[00:00:01]
UM, GOOD EVENING.[CALL TO ORDER]
WELCOME TO THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE HISTORIC AND CULTURAL PRESERVATION COMMITTEE FOR TUESDAY, OCTOBER 6TH, 2026.MAY WE PLEASE TAKE ROLL? COMMITTEE MEMBER MCMICHAEL? PRESENT.
COMMITTEE MEMBER MATTSEN? PRESENT.
COMMITTEE MEMBER HALL, ABSENT.
COMMITTEE MEMBER SAXON? PRESENT.
UM, WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON TO GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT.
DURING GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO MAKE COMMENTS ON ITEMS OF PUBLIC INTEREST THAT ARE WITHIN THE HCPC'S SUBJECT MATTER JURISDICTION AND THAT ARE NOT LISTED ON THE CURRENT AGENDA.
PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON.
DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF PERSONS WISHING TO ADDRESS THE HCPC, TIME WILL BE ALLOCATED IN EQUAL SHARES TOTALING NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES.
GOING TO OPEN GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT.
IF THERE ARE ANY SPEAKERS WHO HAVE NOT YET BROUGHT THEIR SPEAKER CARDS TO THE CLERK'S DESK, PLEASE DO SO.
HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING? WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING.
ARE THERE ANY IN PERSON PUBLIC SPEAKERS THAT WISH TO SPEAK? HAVE YOU GOTTEN ANY CARDS? OKAY.
WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT.
UM, THERE ARE NO PRESENTATION ITEMS TODAY.
SO WITH THAT, WE ARE GOING TO CLOSE THAT MEETING ITEM AND CONTINUE
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
TO THE APPROVAL OF MINUTES.UH, MEETING ITEM ONE IS APPROVING THE MINUTES FOR OUR MEETING ON JANUARY 6TH, 2026.
COMMITTEE MEMBERS, DO WE HAVE ANY AMENDMENTS THAT NEED TO BE MADE TO THOSE MINUTES? NO.
UM, THEN THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED AS PUBLISHED.
WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE MEETING ITEM ONE AND MOVE ON TO MEETING ITEM TWO, WHICH IS APPROVING MINUTES FOR THE FEBRUARY 24TH, 2026 MEETING.
ARE THERE ANY AMENDMENTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE TO THOSE MINUTES? ALL RIGHT.
UM, THEN WE WILL APPROVE THE MINUTES AS THEY ARE PUBLISHED AND CLOSE MEETING ITEM TWO.
AND THEN WE WILL OPEN MEETING ITEM THREE, WHICH IS THE APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR OUR MEETING ON JULY 7TH, 2026.
ANY AMENDMENTS TO THE MINUTES FOR JULY 7TH? ALL RIGHT.
THEN WE ARE GOING TO APPROVE THOSE MINUTES AS THEY ARE PUBLISHED AND CLOSE MEETING ITEM THREE AND MOVE ON TO
[PUBLIC HEARINGS AND MATTERS FOR CONSIDERATION]
PUBLIC HEARINGS AND MATTERS FOR CONSIDERATION.MEETING ITEM FOUR IS A PUBLIC HEARING.
IT IS THE RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY OF PETALUMA'S HISTORIC AND CULTURAL PRESERVATION COMMITTEE TO CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING HI - MAJOR HISTORIC SITE PLAN AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW, SUBJECT CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL FOR A PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION OF AN APPROXIMATELY 408 SQUARE FOOT ONE STORY ADDITION TO THE NORTH ELEVATION OF AN EXISTING CIRCA 1917 CRAFTSMAN BUNGALOW, INCLUDING ASSOCIATED SITE MODIFICATIONS LOCATED IN THE OAK HILL BREWSTER HISTORIC DISTRICT AT 535 HOWARD STREET, APN006065013, CITY RECORD NUMBER PLSR20260012.
THE PROJECT IS CATEGORICALLY EXEMPT FROM CEQA UNDER GUIDELINE SECTIONS 15331 CLASS 31 FOR REHABILITATION OF A HISTORIC RESOURCE AND SECTION 15301 CLASS ONE FOR MINOR ALTERATIONS TO EXISTING FACILITIES.
NO EXEMPTIONS UNDER CEQA GUIDELINE SECTION 15300.
IT DOES REQUIRE THE COMMITTEE TO DISCLOSE ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS.
SO I'M GOING TO OPEN THE HEARING.
ARE THERE ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS ANYONE NEEDS TO DISCLOSE? OKAY.
UM, I'M GOING TO INVITE STAFF TO PRESENT.
I BELIEVE THAT IS LARISSA, SENIOR PLANNER.
THANK YOU CHAIR, UM, AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE.
I'M A SENIOR PLANNER, UM, WITH M GROUP SERVING THE CITY AS THE PROJECT PLANNER.
SO THE ITEM BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS, UM, PLSR, UH, 20260012.
THIS IS A MAJOR HISTORIC SITE PLAN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW FOR A ONE-STORY ADDITION TO THE RESIDENCE AT 535 HOWARD
[00:05:01]
STREET IN THE OAK HILL BREWSTER HISTORIC DISTRICT.UH, THE HOUSE, UM, WAS BUILT AROUND 1917 AND FIRST APPEARED ON THE 1923 SANBORN MAP.
UM, THE 1941 AERIAL SHOW ON THE RIGHT SHOWS THE PART OF A LARGER ARCHITECT, UH, AGRICULTURAL PROPERTY THAT WAS SUBDIVIDED INTO ITS CURRENT SIZE BY THE EARLY 1960S.
UM, THE OAK HILL BREWSTER DISTRICT ORDINANCE HAS NO FORMAL CONTRIBUTOR LIST, BUT THE CONSULTANT CONCLUDED THAT THE HOUSE IS VERY LIKELY A CONTRIBUTOR TO THE DISTRICT.
IF IT DOES FALL WITH, UH, WITHIN THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE, UM, IS A COMMON DISTRICT PROPERTY TYPE AND IS WELL PRESERVED.
ITS CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES ARE, UH, CONCERTED ON THE FRONT FACADE, AND THE PROPERTY IS ALSO LOCATED ON THE VERY NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE OAK HILL BREWSTER DISTRICT.
UM, THE HOMEOWNER PROPOSES A 408 SQUARE FOOT ADDITION, UM, ONE STORY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE EXISTING 960 SQUARE FOOT BUNGALOW, BRINGING THE HOME TO ABOUT 1,363 SQUARE FEET.
THE ADDITION WILL SIT APPROXIMATELY ONE FOOT, 10 INCHES BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE EXISTING HOME AND 17 FEET FROM THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE.
THE SITE WORK PROPOSED IS LIMITED TO SIDEWALK AND GATES, ADDITION, ADDING A SMALL CONCRETE RETAINING WALL.
NO TREES ARE REMOVED, UM, WITH THIS PROPOSAL AND PARKING REMAINS UNCHANGED.
UH, THE FRONT SETBACK I - FOR THE ADDITION IS REQUESTING A MODIFICATION UNDER IMPLEMENTING ZONING ORDINANCE SECTION 12030A, WHICH ALLOWS FOR AVERAGING OF, UM, OF THE SETBACK COMPARED TO THE EXISTING PROPERTIES ADJACENT TO IT OR ABUTTING IT.
UM, TO DO THAT, UM, YOU MEASURE THE FRONT YARD DEPTH OF THE BUILDING TO THE LEFT, WHICH IS 533 HOWARD, WHICH HAS A SETBACK OF 12 FEET TWO INCHES.
IT IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND THEN 537 HOWARD IS OUTSIDE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND HAS A 20 FOOT, 21 FOOT SETBACK.
UM, AND AVERAGING THOSE TWO FRONT SETBACKS TOGETHER, YOU GET A 16 FOOT NINE INCH, AND THE PROPOSED ADDITION IS AT 17 FEET, WHICH MEETS THIS, UM, ALLOWED MODIFICATION.
UM, THE COMPATIBILITY MEMORANDUM THAT WAS INCLUDED...
UM, THAT WAS INCLUDED AS IN THE STAFF REPORT AS AN ATTACHMENT AND ON THE AGENDA, UM, IS PREPARED BY A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL.
UM, HE FOUND THAT THE ADDITION PRESERVES A HISTORIC FABRIC, UH, BY BUILDING ON THE UTILITARIAN NORTH FACADE, IS COMPATIBLE THROUGH ITS SETBACKS, LOWER SHED ROOF, AND MATCHING WINDOWS IN COLOR, AND IS DIFFERENTIATED FROM, THROUGH THE STAINED WOOD SHINGLES AND SIMPLIFIED DETAILING.
THE NORTH FACADE IS THE ONLY PRACTICAL LOCATION FOR THIS EDITION.
UM, THE HOUSE LOCATION ON THE LOT AND EXISTING STRUCTURES IN THE REAR AND REAR DECK, UH, MAKE THIS, UH, ELEVATION THE ONLY PRACTICAL PLACE FOR THE ADDITION.
UM, UH, THE STAFF REPORT, UH, DETAILS THE SECRETARY OF MATERIAL STANDARDS, UH, FOR REAL - REHABILITATION, UM, IN DETAIL, AND THEY ARE JUST BRIEFLY SHOWN HERE.
THE USE REMAINS A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL USE.
UM, NO CHARACTER FAB - HISTORIC FABRIC IS REMOVED.
THE EXISTING STRUCTURE WILL CHANGE OVER TIME.
THE ENCLOSED FRONT PORCH IS UNAFFECTED.
UM, THE DISTINCTIVE CHARACTERS ARE PRESERVED.
UH, THERE'S NO DETERIORATION OR TREATMENTS PROPOSED, AND THE TWO PRIMARY, UM, STANDARDS FOR ADDITIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED.
IT IS SUBORDINATE AND DIFFERENTIATED FROM THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, AND IT IS REVERSIBLE.
UM, THE ADDITION DOES MAINTAIN THE WINDOWS, UM, ON THE EXISTING HOME, AND THOUGH UNLIKELY, IT IS POSSIBLE TO REMOVE THE ADDITION.
[00:10:01]
STAFF REPORT ALSO EX - UH, DETAILS THE OAK HILL BREWSTER HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, UM, INCLUDING THE STYLE AND DESIGN, THE SETBACK AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER IN THIS PRESENTATION WITH THE MODIFIED SETBACK, THE SIDE YARDS WHICH ARE SCREENED, UH, FROM...WITH THE EXISTING, UH, GATE FOR THE PARKING AREA, THE SHED ROOF STAYS BELOW THE RIDGE, UM, OF THE EXISTING GABLE MIDPOINT.
UH, THE FACADE, UM, ORIGINAL FRONT FACADE IS MAINTAINED, IT'S UNALTERED.
THE MATERIALS INCLUDE STAINED SHINGLES WHICH DIFFERENTIATE FROM THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, SALVAGE SIDING, UH, FROM THE EXISTING WALL, AND THE MATCHING COLORS, UM, OF THE PROPOSED MATERIALS AND TRIM.
UM, AND THEN FOR CEQA EXEMPTION, UH, CLASS ONE FOR THE ADDITION, IT IS UNDER THE THRESHOLD, UM, WHICH IS 50% OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE OR 2,500 SQUARE FEET.
UH, AND THERE WERE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THE, UM, EXEMPTION UNDER CEQA.
UM, AND THEN STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPROVAL OF THE MAJOR HISTORIC DISTRICT, OR MAJOR HISTORIC SITE PLAN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW, UM, FOR THE 408 SQUARE FOOT ADDITION AND THE ASSOCIATED SITE MODIFICATIONS AT 535 POWERED.
AND, UM, I'M AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS AS WELL AS THE HOMEOWNER AND THEIR ARCHITECT ARE ALSO HERE, UM, TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.
COMMITTEE, THIS IS OUR OPPORTUNITY.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, THE HOMEOWNER, OR THE ARCHITECT? WE SEE THE, UH, SMALL SIDE WINDOWS ON THE ADDITION.
ARE THERE EXISTING WINDOWS MATCHING THAT IN THE ORIGINAL COTTAGE? YES, THE EXISTING WINDOWS, UM, WILL REMAIN ON THAT EXTERIOR WALL THAT WILL BE COVERED BY THE ADDITION, AND, UM, NEW WINDOWS WILL BE INSTALLED ON THE ADDITION.
UM, AND THE ARCHITECT IS ALSO HERE IF YOU WOULD LIKE THEM TO SPEAK ANY MORE TO THE DETAILS OF THAT, BUT THOSE EXISTING WINDOWS WILL REMAIN.
BUT THE SMALLER WINDOWS, UH, ON THE SIDE ADDITION, UM, DO WE SEE THOSE REFLECTED IN THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION OF THE COTTAGE? ON THE, THE SMALL WINDOW ON THE FRONT, IT'S NOT ON THE, IT'S NOT ON THAT ELEVATION THERE RIGHT NOW.
UM, WELL, WE WANTED TO LIMIT HOW MANY FOR TITLE 24, THAT WAS THE ONE YOU JUST PASSED IT SO THAT IT'LL ESSENTIALLY BE THE SAME DETAILING AROUND THE WINDOW, BUT INSTEAD OF A DOUBLE WINDOW, IT'S A SMALL WINDOW, ONE ON ONE SIDE OF THE BUILDING, ONE ON THE OTHER, RATHER THAN DOUBLING UP THE WINDOWS IN THE FRONT TO HAVE TOO MANY WINDOWS ON EACH SIDE.
THAT'S THE POINT OF THE DESIGN.
IF THEY SHOW THE FRONT ELEVATION OF THE HOUSE, I THINK THAT'S WHAT MS. MCMICHAEL WAS REFERRING TO, THAT ONE, IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE QUESTIONING, THAT WINDOW? NO, UH, THE SMALLER WINDOWS THAT SHOW, ESPECIALLY DOWN THE HILL - OH, I SEE.
YEAH, THOSE ARE, THOSE, THOSE SMALLER WINDOWS UP THERE THAT'S GOING INSIDE A POWDER ROOM AND, AND THE OTHER ONE IS INSIDE WHAT'S GONNA BE LIKE A LITTLE STORAGE, UH, OFFICE OR WE'RE NOT SURE THE USE OF IT YET, WHETHER IT'S PANTRY STORAGE OFFICE.
AND SO BY BRINGING THE WINDOWS UP, IT LETS LIGHT INTO THOSE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO HAVE...
AND, AND YOU CAN SEE THEM REFLECTING ON THE EXISTING WINDOWS DOWN BELOW ON, ON THE EXISTING STRUCTURE.
SO, SO THOSE HALF HEIGHT ONES ARE TO NOT HAVE A WINDOW ALL THE WAY AS LOW IN A POWDER ROOM, AND THAT'S THE REASON THAT THOSE ARE UP.
AND IF YOU WANNA SEE THE REFERENCE TO THAT, THAT WOULD BE, AS YOU SEE ON THE S - LOWER DOWN, THE EXISTING STRUCTURE HAS TWO WINDOWS LIKE THAT.
OKAY, SO IF YOU WENT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL ELEVATION, IF YOU CAN FIND IT, THAT, THOSE ARE REFLECTIVE OF THAT.
I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA PULL UP THE FULL PROJECT PLANS, UM, THAT WAY WE CAN LOOK AT IT ALL TOGETHER.
I'M THE OWNER OF THIS, HE'S THE ARCHITECT.
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, THOSE LOOK LIKE THEY'RE HALF THE SCALE
[00:15:01]
OF THE DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS TOO, RIGHT? SO THEY'RE, THERE'S A PRECEDENT FOR THAT.AND THE TRIM WILL BE THE SAME.
AND AGAIN, EXISTING, THERE ARE THESE OTHER HALF HEIGHT ONES THAT ARE AWNING WINDOWS BELOW.
AND THEY'RE ALSO ACTUALLY JUST TO THE, I DON'T WANNA SAY CRAWLSPACE, BUT BASICALLY THE UNDERSIDE OF THE HOUSE.
WHILE I HAVE YOU HERE, AND THE GARAGES ARE EXISTING NOW ON THE SITE? YEAH, THERE'S A GARAGE ON THE SIDE IN THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY.
AND IN THE FRONT, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU COULD PARK.
IN THE FRONT, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU COULD PARK THREE CARS ON THE CONCRETE RIGHT NOW, AND WILL THOSE BE ELIMINATED - NO.
WITH THE - NO, THE, THE, THE SETBACK OF THE FRONT ELEVATION IS ABOUT THE SAME EXACT PLACE WHERE THE GATES ARE NOW, AND CURRENTLY THERE'S...
WE COULD PARK THREE ACROSS THERE, AND AS WELL BEHIND THE GATES IS A DRIVE THAT GOES DOWN TO THE GARAGE THAT'S...
I COULD PROBABLY PARK THREE MORE CARS, SO THERE'S TONS OF, UM, OFF-STREET PARKING.
IT'S NOT REALLY GONNA CHANGE THE PARKING AT ALL.
AND THE COTTAGE TYPE FENCE THAT'S SHOWN ON THE EXISTING PROPERTY, THAT WILL REMAIN? WHICH FENCE DO YOU MEAN? UH, THE LITTLE SMALL FENCE THAT BORDERS TO - IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE? YES, SIR.
SO, UM, JUST TO INTRODUCE MYSELF, I'M ERIN CRESPY, AND I HAVE A...
I'VE BEEN IN PETALUMA AS A CUSTOM WOODWORK AND ARCHITECTURAL MILLWORKER MYSELF FOR 40 YEARS.
SO I BUILT CABINETS, FURNITURE, ARCHITECTURAL MILLWORK OF THIS KIND FOR- FOREVER.
SO I'M PRETTY SENSITIVE TO HOW THE THINGS LOOK.
SO THOSE DETAILS THAT ARE THERE, WHETHER IT'S THE FENCES AND GATES, AND A LOT OF THAT, THAT'S NOT WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE.
I- I, UM, DESIGNED THOSE THINGS IN KEEPING WITH THE STYLE OF THE PROPERTY.
LOOKS VERY CHARMING, MR. CHRIS.
AND THE GATES ALSO AS WELL WERE THE SAME, UH, THEY'RE- THEY'RE JUST GONNA BE...
WELL, ONE SECTION'S GONNA BE ELIMINATED, BUT THE OTHER GATES WITH THE DETAILING ON THOSE FOR THE KIND OF CRAFTSMEN STYLING WILL REMAIN.
AND THE- THE WHOLE DESIGN WITH THE ROOF LINE AND WE DIDN'T WANT IT TO GET TOO HIGH, RIGHT? WE WANTED TO...
ALTHOUGH THE SH - YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SOME DESIGNS THAT WE PLAYED WITH WHERE IT WAS A GABLED OUT, BUT THAT WOULD CREATE A MUCH MORE MASSIVE IMPACT.
SO BECAUSE IT'S ON A HILLSIDE AND SLOPING DOWN, THIS HELPS KEEP EVERYTHING LOWER, AND THERE REALLY IS GONNA BE VISUALLY, IT SHOULD BE, I THINK, REALLY...
THAT WAS THE WORK WE DID FOR THE PAST YEAR WITH BILL AND ME AND ANOTHER BUILDER, SO...
NO, THAT'S THE, UH - THAT'S EXISTING.
THIS IS PROPOSED AND THEN - THAT'S PROPOSED.
SO YOU- YOU CAN SEE THE TWO WINDOWS THAT ARE IN THE EXISTING CONDITION.
SO THOSE BASICALLY WILL MOVE OUT, AND THEN THERE'S GONNA BE TWO SIMILAR ONES ABOVE IN THE - IN THE POWER ROOM, AND WHETHER IT'S A PANTRY OR A STORAGE OR AN OFFICE, WE DON'T KNOW YET.
AND- AND THESE WINDOWS HERE FROM THE EXISTING WALL REMAIN IN PLACE? YES.
ALL THOSE REMAIN IN PLACE AS PER FIRE.
THE- THE, UM, FIRE MARSHAL SAID IF WE DON'T TOUCH THOSE WINDOWS, LEAVE THEM IN PLACE, WHICH I'M HAPPY WITH AS WELL, THEN ALL WE HAVE IS AN OPENING, A THREE-FOOT OPENING.
WE'RE ALLOWED A 10% OPENING TO ENTER THE ADDITION AND WITHOUT TRIGGERING SPRINKLING.
AND SHE SAID, "DON'T TOUCH THE WINDOWS THAT ARE THERE.
LEAVE THEM ALL THERE." SO IN E - IN ESSENCE, YOU'RE JUST BRINGING THAT, UH, NORTH FACING SIDE OF THE BUILDING STRAIGHT OUT, AND THE - AND THE WINDOWS AS THEY STAND IN THE ORIGINAL WILL BE IN THE SAME BASIC PLACE WITH THE ADDITION OF THE TWO PRIVACY WINDOWS UP ABOVE? YEAH.
THE- THE- THE WINDOWS THAT ARE IN MY KITCHEN NOW STAY EXACTLY WHERE THEY ARE.
AND THEN THE ADDITIONS OUT THERE - SO THE...
THE WINDOWS BECOME PART OF AN INTERIOR WALL.
THE WINDOWS REMAIN AS PART OF AN INTERIOR WALL, AND, UH, LISA AT FIRE SAID THAT- THAT WON'T TRIGGER THE SPRINKLERS AND ALL THAT.
AND SO IT CREATES SORT OF AN OPEN, YOU KNOW, LARGER SPACE, BUT WITH WINDOWS THAT CAN BE SHOT OPEN, WHATEVER.
ANY FURTHER - SO YOU SEE IN THE PLAN, THOSE...
IN THE UPPER LEFT CORNER OF THAT PLAN, SHE'S INDICATING WITH A PANTRY...
WITH A POWDER ROOM AND LITTLE PANTRY
[00:20:01]
ROOM IS- IS, UM, WHERE THE TWO SMALL WINDOWS ARE.I DON'T THINK THAT'S SHOWING...
THAT'S THE TWO WINDOWS RIGHT THERE THAT YOU WERE QUESTIONING.
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP SO WE COULD SEE.
ANY QUESTIONS FROM ELLIE OR HAROLD? THIS IS THE, UM, COLOR CHART MADE.
THESE ARE THE EXISTING COLORS ON THE HOUSE, AND THEN THIS IS THE PLAN ON THE...
THIS IS THE ROOF, AND THAT'S THE PLAN FOR THE - FOR THE SIDING.
AND WE HAVEN'T YET DECIDED WE'LL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DETERMINE WHETHER THESE ARE GONNA BE CEMENT SHINGLES OR WOOD SHINGLES BASED ON COST AND FIRE RATING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND, UM, I DO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT FENESTRATION.
UM, YOU KNOW, THOUGH MANY OF THE EXISTING WINDOWS ARE WOOD, MARVIN, WOOD WINDOWS THAT HAVE THE RED ALUMINUM CLADDING ON THE OUTSIDE OF THEM.
AND I KNOW THIS HAS COME UP BEFORE FENESTRATION.
IT'S NOT A VINYL WINDOW, BUT IT IS WRAPPED IN THAT METAL THAT'S THAT COLOR.
IS THAT ALLOWED? OR DO YOU HAVE TO GO WITH WOOD WINDOWS AND PAINT IT, WHICH IS SORT OF, UM, NOT AS GOOD? DOES ANYBODY KNOW? WELL, THAT CAME UP AT SEVERAL OF OUR MEETINGS AND THE- THE LARGER PRECEDENT SEEMS TO BE THAT WOOD-WRAPPED METAL IS...
HAS BEEN ACCEPTED IN THE PAST.
I THINK HE WAS SAYING THAT HE HAS WOOD WRAPPED AROUND...
I THOUGH IT WAS A WOOD WRAPPED AROUND ALUMINUM IS WHAT YOU SAID.
THE - IT'S THE OUTSIDE CL - INSTEAD OF PAINT, IT HAS A CLADDED WOOD.
PAINTED THAT, YOU KNOW - YEAH.
SO THE- THE MAINTENANCE-WISE AND LONGEVITY OF THE WINDOW IS- IS GREATER.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO INS - WE HAD APPROVED IT ON A PREVIOUS STRUCTURE, BUT ALL STRUCTURES ARE UNIQUE IN THEIR OWN SELF AS WELL.
YOU MIGHT REMEMBER THAT APPROVAL.
WE'RE NOT PUTTING VINYL WINDOWS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
UM, I THINK THE MEETING YOU'RE REFERRING TO ACTUALLY HAD...
HCPC PREVIOUSLY REQUIRED ALL WOOD WINDOWS.
AND THEN SOMETIME WITHIN THE LAST 10 YEARS, THEY STARTED SHIFTING TOWARD DIFFERENT CLADDING.
UM, AND WE HEARD FROM RESIDENTS IN THE OAK HILL BREWSTER DISTRICT THAT THEY WOULD LIKE CLARITY ON THE CITY'S PUBLICA - PUBLISHED MATERIALS ABOUT WHAT OUR STANCE IS ON THAT.
AND WE WERE HOPING TO RECONVENE AND DISCUSS BECAUSE IT SOUNDED LIKE THE MATERIALS THAT WERE IN CIRCULATION IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ARE DATED AND ONLY REFERENCE SOLID WOOD.
UM, BUT THE PRE - THE PRECEDENCE THAT WE SORT OF HAVE INHERITED HAVE INCLUDED CLAD WINDOWS.
I- I DROVE BY YOUR HOUSE TODAY.
I DRIVE HOWARD OFTEN AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL HOME.
HOW MUCH YOU ENJOY THE WOOD ITSELF.
IT'S REALLY NEAT TO SEE THAT THAT IS GOING TO GET, UM, NOT ONLY PRESERVED, BUT ALSO SORT OF CELEBRATED AND EXTENDED.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS ABOUT THE SALVAGED SIDING.
IS THAT GOING ON THE- THE SORT OF LOWER STORY PORTION OF THE WALL UNDER THE SHINGLES? IS THAT - ON WHAT? ON WHAT? THERE WAS A REFERENCE TO SALVAGE SIDING.
WE'RE NOT GONNA SHINGLE BELOW THE WATER TABLE.
WE'RE GONNA CARRY WHAT'S CURRENTLY BELOW THE WATER TABLE LINE, WHICH IS WOOD.
AND SO EVEN AROUND THE ADDITION.
SO THE WOOD THAT'S COMING OFF THE EXISTING HOME WILL BE USED FOR THE AREA UNDER THE WATER TABLE.
IF YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE HOUSE, IT'S ON A SLOPE.
WATER TABLE IS WHERE THE FLOOR IS, AND SO FROM THERE UP WILL BE SHINGLE AND BELOW WILL BE THE WOOD.
AND WATER TABLE IS RIGHT THERE.
I WAS JUST TALKING TO A NEIGHBOR ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS TO MILL REPLACEMENT BOARDS IN THAT STYLE, AND IT'S NICE THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO SALVAGE IT.
AND THAT HOUSE IN PARTICULAR REALLY ISN'T...
THE SIDING, THE ORIGINAL SIDING WASN'T VERY GOOD.
ANYWAY, UM, I THINK THE HOUSE WAS PROBABLY BUILT FOR ABOUT A THOUSAND DOLLARS BACK THEN.
AND SO WHEN IT COMES TIME TO MATCHING THINGS, I HAVE THE CAPABILITY OF DOING THAT.
CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE PAGE THAT HAD THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS? THIS ONE? UH, THE...
[00:25:11]
I THINK THE HOUSE LOOKS BEAUTIFUL.I'M JUST WONDERING IF WE HAVE TO DOCUMENT ANY SORT OF CHANGES TO THE REQUIREMENTS, THE ZONING REQUIREMENTS THAT WE'RE MODIFYING.
OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S JUST TYPICALLY APPROVED? UM, JUST ON THE- THE 17 FOOT REQUIREMENT.
HANNAH SPENCER, PLANNING MANAGER WITH CITY OF PETALUMA.
TYPICALLY, THOSE TYPE OF FINDINGS WOULD BE PROVIDED IN OUR RESOLUTION THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING THE COMMITTEE ADOPT TODAY SO WE CAN TAKE A MINUTE TO LOOK THROUGH OUR FINDINGS AND CONFIRM THAT WE INCLUDED THE SETBACK AVERAGING REQUEST.
AND DOES- DOES THAT CHANGE THE, UM, THE ACTUAL PLANNING DOCUMENTS OR DOES IT...
IS IT JUST ALWAYS ON US TO, UM, DECIDE IF SOMEONE CAN...
IS ALLOWED TO MODIFY THEIR SETBACKS? IT'S JUST A ONE-TIME, UH, ALLOWANCE FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.
AND THE PLANS ALREADY SHOW THIS SETBACK AS PROPOSED, UM, WHICH DOES REQUIRE THAT MODIFICATION.
IF YOU WANT TO ALLOW IT, UM, IT WOULD REQUIRE YOUR APPROVAL OF THE MODIFICATION.
UM, I MIGHT POINT OUT, BY THE WAY, THAT THE EXISTING HOUSE HAS A...
THE ADDITION IS BEYOND ANY OF THE EXISTING WALLS, FRONT WALLS OF THE HOUSE.
THE, UH, THE ENTRYWAY IS FAR FORWARD.
THE MAIN PART OF THE HOUSE IS ALSO FORWARD BY ABOUT TWO FEET.
AND THEN THE ADDITION IS BEYOND THAT.
WE HAVEN'T TRIED TO BUILD RIGHT OUT TO A FRONT YARD SETBACK THAT WOULD BE EQUAL TO WHAT'S ALREADY THERE.
UH, THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
AND THE HOUSE ON THE DOWNHILL SIDE IS ALSO NOT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND IT HAS THE, UH, THE FRONT YARD SETBACKS ON THAT PARTICULAR HOUSE ARE 20 FEET, YOU KNOW.
AND, UH, AND EVEN WITH THE AVERAGING OF THAT 20 FEET AND THEN THE HOUSE ON THE UPHILL SIDE, ALONG WITH MANY OF THE OTHER HOMES ON THE UPHILL SIDE THAT ARE IN THE DISTRICT, THEY'RE ALL PRETTY CLOSE TO THE STREET.
AND, UM, UH, BUT THE AVERAGING WORKED OUT, YOU KNOW, JUST, UH...
AND WE WERE ABLE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, EASILY ACHIEVE THAT AVERAGING.
UM, I CAN ALSO WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT THAT FINDING IS IN YOUR RESOLUTION.
THERE IS ANALYSIS OF THE MODIFICATION REQUEST, UM, AS WELL AS THE, THE SETBACKS FOR THE PROPERTIES NEXT DOOR AND HOW WE CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IT MET THAT STANDARD.
THE, THE ADDITION IS GONNA BE EVEN WITH THE FRONT OF THE EXISTING BUILDING THAT - NO SETBACK? JUST A BIT.
E- E- EVEN THE WAY IT IS NOW, YOUR FENCE, THE WAY IT IS NOW IS EVEN WITH THE FRONT OF YOUR, YOUR HOUSE OR THAT, THAT ONE CORNER.
AND, AND WHEN I LOOKED AT YOUR PROPERTY FROM THE STREET, UH, YOUR, YOUR TRUCK WAS IN A, IN THE PARKING AREA HAS NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER ON THE STREET.
SO, UH, HAVING THAT SETBACK SHOULD HA - NOT BE A PROBLEM WHATSOEVER.
AND WE'RE REQUIRED ALSO TO SET BACK THE ADDITION BECAUSE THERE'S AN ELECTRIC METER RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE.
AND THAT ELECTRIC METER REQUIRES A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CLEARANCE IN FRONT OF IT.
AND SO THAT IS THE DIMENSION THAT DETERMINED WHERE THAT WALL WOULD END UP BEING.
MAY I ASK, UM, JUST TO CLARIFY, THE RETAINING WALL, WHICH WAS LISTED WITH THE SIDEWALK AND THE GATES, IS THE RETAINING WALL ALONG THE SIDEWALK? IS THAT ABOVE OR BELOW, RATHER, THE FENCE? OR WAS THAT SOMEWHERE ELSE? I JUST WAS CURIOUS WHERE THAT RETAINING WALL WAS.
THERE'S, THERE'S AN EXISTING RETAINING WALL THERE TO MAINTAIN THE L - WHAT I CALL THE LOWER DRIVEWAY.
AND THAT'S A WOODEN RETAINING WALL.
AND SO WE FIGURED THAT BY THE TIME WE PUT OUR FOUNDATION IN FOR THE ADDITION AND WE HAVE CONCRETE, THAT WE, WE THINK THAT IT'S GONNA...
[00:30:01]
THAT RETAINING WALL TO MAINTAIN THAT KIND OF LOWER DRIVEWAY THERE.AND FIGURING INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BUILD A NEW WOODEN RETAINING WALL THAT WE'LL PUT IN A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL - YEAH.
THAT WILL GO FURTHER DOWN, BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE, BUT I'VE BEEN IN THE HOUSE FOR 40 YEARS NOW.
BUT, UM, AND I THINK I'VE HAD TO REBUILD THAT RETAINING WALL ABOUT THREE TIMES.
EACH TIME I WOULD PUT BIGGER AND BIGGER TIMBER IN, IT WOULD LAST A LITTLE LONGER, BUT - SURE.
UM, SO I DON'T WANNA HAVE TO REPLACE THAT RETAINING WALL ANYMORE.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHERE IT WAS.
UM - WE ALSO HAVE TO PROVIDE A WALKWAY TO THE COTTAGE IN THE BACK.
BUT RIGHT NOW THE WALKWAY GOES RIGHT THROUGH WHERE THE ADDITIONS HERE.
SO EVERYTHING GOT MOVED DOWN THE HILL.
THE RETAINING WALL WILL SUPPORT THAT WALKWAY AS WELL.
ARE THERE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE BEFORE I OPEN THINGS UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT? WE CAN ALWAYS ASK QUESTIONS AFTER.
THIS ISN'T OUR ONLY OPPORTUNITY.
UM, UH, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO COMMENT ON THIS ITEM.
PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER PERSON.
IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE SO ALREADY, PLEASE FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD AND BRING IT TO THE CLERK.
DID WE RECEIVE ANY COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING? WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY COMMENTS PRIOR TO THE MEETING.
ARE THERE ANY IN PERSON PUBLIC SPEAKERS WHO WISH TO SPEAK? ALL RIGHT.
I'M GOING TO CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT.
AND I'M ALSO GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING THIS ITEM BACK TO THE COMMITTEE FOR CONSIDERATION BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO A VOTE.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS INTERNALLY? WISHBOWL STYLE? NONE FOR ME.
THE ATTENTION TO DETAIL IS WONDERFUL.
I'D, I'D SAY GO WITH A RECOMMENDATION OF THE, OF STAFF AND APPROVE IT.
ANY COMMENTS, JULIA? WAS THAT A MOTION? I'LL MAKE THAT AS A MOTION.
WE CAN, WE CAN MOVE ON TO A MOTION.
UH, REMIND ME HERE, I DON'T, DO WE NEED A THIRD? CAN I, I DON'T REMEMBER.
UH, MAY WE PLEASE CONDUCT A VOTE? COMMITTEE MEMBER MCMICHAEL? AYE.
COMMITTEE MEMBER MATTSEN? AYE.
COMMITTEE MEMBER HALL? ABSENT.
WE ARE GOING TO CLOSE MEETING ITEM FOUR AND CONTINUE WITH THE AGENDA.
YOU DON'T NEED US ANYTHING? THAT'S IT.
MEETING ITEM NUMBER FIVE IS ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION, WHICH IS OFFICER NOMINATIONS AND APPOINTMENT OF CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR.
UM, THIS ITEM IS NOT A PUBLIC HEARING.
IT DOES NOT REQUIRE DISCLOSING ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS.
UM, OH NO, WAIT, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? MM, NO.
OFFICER NOMINATIONS AND APPOINTMENTS FOR CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR.
THEY ARE 12 MONTH APPOINTMENTS, AND SO MY TIME HERE IS UP.
UM, ANYBODY INTERESTED IN BEING CHAIR? YOU'RE DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB.
ADD, UM, SOME INFORMATION ON JUST KIND OF OVERVIEW INSTRUCTIONS FOR THIS VOTE.
UH, ONCE AGAIN, HANNAH SPENCER, PLANNING MANAGER.
SO THIS ITEM IS FOR THE ANNUAL SELECTION OF THE CHAIR AND THE VICE CHAIR.
UNDER THE COMMITTEE RULES, THESE POSITIONS ARE SELECTED ANNUALLY FOR A ONE YEAR TERM.
AND, UM, HOW THIS WORKS TODAY IS WE WILL HANDLE THE ELECTION OF, FOR THE CHAIR FIRST, FOLLOWED BY THE VICE CHAIR.
YOU CAN EITHER SELF-NOMINATE OR NOMINATE SOMEONE ELSE.
IF SOMEONE IS NOMINATING YOU, YOU CAN EITHER ACCEPT THAT NOMINATION OR REJECT IT.
IF THERE IS MORE THAN ONE NOMINEE FOR THE POSITION, WHEN, UM, MELISSA CALLS YOU FOR YOUR VOTE, YOU WILL NEED TO STATE WHO YOU ARE VOTING FOR.
AND THE NOMINEE, IN THAT CASE, WHO RECEIVES THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF VOTES WILL BE ELECTED TO THE POSITION.
WHEN WE COMPLETE THE VOTES FOR THE
[00:35:01]
NEW CHAIR, WE'LL FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS FOR THE VICE CHAIR.AND THEN, UH, JUST AS A REMINDER, THE NEWLY APPOINTED CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR WILL ASSUME THEIR ROLES AT THE NEXT REGULAR HCPC MEETING.
SO IS THAT, UH, ENOUGH OF AN OVERVIEW OR DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS PROCESS? I, UM, I'D LIKE TO CLARIFY.
I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER, BUT IF, IF, UM, SOMEONE WAS A VICE CHAIR ONCE OR A CHAIR ONCE, IS THERE, THE TERM IS FOUR YEARS.
ARE THEY OUT OF THE RUNNING FOR FUTURE YEARS? LIKE, LIKE I WAS THE CHAIR, SO I MAY NOT BE A VICE CHAIR OR IN TWO YEARS I MAY NOT BE CHAIR AGAIN.
I'M NOT PARTICULARLY HELL BENT ON BEING EITHER OF THOSE.
I JUST WAS CURIOUS IF THERE WERE RULES GOVERNING THAT.
UM, I'M WONDERING IF, UH, CITY ATTORNEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP ME WITH THAT QUESTION.
I, WHEN I WAS READING THE ENABLING RESOLUTION, IT APPEARED THAT THE CHAIR COULD RUN AGAIN FOR A SUBSEQUENT YEAR.
THERE'S NOTHING THAT PROHIBITS IT.
SO YES, I THINK THAT'S ALLOWED.
SUBSEQUENT BUT NOT CONSECUTIVE.
I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING INDICATING EITHER WAY THAT YOU COULDN'T, SO.
I SAW, I THOUGHT IT WAS A HAD TO BE OUT SITUATION.
UM, WHAT DO WE WANNA DO, FOLKS? I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE MS. BARKLEY SAXON FOR CHAIR.
MY ONLY CONSIDERATION IS IF YOU WANNA DO IT, ALLIE.
SO I THINK WE WILL NEED A ROLL CALL.
UM, I BELIEVE WE NEED A MOTION FIRST.
CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER YEAR AS CHAIR.
COMMITTEE MEMBER MCMICHAEL? AYE.
COMMITTEE MEMBER HALL, ABSENT.
COMMITTEE MEMBER SQUIRREL? AYE.
AND NOW WE'LL NEED TO MOVE ON FOR THE VICE CHAIR.
UM, I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE ALI SQUIRREL FOR VICE CHAIR.
COMMITTEE MEMBER MCMICHAEL? AYE.
COMMITTEE MEMBER SQUIRREL? AYE.
THEN WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE MEETING ITEM FIVE.
[COMMITTEE COMMENT]
IF ANY COMMITTEE MEMBERS WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME, OR IF ANY COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME ABOUT ANYTHING.I'D JUST LIKE TO THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR TAKING THOSE OFFICES.
I FEEL LIKE WE'VE SORT OF HIT, HIT OUR STRIDE.
UM - I'D LIKE TO REPORT ON, UH, SOMETHING THAT THE MAYOR AND THE CITY COUNCIL DID FOR THE FIRST TIME IN PETALUMA HISTORY.
THEY, UH, PROCLAIMED A PERSON AS A CULTURAL TREASURE OF PETALUMA, AND THAT WAS, UH, MADAM LAURA RYCHAK, WHO HAS BEEN INSTRUMENTAL IN CO-FOUNDING COTS AND HAS BEEN AN ADVOCATE FOR CULTURAL AND COMMUNITY ENHANCEMENTS.
AND SO THAT WAS A REALLY LOVELY CEREMONY, AND I THINK THIS COMMITTEE SHOULD PERHAPS REVIEW, AND WHEN THERE IS A PERCENTAGE OF CULTURAL IMPORTANCE TO THE CITY, WE MAY CONSIDER CONTINUING THAT TYPE OF TRADITION.
IT'S A LOVELY THING FOR THE COUNCIL TO DO, AND I COMMEND
[00:40:01]
THEM FOR IT.THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING THAT UP.
THAT IS A WONDERFUL THING AND A FASCINATING POSSIBILITY FOR US THAT I HAD NOT CONSIDERED UNTIL THAT HAPPENED.
THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THAT.
ANY OTHER COMMITTEE? ANYTHING? ALL RIGHT.
[STAFF COMMENT]
PLANNING MANAGER HANNAH SPENCER, DO YOU HAVE A PLANNING MANAGER'S REPORT FOR US? YES, THANK YOU.JUST ONE ITEM REGARDING THE GENERAL PLAN.
SO ON SEPTEMBER 14TH, 2026, THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPTED THE UPDATED GENERAL PLAN, AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS CURRENTLY IN THE PROCESS OF REVIEWING THE FIRST ROUND OF THE PROPOSED ZONING CODE UPDATES TO ENSURE ALIGNMENT BETWEEN THE ZONING CODE AND THE NEW GENERAL PLAN.
UM, CAN I ACTUALLY REWIND A LITTLE BIT? I REALIZED I HAVE A QUESTION, WHICH IS WHAT CAME UP WITH THE WINDOWS, UM, WHICH I DON'T EXPECT THERE TO BE AN ANSWER FOR IMMEDIATELY, BUT I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS.
THERE IS A PUBLISHED GUIDE FOR THE OAK HILL BREWSTER COMMUNITY THAT WAS BROUGHT UP SEVERAL MEETINGS BACK, STATES THAT HCPC REQUIRES SOLID WOOD WINDOWS.
UM, THE PRECEDENT THAT WE LEARNED ABOUT THAT, UM, ANDREW TRIPLE HAD A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE OF THAT I CANNOT REPEAT, BUT I KNOW HE KNEW IT, UM, WAS THAT AT SOME POINT THERE WAS A SHIFT IN HCP BECAUSE OF WINDOW IMPROVEMENT, CLAD WINDOWS WERE, WERE ALLOWED AT SOME POINT.
AND I WONDER IF THERE IS ANYTHING THAT WE NEED TO DO AS A COMMITTEE TO UPDATE THAT DOCUMENT OR PERHAPS IT IS UPDATED ONLINE, BUT IT'S NOT UPDATED IN THE COMMUNITY.
I THINK WE LOOKED AND IT LOOKED LIKE IT HADN'T BEEN.
FOR THE SAKE OF FUTURE QUESTIONS ABOUT WINDOWS, I FIND THAT THAT DOCUMENT'S VERY HELPFUL.
I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO REFERENCE IT AND KNOW THAT IT REPRESENTS OUR STANCE AND MAYBE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THAT AS A COMMITTEE.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN PUT ON AN AGENDA FOR A FUTURE? YES, I BELIEVE SO.
I, I DON'T HAVE THE BACKGROUND THAT YOU MENTIONED WITH REGARDS TO, UM, MR. TRIPLE'S RESEARCH ON THAT, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK INTO IT AND, AND FOLLOW UP WITH YOU AT THE, UM, VIA CORRESPONDENCE OR AT THE NEXT, UH, REGULAR SCHEDULED MEETING.
AND I CAN, SO I CAN LOOK INTO THE, UM, THE INTERPRETATIONS AND, UM, PRECEDENT SETTING DECISIONS REGARDING THE WINDOW TYPES, UH, AND THEIR CONSISTENCY WITH THE GUIDELINES.
AND THEN WE CAN ALSO LOOK INTO, UM, THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES AND WHAT IT, UH, WHAT MIGHT BE INVOLVED TO UPDATE THOSE GUIDELINES FORMALLY.
FROM, BASED OFF OF MY REVIEW SO FAR, I DON'T BELIEVE THEY HAVE BEEN UPDATED IN, IN A WHILE.
WINDOWS ARE SUCH A BIG PART OF WHAT WE DO.
SOMETIMES I FORGET THAT I HAVE QUESTIONS.
WELL THEN WITH THAT, WE ARE ADJOURNED AT WHAT LOOKS LIKE 5:43 PM.
FOUR? IS IT 4:00? I NEED NEW GLASSES.
THAT'S WHERE YOU GOT ELECTED AGAIN.