON'T KNOW, WE'D PROBABLY HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT JUST AROUND BODE AND ALL THE OTHER KIND OF OUTLIER CITIES OR AREAS OF THE CITY IF THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED URBAN. RIGHT. IT'S PART OF THE CITY, THEREFORE I DON'T, WELL HAVE FUN LOOKING INTO IT AND REPORT BACK . SURE. I'M FEELING PRETTY GOOD ABOUT THE REST OF THE QUESTIONS. OKAY. I THINK WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT WHAT WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD FOR THE 15TH THEN. OKAY. YEAH. UM, THEN I'LL JUST PUT IN ONE MORE PLUG FOR THAT PUBLIC COMMENT FROM THE VACANCY PROJECT TO BE SURE THAT WE'RE, UM, INCORPORATING WHAT I THOUGHT WERE SOME VERY GOOD POINTS AROUND THE SORTS OF BUSINESSES THAT ARE POTENTIALLY EMITTED OR DISALLOWED BY OMISSION AND, AND ALSO THOSE SOME ABSOLUTELY. SOME OTHER POINTS THAT, UM, WERE WELL TAKEN IN THAT PUBLIC COMMENT. PERFECT. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THIS AGENDA ITEM? OKAY, THEN I THINK WE CAN CLOSE MEETING ITEM FOUR. AND THAT BRINGS US TO BACK TO MEETING ITEM THREE. SHOULD WE DO A QUICK VOTE ON WE WOULD NEED A VOTE. YEAH. OKAY. IF WE WANTED TO, CAN I GET A MOTION ON EXTENDING THE MEETING PAST 10, 30 OR 11? THAT'S FINE. YEAH. OKAY. A SECOND. I'LL SECOND. THANK YOU. AND THEN A ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE. COMMISSIONER ABNER? YES. COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN? YES. COMMISSIONER NOY GBA? YES. COMMISSIONER NEWELL? YES. COMMISSIONER SCH ABSENT. COUNCILMAN BARNICLE? YES. CHAIR MOSES? YES. IS, UH, POOF. GREAT. THEN WE'LL MOVE INTO [3. Administrative Action – Officer Nominations and Appointment of Chair, Vice Chair, and 2nd Vice Chair.] MEETING ITEM THREE, WHICH IS OFFICER NOMINATIONS AND APPOINTMENT OF CHAIR, VICE CHAIR AND SECOND VICE CHAIR. THANK YOU. THIS IS NOT A PUBLIC HEARING AND DOES NOT REQUIRE DISCLOSING ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS. AND I'LL INVITE STAFF TO PRESENT ON WHAT I HOPE IS A VERY SHORT PRESENTATION. . YEAH. I'M GONNA BE TAKING OVER THIS, JUST KIND OF GIVING YOU GUYS SOME DIRECTION ON THIS. UH, SO FOR MEETING NINE UP THREE, WE'RE GONNA BE VOTING ON WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA BE DOING NOMINATIONS, UM, AND, UH, APPOINTMENTS, UH, SPECIFICALLY FOR THE CHAIR, VICE CHAIR, AND SECOND VICE CHAIR. UM, THE WAY THIS IS GONNA GO, UM, IS YOU CAN EITHER SELF NOMINATE OR NOMINATE SOMEONE ELSE. IF, UH, SOMEONE IS NOMINATING YOU, YOU CAN EITHER ACCEPT OR REJECT THE NOMINATION. UM, WE [04:35:01] ARE GONNA BE FIRST DOING THE CHAIR, AND THEN WHEN THAT IS COMPLETED, WE'LL DO VICE CHAIR AND THEN SO ON WITH, UH, SECOND VICE CHAIR. UM, IF MORE, IF THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE NOMINEES FOR THE POSITION, UM, WHEN I CALL YOU FOR YOUR VOTE, YOU WILL STATE WHO YOU'RE VOTING FOR AND WHOEVER HAS THE MOST VOTES, UM, WILL BE THE PERSON WHO, UH, GAINS THAT POSITION. THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION, BECAUSE I KNOW WE'VE DONE IT MUCH MESSIER IN THE PAST. SO, JUST TO REITERATE, ONE PERSON NOMINATES AND THEN THAT PERSON ACCEPTS OR REJECTS, WE DON'T NEED A SECOND ON A NOMINATION. CORRECT. GREAT. CORRECT. EITHER THE, YOU'RE BASICALLY SECONDING YOURSELF. OKAY. SO THEN LET'S, OH, BY PUBLIC COMMENT, UM, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO COMMENT ON THIS ITEM. PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON. IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE SO ALREADY, PLEASE FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD TO ALL OF OUR RAGING AUDIENCE MEMBERS. THERE ARE NONE FOR THOSE OF YOU WATCHING BACK . UM, AND I'LL ASK THE CLERK IF WE'VE GOT ANY COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING. WE RECEIVED NONE PRIOR TO THE MEETING. OKAY. AND NO GHOST SPEAKER CARDS, I TAKE IT? MM-HMM . COOL. THEN LET'S, UM, MOVE TOWARDS NOMINATIONS. LET'S, UH, I'LL ACCEPT NOMINATIONS FOR THE POSITION OF CHAIR. CAN I NOMINATE CHAIR MOSES? UH, YOU ACTUALLY CANNOT BECAUSE I'M COMING OUT ACCEPT THAT . YEAH, IT WAS, IT WAS A QUESTION. SORRY. WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD HAVE REITERATED THAT PART. STILL MESSY OF THE, I KNOW. THE, UH, THE REGULATIONS OF OUR BODY AS REVISED LAST YEAR STATE THAT THE CHAIR CAN ONLY SERVE TWO CONSECUTIVE TERMS. AND THIS IS MY SECOND, SO TAKE IT OFF. I'M AS A COMPLIMENT. ALRIGHT. I APPRECIATE IT. BUT YEAH, I REJECT . I ALSO WANNA MAKE A QUICK POINT, UH, THAT, UM, THE POSITIONS, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY ARE ACCEPTED AND VOTED ON AND APPROVED, UM, THOSE, UM, WON'T START TILL THE NEXT MEETING ITEM. SO, UH, CHAIR MOSES, YOU WILL BE COMPLETING THIS MEETING AS A CHAIR. GREAT. HAPPY TO DO IT. SO WE STILL NEED NOMINATIONS FOR CHAIR, FOR CHAIR. COULD I TRY AGAIN? AND NOM NOMINATE. COMMISSIONER NEWELL. UM, UH, I'LL, I'LL ACCEPT THE NOMINATION, BUT I WANT TO DISCLOSE THAT I AM RUNNING FOR CITY COUNCIL DISTRICT TWO. UM, AND IN WHICH CASE, IF I WERE TO, TO WIN THAT ELECTION, I WOULD BE RESIGNING FROM CHAIR. SO, AND THAT WOULD BE A JANUARY THING? YEAH. YES, YES. WHO'S CURRENTLY VICE CHAIR? YOU ARE I, YEAH. I SHOULD ALSO SAY VICE CHAIR. UH, WHO CURRENTLY HOLDS THE POSITION. THANK YOU . APOLOGIES FOR THAT. YOU'RE DOING GREAT. UH, SO THE, UH, CHAIR MOSES IS CURRENTLY THE CHAIR. UH, SECOND, UH, VICE CHAIR IS, UH, COMMISSIONER NEWELL AND SECOND VICE CHAIR COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN. OKAY. SO WE HAVE ONE ACCEPTED NOMINATION FOR COMMISSIONER NEWELL. ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS FOR CHAIR? I'LL SECOND THE NOMINATION. YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO SECOND. WE'RE NOT, THEY DON'T, THERE DOESN'T DO SECOND. IF THERE ARE NO OTHER NOMINATIONS FOR CHAIR THAN WE WILL VOTE ON COMMISSIONER NOEL FOR CHAIR. YEAH. OKAY. . LET'S HAVE A ROLL CALL. VOTE PLEASE. JUST FOR THE RECORD. UM, COMMISSIONER ABNER? UH, YES. COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN? YES. COMMISSIONER. SORRY. NO. GBA. YES. COMMISSIONER NEWELL? YES. COMMISSIONER SCH ABSENT. COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE. YES. CHAIR MOSES? YES, IT IS APPROVED. CONGRATULATIONS, COMMISSIONER. GREAT. ALL RIGHT, SO WE'VE GOT OUR NEXT CHAIR. HOW ABOUT OUR NEXT VICE CHAIR NOMINATIONS? FOR VICE CHAIR I'LL NOMINATE COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN . DO YOU ACCEPT YOUR NOMINATION? COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN? I ACCEPT. OKAY. ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS FOR VICE CHAIR? ALL RIGHT, THEN LET'S DO A ROLL CALL VOTE ON COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN FOR VICE CHAIR. FOR COMMISSIONER POSTERITY. . COMMISSIONER EBNER? YES. COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN? YES. COMMISSIONER NOY GBA? YES. COMMISSIONER NOEL? YES. COMMISSIONER? SHE ABSENT. COUNCIL MEMBER? MEMBER BARNACLE. AYE. CHAIR MOSES? YES, IT IS APPROVED. ALL RIGHT. CONGRATULATIONS TO COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN, OUR NEW VICE CHAIR. DID WE CLAP FOR YOU? DID WE? WE SHOULD HAVE. OKAY. UH, NOW I'LL ACCEPT NOMINATIONS [04:40:01] FOR SECOND VICE CHAIR. I'LL NOMINATE COMMISSIONER EBNER. I'LL ACCEPT THAT ONE. . OKAY. ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS OR SECOND VICE CHAIR? SEEING NONE, LET'S HAVE A VOTE PLEASE. COMMISSIONER EBNER? YES. COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN? YES. COMM COMMISSIONER NOY GOBA? YES. COMMISSIONER NOELL? YES. COMMISSIONER SHELTER ABSENT. COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE. AYE. CHAIR MOSES? YES, IT'S APPROVED. ALL RIGHT. GREAT JOB EVERYBODY AND CONGRATS TO OUR NEW OFFICERS AND YOU'LL GET THE GAVEL NEXT TIME AND I'LL GET, GET US OUTTA HERE, . HOPEFULLY. UH, ALRIGHT, [5. Administrative Action - Nomination and Reappointment or Appointment of Planning Commissioners to Commission Liaison Roles on the Pedestrian & Bicycle Advisory Committee and Tree Advisory Committee. This administrative action item does not require a discretionary land use action by the Planning Commission; therefore, environmental review under CEQA is not required.] WE MOVING ON TO, UH, MEETING ITEM FIVE, WHICH IS NOMINATION AND REAPPOINTMENT OR APPOINTMENT A PLANNING COMMISSIONERS TO COMMISSION LIAISON ROLES ON THE PEDESTRIAN AND BICYCLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE. UM, THIS IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION AND DOES NOT REQUIRE DISCRE DISCRETIONARY LAND USE ACTION BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THEREFORE, ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW UNDER CQA IS NOT REQUIRED, NOR IS IT A PUBLIC HEARING. SO IT DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS PRO INTO STAFF TO PRESENT. YEAH. SO I'LL BE PRESENTING THAT ONE AS WELL. UH, SO FOR THIS ONE WE WILL BE, UH, TAKING NOMINATIONS AND ASSIGNMENTS FOR THE TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND THE PEDESTRIAN AND BICYCLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE CURRENTLY, WHO IS ON THE TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE. THAT'S COMMISSIONER SCHULTZ, WHO'S CURRENTLY NOT HERE. AND THE PAC COMMITTEE IS CURRENTLY, UH, COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN. UM, YOU CAN, UM, SORRY, I'M HAVING A BRAIN FART. SELF NOMINATE. CORRECT. YOU CAN SELF NOMINATE, UH, FOR, UH, THE ROLE. UM, SOMEONE ELSE, UH, CAN NOMINATE YOU. UM, YOU CAN ACCEPT OR REJECT THAT NOMINATION. UM, YEAH. OKAY. I GUESS FIRST AND FOREMOST, UH, NEWLY APPOINTED VICE CHAIR GOLDMAN, DO YOU WISH TO RETAIN YOUR LIAISON ROLE WITH PAC? I WOULD BE HAPPY TO, BUT WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO AS WELL. IT'S BEEN A VERY GOOD OPPORTUNITY AND I DON'T REALLY WANNA HOARD ALL OPPORTUNITIES IF SOMEONE HAS A SPECIFIC INTEREST IN IT. OKAY. ANYONE INTERESTED IN, I'M WONDERING WHEN THEY MEET OR HOW OFTEN DO YOU GUYS MEET? IT'S WEDNESDAYS MONTHLY, BUT WITH THE CAVEAT THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF MEETINGS THAT WERE POSTPONED CANCELED. CANCELED. OKAY. SO A, A MONTHLY WEDNESDAY? I WOULD ADD THOUGH. WE'LL, WE'LL HAVE, UM, THE NORTH STATION SPECIFIC PLAN COMING FORWARD. YEAH. IT'S PICK UP THE DOWNTOWN STATION AREA PLAN, THE FAIRGROUNDS PLAN AND UM, AND SUCH. SO I WOULD IMAGINE THERE WILL BE MORE ACTIVITY IN THIS YEAR. ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SERVING AS LIAISON TO BECK? HMM. NO. UM, I GUESS WITHOUT COMMISSIONER HILT, I AM CONSIDERING WHETHER WE SHOULD KICK THIS CAN TO A MEETING THAT HE'S AT OR THAT IS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU IF YOU WANNA DO THAT. OKAY. YEAH. 'CAUSE HE'S ALSO OUR TREE PERSON. HE'S ON TREE ADVISORY. YEAH. AND I WILL SAY CHAIR, I SPOKE WITH HIM YESTERDAY. HE IS INTERESTED IN DOING THAT WITH THE CAVEAT THAT HE, UH, PUT IN HIS PAPERS TO BE THE HEALTH DISTRICT FOR PETALUMA, AND THAT'S LIKELY A DOCTRINE OF INCOMPATIBILITY. SO AS SOON AS HE TAKES THAT POSITION, HE WOULD HAVE TO FORFEIT HIS ROLE HERE AS WELL AS THE LIAISON FOR THE PLANNING COMMITTEE OR THE TRUE ADVISORY. SO HE WOULD OKAY. THAT'S INTERESTING. SO IF HE, PROBABLY IN DECEMBER, I WOULD SAY. YEAH. SO IF THERE WERE A VACANCY ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION BECAUSE OF THEIR HAVING TO STEP DOWN BECAUSE OF A DIFFERENT CITY ROLE, HOW DO THOSE GET REFILLED? SORRY, THIS IS A TANGENT. YEAH, YEAH. THIS IS DEFINITELY A TANGENT. WELL, THE, THE CITY CLERK TY, TYPICALLY THE, WE WOULD, UM, THE CITY CLERK WOULD LOOK ACROSS ALL CCB VACANCIES AND DECIDE IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A MID-YEAR RECRUITMENT. OKAY. UM, AND BROUGHT FORWARD TO THE COUNCIL. SO I THINK I WE DID THAT LAST YEAR. YEAH. THAT THERE, OR TWO YEARS AGO. IT WAS RELATIVELY RECENT THAT WE DID THAT MM-HMM . UM, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT IT'S LOOKING LIKE THIS YEAR. SO IF, AND IF THERE ISN'T A MID-YEAR RECRUITMENT, THEN IT'S LIKE MAY APPLICATIONS JUNE APPOINTMENTS JULY WEARING IN HOLD UNTIL THE ANNUAL RECRUITMENT. GOT IT. OKAY. SO POTENTIALLY, OKAY. YEAH, WE THANK YOU FOR THAT. WE MIGHT HAVE POTENTIALLY MULTIPLE, RIGHT. SO YEAH, WE'LL WANNA REVISIT THAT THEN. OKAY. OKAY. [04:45:01] SO THAT REMAINS THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR OUR PBE C LIAISON AND OUR TREE LIAISON WITH SOME UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME COMINGS AND GOINGS ON THE DAIS, UM, OR GOINGS AND EVENTUAL, UM, NEW APPOINTMENTS. SO, I MEAN, I GUESS THE, THE, THE QUESTION MARK IS WHETHER HILT WANTS PBE, WHICH IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE WE THINK HE DOES, HE JUST MENTIONED TRADE ADVISORY. OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. THEN I THINK I'M COMFORTABLE VOTING ON OUR PBAC LIAISON FOR WHOM WE HAVE COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN RAISING HIS HAND, THOUGH, WILLING TO GIVE IT UP, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE ANYONE'S CLAMORING TO TAKE THAT BATON. SO LET'S VOTE ON APPOINTING COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN RENEWING HIS APPOINTMENT AS OUR LIAISON TO THE PEDESTRIAN AND BICYCLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE. COMMISSIONER ABNER? YES. COMMISSIONER GOLDMAN. YES. COMMISSIONER, NO. GOBA? YES. OUR, UH, COMMISSIONER NEWELL? YES. COMMISSIONER HILT. ABSENT. COUNCIL MEMBER BARNACLE. AYE. CHAIR MOSES? YES, IT'S APPROVED. GREAT. AND THEN THAT LEAVES TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE. DO WE HAVE ANYONE WHO WISHES TO THROW THEIR HAT IN THE RING FOR TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE? OKAY, THEN LET'S TABLE THAT RIGHT UNTIL COMMISSIONER SCHUL IS YES BACK. SURE. GREAT. DO I NEED TO SAY THAT MORE OFFICIALLY OR VOTE ON IT? NO, I THINK YOU'RE GOOD. OKAY. GREAT. , THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR, UH, NEW OFFICERS AND OUR RENEWED PAC LIAISON. THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR EFFORTS MOVING TOWARDS COMMISSION [COMMITTEE COMMENT] COMMENT. ANYONE HAVE A COMMENT? WE'LL START AT THE END WITH COUNCIL MEMBER MARLE. NO COMMENT. NO COMMENT. I'D LIKE TO THANK CHAIR MOSES FOR, FOR STEERING US THROUGH ALL THESE MEETINGS THIS LAST FEW MONTHS. THANK YOU. I HOPE YOU GIVE ME SOME POINTERS. HAPPY TO. UM, THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN FUN TO SERVE AS CHAIR AND I KNOW YOU'LL DO GREAT, BRENT. SO HAPPY TO, HAPPY TO SHARE ANY TIPS AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. UM, OTHERWISE FOR MY COMMISSION COMMENT, UM, I WENT TO THE TRESTLE PROMENADE, NOW MIXER, I'LL CALL IT, UM, LAST WEEK, I WANNA SAY. UM, SO SOME INTERESTING SORT OF BREWING ENERGY AROUND THAT. UM, I'VE ALSO BEEN FOLLOWING ALONG THOUGH SORT OF ON A ONE WEEK DELAY THE SCHOOL BOARD'S CONVERSATIONS AROUND THE CORNELL, WHAT IS LOOKING TO BE THE CORNELL, UM, PERFORMING ARTS CENTER THAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO BUILD FOR THE DISTRICT. UM, AND I'VE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH, UM, COMMUNITY DIRECTOR BRIAN O ABOUT IT. UM, JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. SO , I'VE GOT A, I'VE GOT AN INTEREST AND IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT, UM, WON'T COME TO US BECAUSE IT'S SCHOOL AND AND I THINK THERE'S BEEN SOME INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS ON THE SCHOOL BOARD SIDE, JUST HAVING WATCHED BACK THE VIDEOS OF THEIR MEETINGS THAT THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF KEENLY AWARE OF COMMUNITY INPUT, ESPECIALLY GIVEN SOME OF THE PAIN POINTS THEY EXPERIENCED WITH THE CHERRY VALLEY PROJECT OVER THE LAST YEAR. UM, THAT I, I'M HOPING THAT THERE ARE SOME LESSONS LEARNED AND SOME, UM, POSITIVE ENGAGEMENTS ACROSS THE COMMUNITY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS CENTER THAT IS LOOKING TO GO ON THAT CELLA OPEN SPACE RIGHT BEHIND THE CELLA PARK. UM, WHICH IS BASICALLY JUST A SAD LITTLE POT OF LAND. BUT, UM, YEAH, WE'LL SEE HOW THAT DEVELOPS. AND I BELIEVE THAT'S ALL I GOT THAT. UM, JUST TO REPORT BACK OUT ON THE PREVIOUS PAC UM, MEETING, THERE WAS AN UPDATE TO THE HOWARD STREET IMPROVEMENTS PROJECT, WHICH WAS A LONG TIME COMING. IT WAS INTERESTING TO SEE, UM, HOW DIFFERENT CYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS THINK ABOUT THE SAME SPACE AND WHAT IMPROVEMENTS MADE. SOME SEE AS IMPROVEMENTS, SOME SEE AS HARDER OBSTACLES TO NAVIGATE. UM, LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, THERE ARE MULTIPLE DIFFERENT, UM, VIEWPOINTS ON THE SAME, UM, TYPE OF WORK. SO JUST, WE SHOULD ALL KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WE CONTINUE TO DEVELOP OUR THOUGHTS BECAUSE WHAT SOMEONE SEES AS AN IMPROVEMENT, ANOTHER WILL SEE AS A MASSIVE DETRIMENT, EVEN IF IT WAS MADE IN THE, UM, WITH THE INTENTION OF BEING AN IMPROVEMENT ACROSS [04:50:01] THE BOARD. UM, THE OTHER THING THAT WE DID WAS, UM, TALK MORE ABOUT THE, UH, TRANSPORTATION, THE ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION WAY FINDING PROJECT. UM, THERE'S A LOT OF THOUGHT GOING INTO HOW TO MAKE SIGNS AND WAYPOINTS NAVIGABLE AND COST EFFECTIVE AND USEFUL TO EVERYONE. UM, AND YEAH, THEY'RE WELL IN DEVELOPMENT. IT LOOKS LIKE THE DESIGN PROCESS IS GOING WELL FOR THAT. AND IT'S NICE TO SEE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, THOUGHT INTO HOW WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT A COHESIVE DEVELOPMENT SO THAT IT'S NOT DISPARATE ACROSS, UM, THE CITY. THAT THERE'S ALL A SINGLE DESIGN LANGUAGE, THAT IT'S EASY TO READ FROM MULTIPLE HEIGHTS AND PURPOSES AND INCLUDES THE TYPE OF INFORMATION THAT PEOPLE WANT AND NEED TO BE ABLE TO GET TO WHERE THEY'RE GOING. RELATED TO THAT WAYFINDING, I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION BECAUSE YOU'VE REMINDED ME THAT I ALSO HAD TAPPED INTO THE PARKS COMMITTEE CONVERSATION AROUND NAMING THAT LONG PATHWAY. MM-HMM . DID, DID COUNCIL VOTE ON THAT YET? I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T THINK SO. OKAY. UM, IT, THEY YET LOOKED, THERE WASN'T VERY, BECAUSE PARKS MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO, TO, I WANNA SAY EAST LOOP, BUT COUNCIL IS THE FINAL, I THINK THERE WAS FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE GONNA CALL IT, BUT HADN'T SETTLED ON A SPECIFIC NAME YET. GOTCHA. OKAY. WE, CHELSEA DID, DO YOU KNOW, I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S COME BEFORE COUNCIL YET. OKAY. OKAY. NOT YET. NO. OKAY. GOT IT. ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONER. UH, NO COMMENT FROM ME OTHER THAN THANK YOU FOR THE WARM WELCOME. EXCELLENT. YES. YOU PRETREATED YOU TO A . NICE LONG MEETING TO . SETTLE YOU IN. NOT YET. NOT YET. SCARED OFF. GOOD. GOOD, GOOD, GOOD. . ALRIGHT, WE'LL TAKE [STAFF COMMENT] IT TO STAFF COMMENT. OKAY. OKAY. WELL, UM, THANK YOU. I MEAN, JUST WELCOME TO THE NEW COMMISSIONER. CHANGING OF THE GUARD. I THINK THERE'S BEEN STABILITY OVER, UM, THE LAST COUPLE YEARS AND I, AND YOU KNOW, ANOTHER THEME, UM, THIS IS ANDREW'S LAST, UH, MEETING AS PLANNING MANAGER FOR THE CITY. HE'S BEEN WITH US FOUR OH, GOING ON FIVE, FOUR AND A HALF. YEAH. FOUR AND A HALF YEARS. HE'S BEEN THE ONLY PLANNING MANAGER THAT I'VE KNOWN, UM, IN THIS POSITION. UM, I COULD NOT THINK OF A BETTER PERSON TO HAVE STEWARDED OUR DAY-TO-DAY PLANNING OPERATIONS AS A CITY. UM, AND THERE'S A LOT MORE WORK TO BE DONE. UM, BUT JUST WANTED TO TAKE JUST ONE MINUTE BEFORE WE HIT THE 11 O'CLOCK HOUR, JUST TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT ANDREW HAS, UM, NOT ONLY DONE IN HIS TENURE HERE WITH THE CITY, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO IN A SPECIAL PROJECTS, UM, CAPACITY, UM, WITH THIS BIG TASK, STARTING WITH THIS BIG TASK THAT WE HAVE, WHICH IS A ZONING CODE REFORM. UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU TO ANDREW AND, UM, JUST TURN IT OVER TO YOU IF YOU HAVE SOME CLOSING THOUGHTS. GREAT. THANKS BRIAN. UH, I DO, IT'S, UH, IT'S BEEN A GREAT FOUR AND A HALF YEARS. I'VE LEARNED SO MUCH, UM, AND EXPERIENCED SO MUCH. AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I, I ONCE HAD A SUPERVISOR WHO WHEN WE DID SOMETHING REALLY GOOD, HE'D ALWAYS, HE'D ALWAYS JUST SAY, MAN, THAT WAS SOME GOOD PLANNING. AND, AND I THINK WE'VE HAD SOME GOOD PLANNING EXPERIENCES, RIGHT. UM, THE, THE, THE, TO WATCH THE DEPARTMENT GROW, UH, UNDER BRIAN'S LEADERSHIP HAS BEEN INCREDIBLE. AND, AND TO POINT TO CHAIR MOSES AND JUST THE STEADFASTNESS THAT YOU BROUGHT TO CHAIRING THE COMMISSION, I THINK HAS BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT AND, UH, I THINK HELPED TAKE THE COMMISSION TO ANOTHER LEVEL. SO, UM, I'LL, I'LL BE BACK HERE ON THE 15TH. IT, IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE I'M GOING ANYWHERE REALLY. UM, BUT DEFINITELY IN A DIFFERENT CAPACITY AND, AND LOOKING FORWARD TO SUPPORTING THE NEW PLANNING MANAGER AND THE NEW TEAM THAT COMES IN, UM, TO, TO HELP PICK UP WHERE, WHERE, UM, M GROUP HEADS OUT. SO THANK YOU ALL. APPRECIATE YOU, BRIAN. YES. BIG THANK YOU. YOU'VE BEEN AN INCREDIBLE, INCREDIBLE HELP TO OUR, THIS BODY TO THE CITY AND YOUR, YOUR DEDICATION IS UNQUESTIONABLE. SO THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HARD WORK AND I'M GLAD YOU'RE COMING BACK. , [04:55:01] YOU, YOU'RE NOT DONE WITH US YET. UM, ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT, I THINK WE CAN ADJOURN HERE AT 1105. THANKS EVERYBODY. . * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.